Comcast Traffic Monitoring A Slap In The Face To Net Neutrality

[KevinG]

As we've mentioned before, Comcast does, despite what the company says, limit BitTorrent traffic. The Associated Press recently ran some tests and discovered that, yes, Comcast does throttle BitTorrent traffic. So how can Comcast say it doesn't throttle traffic when in fact it does? The answer is in semantics.

Comcast has previous told Wired News that “we do not block access to any applications,” it does however admit that it uses traffic shaping tools to “manage our network to provide a quality experience for all Comcast subscribers.” In other words, Comcast doesn’t block BitTorrent applications, but it does block BitTorrent traffic.

Now it would seem that the fun doesn’t end there for Comcast subscribers. The EFF reports that Comcast also limits Gnutella traffic and Kevin Kanarski claims that Lotus Notes traffic is similarly choked.

In all three cases Comcast’s limiting technique is quite insidious and would be difficult for the average user to notice. Comcast’s network monitoring tools (most likely Sandvine) sits between your connection and the outside world and sends reset packets to both both ends, disrupting your connection. From the the end user point of view it will merely look like your connection is slow. Very, very slow.

This is more or less the two-tiered internet that net neutrality proponents have long warned about. As the EFF writes:

http://blog.wired.com/monkeybites/2007/10/comcast-traffic.html

While I am not a proponent of illegal file sharing, I think Comcast should stay the heck out of it.

I use Comcast and have been mostly satisfied with their service for the last 5 years.

It does seems like things have slowed down when I am uploading a lot of content recently, plus I was blocked from a client's site recently and tracked it back to Comcast blocking traffic.

I was able to get to the client's site after contacting the host and having them re-route traffic.

That's pretty obnoxious.

[Jace]

I use comcast and I am also part of two bittorrent networks, one that shares and distributes unsigned electronic music for the artists, and the other is for open source software sharing

I am on comcast, and I can't run my bittorrent client 24/7 anymore like I used to, if I do run it all the time I notice my speeds decrease drastically and then my internet will be cut off every 20-30 minutes for 2-3 minutes at a time

they are definitely fucking with me big time, and I am doing nothing illegal whatsoever

I think it is horribly wrong for a ISP to throttle connections due to a certain type of traffic they detect, even if majority of that type of traffic is used for illegal purposes

[Toby]

...I think it is horribly wrong for a ISP to throttle connections due to a certain type of traffic they detect, even if majority of that type of traffic is used for illegal purposesYet another case of guilty until proven innocent.

When did that fundamental concept get reversed. Our founding fathers would be appalled.

[TheEnforcer]

Having my bandwidth throttled for doing something that is not illegal would piss me off royally.

[Jace]

Having my bandwidth throttled for doing something that is not illegal would piss me off royally.

yeah, and from what I am reading there isn't much I can do about it

it is comcast policy

and god forbid I switch internet and get dsl around here, which comes at a blazing fast speed of like 1.5 Mbps when I am getting 12Mbps now

[RawAlex]

Jace, no matter the legality of the content you are moving via bittorrent, the protocol in and of itself is abusive of the ISP's network. Your computer is used as a node for the commercial (and non commercial) distribution of software and music. Much of your bandwidth in a day may be used to do so.

P2P programs (plus things like Skype and Joost) are entirely dependant on leeching free bandwidth from ISPs to operate. The ISPs have to keep buying more and more bandwidth to keep up with customer demand, but really that customer demand is as much to keep these programs in operation as they are for uses limited to the end user.

You may not entirely understand, but systems like skype can use a huge amount of your bandwidth even when you aren't actively talking on the skype phone. Other calls get routed through you system, and if bandwidth permits, you can often be turned into a mini-super node that handled parts of hundreds of calls.

If you are sharing legal files, then just set up a server, pay the bandwidth and share your files. You don't want to do that because it would cost too much, right? Well, guess what... your ISP is paying for it when you use P2P. If you can't afford to do it, why should they have to pay to support it?

[Jace]

I totally understand how it works and why they don't want it, but why punish everyone?

my bittorrent client is set to NEVER get above 20kb/sec upload (bandwidth going out), and while I understand the technical nature of why they are doing what they are doing, I don't agree with lumping everyone into one bunch and punishing us all

as bittorrent grows this is going to become a hot topic for sure, i can see more isp's following in comcasts' footsteps

on the other end of the spectrum I think what they are doing is awesome in the fight against piracy, they definitely got me shutting down my client and only using it when I have to

[KevinG]

Here's an update.

Comcast says it's not blocking content, applications

Comcast said on Monday that file transfers on peer-to-peer networks such as BitTorrent may be delayed by bandwidth management technology, but it denied blocking access to any applications or content.

As the second-largest high-speed Internet provider in the United States with 11 million customers, any move by Comcast to favor or block certain types of content moving over its network would be extremely controversial as it would be seen as flouting "Net neutrality."

Net neutrality is the principle of allowing all content that flows over an Internet service provider's network to be treated equally without any preference. Although it is not law, it is supported by a wide range of pressure groups and businesses concerned that ISPs will start charging to prioritize the delivery of users' content.

The Associated Press reported Friday that it had carried out experiments across the country proving that Comcast prevented some users from uploading content to peer-to-peer networks, including BitTorrent.

Such networks are used by consumers to share large quantities of files such as music, videos and photographs.

Comcast issued a statement on Monday that again refuted allegations that it controls what content flows over its network, but said it manages its bandwidth to provide the best possible experience for its customers.

http://www.news.com/Comcast-says-its-not-blocking-content%2C-applications/2100-1034_3-6214709.html?tag=nefd.top

[RawAlex]

Kevin, you have to read that last sentence very carefully:

"but said it manages its bandwidth to provide the best possible experience for its customers."

A very tacit way of admitting that they use tools to shape the responses, potentially on different ports and types of traffic.

Jace, I think that if you are in a network segment where there are a ton of people running P2P programs, you may be getting roped in with them. The systems in place are likely padding down ALL P2P traffic, and you just happen to have some of it.

Bittorrents attempt to move to mainstream is great, but in the end, distributed distribution is just a way for a company to be able to sell a product cheaper because all the other ISPs are getting dragging into providing bandwidth for nothing.

[Jace]

Jace, I think that if you are in a network segment where there are a ton of people running P2P programs, you may be getting roped in with them. The systems in place are likely padding down ALL P2P traffic, and you just happen to have some of it.


that makes sense, but I doubt where I am has barely anyone else using the cable internet system...there are only 10-12 houses here in the neighborhood, could be businesses up the road though

I had the cable tech come out this morning and I talked with him about it a little bit, he said I shouldn't be seeing anything different for the amount of traffic I have going through, it is only the big abusers that should be seeing the effect

sure enough, he went up and checked my lines on the pole, a fucking animal had chewed through a segment of my cable lines exposing the raw cable and allowing water to get into the lines, causing my internet to act screwy. he thinks the fact that I was on bittorrent at the time was just a coincidence

he just left, I am going to fire it all up again and see what happens

[KevinG]

This thread made me order Cable Guy from Comcast On Demand.

[Jace]

This thread made me order Cable Guy from Comcast On Demand.

that is one thing I miss about cable tv, on demand

but we have a dual turner tivo directv, so we don't really need it

[gonzo]

that makes sense, but I doubt where I am has barely anyone else using the cable internet system...there are only 10-12 houses here in the neighborhood, could be businesses up the road though

I had the cable tech come out this morning and I talked with him about it a little bit, he said I shouldn't be seeing anything different for the amount of traffic I have going through, it is only the big abusers that should be seeing the effect

sure enough, he went up and checked my lines on the pole, a fucking animal had chewed through a segment of my cable lines exposing the raw cable and allowing water to get into the lines, causing my internet to act screwy. he thinks the fact that I was on bittorrent at the time was just a coincidence

he just left, I am going to fire it all up again and see what happens

Did you have Du-wayne come out to your house too?

Comcast sux.

In the end Ive had 10 different techs including Du-wayne who replaced the modem,splitter and amp with comcast gear.

The last tech had a clue. The problem was indeed on the pole.
Comcast replaced the drop. A direct run from the pole to the modem as well as the hub at the Dslam.

Shit had been fucked up for at LEAST a year.

DOS TIP
Fuck opening a ticket with customer service.
Buy some stock and open a complaint with Investor Relations. You will have the real techs in your neighborhood the next day.

[Jace]

Did you have Du-wayne come out to your house too?

Comcast sux.

In the end Ive had 10 different techs including Du-wayne who replaced the modem,splitter and amp with comcast gear.

The last tech had a clue. The problem was indeed on the pole.
Comcast replaced the drop. A direct run from the pole to the modem as well as the hub at the Dslam.

Shit had been fucked up for at LEAST a year.

DOS TIP
Fuck opening a ticket with customer service.
Buy some stock and open a complaint with Investor Relations. You will have the real techs in your neighborhood the next day.

man, I have never had ANY trouble with comcast other than this issue

I always get insane speeds, I am barely ever down, when I call I get someone on the phone instantly and when I say "can i speak with someone higher level" they ALWAYS transfer me....I called last night at 4pm about this issue and they were here at 8:45am this morning

the guy that came this morning replaced the entire junction up on our pole, he was up there a good 2 hours replacing shit

i have never really had a bad experience with comcast, but I know you have constant issues

[KevinG]

I have generally done well with Comcast too. I have had very few problems and when I do they are usually resolved quickly and correctly.