http://www.nhc.rtp.nc.us:8080/tserve.../hiroshima.jpg

'Israel has responded defiantly to United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan's condemnation of a security barrier it is building in the West Bank. Israel's Foreign Ministry said Saturday the project is vital to the security of the Jewish state and that it will not be halted by international criticism.

The Israeli Foreign Ministry issued a strongly worded statement saying the separation barrier now under construction in the West Bank is irreplaceable and that building will continue.'

The fence has proved effective in stopping terrorism....

If mexicans were crossing the border to blow themselves in in LA nightclubs, the US would be doing the same thing on the Mexican border.

yeah to hell with the UN and international law!

I say let them build the wall.

we need another Berlin Wall, and something else to celebrate when they tear it down in 20 years.





Last edited by Fletch XXX at Nov 29 2003, 09:07 AM

which international law you are reffering to?

with that in mind, maybe if we were trying to extend the US borders of california lets say another 100 miles deep into mexico, maybe they WOULD be suicide bombing us.

LA doesnt need terrorits, its filled with enough ignorant murder.

which international law you are reffering to?[/b][/quote]
http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectI...AB8AFBB11CC27D8

"The secretary-general's position has always been that the state of Israel has the legitimate right to live in peace and security," he said. "Nevertheless, he points out that this right should not be carried out in a way that is in contradiction to international law, that could damage the longer-term prospects for peace by making the creation of an independent, viable and contiguous Palestinian state more difficult, or increases suffering among the Palestinian people."

The Israeli Foreign Ministry says such criticism amounts to rewarding all who use terror as a means to realize their political aims.'



Last edited by Fletch XXX at Nov 29 2003, 09:14 AM

ahhh..that law....

Serge, it's hard to stay sharp when idiots like this guy are all you have to argue with. Let's start arguing with each other instead. What can we argue about? How about chess?

I say P-K4 is the best opening for white, period.

Serge, it's hard to stay sharp when idiots like this guy are all you have to argue with. Let's start arguing with each other instead. What can we argue about? How about chess?

I say P-K4 is the best opening for white, period.[/b][/quote]
Who is arguing?

hahaha

its hard to even post here without immature people like you storming in and doing what you do best.

namecalling and nothing else to say.

you belong on GFY!

Who is arguing?

hahaha

its hard to even post here without immature people like you storming in and doing what you do best.

namecalling and nothing else to say.

you belong on GFY![/b][/quote]
Buff, he has a point...
I pride Oprano for the LEAST names callings on the net., period.

we are NOT the folks off the internet gutter,
everybody here is an achiever,
let's never forget that.

FletchXXX, I say the wall is very good,
as it protects poor opressed 200,000,000 arabs from overpowering agression of 5 mln Jews...

c'mon, show some compassion to our arab brothers!

I agree about the wall Serge.

I say build it.

I just dont want to see it used as a means to gain land.

As you can guess I am no Zionist

hehehe

but if it will help protect lives, I guess its in a countries interest to do so.

Off topic:

Serge, I found a fully translated version of the Bulgakov you recommended and even started reading it. http://lib.ru/BULGAKOW/master_engl.txt

The title was very familiar, I recalled it from art school.

It reminded me of the famous Hr Giger painting, work #307 (1976) titled, none other than: Meister und Margerita

just a little side note on my research so far.

Due to the holiday havent been reading much, but what I did read I liked so far.



Last edited by Fletch XXX at Nov 29 2003, 09:36 AM

Who is arguing?

hahaha

its hard to even post here without immature people like you storming in and doing what you do best.

namecalling and nothing else to say.

you belong on GFY![/b][/quote]
You are right, and I apologize for being immature. How about I post a picture of a nuclear explosion next to an anti-palestine rant and make appeals to the opinions of bureaucrats in the UN as support for my position. I could cite someone like the Secretary-General, who presides over a host of 3rd world dictatorships and theocracies (some of which don't even have indoor plumbing or the ability to manufacture ice). I could make appeals to the pronouncements and edicts of the Security Council which has as its members the "secure" states of Cameroon, Angola, Bulgaria, and (try not to laugh too hard) Syria.

Or, I could simply label you an idiot who is either playing devil's advocate because he's afraid to shut off the computer and go outside, or is hopelessly uneducated and misinformed.

Apologies,

Buff



Last edited by Buff at Nov 29 2003, 11:39 AM

Is this going to be a portable wall?

Is this going to be a portable wall?[/b][/quote]
According to Israel, yes.

'Israel denies these claims, saying the barrier is meant only for security and can be taken down later, if and when a final peace treaty is reached with the Palestinians.'

To quoute the Vick

You have already labeled me an idiot, and thats why this conversation can serve no real purpose any longer.

If youd let that guard down we might be able to have an intelligent conversation, but I am going to assume youd much rather just call me an idiot and go about your day, since that was your first reaction to my thread.

If you dont like the thread, dont post in it.





Last edited by Fletch XXX at Nov 29 2003, 09:48 AM

I don't...I fully agree with Fletch, try to piss with somebody who totally agrees with you
;-)))

who cares?

both sides saying always:
"we only kill them because..."

who gives a fuck? the faster they escalate to all out war, the better off humanity in general will be.



Last edited by JR at Nov 29 2003, 09:58 AM

that's the ONE!
I don't know how good translation is, it's VERY HARD to translate Bulgakov, but LMK what you think of it

that's the ONE!
I don't know how good translation is, it's VERY HARD to translate Bulgakov, but LMK what you think of it[/b][/quote]
I tend to read more during the week, as I replace my intoxicants with literature now!

If I can get some time over the next day or so to read mroe I will, its going to be a very busy weekend, lots of stuff to do.

But no doubt, I will read it, and we can make a thread about it!

Good neighbors always have fences or walls.

I tend to read more during the week, as I replace my intoxicants with literature now!

If I can get some time over the next day or so to read mroe I will, its going to be a very busy weekend, lots of stuff to do.

But no doubt, I will read it, and we can make a thread about it![/b][/quote]
I am game! much more soul pleasing read than 1/2 of this and 99% of other baords
;_))

struth, good fences make for good neighbors.



.... except for Canada & the US. Largest stretch of undefended border in the world. Certain other countries could learn a lot from that.

do you think Canada and its citizens would get upset in any way if we wanted to put a big wall divinding the two?

Well sure, but when's the last time a Canadian citizen crossed the border and blew up a sidewalk cafe in Chicago?


It's been like, ages.

I wasn't even trying to say they would, could, or have.

Was just curious if you think it would offend your people.

I think it would offend most neighboring countries.

it definitely sends a clear message anyhow.

I pointed that out for the value of the relationship that can happen between two or more countries when the peoples and the governments are willing to forget past wars and disputes, and forge a way to live side by side in peach and cooperation.


Think of the commerce that could go on between Israel and it's hostile neighbors, if only they would take a page from our book. We've got history, remember the war of 1812? We all seem to have gotten over it.

Did I say peach? Peace is peachy.

Remember it? I carry the blood of folks who died in it. That as well as the battle Of Chalmette a couple years later.

And I agree with you.

There will NEVER be any peace between any of them.

They hate each other, and always will.

I got a jew friend who gets drunk and talks shit about Palestinians like an old redneck would a black guy.

Their ignorance is as hilarious as the fundamentals of zionism.

Is this going to be a portable wall?[/b][/quote]
Hey CDSmith you stole my logo/icon that I stole!!!!

You are forgetting that Islam will not permit Jews and Isreal to exist in the region side by side. Isreal exists today because of its own military might and the support of the United States. Without either, every man, woman and child would have been slaughtered long ago.

You dont have deep rooted ethnic and religious hatred between the US and Canada where the very force binding Canadian society is the idea that all Americans must die and Canada is involved in a "holy war" were "victory" and gaining entry to "paradise" means giving your life trying to kill Americans until all Americans are killed and/or expelled from America.

There are no parallels between historic differences concerning US/Canada and "getting along" that apply as useful analogies to the Middle East and Isreal.

I'm with Mike on this one.

And I think it's a pretty fuckin' sad state of affairs when the jews (or anyone) have to build a wall to protect themselves from all of the assholes of the world.
They do have to protect themselves because history has shown noone else will do it for them!!!

They know only to well that history repeats itself!!!!

Just think of how fast the united states would waste Canada or Mexico if they were as hostile to US as the people in the middle east are to the jews. (no offense Canada and Mexico in this post anyways)

Also, without going into too much detail and anthropological/sociological history, i believe that it also goes against the very nature of man for any people to be satisfied to live as Palestinians do and the issue extends far beyond religion. In addition to the complications brought on by an intollerant religion, they will also refuse as a people to always be so far down the rungs of the social order... To always be brushed aside, disrespected and having the terms of thier existence dictated to them by an outside force or forces. Its not something any American would accept... yet any American would suggest that they should accept it. Its not really a question of "getting along". Its a question of stifling and suppressing those human qualities in all of us, namely ego and pride, that crave respect and that drive us to excel, exceed and achieve.

Palestinians, if consistent with history, will never accept a peace that does not secure them a decent amount of respect from neighboring countries and that does not move them up the ladder of the social pecking order. Power respects power. Arafat is an icon because he took Palestinians briefly down that path when he interrupted a UN meeting and gave a speach where after, the palestinian authority was granted "obsever status" at the UN and recognition on the world wide political stage.

I dont hate people. I am not racist. I just believe in this case that both states cannot and will not exist peacefully, side by side. History has proven this to be true and to date, neither side has exhibited any intention of doing so. I believe that Isreal can only survive through force and military might and believe that once you remove that from the equation, Isreal will cease to exist.

It does not bother me that there is a fence. Its an obvious thing for Isrealis to do everything to protect their own existence and give themselves every advantage. Not doing so, would empower its enemies. Of course it will cause tension. So do suicide bombings. So does living next to people whos very religion - that single strongest bonding force in their society and their own reason for living tells them that you must be destroyed.

Palestinians should be greatful that they are just building a fence. I would argue that it would be more humane than destroying them which seems to be the next best alternative. Life is not fair. It never was. Survival of the fittest has been the purveiling rule of human existence as well as with every other living organism on the planet for billions of years. Its not gonna change anytime soon.

http://www.merip.org/palestine-israel_prim...zen-pal-is.html

'Jewish claims to this land are based on the biblical promise to Abraham and his descendants, on the fact that this was the historical site of the Jewish kingdom of Israel (which was destroyed by the Roman Empire), and on Jews' need for a haven from European anti-Semitism. Palestinian Arabs' claims to the land are based on continuous residence in the country for hundreds of years and the fact that they represented the demographic majority. They reject the notion that a biblical-era kingdom constitutes the basis for a valid modern claim. If Arabs engage the biblical argument at all, they maintain that since Abraham's son Ishmael is the forefather of the Arabs, then God's promise of the land to the children of Abraham includes Arabs as well. They do not believe that they should forfeit their land to compensate Jews for Europe's crimes against them.'

http://www.merip.org/palestine-israel_prim...isr-primer.html



Last edited by Fletch XXX at Nov 29 2003, 03:32 PM

You said a mouthful here except destroying your enemies is usually not the next best thing, it's usually the first best thing. To do otherwise is something new to the species!!!!

Let's not forget, NOT ALL JEWS are Zionists.

In fact, many are AGAINST Zionism.

http://www.merip.org/palestine-israe..._jews_demo.jpg

to quote: 'ZIONISTS DO NOT REPRESENT JEWS.'

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/