Sony HandyCam HDR-SR10E ... help :(

[cheeky_chappie]

guys / girls

to facilitate my toe-dipping into video shoots i've bought the above camcorder, not the cheapest and by no means the best, but hopefully decent enough for now, shoots in true hd etc etc.

got it set up earlier tonight and tried it in the house, granted it was already 9pm and dull outside, so the house lights were on (some rooms with 60w bulbs, some with 100w bulbs.)

when i played back my first test clip the pic quality was ... emmm ... how can i put it :whistling sh1t :( all grainy and auto-focus seems to be taking 1-2 secs to re-focus when i pan around. i filmed a mate in the kitchen and this was the clearest part of the shoot, but still nowhere near sharp and crisp.

i should point out my lcd display only goes up to 1680 x 1050 and the camcorder is shooting in 1920 x 1080 so not sure if this will be contributing to my woes?

as i say i've yet to try it in daylight both inside and out, but surely in an average sized room with white ceiling and light-ish wallpaper (my lounge) and light on the quality should be pretty good, no?

my concern is when i shoot models in their home i'll end up having to take additional lighting which tbh i don't want to do, it's either that or i buy a camcorder light (on-board) for it?

thoughts / advice? :wnw:

[cheeky_chappie]

update, i've purchased a small on-board sony light, has auto setting so should come on as and when required. i'm hoping this'll make a difference, should have it in a few days.

[softball]

try it outside in the shade with your colour balance set to the little cloud and report back.
When you shoot inside, you should be using lighting in most conditions and the colour balance should be set to the little light bulb.
Another thing you should try is kicking up the gain. Look into your manual as to how to do this. In fact read your manual from cover to cover to get an idea of what you are doing.
This is a thousand dollar camera and I suspect at that price, its low light capabilities are sketchy.
Its all about lighting.

[Rcourt64]

try it outside in the shade with your colour balance set to the little cloud and report back.
When you shoot inside, you should be using lighting in most conditions and the colour balance should be set to the little light bulb.
Another thing you should try is kicking up the gain. Look into your manual as to how to do this. In fact read your manual from cover to cover to get an idea of what you are doing.
This is a thousand dollar camera and I suspect at that price, its low light capabilities are sketchy.
Its all about lighting.

http://www.wussu.co.uk/images01/blind_lead.jpg

[softball]

Fuck off Rcourt. This guy is asking for help. He is new to the board and you are insulting him before he even gets going. You little weasel.

[Rcourt64]

Fuck off Rcourt. This guy is asking for help. He is new to the board and you are insulting him before he even gets going. You little weasel.
the picture was in reference to you, it had nothing to do with him.
So how you wanna try this fuck off thing? I'm open for ideas babe ;)

[gonzo]

update, i've purchased a small on-board sony light, has auto setting so should come on as and when required. i'm hoping this'll make a difference, should have it in a few days.

Light it up without washing out the picture like Graham said. Ive got a lot of low level lit video that always looks grainy no matter how many filters you apply to it.

I have to buy a light kit myself.

[softball]

Light it up without washing out the picture like Graham said. Ive got a lot of low level lit video that always looks grainy no matter how many filters you apply to it.

I have to buy a light kit myself.
Its the nature of video and film. The harder you push it, the grainier it gets. You have to light it, even if you want it to look "natural". Its a fact of life. Filters can't correct this. In fact they will make it worse.
There are lots of easy, basic lighting courses on the net. Just have a look around.

[softball]

the picture was in reference to you, it had nothing to do with him.
So how you wanna try this fuck off thing? I'm open for ideas babe ;)

I'm not. You called the new guy blind. What a welcome, you turd.

[softball]

Don't pay any attention to Rcourt. Let us know how your movie making progresses and if you need any help, just ask.

[cheeky_chappie]

thanks for feedback guys & girls (i think :blink:) have ordered the sony hvl-hl1 on-board light (3w xenon, powered via camera), hoping it'll help matters. it's pretty low powered but i don't want models having to squint when looking at camera.

tried shooting a bit around the house when in from work tonight (still nice and bright outside) and things were a lot better ... still a bit disappointed with the auto focus though, sometimes takes that 1-2 secs to refocus when i pan :scratchin

if the 3w light is rubbish i'll probably try the sony hvl-10nh (10w halogen battery powered) i'll let you know how i get on with the 3w one after it arrives.

CC

[softball]

thanks for feedback guys & girls (i think :blink:) have ordered the sony hvl-hl1 on-board light (3w xenon, powered via camera), hoping it'll help matters. it's pretty low powered but i don't want models having to squint when looking at camera.

tried shooting a bit around the house when in from work tonight (still nice and bright outside) and things were a lot better ... still a bit disappointed with the auto focus though, sometimes takes that 1-2 secs to refocus when i pan :scratchin

if the 3w light is rubbish i'll probably try the sony hvl-10nh (10w halogen battery powered) i'll let you know how i get on with the 3w one after it arrives.

CC
Piece of advice. Don't waste your money with on board lights. We call them stun guns.
You will need....I should stress this....you WILL need a light kit of some description. Your lighting is exacerbating your focus issues. There are certain basics you can't ignore. The less you know, in fact, the less you can ignore. Like I said earlier...before you spend another nickel, read up on basic lighting for video. Otherwise, don't bother. It will ultimately be a waste of time and money for you.

[cheeky_chappie]

Piece of advice. Don't waste your money with on board lights. We call them stun guns.
You will need....I should stress this....you WILL need a light kit of some description. Your lighting is exacerbating your focus issues. There are certain basics you can't ignore. The less you know, in fact, the less you can ignore. Like I said earlier...before you spend another nickel, read up on basic lighting for video. Otherwise, don't bother. It will ultimately be a waste of time and money for you.

:whistling emmmm, already bought it, but only cost pennies (cents?) as off ebay. 'we call them stun guns' :bustingup i like it, however on a serious note i can see your point. okay you've rumbled me ... i'm basically lazy with lighting and am always looking for the easiest way to light scenes, i'm guilty of that with my stills shoots as well, i admit :unsure:

i can't post links as yet but am wondering if something like this would suffice:

2 x 1000w halogen 3200k lamps
1 x silver umbrella
1 x translucent umbrella

interfit (don't know if they're know to all?) do a kit, ref no. INT191, that's the sort of thing i might go for if on-board is a waste of time.

[softball]

:whistling emmmm, already bought it, but only cost pennies (cents?) as off ebay. 'we call them stun guns' :bustingup i like it, however on a serious note i can see your point. okay you've rumbled me ... i'm basically lazy with lighting and am always looking for the easiest way to light scenes, i'm guilty of that with my stills shoots as well, i admit :unsure:

i can't post links as yet but am wondering if something like this would suffice:

2 x 1000w halogen 3200k lamps
1 x silver umbrella
1 x translucent umbrella

interfit (don't know if they're know to all?) do a kit, ref no. INT191, that's the sort of thing i might go for if on-board is a waste of time.

That would light up your world for sure. However, if you can find some kind of kino flo like fluorescent lighting you might be happier. !K lights are like 1K heaters.....really hot. Kino or kino knock offs are great because you can get 5600K bulbs and balance them with incoming daylight so it gives you lots of light to play with without the risk of burning up blue gels etc. Have a look around.

[DannyCox]

I agree, go with the proper fluorescent lighting and you'll be much happier, as will your talent. We have a number of halogen lights, both Red Heads and large soft boxes. While they are just great in a large studio with good air flow, when I need to use them in a more confined space, I'm sweating within 15 minutes! Even worse, so are the models!

I'm ordering a portable fluorescent kit shortly for use at home, in hotel rooms, etc.

I'm also looking at getting a smaller HD cam for quick shoots and POV. Probably going with the hard drive version as I can capture the short clips I plan, then output to tape for archiving. I'm thinking of the Sony HDRSR12, but I'm still researching.

[RawAlex]

Not sure about that particular camera, but many cameras will have everything from auto focus to auto gain, and that can often be their downfall.

Autogain attempts to make the image bright enough, even if you don't have enough light. Most of them time, increasing gain means they also amplify the noise, so you get a bright enough images but it either has a fine snow, a funny color, or the images may smear a bit on movement.

If the camera allows you the option, try shooting without the electronic gain (limit it to what the lens can do) and see what you get. The images will probably be too dark to use, but the quality should go way up. That is the perfect reason to get a lighting kit to help you out.

For autofocus, a couple of things: Most autofocus systems fail badly in low light. So if you don't have good lighting, the autofocus won't be very good. If you shoot with the camera outside, you will see the autofocus work much more quickly.

Also, you may have a way on that camera (not sure) to set the autofocus to "on demand only" which means that it only refocuses when you push a button or similar. That way you can keep it from cycling in and out and in and out of focus.

Improved lighting would probably solve much of your issues here.

[DannyCox]

The camera does have autofocus and autogain, but both can be switched to manual.

As has been mentioned, proper lighting is the key. I also only shoot with manual focus and minimize camera movement. I also rarely zoom in or out while I am shooting, unless I am planning a zoom to dissolve for a scene transition.

Common rookie mistakes are too much panning and zooming while shooting (we've all been there). Keep the shot clean and consistent, and if you want to change angles, pause, get your new angle and shoot again. It's the basics of "in camera editing" and speeds things up for you in post.

[softball]

It all comes down to lighting. I like to choose cameras with as few buttons as possible and as few features as possible. I shoot with an FX 1. I got the very first one released in Canada about 5 years ago, and it still soldiers on. But it still has way too many menus and buttons for my taste. I previously owned betacams and they had very little to fuck with. Stay away from all the silly features.
I like auto focus, because it can follow focus and focus faster than I can. I shoot exclusively on manual exposure and pre set my white balance and never change it unless I move into a new lighting situation.
Most auto features are useless if you intend to make money at this and get clean images.
I also have a Sony wireless mic that I hide in flower pots etc. to avoid hand noise and breathing sounds on the camera.
What Danny says is very true about editing in the camera. I will tend to keep rolling through zooms and edit them out later because sometimes they capture a "moment" that is useful. Its an easy cut, but it takes a little longer.
However, the bottom line as it always is..........Lighting, Lighting, and Lighting.

[Greg B]

Welcome to the board!

As for SONY and their hardware, I have two rules:

Don't buy SONY products.

Don't buy SONY products because their manufacturing and customer support eats shit.

Every piece of SONY equipment I've bought during the 2000's has gone to shit. SONY doesn't confront the problem and with one handycam the solution was literally to slap it on the bottom! Millions of customers complaining and the high tech answer was to slap it on the bottom!

They went for cheap manufacturing and when they got caught they tried to bullshit their way out of it. Don't even get me started on their Playstation line of defective products.

I bought a SONY cam in '97. That thing went through hell and worked to a 'T' for almost 10 years of continual use. I bought a SONY handycam in 2006 and the fucker has been shitting every other day.

Bottom line, trade the camera in for a better company. Save yourself time and misery.

[Gerco]

Welcome to the board!

As for SONY and their hardware, I have two rules:

Don't buy SONY products.

Don't buy SONY products because their manufacturing and customer support eats shit.

Every piece of SONY equipment I've bought during the 2000's has gone to shit. SONY doesn't confront the problem and with one handycam the solution was literally to slap it on the bottom! Millions of customers complaining and the high tech answer was to slap it on the bottom!

They went for cheap manufacturing and when they got caught they tried to bullshit their way out of it. Don't even get me started on their Playstation line of defective products.

I bought a SONY cam in '97. That thing went through hell and worked to a 'T' for almost 10 years of continual use. I bought a SONY handycam in 2006 and the fucker has been shitting every other day.

Bottom line, trade the camera in for a better company. Save yourself time and misery.

I have to differ...

I had a Nice little single chip sony Mini DV that I shot the crap out of. I tossed it around everywhere and it never gave me a single problem. When I got my Vx2000 I gave it to some friends for their shooting and they are still using it everyday for their cam shows etc. As for my vx2000, I got it used from Commander, it was already pretty beat up and had had a ton to tape though it before I got it. It works perfectly, I even borrow it out to others who have used it in filming a couple dozen DVD's with it. It's time to get it refurbished, but the cost of doing so is low enough that why not. One of the best things about these cameras is the compact size and built in screens, unlike the canon equivalents. I'll most likely look at getting the Sony HD version at some point because of the good luck I have had with them.

On the playstation.... I made the mistake of turning it off via the switch in the back and fried the laser... Hmm... that was a totally poor design... Your told in the manual not to do it, but who reads those damn things... I was able to get it replaced with a brand new one just by taking it back to bestbuy... so no biggy.. and now ˆ use the controller to shut it down. Problem solved.

[Gerco]

Oh, and to the original question... I have never used the camera mentioned, but the key to any good video shooting (as with any good photography) is Light light lights. It really can not be said enough. Go get yourself at least a set of totam lights, they are dirt cheap, small and pack easy, bad thing is they are HOT. If you absolutely on a strict budget, goto home depot and pict up a couple sets of halogen shop lights, for around 20 bucks a pair. Then take them apart, and paint the inside reflectors with a high temp white engine paint. This will greatly cut down on the harshness of the light and make your stuff look much better. goto your local pro photo store and ask for some high temp cloth you can also put in from of the lights and shoot though, This has a fairly nice effect and will help smooth out the shadowing on your subject, or at minimum try to bounce the light off a white wall or ceiling. (don't shoot the lights directly at what your shooting unless you want seriously harsh shadows and hot spots....)

[DannyCox]

I've never used Sony, all my video cameras are Canon's. The only Sony camera I ever owned was an old digital still from back near the beginning, and it was crap. But I can't comment on the quality these days at all.

I had many friends shooting with the VX1000 and the VX2000 and the results were very good. I have 2 GL-1's, a GL-2, an XL-1 and an XL-2. I found that I can "fake" HD on-line with the XL-2 as I bump up the resolution on FCP edit output and the quality is still better than most lower priced HD cams. (That was a trick I learned from one of the big sites that says all their video is true HD....it isn't)

[softball]

Oh, and to the original question... I have never used the camera mentioned, but the key to any good video shooting (as with any good photography) is Light light lights. It really can not be said enough. Go get yourself at least a set of totam lights, they are dirt cheap, small and pack easy, bad thing is they are HOT. If you absolutely on a strict budget, goto home depot and pict up a couple sets of halogen shop lights, for around 20 bucks a pair. Then take them apart, and paint the inside reflectors with a high temp white engine paint. This will greatly cut down on the harshness of the light and make your stuff look much better. goto your local pro photo store and ask for some high temp cloth you can also put in from of the lights and shoot though, This has a fairly nice effect and will help smooth out the shadowing on your subject, or at minimum try to bounce the light off a white wall or ceiling. (don't shoot the lights directly at what your shooting unless you want seriously harsh shadows and hot spots....)
Those home depot work lights are dangerous. Way too hot and should be avoided at all costs. You can do some serious damage with those things and when and if the bulbs explode, look out.

If you are going to get compact hot lights, get some lowel (i think they are called) v lights. They are cheap as chips used. they are small and can be supported by lightweight cheap stands or clamped to any number of things.
Personally, I would still look for a fluorescent solution.

[Gerco]

Those home depot work lights are dangerous. Way too hot and should be avoided at all costs. You can do some serious damage with those things and when and if the bulbs explode, look out.

If you are going to get compact hot lights, get some lowel (i think they are called) v lights. They are cheap as chips used. they are small and can be supported by lightweight cheap stands or clamped to any number of things.
Personally, I would still look for a fluorescent solution.

Like I said... the lowal lights are a good way to go. You can pick up a nice set with umbrellas stands and a nice carry bag for around 857.95 at B&H (It's where I got mine) It's called the

Lowel DV Creator 1 Three Light Kit, GO-85 Case (120-240VAC/12-30VDC)
1450 Total WattsTota, Omni, Pro-Lights, 120V BulbsBarndoors, Umbrella, Gel Frame, GelsFlag, Stands, GO-85 Hard Kit Case

But, I was talking about a cheap way to go if you HAD to...

[softball]

just type in video light as a search term in ebay and there are a ton of inexpensive lighting kits.

[cheeky_chappie]

guys / girls, thanks for all the replies and advice. i hadn't thought of fluorescent and, having had a quick look at these lights on the net i think this might be the way for me to go.

i'm only being honest with you, as much as i like stills / video work for some reason i've never been into the lighting side of it, which is weird as i did some lighting work (theatre) years ago and loved it but these days i want to get the end result with as little input (lighting wise) as is possible ... which i know is wrong as it's such an integral / required part of completing a good shoot.

i'll try to be a good boy and buy a lighting kit to ensure my images are at least half decent, thanks again for all the tips :wnw::clapping::wnw:

[RawAlex]

Well, if you are looking to make it look like there isn't any lighting, one of the tricks is to make sure there are visible light sources in the shots (like lamps or something), and then set your other lights up so that it is slightly brighter in that area. It gives the impression that the light is still coming from the lamp or whatever, but combined with other lights (diffused) you will get an overall nicer look.

Your camera will be much happier :)