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View Full Version : DirectNics legal rights in relation to its recent actions


sarettah
12-16-2006, 06:51 PM
I just posted this over at the zoo but figured I would share it here too.

Many people on this board have spent the past few days stating that DirectNic, as a registrar, did not have the legal right or authority to take the actions they did. In fact, it has been taken to the point by some that what they did it is in actuality an unconstitutional infringement on Slick’s free speech rights when they apparently arbitrarily shut down Slick’s sites. Further it has been stated that ICANN does not allow Directnic to take the action it did.

None of it is true. Directnic had the authority to take the action it did. It was not required to do all that it did, but it definitely had the right both through U.S. law and their agreement with ICANN.

First some definitions.

According to the U.S. code an electronic communications service means “any service which provides to users the ability to send or receive wire or electronic communications” (US Title 18 section 2510 definitions paragraph 15) (http:// uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t17t20+1102+1++%28%29%2 0%20AND%20%28%2818%29%20ADJ%20USC%29%3ACITE%20AND% 20%28USC%20w%2F10%20%282510%29%29%3ACITE%20%20%20% 20%20%20%20%20%20http:// http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t17t20+1102+1++%28%29%2 0%20AND%20%28%2818%29%20ADJ%20USC%29%3ACITE%20AND% 20%28USC%20w%2F10%20%282510%29%29%3ACITE%20%20%20% 20%20%20%20%20%20). It further defines a remote computing service as the provision to the public of computer storage or processing services by means of an electronic communications system. (US Code 18 section 2711 paragraph 2) (http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t17t20+1126+1++%28%29%2 0%20AND%20%28%2818%29%20ADJ%20USC%29%3ACITE%20AND% 20%28USC%20w%2F10%20%282711%29%29%3ACITE%20%20%20% 20%20%20%20%20%20).

DirectNic, as a registrar, can be considered both an electronic communications service and a remote computing service. It facilitates the sending and receiving of electronic communication because it stores the all-important location of the A record for the DNS system that makes the Internet work. Without this information the DNS system would not be able to locate the name server for a site. It also stores and allows access to the public of its whois database therefore making it an electronic communications system.

US Code Title 42 Chapter 132 subchapter 4 (http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t41t42+7459+21++%28%27c hild%20pornography%27%29%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%2 0%20) states that any electronic communications service or remote computing service is required if it obtains knowledge of facts or circumstances from which any violation of section 2251, 2251A, 2252, 2252A, 2252B, or 2260 of title 18, involving child pornography (as defined in section 2256 of that title), or a violation of section 1466A of that title. Is apparent. It also states that the electronics communications service or remote communications service is not required to investigate the occurrence nor is it required to monitor the services for violations. However, it does clearly state that the electronics communications service or remote computing service may investigate the incident if they so choose:

(d) Limitation of information or material required in report a report under subsection (b)(1) of this section may include additional information or material developed by an electronic communication service or remote computing service, except that the Federal Government may not require the production of such information or material in that report.

The definition of child pornography in US title 2256 is:

8) "child pornography" means any visual depiction, including any photograph, film, video, picture, or computer or computer-generated image or picture, whether made or produced by electronic, mechanical, or other means, of sexually explicit conduct, where -

(A) the production of such visual depiction involves the use of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct;

(B) such visual depiction is a digital image, computer image, or computer-generated image that is, or is indistinguishable from, that of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct;

or

(C) such visual depiction has been created, adapted, or modified to appear that an identifiable minor is engaging in sexually explicit conduct.
US Title 18 section 2256 paragraph 8 (http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t17t20+1003+0++%28%29%2 0%20AND%20%28%2818%29%20ADJ%20USC%29%3ACITE%20AND% 20%28USC%20w%2F10%20%282256%29%29%3ACITE%20%20%20% 20%20%20%20%20%20)
The definition of indistinguishable according to US Title 18 section 2256 is:

(11) the term "indistinguishable" used with respect to a depiction, means virtually indistinguishable, in that the depiction is such that an ordinary person viewing the depiction would conclude that the depiction is of an actual minor engaged in sexually explicit conduct. This definition does not apply to depictions that are drawings, cartoons, sculptures, or paintings depicting minors or adults.
US Title 18 section 2256 paragraph 11 (http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t17t20+1003+0++%28%29%2 0%20AND%20%28%2818%29%20ADJ%20USC%29%3ACITE%20AND% 20%28USC%20w%2F10%20%282256%29%29%3ACITE%20%20%20% 20%20%20%20%20%20)

So, clearly, in the eyes of US law, DirectNic had to make a report if they received a complaint of possible child pornography on a domain that was registered through their service and they were allowed, if they so chose, to make an additional investigation to accompany the report. Failure to make the report could cost them up to $50,000.00. They then further investigated and I imagine their first step was to look at the site in question. From the reaction on this board when all the directnic stuff broke earlier this week, many people posting clearly thought they were looking at actual minors thereby meeting the definition of indistinguishable as outlined above. At that point they attempted to further investigate by requesting proof of age from the domain holder.

Each registrar draws its authority to assign domain names through a registrar agreement with ICANN. In the registration agreement, ICANN outlines the minimum requirements that a registrar must take to be in compliance with the agreement. (ICANN registrar agreement) (” http://www.icann.org/registrars/ra-agreement-17may01.htm”). Within this agreement is 1 section that deals with the registrars business dealings with registrants. Paragrapgh 3.7.7.11 states that “The Registered Name Holder shall agree that its registration of the Registered Name shall be subject to suspension,
cancellation, or transfer pursuant to any ICANN adopted specification or policy, or pursuant to any registrar or registry procedure not inconsistent with an ICANN adopted specification or policy".

ICANN clearly indicates that the registrar is allowed to adopt any procedures they want regarding cancellation as long as they are not inconsistent with ICANN’s policies. Further, in section 3.7.7.3 the agreement clearly establishes that there are “wrongful uses” for a domain name, although it does not specify what those wrongful uses are.

"Any Registered Name Holder that intends to license use of a domain name to a third party is nonetheless the Registered Name Holder of record and is responsible for providing its own full contact information and for providing and updating accurate technical and administrative contact information adequate to facilitate timely resolution of any problems that arise in connection with the Registered Name. A Registered Name Holder licensing use of a Registered Name according to this provision shall accept liability for harm caused by wrongful use of the Registered Name, unless it promptly discloses the identity of the licensee to a party providing the Registered Name Holder reasonable evidence of actionable harm."

ICANN, through this agreement clearly grants the registrar authority to create the policies that it feels are needed to properly administer their service as long as those policies do not collide with ICANN policy. So DirectNic draws the authority to shut down the domains based on a report of cp from the ICANN agreement most assuredly.

Putting it all together, DirectNic was required by law to act on a report of child pornography on a domain registered through them. Directnic was allowed by law to make an investigation and is allowed by law to monitor domains registered through them. In addition to reporting the incident and undertaking their own investigation they were allowed, by authority granted to them through an agreement with ICANN to cancel the accounts as they saw fit.

softball
12-16-2006, 07:15 PM
What is your point in all of this? I for one never disagreed with that. But thanks for doing the legwork. The problem is locking up the domain. They took punitive action which, even according to what you just posted, is beyond their perview.

sarettah
12-16-2006, 07:39 PM
What is your point in all of this? I for one never disagreed with that. But thanks for doing the legwork. The problem is locking up the domain. They took punitive action which, even according to what you just posted, is beyond their perview.

If they had cancelled him his domains would have been down for a lot longer than the less than day or so they were down.

Which of the two would have been more punitive?

I think that anyone in the process that can take action against cp should, I don't care whether they are required to or not, I care whether they are allowed to. DN was clearly allowed to do what they did and should be getting cheers for daring to buck the adult community in the name of getting rid of cp instead of getting boycott threats and such.

If everyone that was allowed to, but not required to, report this kind of shit did then a whole lot more cp would come down a lot quicker.

softball
12-16-2006, 07:50 PM
"I think that anyone in the process that can take action against cp should, I don't care whether they are required to or not, I care whether they are allowed to."
Two points here. I don't think anyone would disagree that action should be taken when something illegal is suspected. I disagree with the action. Their obligation is to report it to someone who can legally do the right thing.

You don't care whether they are allowed to or not? WTF, you don't care about the rule of law? You know Sarettah, when "they" kick down your door for being filthy pornographer, just because your Baptist neighbour thinks it is disgusting, do not scream foul.

This extreme right wing radical solution never works. Hell burn the Reichstag and blame the Bolsheviks. It is obvious they are criminals. What is not always obvious is what is right and what is wrong. It is the basis of civilisation as we have come to enjoy it. You turn loose the dogs of vigilantiesim (sp?) and our freedom fractures beyond repair.

sarettah
12-16-2006, 08:02 PM
"You don't care whether they are allowed to or not? WTF, you don't care about the rule of law? You know Sarettah, when "they" kick down your door for being filthy pornographer, just because your Baptist neighbour thinks it is disgusting, do not scream foul.


Ok, I will try to do this in a non denigrating manner. Please reread what I wrote. I wrote that I care if they are allowed to. If they are allowed to take action, they should.

softball
12-16-2006, 08:06 PM
Ok, I will try to do this in a non denigrating manner. Please reread what I wrote. I wrote that I care if they are allowed to. If they are allowed to take action, they should.

I will reciprocate the courtesy. Please re read what I said. I agree they should be allowed to take action. Indeed they should be compelled to take action like the Good Samaritan law. What I disagree with is the action taken. I thought I had made that perfectly clear.

softball
12-16-2006, 08:19 PM
I posted this in another thread, but I think it is actually more appropriate here....

OK, here is a Free Speech Coalition opinion....excerpts....

"First Amendment attorney and Free Speech Coalition Chairman Jeffrey Douglas said the ID request is unprecedented, and more importantly, a violation of privacy laws. According to Douglas, the request is illegal, and also could have a chilling effect on the free speech of webmasters that deal in legal teen content.

“This is a blatant and absolute violation of privacy laws,” Douglas told XBIZ. “There’s absolutely no legal liability for the registrar if underage models appear on a website. DirectNIC is an officious intermeddler.”

Upon receiving a complaint of child pornography, there are legal courses of action for directNIC to take, Douglas said. Since it has no legal right to obtain personally identifiable information from the website’s models, the company should have alerted the proper legal authorities, but instead it decided to take the law into its own hands. "


"“The bottom line is that if [directNIC] received a complaint about child porn, there are a numerous avenues for them to report it to the proper legal authorities,” Douglas said. “DirectNIC has no remote prayer to legally justify their request. They are licensed to provide a service — not to police content. I would think that upon hearing this, most adult companies would transfer their domains [away from directNIC] immediately.”

"Douglas continued, “Again, under federal law they have no right to these documents, so now they have no protection from civil liability. They are immune from policing content under the law, but now by doing so they have created liability. DirectNIC is lawlessly intruding into their business.”

And the DirectNic Response:

"According to directNIC General Counsel David W. Nance, upon receiving a warranted complaint of child porn, the company takes action by either immediately shutting down the domain or conducting an investigation.

“In most cases when there is a confirmed report of child porn, directNIC takes immediate action and shuts down the domain names because it is blatantly obvious that the customer is offering child porn,” Nance told XBIZ. “However, not every case is clear cut. The letter was intended to notify the customer of the potential issue that was reported to directNIC. This does not mean that the domains contain child porn; it only means that an investigation was commenced — i.e., we want to make sure that we do not facilitate the trading of child porn online.”

sarettah
12-16-2006, 08:19 PM
I will reciprocate the courtesy. Please re read what I said. I agree they should be allowed to take action. Indeed they should be compelled to take action like the Good Samaritan law. What I disagree with is the action taken. I thought I had made that perfectly clear.

The second paragraph of what you wrote was what I was talking about.

softball
12-16-2006, 08:22 PM
The second paragraph of what you wrote was what I was talking about.

Please just quote what you mean. I am getting lost in the quagmire. I will respond.

sarettah
12-16-2006, 08:25 PM
"You don't care whether they are allowed to or not? WTF, you don't care about the rule of law? You know Sarettah, when "they" kick down your door for being filthy pornographer, just because your Baptist neighbour thinks it is disgusting, do not scream foul.


There, at the beginning of that

softball
12-16-2006, 08:30 PM
"I don't care whether they are required to or not, I care whether they are allowed to. DN was clearly allowed to do what they did and should be getting cheers for daring to buck the adult community in the name of getting rid of cp instead of getting boycott threats and such."

Perhaps a misinterpretation....however you also said DN was clearly allowed to do what they do....
The FSC disagrees, so obviously it is not clear....

"“DirectNIC has no remote prayer to legally justify their request. They are licensed to provide a service — not to police content. I would think that upon hearing this, most adult companies would transfer their domains [away from directNIC] immediately.”

"Douglas continued, “Again, under federal law they have no right to these documents, so now they have no protection from civil liability. They are immune from policing content under the law, but now by doing so they have created liability. DirectNIC is lawlessly intruding into their business.”

softball
12-16-2006, 08:31 PM
Sounds like a pretty good argument to me. The shit could fly.

softball
12-16-2006, 08:35 PM
Just in case, Sarettah, that you think this is in anyway related to how I feel about MikeAI's politics, it is not. I would feel exactly the same if any registrar did this.

JR
12-16-2006, 10:46 PM
the interesting part of all this is that everyone gets upset at DirectNIC. i can understand that because of the insecurity that creates and no one wants to feel they can wake up one day and find their business shut down.

BUT... there is an entirely different side to this. thats the fact that this is still an industry that doesn't comply with the law, hasn't complied with past laws and fails miserably to police itself in any way, shape or form. in fact, the general attitude is generally one of outright defiance.

Boycotting DirectNIC, while maybe justified in the eyes of most, does nothing to address the real problems... its just theater to maintain a "feel good" and false sense of security people need to feel better about themselves and to go on about their day telling themselves that everything is ok. It ignores the fact that all registrars have this power. It ignores the fact that this is a possibility with any registrar. It ignores the fact that the Federal Government has been clear that they will do everything they can to pressure this business from every possible side. No one is 2257 compliant anyway and no matter what anyone thinks about legality or "right" and "wrong" a 38 year old mother of 3 stumbling across some of these TGP's isn't going to care much about docs when they see a consistent pattern of girls looking to be much younger than 18.

Additionally, there is a real problem. People produce and distribute CP. People abuse children. The problem with the "report it to the FBI" notion is that it does little to get the site shut down and put the person in jail and send a message. The registrar is the ONLY people that have the ability to stop someone in their tracks.. whether they should or not is obviously debatable... but notifying law enforcement brings into play 10-20 law enforcement agencies and various departments of those agencies worldwide that have to work together through impossible beurocracy and slow communication to investigate. it takes months. the dirty secret of the ASACP is what it has always been... it stops nothing. just like reporting a spammer stops nothing when the business model is already built on the fact that the site will be up for 3-4 weeks before moving. meanwhile.. children are being abused in this time. sites are up.

I dont like the idea of a registrar playing judge, jury and executioner... but a sad fact of law enforcement is that the registrar is more effective in stopping a CP related site.

Hell Puppy
12-17-2006, 12:03 AM
JR is dead on.

But the problem with Directnic or anyone else playing vigilante here is there's no checks and balances. One party has all the power.

The sex.com case pretty well sets a precedent that domains are property, and there's something that really rubs me wrong about any individual party depriving another of use of their property without due process. And any Directnic kangaroo court or investigation is not my idea of due process.

JR
12-17-2006, 12:53 AM
JR is dead on.

But the problem with Directnic or anyone else playing vigilante here is there's no checks and balances. One party has all the power.

The sex.com case pretty well sets a precedent that domains are property, and there's something that really rubs me wrong about any individual party depriving another of use of their property without due process. And any Directnic kangaroo court or investigation is not my idea of due process.

I agree with you fully. i think anyone does. I am just always dumbfounded by the shortsightedness of people in this business.

Boycott DirectNIC... thats fine and understandable. then what? Godaddy and others have done some very shady shit. DirectNIC was not the first shut sites down completely... and other registrars have done it without even talking to the owners, in response to complaints. Which affiliate program did Godaddy shut down when Acacia sent them a letter? Thats not much different. But thats the problem with this biz. if everyone can find a nice little patch of sand to bury their heads... problem solved!

Meanwhile, this business is still under attack from every angle and everyone is defending the guy who did the following

1) had sites full of what any parent would consider to be disturbing content, all set in a certain context to imply underage girls.

2) linked directly to sites shut down for CP

3) could have handled things quietly and like a moron decided to try his case in the GFY court of opinion... WHILE pointing out himself, time and time again that he was already committing felonies in regards to record keeping.

... and its really just a matter of time before this all happens again.... and just a matter of time before some more, irrational, illogical and incredibly nasty laws are passed because of how people act in this biz.

it is interesting to watch. counting the ratio of "Fuck DirectNIC" to "Hey, we really need to clean shit up" posts. pretty telling. most people still have no idea what their obligations are today under the law in terms of record keeping. its pretty funny... just blame Bush... keep breaking the law, keep pushing the boundaries and cry foul when shit goes sideways.

Hell Puppy
12-17-2006, 02:58 AM
I agree with you fully. i think anyone does. I am just always dumbfounded by the shortsightedness of people in this business.

Boycott DirectNIC... thats fine and understandable. then what? Godaddy and others have done some very shady shit. DirectNIC was not the first shut sites down completely... and other registrars have done it without even talking to the owners, in response to complaints. Which affiliate program did Godaddy shut down when Acacia sent them a letter? Thats not much different. But thats the problem with this biz. if everyone can find a nice little patch of sand to bury their heads... problem solved!

Meanwhile, this business is still under attack from every angle and everyone is defending the guy who did the following

1) had sites full of what any parent would consider to be disturbing content, all set in a certain context to imply underage girls.

2) linked directly to sites shut down for CP

3) could have handled things quietly and like a moron decided to try his case in the GFY court of opinion... WHILE pointing out himself, time and time again that he was already committing felonies in regards to record keeping.

... and its really just a matter of time before this all happens again.... and just a matter of time before some more, irrational, illogical and incredibly nasty laws are passed because of how people act in this biz.

it is interesting to watch. counting the ratio of "Fuck DirectNIC" to "Hey, we really need to clean shit up" posts. pretty telling. most people still have no idea what their obligations are today under the law in terms of record keeping. its pretty funny... just blame Bush... keep breaking the law, keep pushing the boundaries and cry foul when shit goes sideways.

Yeah, and I hate being put in the position of looking like I'm defending the guy. I'm not.

I just dont approve of the way it was remediated.

As much as I might like to cut the pecker off of someone who produces childporn and feed it to him before dragging them behind a truck for a couple of hundred miles on gravel roads, that's also not the correct thing to do...especially without due process.

I think a big part of the reaction is almost all of us know we MAY fall into some gray area of the law or someone's TOS. You're right we constantly under fire. With that in mind, the thought that someone may interpret what we're doing as being across the line and shut us down and hold our domains hostage does not sit well.

Boycott Directnic is a kneejerk reaction.

Myself, I'll be reviewing TOS on all of the registrars I have domains with, and any that have any I dont think I can live with, I'll be moving away from.

Peaches
12-17-2006, 10:25 AM
JR is dead on.

But the problem with Directnic or anyone else playing vigilante here is there's no checks and balances. One party has all the power.

The sex.com case pretty well sets a precedent that domains are property, and there's something that really rubs me wrong about any individual party depriving another of use of their property without due process. And any Directnic kangaroo court or investigation is not my idea of due process.
However, as Slavick has pointed out (and I trust Slavick on domain laws more than I do pretty much anyone else), your domains are NOT your property in many states.

California is one where they are. Ergo that's where sex.com was referenced as property. Slavick mentioned in Virginia, they are not. On another board, in another post, KK mentioned AOL winning an award against a company and was considering taking their domains in lieu of settlement payment. The company paid.

ALSO on another board, it was shown where Shaw Cable, out of Canada, got Tucows to shut down one of Brad Shaw's domains. No CP - just that they were involved in a trademark/copyright infridgment case. Brad won - the site was taken down BEFORE any judges made a ruling.

Everything is case by case.

softball
12-17-2006, 11:59 AM
However, as Slavick has pointed out (and I trust Slavick on domain laws more than I do pretty much anyone else), your domains are NOT your property in many states.

California is one where they are. Ergo that's where sex.com was referenced as property. Slavick mentioned in Virginia, they are not. On another board, in another post, KK mentioned AOL winning an award against a company and was considering taking their domains in lieu of settlement payment. The company paid.

ALSO on another board, it was shown where Shaw Cable, out of Canada, got Tucows to shut down one of Brad Shaw's domains. No CP - just that they were involved in a trademark/copyright infridgment case. Brad won - the site was taken down BEFORE any judges made a ruling.

Everything is case by case.

No site should be taken down before there is a legal ruling. A civilian with a registration company is not a legal expert. Even if they were, it is certainly not clear that they have the right to lock up someone's shop because they don't like the product. It is not about cp folks, it is about how it is dealt with. The CP is a red freeking herring.
We fall prey to the same bullshit that the public does. Whenever you mention porn, they think CP.
So a company decides to flex its muscles (DN) what do they choose to set the precedent? CP.
Isn't it very obvious?

LadyMischief
12-17-2006, 12:35 PM
Guess it doesn't matter what the legal rights are or what anyone things. Looks like DirectNIC just axed a freehost and all their domains are in registrar-lock as well.

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=687480

Should be interesting to see who's next.

Peaches
12-17-2006, 12:43 PM
Guess it doesn't matter what the legal rights are or what anyone things. Looks like DirectNIC just axed a freehost and all their domains are in registrar-lock as well.

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=687480

Should be interesting to see who's next.
All my domains are on REGISTER-LOCK. It's so no one can change them w/o my permission!

And did you even BOTHER to read this posted approx TWELVE HOURS AGO:

Sorry guys, it's not Directnic related.. Cogent had a fiber cut at 8:05am which isolated the Montreal network from the rest of the Net, it lasted ~15 hours!! What's unfortunate is we're in the process of turning up BGP sessions with our providers and a couple of days later this outage wouldn't have affected us.
Seriously........:o

LadyMischief
12-17-2006, 01:52 PM
All my domains are on REGISTER-LOCK. It's so no one can change them w/o my permission!

And did you even BOTHER to read this posted approx TWELVE HOURS AGO:


Seriously........:o



Looks like I might have been mistaken. Ahh well my apologies. I think that the problem you seem to have with me is that I have a personal opinion on this that's very strong, and so do you. We will likely not agree, but I can see your points and hopefully you can see mine. I don't really care about DirectNIC, if any OTHER registrar was doing this (and apparently there was another), I would be just as worried. The whole thing happened under what seemed like a worthy cause, but the implications for the future could be bad for EVERYONE in the industry. You may not promote teen sites, Peaches, but teens aren't the only things that people can find offensive or have sites shut down for. Just about anything can be considered offensive depending on where you are and you know that. I am extricating myself from any further discussions because I am tired of running around in circles. If you people won't see (as you yourselves have said but seem not to observe personally) that there are TWO sides to the coin, and it's not my job to educate your perception. At least I can acknowledge that DirectNIC might have done what it thought was best. I don't think that you can acknowledge the potential damage their actions MAY have on future business. Let's hope you (or I) never have to worry about it.

Peaches
12-17-2006, 02:01 PM
This has nothing to do with teen sites, DirectNic or you. My problem is with ANYONE who throws things around like they're facts when they know nothing at all about what they're talking about. You made a very inflamatory post here w/o even READING THE DAMN THREAD.

And your comments on TOSs not being able to supersede law are just ignorant.

If DirectNic closed Slick's site down illegally then Slick can sue. Period, end of story.

LadyMischief
12-17-2006, 02:09 PM
This has nothing to do with teen sites, DirectNic or you. My problem is with ANYONE who throws things around like they're facts when they know nothing at all about what they're talking about. You made a very inflamatory post here w/o even READING THE DAMN THREAD.

And your comments on TOSs not being able to supersede law are just ignorant.

If DirectNic closed Slick's site down illegally then Slick can sue. Period, end of story.

Ya well we all make mistakes Peaches. Relax, you aren't immune to humanity either.

As for my comments on TOS's, actually, I'm not ignorant. If someone put something that was against a law on the books as a term, it would not be enforcable, but as Sarretah clarified, it would have to go to court to be deemed as such. Still, the point does remain.

I agree, if they took the site down illegally, he can sue. It seems they are all working on things so I hope it comes out well, I just hope that other, less REASONABLE registrars don't get a bug and decide to start locking down domains. :)

softball
12-17-2006, 07:59 PM
"My problem is with ANYONE who throws things around like they're facts when they know nothing at all about what they're talking about"

This would be Peaches modus operandi. She did it here for years. Now she is jumping all over LM for a mistake. When things happen this quickly, mistakes will happen. But Peaches hammering LM over it is just plain ludicrous. Peaches arguments are thin at best, so its time to sling shit again.

Hell Puppy
12-17-2006, 11:41 PM
However, as Slavick has pointed out (and I trust Slavick on domain laws more than I do pretty much anyone else), your domains are NOT your property in many states.

California is one where they are. Ergo that's where sex.com was referenced as property. Slavick mentioned in Virginia, they are not. On another board, in another post, KK mentioned AOL winning an award against a company and was considering taking their domains in lieu of settlement payment. The company paid.

ALSO on another board, it was shown where Shaw Cable, out of Canada, got Tucows to shut down one of Brad Shaw's domains. No CP - just that they were involved in a trademark/copyright infridgment case. Brad won - the site was taken down BEFORE any judges made a ruling.

Everything is case by case.

The ICANN and WIPO process for settling copyright infringement cases is an example of a good due independent due process. I think Shaw's case actually pre-dated that. But we ALL live under those rules including all of the registrars.

I hate kiddie porn and the black eye it gives all of us. And although on one hand I respect Directnic for taking a stand, I am a bit uneasy with how heavy handed it was with no due process or independent corroboration.

Peaches
12-18-2006, 08:41 AM
Twith no due process or independent corroboration.
Neither of which you are privy to so how are you making that ASSumption?

softball
12-18-2006, 11:21 AM
Neither of which you are privy to so how are you making that ASSumption?

Then enlighten us if you are. Quit beating around the bush. All these inferences of other processes at work and blah blah blah. Spit it out. Say something damnit. We would all love to know. Is there a gag order somewhere along the line?