nanny state Mentality

[EmporerEJ]

Folks, here's what's wrong with all those "help the po' unfortunate slugs" programs:

Surcharge to Fund Medicaid Stipend
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. - Florida lawmakers have proposed a $1 tax on strip club admissions to give low-income Medicaid recipients a larger monthly stipend.

Rep. Rick Kriseman, D-St. Petersburg, said he got the idea after Cecelia Baci, a 77-year-old St. Petersburg resident, complained that a $35 monthly stipend for Medicaid recipients was not enough to cover personal needs.

"I'm sorry if I've taken a dollar that you would have otherwise stuck in someone's garter," said Kriseman, who is sponsoring the legislation with Sen. Ronda Storms, R-Brandon.

The adult entertainment industry says it will fight the bill, which aims to increase the Medicaid allowance to $70 a month.

"Everyone I mention it to has one word for it: stupid," Joe Redner, owner of a Tampa club with a $20 cover charge. "It's a noble cause. Old people should have some money. But they should get it from everybody, not just us."

The woman whose situation prompted the bill thinks it's a great idea.

"If people can afford to go to these places," Baci told the St. Petersburg Times, "they can afford to pay a little more for us."


Yea, that's it. Put your filthy, lazy, hand, out there woman....
Take the money from the girl who is actually WORKING for a living.
Friggin' slugs...dig a hole and dump 'em all in.

Original story:
http://www.sptimes.com/2008/02/07/State/Strip_club_surcharge_.shtml

[Rcourt64]

Joe wont let that shit fly.

But maybe a surcharge from adult internet revenue might be possibly a faster way to build capital for these poor seniors, possibly every pro webmasters & sponsor which introduces a 10-99 form higher the 100G should be deducted .005% for these poor seniors :okthumb:

[Hell Puppy]

I'm afraid it'll only get worse.

The baby boomers are aging. We're seeing the last of a generation with pension funds. Many of the new folks hitting retirement age in the next decade or two will have to do so with what they've saved themselves and whatever is left of social security, which is on course to be nothing.

These people have worked their whole lives knowing someday they'll retire and have had retirement investment options available to them. Many will retire with little to no networth beyond maybe the house that they live in and an increasing number will still have mortgage payments at age 65+. They're gonna scream like raped apes for the government to take care of them.

[EmporerEJ]

I'm afraid it'll only get worse.

The baby boomers are aging. We're seeing the last of a generation with pension funds. Many of the new folks hitting retirement age in the next decade or two will have to do so with what they've saved themselves and whatever is left of social security, which is on course to be nothing.

These people have worked their whole lives knowing someday they'll retire and have had retirement investment options available to them. Many will retire with little to no networth beyond maybe the house that they live in and an increasing number will still have mortgage payments at age 65+. They're gonna scream like raped apes for the government to take care of them.

Yes, and that's our problem because.......?

[Rcourt64]

Yes, and that's our problem because.......?


I say Tax the shit outta those electric gizmo's used for sexual pleasure, and leave the sexual spirited hard working naked babes alone !!!!..... :whistling

[Nymph]

I say Tax the shit outta those electric gizmo's used for sexual pleasure, and leave the sexual spirited hard working naked babes alone !!!!..... :whistling

ohhhh, if only there were men that could last as long as those electric gizmos.....

;)

[Hell Puppy]

Yes, and that's our problem because.......?

It's tax time. Makes me selfish. I bust my ass and this is the time of year I get to see how much of my earnings goes to the government so others can sit on their ass and make an existence off government services.

I live in Atlanta.

Let me tell you how bad it is in Atlanta.

Here, the main hospital in the city is Grady Memorial, it is a government run facility. It is also the only level 3 trauma center anywhere near the city proper. You can imagine what a zoo the emergency room is. It's chaos 24/7.

Now Atlanta is a town where we definitely have a significant portion of the urban population who feel entitled and know how to play every game there is to get as much as they can from the government as well as any mark who might venture down their street. They were attempting to hustle us the other night when we ventured into town for the Van Halen concert.

Ok, so let's say you dont have a car, dont have cab fare, but you need to go downtown and you live out on the east side a little ways. Know how you get downtown? Easy, you dial 911, say you're having chest pains and having a hard time breathing. An ambulance will quickly arrive and take you to Grady Memorial. You'll quickly be dumped in a room, queue'd up and left alone. You just walk out. Do your shopping or whatever.

Happens multiple times every day, has for at least a decade. The local news has reported on it, still the city takes no action to prevent it. Out comes the race card, how dare you want to lock up an old lady who wanted nothing more than to get downtown so she could see her grand chilluns...

[EmporerEJ]

Let me tell you how bad it is in Atlanta.

Here, the main hospital in the city is Grady Memorial, it is a government run facility. It is also the only level 3 trauma center anywhere near the city proper. You can imagine what a zoo the emergency room is. It's chaos 24/7.

Now Atlanta is a town where we definitely have a significant portion of the urban population who feel entitled and know how to play every game there is to get as much as they can from the government as well as any mark who might venture down their street. They were attempting to hustle us the other night when we ventured into town for the Van Halen concert.

Ok, so let's say you dont have a car, dont have cab fare, but you need to go downtown and you live out on the east side a little ways. Know how you get downtown? Easy, you dial 911, say you're having chest pains and having a hard time breathing. An ambulance will quickly arrive and take you to Grady Memorial. You'll quickly be dumped in a room, queue'd up and left alone. You just walk out. Do your shopping or whatever.

Happens multiple times every day, has for at least a decade. The local news has reported on it, still the city takes no action to prevent it. Out comes the race card, how dare you want to lock up an old lady who wanted nothing more than to get downtown so she could see her grand chilluns...

Gotta love it.

[EmporerEJ]

I say Tax the shit outta those electric gizmo's used for sexual pleasure, and leave the sexual spirited hard working naked babes alone !!!!..... :whistling

Well gee...thanks allot.
Now you want me to carry the load.... (pun Definitely intended)

:yowsa:

[RawAlex]

The problem is that governments feel that they can tax sin businesses and products almost without issue. Smokes, booze, adult material, etc.

On the other hand, the undercharge for services. How much do you pay to plate you car each year? How many cars in your state? How much is the budget to maintain the roads in your state? Figure out how cheap your plates are.

[EmporerEJ]

The problem is that governments feel that they can tax sin businesses and products almost without issue. Smokes, booze, adult material, etc.

On the other hand, the undercharge for services. How much do you pay to plate you car each year? How many cars in your state? How much is the budget to maintain the roads in your state? Figure out how cheap your plates are.


Hmmmm...I don't know where to begin. First of all, My "state" isn't a "state," it's a commonwealth. The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. If, by "you," you mean "your" in the 3rd person, then my "state" doesn't matter. This story is about Florida.
I'm not sure what their "plate" charge is, and I'm really sure it has no bearing on the issue. The issue is about selective taxation on a particular business for an unrelated expense to regulate/operate/monitor that business. We add to that, the wrinkle that this business, dancing, enjoys a higher level of constitutional protection because it's also a free speech/expression-art form, issue.

I'm not sure how you are equating "license plates" to that? (You did mean license plates, i.e registration, right? Not Chrome plating the bumpers or some other form of "plating?")

[RawAlex]

Hmmmm...I don't know where to begin. First of all, My "state" isn't a "state," it's a commonwealth. The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. If, by "you," you mean "your" in the 3rd person, then my "state" doesn't matter. This story is about Florida.
I'm not sure what their "plate" charge is, and I'm really sure it has no bearing on the issue. The issue is about selective taxation on a particular business for an unrelated expense to regulate/operate/monitor that business. We add to that, the wrinkle that this business, dancing, enjoys a higher level of constitutional protection because it's also a free speech/expression-art form, issue.

I'm not sure how you are equating "license plates" to that? (You did mean license plates, i.e registration, right? Not Chrome plating the bumpers or some other form of "plating?")

*sigh* License plate. That thing with the number and / or letters on the car that allows you to drive the car on the street, aka the registration. In most places, it is a yearly fee. Some states (Hate to tell you that Pennsylvania is a state, even if you want to call it something else) use a sticker or tag system to mark the year as paid, others require smog testing or similar.

The concept is this: Things like strip clubs, beer, smokes and other "sin" items are tax disproportionately to other forms of taxation or fees, because the government knows that they can get away with it. Conversely, things that people would complain about, like the price of putting their car on the road or building permits, example, are kept significantly lower than their costs to make people happy.

I am sorry if this basic concept is beyond the understanding of someone from such an important place as a Commonwealth.

[EmporerEJ]

*sigh* License plate. That thing with the number and / or letters on the car that allows you to drive the car on the street, aka the registration. In most places, it is a yearly fee. Some states (Hate to tell you that Pennsylvania is a state, even if you want to call it something else) use a sticker or tag system to mark the year as paid, others require smog testing or similar.

The concept is this: Things like strip clubs, beer, smokes and other "sin" items are tax disproportionately to other forms of taxation or fees, because the government knows that they can get away with it. Conversely, things that people would complain about, like the price of putting their car on the road or building permits, example, are kept significantly lower than their costs to make people happy.

I am sorry if this basic concept is beyond the understanding of someone from such an important place as a Commonwealth.

(Commonwealth argument aside, as it's off topic, and really not all that important,)

Ummmm...YEA. That's exactly my point. But I don't think the people of Virginia would agree with you on that. As their "Random Tax" (As I prefer to call it,) That is, the automobile Citation is now about $3,000, and they will allow you to pay that in 3 yearly installments of $1,000 each.

And, believe it or not, they do refer to cigarettes, booze, et taxes as "sin taxes" here. (Gotta love that.)
But again, I contend those taxes are different. "Free Speech" is one of the big three enumerated. The others, are not.

[RawAlex]

I am not sure what "citation" you are talking about in Virginia, the costs to register and plate a car in that state are pretty low:

http://www.dmv.virginia.gov/webdoc/citizen/fees.asp

$10 for the title, and under $40 for a car under 4000lbs.

Not exactly sure where you are going.

----

Anyway, the point is this: Roads cost a ton, registering and keeping a car on the road in government fees is often far below what it costs to keep the roads there. How do they pay for it? Sin taxes, surcharges, tolls, and other fees that people won't notice (feds use tools like gas taxes to generate income). Taxing the crap out of strip clubs both creates desired income, while putting down those evil adult entertainment places. Politically it is a double win.

Also, taxation, as long as it is evenly applied to all similar businesses, is pretty hard to get struck down. "free speech" doesn't really have to be free, just not restricted in manners that stop or discourage the free speech from occurring. They aren't taxing free speech, they are taxing people who want to listen to the free speech.

[EmporerEJ]

I am not sure what "citation" you are talking about in Virginia, the costs to register and plate a car in that state are pretty low:

http://www.dmv.virginia.gov/webdoc/citizen/fees.asp

$10 for the title, and under $40 for a car under 4000lbs.

Not exactly sure where you are going.

----

Anyway, the point is this: Roads cost a ton, registering and keeping a car on the road in government fees is often far below what it costs to keep the roads there. How do they pay for it? Sin taxes, surcharges, tolls, and other fees that people won't notice (feds use tools like gas taxes to generate income). Taxing the crap out of strip clubs both creates desired income, while putting down those evil adult entertainment places. Politically it is a double win.

Also, taxation, as long as it is evenly applied to all similar businesses, is pretty hard to get struck down. "free speech" doesn't really have to be free, just not restricted in manners that stop or discourage the free speech from occurring. They aren't taxing free speech, they are taxing people who want to listen to the free speech.

Not "going" anywhere.....be a resident and get pulled over. You'll find out about the "random tax."

Anyhow, you forget about the 60% road taxes, etc in a gallon of gas. That's a HUGE chunk of money to pay for the roads. And, where it properly should be. As a "consumption" tax. The more you drive, the more you wear the roads, the more you pay. The states use those fees too, not just the feds.

And your remark about "not taxing free speech" is just ridiculous. Like the tree falling in the forest; if you have no one to hear it, you have no speech.

[RawAlex]

Not "going" anywhere.....be a resident and get pulled over. You'll find out about the "random tax."

Anyhow, you forget about the 60% road taxes, etc in a gallon of gas. That's a HUGE chunk of money to pay for the roads. And, where it properly should be. As a "consumption" tax. The more you drive, the more you wear the roads, the more you pay. The states use those fees too, not just the feds.

And your remark about "not taxing free speech" is just ridiculous. Like the tree falling in the forest; if you have no one to hear it, you have no speech.


Ahh, well, if you get pulled over for breaking the law, you pay the fine, whatever that is. It isn't a tax, unless you consider it a tax on being stupid enough to get caught.

The courts in most countries have long held that the governments can tax stuff, pretty much anything they like, provided that the tax is applied equally to everyone that it applies to. The gas tax you mention is pretty much the same thing: The more strip clubs you visit, the more tax you pay. The only time you can ever fight one of these things is when the tax makes it impossible for people to hear the free speech (say like a $1000 tax would). $20 is nothing, considering most people who go to a strip club will drop hundreds on drinks and dancers. It would be hard to find a court to throw out that sort of amusement tax.

[EmporerEJ]

Ahh, well, if you get pulled over for breaking the law, you pay the fine, whatever that is. It isn't a tax, unless you consider it a tax on being stupid enough to get caught.

The courts in most countries have long held that the governments can tax stuff, pretty much anything they like, provided that the tax is applied equally to everyone that it applies to. The gas tax you mention is pretty much the same thing: The more strip clubs you visit, the more tax you pay. The only time you can ever fight one of these things is when the tax makes it impossible for people to hear the free speech (say like a $1000 tax would). $20 is nothing, considering most people who go to a strip club will drop hundreds on drinks and dancers. It would be hard to find a court to throw out that sort of amusement tax.

Yea, we can argue how about when a "fine equal to the crime" exceeds, and becomes abusive. $3K for speeding? I think everyone will agree that's abusive. And it's only applied to citizens of VA. I hate to go ad nauseum on this, but YOU brought up VA.

As for the rest, I give up. You simply refuse to see my point. I'll wait for the tax to make it's way through the courts, and be found unconstitutional.
It doesn't directly affect me, and I have to choose my battles.
Gods knows, there are enough battles to keep us hopping.

[RawAlex]

I gotta say you have me wondering here.

You brought up Virginia, I didn't. You mentioned it, I responded. Is the fine excessive? It all depends on how you look at it, I guess. It isn't the point, because fines are attached to breaking the law, taxes and levies are not.

As for the rest of it, well, I wish luck to the people who may oppose it, but I think they will find themselves facing a pretty blank wall of "equally applied".