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Re: Extremely Important Obsenity Case MUST READ !!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanLanane

While nazi stuff is very offensive to me it doesnt make me jump out of my skin like I did about the child porn issue - however I am very sure that it is just as, if not much more offensive to a huge portion of this world and America. Many Americans would jump out at that the way I did Child Porn ...

Nazi stuf makes my skin crawl just as much as cp. And as much as I would love to see them all strung up, the bottom line is what they can do to one, they can do to all, so I'm not willing to give up my freedom of speech to stiffle any group.

Re: Extremely Important Obsenity Case MUST READ !!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

they do make the laws right? everyone does. laws are the product of elected officials representing the will of their consituents. laws can be amended and rescinded anytime.

i love this conversation because it highlights exactly what you just said and what has already been before the supreme court.... protecting speech means protecting a lot of things you might find vulgar or offensive. its just not a black and white issue. it can't be. in fact, there often seems to be more gray than anything and that is really what the discussion is about.

people are arguing about what is appropriate, innapropriate and so on... and forgetting the basic point either you draw a line somewhere in determining what speech is protected... or you have no line at all. and you have to ask yourself what is a better world... a world where ones right to express themself is absolutely protected or a world where someone is deciding for you, what is appropriate, what is innapropriate, what is offensive, what is acceptable, what is unnaceptable and so on. and once you accept that, you will have to accept that those boundaries might move in ways you never considered they might.

do i think that writing about a person fingering a 6 month old infant objectionable? of course i do. should he be able to write about it? yes, i think so.

I was going to edit what I quoted so this wouldn't be such a huge post...but I decided not to leave out a word.

To protect all of us, there must be no "line." To protect our own rights, we must also protect the rights of people who want to make us vomit.

I referenced earlier the ACLU fighting for the rights of Nazis to march in Skokie, Illinois...which happens to be the home of a great many Holocaust survivors. This was sickening. However, one of our basic rights is "freedom of assembly." All laws were followed by the Nazis with regard to getting permits, etc. People filed suit to stop it. I imagine the ACLU folks were nauseated beyond belief, but when you set yourself up to defend civil liberties...you have to defend *everyone's* civil liberties, not just the "nice people's" civil liberties.

A very long time ago I nearly hit a telephone pole in Louisville, Kentucky. Attached to said pole was the flyer that marked it as the route of the KKK march that coming Saturday. (School integration had just hit town.) They marched, and my neighbor - an amateur photographer - took pictures. He showed them to me. They were in black and white, just like the pics I saw in books from the 50's...but this was the 70's.

They have the same right to feedom of assembly as the Mayor of Louisville had when he organized his "anti-hate" rally. The Mayor's rally got a much bigger turnout than the KKK march.

The black and white part of this is that either we *all* have rights...or *nobody* has rights.

Re: Extremely Important Obsenity Case MUST READ !!!

Christianity. Had that disease once, but I recovered. :)

Re: Extremely Important Obsenity Case MUST READ !!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raven

If paedophiles write their stories on paper, they are still just stories, no matter how disgusting I think they are. They are words.

While I agree with you, that is for better or worse not the way the legal precedents have it.
I believe it was 4 or 5 years ago a pedo (in Illinois?) that had been convicted, served his time and been released was brought up on new charges, and again convicted and sentenced, for possessing mere fantasy writings. He was in out-patient therapy/councelling but still had paedophilic urges - so as a method of self-therapy to help relieve the stress/whatever he kept a journal/diary of the fantasies he had. He had not shared his musings with anyone much less published them, but in a shakedown of sorts the writings were found and he went right back up the river.

Re: Extremely Important Obsenity Case MUST READ !!!

Thanks for the posts Morgan, I have had people mention other religions and I believe Methodist was one of those - they have had quite a few ads on T.V. around here lately and actually have a church a block's walk from my house. Might be something worth looking into !

Matt Hail used to live in the house directly behind my house when I was growing up in Creve Coeur, IL - we all knew he was an eccentric Nazi but never expected him to do the things in his life he did. Sad really. It doesnt suprise me he came from Creve Coeur though, pretty much a trailer park town - good thing we moved out when I was 11 or else I would probably be doing 20 in Joliet right now.

Re: Extremely Important Obsenity Case MUST READ !!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanLanane

Come on now Sykk lol ... Stretching what I said just a 'tad' aren't we? ;)

How? Who's morals and boundaries of what should and shouldn't be written about should we use? Yours? Pat Robertson's? Who's? How is your free speech any more important than that of someone who's speech you don't agree with or are offended by?

Re: Extremely Important Obsenity Case MUST READ !!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MorganGrayson

Ryan...when I was baptized, the couple in front of my parents got tossed out by the priest because they wanted to name the infant "Cynthia." (Not a saint's name, and therefore not on the "approved list," for those of you who just went "Huh????")

Yes, the Catholic Church will punish the infant because of what they view as "the sins of the mother." Interesting religion, isn't it?

I know what you're fighting against...and putting this as gently as possible, it's called "brainwashing." If you're raised Catholic, you are brainwashed with a severity that puts the Nazis and Communists to absolute shame. To this DAY, I can't "first name" "The Blessed Virgin." That causes some lumpy conversations with both Protestants and other pagans. I get blank looks, then explain "I was raised Catholic," and everyone - no matter what their religion - goes "Ahhh...I get it."

The baptism thing made me physically ill for a long time. I, too, had the painful, gut urge to have my children baptized, because they had sufficiently terrorized me into believing "something bad" would happen if I didn't. One of my children was baptized in the Catholic church for one reason only: it made her great-grandmother so damned happy. When we went to talk to the priest beforehand, my husband kept a death grip on my wrist to prevent me from lunging across the desk at the pompous asshole.

I feel for you so much, Ryan. Right now, you're trying to shove a square peg (you) into a round hole (the Church) and it's going to be painful.

Personal theology is something you work on your whole life. In a way, it's like ordering from the menu at a Chinese restaurant. "One from column A, two from colum B...let's skip over the shit in colum C, it sucks...and an eggroll."

In Wiccas, infants have a "wiccaning," but you can't dedicate yourself to the Goddess until you're an adult. A wiccaning is more of a family celebration of the new life and a promise to give it their absolutely best shot in raising said child.

No fear, no threats of eternal damnation, just love. The Goddess loves you because you exist. All you had to do to earn the love of the Goddess was show up. If you "sin," well, the sun will come up tomorrow and you take another shot at life. (That's the short version. The only sin we have, really, is hurting another person or youself on purpose.)

It isn't as easy as it sounds. Being nice and being careful with people and the planet all the time is a real bitch when you put it in practice 24/7.

And for those who might be wondering, I'm not proselitizing. I'm just talking. I know the pain Ryan is going through because I went through it myself.

The Methodists have rocking cool commercials on television here. They might be worth a shot. They do baptisms, too.

ahahahahhahahahahahahhahaha

For the love of fuck ahahahahhahahahahhahahahaha

Everytime I think to myself you can't get any crazier , you go and surprise me

:okthumb:

LOL

Re: Extremely Important Obsenity Case MUST READ !!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SykkBoy

Sykk you insinuated I felt 'every erotic story written from now on only be about two people having sex out of love for each other and to procreate and make a baby'

I never said anything on my thoughts about what should or shouldn't be 'legal' to be written about aside from my statement as to how I felt regarding literary child porn.. I still feel it is seriously fucked up - and ALWAYS WILL!

That being said, I can see everyone's elses stance as well now..

Have you ever been pissed off cause someone hit on your wife or girlfriend with you sitting at the bar? Knee Jerk reaction, saw something that pissed me off and posted my thoughts as to that particular subject, never elaborated to the point of making anyone feel I was a prude. Atleast I hope not...

Re: Extremely Important Obsenity Case MUST READ !!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanLanane

nah, I didn't mean it that way, it's just when you start giving in on this sort of thing, it has a way of snowballing.

It's not that literary child porn doesn't offend me. As the father of 2 daughter and 2 sons, it does, but that doesn't mean it should be any less protected than me writing a fictional story about a couple hooking up for a quickie at work....

Besides, if trash like that is protected, then it shows how well protected other subjects are (and should be). Like I said, it's not always easy being a champion of free speech, especially when it's speech I don't agree with or I find distasteful.

Re: Extremely Important Obsenity Case MUST READ !!!

It's the same as when the staunch, conservative, "gray lady" herself, The New York Times joined amicus curiae (friend of the court) on the side of Larry Flynt versus the government. Talk about the two extremes of the publishing world! They did so because of precedent. Same applies here.

Re: Extremely Important Obsenity Case MUST READ !!!

Anytime you get into the freedom of speech issues you end up with very strange bedfellows :okthumb:

Re: Extremely Important Obsenity Case MUST READ !!!

Freedom of speech carries with it a responsibility. To fight to protect all speech, even that which makes you sick. Unpopular speech, like the stories supposedly on this website that got busted, are exactly the type of speech that our laws were written to protect.

You have your line of what is acceptable, I have mine. The very moment either of us tries to impose our line on anyone else we are beginning the process of losing freedom of speech. Same goes if we allow anyone else to impose their line.

We either have freedom to speak, think and write whatever we please, or we do not. There is no middle ground.

Re: Extremely Important Obsenity Case MUST READ !!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

ahahahahhahahahahahahhahaha

For the love of fuck ahahahahhahahahahhahahahaha

Everytime I think to myself you can't get any crazier , you go and surprise me

:okthumb:

LOL

Well, at least I'm not boring. There are few greater crimes than being boring. :)

Re: Extremely Important Obsenity Case MUST READ !!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyk

Don't go far, Dravyk. :)

High "5" for the Latin. :)

Re: Extremely Important Obsenity Case MUST READ !!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MorganGrayson

Well, at least I'm not boring. There are few greater crimes than being boring. :)

Agreed :)