How will the recession effect our industry?

[Forest]

they say our biz in based on impulse buys. Will a recession effect us dramatically?

[bluemoney]

There's always "meat to be beat" :wankit:

[Toby]

Might actually help a littlle. People staying at home more instead of spending money going out. $25/month for a paysite membership is cheap compared to going out to a bar/club a couple of times a week.

Also, a good chunk of my traffic is European. The same $25.00 membership that cost €19.20 a year ago, costs only €16.90 today.

[Rcourt64]

There's always "meat to be beat" :wankit:

As if this industry serves another purpose????? :blink:

Fucking porn is not considered a necessity commodity for society. neither is the Internet for that matter. if another recession falls into effect, this industry would sink

[bluemoney]

. . . . if another recession falls into effect, this industry would sink
BULLFUCKINSHIT!! Tobacco, Alcohol & Porn are a mainstay in this economy.
John Q Public may cut back on a lot of shit, but he's always going to have the ability to get drunk, beat his meat and have a smoke afterword.

[Forest]

As if this industry serves another purpose????? :blink:

Fucking porn is not considered a necessity commodity for society. neither is the Internet for that matter. if another recession falls into effect, this industry would sink

another newb county heard from

[cosmiccat]

BULLFUCKINSHIT!! Tobacco, Alcohol & Porn are a mainstay in this economy.
John Q Public may cut back on a lot of shit, but he's always going to have the ability to get drunk, beat his meat and have a smoke afterword.

Shit, Blue....don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel!:)

[Hell Puppy]

Historically porn is pretty recession proof. Delivery medium shouldn't matter. $5 for Penthouse or Hustler gets you a 3 day trial, maybe save off some stuff to spank to later. $20-30 for a DVD makes a paysite join look like a no brainer as you get a month of all you can spank for same price and a hell of a lot more variety.

Blue got it right, the average Joe on the street does't prioritize his expenses logically, certain entertainment expenses will be made in front of anything else.

Dont believe me? How many run down rotting house trailers have you ever seen WITHOUT a satellite dish or cable TV?

[tony404]

The whole recession proof thing was for bars and porn shops not the net. I think gas goes up to 4 bucks a gallon we are going to take a hit. You dont need new porn to jack off and as much as he may want it,if the credit card is maxed and the check account to dry because he had to pay $120 to fill up his truck to go to work. It aint going to happen.

[softball]

This is a no brainer. This business is not recession proof. I am working much harder to maintain a good income. As are most. If anyone tells you business is rockin at the moment they are either very lucky or, most likely, full of shit. The good thing about recessions, however, is that they end.
Porn has been in a "recession" since 9/11 when everything changed. Before that it was raining money and anyone with a web page was rolling in cash. Then it settled down into a "regular" business and most of the shady characters "retired" or decided to go "mainstream".
Like any other business, there are those who are rich and those who are poor and everything in between. But if you bury your head in the sand and think you can ride out this recession with the same old same old, you also prolly don't have a plan b.

[softball]

Historically porn (http://www.americanpornmaster.com/pornotube/pornotube.htm) is pretty recession proof.
No offense, HP, but how do you know this?

[Hell Puppy]

The whole recession proof thing was for bars and porn shops not the net. I think gas goes up to 4 bucks a gallon we are going to take a hit. You dont need new porn to jack off and as much as he may want it,if the credit card is maxed and the check account to dry because he had to pay $120 to fill up his truck to go to work. It aint going to happen.

What works against us is the economic system. You're right we're overly dependent on credit cards and in a crunch those do max out. Now what you'll see is free porn sites boom, but the conversions really go to shit.

I would be slightly concerned about internet access, but I actually think most people who have it and are used to it give up their land line telephone before they give up internet. You can dump a land line in favor of voip easily right now.

Use something like I do with tmo's hotspot@home service and even my cellphone voice calls and SMSs goes thru my internet router when i'm at home. now not only does that mean i have 5 bars even in my basement, but those calls have unlimited minutes regardless of the time of day or night.

my point there is there are ways to use the internet to SAVE money in other places. drop HBO and just grab your favorite premium programming off of torrents or newsgroups for instance.

there's an opportunity that gets created in these scenarios. the opportunity is for discounters. i would think a recession might actually be catalyst to reduce subscription costs to many sites, that in turn could turn internet porn's economic system upside down. that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing as i consider it broken as is, and i have for years.

[juliansosa]

Do you mean the one that happened in 2001 after 9/11?

[MRock]

Sell to the Europeans :okthumb: You be ok. Jill has always sold to them better anyway ... not sure why :scratchin

[EmporerEJ]

It's been my experience that the adult business excells in a recession, and ESPECIALLY when people are unemployed.
It was true in all 4 of my video stores for 9 years, and it's been true in the online adult biz.

Idle "hands," and busy minds are good for business.

[tony404]

It's been my experience that the adult business excells in a recession, and ESPECIALLY when people are unemployed.
It was true in all 4 of my video stores for 9 years, and it's been true in the online adult biz.

Idle "hands," and busy minds are good for business.

idle hands with no money are worthless also tube sites have made getting your porn fix very easy to do.Not like p2p's or newsgroups where you need a little no how and Im noticing a new trend started in dec and got one today charge back months old charges and they were in the site a shit load of times. I have a feeling those are going to rise. If its a blood bath that will be good for the survivors.

[Forest]

I dont think porn is recession proof but i do believe it is recession resistant. As it is an impulse buy people dont think about what they are spending as a whole on impulse buys like the do budgeted stuff.

2cents

[EmporerEJ]

idle hands with no money are worthless also tube sites have made getting your porn fix very easy to do.Not like p2p's or newsgroups where you need a little no how and Im noticing a new trend started in dec and got one today charge back months old charges and they were in the site a shit load of times. I have a feeling those are going to rise. If its a blood bath that will be good for the survivors.

While I have little experience with today's online subscription model (Only from 1997-2000,) I have extensive, and authoritative experience with video rentals from 1985-1994. And that is my experience with "hard times." (which were MUCH worse, than anyhting we've seen today.
The closest comparison today is video rentals-subscription sites. However, if you throw in the dynamic of the "free You Tube" sex, I can see how it would be affected.

All it tells me is the subscription site model is in danger of serious failure.
Just like Buggy whip manufacturing, when cars came along.
I would think the personal "web girl" sites would be effected very little.

[softball]

While I have little experience with today's online subscription model (Only from 1997-2000,) I have extensive, and authoritative experience with video rentals from 1985-1994. And that is my experience with "hard times." (which were MUCH worse, than anyhting we've seen today.
The closest comparison today is video rentals-subscription sites. However, if you throw in the dynamic of the "free You Tube" sex, I can see how it would be affected.

All it tells me is the subscription site model is in danger of serious failure.
Just like Buggy whip manufacturing, when cars came along.
I would think the personal "web girl" sites would be effected very little.

There is a huge difference between then and now. Back then, there was no war draining the US budget. Back then, there was no fear of terrorism. Back then, there was still hope. Now it is a whole new ball game. But like I said, it will change. It always does.
However, you have been pounding your buggy whip drum for years and it still has not happened. The subscription model has been around for a century or more, so I see no reason to believe that it will die like typewriters or dial phones.
It is a fundamental business model that works for everything from mobile phones to cable providers to leasing a car. So why you think the sky is falling on this particular model is beyond me. Some may have to rethink how they deliver and/or present it, but the concept is intact.

[Rcourt64]

BULLFUCKINSHIT!! Tobacco, Alcohol & Porn are a mainstay in this economy.

tobacco? ..alcohol? ..porn? ..A MAINSTAY???? :blink: ... HAHAHAHAHA :bustingup
Ya well, I'd say that yes, ...Most forms of self indulgent "Addictions" usually become daily routines inside societies average lifestyles.
But if you wanna call them mainstays? ...uhhh ya sure, ok :huh: LOL.

John Q Public may cut back on a lot of shit, but he's always going to have the ability to get drunk, beat his meat and have a smoke afterword.

True, but remember that during hard times, he'll be drinking the 3.99 six pack of schlitz and beating his meat to all the FREE PORN he can snag, "if & when he can keep his Internet service up n running" and smoking the shit weed cuz he can't afford quality smoke.

Addictions don't die due to hard times. but we learn to economize with cheaper forms to fulfill our addicted habits. And since those are pretty much the ONLY forms of addiction still legal inside the United States they all can be found very easily and cheaply through out this nation. "like in every corner MOM & POP Store."



another newb county heard from


Ya ok.....:hmm: Dinners ready piss ass

http://codgus.com/images/ostridge.jpg

[Sexyteaser]

I think the effects may already be seen there is a lot of people looking for work which implies some companies have already downsized and law suits are cranking up in this business as well so it seems a lot of people are done letting others screw them over.

I think we will see some consolidation and as the cost and risks increase with the hard times ahead a lot of people and companies will probably not be able to stay afloat.

[Hell Puppy]

I think the effects may already be seen there is a lot of people looking for work which implies some companies have already downsized and law suits are cranking up in this business as well so it seems a lot of people are done letting others screw them over.

I think we will see some consolidation and as the cost and risks increase with the hard times ahead a lot of people and companies will probably not be able to stay afloat.

This would be and will be happening regardless of any recession. It's part of the maturation process of any industry. We're going thru a consolidation and weed out period.

Margins are getting tighter and not much market for people looking for huge pay checks to do nothing but talk to other employees on the boards all day and answer the occasional client email.

[softball]

This would be and will be happening regardless of any recession. It's part of the maturation process of any industry. We're going thru a consolidation and weed out period.

Margins are getting tighter and not much market for people looking for huge pay checks to do nothing but talk to other employees on the boards all day and answer the occasional client email.

so this is not affecting our business, hp?
Also, you did not respond to my earlier query about your source of adult prosperity in a recession.

[EmporerEJ]

There is a huge difference between then and now. Back then, there was no war draining the US budget. Back then, there was no fear of terrorism. Back then, there was still hope. Now it is a whole new ball game. But like I said, it will change. It always does.
However, you have been pounding your buggy whip drum for years and it still has not happened. The subscription model has been around for a century or more, so I see no reason to believe that it will die like typewriters or dial phones.
It is a fundamental business model that works for everything from mobile phones to cable providers to leasing a car. So why you think the sky is falling on this particular model is beyond me. Some may have to rethink how they deliver and/or present it, but the concept is intact.

As usual, you try to be condescending in your reply. But since you aren't being completely boorish, I will answer your response.
War draining Budget? Irrelevant to the man on the street. It really hasn't influenced the average guy, and despite what you think you see in the media, the regular people just don't care. The only place it touches them is in the higher cost of gas, which is actually a boon for the online industry, if anything.
The man on the street also doesn't "fear" terrorism. I live within the "kill radius" of Three mile island, as well as peach bottom nuclear power plant, and haven't heard anyone mention it in reference to "terrorism."

In fact, the biggest scandal there (peach bottom) was the firing of the entire security company because of their sleeping on duty. That's "how worried" they are about terrorism.

And if you bothered to read the entire thread, you would have noted I wasn't the one saying the subscription model was "failing." But I do think there is a tidal wave coming, beyond all the free x tube sites.
Once the movie boys dump their old content, there will be a flood of cheap 'n ' ez content around. And will all be "new" to this generation.

I'm not worried, as my business model has nothing to do with the subscription model. We'll get by.

[softball]

irrelevant to the man on the street.
Not for long. What you fail to realize is that the price of gas is just the obvious manifestation of this oil crisis. Plastic has increased by a huge amount. A garbage can that cost twenty bucks now costs thirty and that filters through every walk of life, including, I am sure your business. I only mention you because you have been pounding this drum for years and nothing has changed. Your prescience has been abysmal in your analysis of this particular issue. The sky has been falling in Peach Bottom (wherever that is) for years. Not around here. My real income has fallen fifty percent in three years, yet my monthly income is still growing. But that is beyond my control and has been hammered by the falling dollar. However, I still live a very good life and travel three or four months a year and can still afford the insurance on my old sports car and live in an amazing place that I never dreamed I would be able to afford. So I say this only to make the point that I think you are wrong in your assessment of the future. However, I don't dismiss your acumen, because God knows you could be right and my bets are hedged in bricks and mortar.

[softball]

and btw, you should be worried as anyone in retail with any sense is. You can't swim against the market when you have a non essential item aimed at the masses. You ain't selling Lambos.

[KevinG]

Wow. Great thread.

In general, I agree with Forest that this business is recession resistant. My business is rolling along. All of these areas are either up or steady for me, and nothing is down:

B2B side: Web Development, SEO & Consulting, Traffic development - all doing good.

B2C side: Burning Angel, Joanna Angel, Cigar Glamour - all sites have subscriptions up.

Tobacco (since it was mentioned) - Referral sales for Cigar Review are up. Keep in mind too that premium handmade cigars are more of a luxury product than an addiction, like cigarettes.

The only thing that I have heard is down a little is advertising spending on the B2B side in the adult online business, but that was just from one person.

[boobman]

I think its not recession proof but recesion resistant. And porn IS a commodity no doubht bout it.

[gonzo]

picposts tgps tube sites free porn. waaah wahhh. everyone has been complaining about it for years yet how many new programs/sites do you see popping up daily?
and before you start hanging it all off on pornotube tell me the last time you've been over there and actually looked at that site?

get back to me after you have.
work smarter not harder.
ree shit is here to stay. you can make a meal out of free samples at costco yet how many people do you see leaving there with buggys full of shit?

[gonzo]

I think your both right. the subscription market is just in need of repair. we are a business that relies on 15 minutes of entertainment and the bulk of the income relies on people forgetting or being too lazy.

[bluemoney]

picposts tgps tube sites free porn. waaah wahhh. everyone has been complaining about it for years yet how many new programs/sites do you see popping up daily?
and before you start hanging it all off on pornotube tell me the last time you've been over there and actually looked at that site?

get back to me after you have.
work smarter not harder.
ree shit is here to stay. you can make a meal out of free samples at costco yet how many people do you see leaving there with buggys full of shit?
"Fuckin A" :okthumb:

[Hammer]

Guys will cut back on tobacco and alcohol before they cut back on porn.

[bluemoney]

Guys will cut back on tobacco and alcohol before they cut back on porn.
That works for me.

[gonzo]

Wow. Great thread.

In general, I agree with Forest that this business is recession resistant. My business is rolling along. All of these areas are either up or steady for me, and nothing is down:

B2B side: Web Development, SEO & Consulting, Traffic development - all doing good.

B2C side: Burning Angel, Joanna Angel, Cigar Glamour - all sites have subscriptions up.

Tobacco (since it was mentioned) - Referral sales for Cigar Review are up. Keep in mind too that premium handmade cigars are more of a luxury product than an addiction, like cigarettes.

The only thing that I have heard is down a little is advertising spending on the B2B side in the adult online business, but that was just from one person.
Board business is hard work. Posting bullshit and fake drama has run its course. AP knows who to call when they want the straight scoop.

[tony404]

picposts tgps tube sites free porn. waaah wahhh. everyone has been complaining about it for years yet how many new programs/sites do you see popping up daily?
and before you start hanging it all off on pornotube tell me the last time you've been over there and actually looked at that site?

get back to me after you have.
work smarter not harder.
ree shit is here to stay. you can make a meal out of free samples at costco yet how many people do you see leaving there with buggys full of shit?

Says the man who doesnt depend on site memberships to pay his mortgage. lol

[softball]

Board business is hard work. Posting bullshit and fake drama has run its course. AP knows who to call when they want the straight scoop.
Drama has run its course I agree. Tube sites are as scarey as tgp's were in the day. It still all depends on your USP as it did then, as it does now, and as it always shall.

[tony404]

Drama has run its course I agree. Tube sites are as scarey as tgp's were in the day. It still all depends on your USP as it did then, as it does now, and as it always shall.

tubes and tgps are two completely different things. 15 pics in gallery against 30 min movies, not even in the same ball park.

[softball]

tubes and tgps are two completely different things. 15 pics in gallery against 30 min movies, not even in the same ball park.

I have no idea how long you have been in this biz, but a gallery of 15 to 30 pics in 2001 was very formidable. Combine that with "The Hun" and you were up against some stiff competition. So I have to disagree.

[tony404]

I have no idea how long you have been in this biz, but a gallery of 15 to 30 pics in 2001 was very formidable. Combine that with "The Hun" and you were up against some stiff competition. So I have to disagree.

since 2000 and you cant compare it to full scenes. 15 pics is not a full gallery.

[softball]

since 2000 and you cant compare it to full scenes. 15 pics is not a full gallery.
You may be right but it is what we have to deal with and it is the same now as it was then. Back then I could get way more than 15 free pics with minimal effort. I stand by what I said earlier.

[Hammer]

I agree with Tony404. TGPs never really were that much of a problem IMO, because we just started focusing on pushing the video aspect of the sites and since most surfers would rather jerk off to a video than to some pics, we could show them plenty of free pics and still make the sale if the pay site was video heavy.

The problem with Tube sites is now the only reason someone would have to join a video based site is because the quality is higher and that's a harder sell, IMO.

The only thing a surfer really needs to pay for now is webcams and fortunately the cam companies are smart and have actually begun limiting the time a surfer can chat for free rather than increasing it.

[Rcourt64]

The only thing a surfer really needs to pay for now is webcams and fortunately the cam companies are smart and have actually begun limiting the time a surfer can chat for free rather than increasing it.

Any form of interactive live program will always be successful especially if it's sexually based :wankit:

[RawAlex]

let's see... recession? Hmmm.

At this point, the unemployment rate is still pretty low. People are still working. Obviously, if the housing thing becomes a bigger issue than it already is, there will be all sorts of implications. Potentially the largest issue for online porn would be credit issues, people losing credit cards, and not being able to make online purchases. We are still very dependant on credit cards to make this business go.

The upsides? Well, if unemployment goes up, there is a potential that more models will become available and willing to do porn for cash. We could also see an increase in online business as guys stop being able to afford $300 or more for a night at the titty bar, replaced with a $5 download of a porn movie or a $25 a month membership to a site.

With the US dollar so low, the prices of memberships expressed in US dollars are really low now for European buyers, so much so that American based porn is pretty much a give away. I have noticed a trend in sales that I see more action across almost all programs in the key european hours, and not in the key US hours.

There is money out there, just have to find it.

[softball]

I find it curious how everyone is desperate to climb on the European bandwagon. I have been pounding that drum forever and have always done very well in Europe. Its amazing how a blip in sales brings on yet another "new wave" of marketing genius. As for the analysis, I don't quite agree. This "housing thing" is huge. A whole lot of people have been living way beyond their means for a long time. And the piper is starting to send out invoices in plain red envelopes.

[Toby]

I find it curious how everyone is desperate to climb on the European bandwagon...:waving: been riding that wagon for awhile now. I love those kinky fuckin' Germans. :D

[softball]

:waving: been riding that wagon for awhile now. I love those kinky fuckin' Germans. :D

For me its the English and Italians. But yeah, what you said.

[Buckwheat]

get out the bidness now! for u all burn in hell!

[softball]

get out the bidness now! for u all burn in hell!
Uh huh.....I heard that five years ago....and before that...BW, you gotta get some original material. Much as I think you are an astute gentlemen, you do fall flat. And this be it, dude.

[helix]

get out the bidness now! for u all burn in hell!
Buckwheat....I am sad to inform you that you died 28 years ago of a heart attack at the ripe old age of 49.
William Thomas, Jr. (March 12, 1931 – October 10, 1980)

don't lay down, you might not get up.

[RawAlex]

I find it curious how everyone is desperate to climb on the European bandwagon. I have been pounding that drum forever and have always done very well in Europe. Its amazing how a blip in sales brings on yet another "new wave" of marketing genius. As for the analysis, I don't quite agree. This "housing thing" is huge. A whole lot of people have been living way beyond their means for a long time. And the piper is starting to send out invoices in plain red envelopes.

I think the difference is now I am seeing this sort of move even on sites and projects that aren't specifically aimed at the euro market. The overall sales are happening more that way naturally. It's funny to think of the US as a low cost provider of anything except the boy king's lies.

[Rcourt64]

"Addiction needs a pacifier."3 Doors Down

[RawAlex]

"Poppa got a brand new bag" - James Brown.

[EmporerEJ]

Oh, and I hate to nit pick, but it SHOULD be:

How will the recession "AFFECT" our industry, not "EFFECT" it.

Had you said: "What EFFECT will the recession have on our industry?"
That would have been Ok......but, you know, you didn't, and it's really been bothering me.

Can't sleep...pacing the floor....the usual.

Don't feel bad, it's a common mistake. It just jumps off the page at me, 'cause I'm anal about those things.


:whistling

[Forest]

Oh, and I hate to nit pick, but it SHOULD be:

How will the recession "AFFECT" our industry, not "EFFECT" it.

Had you said: "What EFFECT will the recession have on our industry?"
That would have been Ok......but, you know, you didn't, and it's really been bothering me.

Can't sleep...pacing the floor....the usual.

Don't feel bad, it's a common mistake. It just jumps off the page at me, 'cause I'm anal about those things.


:whistling

Obsess much?

;)

[EmporerEJ]

Obsess much?

;)

You think I'm bad, you should talk to my brother.
He drives ME nuts.
:waving:

[softball]

I think the difference is now I am seeing this sort of move even on sites and projects that aren't specifically aimed at the euro market. The overall sales are happening more that way naturally. It's funny to think of the US as a low cost provider of anything except the boy king's lies.

i do agree with you. But sad to say, no offense intended, this is old news. I remember going toe to toe with Mike AI, who drifted away when it all went sideways. But I knew I was right then and I know nothing has changed.

[RawAlex]

yeah, it is just something that is way more obvious than it use to be. The European sales had come up across pretty much all programs I deal with (from what I could gather) and now what I am seeing is the US and Canadian sales slipping away. So it isn't so much that the euro sales went up that much, as much as the us sales slipped away and made it easier to see.

US content producers must be thrilled. :)

[Hell Puppy]

tubes and tgps are two completely different things. 15 pics in gallery against 30 min movies, not even in the same ball park.

Where are you seeing 30 minute movies?

[gonzo]

Where are you seeing 30 minute movies?
He might be wearing Paul Markhams glasses.

[RawAlex]

Where are you seeing 30 minute movies?

I have found a number of tube sites with movies ranging from 4 to 15 minutes. Considering that most guys, given material they like can pretty much spank one out in about 10 minutes means that these sites are very poisonous to the business goal of free porn: Selling pay porn.

The very basics of the business is get their dicks hard and don't let them get off until you get their money. Tube sites don't respect that, instead making their living off of selling ad spaces, dating memberships, poker, and PPC spaces. They for the most part don't sell porn - they sell everything else but.

[tony404]

He might be wearing Paul Markhams glasses.

lets see a 20min one http://www.redtube.com/7049
23 min http://www.redtube.com/1636
22min http://www.redtube.com/1632
26 min http://www.redtube.com/6929
36 min http://www.redtube.com/6863
25 min http://www.redtube.com/8086

Look forward to your apology

[gonzo]

Says the man who doesnt depend on site memberships to pay his mortgage. lol

You are partially incorrect about that.
I am an affiliate for several sites that I rely on that make that mortgage payment for me monthly.

And Im pretty sure there I have a few membership sites out there still running with more to come.

The core of this debate is irresponsibile posting of copyrighted material on websites by individuals that do not own it.

Make no mistake Tony. Its THEFT in my book.

If your content is on any site unauthorized I encourage you to file a DMCA complaint to the host. If you need any help doing that I will be happy to walk you thru and I think that there is a form letter we have around here as well as one Alex has posted.

Let me be clear on this Tony... ANY site that has your content is THEFT and you should persue this with great vigor.

Those sites that you posted with 20 minute clips are STEALING if they do not have rights to that content.

This isnt the first time weve seen this done either. I think we saw many cool kids run a membership site from STOLEN CDs. Do a search on the Zoo and see how many of them have bragged about having a CD RIP site in the past.

If you think that I am not sympathetic about this kind of theft in the industry you are wrong and for that I apologize.

No different than Jace's rave buddies bragging about downloading FREE porn instead of paying for it.

This industry has created its own problem. The old way of...free sites are tease and pay sites are to please isnt how I see many webmasters promoting on free sites.

The paysites are the same. I remember Mike AI's old Purecash sites that didnt even show you a bare nipple until you paid.

Now you have morons that give away the full meal on the tour.
I dont know that it will ever end. Quite honestly after spending 10 days with many despirate people looking for a clue makes me think all of this will only get worse.

Remember this is a business that tolerates THEFT to its employees by labeling it with a cute term - shaving.

Make no mistake its THEFT.

[tony404]

You are partially incorrect about that.
I am an affiliate for several sites that I rely on that make that mortgage payment for me monthly.

And Im pretty sure there I have a few membership sites out there still running with more to come.

The core of this debate is irresponsibile posting of copyrighted material on websites by individuals that do not own it.

Make no mistake Tony. Its THEFT in my book.

If your content is on any site unauthorized I encourage you to file a DMCA complaint to the host. If you need any help doing that I will be happy to walk you thru and I think that there is a form letter we have around here as well as one Alex has posted.

Let me be clear on this Tony... ANY site that has your content is THEFT and you should persue this with great vigor.

Those sites that you posted with 20 minute clips are STEALING if they do not have rights to that content.

This isnt the first time weve seen this done either. I think we saw many cool kids run a membership site from STOLEN CDs. Do a search on the Zoo and see how many of them have bragged about having a CD RIP site in the past.

If you think that I am not sympathetic about this kind of theft in the industry you are wrong and for that I apologize.

No different than Jace's rave buddies bragging about downloading FREE porn instead of paying for it.

This industry has created its own problem. The old way of...free sites are tease and pay sites are to please isnt how I see many webmasters promoting on free sites.

The paysites are the same. I remember Mike AI's old Purecash sites that didnt even show you a bare nipple until you paid.

Now you have morons that give away the full meal on the tour.
I dont know that it will ever end. Quite honestly after spending 10 days with many despirate people looking for a clue makes me think all of this will only get worse.

Remember this is a business that tolerates THEFT to its employees by labeling it with a cute term - shaving.

Make no mistake its THEFT.

good points and im sorry i judged you.

[gonzo]

lets see a 20min one http://www.redtube.com/7049
23 min http://www.redtube.com/1636
22min http://www.redtube.com/1632
26 min http://www.redtube.com/6929
36 min http://www.redtube.com/6863
25 min http://www.redtube.com/8086

Look forward to your apology

Ah yes! I there are plenty of sites like this out there.
What to do?

Lets see here first off is that stolen content?
If so whos? And better yet do they give a shit???

Then look all over that page. The ad network is a good place to ask their policy on sites with stolen content. BUT have to figure out is that actually stolen content?

[Querying whois.internic.net][whois.internic.net]Domain names in the .com and .net domains can now be registeredwith many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.netfor detailed information. Domain Name: REDTUBE.COM Registrar: ENOM, INC. Whois Server: whois.enom.com Referral URL: http://www.enom.com Name Server: NS1.CHOOPA.COM Name Server: NS2.CHOOPA.COM Status: ok Updated Date: 10-dec-2007 Creation Date: 07-jan-2006 Expiration Date: 07-jan-2009NOTICE: The expiration date displayed in this record is the date theregistrar's sponsorship of the domain name registration in the registry iscurrently set to expire. This date does not necessarily reflect the expirationdate of the domain name registrant's agreement with the sponsoringregistrar. Users may consult the sponsoring registrar's Whois database toview the registrar's reported date of expiration for this registration. If you are the content owner then you need to complain to the hosting company which is choopa.comOnly problem I see here is determining if this is stolen content and if the owners give a shit.They have to file a DMCA.

[tony404]

Ah yes! I there are plenty of sites like this out there.
What to do?

Lets see here first off is that stolen content?
If so whos? And better yet do they give a shit???

Then look all over that page. The ad network is a good place to ask their policy on sites with stolen content. BUT have to figure out is that actually stolen content?

[Querying whois.internic.net][whois.internic.net]Domain names in the .com and .net domains can now be registeredwith many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.netfor detailed information. Domain Name: REDTUBE.COM Registrar: ENOM, INC. Whois Server: whois.enom.com Referral URL: http://www.enom.com Name Server: NS1.CHOOPA.COM Name Server: NS2.CHOOPA.COM Status: ok Updated Date: 10-dec-2007 Creation Date: 07-jan-2006 Expiration Date: 07-jan-2009NOTICE: The expiration date displayed in this record is the date theregistrar's sponsorship of the domain name registration in the registry iscurrently set to expire. This date does not necessarily reflect the expirationdate of the domain name registrant's agreement with the sponsoringregistrar. Users may consult the sponsoring registrar's Whois database toview the registrar's reported date of expiration for this registration. If you are the content owner then you need to complain to the hosting company which is choopa.comOnly problem I see here is determining if this is stolen content and if the owners give a shit.They have to file a DMCA.

is it stolen content thats too funny.

[EmporerEJ]

Hmmmm.....and now the CDs I kept from BBS days seem so much more valuable.....

[gonzo]

Hmmmm.....and now the CDs I kept from BBS days seem so much more valuable.....

Busty Babes?

[EmporerEJ]

Busty Babes?


Stareware, and a bunch of other "BBS ready" content with full licensing rights....

[Hell Puppy]

Stareware, and a bunch of other "BBS ready" content with full licensing rights....

Giffy Girls!

All those predate the cut off for 2257 as well.

[Hell Puppy]

There are three things that have allowed these things to come to be:

1) User demand -- there is and always be strong demand for free porn and the more you give away and the easier you make it the more people will come.

2) Cheap pipe -- pipe keeps going down. we didn't give away much when a dedicated server with a couple of megabits cost $2500. price went down, we had picposts. price went down some more thumbposts. more? mgp's. Now? tube sites. Anyone wanna bet against DVD rips next?

3) Monetization -- users will share stuff, but someone somewhere has to pay the server bill no matter how much of a bargain the pipe is. some of these guys hanging out in the top 100 of alexa are still paying thru the nose. they aren't doing it for charity, they're making money. The site tony posted as an example had the "usual suspects" for advertisers.

So what do you do?

Hard to fight it, the genie is out of the bottle. They have traffic, someone will ALWAYS be willing to pay for the traffic. Individual copyright holders can certain vigorously enforce their rights. But that is a game of whack-a-mole and a drop in the bucket. There might be some overall action taken by government, ftc or whatnot, but by the time that happens it's irrelevent.

Cant beat it join it? Some have, some more will. Is there a legitimate way to do this? You bet. Same as there was with TGP's. Those who can do it well will make good money due to the traffic. Those who dont will wonder either why they cant get traffic or why they cant pay the bandwidth bill. Or why they are getting their ass sued off. Content producers should be working toward embedded digital watermarks so those who desire to be legitimate for tubes, p2p, etc, can check and see if the copyright holder desires a clip to be broadcast.

Imagine a world where you could electronically tell the difference between trailers and promotional material versus actual content? Wow, I can think of some hellacious business plans for that. For now you can only do it with heavy moderation or restricted posting, lots of manual labor required, but you can run one of these legitimately. YouTube is trying, as are others.

The rest of us have to adapt. There has an always will be free porn. In fact there will always be more and more of it as bandwidth allows. You can easily track this all the way back to the BBS days. So how do you get people to pay when they can have so much for free? You've gotta market and sell WHY they should pay. Exclusive content, friendly well organized UI, no malware or intrusive ads, and quality quality quality. The big things these tube sites can NEVER offer is full on high-def quality. You have to find a way to give users a taste of that without giving away the farm to make them want more quality and less of the jerky flash crap from the tubes.

Also realize you can NEVER force anyone to buy something. There are certain people in this world who have more time than money and will never pay for porn. This is probably 90%+ of the people who visit your sites. You have to get over there, nothing you'll ever do to convert those, let 'em go, filter 'em.

Now if I come across here as being in favor of tube sites and free porn, I'm not. I'd love nothing more than a world where you cant see a nipple without a credit card. But I live in reality. We've been dealing with more and more free porn for 20+ years going back to the BBS days. I've been making money selling it that entire time. You've gotta adapt.

[tony404]

There are three things that have allowed these things to come to be:

1) User demand -- there is and always be strong demand for free porn and the more you give away and the easier you make it the more people will come.

2) Cheap pipe -- pipe keeps going down. we didn't give away much when a dedicated server with a couple of megabits cost $2500. price went down, we had picposts. price went down some more thumbposts. more? mgp's. Now? tube sites. Anyone wanna bet against DVD rips next?

3) Monetization -- users will share stuff, but someone somewhere has to pay the server bill no matter how much of a bargain the pipe is. some of these guys hanging out in the top 100 of alexa are still paying thru the nose. they aren't doing it for charity, they're making money. The site tony posted as an example had the "usual suspects" for advertisers.

So what do you do?

Hard to fight it, the genie is out of the bottle. They have traffic, someone will ALWAYS be willing to pay for the traffic. Individual copyright holders can certain vigorously enforce their rights. But that is a game of whack-a-mole and a drop in the bucket. There might be some overall action taken by government, ftc or whatnot, but by the time that happens it's irrelevent.

Cant beat it join it? Some have, some more will. Is there a legitimate way to do this? You bet. Same as there was with TGP's. Those who can do it well will make good money due to the traffic. Those who dont will wonder either why they cant get traffic or why they cant pay the bandwidth bill. Or why they are getting their ass sued off. Content producers should be working toward embedded digital watermarks so those who desire to be legitimate for tubes, p2p, etc, can check and see if the copyright holder desires a clip to be broadcast.

Imagine a world where you could electronically tell the difference between trailers and promotional material versus actual content? Wow, I can think of some hellacious business plans for that. For now you can only do it with heavy moderation or restricted posting, lots of manual labor required, but you can run one of these legitimately. YouTube is trying, as are others.

The rest of us have to adapt. There has an always will be free porn. In fact there will always be more and more of it as bandwidth allows. You can easily track this all the way back to the BBS days. So how do you get people to pay when they can have so much for free? You've gotta market and sell WHY they should pay. Exclusive content, friendly well organized UI, no malware or intrusive ads, and quality quality quality. The big things these tube sites can NEVER offer is full on high-def quality. You have to find a way to give users a taste of that without giving away the farm to make them want more quality and less of the jerky flash crap from the tubes.

Also realize you can NEVER force anyone to buy something. There are certain people in this world who have more time than money and will never pay for porn. This is probably 90%+ of the people who visit your sites. You have to get over there, nothing you'll ever do to convert those, let 'em go, filter 'em.

Now if I come across here as being in favor of tube sites and free porn, I'm not. I'd love nothing more than a world where you cant see a nipple without a credit card. But I live in reality. We've been dealing with more and more free porn for 20+ years going back to the BBS days. I've been making money selling it that entire time. You've gotta adapt.

How do you adapt to a site full of 15 min+ scenes for free that's just a click away?
People forget 60% percent of the video experience is sound. Thats why youtube does so well, the picture may suck but the sound is good. Same with adult tubes. The thing that may bring the house of cards down is the goldman suit. Ron Goldman's father owns the rights to the OJ book, BT's have been giving it away freely. They are suing the advertisers not the BT who are offshore. His lawyer said they want to give away they can do it from the poor house. They win, it sets precedent our industry can run with that.
Let me share with you my prediction of the future of the industry if everyone goes tube crazy.
Governments will start banning online porn to protect the children. Now you will say there's a shitload out there now for free. Yes there is but to the non tech savy its not a clear picture but a tube site full of full scenes is a very clear picture to the nontech savy. Have some prime minister or senator click and see anal fisting for free.
The problem with this industry is its very short sighted and if my prediction goes down the industry will have the balls to say, why are they picking on us? lol

[Hell Puppy]

How do you adapt to a site full of 15 min+ scenes for free that's just a click away?
People forget 60% percent of the video experience is sound. Thats why youtube does so well, the picture may suck but the sound is good. Same with adult tubes. The thing that may bring the house of cards down is the goldman suit. Ron Goldman's father owns the rights to the OJ book, BT's have been giving it away freely. They are suing the advertisers not the BT who are offshore. His lawyer said they want to give away they can do it from the poor house. They win, it sets precedent our industry can run with that.
Let me share with you my prediction of the future of the industry if everyone goes tube crazy.
Governments will start banning online porn to protect the children. Now you will say there's a shitload out there now for free. Yes there is but to the non tech savy its not a clear picture but a tube site full of full scenes is a very clear picture to the nontech savy. Have some prime minister or senator click and see anal fisting for free.
The problem with this industry is its very short sighted and if my prediction goes down the industry will have the balls to say, why are they picking on us? lol


I have a slightly different prediction.

Government intervention is a perpetual threat. I'm old enough and have been doing this long enough that it first started for me with Meese. Problem is the governments cant react quickly enough. And with the internet, it'll be just like gambling, even if clearly against current laws, you've got offshoring to fight.

My prediction?

Sponsors will turn more to generating their own traffic, being very selective about affiliates they accept, and it'll start to turn the landscape on it's ear a bit. Shrinking margins mean little room to support a needy affiliate who sends 2 sales a month. I see a lot of people having to go get more traditional jobs.

What does that mean for tubes? Everyone I know of in the adult arena that isn't already owned by one of the big companies is for sale. I see sponsors buying them up, cleaning them up and using them for a traffic source.

[RawAlex]

Hell Puppy, everyone said the same things about TGPS about a year after they were launched. It is true that many of the bigger TGPs have been bought out and merged, but it would appear than many of them now are making their money selling spots for listings and not by being great traffic generators.

The other thing is the effects of tube sites. Many people running these tube sites have come to realize that they are a VERY marginal business, with huge bandwidth, maintenance, and potential legal expenses, with somewhat limited income potential, often becasue they have given away so much content that the surfers just don't buy porn. When you see tube sites getting sold, it is because the business model is tough and not working in many cases, not because of their big net incomes.

Unlike mainstream, there isn't as much money in porn sites getting millions of unpaying visitors. There just isn't enough people in porn stupid enough to pay mill rate to be on a pornsite, everything in porn is tuned to production and results. There are very, very few tube sites out there showing that they can actually make decent ROI right now, and that is what is keeping them from being as attractive to the programs.

Tube sites have proven they can get traffic, but they have not proven they can make money. Traffic stats are only there for the owner to masturbate over. Money makes the world go around.

[tony404]

I have a slightly different prediction.

Government intervention is a perpetual threat. I'm old enough and have been doing this long enough that it first started for me with Meese. Problem is the governments cant react quickly enough. And with the internet, it'll be just like gambling, even if clearly against current laws, you've got offshoring to fight.

My prediction?

Sponsors will turn more to generating their own traffic, being very selective about affiliates they accept, and it'll start to turn the landscape on it's ear a bit. Shrinking margins mean little room to support a needy affiliate who sends 2 sales a month. I see a lot of people having to go get more traditional jobs.

What does that mean for tubes? Everyone I know of in the adult arena that isn't already owned by one of the big companies is for sale. I see sponsors buying them up, cleaning them up and using them for a traffic source.

I wasnt clear, Im not thinking of just America, Im thinking of other governments. Germany wants age verification and if your wind up in their sights now, you get a letter and your lawyer recommends not to go visit there. Australia is trying to filter it out. Im thinking places you would never imagine saying no more.Besides being banned if its also filtered out, doesnt matter where you go, your done pretty much online.
BT's, news groups, tgp's,etc a ton of free porn but doesnt send a message to the nontech savvy as a tube site.

[tony404]

On another board they are talking about tubes and here is something to ponder
"I'm staring at 14k hits from the biggest one with 0 signups.

Those are hits to a usually very nicely converting adult site.

The traffic going to other things does ok.

Take from that what you will."

[gonzo]

On another board they are talking about tubes and here is something to ponder
"I'm staring at 14k hits from the biggest one with 0 signups.

Those are hits to a usually very nicely converting adult site.

The traffic going to other things does ok.

Take from that what you will."

No different than sending traffic from google's adwords program to someone elses revshare program. You will break even at best if you are only getting 50%.

PPS isnt even worth the time.

And breaking even is over the longhaul.

Tube sites are no different. Youd better have something your getting paid 100% of recurs to make any money.

If you look at it month to month your right. Both are a huge loss.

[Hell Puppy]

No different than sending traffic from google's adwords program to someone elses revshare program. You will break even at best if you are only getting 50%.

PPS isnt even worth the time.

And breaking even is over the longhaul.

Tube sites are no different. Youd better have something your getting paid 100% of recurs to make any money.

If you look at it month to month your right. Both are a huge loss.

Anyone bought a spot on The Hun or any other big TGP lately and wanna share those numbers?

[gonzo]

Anyone bought a spot on The Hun or any other big TGP lately and wanna share those numbers?

KevinG was telling me about a Hun story in Vegas.

[KevinG]

KevinG was telling me about a Hun story in Vegas.

Here's the scoop on that.

As you know, Joanna Angel is one of my top clients and I work on her solo girl site and other sites she owns as an independent contractor.

She also has an office with employees on staff.

While I do spend some resources promoting with free sites with fair results, I have written off TGPs a long time ago.

However, one of the employees was successful at getting a gallery placed on The Hun.

In 2 days we got 175,000 unique visitors from The Hun.

Anyone want to guess how many sign-ups we got?

(Gonzo -don't answer.)

[EmporerEJ]

Giffy Girls!

All those predate the cut off for 2257 as well.

you betcha...

[EmporerEJ]

Here's the scoop on that.

As you know, Joanna Angel is one of my top clients and I work on her solo girl site and other sites she owns as an independent contractor.

She also has an office with employees on staff.

While I do spend some resources promoting with free sites with fair results, I have written off TGPs a long time ago.

However, one of the employees was successful at getting a gallery placed on The Hun.

In 2 days we got 175,000 unique visitors from The Hun.

Anyone want to guess how many sign-ups we got?

(Gonzo -don't answer.)

I'm gonna go for less than 10?

[KevinG]

Less than 10 is correct.

Anyone want to see if they can get closer than that?

[Toby]

Ummm, ZERO?

[KevinG]

Ummm, ZERO?

Ding ding ding!

We have a winner!

Tell him what he's won Gonzo.

[gonzo]

Ding ding ding!

We have a winner!

Tell him what he's won Gonzo.

Congradulations Toby!
You've won a FREE traffic consultation with Joanna Angel!!!

Hahahaha

[Toby]

Congradulations Toby!
You've won a FREE traffic consultation with Joanna Angel!!!

Hahahaha
I'll collect at Cybernet in June. ;)

[KevinG]

Congradulations Toby!
You've won a FREE traffic consultation with Joanna Angel!!!

Hahahaha

LMAO!

[EmporerEJ]

So, are ANY of you content guys making any money?

[EmporerEJ]

Less than 10 is correct.

Anyone want to see if they can get closer than that?

I was gonna guess zero......but I didn't want to win another prize from Gonzo, and I thought it might be too depressing to say Zero.

[KevinG]

So, are ANY of you content guys making any money?

Yes.

[bluemoney]

I have one lady I’ve been promoting for quite sometime that does okay on The Hun. Over a (3) day period on my last accepted gallery I pulled in about (8) sales.

I know that’s not a huge number by many peoples standards, but I don’t think it’s too bad for about an hours worth of work.

[gonzo]

I'll collect at Cybernet in June. ;)

MITCHELL BROTHERS!!!

[EmporerEJ]

Yes.

Can you expand on that?
The information overload in your response is just overwhelming....

:blink:

[KevinG]

Can you expand on that?
The information overload in your response is just overwhelming....

:blink:

Reminding you of my first response to this thread:

Wow. Great thread.

In general, I agree with Forest that this business is recession resistant. My business is rolling along. All of these areas are either up or steady for me, and nothing is down:

B2B side: Web Development, SEO & Consulting, Traffic development - all doing good.

B2C side: Burning Angel, Joanna Angel, Cigar Glamour - all sites have subscriptions up.

Tobacco (since it was mentioned) - Referral sales for Cigar Review are up. Keep in mind too that premium handmade cigars are more of a luxury product than an addiction, like cigarettes.

The only thing that I have heard is down a little is advertising spending on the B2B side in the adult online business, but that was just from one person.

I usually don't report more specifics than that except to the IRS.

[Toby]

So, are ANY of you content guys making any money?
I don't disclose figures publicly, so let me answer that like this...

My monthly net income is more than many of the amateur sites that I promote.

[softball]

So, are ANY of you content guys making any money?

I would assume that producing content is profitable. There are a lot of people doing it. I am sure they don't produce content as a hobby. I know I do it as a business.

[Hell Puppy]

So, are ANY of you content guys making any money?

I supplement my income by picking up alumninum cans.

[Hell Puppy]

I have one lady I’ve been promoting for quite sometime that does okay on The Hun. Over a (3) day period on my last accepted gallery I pulled in about (8) sales.

I know that’s not a huge number by many peoples standards, but I don’t think it’s too bad for about an hours worth of work.

That's not bad at all actually. Is that on a paid pipe though?

[bluemoney]

That's not bad at all actually. Is that on a paid pipe though?
Nope! Just a gallery submitted the old fashion way using sponsor content on a "Hun Approved" free host.

I think Mr.Review likes plain simple galleries the best, and I'm the very definition of plain and simple :D

PS. Just so we're clear again, I still collect all the cans east of Walnut Grove right?

[RawAlex]

I was looking for something the other day and came across my full set of Busty Babes (including the Busty Babes Go Wild and the really, really bad gay CDs). I am figuring I am going to have to transfer them off CD because pretty soon we won't have anything to read them with.

[EmporerEJ]

I was looking for something the other day and came across my full set of Busty Babes (including the Busty Babes Go Wild and the really, really bad gay CDs). I am figuring I am going to have to transfer them off CD because pretty soon we won't have anything to read them with.

We plan on keeping a vintage machine around, on the network, for just such an Occasion...


I still have an MFM drive somewhere...

[Hell Puppy]

Nope! Just a gallery submitted the old fashion way using sponsor content on a "Hun Approved" free host.

I think Mr.Review likes plain simple galleries the best, and I'm the very definition of plain and simple :D

PS. Just so we're clear again, I still collect all the cans east of Walnut Grove right?

Aha! Freehost!

The Hun actually sends enough traffic to nudge paid hosting up a tier. Can make getting listed a money losing proposition.

[bluemoney]

Aha! Freehost!

The Hun actually sends enough traffic to nudge paid hosting up a tier. Can make getting listed a money losing proposition.
You are correct sir :okthumb:

[softball]

This was an interesting thread........

[EmporerEJ]

Wonder what happened to that Kevin G Guy?

[softball]

Wonder what happened to that Kevin G Guy?

well, you could call him up for a free fifteen minute consultation and ask.

[gonzo]

Wonder what happened to that Kevin G Guy?

As an aside.
Kevin is doing quite well and living the life.
His mainstream guess during that time paid off big for him and hes living quite comfortable and making a nice chunk of change.
He changed his focus to mainstream early on and it paid off for him.

:okthumb:

[softball]

As an aside.
Kevin is doing quite well and living the life.
His mainstream guess during that time paid off big for him and hes living quite comfortable and making a nice chunk of change.
He changed his focus to mainstream early on and it paid off for him.

:okthumb:

good....I liked him.