Do you promote prechecked cross sales?

[gonzo]

Hey ...Yo..... its survey time again.


So your surfer signs up for a free 3 day trial and later on discovers that he ends up with a $118 charge on his credit card bill.

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=613429

Are you sending your traffic to sites that have prechecked cross sales?

[TheEnforcer]

I can honestly say i never really checked for pre-checked cross sales before. Just looked at the sales numbers and checks and went from there. LOL

[Jace]

If it is on revshare, then no I won't send them traffic

but I honestly can say I have never checked on a pps program....as long as they give me my $30-40 payout and the checks don't bounce, I think they have the right to piss off the surfer in any way they want

[Jace]

This was just posted in that thread

this may help..
paycom emails the member and lets them know that they have joined ALL three sites.. the member can cancel all three with one call or one email..

oh and a kicker.. if the email they provide bounces or does not work.. the member is automatically cancelled...

if the member contacts paycom afterwards. the joins are credited back.. no problem.. if the member contacts their credit card.. the charges are also chargedback.. without any affidavit work.. b/c it was already logged as a high risk transaction... NOW with that said.. we must now work to try to keep that member a member of our site. .vs cancelling ours to stay a member of the other two sites.. .

That is almost like saying, "hey, we really wanna fuck you over, but not really!"

all in all, I am not against prechecked cross sales as long as they are clearly labeled...there was a day when prechecked cross sales were allowed to be invisible on the page, so the surfer had no idea they were even there, and that to me is scammy and shady, but almost every site I have seen has them clearly marked, right in plain site...so, that really isn't a bad thing

[Toby]

I do not promote PPS programs with pre-checked cross sales on their join pages. In fact I pulled all my links to one program last week when I found that they had pre-checked cross sales on the second page of their join process. I usually check before signing up. I'm not sure if I just missed this one or if the cross sales weren't there at the time.

...but almost every site I have seen has them clearly marked, right in plain site... The ones I've seen have been at the bottom of the form page, in smaller print than the form text, looking quite like the terms and conditions fine print that I see on many join forms. I would imagine that there's a fair number of people that don't realize they just signed up for three trials rather than one until they get the email.

I just find the whole practice somewhat deceptive. I want the surfer to come back to my sites and join other programs I'm also promoting. I may make less money in the long run, but I sleep better.

[Peaches]

Well, I have to rock the boat and say I see no problem with them. The program makes money, the affilate gets a higher payout, and if the surfer was being screwed as much as is thought, the chargebacks would be so high the programs couldn't continue to do it. I think they are appropriate for the "Mega" programs only though. If you joined some of them, you'd be amazed at how many have the material inside all their sites anyway ;)

They've been around for at least 5 years. I'm sure if/when they start causing chargeback problems, they will be voluntarily discontinued by the programs.

[Biggy]

I'm not going to say anything bad about them because I agree with Peaches that chargeback ratios dictate what is acceptable and what isn't. If lots of people complained fraud and charged back, they wouldn't be allowed. I should note that CCBILL doesnt allow any pre-checked cross sales from my understanding, so its mostly epoch from what I know.

On a side note, I find it a little humorous that a company who was bashing limited trials claiming they piss off the surfer engages in double pre-checked cross sales. This business is funny. I don't hate on either, whatever makes money and does not create chargebacks is OK in my book.

[gonzo]

I'm not going to say anything bad about them because I agree with Peaches that chargeback ratios dictate what is acceptable and what isn't. If lots of people complained fraud and charged back, they wouldn't be allowed. I should note that CCBILL doesnt allow any pre-checked cross sales from my understanding, so its mostly epoch from what I know.

On a side note, I find it a little humorous that a company who was bashing limited trials claiming they piss off the surfer engages in double pre-checked cross sales. This business is funny. I don't hate on either, whatever makes money and does not create chargebacks is OK in my book.

Nice observations...the surfer isnt your friend but he is your customer.
I think too many people try to be PT Barnum in this business.

[Jace]

Nice observations...the surfer isnt your friend but he is your customer.

exactly...I never considered the surfer my friend, but I always will try and sell them something in the smoothest way possible

I don't think I could ever use prechecked cross sales on any sites I would run, but as I said earlier I don't really have any problems with them as long as they aren't like they were at one time, basically invisible

to be honest, I would love to get to a point where I ran a major program with tons of mega sites....I would probably engage in such practices at that point for sure, it is all about maxmizing your dollar to the extreme, while at the same time maintaing within the regulations set forth by the companies above ya

I am personally in the process right now of going over every single free site I own, and finding every way I can to milk every penny out of them, it is amazing the holes I am finding while I analyze each site, holes that could be plugged with dollars...LOL...

[pam]

No, and I'll be removing quite a few links this weekend. My surfers are not just customers to me. Some have been with me since 1994 and spend megabucks. I interact with them via phone and email and if they feel I promoted something that ripped them off, they would let me know -- and they have in the past. That personal touch is what keeps them coming back again and again and remaining loyal to me, despite other sites coming up each day.

For example (site name blanked out), "Pam, how can you recommend xxx.com? I just joined, to see a very cute model featured on their teaser page, but upon clicking Member's Area I am shunted to something called www.xxx.com, with a limited number of hairy models, the featured cutie nowehere in sight, no search engine, and what appears to be a lot of ripped-off pix, mostly from atk hairy. There are a few hundred pix, not the thousands promised; 90% of the site is non-hairy stuff of all categories. Another rip-off, eh?"

The site was not using stolen content, btw, they just purchase content from the same photographers, as do I.

I use cross-sales on my CCBill sites BUT it is not pre-checked and the option to join another site is in rather small print. When I decide to promote a sponsor and see pre-checked cross sales, particularly in tiny print without a lot of information, I decide against promoting them.

How many sponsors would honestly admit, "gee, our chargeback ratio was high due to misleading pre-checked cross sales, and Visa just gave us huge fines?"

Remember, Visa doesn't just dump you, they fine you up to $25k a month after you've been warned and then the fines increase. They give you a lot of chances before pulling the processing.

[Peaches]

Pam, in your situation, I agree wholeheartedly. :)

[Hell Puppy]

Pre-checks are a symptom of an ongoing problem. The same one that has basically made processing such a pain and left us with only two really viable iPSP options for processing CC's.

The real problem is the economic system is broken.

You have programs competing for traffic from a shrinking number of sources that can provide it in volume. Now meanwhile, to get that traffic you have to be willing to pay $35-40 per signup if you want major volume. Oh, and it has to convert.

So how do you do this? You basically screw the customer every chance you get:

1) Trials. Offer him something cheap so hopefully you convert well, and pray that a lot of users are so busy pounding their pud that they forget to cancel before that trial turns into $29.95, $34.95, $39.95 or whatever you can get away with.

2) Pre-checked cross sales. Consoles are dying due to smarter and smarter browsers, so you now have to try to pad those margins some other way.

3) Upsell. Upsell absolutely anything you can.

4) Sell the addresses. Milk every last penny you can out of that surfer who parted with a credit card number. Let's bury the poor guy so he wont make that mistake again.


Well all do it, it's the economic system we have to live and compete in. Any other business out there is all about customer retention, satisfaction, etc. We fleece 'em and look for the next chump.