New Illinois Law says so. What do YOU think?

SPRINGFIELD, Illinois (AP) -- A new rape law in Illinois attempts to clarify the issue of consent by emphasizing that people can change their mind while having sex.

Under the law, if someone says "no" at any time the other person must stop or it becomes rape. The National Crime Victim Law Institute said it believed the law is the first of its kind in the country.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/07/30/rape.law/index.html

Damn that must be hard to prove....

She yelled "NO, NO, NOOO!!" ??

I thought she yelled "Oh, Oh, OOOHH!!"

;-))

Yes.

Yes.[/b][/quote]
Agreed.

Who here hasn't been with a girl who has had 2nd thoughts after you start to have sex?

She says yesy, yes, yes before.. you get into.. 3 swift pumps and she has 2nd thoughts. You pull out, tell her it's OK and get on with life. Doing anything else is fucking stupid.

3 swift pumps and you are probably done anyway. :nyanya:

Agreed.[/b][/quote]
no.

thats surprising. you worry about homeland security and big mean John Ashcroft coming to suck your brain and you dont worry that ANY woman can put you in prison for 20 years "just because" she may have been upset at you.

the problem i see is not the idea of consent or no consent. i think any normal person agrees that forced, or non-consensual sex is rape. the problem i see is that usually in a rape case, it is proveable. there is forensic evidence to support the fact that forced sex and a struggle have taken place. now we are talking about "consensual sex" where those things dont have to be present to prove "rape".

what is the burden of proof? "she said no after taking it in the ass, while scratching my back and the rest of my body all to hell for the last 45 minutes while telling me she could not get enough"

what about entrapment? how easy would that be? how do you prove a crime of this nature DIDN'T occure? how do you prove she didn't say no? you cant do it.

this looks to me like a situation ripe for abuse more than protecting the rights of innocent people.

what JR said

I get no all the time, then keep going. I read women like that. What woman does not want a man to take control.

Brad has a point, lot's of chicks say no while they're being seduced. Not because they don't want to fuck but because they don't want to look like a slut.

It's not a politically correct thing to say but a lot of times no does not necessarily mean no.

I love honesty.........

:okthumb:

Actually if a woman says no to a man during actual intercourse his penis should go limp from embarrassment

If no is being said during, then something obviously isn't right with the situation

As for as Kobe, I bet he is innocent. The little slut just could not handle his big wanker.

Agreed.

i have a pair of bose noise cancelling headphones. they selectively block ambient noise, "no", and any sentence beginning with "honey can you". they're great.

i mean how do deaf people handle this? all that fondling, she's saying no, and you thought she was just rubbing her tits and begging for more.

:bjump:

Agreed.[/b][/quote]
Agreed.

no.

thats surprising. you worry about homeland security and big mean John Ashcroft coming to suck your brain and you dont worry that ANY woman can put you in prison for 20 years "just because" she may have been upset at you.

the problem i see is not the idea of consent or no consent. i think any normal person agrees that forced, or non-consensual sex is rape. the problem i see is that usually in a rape case, it is proveable. there is forensic evidence to support the fact that forced sex and a struggle have taken place. now we are talking about "consensual sex" where those things dont have to be present to prove "rape".

what is the burden of proof? "she said no after taking it in the ass, while scratching my back and the rest of my body all to hell for the last 45 minutes while telling me she could not get enough"

what about entrapment? how easy would that be? how do you prove a crime of this nature DIDN'T occure? how do you prove she didn't say no? you cant do it.

this looks to me like a situation ripe for abuse more than protecting the rights of innocent people.[/b][/quote]
The scenario you give here already happens. This is no different than the way it is now....

The scenario you give here already happens. This is no different than the way it is now....[/b][/quote]
how can you say its not different? for someone to prove there was rape, they have to prove that they were raped. there is forensic evidence, the woman is examined, there is other evidence, there is testimony and witnesses etc.

we are not talking about that at all right now. we are talking about two people fucking and someone claiming after the fact that they said "no" at some point during intercourse - if all other evidence exists to show there was non consensual sex, then its rape no matter what right? then why the new law?

but they are not saying that. the law as i understand it simply requires someon to "say" they did not consent WHILE in the middle of consensual sex. thats hardly the same as being ambushed in the park at 1:00 am and ending up in the hospital for three weeks.

this law is redefining what rape is. why is that necessary?




Last edited by JR at Jul 30 2003, 11:06 AM

Sounds like restating the obvious.

The reason I say that is because very few 'rapes' are the 1am, walking through the park type rapes....most are casual 'friends' and acquaintances who spend the evening on a date and end up in bed....

Whether she said no from the very start or once things got hot is no matter.

The 'park' type rapes are very much what you describe ie: forensics, physical proof etc....

However, in most of date rape cases (the most common form of rape), there is a huge gray area because there isn't always clear physical proof......this is more common than not....

I heared rumor she did anal.....

It is.

But just like any other, it's yet one more thing for people to abuse for their own personal bullshit.

2 people fuck consentually. They go on with their lives, party "A" doesn't call and party "B" gets stupid.. The cycle begins and before you know it party "B" is in a court of law crying about saying no the entire time just to show their "power" in the exchange.

Yeah it's sick and wrong, but this kind of thing happens all the time with varying degrees of severity.

(edit)shouldn't use fingers after nap time(/edit)



Last edited by Menace at Jul 30 2003, 03:20 PM

The current rules already give an insane amount of power to women over men that gets abused daily. It's a fact that more than 70% of all date rape victims end up sleeping with the man who they claimed raped them by free will! Women get emotional for one reason or another and send you to the pokey then regret it later.

I think you need to be careful about how you refer to that situation. The law does not say anything about "once things get hot"... we're not talking about when you end up naked and then go.."gosh i better get going"... we're talking about a woman knowingly and purposely going upstairs at 1am, knowingly and purposefully having sex with a man, and then during the actual act of intercourse changing her mind.

Not sure how i feel about this, I dont know that it should be called "rape" because rape indicates forced non-concensual sex while the above situation was never forced or non-consensual.

No means No!

:unsure:

If she agrees at first, and then backs down, that is her perogative.

I have a hard time swallowing the idea that once she agrees it is carved in stone and that she is bound to complete the activity...even if it turns sour for her.

I don't believe the current laws state that once she agrees, she must follow through with it. I also don't believe there is any set time limit on how long she has to pull out of the arrangement.

Like Mike says.....no is no.....no matter when it is said.

This new proposal only clarifies that as soon as 'no' is said, the activity is forfeit.

There have been, and always will be women who use the system for revenge or what have you. I hate these women because it makes it so much harder for the legitimate cases to be won. These women are also the ones that create indecisiveness in legitimate rape victims who are afraid to prosecute for fear of being labelled a liar.

It became forced and non-consensual the minute she changed her mind and voiced her desire.

So, a guy and some hot chick start getting it on...the are butt ass naked and heavy into the petting. She stops and says no. He continues and finishes the job anyway despite her insistance to stop.

If you wouldn't call it rape.....what would you call it then?



Last edited by gigi at Jul 30 2003, 04:19 PM

A guy in need of a hearing aid.

have you got somewhere that backs up that 70% number or are you just an angry man who doesn't like the fact that women have rights at all?

this particular situation is a controversial gray area - so what would suggest should be done instead? the woman should just go home and smack herself on the wrist for being too trusting!?



Hooper, there are plenty of reasons why the parties should be able to change their minds DURING AN ACT OF CONSENSUAL SEX. I agree it opens up a lot of opportunity for fraudulent claims on the women's behalf but think about yourself when you reach that point of 'damn i want to be inside this chick'. Ever had a moment of total lost control where right and wrong didn't matter?

What if a woman asks you to stop when ...
1) it hurts - woman says stop that hurts, can we move a bit. guy is too busy pounding and ignores request and she is in pain.
2) if he refuses to put on a condom, or if it comes off during sex
3) if both parties have agreed to try something new such as anal sex and it becomes painful

stupid thing about rules like this is that genuine cases where men have been total cunts can't be proved because there is a first level of consent. this law might make some guys think twice before they keep pumping.

It's impossible to win in arguments like this with women because they refuse to beileve there are other, much less moral, women who do very stupid and evil things. I have seen guys hauled off to jail for tons of stuff that women 'said' they did that they actually didn't do. I have been a witness in court for two cases like this.

One was a 'He raped me, he's an animal blah blah blah" yet I was there that night fucking the other freind and they fixed us pancakes after sex. The other case was a 'he hit me' affair. I was in the home in another room and heard the whole thing. She started saying "this is the last time you are going to get away with cheating on me, I'm gonna call the police" She then made up a story and of course even with me coming out of the back room and telling what I heard we still had to bail him out because the police Still took him away.

Those are the dangers of being a successful man. Women do what they can to get you.

So CJ, it's nothing personal but your fellow women are fucked in the head. The laws are lopsided. If I weren't around to testify both of my friends would have been serving some kind of jail term thanks to the current rules. :angry:

Ermm....just to reiterate:

There have been, and always will be women who use the system for revenge or what have you. I hate these women because it makes it so much harder for the legitimate cases to be won. These women are also the ones that create indecisiveness in legitimate rape victims who are afraid to prosecute for fear of being labelled a liar.



Last edited by gigi at Jul 30 2003, 05:20 PM

I have been told to "stop" while having sex with a girl before. (Ego buster for sure!!!)
It seems she had a boyfriend and got second thoughts after she got hers. (True)

I stopped what I was doing in mid plunge and got the hell up. (Didn't get mine)
I couldn't even think to continue the sex and all I could do was tell her it was OK. (She felt bad about leaving me high and not-dry)

That said the law should include precise language to be used by the girl if she changes her mind in mid stroke.

I mean if a girl says "get off you fucking piece of shit" it could be taken the wrong way, with a Dominatrix for instance!!! :wnw:

Umm....there are a lot more men that are "fucked in the head" that RAPE women then there are women who file false rape reports. :ph34r:

And many of the real rapes also go unreported.

I know the guys probably won't read this :awinky: BUT, if you want to read a harrowing true story about rape and what a female has to go through in order to complete a prosecution, read Lucky by Alice Sebold.

I agree... for a certain income level. The reason we are discussing this is Kobe. I will venture to say about 90% of the rape cases involving rich or famous men are false.

What would you say?

I honestly don't know. That would be an interesting statistic to look up!

That's the point Peaches. We can't look up that statistic because in most cases the man is pronounced guilty based on the womans word.

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAA
sob sob
poor successful men ;-( :cryin: :cryin: :-( :cryin: :cryin: :cryin:
they have to deal with so much! big bad women always trying to ruin their lives. :cryin: :cryin: :cryin: *rolling eyes* PUH-LEASE!!!!

Pornwolf, have you ever considered that you & your friends are chosing the wrong kind of women?

And did you know that 'suck it bitch' isn't actually foreplay?

You can take a black and white stand on this purely because you have been in a situation twice where this has happened.

What's the bet that the situations where women don't report a geniune rape outweigh 'girl cried wolf' cases by 100 to 1? The amount of women i've spoken to through my site who have been sexually assaulted, molestered or raped and never even considered reporting it is scary as hell.

Stories like yours are what make it impossible for women who have truly been through a traumatic experience to seek justice - or even piece of mind. The moment a woman says she was raped or sexually assaulted the reaction from people is 'faker' - thanks to stupid little attention seeking bitches who want to get revenge over a broken heart or whatever.

So go ahead and tell me more about my species and what I refuse to believe about our faults ... then we can start on what's wrong with men :biglaugh:

Touche. I think any woman that is raped should be mad enough to try to murder the guy. Don't tell me it's not possible because when you all get mad ANYTHING is possible.

What is stopping your surfers from doing that at least?

Every two minutes, somewhere in America, someone is sexually assaulted.

Surely you will agree that the rich man, lying bitch cases represent a VERY minor percentage of these assaults?

In 2001, there were 249,000 victims of rape, attempted rape or sexual assault. [2000 National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS)]

Of these 249,000, 102,000 were victims of sexual assault, 63,000 were victims of attempted rape, and 84,000 were victims of completed rape. [2000 NCVS.]

Because of the methodology of the National Crime Victimization Survey, these figures do not include victims 12 or younger. While there are no reliable annual surveys of sexual assaults on children, the Justice Department has estimated that one of six victims are under age 12. [Child Rape Victims, 1992]

Approximately 66% of rape victims know their assailant. [2000 NCVS.]

Approximately 48% of victims are raped by a friend or acquaintance; 30% by a stranger; 16% by an intimate; 2% by another relative; and in 4% of cases the relationship is unknown. [2000 NCVS.]

About four out of ten sexual assaults take place at the victim’s own home. Two in ten take place in the home of a friend, neighbor or relative. One in ten take place outside, away from home. And about one in 12 take place in a parking garage. [Statistics from: Sex Offenses and Offenders. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Department of Justice, February 1997]

61% of rapes/sexual assaults are not reported to the police. Those rapists, of course, never serve a day in prison. [1999 NCVS]

If the rape is reported to police, there is a 50.8% chance that an arrest will be made.

If an arrest is made, there is an 80% chance of prosecution.

If there is a prosecution, there is a 58% chance of a felony conviction.

If there is a felony conviction, there is a 69% chance the convict will spend time in jail.

So, even in the 39% of attacks that are reported to police, there is only a 16.3% chance the rapist will end up in prison.

Factoring in unreported rapes, about 6% of rapists—1 out of 16— will ever spend a day in jail. 15 out of 16 will walk free.

[Probability statistics compiled by NCPA from US Department of Justice statistics. See www.ncpa.org/studies/s229/s229.html]

For more stats see: http://www.rainn.org/statisticsarc.html

Yes, I agree its possible for a woman who is raped to get angry and kill or hurt her attacker.

What's to stop my surfers from doing that?
nothing probably - except that law thing we have to abide by probably makes it happen less often than it could

but what does that have to do with the price of eggs in china on a hot day in october?

Hmm, let's see:

Get life in prison for killing my attacker....

or....

Attempt to heal myself and get on with life....

Hmmm.....hard decision....