Epass shit - fan interaction

[RawAlex]

From: Christopher Mallick, Owner, ePassporte.com <http://ePassporte.com>



Dear ePassporte Account Holders,

Please be advised that, at 12:00 PM PDT today, September 2, 2010, we were notified that effective immediately, Visa International has suspended our banking partner’s (St. Kitts Nevis Anguilla National Bank) ePassporte Visa program. The ePassporte e-Wallet program continues to be up and running, except funds cannot be transferred between your Visa Account and your e-Wallet. At this time ePassporte can no longer issue Visa Cards, and the ability for our Account Holders to make point of sale purchases and withdraw funds from ATMs has also been suspended.

At this time we do not know why this drastic action was taken by Visa. To us, it is unconscionable that such action would be taken without the opportunity for ePassporte to fully understand Visa’s reasons and to be able to take all steps necessary to keep our program running the way it has so successfully done for over 7 years. But that is what Visa has done.

As soon as we have more information we will be in contact with you.

In the meantime please be assured that your funds are safe.

We are very sorry for the short notice and apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. The ePassporte team is working diligently to rectify this situation.

We kindly ask you to bear with us while we work through this issue.

Please feel free to contact us via the message center or at our call center, should you have any questions, comments or concerns.

Thank You,


Christopher Mallick


So if you have money sitting in there, well... g'nite

[DannyCox]

So Mr. "Middle Men", the originator and inventor of all things Adult Internet, has officially screwed the pooch...

...good thing I never bothered with them.

[EmporerEJ]

Visa strikes again.....
'cause, you know, they don't want to make money.

[RawAlex]

So Mr. "Middle Men", the originator and inventor of all things Adult Internet, has officially screwed the pooch...

...good thing I never bothered with them.

When you spend more than 20 million to make a movie that takes in about $750,000 at the box office, something has to give!

[EmporerEJ]

When you spend more than 20 million to make a movie that takes in about $750,000 at the box office, something has to give!

So, THAT's what they spent the money on? Damn Catering services.....

[Greg B]

When you spend more than 20 million to make a movie that takes in about $750,000 at the box office, something has to give!

LOL! I did mention to them that Epass would send out notifications about that movie but neglected to send out notifications regarding this VISA problem.

I called them and they told me at 6pm my time that it was a technical problem that would be resolved in 24 hours. So we'll see what gives in the next 9 hours.

[alexaseven]

can someone please explain what happened to me. i model on myfreecams, and use epass for payment. ive never had a big problem with them, but i will tell you calling them irritates me beyond belief because you cannot understand then, nor can they understand you. i called them earlier and it doesn't seem to be a big deal that i can access my money. which i think if it happened to any of you guys before a holiday weekend, that i have a vacation planned... it would be a big deal. it seems kinda fishy that it happened right after the first of the month... which is the end of a payperiod for us.

[DannyCox]

Well, if your money is in your "Visa Wallet" or whatever they call that thing, you may be waiting a while. It appears that Visa has frozen the funds, and when they do that, it can last for up to 6 months.

Mallick just had to stroke his own ego with that movie and the Press he did for it. In some interviews, he talked about Visa as if they were a joke and how easy it was to defraud them (in terms of bypassing and sidestepping their TOS)! He really said all the wrong things, and it appears Visa has now reacted with a "Fuck You". Just my very simplistic view as an outsider looking in.

But, he's the smartest guy out there, and as he invented the Adult Internet, I'm sure he'll invent something else ;)

[alexaseven]

sad thing is that its in my wallet... i was always told to remove my funds as soon as i got paid, but since they have such crazy withdrawl restrictions i can only 2 500 a day... and since i was paid on the first. i worked in banking before i did this so i do have knowledge for that aspect. i have never known visa to do such a thing, so it had to be something major. i wont wait 6 months for my money and think that for him to do such a thing would look poorly on him from a businees standpoint, and do think many merchants would want to do business with him any longer.

[EmporerEJ]

sad thing is that its in my wallet... i was always told to remove my funds as soon as i got paid, but since they have such crazy withdrawl restrictions i can only 2 500 a day... and since i was paid on the first. i worked in banking before i did this so i do have knowledge for that aspect. i have never known visa to do such a thing, so it had to be something major. i wont wait 6 months for my money and think that for him to do such a thing would look poorly on him from a businees standpoint, and do think many merchants would want to do business with him any longer.

I don't mean to sound Flip, but welcome to the adult industry.

[rycpitbull]

I knew something wasn't right on Wednesday when they made it impossible to withdraw more than $1K. They knew was coming. Write it off.

[EmporerEJ]

I knew something wasn't right on Wednesday when they made it impossible to withdraw more than $1K. They knew was coming. Write it off.

Yes, I find it hard to believe there was "no" warning.

[alexaseven]

looks like i need to take my fans and go into business for myself, and cut out the middle man.

[alexaseven]

also the only notification was on the site... no email notification... odd.

[gonzo]

The Karma train makes yet another stop!

[RawAlex]

One interesting thing to consider. A number of people have mentioned to me that the timing was "odd". Sept 2nd... why that?

Well, consider that on Sept 1st, the bank was closed because Hurricane Earl was wandering by the island. So it might be something that was suppose to happen on the 1st, but because nobody was there to actually pull the plug, well, it made it to the next business day. Oh yeah, noon PST is, what, 3PM local time? End of business day? Hmmm.

Carry on.

[alexaseven]

i am so with you raw, after researching epass. there is soooo much out there on the net with people being ripped off... i think its such a coincidence of the date and timing. i have never known visa to suspend accounts like that.

[Greg B]

It's an interesting story to follow considering the bank in question is used by the U.S. Government for such matters as Social Security payments and such.

Epass and Michael their rep are sounding confident the issue will be resolved soon and yesterday at 6-7pm Pacific they said it would be handled in 24 hours. So we have another 6-7 hours to see what happens next.

In the meantime, now's the time for other ecommerce companies to come forward with their alternate options. Is Epass the only game in town? Are there other companies that offer what Epass does but better?

It's always wise to have a backup plan.

[Toby]

...would be handled in 24 hours.
You can't really be that fucking literal. :rolleyes:

That's support desk speak for "maybe sometime in the next day or so."

[tony404]

It's an interesting story to follow considering the bank in question is used by the U.S. Government for such matters as Social Security payments and such.

Epass and Michael their rep are sounding confident the issue will be resolved soon and yesterday at 6-7pm Pacific they said it would be handled in 24 hours. So we have another 6-7 hours to see what happens next.

In the meantime, now's the time for other ecommerce companies to come forward with their alternate options. Is Epass the only game in town? Are there other companies that offer what Epass does but better?

It's always wise to have a backup plan.

Why would us gov use a bank in st kitts for ss?

[Cleo]

I'm sure going to miss getting unreported income.

[Greg B]

http://business.avn.com/articles/ePassporte-Visa-Situation-Should-be-Resolved-Next-Week-410832.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[EmporerEJ]

Oh yea....

Dear HustlerCash Affiliate:

Due to uncertainties created by recent statements from ePassporte (http://www.xbiz.com/news/124842), we feel it is in the best interests of our affiliates to suspend with immediate effect all payments via ePassporte. This suspension will remain in effect until further notice.

Affiliates whose current payouts are impacted by these events may request their current payouts be paid by check, paid by wire transfer, or held until further notice.

We encourage all affiliates who currently have ePassporte selected as their desired payment method, to log in to their HustlerCash account and select an alternate payment method (check or wire transfer) for future payouts.

If you have any questions or need assistance changing your payment method, please don't hesitate to contact me.

[RawAlex]

Regardless of what all else happens, Epass is now suffering what may be a fatal loss of confidence. Even if they are able to come up with a solution in a few weeks (and that is very speculative at this point), the damage has been done.

Almost every program I am on has been sending out "change your payout methods" and "dropping Epass" messages today. Because of the timing of the issue, some programs even got caught wiring money into what appears to be for the moment as a black hole of cash. You have to think that those programs are very unlikely to want to get caught there again.

The real questions here are the repercussions in the market place. Plenty of epass was being used to buy banner spots, ad spots, links, gallery spots, and so on. Some of the players had serious amounts of money on their cards. Clearly, some European webmasters were using the system to avoid check charges, but many were also using it as a way to avoid taxes by not technically bringing the money into their home countries, and directly paying hosting and domain expenses out of the account.

How many of those "playahs" will suddenly find themselves in the poor house with no way to actually get any of their cash?

[Greg B]

Regardless of what all else happens, Epass is now suffering what may be a fatal loss of confidence. Even if they are able to come up with a solution in a few weeks (and that is very speculative at this point), the damage has been done.

Almost every program I am on has been sending out "change your payout methods" and "dropping Epass" messages today. Because of the timing of the issue, some programs even got caught wiring money into what appears to be for the moment as a black hole of cash. You have to think that those programs are very unlikely to want to get caught there again.

The real questions here are the repercussions in the market place. Plenty of epass was being used to buy banner spots, ad spots, links, gallery spots, and so on. Some of the players had serious amounts of money on their cards. Clearly, some European webmasters were using the system to avoid check charges, but many were also using it as a way to avoid taxes by not technically bringing the money into their home countries, and directly paying hosting and domain expenses out of the account.

How many of those "playahs" will suddenly find themselves in the poor house with no way to actually get any of their cash?

You sure hit the nail on the head there!

Add to that the parents and kids in college who use Epass who are fucked this holiday weekend and you have a major problem at hand. Not just webmasters use Epass.

Sure their confidence is going to take a huge hit and Epass is going to have to do some serious damage control to win back customers. They'll have to add some perks to reassure people and establish more preventative measures to avoid this kind of debacle in the future. However, it this incident is due to some glitch or foul up, it's good they got to it now and can remedy the situation.

Finally, if this situation isn't resolved within the time frame they've told us, which is the second time frame they've given us, they are done. Plain and simple. No one in their right mind will trust them again.

[EmporerEJ]

Look, 10 years ago, I read a report where they said they were gonna take down the adult industry by taking out the payment legs.
They are systematically doing that.
It's the easiest way to control the industry, and leave no "free speech" fingerprints.

The only way to combat it, is take on MC/VISA. Accusing them of being a defacto monopoly, which they are, and forcing them to then work under the scrutiny of a monopoly.

That's the only way to "get them," that I can see....

[Greg B]

Look, 10 years ago, I read a report where they said they were gonna take down the adult industry by taking out the payment legs.
They are systematically doing that.
It's the easiest way to control the industry, and leave no "free speech" fingerprints.

The only way to combat it, is take on MC/VISA. Accusing them of being a defacto monopoly, which they are, and forcing them to then work under the scrutiny of a monopoly.

That's the only way to "get them," that I can see....

Actually that's already in the works.

The cement that holds all this together is that if 2 or more Epassporte customers are in the military, law enforcement, emergency, college students, seniors, and their shit gets fucked up to the point of FUBAR then the shit will really hit the fan and it's already started. If it's found out that some customers were notified BEFORE the slam down then there will be ass to pay. Someone pulled the trigger and Epass says it's VISA, St. Kitts says it's Epass, VISA says it's St. Kitts, etc. Whoever pulled the trigger is looking at lawsuits that won't end. Maybe not from adult industry customers but from persons who's lives and livelihoods have been damaged and ruined.

If it's a case of hackers, there is no where on Earth they can go.

Things like this don't happen without prior notice, that's the law. The only way it would happen without notice is if Epass owed someone big money and some legal procedure was inacted. Now how could Epass owe lots of money and to whom?

It's all speculation but so far we've been told:

1.) It's their fault from all three entities, Epassporte, St. Kitts, VISA. All three pointing to the other.

2.) Epassporte said it was just a technical issue resolvable in 24 hours. Then we're told by next week. What will happen next week? We'll be told next month? Believe me, lawyers are ready to pounce.

Somebody somewhere screwed up big time and it's better than even money that some third party asshole is involved.

[EmporerEJ]

Things like this don't happen without prior notice, that's the law. The only way it would happen without notice is if Epass owed someone big money and some legal procedure was inacted. Now how could Epass owe lots of money and to whom?
.

Apparently you've never had your own merchant account. These things, and worse, CAN happen with a merchant account. They don't notify you before they pull money from you. They pull the money at the first whiff of a charge back, and don't give it back until you PROVE your case. In ALL cases, not some, not special....ALL cases, the merchant, (EPass in this case) is the guy holding the bag.
I don't know that this is the situation with them, but I DO know how it is to be a merchant after 25 years with my own merchant account.

[Greg B]

Apparently you've never had your own merchant account. These things, and worse, CAN happen with a merchant account. They don't notify you before they pull money from you. They pull the money at the first whiff of a charge back, and don't give it back until you PROVE your case. In ALL cases, not some, not special....ALL cases, the merchant, (EPass in this case) is the guy holding the bag.
I don't know that this is the situation with them, but I DO know how it is to be a merchant after 25 years with my own merchant account.

Oh I've had merchant accounts. Helped in the original days when they were used for online services and before in real estate.

"If" it was a merchant account issue it depends on the infraction or error on the part of the merchant or the bank. Sometimes banks hire stupid and inefficient people who don't know how to handle computers.

In this case when you contact each entity they give the same answer that it was the other guy's fault. That says to me a shirking of responsibility to avoid liability.

After Labor Day we'll call each company again, that's after the labor unions, teachers unions, parents, military folks get done with all three companies to get to the bottom of the matter.

[EmporerEJ]

Oh I've had merchant accounts. Helped in the original days when they were used for online services and before in real estate.

"If" it was a merchant account issue it depends on the infraction or error on the part of the merchant or the bank. Sometimes banks hire stupid and inefficient people who don't know how to handle computers.

In this case when you contact each entity they give the same answer that it was the other guy's fault. That says to me a shirking of responsibility to avoid liability.

After Labor Day we'll call each company again, that's after the labor unions, teachers unions, parents, military folks get done with all three companies to get to the bottom of the matter.

I'm certain this wasn't a merchant account issue.
I merely use that experience to illustrate a point.

I've had the same merchant account from the days of the manual slide machine, and check the little book for bad cards. Back when you dealt directly with your local bank, deposited the slips there, and there was no such thing as a POP machine, OR much computer processing.

Back then, you, the merchant were guaranteed payment, and charge backs were a rare, and unheard of thing. Even with mail/phone orders.

That is most certainly NOT the situation today.
The merchant, today, is ALWAYS the one holding the bag here. Even with all your paperwork and delivery documentation in hand, you are still at their mercy.

I'll be very interested to see what this shakes out to be....but I fear for the parties involved, especially the merchants, and girls that have performed services here, and should be paid.

[gonzo]

Bottom line is this was being used as unreported income.
Feds have been sniffing at it for a while and Mallick's arrogant mouth in the interviews about how much smarter he was than Visa didnt help.

Cue the music...

Ypkv0HeUvTc

[Greg B]

I'm certain this wasn't a merchant account issue.
I merely use that experience to illustrate a point.

I've had the same merchant account from the days of the manual slide machine, and check the little book for bad cards. Back when you dealt directly with your local bank, deposited the slips there, and there was no such thing as a POP machine, OR much computer processing.

Back then, you, the merchant were guaranteed payment, and charge backs were a rare, and unheard of thing. Even with mail/phone orders.

That is most certainly NOT the situation today.
The merchant, today, is ALWAYS the one holding the bag here. Even with all your paperwork and delivery documentation in hand, you are still at their mercy.

I'll be very interested to see what this shakes out to be....but I fear for the parties involved, especially the merchants, and girls that have performed services here, and should be paid.

I do well remember those days. We had merchant accounts doing comic book conventions etc..

It's just a coinkydink that this Epass problem occurred same time as the Craigslist problem.

Anyhow, there are alternatives to Epass and Gonzo mentioned unreported income and that's not true. The amount of data you put in to Epass as well as your ATM transactions are logged on multiple levels. The major problem is that the government is spending tons of time and effort on a vindictive witch hunt on the common person and middle class instead of putting a foot up the ass of major bankers who skirt by audits and other penalties.

Remember, it was we the people who bailed out "them the banks" who laughed in the face of government but government punishes the people.

This is all going to come to an ugly head soon as people are tired of getting fees to death, higher taxes, no representation in government and Banksters still getting phat pocket bonuses after fucking us over.

This goes all the way back to the usury laws. Laws that were put in place to prevent the debt crisis we're in but bitch assed lawmakers and Nixon let those laws slip and then Reagan deregulated. It was like letting two wolves and a sheep decide what was for dinner.

Believe you me, a student of mine who works for Google has some good money tied up in Epass and so do some of his colleagues there. They're looking to have Google start it's own p2p and VISA and MC are gonna be chomping at the bit for that business.

The more regulations piled on the common guy the less we'll spend and that means the economy goes into a standstill. Ain't it funny how we people can be audited but certain banks, financial institutions, the Federal Reserve can't be? That should tell you right there.

And the IRS with a decades long history of abuses including robbery, grand larceny, invasion of privacy, murder, extortion, mayhem etc. still hasn't been put in check?

Why is it an army of ex IRS employees now have thriving businesses helping people fight the IRS?

So sit back and watch the circus because somebody somewhere screwed up and I'm betting it was a third party involved and all parties are praying that the public doesn't find out who it was because they'll get sued.

If it was a hacker then the party responsible for not providing the proper security is in trouble.

If it was a clerical error the office where the error occurred is going to get sued.

If it was government intervention and it interrupted trade, it's their ass because that's one of the most fundamental laws on the books. No lawyer in his right mind will sit on the sidelines here as it just smells of a bonanza of lawsuits no matter how trivial the reason for this debacle.

[softball]

It's an interesting story to follow considering the bank in question is used by the U.S. Government for such matters as Social Security payments and such.

Epass and Michael their rep are sounding confident the issue will be resolved soon and yesterday at 6-7pm Pacific they said it would be handled in 24 hours. So we have another 6-7 hours to see what happens next.

In the meantime, now's the time for other ecommerce companies to come forward with their alternate options. Is Epass the only game in town? Are there other companies that offer what Epass does but better?

It's always wise to have a backup plan.

Its the same old same old. Hardly worth discussing. Its over. They always blame Visa or some bank asnd no one gets paid....except "them".
Suck up the loss and move on. BTW, which movie did they fund. Don't tell me it was that God awful fetish movie they shot on wedding cameras.......lol

[Greg B]

Its the same old same old. Hardly worth discussing. Its over. They always blame Visa or some bank asnd no one gets paid....except "them".
Suck up the loss and move on. BTW, which movie did they fund. Don't tell me it was that God awful fetish movie they shot on wedding cameras.......lol

They financed and directed a movie called "Middle Men" or some such.

Anyhow the best thing to come out from all this is people realized how complacent they had become and ended up with all their eggs in one basket.

Now they're scrambling around looking at alternatives and it looks good. They're learning more about the banking and money game.

The sig spot opportunities on the boards are unprecedented and we're finding out about sponsor programs and other services and tools of the trade!

If the webmaster community had been more cooperative before all this Epass shit there wouldn't be any bitching about sales and shit.

Gonzo and a few of you remember the good ol' days when we would share data and make loot.

Now you've got these punk ass wannabe gangsters fucking up the boards with their "hata" rap shit nonsense. I'd bet 99% of these asshats would shit if they came to the real deal "hood" and had to fend for themselves.

I'm sure Gonzo and you old timers remember the days when real gangsters used to run the streets. Them guys were stone cold but with a sense of honor. They'd wipe these new punks up with a mop.

[Cleo]

Trying to find all my sponsors that pay me via ePass is almost as hard as finding out what is going on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLUU41enZQA

[softball]

the days when real gangsters used to run the streets. Them guys were stone cold but with a sense of honor. They'd wipe these new punks up with a mop.

Those are the guys that made this shit possible. I would bet you would have made a lot more money if those "gangsters " had been locked up like they should have been. They were a litany of theft, hate, greed, thuggery and evil. Why do you admire them?

[TheEnforcer]

never used them because of the fee structure myself.

[softball]

I have never even thought of using epassport. So, i just looked at their webpage, and still see no resason to use them. Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that a lot of people had a lot of money sitting in some else's offshre account. A ticking time bomb. Why not use th conventional banking system that at least has a few more checks and balances and accountability. Could someone clue me in on what I am missing?

[Toby]

Why not use th conventional banking system that at least has a few more checks and balances and accountability. Could someone clue me in on what I am missing?

Two reasons. They were hiding income from the tax man. They we're avoiding high fees for cashing/depositing checks from another country.

I only use ePass for a handful of sponsors, all of them EU based, that do not issue checks through a US bank. I only make enough sales with one of them to get a payment every month. However, I have my account set to go directly to my ePass wallet. I don't even have one of their "Virtual Visa" cards. I just transfer the funds to my bank account.

[Greg B]

I have never even thought of using epassport. So, i just looked at their webpage, and still see no resason to use them. Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that a lot of people had a lot of money sitting in some else's offshre account. A ticking time bomb. Why not use th conventional banking system that at least has a few more checks and balances and accountability. Could someone clue me in on what I am missing?

It ain't sayin' much about the safe infrastructure of the conventional banking system considering the number of bank failures of recent and hundreds more failures predicted by year's end.

People use ecommerce solutions like Epass for any number of reasons. It's the illicit use that ruins things for everyone but a look at our mainstream banking system shows that crooks are rampant all over. The government didn't have to give billions of $$$ to Epassporte to bail them out. ( yeah I know they're not a bank but you get the picture ).

Toby said it right in his post above.

[EmporerEJ]

It ain't sayin' much about the safe infrastructure of the conventional banking system considering the number of bank failures of recent and hundreds more failures predicted by year's end.

.

Odd, I was just reading about the "record profits" of all those "failed banks."

Help me here......how many have "failed," exactly?
As I recall, the number was MUCH lower than anticipated, and more in line with normal level.

Don't drink the kool aid.

[softball]

Odd, I was just reading about the "record profits" of all those "failed banks."

Help me here......how many have "failed," exactly?
As I recall, the number was MUCH lower than anticipated, and more in line with normal level.

Don't drink the kool aid.

None in Canada

[EmporerEJ]

Do they HAVE banks in Canada?
I thought y'all traded moose chips.


:happy45::rofl::lmao1:


I kill me........:yowsa:

[softball]

Do they HAVE banks in Canada?
I thought y'all traded moose chips.


:happy45::rofl::lmao1:


I kill me........:yowsa:
That is possible. But it seems they are worth more than a US dollar.:waving:

[rycpitbull]

i am so with you raw, after researching epass. there is soooo much out there on the net with people being ripped off... i think its such a coincidence of the date and timing. i have never known visa to suspend accounts like that.

Manwin/Brazzers used epassporte to payout their affiliates. Manwin/Brazzers involved in a US DOJ investigation. Lights out.

[rycpitbull]

Bottom line is this was being used as unreported income. True... We made deposits from epass either electronic or transfer and they had to be booked as income. I see what you are saying though. Some were just pocketing.

[gonzo]

Manwin/Brazzers used epassporte to payout their affiliates. Manwin/Brazzers involved in a US DOJ investigation. Lights out.

Some advice for Epassport

_sN16fdzdMg

[Greg B]

Gonzo, I'm sure you remember earlier this Summer when I posted and warned folks about a banking scam that had hit several states like Ohio, Illinois, and Nebraska to name a few. Hackers were using a telecommunications robot to ask people to update their banking info and tens of thousands of people fell for it. Well lo and be-mother fucking-hold, I came across a story that mentions how the FTC had to crack down on that scam and not only that, but the scammers claimed to be from a company called "Account Holder Services" that is an outsourced company in India that does the telecommunications and customer support for banks and companies including Epassporte! As customers of Epassporte can tell you, it's difficult understanding the customer service reps there. It may, just may be that as the authorities were doing their due diligence and St. Kitts National Bank followed through to make sure each client and partner had their shit together, Epassporte failed the white glove test. If you read the story from the St. Kitts Observer, the rep for the National Bank there states how VISA cleared them of any wrongdoing. That means both National Bank and VISA acknowledge the responsibility for this fuck up rests on Epassporte alone. No wonder they don't put out more data because they need to get their lawyers together to cover their asses. We now know that several investigations by the authorities are and have been in motion for some time and we'll see how this turns out. I'm sure an arbitrator/auditor will disperse people's funds when they've got everyone's personal data on file, but the odds of some criminal and civil charges against whomever is responsible are pending, especially from people who've suffered damages and losses. It ain't over yet by a damn sight.

http://www.thestkittsnevisobserver.com/2010/09/10/epassport-controversy.html

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2010/06/asiapacific.shtm

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.dcom.telecom/browse_thread/thread/9bf278c1450c5111

[Greg B]

http://www.thewrap.com/movies/column-post/middle-man-producer-mallicks-porn-customers-credit-squeeze-20733

Well ain't this interesting! Gonzo, you knew all along.