Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....

[sarettah]

Sorry bout that, but it is.

We are no different than anything else in nature.

We are born and we die.

Beginning of it and end of it. Period.

[Trev]

Sorry bout that, but it is.

We are no different than anything else in nature.

We are born and we die.

Beginning of it and end of it. Period.
It must be shit being old and having no hope of anything after this. :(

[Newton]

You just need a big ol hug from Dravyk don't ya :D

[Sysprod]

All that hippy stuff must have gotten to him...

http://www.badgeplanet.co.uk/badges_large/peace-1.jpg

[sarettah]

It must be shit being old and having no hope of anything after this. :(

lololololololololololol...........

It is the hope of something more afterwards that keeps you tied down. The realization that "This is it" is freedom :okthumb:

[sarettah]

You just need a big ol hug from Dravyk don't ya :D


Ok, you have now convinced me that there is a hell :blink:

[sarettah]

All that hippy stuff must have gotten to him...


I hate fucking hippies :mad:


Or is that herpes ? I always get those two confused :blink:

[Red]

lololololololololololol...........

It is the hope of something more afterwards that keeps you tied down. The realization that "This is it" is freedom :okthumb:


I don't think it's hope of something afterwards, it just makes sense that there is an afterlife. Look at it this way,
the body is made up of chemical and electrical energy.
Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, just transformed.
Anyone that has had someone die in their arms, knows the feeling of that energy leaving the body(some consider it the soul, I'm giving it scientific terms for those in doubt of spirituality)
So where does it go? Why not into another housing?

[Newton]

Like a pair of hippie sandals?

[sarettah]

I don't think it's hope of something afterwards, it just makes sense that there is an afterlife. Look at it this way,
the body is made up of chemical and electrical energy.
Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, just transformed.
Anyone that has had someone die in their arms, knows the feeling of that energy leaving the body(some consider it the soul, I'm giving it scientific terms for those in doubt of spirituality)
So where does it go? Why not into another housing?

All natural things have energy that is constantly being recycled. Those things in nature that we recognize as "living" go through a life cycle (birth-life-death). As we observe from the world around us, when a "living" thing dies and you put the living thing into the ground, it's chemicals, molecules, etc are absorbed thus passing the kinetic energy inherent in those particles into the soil where when/if it is picked up, it helps in the life cycle again.

There is no reason to suspect that "WE" still exist within that energy. "WE" are a structure of thoughts/memories/whatever stored within the cells of our brains. When those cells die (or enough of those cells die) "WE" cease to exist.

The energy continues, "WE" do not.

[Timon]

Did you run out of thread topics? :p

[TheEnforcer]

It must be shit being old and having no hope of anything after this. :(


Why is it that someone assumes that because you don't believe in an afterlife that it must bug you somehow? :scratchin

[sarettah]

Did you run out of thread topics? :p

lolol..Nopers. I wanted to post it yesterday in Nick's thread about the church stuff but didn't want to hijack the thread :)

[PornoDoggy]

Why is it that someone assumes that because you don't believe in an afterlife that it must bug you somehow? :scratchin
What does belief in an afterlife have to do with spirituality?

[TheEnforcer]

All natural things have energy that is constantly being recycled. Those things in nature that we recognize as "living" go through a life cycle (birth-life-death). As we observe from the world around us, when a "living" thing dies and you put the living thing into the ground, it's chemicals, molecules, etc are absorbed thus passing the kinetic energy inherent in those particles into the soil where when/if it is picked up, it helps in the life cycle again.

There is no reason to suspect that "WE" still exist within that energy. "WE" are a structure of thoughts/memories/whatever stored within the cells of our brains. When those cells die (or enough of those cells die) "WE" cease to exist.

The energy continues, "WE" do not.


:okthumb:

[Nickatilynx]

Once you have kids ,TE, you will believe there is an afterlife.Deperately and passionately.

:)

[Trev]

Why is it that someone assumes that because you don't believe in an afterlife that it must bug you somehow? :scratchin
I didn't say it was bugging him. I said it must be shit.

[Peaches]

Once you have kids ,TE, you will believe there is an afterlife.Deperately and passionately.

:)
Once you have a child that dies, believing in the afterlife is one of the few things that keeps you going.

[Newton]

I truthfuly believe you will meet your friends and family in an afterlife, some ethereal plain, and its important to have that faith.

[Timon]

Once you have kids ,TE, you will believe there is an afterlife.Deperately and passionately.


Let's hope it's not like in the bible because you and I are so not going to heaven :unsure:

[Trev]

Let's hope it's not like in the bible because you and I are so not going to heaven :unsure:
Confess and have your sins forgiven :)

[sarettah]

Believeing in something, no matter how much solace it provides, does not make it true.

And I do not necessarilly prescribe to the notion that it is ok to believe what you want to believe.

[Nickatilynx]

Once you have a child that dies, believing in the afterlife is one of the few things that keeps you going.

Absolutely.

The thought actually crossed my mind as I posted.

[Nickatilynx]

Believeing in something, no matter how much solace it provides, does not make it true.

And I do not necessarilly prescribe to the notion that it is ok to believe what you want to believe.

Why not?

If you truly believe.....

The moon is green
Jennifer Aniston loves you
You have a huge dick and are the worlds greatest lover

And it hurts no one else, why the hell not believe it?

[Peaches]

Believeing in something, no matter how much solace it provides, does not make it true.

And I do not necessarilly prescribe to the notion that it is ok to believe what you want to believe.
Not believing in something doesn't mean it doesn't exist either so it seems like you DO prescribe to the notion that it's ok to believe what you want to believe :)

[MorganGrayson]

It's interesting to watch people debate topics that can't be proven either way.

The fervor of a "born again atheist" is as...interesting...as a "born again Christian."

I used "interesting" in lieu of "oh, for fuck's sake, don't you have anything to DO today?"

[sarettah]

And it hurts no one else

Aye, there's the rub. :okthumb:

[TheEnforcer]

What does belief in an afterlife have to do with spirituality?


Ask Trev, he's the one who said It must be shit being old and having no hope of anything after this :(

[DrGuile]

I agree with Sar on this one. Dust to freakin' dust...

Also, I applaud Sar for the courage to post his convictions.

You were nothing before you were born, why would you be anything after you are dead? Depressing? Maybe... but also very driving and puts things in perspective...


Make the most of your life, this isnt a dress-rehearsal for the next one.

[Peaches]

I've always found it "interesting" see people tell others what they should and shouldn't believe in. It's like telling someone their tastes in women is wrong, their favorite color is wrong, they don't like the right kind of house, they don't love the right people, etc.

You are what you are :)

[DrGuile]

I don't think it's hope of something afterwards, it just makes sense that there is an afterlife. Look at it this way,
the body is made up of chemical and electrical energy.
Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, just transformed.
Anyone that has had someone die in their arms, knows the feeling of that energy leaving the body(some consider it the soul, I'm giving it scientific terms for those in doubt of spirituality)
So where does it go? Why not into another housing?

:yowsa:

That's scientific like Im a 40 year-old MILF.

Oh man, you probably got "signed up" in a few cults eh?

[Trev]

Ask Trev, he's the one who said
I didn't mention spirituality at all. I'll ask again: DO YOU EVEN READ OPRANO!

[Trev]

I've always found it "interesting" see people tell others what they should and shouldn't believe in. It's like telling someone their tastes in women is wrong, their favorite color is wrong, they don't like the right kind of house, they don't love the right people, etc.

You are what you are :)
Exactly, each to their own. :)

[Nickatilynx]

I've always found it "interesting" see people tell others what they should and shouldn't believe in. It's like telling someone their tastes in women is wrong, their favorite color is wrong, they don't like the right kind of house, they don't love the right people, etc.

You are what you are :)

Yeah , I used to be one of the most vocal on subjects like that. LOL

Now I have already achieved a form of heaven......

The ability to think "I don't give a fuck"...and say "Well good luck to them"

And mean both.

:)

[MorganGrayson]

I've always found it "interesting" see people tell others what they should and shouldn't believe in. It's like telling someone their tastes in women is wrong, their favorite color is wrong, they don't like the right kind of house, they don't love the right people, etc.

You are what you are :)

The good people of San Diego have been having a right holy war over a cross that's part of a memorial to WWII soldiers on Mount Soledad. The memorial is on state/local/something owned land, and the atheists group is up in arms over it violating the Constitution. Now, this is one of those many points where being right gets you nowhere. This happy Pagan is lucky: don't give a shit. The damn thing has been there forever, it was put up as a memorial, and frankly, I don't think we have enough of those.

My daughter was one of the six Goths (that's right, count 'em, six) in her high school who were pulled into the principals office to get chewed out for their attire. One of them was wearing an upside down pentacle, indicating her religious preference for Satanism. Now, rather than do what any adult who'd actually *met* a teenager before would have done, which is say "how 'bout you drop that puppy inside your shirt and knock of the deliberate scaring of people, which we both know is what you're doing" this asshole rips into her, causing her to calmly state her First Ammendment religious rights. (I see the fine hand of my own child in this. She was raised on the First Ammendment, and I doubt seriously this other poor kid was.) Well, any time a teenager has to tell the principal about the Constitution, bad things happened. Once again, being right gets you zip. Nothing. Nada.

There's a list of "acceptable" religions that have rights. If you're not on the list, you're in trouble.

This is off topic, yes, but I do enjoy the debates/discussions Opranauts have on religion.

I may not agree with what the atheists are saying, but I'll fight to the death for their right to say it.

[sarettah]

Yeah , I used to be one of the most vocal on subjects like that. LOL

Now I have already achieved a form of heaven......

The ability to think "I don't give a fuck"...and say "Well good luck to them"

And mean both.

:)


I didn't say you couldn't reach heaven. :yowsa:

[TheEnforcer]

Once you have kids ,TE, you will believe there is an afterlife.Deperately and passionately.

:)


I don't doubt that having kids is a wonderful thing and heard kids alter your view on life. If I ever get remarried and have kids you never know, maybe I'll find out. :)

[TheEnforcer]

I didn't say it was bugging him. I said it must be shit.

Isn't that saying the same thing? :scratchin Being "shit" is a bad thing and you say it MUST be shit so one can only assume you mean that it sucks not believeing in an afterlife which would mean it would bother a person.

[sarettah]

I've always found it "interesting" see people tell others what they should and shouldn't believe in. It's like telling someone their tastes in women is wrong, their favorite color is wrong, they don't like the right kind of house, they don't love the right people, etc.

You are what you are :)

I have not said what anyone should or should not believe in. You have the "right" to believe whatever you want to.

That doesn't mean it's ok :okthumb:

[MorganGrayson]

Yeah , I used to be one of the most vocal on subjects like that. LOL

Now I have already achieved a form of heaven......

The ability to think "I don't give a fuck"...and say "Well good luck to them"

And mean both.

:)

You're a parent, Nick, so you know what I call "that sound." When you're somewhere else in the house and you hear your children laughing and playing together happily. In that moment, you know what it must be like to be God. (Using "God" as a catch-all "Diety" term here.) You don't want your kids sitting at your feet all the time staring up at you adoringly. You'd trip over them constantly. You don't want them nattering at you to solve all their problems, you want them to learn to use their own problem solving skills. You sure as hell don't want them to be afraid of you. You want them to get along with *each other.*

When my eldest and my youngest met for the first time, one was 29, one was 19. (Long, sad, scary story; not relevent to the current topic.) They met at the airport. The eyed each other then stretched out their hands to the lengths of their arms to shake hands. In the car on the way home, I tapped my husband and whispered "can you hear that?" He nodded. His eyes were glistening, too. "That sound" was coming from the back seat. They didn't bond so much as fuse. I felt like God. I brought them both into the world then thanks to - hell, a miracle - I got to hand them over to each other.

I've logged a lot of time in hell. Now I have "a form of heaven."

[TheEnforcer]

Confess and have your sins forgiven :)

Ahhhhh.. I love talking about this topic!!


Let's take Timon who basically says he is SOOOO not going to heaven!! ;) Or make it easier and someone who is in prison for murder and truly repents and confesses their sins.

Then lets take someone who is a good and pure person who lives their lives in accordance to every one of the commandments EXCEPT that they refuse to believe in God.


According to the bible the second person doesn't have a chance of getting into heaven even though they have lived a virtuous life and contributed to society. And it all boils down to that one little thing... not believing in God.

[Trev]

Isn't that saying the same thing? :scratchin Being "shit" is a bad thing and you say it MUST be shit so one can only assume you mean that it sucks not believeing in an afterlife which would mean it would bother a person.
I'll expand on my post:

It must be frightening being old and the only thing you've got is your wife, your dope and the idea that one day it's all over.

I'll take having my wife, my son and the hope that when I pass I'll be re-united with all my family and friends, while I watch over my loved ones still here.

Hmmm.... I guess you're right... I do think it must be shit/suck being like you, Sar and DrGuile.... :hmm:

[Newton]

Dear TE ;)

[MorganGrayson]

I don't doubt that having kids is a wonderful thing and heard kids alter your view on life. If I ever get remarried and have kids you never know, maybe I'll find out. :)

TE...you will be astounded at how much having kids alters your views on life. It does that to everyone. You go from thinking about life from your own perspective to having every action, every decision measured against "how will this effect my children?" It's wonderful, frightening as hell and exhausting.

Isn't that saying the same thing? :scratchin Being "shit" is a bad thing and you say it MUST be shit so one can only assume you mean that it sucks not believeing in an afterlife which would mean it would bother a person.

When a person who *does* believe in an afterlife attempts to get his/her head around *not* believing in one, they do feel it sucks. They're projecting their own feelings, as it isn't possible for them to grasp what the other person feels. It's one of the ultimate "apples and oranges" situations. Doesn't make one right and the other wrong, it just makes it difficult for the two to understand what the other one feels.


I have not said what anyone should or should not believe in. You have the "right" to believe whatever you want to.

That doesn't mean it's ok :okthumb:

:bitchslap

Quit that, scrumptious! :wub:

[MorganGrayson]

Ahhhhh.. I love talking about this topic!!


Let's take Timon who basically says he is SOOOO not going to heaven!! ;) Or make it easier and someone who is in prison for murder and truly repents and confesses their sins.

Then lets take someone who is a good and pure person who lives their lives in accordance to every one of the commandments EXCEPT that they refuse to believe in God.


According to the bible the second person doesn't have a chance of getting into heaven even though they have lived a virtuous life and contributed to society. And it all boils down to that one little thing... not believing in God.

50 points to whomever can come up with the text to the poem that starts out "Abu Ben Adam, may his tribe increase."

I encountered it in high school. It covers this very topic and wonderfully. It helped form one of the bricks in my own personal theological foundation.

[TheEnforcer]

Believeing in something, no matter how much solace it provides, does not make it true.

And I do not necessarilly prescribe to the notion that it is ok to believe what you want to believe.


See, now here is where you and I disagree. I think it is perfectly ok to believe in what you want to believe. I may not believe but I would never force that belief on others. I will happily dicuss/debate the issue if it is brought up by somebody but I won't actively go out and try and change their minds about the issue unless it's a topic they wish to actively debate/discuss. Even then it is more about stating my opinion rather than trying to change their mind. It's none of my damn business. Who am I to try and take away someones belief that they hold dear and helps them through the course of their life? Especially when the issue is one that basically can't be settled until one dies.

My wife and I used to discuss this issue constaantly as she believes in God stronger than anybody I have ever known. We both enjoyed, and actually still talk about the issue, talking about it quite a bit but I never actively tried to change her mind on the issue because it isn't my place to do so. I respect her greatly for her belief because I know of no one who tries to live up to that belief every day of their life more than she does.

[TheEnforcer]

It's interesting to watch people debate topics that can't be proven either way.

The fervor of a "born again atheist" is as...interesting...as a "born again Christian."

I used "interesting" in lieu of "oh, for fuck's sake, don't you have anything to DO today?"


This topic is one of the most exhilirtating topics to talk about at ANY time IMHO. Maybe it's the Philosophy major in me but I can talk about theological and philosophical issues all day and every day!! :)

[TheEnforcer]

I've always found it "interesting" see people tell others what they should and shouldn't believe in. It's like telling someone their tastes in women is wrong, their favorite color is wrong, they don't like the right kind of house, they don't love the right people, etc.

You are what you are :)

I agree wholeheartedly with that statement Peaches. I'l debate the issue with anyone who wants to talk about it but I never do it with the intention of actively trying to change their belief but rather why i believe the way I do. What works for one does not necessarily work for another. :)

[Newton]

This topic is one of the most exhilirtating topics to talk about at ANY time IMHO. Maybe it's the Philosophy major in me but I can talk about theological and philosophical issues all day and every day!! :)

What are your fundamental beliefs chap? Why are we here?

[TheEnforcer]

I'll expand on my post:

It must be frightening being old and the only thing you've got is your wife, your dope and the idea that one day it's all over.

I'll take having my wife, my son and the hope that when I pass I'll be re-united with all my family and friends, while I watch over my loved ones still here.

Hmmm.... I guess you're right... I do think it must be shit/suck being like you, Sar and DrGuile.... :hmm:


See, believing there is nothing after this life doesn't bother me one bit. Maybe it is hard for you to understand but it's true. I find it bizarre that someone could think it frightens/bothers me that I won't have an afterlife.

[Nickatilynx]

You can chose ...

IMO , heaven or hell is in each and everyone of you.

TE , I feel sorry for you mate , anyone reading your posts can see you are bitterly unhappy. :(

Try and find something you can believe in.Anything.

:)

[Trev]

See, believing there is nothing after this life doesn't bother me one bit. Maybe it is hard for you to understand but it's true. I find it bizarre that someone could think it frightens/bothers me that I won't have an afterlife.
Then I guess we'll carry on as before. You happy with yours and me happy with mine.

I do find it interesting that you say "won't" and not "don't".

[TheEnforcer]

What are your fundamental beliefs chap? Why are we here?


I'm a big bang, evolution advocate, no afterlife atheist who hass a mixture of heavy doses of liberal and libertarian beliefs, with a bit of conservative ones thrown in as well, about life. :) As to the why we are here... it's because in the whole of the universe the billions upon billions of possibilities led us to where we are today and that it is quite arrogant to believe that in the vastness that is space we are the only ones in it with intelligence.

[TheEnforcer]

You can chose ...

IMO , heaven or hell is in each and everyone of you.

TE , I feel sorry for you mate , anyone reading your posts can see you are bitterly unhappy. :(

Try and find something you can believe in.Anything.

:)


I appreciate those kind of posts because I know them to be heartfelt. :)

[Nickatilynx]

I appreciate those kind of posts because I know them to be heartfelt. :)

It really is.

Cheer the fuck up!!! lol

[sarettah]

I may not believe but I would never force that belief on others.

Bullshit. You force your beliefs on the world around you in every decision you make.

[Nickatilynx]

Bullshit. You force your beliefs on the world around you in every decision you make.

And as for you!!!!

You are happy enough , you old git...just mischievious LOL

[Trev]

Bullshit. You force your beliefs on the world around you in every decision you make.
That's garbage, I've just decided to make a pot of coffee, the rest of the world was unaware until just now...

[MorganGrayson]

That's garbage, I've just decided to make a pot of coffee, the rest of the world was unaware until just now...

Yep. I was totally unaware of Trev's coffee making.
Unless, of course, his desire to make a pot of coffee was triggered by *my* making a pot of coffee a bit ago. :blink:

I wonder what else I can make Trev do? :yowsa:

[sarettah]

That's garbage, I've just decided to make a pot of coffee, the rest of the world was unaware until just now...

You can cause damage without being aware you are causing damage.

You can become damaged without being aware that you are damaged.


"For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" Sir Isaac Newton circa a whole long time ago

[sarettah]

That's garbage, I've just decided to make a pot of coffee, the rest of the world was unaware until just now...


Secondary Response:

What did the coffee think about that ? :blink:

[sarettah]

it is quite arrogant to believe that in the vastness that is space we are the only ones in it with intelligence.

A small correction if I may:

it is quite arrogant to believe that on this planet we are the only ones with intelligence.

:okthumb:

[Trev]

You can cause damage without being aware you are causing damage.

You can become damaged without being aware that you are damaged.


"For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" Sir Isaac Newton circa a whole long time ago
So you're applying a law of force to decision making... mkay then :blink:

[Trev]

Secondary Response:

What did the coffee think about that ? :blink:
The coffee was a little upset at the lack of a press release announcing it's pending arrival.

[TheEnforcer]

Bullshit. You force your beliefs on the world around you in every decision you make.

I'm talking about going out and actively trying to chnage minds and trying to convert everyone to my atheistic beliefs. It's really quite simple.

[MorganGrayson]

A small correction if I may:

it is quite arrogant to believe that on this planet we are the only ones with intelligence.

:okthumb:

Bigger correction: it's quite arrogant to believe that we have any "intelligence" whatsoever.

I'm a big bang, evolution advocate, no afterlife atheist who hass a mixture of heavy doses of liberal and libertarian beliefs, with a bit of conservative ones thrown in as well, about life. :) As to the why we are here... it's because in the whole of the universe the billions upon billions of possibilities led us to where we are today and that it is quite arrogant to believe that in the vastness that is space we are the only ones in it with intelligence.

I'm curious: you've tied several things together here. I'm a religious person, who believes in evolution. (I'm a little leery of "The Big Bang" theory and will be until someone explains to me exactly what it was that went "bang.") I don't believe in a "grand design" kind of "why are we here?" thing. There's a reason why you are here; there's a reason why I am here, etc - but they aren't the same reasons. I also don't believe we're the only ones in the universe. Gaia - or we could use "Mother Nature" here - isn't big on waste. A huge universe with absolutely nothing or no one in it seems like a terrible waste of space, not to mention being boring as hell. I don't believe in a boring universe, either.

[Peaches]

When I make a decision to poot it causes large tidal waves on the other side of the world. I can't prove it though ;)

[PornoDoggy]

I admit that this thread surprised me – I did not know Sar was a Moslem. (“They was all Moslems, Tom said, and when I asked him what a Moslem was, he said it was a person that wasn't a Presbyterian. So there is plenty of them in Missouri, though I didn't know it before.” Huck Finn (Mark Twain), Tom Sawyer Abroad, Page 1, Paragraph 5)

Belief in an afterlife is not a prerequisite for achieving quality of life. The fact that I do or don't believe in a state of existence subsequent to this one has no bearing on whether this existence is worth enduring.

Why are we here?

Because we are.

It is really that simple.

That's a hard one for people to accept. After all, at least in the West, as children we are taught that "because is not an answer."

Except that sometimes it is. As usual, the fucking grownups were lying.

I dunno about the whole idea of God. Grew up a Christian. Might have read a book or two about other concepts - I'm sure the library records are now in my file in Washington. :)

It's all just man trying to wrap his head around the whole "why are we here" question, and having been programmed that "because is not an answer" by the lying fucking adults, he comes up with something else (even if that something else is "there is no point"). Then ego kicks in, and the holder of idea A has to denigrate the holder of idea B to make himself feel better about his own uncertainty.

So I dunno what’s true or what’s not true. I am an Agnostic. If you can't prove your idea to me by putting something in my hand, or showing me something under a microscope or in a telescope, then your idea is no better than his or hers or mine. Smug nonbelievers are no more and no less insufferable than smug believers.

What do I believe?

In a silly-ass song from the play "Hair" is a line that goes "I believe in God, and I believe that God believes in me."

To crudely paraphrase a discussion between Anna and the King of Siam, "seven days or seven million years, the miracle of creation is the same."

And to quote a wise man, "Sometimes the light is shining on me, and other times I can barely see. Lately it occurs to me what a long strange trip it's been."

Essentially, that has been the gist of my "theology" since 1970.

Thus endeth the reading of the Word.

Bird is the word.

Um-papa uuuh moow moow.

[sarettah]

So you're applying a law of force to decision making... mkay then :blink:


Is a decision an "action" ?

If you make a decision (any decision) are there consequences ?

If you fail to make a decision (which is by default making a decision) are there consequences ?

Yes, the laws of motion can be applied to decisions.

[PornoDoggy]

Is a decision an "action" ?

If you make a decision (any decision) are there consequences ?

If you fail to make a decision (which is by default making a decision) are there consequences ?

Yes, the laws of motion can be applied to decisions.
A decision is not an action.

Deciding I need coffee from the store does not get the coffee here.

[Trev]

Is a decision an "action" ?

If you make a decision (any decision) are there consequences ?

If you fail to make a decision (which is by default making a decision) are there consequences ?

Yes, the laws of motion can be applied to decisions.
No they can't, the laws of force and motion are just that - the laws of force and motion.

You're statements answer themselves:

If you make a decision (any decision) are there consequences?

If you fail to make a decision (which is by default making a decision) are there consequences?

Decisions and actions have consequence... they aren't equal or opposite though.

[MorganGrayson]

Why are we here?

Because we are.

It is really that simple.

That's a hard one for people to accept. After all, at least in the West, as children we are taught that "because is not an answer."

Except that sometimes it is. As usual, the fucking grownups were lying.



I was luckier. I was raised Roman Catholic, where "it's a mystery" was the stock answer for most questions in Catechism class. The "no answer" answer. Even has a kid I knew that meant "we haven't got a fucking clue."

We're here because we're supposed to be...if we weren't supposed to be, we wouldn't be. Why are we supposed to be? No fucking clue.

One of the most comforting, wonderful ephiphanies I ever had in my life was the realization that I don't have to know. I'm not in charge. Whoever or whatever the Supreme Being is, I know for certain it isn't me. Therefore, the universe will unfold exactly as it should without any understanding or intervention on my part. I can sit back and enjoy the ride.

I like the ride. From where I'm sitting I can look out my living room window and watch hawks ride the air currents and hummingbirds feed off the jade plant. Discussing theology with Opranauts is a nice thing to do on a day when the sun is shining and the birds are flying.

[sarettah]

A decision is not an action.

Deciding I need coffee from the store does not get the coffee here.


The logical conclusion of the decision "I need coffee from the store" is to somehow put your body/mind/whatever into motion to obtain the coffee from the store, not getting the coffee.

If you do not decide that you need coffee then the logical conclusion is that you will not get into motion to obtain the coffee and if in fact there was no coffee in your pantry then you would end up out of coffee.

So, in fact each decision is an action and each action produces a reaction.

action: decision - I need coffee from the store.
reaction: body/mind goes into motion to obtain coffee.

action: decision - I will use the car to go to the store to get the coffee.
reaction - grab car keys and head for the door.

etc etc so on so forth ad infinitum....

[OldJeff]

Decisions are not actions, acting on a decision is.

It is every bit as arrogant, and ignorant to say "THERE IS NO AFTERLIFE" as it is to say "THERE IS ONE".

Truth is we simply do not know. But we are gonna find out, maybe, maybe not.

[sarettah]

No they can't, the laws of force and motion are just that - the laws of force and motion.

You're statements answer themselves:

If you make a decision (any decision) are there consequences?

If you fail to make a decision (which is by default making a decision) are there consequences?

Decisions and actions have consequence... they aren't equal or opposite though.


A consequence is merely the result of an action or a reaction. The presence of a consequence affirms the presence of the action.

And they are opposite and equal :okthumb:

[OldJeff]

action: decision - I need coffee from the store.
reaction: body/mind goes into motion to obtain coffee.

action: decision - I will use the car to go to the store to get the coffee.
reaction - grab car keys and head for the door.

etc etc so on so forth ad infinitum....

Nope your reactions are the actions in these statements

[Trev]

A consequence is merely the result of an action or a reaction. The presence of a consequence affirms the presence of the action.

And they are opposite and equal :okthumb:
So by that thinking it must be true that for every person that decides you're a mental cocksucker, there is a person the decides you're a sane pussy licker... Sorry but it doesn't work that way.

[PornoDoggy]

The logical conclusion of the decision "I need coffee from the store" is to somehow put your body/mind/whatever into motion to obtain the coffee from the store, not getting the coffee.

If you do not decide that you need coffee then the logical conclusion is that you will not get into motion to obtain the coffee and if in fact there was no coffee in your pantry then you would end up out of coffee.

So, in fact each decision is an action and each action produces a reaction.

action: decision - I need coffee from the store.
reaction: body/mind goes into motion to obtain coffee.

action: decision - I will use the car to go to the store to get the coffee.
reaction - grab car keys and head for the door.

etc etc so on so forth ad infinitum....

A decision is a mental process (I need coffee).

An action is a physical process (I go get coffee).

The decision has no impact UNLESS you take action.

If a decision was an action, I would have lost 75 pounds and no longer consume tobacco products.

I have made the decision that I need to loose weight many times. I have made the decision that I need to quit smoking many times.

My failure to take subsequent actions to effect those changes does not negate the decision.

The decision that you need coffee has an impact on no one.

The action of going to get coffee can impact many people. If, for example, you run over a cop in a crosswalk the impact of your actions (leaving the house, starting the car, blah blah blah) will ripple around you.

[pushpills]

Everyone can believe in whatever they want, educating them to my standpoint isn't much of a concern to me. A wise man once said "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

Anyway, as far as my beliefs go, I think we just regenerate through the dirt that we rot in, but I accept the possibility of a god. However, I highly doubt he/she/it would be so vein as to punish me for all eternity for not singing in praise and believing 100% in him/her/it without much scientific proof.

[sarettah]

Nope your reactions are the actions in these statements


Au contraire, the decision was the action. To make the decisions all sorts of electrons flowed across synapses to form the thoughts. That is the action. The reaction to the thought process is taking the step that the decision calls for.

[Trev]

Au contraire, the decision was the action. To make the decisions all sorts of electrons flowed across synapses to form the thoughts. That is the action. The reaction to the thought process is taking the step that the decision calls for.
You really are an argumentative old shit aren't you. ;)

[Red]

:yowsa:

That's scientific like Im a 40 year-old MILF.

Oh man, you probably got "signed up" in a few cults eh?

I'm not saying it's a proven scientific theory, I'm just saying it makes sense.
I've had a few experiences that lead me to believe that there is something more and that we each go through many incarnations.

The reason I believe that our "essence", if you will, travels with you is this.
When I was 19, I was in the hospital with a blood clot in my leg. At one point, I had fallen into the deepest sleep I had ever experienced and felt myself floating above my body. (before this occured, I had absolutely no belief in astral projection) I saw the doctor come into my room and have a conversation with my mother. She was telling him that my breathing didn't look right. I remember fighting, trying to wake up. When I finally did, I repeated the entire conversation my mother and the doctor had, told them exactly what they had been doing while talking. They sent me down for a lung scan and found the blood clot had moved to my lungs and I was very close to death. Most people who have been with a loved one when they die say that they can feel the spirit leave the body.

Also when I was in my 20's I was a participant in a study at the University of Pennsylvania dealing with hypnosis and past lives. I discovered 2 previous lives. At the time I still wasn't sure how much of it to believe, but around that time my mother had been at a friends house who also happened to have another friend there who is a psychic. She was not there as a "psychic" she was simply there because she was a friend of my mother's friend. Anyway, she was talking to mom and asked to hold her wedding ring. She got very few impressions of my mother, but a ton of impressions about me. She told my mother I was a very old soul and told her about my past lives. She described exactly what I had experienced. I had never met this woman, nor had I told my mother about the hypnosis.

So go ahead and call me crazy, but I have my reasons.

[MorganGrayson]

A decision is a mental process (I need coffee).

An action is a physical process (I go get coffee).

The decision has no impact UNLESS you take action.

If a decision was an action, I would have lost 75 pounds and no longer consume tobacco products.

I have made the decision that I need to loose weight many times. I have made the decision that I need to quit smoking many times.

My failure to take subsequent actions to effect those changes does not negate the decision.

The decision that you need coffee has an impact on no one.

The action of going to get coffee can impact many people. If, for example, you run over a cop in a crosswalk the impact of your actions (leaving the house, starting the car, blah blah blah) will ripple around you.

*writer tip toeing into the fray*
You all have excellent points, but I believe I'm siding with sarettah on this one. Why? I put the reasons in bold. The verb you used. You "made" a decision. An action. You even referred to the actual dieting as "subsequent actions." Not *the* action, another action. There is quite a point to actions being only in the physical world, but I think it's too narrow a definition.

[sarettah]

So by that thinking it must be true that for every person that decides you're a mental cocksucker, there is a person the decides you're a sane pussy licker... Sorry but it doesn't work that way.


Equals and opposites are not always easy to discern.

If we accept that the exact opposite of a "mental cocksucker" is a "sane pussylicker" then yes your statement would stand as sound. But since the opposite and equal of a "mental cocksucker" could possibly be manifested many ways, while your logic may be sound your statement is not true. :okthumb:

[OldJeff]

Au contraire, the decision was the action. To make the decisions all sorts of electrons flowed across synapses to form the thoughts. That is the action. The reaction to the thought process is taking the step that the decision calls for.


By this statement the decision must be the reaction of the electrons flowing.

[MorganGrayson]

"There are more things in heaven and in earth than are spoken of in your philosophy, Horatio."
~Shakespeare

[sarettah]

A decision is a mental process (I need coffee).

An action is a physical process (I go get coffee).

The decision has no impact UNLESS you take action.

If a decision was an action, I would have lost 75 pounds and no longer consume tobacco products.

I have made the decision that I need to loose weight many times. I have made the decision that I need to quit smoking many times.

My failure to take subsequent actions to effect those changes does not negate the decision.

The decision that you need coffee has an impact on no one.

The action of going to get coffee can impact many people. If, for example, you run over a cop in a crosswalk the impact of your actions (leaving the house, starting the car, blah blah blah) will ripple around you.

You may have decided that you need to lose weight which would be one of the first actions taken in the process. You subsequently decided, for whatever reason, not to take the additional action necessary to lose the weight. However, if you never decided that you need to lose the weigth, then you wouldn't lose it unless of course as the result of some other action such as a virus infection where you don't eat.

The decision itself is an action as much as anything else we do.

While we are alive we are in constant motion, we are incapable of NOT taking action every nanosecond that we live and breath.

[Trev]

Equals and opposites are not always easy to discern.

If we accept that the exact opposite of a "mental cocksucker" is a "sane pussylicker" then yes your statement would stand as sound. But since the opposite and equal of a "mental cocksucker" could possibly be manifested many ways, while your logic may be sound your statement is not true. :okthumb:
It's not my logic, it was my attempt at trying to understand yours.

Human actions are not bound by the laws of motion.

[sarettah]

By this statement the decision must be the reaction of the electrons flowing.


Did the thought cause the flow, or did the flow cause the thought ?

Or neither ? :yowsa:



Cogito ergo sum Or Sum ergo Cogito ?

[PornoDoggy]

*writer tip toeing into the fray*
You all have excellent points, but I believe I'm siding with sarettah on this one. Why? I put the reasons in bold. The verb you used. You "made" a decision. An action. You even referred to the actual dieting as "subsequent actions." Not *the* action, another action. There is quite a point to actions being only in the physical world, but I think it's too narrow a definition.
You did a good job of identifying the crux of the problem: "There is quite a point to actions being only in the physical world, but I think it's too narrow a definition."

I think the distinction between mental and physical is of the utmost importance.

Deciding I need to lose weight is a mental process. Medically, I have a doctor who tells me that every time I see him, so the decision is based on scientific fact.

I accept the suggestion of the doctor. It is true that I need to lose weight.

It is very true that the logical next step is to take subsequent actions to accomplish that.

But I'm a human being. What is logical is not always what I will do.

Thus, the decision means nothing without action.

[sarettah]

It's not my logic, it was my attempt at trying to understand yours.

Human actions are not bound by the laws of motion.


Humans are above the law ? :blink:

[Trev]

Humans are above the law ? :blink:
I am. ;)

[sarettah]

You did a good job of identifying the crux of the problem: "There is quite a point to actions being only in the physical world, but I think it's too narrow a definition."

I think the distinction between mental and physical is of the utmost importance.

Deciding I need to lose weight is a mental process. Medically, I have a doctor who tells me that every time I see him, so the decision is based on scientific fact.

I accept the suggestion of the doctor. It is true that I need to lose weight.

It is very true that the logical next step is to take subsequent actions to accomplish that.

But I'm a human being. What is logical is not always what I will do.

Thus, the decision means nothing without action.

Ah but you have not made the decision or actually accepted his word. If you truly accepted that you NEED to lose weight then you would make the decisions necessary to make that result happen. Since you are only giving the doctor lip service and don't really think you NEED to lose weight then you have subsequently made the decision to not take the additional steps necessary to make the weight loss happen.

[sarettah]

I am. ;)


I said humans :hmm:

[PornoDoggy]

Humans are above the law ? :blink:
Not at all.

Humans are not even close to understanding the reaction of the electrons flowing in their own brains.

We don't even know what laws apply.

[Dravyk]

A small correction if I may:

it is quite arrogant to believe that on this planet we are the only ones with intelligence.

:okthumb:Good luck and thank you for the fish. :)

[Dravyk]

Btw, I just read through about 100 posts. Can some one tell me WTF that old coot is talking about this time? A summary? :)




So far it seems to have something to do with coffee. :blink:

[Trev]

Btw, I just read through about 100 posts. Can some one tell me WTF that old coot is talking about this time? A summary? :)
I'd be surprised if he even knew. :unsure:

[Dravyk]

I'd be surprised if he even knew. :unsure:Ah, so it isn't my total lack of sleep. Good to know.

[MorganGrayson]

You did a good job of identifying the crux of the problem: "There is quite a point to actions being only in the physical world, but I think it's too narrow a definition."

I think the distinction between mental and physical is of the utmost importance.

Deciding I need to lose weight is a mental process. Medically, I have a doctor who tells me that every time I see him, so the decision is based on scientific fact.

I accept the suggestion of the doctor. It is true that I need to lose weight.

It is very true that the logical next step is to take subsequent actions to accomplish that.

But I'm a human being. What is logical is not always what I will do.

Thus, the decision means nothing without action.

PD, what you have done now is criticize the action and declare it invalid...not prove that it wasn't an action. It was an action lacking the necessary subsequent actions.

[TheEnforcer]

Good post PD! :>))

[PornoDoggy]

I've had some practice at this one.

This is a discussion that takes place around the tables of 12 step groups on a routine basis.

It's more than mere semantics.

If human beings were wired binary, a decision would be an action.

We ain't.

It ain't.

[Dravyk]

Is the chair casting a shadow or is the shadow casting a chair?




:gives9:


I'm Super Cunty today.

[MorganGrayson]

I've had some practice at this one.

This is a discussion that takes place around the tables of 12 step groups on a routine basis.

It's more than mere semantics.

If human beings were wired binary, a decision would be an action.

We ain't.

It ain't.

In a 12 Step Program it is necessary that decisions never be considered actions. The members would float on "well, I've made the decision to stop...whatever so I get points for that." No, you don't. Not in 12 Steps. In those programs, there are *specific* actions that must be undertaken.

[Newton]

I'm Super Cunty today.

Delightful ;)

[MorganGrayson]

Is the chair casting a shadow or is the shadow casting a chair?




:gives9:


I'm Super Cunty today.

Of course you are, dear. It's a day that ends in "Y." ;)

[Dravyk]

Of course you are, dear. It's a day that ends in "Y." ;) On another day, I'd laugh, give you a thumbs up and some points ....

Today, I'll just growl. :eh:

[PornoDoggy]

In a 12 Step Program it is necessary that decisions never be considered actions. The members would float on "well, I've made the decision to stop...whatever so I get points for that." No, you don't. Not in 12 Steps. In those programs, there are *specific* actions that must be undertaken.
If you want to get coffee or lose weight, there are specific actions that need to be taken.

Deciding you need coffee or are fat does not get you any Joe or any thinner.

[PornoDoggy]

And today is different from any other day because ... ? :whistling

[MorganGrayson]

If you want to get coffee or lose weight, there are specific actions that need to be taken.

Deciding you need coffee or are fat does not get you any Joe or any thinner.

No, that's true.
But I'm making a separation between the actions that isn't determined by the results. The decision to lose weight was one action; the subsequent action that actually causes the weight loss (which is in reality a series of daily decisions) is another.
One can have the first action and a failure to commit the subsequent actions.

[MorganGrayson]

Paraphrasing:

Hear the clash of tiny swords of semantics....

[PornoDoggy]

So ... if I decide I want to play professional baseball next summer, and draw a salary 10% higher than Roger Clemens - I've taken an action?

[MorganGrayson]

So ... if I decide I want to play professional baseball next summer, and draw a salary 10% higher than Roger Clemens - I've taken an action?

Yes. You have *made* a decision.
The fact that it is an asinine decision does not enter into it.

Most actions people take, mentally and physically, are rather asinine, as a perusal of the morning news will display.

[Dravyk]

I've made the decision that http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/sign_thistopicsucks.gif and the action of metaphysically hitting you all with a trout. http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/fish0111.gif

[MorganGrayson]

I've made the decision that http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/sign_thistopicsucks.gif and the action of metaphysically hitting you all with a trout. http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/fish0111.gif

*sigh*

...and taken the action of....

I hate it when bad things happen to good sentences. ;)

[Trev]

I really should have thought long and hard before uploading so many smilies :(

[sarettah]

If you want to get coffee or lose weight, there are specific actions that need to be taken.

Deciding you need coffee or are fat does not get you any Joe or any thinner.


You are right, deciding does not get you thinner. That is not the result of deciding. The result of deciding is whatever the next step in the process would be.

However, not deciding is also a decision and an action who's result is NOT the next ste[p in the process of losing weight.

We are the sum total of all decsions we have made.

[sarettah]

I really should have thought long and hard before uploading so many smilies :(


Each and every decision has it's consequence. You made your bed, now lie in it :yowsa:

[sarettah]

So ... if I decide I want to play professional baseball next summer, and draw a salary 10% higher than Roger Clemens - I've taken an action?

The action you have taken is "setting a goal", so yes.

[Trev]

Each and every decision has it's consequence. You made your bed, now lie in it :yowsa:
Please don't interupt me while I'm trying to decide how many smilies need deleting. :)

[Newton]

We are the sum total of all decsions we have made.

I fucking hate traffic wardens ..

[Sin]

Must suck having no belief system at all... I agree religion is bullshit but I don't think that spirituality is bullshit.

[sarettah]

Must suck having no belief system at all... I agree religion is bullshit but I don't think that spirituality is bullshit.


Define spirituality. :rolleyes:

[Sin]

For me its easier to just paste the summary of my personal beliefs.
(This is from another forum, non-adult, where a similar discussion was taking place)

Alright, since I do not believe in "a form of overseer or creator" I will start by trying to outline my own personal beliefs...

I really have no real recollection of when specifically I decided that I simply did not believe in a singular higher power. I was baptized, grew up in a religious family, went to church camps in the summer, was a member of CGIT... etc. At some point, however, I concluded that the notion of a singular higher power simply did not fit. I would rather use the terms "singular higher power" than "God" because for me "God" is associated with Christianity & to only acknowledge "God" is to disregard the existance of other organized religions which have existed just as long, if not longer.

When I look back at the theories of evolution, scientifically proven, they make sense. When I look at other science theories, how smaller pieces interact with one another to make a greater whole, it makes sense. Nowhere in our world, in any kind of level, does it make sense to have a singular higher power. Physically, we have protons & neutrons which make up the nucleus which is a part of atoms which compose molecules which compose matter, which plays whatever part it happens to have, in our physical realm, even if its as seemingly insignificant as a trashcan, it has its place in the room in the building the building has its place in the community, the community has its place in the country, the country has its place in the world/on earth, earth has its place in the universe... it goes on as so. Politically we have the children which are a part of the family which is a part of the community which leads up to the municipal government which leads up to provincial/state/whatever the system is level of government, which leads up to national government, which has its part in the global society again... everything interacts, everything plays a part of something even bigger. To me the idea of a single higher power that is due credit for 'creating' and then stepping back & having nothing else to do with us but play chess with our destinies, doesn't fit in the way nature itself, works. So many more examples could be brought up than the 2 I detailed above, which are extremely basic.

I do believe in a soul. I believe that yet again, our very presence here on earth is an integral part of a soul's development. Think back to the days when a classroom was not segregated by age rank, and everybody was in one room, one instructor, learning together. Enlarge that now.... Earth is our classroom, we are all the students, and we are all at different levels. We have all encountered people who without even trying can manage to somehow unintentionally make us feel small in comparison, or look up to them, and we've also on the other hand met or heard stories about yet other people who do things which shock and appall us because "Don't they know that's wrong?" --Chances are they don't know that's wrong. Chances are (in my personal belief system) that we're shocked & appalled because their behavior is something that our soul has already learned, in a past life. There are some things that parents, teachers, other mentor figureheads in our lives, don't tell us that we just KNOW is wrong. That knowledge, comes from our past experiences in this classroom we call earth. From other lives, from other lessons. Our soul will come back life after life after life, until it has grown up enough if you will, to move on past the classroom, past this earth, into yet even a bigger picture, a larger more matured 'soul system' if you will. Much like children go through school, to graduate, and become members of the community, each fulfills a different purpose.

I do believe in Karma. I'm putting this in a seperate paragraph because its a bit of a sidetrack. Lessons for a soul are not always going to be learned in one lifetime, I do not believe. I'll use Clifford Olson as my example... I do not believe that jail is karma for him. I do not believe that being in jail is teaching his soul anything, that he is truly learning the err of his ways. I believe that when he passes from this life, the particular lesson he's here to learn, will carry on to the next life, possibly lives. When he is here as a child, and dies a horribly violent death, perhaps one for each child he killed, when his soul comes back and is the parent of a child who is killed, that is when his soul will truly understand, when it will truly have learned, when it will come back & live a life & not kill again, it'll know not to... it will be here for another lesson, a different one.

That’s a summary

I could probably add plenty more detail to that if I felt like typing it all out, but hopefully that gives you all a general idea.

[sarettah]

For me its easier to just paste the summary of my personal beliefs.
(This is from another forum, non-adult, where a similar discussion was taking place)

Alright, since I do not believe in "a form of overseer or creator" I will start by trying to outline my own personal beliefs...

Autobigraphical stuff...........

Theory stuff.........

Soul stuff.........

Karma stuff............

That’s a summary

I could probably add plenty more detail to that if I felt like typing it all out, but hopefully that gives you all a general idea.

Ok, I read all of that (really I did) and I did not see any definition of spirituality in there. I saw a whole lot of stuff you believe and why you believe it, but previously you stated "I don't think that spirituality is bullshit", so if you could please elucidate as to what you consider "spirituality" to be, I will then shoot it down :yowsa: er, I mean, offer up my opinion on the matter :okthumb:

[Sin]

Ok, I read all of that (really I did) and I did not see any definition of spirituality in there. I saw a whole lot of stuff you believe and why you believe it, but previously you stated "I don't think that spirituality is bullshit", so if you could please elucidate as to what you consider "spirituality" to be, I will then shoot it down :yowsa: er, I mean, offer up my opinion on the matter :okthumb:

*WHOOSH*

....it all went over your head, I see.

I don't think spirituality is bullshit no, for me, the above is my idea of being spiritual, (of or pertaining to the spirit/soul)

You, however, don't believe in the presence of a soul it would seem, so naturally you'll disagree.

[sarettah]

*WHOOSH*

....it all went over your head, I see.

I don't think spirituality is bullshit no, for me, the above is my idea of being spiritual, (of or pertaining to the spirit/soul)

You, however, don't believe in the presence of a soul it would seem, so naturally you'll disagree.


So, in your definition of spirituality which you are so not giving me, it requires belief in a soul.

Ok, then would you define soul for me ? :unsure:

[Sin]

Sarettah, I am not going to spend hours trying to give definitions to things you don't believe in to start with. I'm not here to change your mind, you don't want to believe in the spirit or souls, that's fine with me. I do, & that's fine with me too. :)

[sarettah]

Sarettah, I am not going to spend hours trying to give definitions to things you don't believe in to start with. I'm not here to change your mind, you don't want to believe in the spirit or souls, that's fine with me. I do, & that's fine with me too. :)


I have not said anything in this thread as to what I believe or do not believe, if you found that in here, you (or some other commenter) put it here (and yes I will go back through and make sure of that).

I honestly cannot discuss spirtuality or the presence/absence of souls with someone without defining the terms first. It seems that each individual has decided that they have the right to assign whatever meanings they want to words. So, since I know what I mean when I say "spirituality" and "soul", I do not necessarilly know anything about what you mean when you use those words.

If it would take you hours to define, then you probably don't know what you mean either ;)

[Sin]

It would take hours to define, because you would keep on asking me to redefine it.

Check the first post on this page, for definition.

"Spirituality: of or pertaining to spirit / soul"

If either spirit or soul had a set definition beyond a personal interpretation of what it is, there wouldn't be any real choice about whether or not you're going to believe, it would be fact, not personal belief/interpretation/etc.

[Sin]

I have not said anything in this thread as to what I believe or do not believe, if you found that in here, you (or some other commenter) put it here (and yes I will go back through and make sure of that).



In regards to that, see first post in this thread.

Sorry bout that, but it is.

We are no different than anything else in nature.

We are born and we die.

Beginning of it and end of it. Period.

[MorganGrayson]

I have not said anything in this thread as to what I believe or do not believe, if you found that in here, you (or some other commenter) put it here (and yes I will go back through and make sure of that).


Check thread title....

[Sin]

Check thread title....

lol That too

[sarettah]

It would take hours to define, because you would keep on asking me to redefine it.

Check the first post on this page, for definition.

"Spirituality: of or pertaining to spirit / soul"

If either spirit or soul had a set definition beyond a personal interpretation of what it is, there wouldn't be any real choice about whether or not you're going to believe, it would be fact, not personal belief/interpretation/etc.


Well, of course if "spirit" is in the definition of spirituality then it needs to be defined. If spirit is synonymous with soul then one or the other has to be defined before an intelligent conversation can be had about it.

If your idea of spirit is "thought without physical presence" meaning ghosties and goblins and such then yes, I will label it as bullshit.

If spirit is definied as the inner lifeforce that all living things have then I would not label that as bullshit. It is a fact that we are driven by energy, we convert energy every nanosecond we are alive and when we die whatever energy is left in the physical parts that remain go back to the whole.

So, which definition of spirit are we using here ? :rolleyes:

[Nickatilynx]

Check thread title....

:okthumb:

I believe the yuts use the term..OWNED!!!!

:)

[sarettah]

Check thread title....

Response one:
The thread title is based in fact, not belief :okthumb:


Secondary response:
If my thread titles are taken as my beliefs then you guys have a really warped picture of me...lololol...

[sarettah]

:okthumb:

I believe the yuts use the term..OWNED!!!!

:)


Hi Yut :yowsa:

[sarettah]

In regards to that, see first post in this thread.


Again, where do you get my beliefs from in there.

I stated facts not beliefs. :yowsa:

[Sin]

Well, of course if "spirit" is in the definition of spirituality then it needs to be defined. If spirit is synonymous with soul then one or the other has to be defined before an intelligent conversation can be had about it.

If your idea of spirit is "thought without physical presence" meaning ghosties and goblins and such then yes, I will label it as bullshit.

If spirit is definied as the inner lifeforce that all living things have then I would not label that as bullshit. It is a fact that we are driven by energy, we convert energy every nanosecond we are alive and when we die whatever energy is left in the physical parts that remain go back to the whole.

So, which definition of spirit are we using here ? :rolleyes:

The latter definition you gave there. I don't believe in ghosties & goblins, I believe in "ghosties" in the sense that the energy of an individual can linger in an area after their physical form has passed, I've lived in a house where the original owners energy was still there & it was not 'hoaxy' it was quite noticeable not just to me, but my roommates, and any guests we had as well.

I don't believe in billowing white floaty things though.

[MorganGrayson]

Response one:
The thread title is based in fact, not belief :okthumb:


Secondary response:
If my thread titles are taken as my beliefs then you guys have a really warped picture of me...lololol...

Oh, for fuck's sake, sarettah...enough already!! My chain is curled up and safely put away and no longer available for the yank session you've got going.

"Thread title is based in fact, not belief" :blink:

Yeah, baby, sell those facts...pass that collection plate...sell those bibbles....

[Nickatilynx]

On the subject of ghosties...

I've never been grabbed by the ghosties , but I have been grabbed by the ghoulies.

[Sin]

Again, where do you get my beliefs from in there.

I stated facts not beliefs. :yowsa:

You stated beliefs.
You can neither disprove the presence of a spirit or soul anymore than I can prove it. It boils down to what we as individuals, choose to believe or disbelieve.

[Newton]

I have actually experienced a poltergeist at my ex sister in laws place in London .. saw a plank of wood she was using as a shelf with 3 or 4 books on, literally flip over several times which isnt possibly with the weight of the books on it .. was looking straight at it ..

Another time I was in a dark room with no light except for the moonlight .. saw 3 figures who were actually a lot darker than the black of the walls move along them, these were hooded figures with features that could be seen such as fingers creeping along the wall and about 5.5ft tall.

[Nickatilynx]

I've been at a seance that worked...

thing moved without anyone touching it in the end.Then flew in the air.

People lost their minds and a Clergyman came round and ripped into everyone that took part.

:(

[sarettah]

You stated beliefs.
You can neither disprove the presence of a spirit or soul anymore than I can prove it. It boils down to what we as individuals, choose to believe or disbelieve.

When someone in a laboratory setting can prove spirit or soul it will stop being bullshit, until then, all empirical evidence ppoints to the non existence of such, so it is bullshit.

As far as beliefs go. each person always has their own beliefs, often going in direct contradiction to established fact.

My daughter believes (for some reason) that if she ignores her credit card bills that they will somehow go away and not haunt her (lol...she even told me on one "oh, they'll just write it off"..I had to explain to her the implications of that)

Often people believe in God and spirits, etc because of personal proof (more often they believe it because the same person who told them about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny told them to believe it). That personal proof is often a "one time occurence" so it cannot be proven in any manner but the person will believe it wholeheartedly because they witnessed it and that is all the proof they need.

Facts just are.

[sarettah]

By the way. The way things work in the scientific world is that the burden of proof is on the claimant, as in those that claim something IS have to prove it IS, not the other way around. No matter how you try to flip flop it. :okthumb:

[Red]

When someone in a laboratory setting can prove spirit or soul it will stop being bullshit, until then, all empirical evidence ppoints to the non existence of such, so it is bullshit.

So does that mean that all the scientific facts we now know were all bullshit until they were proven?

[Sin]

Sarettah the problem that I have with that ideology is that if everybody thought that "What we have is all there is & all we know is all there is" is that things would never get invented.

I'm going to use electricity as an example. There was a time, when people did not know electricity. Does this mean that the potential for electricity to be created, was simply not there? No, it simply meant that it had not yet been discovered. Just because something cannot be scientifically explained at this point & time, does not mean that it won't at some point be able to, nor does it mean that it "doesn't exist"

The possibility is there, people just have to look for it. Those who do, have a better chance of finding it.

[MorganGrayson]

The possibility is there, people just have to look for it. Those who do, have a better chance of finding it.

:-pearl: My own personal pearl, if nothing else. :)

[sarettah]

Sarettah the problem that I have with that ideology is that if everybody thought that "What we have is all there is & all we know is all there is" is that things would never get invented.

I'm going to use electricity as an example. There was a time, when people did not know electricity. Does this mean that the potential for electricity to be created, was simply not there? No, it simply meant that it had not yet been discovered. Just because something cannot be scientifically explained at this point & time, does not mean that it won't at some point be able to, nor does it mean that it "doesn't exist"

The possibility is there, people just have to look for it. Those who do, have a better chance of finding it.

You do not need to believe that something is actually there to go look for it. I have never said "What we have is all there is & all we know is all there is" or anything near to it. There is so much we don't know that it dwarfs by many magnitudes what we actually do know.

That we don't know something is not a reason to make up a belief to fill in a gap.

[Lisa]

Oh, for fuck's sake, sarettah...enough already!! My chain is curled up and safely put away and no longer available for the yank session you've got going.

"Thread title is based in fact, not belief" :blink:

Yeah, baby, sell those facts...pass that collection plate...sell those bibbles....

Crikey! Morgan misspelt bibles? Sare, stop stressing the girl!

Morgan, this what you were looking for?

Abu Ben Adam (may his tribe increase)
Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace
And saw, within the moonlight of his room
Making it rich, like a lily in bloom
An angel writing in a book of gold.

Exceeding peace had made Abu Ben Adam bold
And to the presence in his room he said
'What writest thou?'
The vision raised its head
And with a look of all sweet accord
Answered: 'The names of those who love the Lord.

'And is mine one?' said Abu.
'Nay not so'
Replied the Angel:
Abu spoke more low But cheerily still and said
'I pray thee then
Write me as one that loves his fellow-men'
The angel wrote and vanished.

The next night It came again with awaking light
And showed the names of whom love of God had blessed.
And lo! Ben Adam's name led all the rest.

[sarettah]

(The Chink, in conversation with Sissy as to why he chases people away from Siwash Ridge.....)

"Meher Baba, Guru Maharaji, Jesus Christ and all the other holy men who amassed followers in recent times have had one gimmick in common. Each of them demanded unquestioning devotion. "Love me with all your heart and soul and strength and do my bidding without fail". That has been the common requirement. Well, great. If you can love someone with that completeness and that purity, if you can devote yourself totally and unselfishly to someone - and that someone is a benevolent someone - then your life cannot help being the better for it. Your very existence can be transformed by the power of it, and the peace of mind it engenders will persist as long as you persist.

"But it's therapy. Marvelous therapy, wonderful therapy, ingenius therapy, but only therapy. It relieves symptoms, ignores disease. It doesn't answer a single universal question or put a person one step closer to ultimate truth. Sure, it feels good and I'm for anything that feels good. I won't knock it. But let nobody kid himself: spiritual devotion to a popular teacher with an ambiguous dogma is merely a method of making existence more tolerable, not a method of understanding experience or even of accurately describing it.

"In order to tolerate experience, a disciple embraces a master. This sort of reaction is understandable, but it's neither very courageous nor very liberating. The brave and liberating thing to do is to embrace experience and tolerate the master. That way we might at least learn what it is we are experiencing, instead of camouflaging it with love.

"And if your master truly loved you, he would tell you that. In order to escape the bonds of earthly experience, you bind yourself to a master. Bound is bound. If your master relly loved you, he would not demand your devotion. He would set you free - from himself, first of all.

"You think I'm behaving like a cold-hearted ogre because I turn people away. Quite the contrary. I'm merely setting my pilgrims free before they become my disciples. That's the best I can do.

Sissy nodded in appreciation. "That's fine; that sincerely is fine; The only problem is, your pilgrims don't know that."

"Well, it's up to them to figure it out. Otherwise I'd be dishing them the same precooked and packaged pap. Everybody has got to figure out experience for himself. I'm sorry. I realize that most people require externalized objective symbols to hang on to. That's too bad. Because what they are looking for, whether they know it or not, is internalized and subjective. There are no group solutions! Each individual must work it out for themself. There are guides, all right, but even the wisest guides are blind in your section of the burrow. No, all a person can do in this life is to gather about him his integrity, his imagination and his individuality - and with these ever near him, out front and in sharp focus, leap into the dance of experience.

"Be your own Mater!
"Be your own Jesus!
Be your own flying saucer! Rescue yourself.
Be your own valentine! Free the heart!



(Even Cowgirls get the Blues...Tom Robbins)

[Dravyk]

*WHOOSH*

....it all went over your head, I see.Most things do for Sarettah. http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/blink.gif

Just like his hair. http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[TheEnforcer]

Ok, nice find there Lisa!!

Now, that isn't what the bible, or any religious orginization I know of that believes in the bible, teaches as to the requirements to get into heaven. Any time I have seen someone espouse a belief like that it is as someone who doesn't take the requirements from the bible but rather what they think a loving God would do. Someone who is more spirutual about their beliefs on God and not a "follower" of the bible so to speak. So...... Morgan.. if you could please elaborate I would greatly appreciate it...

[Vick]

Sorry bout that, but it is.

We are no different than anything else in nature.

We are born and we die.

Beginning of it and end of it. Period.


Your gift for the obvious brings a smile to my sensibilities

Well put and well done

[helix]

I feel compelled to share.
I am a frisbeetarian. We frisbeetarian believe that when you die, your soul departs your shell of a body and gets stuck on the roof.

[Dravyk]

I feel compelled to share.
I am a frisbeetarian. We frisbeetarian believe that when you die, your soul departs your shell of a body and gets stuck on the roof. ... Unless the Great Dog god catches you in his mouth and takes your body for a romp through the Eternal Park. :p

[helix]

... Unless the Great Dog god catches you in his mouth and takes your body for a romp through the Eternal Park. :p
true, true :)

[OldJeff]

By the way. The way things work in the scientific world is that the burden of proof is on the claimant, as in those that claim something IS have to prove it IS, not the other way around. No matter how you try to flip flop it. :okthumb:


You got it backwards

Einsteins theory of relativity has not yet been proven. Neither has Darwin, nor Big Bang, Nor anything about the dinosaurs.

Science starts with a hypothisis, and all actions taken are to DISPROVE the hypothisis. When disproval can not be found it is generally accepted as fact.

Relativity can not be proven until we see an object traveling the speed of light squared.

Same reason that the science world for decades said we evolved from monkeys, when more recent evidence points to our simply being a different branch of the evolutionary tree.

When I was a child Dinoraurs were reptiles, TRex stood straght up, and was the strongest hunter that walked the planet.

Recent evidence says birds, standing would break its spine, and it was a huge vulture.

[sarettah]

You got it backwards

Einsteins theory of relativity has not yet been proven. Neither has Darwin, nor Big Bang, Nor anything about the dinosaurs.

Science starts with a hypothisis, and all actions taken are to DISPROVE the hypothisis. When disproval can not be found it is generally accepted as fact.

Relativity can not be proven until we see an object traveling the speed of light squared.

Same reason that the science world for decades said we evolved from monkeys, when more recent evidence points to our simply being a different branch of the evolutionary tree.

When I was a child Dinoraurs were reptiles, TRex stood straght up, and was the strongest hunter that walked the planet.

Recent evidence says birds, standing would break its spine, and it was a huge vulture.

No, I don't have it backwards...lol... I think you misunderstood what I was addressing. I was addressing the fact that many people, if you ask them to prove there are ghosts will turn around and say "well, prove there aren't" as if that is a valid argument, which it is not.


I understand fully the scientific method and the fact that a theory is never actually proven. The beautiful thing about the scientific method is that it leaves things open to be challeneged and changed. The difference between science and a religion is that science is open to the challenge while religion allows no room for the challenge.

[MorganGrayson]

Crikey! Morgan misspelt bibles? Sare, stop stressing the girl!

Morgan, this what you were looking for?

Abu Ben Adam (may his tribe increase)
Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace
And saw, within the moonlight of his room
Making it rich, like a lily in bloom
An angel writing in a book of gold.

Exceeding peace had made Abu Ben Adam bold
And to the presence in his room he said
'What writest thou?'
The vision raised its head
And with a look of all sweet accord
Answered: 'The names of those who love the Lord.

'And is mine one?' said Abu.
'Nay not so'
Replied the Angel:
Abu spoke more low But cheerily still and said
'I pray thee then
Write me as one that loves his fellow-men'
The angel wrote and vanished.

The next night It came again with awaking light
And showed the names of whom love of God had blessed.
And lo! Ben Adam's name led all the rest.

That's IT! Thank you, Lisa! That one poem helped such an understanding settle on the mind of this confused Catholic brain-washed child. :)

(And no, I didn't misspell "Bibles." I deliberately wrote "bibbles.") :)

Now, I have to go pay up in points! :okthumb:

[Dravyk]

(And no, I didn't misspell "Bibles." I deliberately wrote "bibbles.") http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/smile.gif
Yeah yeah.

I bet when no one's looking you say "aminals" and "ghaspetti". http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[MorganGrayson]

Yeah yeah.

I bet when no one's looking you say "aminals" and "ghaspetti". http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/tongue.gif

No, but I do use one or two choice words in place of "Dravyk."
"Bestial necrophiliac" being one of my current faves. :hmm:

[Dravyk]

No, but I do use one or two choice words in place of "Dravyk."
"Bestial necrophiliac" being one of my current faves. http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/dry.gif Gee, whiz.

I remember when you were a nice, sweet, kind person ... :huh:








Boy, did that fucking suck!!! http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/rasp.gif

[MorganGrayson]

Gee, whiz.

I remember when you were a nice, sweet, kind person ... :huh:
Boy, did that fucking suck!!! http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/rasp.gif

*the taking a bow smilie that we don't have thanks to TREV goes here!*

Yes, I am working on my "dark side." I'd like to thank all the "little people" that are assisting me, especially the smallest of all...you. :bleh01:

(I do have to give total props to Dravyk and Boards Scanner (http://www.boardscanner.com/)for allowing me to totally annoy Trev by posting his name and setting off his inbox! Thanks, Drav! :okthumb: )

[Red]

(I do have to give total props to Dravyk and Boards Scanner (http://www.boardscanner.com/)for allowing me to totally annoy Trev by posting his name and setting off his inbox! Thanks, Drav! :okthumb: )

You can be such a little dickens. ;)

[MorganGrayson]

You can be such a little dickens. ;)

Thankee! :waving:

[MorganGrayson]

Ok, nice find there Lisa!!

Now, that isn't what the bible, or any religious orginization I know of that believes in the bible, teaches as to the requirements to get into heaven. Any time I have seen someone espouse a belief like that it is as someone who doesn't take the requirements from the bible but rather what they think a loving God would do. Someone who is more spirutual about their beliefs on God and not a "follower" of the bible so to speak. So...... Morgan.. if you could please elaborate I would greatly appreciate it...

OK, I believe this is the question you mentioned in the other thread. *sigh* Once again, I have to confess to doing nothing more than harassing sarettah. It wasn't a comment on the Bible, or religion, or anything other than his intensity with his "bullshit" comment that drew a lot of people in.

Oh, for fuck's sake, sarettah...enough already!! My chain is curled up and safely put away and no longer available for the yank session you've got going.

"Thread title is based in fact, not belief" http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/blink.gif

Yeah, baby, sell those facts...pass that collection plate...sell those bibbles....

*That's* why I spelled it "bibbles." I was teasing sarettah, not making fun of the Bible.

My humor fell flat, as it is oft to do lately.

I, personally, DO NOT believe that the Bible or the requirements of christian behavior espouse the ability to purchase your way into heaven, especially by giving to a church or television program. (What's the "camel, eye of the needle, rich man" quote?) I apologize to anyone who was offended by the mistaken impression I was mocking the Bible. The directives on what God would like from His children contained in the Bible are pretty much the directives contained in everybody's "Big Book."

I still have - and always will have - the Bible given to me as a child. It's a Catholic Bible, and therefore different than the King James Bible used by others...and much different than the flat out silly ones that are supposed to be "easier to understand." (I actually read one where "Ruth went in to make...pancakes...:blink: ) It's not my "instructions for life," it's a momento of my childhood.

Did I elaborate sufficiently, TE? If there are more questions, fire away. :)

[TheEnforcer]

Oh, you aren't going to ever get critisize of offend me by making humor of the bible!! LOL

I was merely commentating on the difference between "church going" believers and spiritual believers. Peoiple that are regular church goers and who subscribe to a particular "brand" of faith take the requirements of the bible as the absolute requirements for entry into heaven. The more extreme of those types do things like push for things like intelligent design to be pushed on your kids. People who are more of the spiriual belief and not regular church goers in nature like, which is what you seem to be, seem to take a more "this is what I believe God would do" appraoch and are much more open minded about those things.

Alas I am somewhat rambling but what I really was asking in a roundabpout way is how you thought, and WHY, that poem answers my criticism of the concept of God and entry into heaven? Because it seems to me that is more a PERSONAL belief on what you think God would do rather than what the bible teaches God does.

[TheEnforcer]

Also, I should make clear I am not talking about purchasing your way into heaven. A man such as Adolph Hitler, I know it's an extreme example, if he truly repented and asked for sincere forgiveness of his sins and embraced God before he died can "earn" his way into heaven but the same thing can't be said for a man who is as good as can be but absolutely refuses to believe in God right up until his last breath of life on this earth.

[Trev]

OK, I believe this is the question you mentioned in the other thread. *sigh* Once again, I have to confess to doing nothing more than harassing sarettah. It wasn't a comment on the Bible, or religion, or anything other than his intensity with his "bullshit" comment that drew a lot of people in.



*That's* why I spelled it "bibbles." I was teasing sarettah, not making fun of the Bible.

My humor fell flat, as it is oft to do lately.

I, personally, DO NOT believe that the Bible or the requirements of christian behavior espouse the ability to purchase your way into heaven, especially by giving to a church or television program. (What's the "camel, eye of the needle, rich man" quote?) I apologize to anyone who was offended by the mistaken impression I was mocking the Bible. The directives on what God would like from His children contained in the Bible are pretty much the directives contained in everybody's "Big Book."

I still have - and always will have - the Bible given to me as a child. It's a Catholic Bible, and therefore different than the King James Bible used by others...and much different than the flat out silly ones that are supposed to be "easier to understand." (I actually read one where "Ruth went in to make...pancakes...:blink: ) It's not my "instructions for life," it's a momento of my childhood.

Did I elaborate sufficiently, TE? If there are more questions, fire away. :)
What bible did you have as a child, was it the RSV or the NAB? :)

[MorganGrayson]

Oh, you aren't going to ever get critisize of offend me by making humor of the bible!! LOL

I was merely commentating on the difference between "church going" believers and spiritual believers. Peoiple that are regular church goers and who subscribe to a particular "brand" of faith take the requirements of the bible as the absolute requirements for entry into heaven. The more extreme of those types do things like push for things like intelligent design to be pushed on your kids. People who are more of the spiriual belief and not regular church goers in nature like, which is what you seem to be, seem to take a more "this is what I believe God would do" appraoch and are much more open minded about those things.

Alas I am somewhat rambling but what I really was asking in a roundabpout way is how you thought, and WHY, that poem answers my criticism of the concept of God and entry into heaven? Because it seems to me that is more a PERSONAL belief on what you think God would do rather than what the bible teaches God does.

That poem came to me when I was young. What I liked was reinforcement of my - at the time - belief that any god who'd want people to sit around at his feet worshipping him was kind of a lousy god. A god that wanted people to love other people was a pretty cool god. In the poem, which doesn't mention entry into heaven, it just says that God loves ben Adam best *because* he loves his fellow men.

All of my beliefs about the Goddess/God are personal beliefs. There is no "Wiccan Bible." We keep what is called a "BOS" (Book of Shadows, I have *no* idea why it's called that) that is a compendium of many things: our own beliefs, our own personal rituals, etc. (Heavy on the "etc.") Note: the whole "spell" thing comes from the "Craft," not the religion, and I'm not going there right now.

I mentioned the poem because I love it and I happened to think of it then. I, personally, found it impossible to believe in a "god" that wanted the things that some people have informed me the Bible says God wants. I'm going to have to scroll back after this to read what it was you said that you thought I was "answering." I tossed out more "comments" in this thread than "answers." I don't happen to believe that I have any answers to anything. I have lots of beliefs, and can even explain how they came to be, but as far as answers? Really short on those.

Everybody's religion - I consider the atheist's beliefs a religion, since I never got a good enough definition of the word "religion," I use it as a catch all word that covers just about anything - as their way of making it through life. If my set of beliefs turn out to be totally wrong, in every way, where is the harm? I've had my one and only life in happiness, harmed no one, and turned to dust. Whatever's out there, something or nothing, I doubt seriously it's a big yellow smilie going "neener, neener" because I got it wrong. (However, if a big yellow smilie is currently laughing his ass off because I wrote that, I'll cope with that, too.)

A long time ago I decided what the Goddess wanted from me personally. It's a belief that I'm very comfortable with. Does that mean I know what the Goddess/God/Fred/Whatever wants from you? Nope. It's not my job to know that. I'm in charge of me, and no one else.

How am I doing, TE? Any closer to answering whatever the question was? :)

[sarettah]

drivel drivel drivel............


Bullshit !











.

[Trev]

drivel drivel drivel............


Bullshit !











.
Can I please start deleting Sarettah's posts... pretty please. :yowsa:

[MorganGrayson]

What bible did you have as a child, was it the RSV or the NAB? :)

OK...I'm looking at the "St. Joseph Textbook Edition, Confraternity Version." I can't find either of those letter groupings on it anywhere. It was published in 1963. They were given to us because the monks ran an entire "oops" edition, and the pages that were left out/printed wrong/whatever had to be printed and added, so they gave them all out to Catechism kids.

[sarettah]

Can I please start deleting Sarettah's posts... pretty please. :yowsa:


Go right ahead. Get rid of the little bit of intelligence that remains here.

.

[Dravyk]

At least he admits it's only a little bit! :Crylol01:

[MorganGrayson]

Also, I should make clear I am not talking about purchasing your way into heaven. A man such as Adolph Hitler, I know it's an extreme example, if he truly repented and asked for sincere forgiveness of his sins and embraced God before he died can "earn" his way into heaven but the same thing can't be said for a man who is as good as can be but absolutely refuses to believe in God right up until his last breath of life on this earth.

Ah.

OK, I think we're on the same page now.

That isn't my belief. I don't believe that believing in a god would be necessary to get into this place called heaven. I can't believe in a god who would place more value on being worshipped than having people live a good life, doing the best they can with the incredible gift that's been given them.

When you give a gift to a child, sometimes the child is so overwhelmed with the gift he doesn't say thank you and sometimes is so absorbed in the gift he's no longer aware you're standing there. As making the child that happy was the desired result in giving the child the gift in the first place, I'm fine with the reaction.

I have a regrettable tendency to lapse into metaphor and analogy.

My concept of "heaven" is very different from the Christian/christian one, too.

[TheEnforcer]

Thanks for the post Morgan. Guess it's hard to answer because you are the type of believer I "get" so to speak. I don't understand "fundies" and such that are strict bible adherists.

[MorganGrayson]

Thanks for the post Morgan. Guess it's hard to answer because you are the type of believer I "get" so to speak. I don't understand "fundies" and such that are strict bible adherists.

I can't cope with them, either, sadly. It makes it difficult. I want to scream "stop quoting at me and have an original thought!" Definitely not done when one is visiting for coffee. :(

[sarettah]

Must be a wonderful way to go through life "I don't like how it really is, so I think I'll make something up to believe". why not ? I mean it doesn't hurt anybody does it ?


Straight out escapism all around me. I can't deal with what IS, so I will create a little playground in my mind and stay there...

la dee da... life is wonderful.......


















It's still bullshit.

[Trev]

OK...I'm looking at the "St. Joseph Textbook Edition, Confraternity Version." I can't find either of those letter groupings on it anywhere. It was published in 1963. They were given to us because the monks ran an entire "oops" edition, and the pages that were left out/printed wrong/whatever had to be printed and added, so they gave them all out to Catechism kids.
St. Joseph Textbook Edition, if it was after 1946 then it should be RSV (Revised Standard Version). Though it is available in NAB (New American Bible) now. :)

[MorganGrayson]

St. Joseph Textbook Edition, if it was after 1946 then it should be RSV (Revised Standard Version). Though it is available in NAB (New American Bible) now. :)

I read some of the front pages and it's revised all over the place, but doesn't seem to say "Revised Standard Version" on it anywhere. It certainly isn't the "New" anything.

It has more than its share of Mass cards for people for whom I still grieve, though. :( My scapular used to be in it, but that got lost in a move. :(

Straight out escapism all around me.

I'll wager you get a lot of that. ;)

[Lisa]

Thanks for the points Morgan. Tho I'm glad it doesn't COST you anything to give them to me. All I did was google what you posted, second search result, there it was! :)

[Dravyk]

Thanks for the points Morgan. Tho I'm glad it doesn't COST you anything to give them to me. All I did was google what you posted, second search result, there it was! :) Shhhh! Make her think you worked your ass off for it! ;)

[Trev]

Thanks for the points Morgan. Tho I'm glad it doesn't COST you anything to give them to me. All I did was google what you posted, second search result, there it was! :)
It can be set to do that... but if it was no one would get any points... you guys are still too tight to give them away for free. :scratchin



;)

[Dravyk]

It can be set to do that... but if it was no one would get any points... you guys are still too tight to give them away for free. http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/scratchinghead.gif

http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/wink.gif Yeah, that's right. Call everyone cheap!

Like that won't end up costing you points. http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Trev]

Yeah, that's right. Call everyone cheap!

Like that won't end up costing you points. http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/tongue.gif
It's a good job I've got access to stop that happening. :p

[MorganGrayson]

It can be set to do that... but if it was no one would get any points... you guys are still too tight to give them away for free. :scratchin



;)

It does need stating again that points given for a post are NOT deducted from one's own points. They're just freebie points you may lavish at will. :okthumb:

[Dravyk]

It does need stating again that points given for a post are NOT deducted from one's own points. They're just freebie points you may lavish at will. http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/ok.gif Yes, speaking of religion, Oprano points are the metaphysical realization of the story of "The Loaves and The Fishes". http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/smile.gif

[MorganGrayson]

Yes, speaking of religion, Oprano points are the metaphysical realization of the story of "The Loaves and The Fishes". http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/smile.gif

Oh, for fuck's sake.... :bitchslap

[Dravyk]

Oh, for fuck's sake.... http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/bitchslap.gif Go have a Krispy Kreme, you irascible woman. http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/mf_tongue01.gif

[MorganGrayson]

Go have a Krispy Kreme, you irascible woman. http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/mf_tongue01.gif

Oh, now that was just cold, Dravyk. :mad:
(Luckily, I hate those pretenda-doughnuts.)

However, for good measure:

:nutkick:


LET'S ALL TALK ABOUT THE RELIGIOUS IMPLICATIONS OF DRAVYK'S TESTICLES!

We can start with Book 1, Genitals, the beginning of the "Old Testicles." :)

[Trev]

Oh, for fuck's sake.... :bitchslap
:okthumb:


Points for that ;)

[Trev]

Oh, now that was just cold, Dravyk. :mad:
(Luckily, I hate those pretenda-doughnuts.)

However, for good measure:

:nutkick:


LET'S ALL TALK ABOUT THE RELIGIOUS IMPLICATIONS OF DRAVYK'S TESTICLES!

We can start with Book 1, Genitals, the beginning of the "Old Testicles." :)
You're on a roll :okthumb:


Points again :)

[Dravyk]

We can start with Book 1, Genitals, the beginning of the "Old Testicles." http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/smile.gif Vaudeville didn't die; you murdered it! http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/blink.gif

[Dravyk]

You're on a roll :okthumb:

Points again :) Little minds are so easily amused. :p

[MorganGrayson]

Little minds are so easily amused. :p

Little testicles are so easily kicked. :nutkick:

I'm referring to the smilie of course. *I* certainly would not cast any aspersions against DRAVYK'S TESTICLES. :rolleyes:

I'm also unwilling to take the risk that those honkers are the size of basketballs and he's willing to prove it with a digital pic. Unh-huh. No way. :blink:

[Dravyk]

I'm also unwilling to take the risk that those honkers are the size of basketballs and he's willing to prove it with a digital pic. Unh-huh. No way. :blink:
Er, that chap would be known as YNOT Bob. :yowsa:

[MorganGrayson]

Er, that chap would be known as YNOT Bob. :yowsa:

Please do not tell me about the testicle size of people that I've actually met. :blink:

I'm funny that way.

See, you were supposed to zip back a zinging retort of some kind, not a real testicle discussion. I'm afraid I'm going to have to send you to your room and request that you reread the rule book on this sort of discussion.

[Dravyk]

Please do not tell me about the testicle size of people that I've actually met. http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/blink.gif

I'm funny that way.

See, you were supposed to zip back a zinging retort of some kind, not a real testicle discussion. I'm afraid I'm going to have to send you to your room and request that you reread the rule book on this sort of discussion. Yo, lady! You had no problem talking about mine, and we've met several times. Eeeeesh! http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/dry.gif

Hah! Yes, a real testicle discussion! You made your, um, testicle bed now, er ..., lie in it? http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/blink.gif

[MorganGrayson]

Yo, lady! You had no problem talking about mine, and we've met several times. Eeeeesh! http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/dry.gif

Hah! Yes, a real testicle discussion! You made your, um, testicle bed now, er ..., lie in it? http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/blink.gif

Yeah, but we were talking about yours in a theoretical sense...er...yanno...humor...not reality. When you whipped out...ok, that's not right...I mean mentioned...a remark about another person...I was kind of...yes, I know we've met several times...you've met my family, for heaven's sake...omigosh, I'm having a testicle mocking session with someone who's met my family...and here endeth all testicle discussions involving anyone, especially you. :blink:

I don't want to lie in a testicle bed...I don't want to lie in a testicle bed...out, out, damned spot...oh, what a horrific mental image that is....