Debate time

[Bhelliom]

OK here's the debate of the day (or however long it goes on for)

Marquis De Sade. Clinically insane psychopath? or brilliant forerunner to the sexual revolution of the 20th century?


I was having this discussion earlier and neither of us have come to a conclusion.

I believe that De sade was a brilliant man and has indeed been almost instrumental in the developing area of fetish. I mean really... Sadism comes from his name.

Granted he's did some truly evil things, But on the other hand he was incredibly intelligent and had some very (at the time) taboo ideas.

What do you all think? how much has he impacted modern society's view on sex and kink?

[Bhelliom]

PS .. any responses will be used in a presentation in a college sex class.. .so help is appreciated

Thanks

[JoesHO]

I think fetish and different things were around way before Sado.

I am conviunced that early man had sex with animals, and of course there was freaky gay love, and incest and many other taboo acts going on in the early days of Man.

So to say or imply that there was anything other than animalistic /human nature taking its course before reason and conscience came in to say some of these things should not be done is not correct inmho

[Bhelliom]

Just to clarify my position joesho. While I agree with you that kink was around long before De Sade, I believe, with the power of the catholic church at the time and for 1700 years previously, that he was the one who challenged the church and political powers of the time and openly declared things that had previously been held as secretive or taboo.

As a result his works became more popular and is partly what resulted in the explosion of sexual freedom in the 20th century

[Lady Marmelade]

Granted the man was brilliant, but then again french people usually are...
That doesn't change the fact that he was completely crazy (and not the good kind of crazy like: "oh babe don't buy me a diamond ring, that's crazy". He was the straight jacket and restraining order kind of crazy...).
He used to kidnap random girls and torture them, beat them and would have kept them unless the police came to their rescue. Ok, so the man wrote a few books that were of course very modern for their time and promotted a different ideal regarding sex...good for him.
I'm pretty sure if Paul Bernardo wrote the same books we'd be having a very different kind of conversation... the only difference between De Sade and Bernardo is the fact that the French police wasn't getting paid to sit on their asses and do nothing...and also the amount of horse tranquilizer used I guess.
Now don't get me wrong, there is absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying rough sex... but De Sade really only cared about himself and suffered from what the American Psychiatric Association refers to as sexual sadism... yes it is a mental disorder.

[Bhelliom]

You're right he was probably insane but then again that could be the story that was spread by a draconian monarchy to hide the fact that his writing was very politically challenging.. But Did he in fact do some good with his writing?

in other words... breaking with church doctrine and claiming that sex could be pleasurable.. and in fact should be fun?


He was freed from bastille by the french revolution... so at the time they thought he was just a political prisoner and not insane