Should we be worried?

[Robin]

It seems the US believes China is spending $90bn plus on Defense. How much do you think the US spends? $400bn plus. So China's already at about 25% of the US.

Chinese Defense Spending (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4351422.stm)

US Defense Spending (http://www.janes.com/defence/news/jdi/jdi050504_1_n.shtml)

You have to ask yourself why China needs to spend so much. It surely couldn't be because only half the world's oil is left...

[Almighty Colin]

I hope those numbers didn't come from the CIA.

[Winetalk.com]

they probably came from oil hyping groups
;)

[Robin]

they probably came from oil hyping groups
;)

Good comeback Serge. :)

But, seriously...

"In a speech, Mr Rumsfeld said China was expanding the reach of its ballistic missiles beyond the Pacific region to cover most of the world"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4359010.stm

[PornoDoggy]

I personally think we need to be paying more attention to them.

[Dravyk]

If they start putting MSG back into the food, we're all in trouble. :)

[Timon]

Keep the scale in mind folks... China has more soldiers to its disposal than the US has citizens, keeping all those folks fed and ensuring they have up to date equipment and enough ammo to play with probably takes up a very large part of that budget.



"In a speech, Mr Rumsfeld said China was expanding the reach of its ballistic missiles beyond the Pacific region to cover most of the world"



"In a speech, Mr Rumsfeld said Saddam was expanding the reach of its ballistic missiles beyond the Middle East to be able to deliver SARS and Bird Flu to Washington"

[Timon]

He's probably just trying to strong arm them into some trade agreement... creating bad sentiment towards the chinese is bad for the chinese economy... everyone reading this post is either wearing chinese garments or has at least some chinese parts in the pc he/she is reading this on :)

[Almighty Jim]

Is China the U.S.S.R of the 21st century?
Worse..they've combined Communism with Capitolism and they play by THEIR rules.
Time to make friends with em' on all levels.

[MorganGrayson]

I've always felt that one of the problems that will come out of the US focusing on a specific set of "enemies" is that it narrows our focus, causing us to forget the rest of the world.

Without even getting up I can lay my hands on a *lot* of things made in China. I hope they value their international trade enough.

[Dravyk]

I've always felt that one of the problems that will come out of the US focusing on a specific set of "enemies" is that it narrows our focus, causing us to forget the rest of the world.Problem is Bush can only count up to three. http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/blink.gif

[MorganGrayson]

Problem is Bush can only count up to three. http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/blink.gif

:o

Time to start building the bomb cellars in the back yard again.

[PornoDoggy]

Is China the U.S.S.R of the 21st century?
Worse..they've combined Communism with Capitolism and they play by THEIR rules.
Time to make friends with em' on all levels.
I have no problem making friends with them.

I also think the best way to stay friends with them is to not lure them into thinking they can fuck with us on any level.

Thinking that the blatant superiority we have in nuclear weapons will accomplish that is akin to the thinking that the Atlantic and Pacific would keep us out of World War II.

At the present, I believe that Arab extremists represent a threat level of 3 on a scale of 10.

I think China represents a 5, and that number goes up a full one every ten years.

[sarettah]

"In a speech, Mr Rumsfeld said China was expanding the reach of its ballistic missiles beyond the Pacific region to cover most of the world"


Um, Runsfeld's track record on accuracy has left much to be desired... :rolleyes:

[PornoDoggy]

Um, Runsfeld's track record on accuracy has left much to be desired... :rolleyes:
That's true ... but this is by no means new information. They have been engaging in this kind of research for decades, and I suspect that their acquisition of Soviet R&D materials aren't limited to submarine and naval assets.

The real problem is that the military that Rummy wants to build couldn't face China, and that could be the biggest mistake the United States has made in foreign policy - ever.

[sarettah]

They have had strike capablity for a while now. I don't know why we should be more afraid today then yesterday or last year.

Here is a report on what they already had back in 2000 including strike capabilities from mainland China covering most of the US. (I left the submarine stuff in there for you PD ;) )

http://www.comw.org/cmp/fulltext/iddschina.html

Intercontinental Nuclear Forces

China currently maintains a minimal intercontinental nuclear deterrent using land-based intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs). The Dong Feng-5 (DF-5) liquid-fueled missile, first deployed in 1981, has a range of 13,000 km and carries a single multi-megaton warhead. Twenty are believed to be deployed in central China, southwest of Beijing. Unlike China's earlier ballistic missiles, which were stored in caves and moved out for launch, the DF-5 can be launched directly from vertical silos—but only after a two-hour fueling process. In order to increase the survivability of the DF-5s, dummy silos are placed near the real silos. The DF-5's range gives it coverage of all of Asia and Europe, and most of the United States. The south-eastern US states are at the edge of the missile's range.

Two additional long-range ballistic missiles are in the development stage, the 8,000 km DF-31 and the 12,000 km DF-41. Both missiles are expected to be solid-fueled and based on mobile launchers. It is not known how many missiles China plans to deploy nor how many warheads the missiles may carry, but it is believed that China is hoping to deploy multiple nuclear warheads and penetration aids. These may be either multiple re-entry vehicles (MRVs) or the more capable, but technically difficult multiple independently-targetable re-entry vehicles (MIRVs). First deployment for the DF-31 could occur before 2005; the DF-41 is likely to follow, possibly around 2010.2

China's nuclear-armed naval forces are currently limited to one Xia Type 092 nuclear-powered and nuclear ballistic missile-equipped submarine (SSBN), which has a history of reactor and acoustic problems. The Xia can carry 12 Ju Lang-1 (JL-1) SLBMs with a single 200-300 kt warhead and a range of 1,700 km. Due to its technical limits, the Type 092 is never deployed outside regional waters.

China is reported to be planning to build four-to-six new Type 094 SSBNs. The Type 094 will introduce a safer, quieter reactor and better overall performance. It is expected to have 16 JL-2 missiles, capable of carrying up to six warheads per missile (probably MRVs that are not independently targetable). The initial launch date is supposed to be scheduled for 2002; but development of the JL-2 missile may take considerably longer because to date the land-based missile on which it based, the DF-31, has been test launched only once. If China were to employ a deployment rotation similar to that for US Navy SSBNs (three submarines for each one in target range, with one on station, one in transit, and one in refit), then six SSBNs would give China the ability to keep two submarines on station in the Pacific at all times, able to strike all of Asia, Europe, and North America.3 If the planned 6 submarines are built with the maximum number of warheads per missile, the number of total deployable submarine-based nuclear warheads will rise to 576. Even if the warheads were not independently targetable, the minimum number likely to be on station and capable of striking the United States would be 192—that is, enough to saturate the proposed light US national missile defense, which is now driving the Chinese strategic nuclear modernization and expansion program.

[PornoDoggy]

The technical term for submarine is "target." :D

[sarettah]

The technical term for submarine is "target." :D


Hmmm.. I always thought that target was a synonym for an airdale :rolleyes:

The only subs that were targets were the Russians, oh and the French. Oh, almost forgot, sometimes the Brits and occasionally a Canuck.

Hell, we even kept track of our own, so I guess you're right about that one :unsure:

[Sin]

China has been increasing its military spending by a double digit percentage (usually between 17-35% mark) for the last decade, their economy is on the boom & they can afford to up their military.

Not only are they upping the spending on their own military, right now they're also the single largest creditor to the US Defecit, they're basically paying for the war in Iraq.