Actual business thread...

[aeon]

Branding and crossover marketing (into mainstream mediums) are things I've been obsessing about lately...those whacky Armenians at cyberage.com have had a commercial in the works for a while and are finally gonna run it nationally on cable channels.

What do you all think about crossover marketing/branding? Have you even thought about doing it? I have some domains/sites in the works that I'm hoping to push through more mainstream mediums so this is my pet fetish lately. Whenever I see an ad about a net-based product/service in mainstream media I get all eyebally and shit. I think as the net/TV/cable integrate more and more...branding will become incredibly important - but I could be fuck all wrong.

Here's the commercial btw:
http://www.cyberage.com/tv

[cj]

careful kiddo, you might actually have to agree with me on something. :awinky:

you'll hate this too ... the biggest crossover market is women ;-)

>>I think as the net/TV/cable integrate more and more...branding will become incredibly important - but I could be fuck all wrong.

perfect example of this is the current music industry ... net, tv, cable and cell phones all working together to pump out crap that teenagers spend a fortune on. MTV is a great example ... with the introduction of cable tv, then cell phone multimedia recently, MTV has become a huge power controlling a lot of media assets - meaning anytime new technology comes along, they own assets and a brand to guarantee instant success in a new medium.

mainstream is almost impossible to crack without a brand ... the suits actually care about media kits and pretty graphics ... even if the audience doesn't, you can't get to them without impressing the suits.

[gonzo]

Ted Turner will be happy to run this infomercial on WTBS.

[aeon]

Ted Turner will be happy to run this infomercial on WTBS.
WTF you obese fucking dork? These are my friends and I've had a serious hardon for branding lately because of some domains and projects I have.

You people try and hold yourselves up as guru's...actual business people who don't follow the "zoo" bullshit - I wanted to hear some opinions about actual business...you obviously don't have any.

Not one of you asswipes can compare to the money these fuckers have - they're gambling and I'm interested in seeing the outcome of that gamble because it can impact long term business stategies.

[Hell Puppy]

TV can work if you really pound it into the ground. It also helps to have an offline product that can be ordered by phone so you dont leave the revenue from people who are "offline" on the table.

Best example of TV branding for adult stuff that I can remember is Girls Gone Wild. He built a hell of a brand off that thing. But you couldn't hardly turn on the TV late at night without hearing that goofy caribbean music theme and see hotties dropping their bikini tops.

But remember he was also pushing DVD's and video tapes at the same time, the traffic to the website was purely incidental in his business plan.

[aeon]

TV can work if you really pound it into the ground. It also helps to have an offline product that can be ordered by phone so you dont leave the revenue from people who are "offline" on the table.

Best example of TV branding for adult stuff that I can remember is Girls Gone Wild. He built a hell of a brand off that thing. But you couldn't hardly turn on the TV late at night without hearing that goofy caribbean music theme and see hotties dropping their bikini tops.

But remember he was also pushing DVD's and video tapes at the same time, the traffic to the website was purely incidental in his business plan.
Those are good points and Joe Francis is a marketing genius but I also look at any place I can find advertising and I see some smaller net based companies continually advertising.

Either they’re just throwing venture capital (or their own) away or they’re seeing a return because they keep advertising month after month. That makes me take a look - a very serious look.

edit:
It could be that I'm just obsessed...for fuck's sake I have a notebook here with companies I've seen - where they advertise, the products - the minium advertising based on the medium/contract and how long they've advertised - if they're still going beyond the mininum, how long they went beyond the minimum etc.,

[Dravyk]

I don't think one can brand without having "mega-money". That means TV commercials and event sponsorships. Look at the stupid names, Google, Yahoo, E-Harmony - who would buy e-harmony as a date site name? No one! - Monster - who would buy that domain as a job site? Again, no one.

Tons of money can make the stupidest sounding anything brandable. So my question is, aeon, do you think it's possible to do branding without $50 million in the startup coffers? And if so, how?

[gonzo]

WTF you obese fucking dork? These are my friends and I've had a serious hardon for branding lately because of some domains and projects I have.

You people try and hold yourselves up as guru's...actual business people who don't follow the "zoo" bullshit - I wanted to hear some opinions about actual business...you obviously don't have any.

Not one of you asswipes can compare to the money these fuckers have - they're gambling and I'm interested in seeing the outcome of that gamble because it can impact long term business stategies.

Testy aint we?

I did give you some good business advice. Read Hell Puppys post about Girls Gone Wild. That started out on WTBS as an informercial. Matter of fact if memory serves me correct that was one of Teds rev sharing commercials. He ran your ad.... took the orders with his processing as well as a percentage for advertising and processing. You wont find this info on the Zoo.

Besides I know you like all that teen explotation.

[Anthony]

WTF you obese fucking dork? These are my friends and I've had a serious hardon for branding lately because of some domains and projects I have.

You people try and hold yourselves up as guru's...actual business people who don't follow the "zoo" bullshit - I wanted to hear some opinions about actual business...you obviously don't have any.

Not one of you asswipes can compare to the money these fuckers have - they're gambling and I'm interested in seeing the outcome of that gamble because it can impact long term business stategies.

Cyberage is huge fucking money. Just some of their real world business are pretty nice.

Alot of ppl poo poo ideas they dont' understand. Me, I'd like to hear more of what you are doing.

[TheEnforcer]

The crossover aspect is interesting to be sure. Like Dravyk said though it might be harder without a hard product to be had. The credit card is certainly interesting. Not sure how many would take advnatage of that though. Still, worth the effort to see if it can succeed.

[Nickatilynx]

aeon,

I think most people here are looking hard at nonadult projects.

back in 96 hardly any TV ads mentioned a website.Now they all do.

One here says this ad is "censored" come and see it at www...etc (http://www...etc) etc.

But branding is to me only a part.

Infact I am "nickatilynx" because ilynx was my first site , and rather than buy a sensible domain I thought I could brand "ilynx".

Anyway..

A couple of years ago Ant and myself were exploring infomercials to attract viewers to websites.

The late night 15sec slots are so cheap that if my mind is right it was basically one join per 2 ads and you were into gross porfit.

The thing that currently is giving me the horn is gambling.

I love this scenario.

Place bet on horse race/dog race/sporting event.

Receive reminder on cell phone and option to stream race or event onto your cell phone .

Frankly adult bores me to tears these days.

[Bhelliom]

back in 96 hardly any TV ads mentioned a website.Now they all do.

One here says this ad is "censored" come and see it at www...etc (http://www...etc/) etc.



I've been of the opinion that this is a brilliant marketing strategy.

It manages to get the message out to the masses in a relatively cheap medium. The effect of that message can be immediately tracked by the number of visitors to the website. From a marketing analysis perspective you can't get much better information. This can all be then analysed and adjustments can be made quickly and effectively.

In the past, while people were watching your commercials, it was sometimes a little harder to find out the effect any particular part of the advertising campaign was having. And by extension, what to change.

This sort of advertising can show the companies exactly what they're doing right and wrong, and help to justify the expense.

Instead of throwing say 5000 in advertising and hoping for the best, companies and now much more easily throw that money in and say... ok was it worth it?.

wow... I get to contribute to an actual business thread.

[Mike AI]

It will be interesting to see which TV stations run these commercials. I am sure the same people who run the Girls gone Wild videos would so it. Which is E! and Comedy Central. There could be some local channels you could run it on at off hours.

The problem is, there are a lot of do gooders who would create boycotts, start phone banks and other techiniques to force channels not to accept "porn" commercials.

I think the commercial was fine for prime time TV but I am hardly the normal consumer.

Another thing to think about is buying spots of TV. From what I understand when Girls Gone Wild first ran commercials they had to guaruntee so many spots and prepay. ( I think ti was up to $1 million in cash). So it takes some bank to get this going.

I remember Paolo from tripleX was trying to do something similiar for his campusfuckparty website ( or whatever the site was). I saw the commercials, they were very close to the GGW ones, and I think they would have sold well.

Not sure whatever happened with it. He might be a person to talk with.

[Nickatilynx]

It will be interesting to see which TV stations run these commercials. I am sure the same people who run the Girls gone Wild videos would so it. Which is E! and Comedy Central. There could be some local channels you could run it on at off hours.

The problem is, there are a lot of do gooders who would create boycotts, start phone banks and other techiniques to force channels not to accept "porn" commercials.

I think the commercial was fine for prime time TV but I am hardly the normal consumer.

Another thing to think about is buying spots of TV. From what I understand when Girls Gone Wild first ran commercials they had to guaruntee so many spots and prepay. ( I think ti was up to $1 million in cash). So it takes some bank to get this going.

I remember Paolo from tripleX was trying to do something similiar for his campusfuckparty website ( or whatever the site was). I saw the commercials, they were very close to the GGW ones, and I think they would have sold well.

Not sure whatever happened with it. He might be a person to talk with.

Not here in Canada funnily enough.

20k and you were in.

The BITCH was getting a script etc etc etc to comply with there guidelines

Shit somewhere in storage I have all the researtdch on it.

my plan was pretty much a rehash of the old Pamela Anderson fan site of a few years ago.

Build a really tame Pamela Anderson site , lots og G pics etc etc , nice bio , some gushing shit about how hot she was. Get it listed everywhere cause it was nonadult........and then slip in ,hidden away a link to the video.

Worked like gangbusters.

:)

[gonzo]

Not here in Canada funnily enough.

20k and you were in.

The BITCH was getting a script etc etc etc to comply with there guidelines

Shit somewhere in storage I have all the researtdch on it.

my plan was pretty much a rehash of the old Pamela Anderson fan site of a few years ago.

Build a really tame Pamela Anderson site , lots og G pics etc etc , nice bio , some gushing shit about how hot she was. Get it listed everywhere cause it was nonadult........and then slip in ,hidden away a link to the video.

Worked like gangbusters.

:)

Nice job!
Pam Anderson was on with Larry King I think last night. She was saying how she didnt make one penny off of that video.

I know several people that made a killing off of it...thru Maxcash.
One local here was selling the fucker on VHS. He tells me it was public domain. I told him he is one lucky motherfucker.

[Nickatilynx]

Nice job!
Pam Anderson was on with Larry King I think last night. She was saying how she didnt make one penny off of that video.

I know several people that made a killing off of it...thru Maxcash.
One local here was selling the fucker on VHS. He tells me it was public domain. I told him he is one lucky motherfucker.

There is no new trick under the sun LOL

Just different angles ;-)))

How many times have you heard me say:
"Yeah , we were doing that in 99"
"Yeah Anthony and I came up with a similar idea in ..."

;-)))

[aeon]

So my question is, aeon, do you think it's possible to do branding without $50 million in the startup coffers? And if so, how?
I think there are a lot of ways...but I'm not gonna really go into my ideas for on the cheap branding because they could easily get used before I can and kill my little plans but if that much was needed just for start up coffers - most net based companies today wouldn't be here.
Me, I'd like to hear more of what you are doing.
I'm not gonna tip my hand about the specifics of things I'm working on but I'd have no problem and would probably enjoy kicking around ideas in a general fasion with you.
I think most people here are looking hard at nonadult projects.

My main interest is non-adult as well with this

The thing that currently is giving me the horn is gambling.

I love this scenario.

Place bet on horse race/dog race/sporting event.

Receive reminder on cell phone and option to stream race or event onto your cell phone .

Frankly adult bores me to tears these days.
SMS is gonna rock in the near future.
It will be interesting to see which TV stations run these commercials. I am sure the same people who run the Girls gone Wild videos would so it. Which is E! and Comedy Central. There could be some local channels you could run it on at off hours.

The problem is, there are a lot of do gooders who would create boycotts, start phone banks and other techiniques to force channels not to accept "porn" commercials.

I think the commercial was fine for prime time TV but I am hardly the normal consumer.

Another thing to think about is buying spots of TV. From what I understand when Girls Gone Wild first ran commercials they had to guaruntee so many spots and prepay. ( I think ti was up to $1 million in cash). So it takes some bank to get this going.

I remember Paolo from tripleX was trying to do something similiar for his campusfuckparty website ( or whatever the site was). I saw the commercials, they were very close to the GGW ones, and I think they would have sold well.

Not sure whatever happened with it. He might be a person to talk with.
per el davidarino:
"You'll see it on MTV, MTV2, USA, Comedy Central, E, and much more."

I'm mainly interested in doing this with non-adult shit...tho it may be edgy per se, it won't be porn so do gooders aren't really relevant.

Finally some cool info being tossed around here tho.

[Anthony]

Being US based, Gambling is a no no for me and something I can't market, but that scenario you just posted Nick is pretty precise.

The better plan of trying to do ityourself is get the ppl who already have the foundation and can provide the service. SMS is going to be huge, without a doubt. I sat through a presentation of SMS and what it's done over in Europe, and it just blows my mind.

[Anthony]

While we are at it, we have commercials running on MTV, MTV2, BET, and a few other channels for CrazyClubChicks.com

Just waiting to see how the data looks on it.

[TheEnforcer]

While we are at it, we have commercials running on MTV, MTV2, BET, and a few other channels for CrazyClubChicks.com

Just waiting to see how the data looks on it.


Very cool.. should be interesting to see for sure.

[Weg Cory]

In Los Angeles, a new variety rock radio station offering listeners everything from Classic Rock to 90’s Rock does not reveal on-air the lineup. Instead, they request you log on to their website and follow the streaming playlist.

Interesting?

The radio station is the main hub of the business platform, or so we would logically assume. But their vigilant push towards their e-based presence is very telling in another way.

Dave has the capital whereas most people do not. Capital is king in business. Starbucks is known for opening up operations near Coffee Beans and losing money with the intention of shutting down the competition. They knock the brands off the streets. They can afford to lose revenue on certain operations. Coffee Bean really can’t (or so I will assume for the sake of this thread). People cry about this on the news every night. The despair of one mom and pop pharmacy shutting down in Kansas for a Wal-Mart which hires 10 times more employees and offers benefits is viewed by the public as the gateway to hell.

It is a simple concept and one that I hope finally takes the inevitable “economist” shape. I open a car wash across the street from a resident car wash. I lower the price and offer a free oil change with every car wash. I break even and still eat every night. The car wash across the street shuts down. I buy the lot; open a laundry mat, etc…One or two others can move into the market and compete, but thousands simply can’t.

The Internet has a flaw in business philosophy and that flaw is continuously exposed and utilized in very self-defeating ways. Nick can have as much money as he likes, he can never prevent me from pillaging one sale a day from him. He can hardly prevent me from undercutting him via unsavory business practices. I have the ability to aspire to make one sale per day. What other medium allows this?

What Dave is doing is removing himself in an isolated fashion from this current, unorthodox business ideology and placing himself in more conventional territory. He is putting himself in the eyes of consumers that can’t completely be accessed by some guy harboring a few domains. TGP’s will not be purchasing this ad space.

Consumers hit Cyberage and Dave presents them with the Adult Internet. They see some trailers and free pictures and then they pay for a member area. That is how the Internet works right? You pay for a product? : )

Otherwise, the consumer hits the Internet, does a search, hits a site filled with $2000 content blowout and may or may not purchase. They could have hit a site with exclusive content not harvesting their emails. Business philosophy flawed.

Dave is just leveling the playing field. It will level itself independently some day. But as with everything, there are no guarantees.

If I want you to listen to my streaming radio station on a daily basis, I need to get you there first. Otherwise, the saturation of an open market will bury me.

[Peaches]

Just one of the reasons why I love Cory ;)

[Anthony]

I guess the point that Nick made was we looked at this earlier, about 3 years ago, and the market was just not there.

The US were too strigent, and the Canadian market too small.

It may have changed over the years.

[Nickatilynx]

I guess the point that Nick made was we looked at this earlier, about 3 years ago, and the market was just not there.

The US were too strigent, and the Canadian market too small.

It may have changed over the years.

It may well have.

[DollarManSteve]

Ok, so here's my disjointed, fractured message regarding.. well, im not sure yet, I'll tell you when im done writing.

I think the future of branding is completely different than how it exists in its current state. Like many instituitions of our 'old' economy (I dont like using the words 'old' and 'new' simply because of the connection to internet bubbledom, but.. I did), the notion of branding is a centralized, top-down mechanism where by a business entity creates a state of suspended disbelief in the conusmer through marketing and advertising. Through a complex interwoven matrix of mediums, an abstract thing called a 'brand' is created in the collective consciousness of the society. This is how branding works today, and there are different mediums (TV, internet, etc..) seperated by a psychological barrier; I say Psychological barrier because, in reality, there is no distinct difference, in my opinion, between a message being sent on TV or on the internet, or radio or what have you - its just data. We are now in a transitional time where we deploy the ideas of the 'old economy' using the technology that will fundamentally alter these Paradigms.. there now exists a lag between what the technology is capable of and the way we use it. We're like the mule with the spinning wheel....

Next post - the future!!

edit for grammar and spelling :P

[Newton]

TV does get a lot of exposure, but funnily enough the tube stations in London get a hell of a lot too as do other cities, with their billboards and advertising inside and outside the trains. Millions use these each day as do the airports where people are just milling around not wishing to make eye contact with others. Commuters/tourists are tightly packed liked sardines reading the adverts, waiting for their stop and a captive audience .. typically they wait for anything up to 8 minutes on a platform here in London for a tube train and everyone has a phone. The typical journey is at least 5-10 minutes in a confined space. I am currently looking at bluetooth technology to transmit information from these billboards/posters straight to a users phone when they pass by them with all the relevant details for website, email addresses etc, so there is no work for them to do. Even the possibility of transferring the animated flash/video advert so they have a copy of it on their phone as a freebie :)

[JoesHO]

I think you are on to something AEON, and my two cents is commercials are a splendid idea , also one should look at the alternative newspapers in different towns ( try college towns or big city's first) the ads are relativly inexpensive, they dont mid adult in most cases, and reach a huge readership base in many towns. I sold my 420 calendar out of these newspapers and that was where I got most of my sales from.

[DollarManSteve]

And now... the future.

Im not sure how many of you are familiar with the concept of prosumerism - where the consumer is the producer - it is this idea is what will change the economy and especially the production/consumtion of media in the future. I will attempt to apply this idea to the concept of branding and show how stupid it is for a guy like Rupert Murdoch to buy MySpace.

Working everyday within the cozy, virtual confines of the internet give me (and Im sure all of you) a sense of having an 'insiders' view of whats really happening on the Internet. Am I the only one who can see that this 'internet' is what the entire future of our global economy will be built on? And its not even the physical wires and servers that matter (you think China will lay a bazillion miles of optical cable? yes.. they will.. but not to the end user). It is the wireless pervasiveness of the internet - everywhere, all the time, completely surrounding us - no 'offline' no 'online' - all these are old ideas that wont apply. The Internet will be an all penetrating aura and we will interact with it, use devices to peer inside of it, create with it, upload into it and download from it.

This is where the traditional notions of branding go out the window. Companies will not be able to plan and deploy a 'brand' - brands will create themselves and exist seperate from ownership - the empowered prosumer will be the brand, everyone has the opportunity to be their own brand. for example - the term 'blog' is to me a brand. When I hear 'blog' it conjures up a whole set of ideas in my mind. And yet, no company owns the concept of 'blog' - it just is. And it is because it has been created from the bottom up, a completely organic almost living thing that transcends a corporate marketing think tank.

Given the fickleness of the internet and the velocity of information in todays world, a company like Fox buying myspace - looking to capitalize on blogs - has no idea what they are getting themselves into. You cant 'own' the internet, because it costs virtually nothing to create something on the internet - and things on the internet recreate themselves of their own momentum, that is not something you can buy. Google is a wonderful example of this, and (along with yahoo) I think will be the first companies to live an e-lifecycle. Google appeared virtually out of nowhere 7 years ago - and given their current position - are a testament to the power of the internet. I think, however, that they will be a victim of their own success and unless they grab onto the new paradigms that will drive the economy 10, 20 years from now, they will be irrelevant.

With regards to the fox/mypace thing, I was dicussing it with one of my coworkers and he said "Do you know how much traffic you could buy for $500 million!!", an obviously hyperbolic comment, but poignant. Companies operate on old ideas - to control from the top down, thats what they know how to do. Yet, in the future, the power - and the money - will be the ability to participate in as many peer-to-peer interactions as possible, while being able to instantly deploy your participation to anywhere on the net.

Ok Im done. Cliff notes anyone?

[Dravyk]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dravyk
So my question is, aeon, do you think it's possible to do branding without $50 million in the startup coffers? And if so, how?

I think there are a lot of ways...but I'm not gonna really go into my ideas for on the cheap branding because they could easily get used before I can and kill my little plans but if that much was needed just for start up coffers - most net based companies today wouldn't be here. Just wanted to clarify ... Eh, I was wondering where I got that large figure from. For one, it was early in the morning and no sleep.

I mentioned E-harmony, and that what was on my mind. That site is on, it seems, every channel and all times of day including peak times. And I was thinking of a sustained campaign as they have been doing for years also.

Obviously late night or Canadian television (which again didn't even come to mind when I posted in the wee hours) would be a whole lot cheaper.

[The Other Steve]

Someone mentioned SMS marketing earlier but that is already becoming old technology. Check out the advertising section of yesterday's Wall Street Journal Online for a different form of mobile phone marketing that's getting a take up of anything up to 15% from it's target audience.

And it really is targeted marketing - unfortuantely there is only one company in America who is testing the technology right now on a very limited scale but it's becoming very popular in the UK and Europe.

And aeon those notebooks aren't obsession - that's research.

[gonzo]

Someone mentioned SMS marketing earlier but that is already becoming old technology. Check out the advertising section of yesterday's Wall Street Journal Online for a different form of mobile phone marketing that's getting a take up of anything up to 15% from it's target audience.

And it really is targeted marketing - unfortuantely there is only one company in America who is testing the technology right now on a very limited scale but it's becoming very popular in the UK and Europe.

And aeon those notebooks aren't obsession - that's research.

SMS may be already dead for advertising before it got out of the gate very well in the US. Sure is popular like the PTT/Nextel phones right now for communicating though.

[The Other Steve]

SMS may be already dead for advertising before it got out of the gate very well in the US. Sure is popular like the PTT/Nextel phones right now for communicating though.

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/0,,SB112466110885019036-Xchttw90KZ_Tq__9XnKLRbAJBfI_20060821,00.html?mod=r ss_free

That's the link to the Wall Street Journal article

[gonzo]

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/0,,SB112466110885019036-Xchttw90KZ_Tq__9XnKLRbAJBfI_20060821,00.html?mod=r ss_free

That's the link to the Wall Street Journal article

Thank you Steve. I actually have a use for this information.
BTW glad to have you back. Spaz tells me good things about yall.

[Dravyk]

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/0,,SB112466110885019036-Xchttw90KZ_Tq__9XnKLRbAJBfI_20060821,00.html?mod=r ss_free

That's the link to the Wall Street Journal articleVery very interesting!

I can see however how this could be majorly annoying. I know if I were in an airport and my cellphone rang for a commercial, or, let's say I'm talking to someone on the cell, and it says, another incoming call ...

That said, still quite interesting.

[Newton]

Gonzo, sms is not dead and won't be for many years ..most adult companies can't get their heads behind the concept and how many have actually launched .. i can name two maybe three, that are any good or have infrastructure in place ..

[Dravyk]

Gonzo, sms is not dead and won't be for many years ..most adult companies can't get their heads behind the concept and how many have actually launched .. i can name two maybe three, that are any good or have infrastructure in place ..
Just looked on the web for some recent SMS in the US usage figures.

From April 2005, found a thread on a message board. Guy asks if SMS is popular in "your country". People around the world wondered if this guy was serious and started spouting figures about how widespread it is, in Ireland, India, Japan, you name it.

They they start to all say "what is with you yanks that you haven't adopted it".

Guy replies about two articles. One was Canada, 6.3 out of 10 do not use text messaging. In some provinces, like Vancouver it's 7.1 out of 10 with cellphones do not use it.

He then quotes another survey saying in the US, 9 out of 10 do not use it.

Will it ever catch on here? Don't know. It seriously seems stupid to us to start typing with our thumbs crap like "Dude, sup?" "Nutin" "Ok, l8r". But obviously the rest of the world seems enthralled with it.

Hmm. Does that include Australia, I wonder?

[Newton]

Just looked on the web for some recent SMS in the US usage figures.

From April 2005, found a thread on a message board. Guy asks if SMS is popular in "your country". People around the world wondered if this guy was serious and started spouting figures about how widespread it is, in Ireland, India, Japan, you name it.

They they start to all say "what is with you yanks that you haven't adopted it".

Guy replies about two articles. One was Canada, 6.3 out of 10 do not use text messaging. In some provinces, like Vancouver it's 7.1 out of 10 with cellphones do not use it.

He then quotes another survey saying in the US, 9 out of 10 do not use it.

Will it ever catch on here? Don't know. It seriously seems stupid to us to start typing with our thumbs crap like "Dude, sup?" "Nutin" "Ok, l8r". But obviously the rest of the world seems enthralled with it.

Hmm. Does that include Australia, I wonder?

http://digital-lifestyles.info/display_page.asp?section=cm&id=2398

http://www.text.it/mediacentre/default.asp?intPageID=132

[gonzo]

Just looked on the web for some recent SMS in the US usage figures.

From April 2005, found a thread on a message board. Guy asks if SMS is popular in "your country". People around the world wondered if this guy was serious and started spouting figures about how widespread it is, in Ireland, India, Japan, you name it.

They they start to all say "what is with you yanks that you haven't adopted it".

Guy replies about two articles. One was Canada, 6.3 out of 10 do not use text messaging. In some provinces, like Vancouver it's 7.1 out of 10 with cellphones do not use it.

He then quotes another survey saying in the US, 9 out of 10 do not use it.

Will it ever catch on here? Don't know. It seriously seems stupid to us to start typing with our thumbs crap like "Dude, sup?" "Nutin" "Ok, l8r". But obviously the rest of the world seems enthralled with it.

Hmm. Does that include Australia, I wonder?

That being said Drav. The FFN network uses the shit out of SMS. But we thumb important issues....

"Breakfast?"
"Where are we eatin?"
"Whats for dinner?"

[The Other Steve]

SMS is quite big here in Australia - even in a town as small as this one 50k people you will often see people in the street, in cafes and even on the beach sending text messages.

And it's not just limited to young people - you will see quite a few older people sending messages too.

Businesses use it as well - my daughter is in IT and the company she worked for used it to send alerts if something went wrong when the IT staff was off duty. She even used it to start the daily back up process when she was holidaying with us.

The data centre was two states away and although the backup was supposed to start automatically it often didn't. She would get an SMS alert - respond to it by dialing another number and waiting till she got an automated response and then hang up and the back up would begin.

[aeon]

I think you are on to something AEON,
Why in the fuck do you type my nick out in caps?

[aeon]

SMS is quite big here in Australia
These dorks obviously haven't seen a fresh piece of pussy in years. Chicks are obsessed with text messaging and I hate it for that reason alone. Whoever the absolute fucking idiot it was that decided to give women the ability to write fuckin novella's with a phone should be shot.

It’s a great idea for marketing tho...we just need to prohibit women from being able to use it.

[Peaches]

Whoever the absolute fucking idiot it was that decided to give women the ability to write fuckin novella's with a phone should be shot.
I resemble that remark :whistling

[Dravyk]

Ok, serious question for "the rest of the world" outside of North America ...

SMS -- Why?

In the US we just phone the other person on our cells and talk. Sometimes we use the walkie-talkie feature.

Why text when you can talk?

Is it possible -- and I do not know, that's why I am asking -- that the US phone prices are cheaper than elsewhere?

Just as Other Steve said people texting everywhere. You walk down the street here and everyone is walking down the pavement with a cell to their ear. Get on a bus and there's usually three people on it talking. Hell, if I have to wait at the pharmacy 15 minutes for a prescription pickup I usually end up having a chat.

[JR]

Ok, serious question for "the rest of the world" outside of North America ...

SMS -- Why?

In the US we just phone the other person on our cells and talk. Sometimes we use the walkie-talkie feature.

Why text when you can talk?

Is it possible -- and I do not know, that's why I am asking -- that the US phone prices are cheaper than elsewhere?

Just as Other Steve said people texting everywhere. You walk down the street here and everyone is walking down the pavement with a cell to their ear. Get on a bus and there's usually three people on it talking. Hell, if I have to wait at the pharmacy 15 minutes for a prescription pickup I usually end up having a chat.

there is no "walkie talkie" feature in the rest of the world. Most countries have one primary standard... GSM. in the US, you have 10 big companies with their own standards trying to dominate the market with thier own standard, which is probably a primary reason that it takes a long time for a particular technology to catch on.

The US has ALWAYS been far behind the curve in this area in both trends and technology. This has been true since mobile phones were invented... the US has lagged behind. Ring tone sites were making millions in Europe in the mid-late 90's before people in the US even heard of a ring tone. Today, you can turn on MTV in almost any european country and there are more commercials for shit like Ring tones, sms chat lines/dating and other crap than real products. In some countries, MTV or any music channel plays a video and at the bottom of the screen, there is a number to call to get the ringtone, sms to vote on the song etc etc.

SMS is cheaper usually to send a quick message and Europe does not typically have cell plans like the US where you can get a gazillion minutes for almost nothing. and SMS message usually costs a fixed amount like .05/message, whereas a quick phone call in Russia for example to say the same thing would cost a 1.00 or more - it is important to people who make very little money. if you are the typical chatty teen, that is a lot of money every month.

[JR]

also, in my case, i send SMS messages to europe all the time. sweden, spain, russia, ukraine and so on. it costs almost nothing for instant, mobile communication where i can also get an instant reply. its basically like a simplified mobile e-mail. thats why i have phones like the Treo 650 and Nokia 7280 with keyboards. its quick and cheap.

[aeon]

In Los Angeles, a new variety rock radio station offering listeners everything from Classic Rock to 90’s Rock does not reveal on-air the lineup. Instead, they request you log on to their website and follow the streaming playlist.

Interesting?

The radio station is the main hub of the business platform, or so we would logically assume. But their vigilant push towards their e-based presence is very telling in another way.

Dave has the capital whereas most people do not. Capital is king in business. Starbucks is known for opening up operations near Coffee Beans and losing money with the intention of shutting down the competition. They knock the brands off the streets. They can afford to lose revenue on certain operations. Coffee Bean really can’t (or so I will assume for the sake of this thread). People cry about this on the news every night. The despair of one mom and pop pharmacy shutting down in Kansas for a Wal-Mart which hires 10 times more employees and offers benefits is viewed by the public as the gateway to hell.

It is a simple concept and one that I hope finally takes the inevitable “economist” shape. I open a car wash across the street from a resident car wash. I lower the price and offer a free oil change with every car wash. I break even and still eat every night. The car wash across the street shuts down. I buy the lot; open a laundry mat, etc…One or two others can move into the market and compete, but thousands simply can’t.

The Internet has a flaw in business philosophy and that flaw is continuously exposed and utilized in very self-defeating ways. Nick can have as much money as he likes, he can never prevent me from pillaging one sale a day from him. He can hardly prevent me from undercutting him via unsavory business practices. I have the ability to aspire to make one sale per day. What other medium allows this?

What Dave is doing is removing himself in an isolated fashion from this current, unorthodox business ideology and placing himself in more conventional territory. He is putting himself in the eyes of consumers that can’t completely be accessed by some guy harboring a few domains. TGP’s will not be purchasing this ad space.

Consumers hit Cyberage and Dave presents them with the Adult Internet. They see some trailers and free pictures and then they pay for a member area. That is how the Internet works right? You pay for a product? : )

Otherwise, the consumer hits the Internet, does a search, hits a site filled with $2000 content blowout and may or may not purchase. They could have hit a site with exclusive content not harvesting their emails. Business philosophy flawed.

Dave is just leveling the playing field. It will level itself independently some day. But as with everything, there are no guarantees.

If I want you to listen to my streaming radio station on a daily basis, I need to get you there first. Otherwise, the saturation of an open market will bury me.
You're a long winded fucker but mark my words...the day will come when I hire you. You're too intelligent for porn.

[Raven]

The generations coming up are evolving...their thumb structures are changing to accomodate the gaming controllers....this whole target market loves cell phones....and text messaging.....in Europe and Asia, it's all over the place and every age group uses their cells for everything.....

I personally hate it, especially those tiny little keyboards.... but, I see the money and I can't argue with that.

[Peaches]

It takes me 30 seconds to type out a text message for a conversation that would seriously be 5 minutes from start to finish.

[Dravyk]

It takes me 30 seconds to type out a text message for a conversation that would seriously be 5 minutes from start to finish.I haven't tried it, but I'd think for me it would be the exact opposite -- take five mintues to type out what I can say in 30 seconds.

JR, not to put all of your very good post into a few words -- appreciate everything you said -- but to hone in: the lack of walkie-talkie feature and the higher cost per minute. That's what I thought was probably the difference.

As for "there is a number to call to get the ringtone, sms to vote on the song etc etc" absolute fascinating! I appreciate that insight!

[Nickatilynx]

They should increase the popularity of text messaging by doing an advertisement campaign with everyone text messaging each other:

WASSUP?
WASSSSSSSUP!!!!!!
WASSUPPPP~!!!

etc.

A new take on a classic ad.

;-)

[Dravyk]

The T-Mobile sidekick ad with Snoop Dog, Paris Hilton, Wayne Newton and whatever was actually the best demonstration -- and most memorable -- of any text messaging ad I've seen.

[JR]

I haven't tried it, but I'd think for me it would be the exact opposite -- take five mintues to type out what I can say in 30 seconds.

JR, not to put all of your very good post into a few words -- appreciate everything you said -- but to hone in: the lack of walkie-talkie feature and the higher cost per minute. That's what I thought was probably the difference.

As for "there is a number to call to get the ringtone, sms to vote on the song etc etc" absolute fascinating! I appreciate that insight!

i think price and technology are factors. i think that the EU and Asia are also consistently ahead on the technology curve as well. phones have also been more effectively marketed as fashion accessories and personal fashion statements outside the US, while we are still excited that our phone actually has a camera. i noticed this in Korea in the mid-late 90's when everyone had little phones around their necks, countless colors and designs and all the cool accessories. if you want a mobile phone in the US, the options are really limited from any provider.

as far as technology... the 3G stuff for example, has been happening in EU and Asia for a few years now... like always, it will hit critical mass outside the US probably before it is being used in the US... and it will seem like something that came comepletely out of nowhere, when in reality, it has been on the market and gaining steam for years outside the US.

[Nickatilynx]

I wonder if I am an Average Joe.

We had the walkie talkies , were constantly bleeping each other , text messaging , etc etc.

In the end it was easier to call.

Had the siemens web phone thingy. Wasn't compatable with site i need to visit whilst mobile. ie banks.

gave it back in the end.

maybe its just me...

[JR]

I wonder if I am an Average Joe.

We had the walkie talkies , were constantly bleeping each other , text messaging , etc etc.

In the end it was easier to call.

Had the siemens web phone thingy. Wasn't compatable with site i need to visit whilst mobile. ie banks.

gave it back in the end.

maybe its just me...


for me - easier to send a quick message "is the server down" or "are you into anal sex" or whatever, from anywhere in the world and get an answer in a few seconds.

http://reviews.zdnet.co.uk/i/z/rv/2004/10/palm-treo-650-300x500.gif

[Dravyk]

Nick, I think you (and I) are "North American Joe Average".

JR, the gif of your cell is sweet!

I agree the rest of the world is so ahead of us here, as consumers, that it's plain scary.

Ditto RDIF and "contactless payments". CJ told me six months ago about paying her parking meter in Brisbane with her cell. Japan has been doing the vending machine payment through cell phones since, I dunno when.

I know when it does hit N.A. it is going to be a tsunami. The change will be very quick and it will be everywhere. It will be like Rip Van Winkle, especially for those of us over 24. We'll wake up and kids will be waving their credit cards and phones in the air and taking their MickyD meals away, and we'll be going "huh? what happened?"

... They'll be stopping at a vending machine, face it, do something with something in their hand and take out the can of soda and continue walking, and we'll be "did you see that? how did she get a soda without putting any money in the machine? did you see her put money in the machine"?

The major problem is as you said ten companies competing, no standards yet. I'm sure a lot of ushere in N.A. want badly to get into the crest of the wave and make money off of this. I sure would love to as well. The major problem is, we still don't know which wave. Which technology will be adopted, which of dozens of competing methodologies to back, how to do the integration. :(

Thing is, giant companies here with mega funding are having the same problem. It's not only which horse to back in the race, it's also which race are they running in and on what day at what track.

[Raven]

It takes me 30 seconds to type out a text message for a conversation that would seriously be 5 minutes from start to finish.

It takes me five minutes to type a thirty second response on a laptop keyboard.

Can you imagine what would happen with a cell phone? I'd be typing for hours.

[Nickatilynx]

today I was in a car park advertising "Don't get wet,pay us with yr cellphone"

It seems you text message when arrive and when you leave

[gonzo]

for me - easier to send a quick message "is the server down" or "are you into anal sex" or whatever, from anywhere in the world and get an answer in a few seconds.

http://reviews.zdnet.co.uk/i/z/rv/2004/10/palm-treo-650-300x500.gif


http://www.tmobile.com/promos/sidekickII.asp

[Nickatilynx]

today I was in a car park advertising "Don't get wet,pay us with yr cellphone"

It seems you text message when arrive and when you leave

or of course you can just not pay and risk the ticket.

So far I'm well ahead of the game ;-)))

[Anthony]

for me - easier to send a quick message "is the server down" or "are you into anal sex" or whatever, from anywhere in the world and get an answer in a few seconds.

http://reviews.zdnet.co.uk/i/z/rv/2004/10/palm-treo-650-300x500.gif

We use SMS alot in our group. Funny enough, we all have TREO 650's.

[Anthony]

http://www.tmobile.com/promos/sidekickII.asp

TREO' were in the top ten products for 2005. Sidekicks were nowhere on the list.

[Hell Puppy]

SMS used properly is a fast way to deliver a short message. If I just wanna tell someone breakfast is at 3AM at Steak 'n Shake, I can do it in 30 seconds or less. If I do the same thing voice it would be considered rude as fuck.

ring
ring
ring

"hello"

"breakfast at steak 'n shake at 3AM"

click

Doesn't work that way, you gotta have the obligatory chit chat.

People who insist upon voice calls suck the hours right out of the day. Most of the people who are "voice people" are also the ones who are a royal pain in the ass to get off the phone, and also prone to call you at the most inconvenient times.

SMS is much like ICQ or email, much less intrusive. You can read the message, prioritize and reply when appropriate.

[JR]

We use SMS alot in our group. Funny enough, we all have TREO 650's.

i love the treo. i had a 600 and bought a 650. i have an ipaq as well. er... had. i threw it out the window of my car when it froze up for the umpteenth time. in a word, they are worthless. its not a good phone, not a good pda - which defeats the purpose of either type of user buying it.

i think Hellpuppy completely... its less intrusive and quicker.

[The Other Steve]

I haven't tried it, but I'd think for me it would be the exact opposite -- take five mintues to type out what I can say in 30 seconds.

JR, not to put all of your very good post into a few words -- appreciate everything you said -- but to hone in: the lack of walkie-talkie feature and the higher cost per minute. That's what I thought was probably the difference.

As for "there is a number to call to get the ringtone, sms to vote on the song etc etc" absolute fascinating! I appreciate that insight!

There is another point to this too - they can be having 5 or 6 sms conversations all at the same time. It can't be done if they're using voice communications.

[The Other Steve]

Dravyk - there's a tollway down in Melbourne where you can pay your toll online or via your cellphone.

I'm sure it won't be long before your car can talk to you via SMS to remind you that it needs a service - or you'll be able to quiz your car via SMS to check on possible problems that that might arise in the days ahead.

The level of AI in cars today is amazing and it's only a matter of time before we will be communicating with them.

There is already a degree of that happening with modern railroad locos. The maintentance department can look into the computer files of a loco that's out on the road and have it tell them what things they need to look at at the next service.

[Dravyk]

There is another point to this too - they can be having 5 or 6 sms conversations all at the same time. It can't be done if they're using voice communications.Hand held ICQ, in other words. :)

Yeah, I agree with you about the car. So does MicroSoft unfortunately. So help me if Windows ever gets into autos like they want -- well the Blue Screen of Death could become all too real.

[slavdogg]

with the bluetooth ads, i cant imagine it working well
Do people actually keep their bluetooth ON most of the time ??
I've always found it draining my batteries like crazy on any phone i've had.

bluetooth sucks IMO

[Raven]

with the bluetooth ads, i cant imagine it working well
Do people actually keep their bluetooth ON most of the time ??
I've always found it draining my batteries like crazy on any phone i've had.

bluetooth sucks IMO

Bluetooth has been berry berry good to me for shows...when I don't hear my phone ring..and when I'm driving.

Other than that...I never use it.

But, I do like it, even though it sucks the life out of the phone battery...it's lightweight...and I can hear my phone ringing....

[gonzo]

TREO' were in the top ten products for 2005. Sidekicks were nowhere on the list.

Now aint that some shit? Me and Snoop like ours.

[Peaches]

I was talking to a guy last week who was in the process of moving all his info from his Treo to a Razr. He didn't like the size of the Treo. I think I would be the same, even though it had a much easier way to SMS. I don't need all the calendar stuff - I have a pug calendar for that :)

[EroticySteve]

Branding has a value. That's for sure. However, to rely on branding as the success metric of a business isn't what Wall St. or even net investors are looking for when they are hedging their bets on the success of an entity. Branding is an asset when you're already a market leader and seek to maintain a competitive lead in your industry. However, as marketer who's worked on an independent basis with some very large mainstream companies, offline corporations and online corporations I can say that branding was a side effect of good marketing for me, not the goal.

I have been involved in $50 million dollar upstart marketing and branding budgets. Oh how I miss the dot com frenzy at times.

[gonzo]

I have been involved in $50 million dollar upstart marketing and branding budgets. Oh how I miss the dot com frenzy at times.

Dont we all! SPend all the budget so you can get twice the next time!

[EroticySteve]

Ain't that the truth. I remember how I kept saying. "Look we need a revenue model, otherwise we'll be out of business in a year." Well, I was right. The goal back then was only to build free membership, Wall Street is looking for a marketable base of members.

Those guys were partially right. Mostly wrong though.

[CyberAge-Dave]

I am impressed. An actual Business thread.
Good job aeon.

Thanks guys for the props on the commercial.

Thanks aeon for pointing me in this direction.

-=Dave

[PornoDoggy]

My middle daughter has a phone with a mini-keyboard.

She told me the reason I don't text is simple - I'm old.

[Hell Puppy]

I leave bluetooth on all the time. And yes, it does munch on the battery pretty hard by doing so. But fuck it, i'll charge more often in exchange for the convenience of not having to go into settings and turn it on and off when I want to use it. Now I just need a new car with bluetooth built in....

[Hell Puppy]

Handhelds are almost a religious issue. People tend to defend their own favorite vigorously or diss the ones they're jealous of.

There are really only 3 worth considering at the moment IMO, and each has it's own strengths and weaknesses...

Blackberry -- If email is your thing, it's the best at handling it. Keyboard is very usable. However, it's weak on the IM and web surfing side. The 7100 is the size of a typical phone.

Treo -- If you're a PIM lover, this is the absolute best choice. Also good for the ability to add pocket apps to do just about anything. Decent web rendering and usability and good messaging if you can handle the tiny keyboard. Works great if you stick with WAP enabled sites. Single tasks though due to nature of Palm OS. Very pricey though still.

Sidekick II -- By far the best all around balance of messaging, email and surfing. The device was built specifically for wireless internet access, and the OS backgrounds very very well, far better than the other two. Renders pages well regardless of formatting and deals admirably with things like web forms. The first generation was not very durable, but they got it right with the second generation. Very cool form factor with the largest screen and keyboard of the bunch. However, it sucks as a PIM, and if you use a wireless for 90% or more email and rarely surf, the email features of the blackberry are superior. But if you want to surf and do all of the above, hard to beat.

Now the downside to all of the above is you greatly compromise the phone features. Of the 3, the blackberry has the best phone functionality. Sidekick II is usable as a phone, Treo tests most people's patience.

[Raven]

My middle daughter has a phone with a mini-keyboard.

She told me the reason I don't text is simple - I'm old.

I do enough text with messenging services. Not that I'm a great fan of humanity; but, you can hear inflection and tone when you actually speak to one of them.

[aeon]

Thanks aeon for pointing me in this direction.

-=Dave
Welcome to the clusterfuck that is oprano buddy.

Grab some metamucil, put on some depends, and enjoy the show.

[Hell Puppy]

Welcome to the clusterfuck that is oprano buddy.

Grab some metamucil, put on some depends, and enjoy the show.

Metamucil?

We dont need no stinking metamucil.

We have sushi and seafood buffets!

[gonzo]

Metamucil?

We dont need no stinking metamucil.

We have sushi and seafood buffets!

Rub it the fuck in. I been puking and shitting all day long.
FUCK SHELLFISH!

[DollarManSteve]

I dont think anyone read my posts. :(

[Hell Puppy]

Rub it the fuck in. I been puking and shitting all day long.
FUCK SHELLFISH!

Candy Ass

[Rolo]

I dont think anyone read my posts. :(

I did... I think you are right regarding the speed of things, and that the internet will continue to evolve with "lifelike" chaos as the fuel. No major corp (including google) will be able to "buy" or "control" the internet, which might explain the need to build or buy "brands", since it gives them a sense of control, however truth is that the internet evolution seldom leaves room for a positive ROI on these type of ventures.

One of my next projects (still on the drawing board) is to take a already established phenomena, and build an environment where it can excel from where it is today - not by providing or developing new costly technologies, but simply by connecting the dots. The revenue model is spread on several levels, where the main mechanism will be supply and demand - giving it a almost life of its own. This is not a "build it and they will come" situation, there are going to be invested alot of money into getting the eyeballs, but nowhere near $580 million (price for myspace).

Having a visionary business model on the internet usual means doing things 500+ days before everyone else, so that doesn´t leave alot of time to get your ROI, if your only way to make money is to be the only one in the market. Therefore you need an "arsenal" of flexible parameters, and not just a "brand" or a "first mover advantage", because things change/evolve faster than ever before.