Senate turns down an independent Katrina investigation

[Red]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/14/katrina.washington.ap/index.html

It's a long article, but here's some of it.

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Senate Republicans on Wednesday scuttled an attempt by Sen. Hillary Clinton to establish an independent, bipartisan panel patterned after the 9/11 Commission to investigate what went wrong with federal, state and local governments' response to Hurricane Katrina.

The New York Democrat's bid to establish the panel -- which would have also made recommendations on how to improve the government's disaster response apparatus -- failed to win the two-thirds majority needed to overcome procedural hurdles.

"Just as with 9/11, we did not get to the point where we believed we understood what happened until an independent investigation was conducted," Clinton said.

The Senate vote is hardly likely to be the last word on whether to create an independent commission or as an alternative a special congressional committee to investigate Katrina.

The 9/11 Commission was established in 2002 after resistance from Republicans and the White House, and opinion polls show the public strongly supports the idea.

In a CNN/USA Today Gallup poll taken September 8-11, 70 percent of those surveyed supported an independent panel to investigate the government's response to Katrina. Only 29 percent were opposed.

Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada, has rebuffed a bid by House and Senate GOP leaders to create a committee patterned after the 1987 Iran-Contra panel that would have a GOP majority -- reflecting their dominance of Congress.

Reid has instead vowed that any bid by Republican leaders to establish a special bipartisan committee involving lawmakers from both House and Senate will go forward only if Democrats have equal representation.

[XxXotic]

we need a commission to know that EVERYONE fucked up? what's to investigate? They knew it was coming, no one did anything before or for 5 days after the fact. Open and closed case.

god forbid congress actually govern or take care of it's people instead of politicizing everything.

[PornoDoggy]

Now, XxXotic ... it ain't that simple. Knowing that something went wrong doesn't address what went wrong. Where were the fuckups in the system that kept things from functioning?

How is it that, 4 years into spending billions of dollars at ALL levels of government to improve our disaster response, FEMA can dirvert truckloads of water from a local community as unneeded - when it was badly needed?

Congress is a political animal. It has always been a political animal. I hope to gawdamitey it STAYS a political animal. That's how we govern ourselves. Saddam Hussein never had to put up with that shit. North Koreans don't have to put up with that shit. I hope to hell we continue to have to put up with that shit.

I think the best thing that could happen is a 9/11 style independent commission with members of that same quailty. I don't dispute that most Congressional investigations turn into politics as usual, so making it independent would reflect the fact that this is more important than whether an overpaid athlete doping himself.

[XxXotic]

Now, XxXotic ... it ain't that simple. Knowing that something went wrong doesn't address what went wrong. Where were the fuckups in the system that kept things from functioning?

How is it that, 4 years into spending billions of dollars at ALL levels of government to improve our disaster response, FEMA can dirvert truckloads of water from a local community as unneeded - when it was badly needed?

Congress is a political animal. It has always been a political animal. I hope to gawdamitey it STAYS a political animal. That's how we govern ourselves. Saddam Hussein never had to put up with that shit. North Koreans don't have to put up with that shit. I hope to hell we continue to have to put up with that shit.

I think the best thing that could happen is a 9/11 style independent commission with members of that same quailty. I don't dispute that most Congressional investigations turn into politics as usual, so making it independent would reflect the fact that this is more important than whether an overpaid athlete doping himself.I agree with you in on a few of these points, but appointing a commision to investigate 9/11 accomplished nothing we didn't already know. It was, at best a waste of time and tax payer dollars. I think it's fairly obvious WHAT went wrong with Katrina, no one did a damn thing until a black mayor got on the news and lost his cool. We don't need a commission to tell us that. We don't need a commission to tell us that Dubya gave his buddies high profile jobs that they weren't qualified for. Brown isnt qualified enough to wipe my ass, let alone be a director for FEMA. When did this country forget the buck stops on one desk and one desk only? When did this country forget that the most important thing a president could do is to take responsibility for his actions? (or lack thereof)

We don't need congress to investigate this, congress does absolutely nothing but waste time and money worrying about shit we didn't elect them to worry about. I agree congress should be at each others throats all the time but in times like these, the last thing we need is to have New Orleans politicized. Dems won't do this unless, Repubs won't do that unless... it's bullshit. There's a point where you have to stop worrying about getting votes and where you start worrying about your voters. It's pretty sad when a Louisiana born General has to risk his career by taking charge of the New Orleans situation when no one else had the balls or the gumption to step up and do it themselves.

Investigating this isn't going to change anything, nor will it find the people who are actually responsible for this responsible, so what purpose does it serve other then grandstanding?

[Red]

There is going to be an investigation regardless. The problem is that it needs to be independent, not just by Bush and his cronies. With that happening, the mayor will end up being the scapegoat.

[PornoDoggy]

I think you are very, very wrong about the investigation into 9/11. I don't think it is fair to say that we knew what went wrong at all. Merely knowing that we fucked up is not enough. This is the reason that an aircraft accident investigation takes so fucking long - because they literally attempt to rebuild the plane to see what went wrong, rather than concluding that the deaths were casued by "unscheduled high velocity contact with the ground."

The reason that I suggest an independent commission is to depoliticize it. That's the only way that you can hope to stop (or minimize) the whitewashing of facts or the political finger-pointing. Investigating the response to Katrina won't solve the problems of those who were devastated by the storm - it MIGHT miniminze the problems for the next people caught in a similiar situation.

[JR]

Al Sharpton is on CNN every other day... thats good enough for me!

[XxXotic]

I think you are very, very wrong about the investigation into 9/11. I don't think it is fair to say that we knew what went wrong at all. Merely knowing that we fucked up is not enough. This is the reason that an aircraft accident investigation takes so fucking long - because they literally attempt to rebuild the plane to see what went wrong, rather than concluding that the deaths were casued by "unscheduled high velocity contact with the ground."

The reason that I suggest an independent commission is to depoliticize it. That's the only way that you can hope to stop (or minimize) the whitewashing of facts or the political finger-pointing. Investigating the response to Katrina won't solve the problems of those who were devastated by the storm - it MIGHT miniminze the problems for the next people caught in a similiar situation.What exactly did we discover about 9/11 from that commission that we couldn't have figured out on our own? Seriously, there wasn't much to investigate in that other then us ignoring threats and our vulnerability to attack, yet congress felt it necessary to grandstand and make believe something was being accomplished.

The 9/11 comission was all about placating "the people" and making us believe they were doing all they could. Purposely slamming a Boeing into a skyscraper and having an "unscheduled high velocity contact with the ground" are 2 completely different things. There were no malfunctions to speak of in 9/11 therefore no need to rebuild the plane to see what went wrong. I think the fact that 2 planes hit 2 towers explains pretty clearly what went wrong. We didn't need a commission to tell us we're too arrogant to think we're vulnerable. I think it is fair to say that. We got too comfortable, planes got hijacked, people died. Pretty much sums it up right there, no commission required. When you think you're untouchable, you're more prone to being touched. And we got touched, scratch that... we got bitchslapped.

Hindsight is 20/20, there's no need to investigate what went wrong, we already know that. The levee's were subpar (which we've known for 10 years now), reaction time was subpar, response was minimal, president was too worried about vacationing and there is most definitely still a "class" issue in this country. We also fell victim to the whole cry wolf mentality and didn't take the threat seriously since the last 15 "threats" turned out to be nothing. The only purpose an investigation serves is to say "hey look at me, i'm doing something now vote for me next term." I dont need a commission to tell me we fucked up, I need people to make sure we don't fuck up again. It's ironic to me that people think by investigating something, it'll better prepare us in the future. It won't. Threats loomed, we ignored them and tragedy happened. Why waste the time investigating what we already know when we can devote that time and those resources to better preparing for the next catastrophic event that may take place.

Im speaking mainly about a bipartisan investigation, not an independant one. Though both, in my opinion are still pointless.