What are "normal" conversions these days?

[Hell Puppy]

This came up in another thread, it needs a thread of it's own....

It's tough to even define the conversion because there are a zillion variables. If you're dealing only in TGP traffic from galleries you're submitting to TGPs that you do NOT own yourself and sending that traffic to cookie cutter tours, you might see 1:25000 or worse these days.

What about SE traffic? It's not been long ago that any halfway decent paysite could do 1:20 on targeted SE traffic. Now, even a well targeted campaign might do 1:200 or worse, and you need unique content and good ad writing skills to pull that off. Oh, and the SE's aren't going to let you filter too heavily. The more disclosure you put in the ad the better the conversion, but the worse the number of clicks to impressions. That ratio gets too high and your cost per click will go thru the roof or the ad will simply be disabled.

I'll give some real numbers as general as I have. With my own traffic net which has a WIDE variety of sources of traffic, but all have my own ad filtering and targetting techniques applied will convert at 1:250 or better quite consistently when sent ot my own paysites. It'll do that 24/7/365 with minimal variation.

I can send that same traffic to other paysites and I might see the same type rates one week, then I change nothing and the next week I get 1:1000, then back down. Draw your own conclusions as to what is happening there.

[Jace]

haha, I just started a thread on gfy about this same thing

here is what I posted there:

Has anyone noticed a slow decline of ratios over the past 3-4 years?

I started promoting other program in the search engines, and while you only got 100-200 uniques a day to your SE pages you were ecstatic because most sponsors converted 1:20 off ANY search engine traffic...hell, I remember when I put my first SE page up for TCG and got a sale after the first 20 clicks thrugh to the site.

it just isn't that way anymore....I am doing almost the same things I was doing back then, getting more traffic than before, and my ratios are 1:500 and shit, off of search engine traffic....it irritates me, because I was never one to have massive amounts of traffic, I just always had GOOD traffic....now I feel like I have to work my little ass off to get 1000-2000 SE hits a day to my shit to even make 2 sales.

I remember when people were happy with 1:1000 ratios on a TGP (which I thought was inssane at the time), now they are bragging about 1:1750 and shit, and that is just insane to think about....hell, I have seen some people talking about 1:2500 and shit like it is normal

[gonzo]

haha, I just started a thread on gfy about this same thing

here is what I posted there:

Has anyone noticed a slow decline of ratios over the past 3-4 years?

I started promoting other program in the search engines, and while you only got 100-200 uniques a day to your SE pages you were ecstatic because most sponsors converted 1:20 off ANY search engine traffic...hell, I remember when I put my first SE page up for TCG and got a sale after the first 20 clicks thrugh to the site.

it just isn't that way anymore....I am doing almost the same things I was doing back then, getting more traffic than before, and my ratios are 1:500 and shit, off of search engine traffic....it irritates me, because I was never one to have massive amounts of traffic, I just always had GOOD traffic....now I feel like I have to work my little ass off to get 1000-2000 SE hits a day to my shit to even make 2 sales.

I remember when people were happy with 1:1000 ratios on a TGP (which I thought was inssane at the time), now they are bragging about 1:1750 and shit, and that is just insane to think about....hell, I have seen some people talking about 1:2500 and shit like it is normal

I have one site that is 0:10000 . I pulled down the link. I must not be doing something right.

[Jace]

I have one site that is 0:10000 . I pulled down the link. I must not be doing something right.
man, I am seeing that more and more these days....back in 2001 or so I could not get a sponsor to be 0:10000 even if I tried

[gonzo]

man, I am seeing that more and more these days....back in 2001 or so I could not get a sponsor to be 0:10000 even if I tried

Site owner just told me to try her new site that was coming out in a few weeks. Of course the rep she hired didnt even answer ICQ. I suppose she was busy on here earning a cap.

[Jace]

Site owner just told me to try her new site that was coming out in a few weeks. Of course the rep she hired didnt even answer ICQ. I suppose she was busy on here earning a cap.
If I looked at my stats and saw anyone over 0:5000 on my site, I would contact the site owner first and figure out what we could do to improve that

In fact, I usually end up doing that with an affiliate about once every two weeks.....

[melody]

I swear I'm stuck in a time loop or something. I swear I've had this same conversation a million times over the last eight years ... at Ynot, CONDOM, Netpond, etc, etc, etc ...

But to take the official stance again -- you're absolutely right, the business utterly sucks and no one but no one should enter it now. ;-) It's only for the old-timers who know what they're doing.

[Jace]

I swear I'm stuck in a time loop or something. I swear I've had this same conversation a million times over the last eight years ... at Ynot, CONDOM, Netpond, etc, etc, etc ...

But to take the official stance again -- you're absolutely right, the business utterly sucks and no one but no one should enter it now. ;-) It's only for the old-timers who know what they're doing.

there are no old timers, it is a myth ;)

I say leave it to the full time professionals who are serious about their business, life and money

[gonzo]

I swear I'm stuck in a time loop or something. I swear I've had this same conversation a million times over the last eight years ... at Ynot, CONDOM, Netpond, etc, etc, etc ...

But to take the official stance again -- you're absolutely right, the business utterly sucks and no one but no one should enter it now. ;-) It's only for the old-timers who know what they're doing.

And the answer changes about every 3 months.

[vdc-Loki]

I'm seeing 1:250 for our chubby teen right now, and thats off Xpeeps lol

-Loki-

[Hell Puppy]

I swear I'm stuck in a time loop or something. I swear I've had this same conversation a million times over the last eight years ... at Ynot, CONDOM, Netpond, etc, etc, etc ...

But to take the official stance again -- you're absolutely right, the business utterly sucks and no one but no one should enter it now. ;-) It's only for the old-timers who know what they're doing.

I'd say instead that you should stay away if you dont want to work and have no business sense.

There's still good money to be made, it just isn't easy anymore.

[gonzo]

I'm seeing 1:250 for our chubby teen right now, and thats off Xpeeps lol

-Loki-

If you peeped the newsletter a few weeks ago youd know that BBW/Chunky traffic is "running wild".

What ya gonna do???

[vdc-Loki]

If you peeped the newsletter a few weeks ago youd know that BBW/Chunky traffic is "running wild".

What ya gonna do???

yeah kind of figured, but the xpeeps stats are looking 2 sweeeet

-Loki-

[melody]

>it just isn't easy anymore.

IMO, it never was easy. I think the difference is back then we were revved up and excited. Nowadays, we're older and burned-out and jaded ... which is why I went to mainstream for two years.

[gonzo]

>it just isn't easy anymore.

IMO, it never was easy. I think the difference is back then we were revved up and excited. Nowadays, we're older and burned-out and jaded ... which is why I went to mainstream for two years.

Just when you thought you were out.... they pulled you back in?

[Hell Puppy]

>it just isn't easy anymore.

IMO, it never was easy. I think the difference is back then we were revved up and excited. Nowadays, we're older and burned-out and jaded ... which is why I went to mainstream for two years.

Like mainstream is easy?

I have mainstream ventures, always have. They do quite well and represent a growing percentage of my income and portfolio...

But that said, different challenges, but still a pain in the ass. For the most part the membership model is a much tougher sell in mainstream. So you have to deliver a product of some sort, either hard goods or soft ware. There are some "service" oriented opportunities. And of course there's the mainstream version of the affiliate game and even flat out selling raw traffic.

Differences? Nothing is as easy to sell as sex. And most mainstreamers give you a much smaller percentage and want to sit on it for an entire quarter.

But then at least it's a realistic business model that doesn't scorch earth on the traffic you feed to it.

[melody]

No, I kept my adult sites, I'm just building again whereas I was at a standstill for a long while.

I still have my mainstream sites, too, and do very well between October 1st and January 1st, since that's the scope of my traffic. I am just burned out there (though still building traffic) where I was once burned out in adult. lol It's a matter of focus and direction and etc, I guess.

[gonzo]

Ive seen the traffic myth debunked already once this year.
Brand new free porn site... launched with almost no content and no paid advertising for 3 months. This site was up to a million and a half impressions a day before it was aggresively promoted.

Whats more is I bet I see another one in the next few days do the same damn thing.

Only thing lacking in this business is the enthusiasm to innovate. Too many people want a 'hamburger helper" solution.

Throw up a simple page/tgp/blog/link list etc ... make a couple of trades and sit back and make a living.

Big Vito ended up getting killed because he refused to do an honest days worth of work.

No more Johnny Cakes.

[slavdogg]

all you TGP lovin cocksuckers killed this biz

and now you're all complaining ??

[Jace]

all you TGP lovin cocksuckers killed this biz

and now you're all complaining ??
I don't think there are many tgp lovers on this board, at least not that I have seen

but you are right, tgp's did hurt the internet money really bad, but now that they are here this strong and they are the "thing" for newbies to do to make them feel like they are porn webmasters, we have to find ways to make money around them

I personally try to have very little to do with tgp's...when I am doing link trades, when I am buying links, etc...I will not work with tgp's very much, and the ones I do work with I know them and their traffic before hand

[melody]

all you TGP lovin cocksuckers killed this biz

and now you're all complaining ??


Whoa, for a second there, I thought I was on GFY. lol

TGPs are fine -- the problem is with the TGP webmaster. If they give away too much, it causes a problem. You sell the sizzle, not the steak. Don't blame TGPs. Blame inept/boobnoob webmasters. Giving stuff away free to sell stuff is a time honored tradition.

Anyway, I think P2P did more damage than TGPs.

[Hell Puppy]

Ive seen the traffic myth debunked already once this year.
Brand new free porn site... launched with almost no content and no paid advertising for 3 months. This site was up to a million and a half impressions a day before it was aggresively promoted.

Whats more is I bet I see another one in the next few days do the same damn thing.

Only thing lacking in this business is the enthusiasm to innovate. Too many people want a 'hamburger helper" solution.

Throw up a simple page/tgp/blog/link list etc ... make a couple of trades and sit back and make a living.

Big Vito ended up getting killed because he refused to do an honest days worth of work.

No more Johnny Cakes.


Well seeded and financed though. Not just any "broke ass motherfucker"(tm) is going to be able to do that.

[Hell Puppy]

Whoa, for a second there, I thought I was on GFY. lol

TGPs are fine -- the problem is with the TGP webmaster. If they give away too much, it causes a problem. You sell the sizzle, not the steak. Don't blame TGPs. Blame inept/boobnoob webmasters. Giving stuff away free to sell stuff is a time honored tradition.

Anyway, I think P2P did more damage than TGPs.

Oh, no doubt, TGPs are terrible for business.

Free pics (and now movies) on usenet were bad for business before those.

I would love to see nary a nipple on the net without someone having to pay for it, but that isn't going to happen. So you have to figure out how to live with it, deal with it, and ideally use it to your own advantage.

Free market can be a bitch. If you open up a store in the mall selling widgets and it does well, there'll be 3 more stores there within a matter of months selling widgets as well, plus a bunch of freestanding booths in the middle of the mall selling widget knock offs.

[Mr Benn]

Whoa, for a second there, I thought I was on GFY. lol

TGPs are fine -- the problem is with the TGP webmaster. If they give away too much, it causes a problem. You sell the sizzle, not the steak. Don't blame TGPs. Blame inept/boobnoob webmasters. Giving stuff away free to sell stuff is a time honored tradition.


Not that I've ever been involved with TGP's - but I don't think you can blame this kind of mentality. Indeed the problem is with the TGP webmaster, but if someone was running galleries more hardcore than everyone else, then they are going to be getting the most clicks.

Unless you're the fucking UN porn police then what are you gonna do to stop that? Anything goes to get more traffic than others.

Just because the right thing to do is not show too much, and you go by that principal, you will loose out because everyone else who doesn't care will be getting your traffic by giving people more. Even if they have crap ratios.

Link1: "Blonde in panties about to rub her clit"
Link2: "Naked blonde stuffing her fingers right inside"

What is going to get the most clicks?

Unless you just lie about the gallery inside, in which case the TGP probably won't list you because you're talking shit.

Also, the more hardcore galleries a TGP displays, the more traffic that TGP is going to receive, because people will know it has good stuff for them that they don't need to really pay for.