The biggest difference between the business now

[Nickatilynx]

and back when I started in 1996/1997 is this...

In 1996 the vast majority of people involved in this games ambition was to make millions a year , minimum 250k a yr.

Now the vast majority ambition is to make beer money or just around the same as they could make at a "real" job.

It is a major difference in mindset.

Was brought up in a phonecall earlier and thought I'd throw it out there...

[Dravyk]

Not to knock you. I tend to agree with you.

But that said, much of what you're saying has to do with boards talk.

We both know that people who made tons of money either:
- still are, but are silent about it
- still are, but don't post, but have others post for them
- out of it, retiring on it, spending it and reinvesting the capital so they can maintain it
- still are, and keep coming out with new products or "version 20" or whatever
- aren't likely to come around and post how they did it, how a newbie can increase it, etc.

The beer money webmasters are still the posters. Not saying everyone who posts is only making beer money, saying though all of those webmasters do post and are the great majority of the posters (talking about across the dozens of boards).

[Nickatilynx]

Not to knock you. I tend to agree with you.

But that said, much of what you're saying has to do with boards talk.

We both know that people who made tons of money either:
- still are, but are silent about it
- still are, but don't post, but have others post for them
- out of it, retiring on it, spending it and reinvesting the capital so they can maintain it
- still are, and keep coming out with new products or "version 20" or whatever
- aren't likely to come around and post how they did it, how a newbie can increase it, etc.

The beer money webmasters are still the posters. Not saying everyone who posts is only making beer money, saying though all of those webmasters do post and are the great majority of the posters (talking about across the dozens of boards).

No I think it has been taken to extremis to be honest.

There always was the guys just killing time etc etc

But in all honesty nowadays I feel there is no point in posting things I know will make money or improve the money someone makes.

For example you criticise Zeinna site and she gets all cunty...

She does not realise that she has had a wealth of experience in various fields giving her blunt advice....she takes it as everyone is "dissing" her rather than accepting it as a hard time lacking short but sweet criticism.

In all seriousness if she had handled the situation well , argued her way out of it...had a better attitude and basically impressed when she had the opportunity ,I'd have more confidence in sending traffic to her.

And I think she would have got way more traffic impressing 5 readers of this board than having her hand patted and being told "don't listen to the nasty men" on another board....

Its a change in peoples attitude over the years.

I think ...in fact I know... a lot of old school players read this board...

However they don't want to chime in on business because:

a.) no fucker listens..
b.) they will get in a moronic piss with someone without a clue
c.) there comments will be lost in the 100 "great programs" , "Awesome" "congratulation" posts...

As for the advertising they see here...

They come to Oprano because it is the old school board...no spin..

If a sponsor comes on and argues there cash explains why there program is better than an other...states mailer contact us for deal...etc etc

Some might sign up for programs that advertise here...but honestly...most are not gonna be persuaded to sign up for an Ipod , nor are they gonna want bimbettelucy of wankercash as their affiliate rep LOL.

For myself I would be more tempted to signup for a program that seemed professional and smart and on the ball...

A lot of what makes me decide where to send traffic is on what they don't say...the parties they don't throw...etc etc...weird?

Maybe I am.. LOL

But seriously treating Oprano as GFY from a sponsors point of view will never yield the rewards here.

I think it takes a different approach to land an old school whale....

Sorry in a thoughtful mode tonight.. :)

[voodooman]

This is the best damn thread I have read in quite some time.

Zeina could have learned alot as Nick said if she would have handeled herself
differently, HOWEVER, She is content. At the end of the day, she is the one who can get traffic to her site, but alot depends on the webmaster doing her site also.

On a whole I think both of you have valid points though.
If anyone doesnt think this biz has changed over the years
just attend a show, thats proof enough. Instead of people hanging
out talking biz, everyone is to busy trying to get laid and see who
can out drink everyone else on the beer money that they saved up
by doing TGP's.

[Biggy]

how come no one suggested that I manage Zeina's site?

Nick, I would've given you % as a referral. :)

[voodooman]

how come no one suggested that I manage Zeina's site?

Nick, I would've given you % as a referral. :)

I'm pretty sure she wants to make SOME money.

;)

[Biggy]

I'm pretty sure she wants to make SOME money.

;)

I'd be her biggest customer. :)

[Osiris]

I have never and probably will never attend a show. One came to New Orleans a few years ago and I didn't even bother going. People said they go and that I should go for the networking, from what I see and hear there's hardly any networking going on at all.

I am not in this to make beer money(see my sig) The money I do make, which is probably pocket change to a lot of people here, supports my family and allows me to do some of the things that I wouldn't be able to do if I had a "real" job.

I'm not rich, yet, but if I continue on the path that I am currently on I will be almost there, and rich to me doesn't take much. If I can get my sites producing 25k or more a month, that's all I need. Of course I wouldn't turn down more, but for me to live a luxurious life, I think that's all it would take with the right planning and investing.. :)

[voodooman]

I'd be her biggest customer. :)

Biggy,

Your in NY or Penn, there are women running around there that make her
look average. Just get out of your house and meet some of them.

Damn, listen to me, Mr. Single!

:(

[Dravyk]

But seriously treating Oprano as GFY from a sponsors point of view will never yield the rewards here.

I think it takes a different approach to land an old school whale.... Such a good point, just to make sure it doesn't get lost in the shuffle, I'll ask this. Loudly.

Yo! People with sponsor/affiliate programs ...

Answer me this (if you have the actual balls to do so honestly) ...

You niche your programs, you niche your banners, you tell your affiliates to niche, you tell your affiliates to treat each site differently that they have, to appeal differently depending upon the surfer hitting their sites, their gallieries, correct? Correct.

Therefore

Why are you such dumbasses that when it comes to boards and resources you

target them all the exact same way???

[xcitetv]

I am here to make millions ££££
not there yet, and if it doesnt look like i will by end 2006 i am out and doing something that will

NOT interested in going to meetings and socialising with anyone
I have enough friends thanks

"Its not personal its strictly business"

[slavdogg]

i love beer money
wish i could make more beer money

will beer money get me laid ??

[Trev]

This is an excellent thread. I think the main difference between "then" and "now" is that the people making the coin keep it to themselves, back "then" people bragged and posted bank statement scans. Why, I've no idea... maybe it was to elbow their way to the top of the pile.. I'm not sure.

I do know that if I was making massive amounts of money these days, I'd sure as hell be keeping tight lipped about it, why the hell would I want everyone and their dog snooping around trying to find out how I'm making money...


As for affiliate programs, I'm more than guilty of being one of those "way to go" cheerleaders... it's hard not to be when they're a sponsor of Oprano. But goddamn it's mind numbingly boring checking out the same cookie cutter programs out there...

It's been along time since I saw a program the stood out from the crowd, in fact I think the only program to even slightly impress me lately has been Jayman's - mainly because they've chosen to specialise in certain areas, rather than cover every niche with cookie cutter sites...


I'm not really sure where I was going with this so I'm just going to stop and think about it for a while :unsure:

[selena]

, nor are they gonna want bimbettelucy of wankercash as their affiliate rep LOL.


I was thinking of a name change to bimbettelucy, but it sounds like that might be a bad idea. Perhaps hawthanna instead.

[selena]

Why are you such dumbasses that when it comes to boards and resources you

target them all the exact same way???


I'm honestly not following you on this post.

Can you explain how boards are targeted the same way?

[sarettah]

I'm honestly not following you on this post.

Can you explain how boards are targeted the same way?


I think he means

Each board a sponsor advertises on gets:

The exact same banners
The exact same sticky threads
The exact same message

Rather than the sponsor customizing their message out to match the population of the board.

I think :)

[Anthony]

and back when I started in 1996/1997 is this...

In 1996 the vast majority of people involved in this games ambition was to make millions a year , minimum 250k a yr.

Now the vast majority ambition is to make beer money or just around the same as they could make at a "real" job.

It is a major difference in mindset.

Was brought up in a phonecall earlier and thought I'd throw it out there...

WHERE'S THE CREDIT FOR THIS QUOTE YOU BASTARD!!!

:)

[selena]

I think he means

Each board a sponsor advertises on gets:

The exact same banners
The exact same sticky threads
The exact same message

Rather than the sponsor customizing their message out to match the population of the board.

I think :)

Okay, that helps me understand it better. Thanks, sarettah. :)

I can't speak for anyone else, nor do I speak for JaYMan Cash as a whole. I speak about my role in it.

But I don't try to give the same message at every board I post on. Matter of fact, I do try to gear my posts toward the board of record. ie, I never start football threads on Netpond. I do on other boards. I don't post about Raven's newest pic set on the tranny board I post on. I don't post about the size of my last turd here, I do that on GFY.

Actually, I don't do that on GFY, but if I was going to post a post of that nature, that would be the board for it. :D

I do see what you are saying (if sarettah's interpretation is correct, that is) and agree. Anything done by sponsors on boards is marketing, and marketing should be targeted for best results.

[Anthony]

I have never and probably will never attend a show. One came to New Orleans a few years ago and I didn't even bother going. People said they go and that I should go for the networking, from what I see and hear there's hardly any networking going on at all.

I am not in this to make beer money(see my sig) The money I do make, which is probably pocket change to a lot of people here, supports my family and allows me to do some of the things that I wouldn't be able to do if I had a "real" job.

I'm not rich, yet, but if I continue on the path that I am currently on I will be almost there, and rich to me doesn't take much. If I can get my sites producing 25k or more a month, that's all I need. Of course I wouldn't turn down more, but for me to live a luxurious life, I think that's all it would take with the right planning and investing.. :)

Os,

You are more old school than you think. I've known plenty of webmasters that never make it to the shows and make a very good living at this.

25k a month is nothing to sneeze at, and is a great goal.

[TheEnforcer]

Good discussion going on here....

[Mike AI]

The change did not just happen, it started around 2000.

[Anthony]

The change did not just happen, it started around 2000.

Believe it or not, during the phone convo, that date was thrown up.

It seems to coincide with how many places were starting to help Newbies. It's come to the sad fact that today's newbie expects everything handed to them.

The difference between now and then?

There's a thread on GFY right now, asking "How many posts does it take to become an established webmaster".

That's a fucking joke right there.

[Nickatilynx]

Sorry Ant lol.

But it did get me thinking

Sarettah and Drav explained what I meant.

and as for this..........

"How many posts does it take to become an established webmaster".

Jesus H. Christ. LOL

I'll just grab some coffee and be back...

[sarettah]

It seems to coincide with how many places were starting to help Newbies. It's come to the sad fact that today's newbie expects everything handed to them.



That's what gets me a lot of times..

Hey, I'm a newbie. Sponsor, I want Free hosted galleries, I want text links and descriptions, I want free content, I want you to host my free sites..wait, hell with that, I want you to build some Free Hosted Free sites and linklists with my ref code in them because even though I want to be king of the net I don't want to have to learn HTML and while you're at it why don't you prepay me for the 100 joins a month that you are going to send to yourself in my name.

Oh, and send me a laptop and an ipod while you're at it.

And don't you dare shave me, because then I will bad mouth your name on every board I can find because you are taking away from all my hard work.


As far as number of posts to become an established webmaster......lolololololololololololol.....

That's the best one I've heard in a while...lolololol...

On GFY, to become an established webmaster figure 1000 posts unless you creatively attack the right playa or have a bunch of shills come in and vouch for you in which case you can become established in under 100 :okthumb:

[Anthony]

Not to beat a dead horse, but if Zeina actually could take constructive criticism, and not take it personally, she could have increased her bottom line.

It's never made any sense to me why people want to be more popular on boards than make more money.

Just in this thread alone, we have the man who started the single girl site niche, some big traffic guys, a few guys who liked to hit the send button, all who have had paysites, and know what converts. But all the comments made by us were pushed aside due to their "negative" nature, for the happy, your rock posts by tgp gallery makers.

It's sad.

[Dravyk]

But I don't try to give the same message at every board I post on. Matter of fact, I do try to gear my posts toward the board of record. ie, I never start football threads on Netpond. I do on other boards. I don't post about Raven's newest pic set on the tranny board I post on. I don't post about the size of my last turd here, I do that on GFY.

Actually, I don't do that on GFY, but if I was going to post a post of that nature, that would be the board for it. http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

I do see what you are saying (if sarettah's interpretation is correct, that is) and agree. Anything done by sponsors on boards is marketing, and marketing should be targeted for best results. First, Sarettah, yes you were 100% on the mark as what I was getting at (based on Nick's comments.)

Selena, I have to agree that you get high marks on understanding the nature of boards and proceeding differently on each and not posting identical posts (as many marketers I've seen on here and elsewhere do, and think they're actually doing their job.)

That said, and just to be a minor ball-breaker, if your banners where directed at whales, and the refer code went to a whale-specific page for Oprano, that would be better still. Not singling you out, as again, no sponsor does this.

But yes, an IPod giveaway banner on GFY, pushing a free-hosted TGP on GG&Jims, whale banner on Oprano ... such things are just the start of where sponsors should have long ago gone. But mostly, maybe totally -- with the exception of some of their marketing personnels posts -- everyone gets the same spiel, the same banner, and every adult webmaster place, each with it's own distinct flavor, has up to now been treated identically. Cookie-cutter, no-brains "marketing". Phewy!

[Nickatilynx]

It is obvious but no program actually targets each board in a different way.

[selena]

First, Sarettah, yes you were 100% on the mark as what I was getting at (based on Nick's comments.)

Selena, I have to agree that you get high marks on understanding the nature of boards and proceeding differently on each and not posting identical posts (as many marketers I've seen on here and elsewhere do, and think they're actually doing their job.)

That said, and just to be a minor ball-breaker, if your banners where directed at whales, and the refer code went to a whale-specific page for Oprano, that would be better still. Not singling you out, as again, no sponsor does this.

But yes, an IPod giveaway banner on GFY, pushing a free-hosted TGP on GG&Jims, whale banner on Oprano ... such things are just the start of where sponsors should have long ago gone. But mostly, maybe totally -- with the exception of some of their marketing personnels posts -- everyone gets the same spiel, the same banner, and every adult webmaster place, each with it's own distinct flavor, has up to now been treated identically. Cookie-cutter, no-brains "marketing". Phewy!

Thank you for the compliment :)

And please, feel free to break my balls anytime. On this issue, or any other. I like to learn, and I especially like to learn about things that might make me more money. I'm greedy like that.

Please bear with me as I try to riddle out what you mean by "whale specific page for Oprano". My definition of a whale is someone that I'd like to have sign up under me. An uber affiliate.

Is that what you mean when you say whale?

[TheEnforcer]

Yes, a whale specific traffic page would be something that caters to the top half of the surbey found here. http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/showthread.php?t=45012

Basically affiliates you would make "special considerations for" to get their business. :)

[selena]

Yes, a whale specific traffic page would be something that caters to the top half of the surbey found here. http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/showthread.php?t=45012

Basically affiliates you would make "special considerations for" to get their business. :)

Oh!

Like offering them a date with JaYMan!

[Nickatilynx]

Thank you for the compliment :)

And please, feel free to break my balls anytime. On this issue, or any other. I like to learn, and I especially like to learn about things that might make me more money. I'm greedy like that.

Please bear with me as I try to riddle out what you mean by "whale specific page for Oprano". My definition of a whale is someone that I'd like to have sign up under me. An uber affiliate.

Is that what you mean when you say whale?

I would judge a whale as someone who can send over 100 joins a day , sustained , to a program.

But that is just my definition.

That would be a sperm whale....there are some that can do 500 a day...they are a Blue Whale..and just as rare.

[selena]

I would judge a whale as someone who can send over 100 joins a day , sustained , to a program.

But that is just my definition.

That would be a sperm whale....there are some that can do 500 a day...they are a Blue Whale..and just as rare.

Thank you, Nickatilynx :)

I am beginning to see where you all are going with this, and I may steal the notion.

I have to first get JaYMan's approval for me to whore him out though. :D

[Anthony]

I would judge a whale as someone who can send over 100 joins a day , sustained , to a program.

But that is just my definition.

That would be a sperm whale....there are some that can do 500 a day...they are a Blue Whale..and just as rare.

Sadly, old friend. Whales are 10 to 20 sales a day nowadays.

The big boys are 50 plus. those are the white ones.

[Dravyk]

Call me Ishmael. ... http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Nickatilynx]

Sadly, old friend. Whales are 10 to 20 sales a day nowadays.

The big boys are 50 plus. those are the white ones.

Sucks to be them , I guess ;-)))

[Osiris]

Just out of curiosity I went to GFY to check my post count: 476


See how much time I waste on the boards? Hahaha

Okay, I'm going to put my neck on the chopping block. I WANT honest opinions here: http://www.cryptcash.com (http://www.cryptcash.com/) and the two sites we have under the program.

What can be done to improve the program/sites in your eyes, and by yours I am speaking in general so anyone and everyone that has an opinion, make it known.

I know what our plans are, but I'm wanting to see what everyone honestly thinks..

[Anthony]

Just out of curiosity I went to GFY to check my post count: 476


See how much time I waste on the boards? Hahaha

Ok, I'm going to neck on the chopping block. I WANT honest opinions here: http://www.cryptcash.com and the two sites we have under the program.

What can be done to improve the program/sites in your eyes, and by yours I am speaking in general so anyone and everyone that has an opinion, make it known.

I know what our plans are, but what I'm wanting to see what everyone honestly thinks..

One, you are going niche. The Goth niche is very hot, and if you have models specific to your site, you will do very well.

I can give a surfer review as good looking Goth chicks rock my boat. I'll look around and give you some feedback.

[Nickatilynx]

I'm not into goth chicks..in fact I want to punch them...but that is neither here nor there.

I just realised one of the things I do when I find an unfamilar affiliate program is go I look to see if they list who the people involved are, with a bio.

If they don't I don't join.

I look to see if there is a phone number contact and a physical address that looks like a real office.If there isn't one , I don't join.

My reasoning is it appears they are being run out of a back bedroom somewhere.

Would you trust someone who you have no info about , who seem to be undercapitalised to owe you 50k? I wouldn't.

Also I don't and will not join a Rev Share program.Most whales won't unless they know the person well.

If I see Rev share solely ( No paypaersignup option) I again suspect the program is undercapitalised.

Just some general thoughts..

[Osiris]

One, you are going niche. The Goth niche is very hot, and if you have models specific to your site, you will do very well.

I can give a surfer review as good looking Goth chicks rock my boat. I'll look around and give you some feedback.


Our goal from the start was to go niche. We thought about branching out a few times into shit like weird bondage and stuff, but we really want to stick to our original plans. Which is why we're still stuck at two sites.

I'm the type of person that if I'm going to do something, I want it done right. I don't want to just up and buy a bunch of shitty content to open more sites that probably won't do well. I want to make sure the content we get to make future updates and to open more sites is top notch shit that will sell. We have a few domains that we're dying to develop, but will not until I know for sure we can get the content we both need and want.


I did have plans for alternate tours, but I refuse to build more sites with the same damn content so it's going to sit dormant until I get what I want.


Feedback would be excellent! I think we're about to make a run out to the health food store and to pick up some other crap for around the house. I'll be back to participate in a few hours, probably more hours then I want to be out. When we go out we seem to get lost! Hahaha

[domtheboy]

No I think it has been taken to extremis to be honest.

There always was the guys just killing time etc etc

But in all honesty nowadays I feel there is no point in posting things I know will make money or improve the money someone makes.

For example you criticise Zeinna site and she gets all cunty...

She does not realise that she has had a wealth of experience in various fields giving her blunt advice....she takes it as everyone is "dissing" her rather than accepting it as a hard time lacking short but sweet criticism.

In all seriousness if she had handled the situation well , argued her way out of it...had a better attitude and basically impressed when she had the opportunity ,I'd have more confidence in sending traffic to her.

And I think she would have got way more traffic impressing 5 readers of this board than having her hand patted and being told "don't listen to the nasty men" on another board....

Its a change in peoples attitude over the years.

I think ...in fact I know... a lot of old school players read this board...

However they don't want to chime in on business because:

a.) no fucker listens..
b.) they will get in a moronic piss with someone without a clue
c.) there comments will be lost in the 100 "great programs" , "Awesome" "congratulation" posts...

As for the advertising they see here...

They come to Oprano because it is the old school board...no spin..

If a sponsor comes on and argues there cash explains why there program is better than an other...states mailer contact us for deal...etc etc

Some might sign up for programs that advertise here...but honestly...most are not gonna be persuaded to sign up for an Ipod , nor are they gonna want bimbettelucy of wankercash as their affiliate rep LOL.

For myself I would be more tempted to signup for a program that seemed professional and smart and on the ball...

A lot of what makes me decide where to send traffic is on what they don't say...the parties they don't throw...etc etc...weird?

Maybe I am.. LOL

But seriously treating Oprano as GFY from a sponsors point of view will never yield the rewards here.

I think it takes a different approach to land an old school whale....

Sorry in a thoughtful mode tonight.. :)

Excellent post.

You're spot on about the way that some individuals interpret criticism. I shook my head in disbelief when I read some of Zeina's comments. FFS, what do people honestly expect when they ask for comments, even in some cases adding, "whether good or bad", and then get uppity when someone does precisely that ?

Recently in my day job I got to work with a guy who had previously been a very senior member of an international consultancy. Needless to say the guy had a reputation as being extremely difficult to work with. In spite of this I accepted the assignment that was offered, and worked alongside him for 16 months. Was it fun ? Some of it yes, but for the most part no. And the reason ? Because for 16 months I got to see how I measured up against someone who had been there, done it, and done it well enough to start up his own company that was making money. And yep, that meant for the most part I had my work shredded on a daily basis, and dismissed as being poor and/or inferior.

When I tell people about this, they always say sympathetically, "God, you must have hated working for that wanker". My answer ? Nope, I not only enjoyed it (as much as possible), but I benefitted from it immensely. The standard of my work increased dramatically, so much so that my day job career is now looking rosier by the minute. And that is basically because I didn't run away with hurt feelings the first time someone said to me, "You know what Dom, my five year old could have produced better work that this ?"

It's for this same reason that on and off Trev and Morgan have been helping me with various aspects of my adult work. I don't just want to have my work shredded - I recognise that as a newcomer it is vital, and that unless my stuff can stand up to scrutiny from you chaps, I might as well pack up and go home.

And yes, I studied essay based subjects at college :okthumb:

[Osiris]

I'm not into goth chicks..in fact I want to punch them...but that is neither here nor there.

I just realised one of the things I do when I find an unfamilar affiliate program is go I look to see if they list who the people involved are, with a bio.

If they don't I don't join.

I look to see if there is a phone number contact and a physical address that looks like a real office.If there isn't one , I don't join.

My reasoning is it appears they are being run out of a back bedroom somewhere.

Would you trust someone who you have no info about , who seem to be undercapitalised to owe you 50k? I wouldn't.

Also I don't and will not join a Rev Share program.Most whales won't unless they know the person well.

If I see Rev share solely ( No paypaersignup option) I again suspect the program is undercapitalised.

Just some general thoughts..

I had a reply to this but I hit the backspace button and it went back to the last page erasing every damn thing I posted. I'll get back to it later, I'm being rushed by a mad woman here. LOL

[PornoDoggy]

In theory, marketing materials aimed at whales makes sense.

Methinks in practice, however, that the best way to recruit whales is to ensure "there is a phone number contact and a physical address that looks like a real office", and include "contact us for high-volume arrangements" [or words to that effect] in your materials.

I'm assuming they are not likely to simply click a join form and start sending traffic - although I'd be interested in knowing if I'm wrong about that.

Since there is no guarantee that only whales will see the "whale banners", I don't know that this is a realistic idea. There are plenty of heavy hitters around here, but there are also plenty of legends in their own minds, and I just don't think you can target whales on an open BBS.

[Red]

That's what gets me a lot of times..

Hey, I'm a newbie. Sponsor, I want Free hosted galleries, I want text links and descriptions, I want free content, I want you to host my free sites..wait, hell with that, I want you to build some Free Hosted Free sites and linklists with my ref code in them because even though I want to be king of the net I don't want to have to learn HTML and while you're at it why don't you prepay me for the 100 joins a month that you are going to send to yourself in my name.

Oh, and send me a laptop and an ipod while you're at it.

And don't you dare shave me, because then I will bad mouth your name on every board I can find because you are taking away from all my hard work.


As far as number of posts to become an established webmaster......lolololololololololololol.....

That's the best one I've heard in a while...lolololol...

On GFY, to become an established webmaster figure 1000 posts unless you creatively attack the right playa or have a bunch of shills come in and vouch for you in which case you can become established in under 100 :okthumb:

This unfortunately is so true. Webmasters are handed everything and it's difficult to have your affiliate program compete now without giving away the farm.

[Nickatilynx]

This unfortunately is so true. Webmasters are handed everything and it's difficult to have your affiliate program compete now without giving away the farm.

Interesting...

I know a few affiliate programs that you will never see advertising.

Never see someones banner in there sig.

And must pay out fortunes every week.

And all they tell you is "here's the url..here is the stats page"

No other help at all.

[slavdogg]

In theory, marketing materials aimed at whales makes sense.

Methinks in practice, however, that the best way to recruit whales is to ensure "there is a phone number contact and a physical address that looks like a real office", and include "contact us for high-volume arrangements" [or words to that effect] in your materials.

I'm assuming they are not likely to simply click a join form and start sending traffic - although I'd be interested in knowing if I'm wrong about that.

Since there is no guarantee that only whales will see the "whale banners", I don't know that this is a realistic idea. There are plenty of heavy hitters around here, but there are also plenty of legends in their own minds, and I just don't think you can target whales on an open BBS.

i have never cared how a program is marketed
whales, shmales
as long as you have good sites and is willing to work with us on the special deals we want, we can do biz
If we you dont pay us, we send in Bobo to break knee caps
its that simple.

[slavdogg]

Interesting...

I know a few affiliate programs that you will never see advertising.

Never see someones banner in there sig.

And must pay out fortunes every week.

And all they tell you is "here's the url..here is the stats page"

No other help at all.

these are also programs that dont keep upto date
and dont do enough to make sure their shit converts

[Dravyk]

these are also programs that dont keep upto date
and dont do enough to make sure their shit converts Name names. http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/smile.gif

You know you wanna. http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Nickatilynx]

these are also programs that dont keep upto date
and dont do enough to make sure their shit converts

Nope , didn't mean the old ones that never change anything and are really just taking in the rebills.

[Nickatilynx]

Lurkers...no need to decloak but go and vote here....

http://oprano.com/msgboard/showthread.php?t=45012

And vote honestly please :)

[sarettah]

Lurkers...no need to decloak but go and vote here....

http://oprano.com/msgboard/showthread.php?t=45012

And vote honestly please :)


Don't know if it was you asking or me threatening to get nekkid again but whatever it was worked :okthumb:

[LadyMischief]

I think he means

Each board a sponsor advertises on gets:

The exact same banners
The exact same sticky threads
The exact same message

Rather than the sponsor customizing their message out to match the population of the board.

I think :)


I've seen a few rare cases where a sponsor will target something specific on a board, something unique to that community, and it really and truly does increase interest. These boards ARE communities, and even in mainstream advertising, you don't advertise the same product to all communities the same way. Check out the flyers in a poorer area of a city as opposed to a higher scale area, or see the advertising in the Wall St. Journal as opposed to the local news rag. Each of these webmaster communities really has it's own demographic and you need to take the time to figure out what that is and appeal to it.

It really all just makes damn good advertising sense.

[Dravyk]

Don't know if it was you asking or me threatening to get nekkid again but whatever it was worked :okthumb: Whales like to use stealth technology. They can afford it. ;)

[slavdogg]

Nope , didn't mean the old ones that never change anything and are really just taking in the rebills.

name names?
do i know them ?
why am i not doing biz with them ?
if i dont know them, they're not important enough ..

i highly doubt u can name few programs like that you're referring to Nick

[Nickatilynx]

name names?
do i know them ?
why am i not doing biz with them ?
if i dont know them, they're not important enough ..

i highly doubt u can name few programs like that you're referring to Nick

Gambling , pharma and financial affiliate programs.

[slavdogg]

Gambling , pharma and financial affiliate programs.

no doubt, there are dozens of programs like that in those markets
some legal, some not. I assumed you meant adult programs.

now are you running any of those programs ??
hit me up if u do or if u want to recommend them to us.
otherwise why post about em.

[Nickatilynx]

no doubt, there are dozens of programs like that in those markets
some legal, some not. I assumed you meant adult programs.

now are you running any of those programs ??
hit me up if u do or if u want to recommend them to us.
otherwise why post about em.

Nope I don't have any proggies at all.

Where do you ge that I'm recommending them from this post???

""Interesting...

I know a few affiliate programs that you will never see advertising.

Never see someones banner in there sig.

And must pay out fortunes every week.

And all they tell you is "here's the url..here is the stats page"

No other help at all."""

[Vick]

However they don't want to chime in on business because:

a.) no fucker listens..
b.) they will get in a moronic piss with someone without a clue
c.) there comments will be lost in the 100 "great programs" , "Awesome" "congratulation" posts...

:)


Or why I don't post new ideas .....

.... they'll get copied soon enough without me giving the blue print somewhere

[Nickatilynx]

Or why I don't post new ideas .....

.... they'll get copied soon enough without me giving the blue print somewhere

The most valid reason there is..

[Biggy]

slavik, i know of one adult program like that.
hit me up on ICQ for the details and I am not bullshitting if you are interested.
My ICQ: 110850739

[Osiris]

I'm not into goth chicks..in fact I want to punch them...but that is neither here nor there.

I just realised one of the things I do when I find an unfamilar affiliate program is go I look to see if they list who the people involved are, with a bio.

If they don't I don't join.

I look to see if there is a phone number contact and a physical address that looks like a real office.If there isn't one , I don't join.

My reasoning is it appears they are being run out of a back bedroom somewhere.

Would you trust someone who you have no info about , who seem to be undercapitalised to owe you 50k? I wouldn't.

Also I don't and will not join a Rev Share program.Most whales won't unless they know the person well.

If I see Rev share solely ( No paypaersignup option) I again suspect the program is undercapitalised.

Just some general thoughts..

Ok, back to what I was going to say, some of at least. I forgot everything I did have..



When you're right, you're right. We don't have an external office outside of the house, and we are way under capitalised. I believe the guy that is "supposed" to be our partner does it the same way and has a successful revshare program from what I know. Again, my definition of success and yours is probably entirely different.

Why don't whales like revshare? If the sites convert/retain members that's long term income. I thought that would be well accepted by people that like to make money, guess I was wrong?


Nowhere near what I had typed out yesterday, oh well. Maybe it'll come back to me as we continue.

[TheEnforcer]

Why don't people like rev share as much as PPS? It's a simple little ecomnomic concept called the time value of money as shown here.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/03/082703.asp

[Nickatilynx]

Ok, back to what I was going to say, some of at least. I forgot everything I did have..



When you're right, you're right. We don't have an external office outside of the house, and we are way under capitalised. I believe the guy that is "supposed" to be our partner does it the same way and has a successful revshare program from what I know. Again, my definition of success and yours is probably entirely different.

Why don't whales like revshare? If the sites convert/retain members that's long term income. I thought that would be well accepted by people that like to make money, guess I was wrong?


Nowhere near what I had typed out yesterday, oh well. Maybe it'll come back to me as we continue.

Some might like revshare.

Personally I don't.

It means trusting the sites processor. ( not a risk I want to take)

It also means trusting the ability of the site operator to retain , update his sites etc etc. ( not a risk I want to take)

Instead of sending to Revshare programs basically back in the day I thought fuck it.

I'll build my own paysites.

That worked pretty well too.

I mean from a whales point of view...

so what does it take to build your own paysite with great content and a half decent design...4k? hmmm hire your own designer and build 15 different front ends all drawing from the same content pool....

[Osiris]

Some might like revshare.

Personally I don't.

It means trusting the sites processor. ( not a risk I want to take)

It also means trusting the ability of the site operator to retain , update his sites etc etc. ( not a risk I want to take)

Instead of sending to Revshare programs basically back in the day I thought fuck it.

I'll build my own paysites.

That worked pretty well too.

I mean from a whales point of view...

so what does it take to build your own paysite with great content and a half decent design...4k? hmmm hire your own designer and build 15 different front ends all drawing from the same content pool....


Alright, I see what you're saying. :okthumb:


TheEnforcer, it's understandable in the example to take the 1 time payment of 10,000 vs. annual payments of 2k over a 5 year period, just an example. But it doesn't quite work like that with revshare. With revshare, as long as the site converts and you can build up and maintain 10k a month, that's 10k per month for as long as the site rebills. :)

[MorganGrayson]

I appreciated this thread. I already knew several ways of looking at a sponsor program, with regards to the TOS, contact information, availability and quality of marketing tools, etc., but I appreciated the glimpse into "undercapitilization," which was something that frankly, I hadn't considered.

The all important "yes, but will I get paid?" question.

Sending your traffic, especially if it's precious and you can't afford to make a mistake, to a sponsor who can't afford to set up a professional office does indeed sound a little iffy. Everyone has to start somewhere, true, but not with my traffic.

I liked the enumeration of the strikes against RevShare, Nick. Thank you.

[Osiris]

Nick, wouldn't PPS be the same in the sense of processors? I mean, if a PPS only has one processor, and that processor went out of business, that sponsor might not be able to pay. Didn't this happen with a few PPS programs before?

[Nickatilynx]

Nick, wouldn't PPS be the same in the sense of processors? I mean, if a PPS only has one processor, and that processor went out of business, that sponsor might not be able to pay. Didn't this happen with a few PPS programs before?

It does happen.

So you lose a weeks traffic.....

With a Revshare you have lost the major profit element you hoped to earn by taking the long money

[Nickatilynx]

""TheEnforcer, it's understandable in the example to take the 1 time payment of 10,000 vs. annual payments of 2k over a 5 year period, just an example. But it doesn't quite work like that with revshare. With revshare, as long as the site converts and you can build up and maintain 10k a month, that's 10k per month for as long as the site rebills. ""

Whats your average earn per join?

[TheEnforcer]

Alright, I see what you're saying. :okthumb:


TheEnforcer, it's understandable in the example to take the 1 time payment of 10,000 vs. annual payments of 2k over a 5 year period, just an example. But it doesn't quite work like that with revshare. With revshare, as long as the site converts and you can build up and maintain 10k a month, that's 10k per month for as long as the site rebills. :)

Ok, lets take a look at that then. How many signups would it take to get to that 10K/month rebill status? I don't feel like doing the math but it would be a shitload of them to be sure and it would take quite a bit of time. While building that money up someone could be sending the same signups to a PPS and getting much more up front money with which they can put back into their business to grow it faster than they could than using a rev share. Don't gte me wrong, as I think it's a good idea to have at least one or two in the mix just in case, but PPS allows you to grow up your business at a much quicker pace than a rev share does.

[Osiris]

""TheEnforcer, it's understandable in the example to take the 1 time payment of 10,000 vs. annual payments of 2k over a 5 year period, just an example. But it doesn't quite work like that with revshare. With revshare, as long as the site converts and you can build up and maintain 10k a month, that's 10k per month for as long as the site rebills. ""

Whats your average earn per join?

PPS: $35
Revshare: $10-$15



Enforcer, good points!

[TheEnforcer]

PPS: $35
Revshare: $10-$15



Enforcer, good points!


I think he's talking about what your average TOTAL value for a signup is for rev share. IE- over the life of your average recurring member how much money do you make off of them?

[Osiris]

I think he's talking about what your average TOTAL value for a signup is for rev share. IE- over the life of your average recurring member how much money do you make off of them?


Derrrrr! LOL

Ok, depending on the site a member usually stays on average 3 months. So 30.00-45.00

[Nickatilynx]

Derrrrr! LOL

Ok, depending on the site a member usually stays on average 3 months. So 30.00-45.00

OK sparky....

LOL

You do the math....

I can have $35..RIGHT NOW! No risk. You can go bankrupt the day after my wire comes in... ;-))

Or I can wait 3 months to collect between $5 LESS or $10 more....

Hmmm...wonder what anyone in their right fucking mind would pick...

;-))

[Nickatilynx]

You are new to this huh???

..let me help ya a tad...

""Recent test we have done show that the average earn to a revshare webmaster would be $57.84 over the life of the member"

;-))

[Osiris]

You are new to this huh???

..let me help ya a tad...

""Recent test we have done show that the average earn to a revshare webmaster would be $57.84 over the life of the member"

;-))


Mind saying what program that's with?


Maybe I'm seeing things wrong. But I see no harm in building up a nice recurring, month after month 5-10k income. It may take a little while to get there. But once it's there, it's there if the members you get stay. This depends on the sponsor also.

I like PPS, I'm just trying to understand the beef people have with revshare.. :)

[TheEnforcer]

It's not so much a beef as it is as that a business can be built faster under PPS with less risk.

[Nickatilynx]

Mind saying what program that's with?


Maybe I'm seeing things wrong. But I see no harm in building up a nice recurring, month after month 5-10k income. It may take a little while to get there. But once it's there, it's there if the members you get stay. This depends on the sponsor also.

I like PPS, I'm just trying to understand the beef people have with revshare.. :)

ummmm it isn't from a program..its what you SHOULD be saying about the one you are marketing ..because you just said on Revshare I may make less per join than from your PPS LOL

;-))))

and by your own figures you are saying I will earn 30 -45 per join..on YOUR revshare model....but it will take me three months to get that return

I'd take the $35 now...

[Osiris]

I'm starting to see the light.. :okthumb:

[sudden]

If a program can make $55-60 from a signup on average, there's going to be programs that pay $35 per signup upfront - why take revshare?

The only reason I can think of, would be if there was a program that converted outrageously high - and only offered revshare. But chances
are if they did convert that well, it wouldn't take long for them to arrange for a funds reserve to be able to do upfront PPS.

[Anthony]

If a program can make $55-60 from a signup on average, there's going to be programs that pay $35 per signup upfront - why take revshare?

The only reason I can think of, would be if there was a program that converted outrageously high - and only offered revshare. But chances
are if they did convert that well, it wouldn't take long for them to arrange for a funds reserve to be able to do upfront PPS.

You've been getting my skype's? Need wiring info.

Thanks mate!

[Jeremy]

Only using revshare is like *only* using console-free links.

Revshare sign-ups make $28 - $30 over the life of a member.

Add in that a $30 full-price sale is much harder to convert than a $4.95 trial (which may be evened out by the PPS shave) and it becomes clear that PPS is the only way to go.

There may be the odd site / program where you can make more than $30 on revshare, but the relative cost of finding them makes it prohibitive.

[Timon]

If a program can make $55-60 from a signup on average, there's going to be programs that pay $35 per signup upfront - why take revshare?

The only reason I can think of, would be if there was a program that converted outrageously high - and only offered revshare. But chances
are if they did convert that well, it wouldn't take long for them to arrange for a funds reserve to be able to do upfront PPS.

The one advantage of revhare is that Epoch is much better at counting than most paysite owners are :p

[voodooman]

The one advantage of revhare is that Epoch is much better at counting than most paysite owners are :p

Ok, here you got the THAN correct, but you failed at revhare which I believe you meant revshare.

;)

[Timon]

Ok, here you got the THAN correct, but you failed at revhare which I believe you meant revshare.

;)

Damn you're slipping!

4 errors in that one sentence and you only found one?!?
You missed you're, loser, it's and off. http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/wwww.gif

ooohhh the burn, the pain.... I can't watch this humiliation any longer... :o

[Jeremy]

Ok, here you got the THAN correct, but you failed at revhare which I believe you meant revshare.

;)

I think he actually meant revHAIR, which is the 50-50 (60-40?) split Drav and Sarettah have done with their follicles.

[Nickatilynx]

The one advantage of revhare is that Epoch is much better at counting than most paysite owners are :p

If the join gets to epoch :)

[MorganGrayson]

I think he actually meant revHAIR, which is the 50-50 (60-40?) split Drav and Sarettah have done with their follicles.

WHOA! And Jeremy burns for two! :okthumb:

:burn:

I love it when usually polite, articulate men come slamming out with a burn. It's sexy as hell, frankly! :yowsa:

[Dravyk]

I think he actually meant revHAIR, which is the 50-50 (60-40?) split Drav and Sarettah have done with their follicles. Jeremy, I used to like you at one time.

:eatme:

[Jeremy]

Morgan: *burp* *scratch* *fart* huh, wassat? It's like y'know, like.... y'know? *sniff*

Drav: I was going to write that "we still wuv ooo" but I figured that probably wasn't going to make you feel any better whatsoever.

[MorganGrayson]

Morgan: *burp* *scratch* *fart* huh, wassat? It's like y'know, like.... y'know? *sniff*

Drav: I was going to write that "we still wuv ooo" but I figured that probably wasn't going to make you feel any better whatsoever.

Actually, Jeremy, I think you made *two* of us take a health plunge with that post. :blink:

You can go back to being polite and articulate now. Please. :unsure:

[DannyCox]

and back when I started in 1996/1997 is this...

In 1996 the vast majority of people involved in this games ambition was to make millions a year , minimum 250k a yr.

Now the vast majority ambition is to make beer money or just around the same as they could make at a "real" job.

It is a major difference in mindset.

I would agree with you for 1997, but 1996 was a totally different time. The concept of sponsorship had just started, and very few were actually doing it. Xpics came out with the monthly percentage share of a set amount based on traffic sent, and Webpower started their $0.01 Raw Click promotion. It was very late 1996 and early 1997 when we saw the jump into higher pay-outs and PPS.

In 1996, we didn't fully understand what we had or where we were going. None of us "knew" this business as it was still in it's infancy, so we all ended up pioneering various techniques for traffic, conversion and retention. Many of which are still employed to this day. We had the handful of serious businessmen, and a lot of "Playas" (sounds like today, doesn't it) who were happy riding on the coattails of others, and making their "beer money".

With the demise of the original YNOT message board, and the proliferation of other webmaster boards, the real bullshit and cock-swinging started. The "Big Boys" were all trying to out do one another with higher and higher pay-outs, seeing huge revenue but taking a massive hit on pay-outs (just never made business sense to me). That was 1997.

I always stayed fairly quiet and behind the scenes, and have enjoyed good success all these years. My mindset in this is still the same as it was back when we started making real money; maximize revenues and minimize expenses to obtain true profit.

We still get people coming to us all the time thinking they can just throw up a website and get rich. Truthfully, I doubt the average person just coming into this today can even make beer money! People look at our success and think they can do it too. They tend to forget that we have been doing this for over eleven years now, and paid our dues those first few years. They also expect you to hold their hands, and guide them through the learning curve involved. While I'm happy to give basic advice, like most I keep the good stuff I know close to me.

I just consider myself an average "webmaster", but these days I just work on projects that hold an interest to me. My "cash cows" are out there running well, which gives me the ability to "play" with new ideas. We are still more than willing to work with others on projects, but we do tend to be selective on what we work on and who we work with.

[Dravyk]

*burp* *scratch* *fart* huh, wassat? It's like y'know, like.... y'know? *sniff* For a moment there, I thought Inabon was posting! :p

[selena]

I think he actually meant revHAIR, which is the 50-50 (60-40?) split Drav and Sarettah have done with their follicles.

Point awarded!:wnw:

[sarettah]

Point awarded!:wnw:

:hmm: