Is it really illegal?

[Bhelliom]

Charges in gas theft


GRENOBLE, France (AP) - A court has convicted 17 people for stealing thousands of litres of gasoline from a faulty pump at a service station in southeastern France, officials said Thursday.

The 17 drivers had their driving licences suspended for a month, the office said. Two other people whose licences already were suspended were fined $300 US in Wednesday's ruling.

A total of 224 people pumped out at least 30,000 litres of gasoline between November 2002 and February 2003 after two drivers noticed free gasoline pouring out when they inserted their credit cards into the machine.

One man visited the faulty pump at the service station in Colombe 18 times in a week and another woman took about 960 litres of gasoline in 33 visits.

The 205 other gasoline cheats, all identified by their credit cards, were not tried because they visited the pump fewer than 10 times and paid back the money owed, the court said.




Really. Is it technically illegal if you made the effort to pay for the gas and just weren't charged for it? They were just taking advantage of a screwup with the gas station. I would think it was the gas stations own stupid fault for not noticing it and turning off the pump.


PS I've actually had work to do this week for a change so I haven't been around much to post, But I am working on Nicks story (and by working on I mean every once in a while thinking about it, so it could be a while) and will post the whole thing once its done.

[Steady]

The thing is they all knew they were not charged for the gas. They probably
knew the store was not aware of it, so their thought was....grab all the gusto
you can.

One guy went to the pump 18 times in one week...come on...
He wanted to take as much as he could before the business establishment found out about the screw up. He knew the pump was spiting out free gas.


I beleave the right thing to do was to inform the clerck that they were not being charged for the gas.

[sarettah]

Originally posted by Steady@Jul 22 2005, 12:00 PM
I beleave the right thing to do was to inform the clerck that they were not being charged for the gas.
Right and Legal are two totally different things.

If a company sends me merchandise I did not order, then (according to the courts) I have the legal right to keep the merchandise without paying for it.

Is that "right" ? If the company made an honest mistake, I would say, no it is not right, however, it is legal.

So, whether or not it is right or wrong, if a company delivers to me a "present" in the form of free gas, I believe in the U.S. it would be legal to take full advantage of it.

imho of course

[Bhelliom]

Sare

That's pretty much the line of thought I had when I read this.

Seems to me liability should fall solely on the company, and not the customers for taking advantage of a good situation

[Peaches]

Of course it's illegal. If something's not yours and you take it, it's stealing. Not really that hard to figure out.

[Nickatilynx]

If a company sends me merchandise I did not order, then (according to the courts) I have the legal right to keep the merchandise without paying for it.

Is that "right" ? If the company made an honest mistake, I would say, no it is not right, however, it is legal.

So, whether or not it is right or wrong, if a company delivers to me a "present" in the form of free gas, I believe in the U.S. it would be legal to take full advantage of it.

imho of course
I hope someone sends me a Bentley in error :)

[Dravyk]

Originally posted by Peaches@Jul 22 2005, 01:38 PM
Of course it's illegal. If something's not yours and you take it, it's stealing. Not really that hard to figure out.
Now, now, Peaches. You have to remember you're talking to adult webmasters here. Need I say more? :awinky:

[JR]

Originally posted by Bhelliom@Jul 22 2005, 10:20 AM
Sare

That's pretty much the line of thought I had when I read this.

Seems to me liability should fall solely on the company, and not the customers for taking advantage of a good situation
stealing is stealing. the gas is not the property of the purchaser until its paid for. everyone who drives a car knows this. further, i am sure the law addresses the issue of people knowingly taking advantage of the situation.

and sarettah, i think you are wrong. i noticed you used the word "present". where is it understood stated or implied that the gas is a gift? a failing piece of hardward does not imply "this gas is free, take all you want". what fact led people to reasonably assume the gas is free for their taking? what fact exists that can show the people had reason to believe they were not obligated to pay for the gas?

and if someone sends something to you in error, its not yours. what contract or agreement exists or transaction took place that makes it yours?

[Steady]

If a company sends me merchandise I did not order, then (according to the courts) I have the legal right to keep the merchandise without paying for it.

Is that "right" ? If the company made an honest mistake, I would say, no it is not right, however, it is legal.

So, whether or not it is right or wrong, if a company delivers to me a "present" in the form of free gas, I believe in the U.S. it would be legal to take full advantage of it.

imho of course



In this case did the company give out "Presents"? Come on...

Was there a sign saying..."FREE Gas" Please take as much as you want. Consider it a gift....NO!

Thsi one person went back to get the same "Present", as you call it, 18 times in
one week.

Sarettah, if this was your store would you still agree with what you said.

Right and Legal are two totally different things.

Yes...Wrong...because they knew. Legally...They are thiefs.

[DrGuile]

Originally posted by Peaches@Jul 22 2005, 01:38 PM
Of course it's illegal. If something's not yours and you take it, it's stealing. Not really that hard to figure out.
Gotta go with Pugface on this one....

[Bhelliom]

It should be pointed out in the article that the people were caught becuase they put their credit cards into the pump. Had it been working they would have been charged.

I think that they made reasonable effort to pay for the gas. It really shouldn't be their fault that the machine happened to charge them 0

[EmporerEJ]

It's illegal here in the USA.... :salute:
But who knows with the french?
They have such a screwed up idea of right and wrong.......

[DrGuile]

Originally posted by Bhelliom@Jul 22 2005, 02:45 PM
It should be pointed out in the article that the people were caught becuase they put their credit cards into the pump. Had it been working they would have been charged.

I think that they made reasonable effort to pay for the gas. It really shouldn't be their fault that the machine happened to charge them 0
18 times, in one week...


ahahahha, do you sometimes sit and wonder what's wrong with society? Well you really shouldnt, its you that's the problem.

[Bhelliom]

For the record I'm an opportunist so I would have done the same thing.. legal or not.


Anyways I'm off to my cottage (which incidentally has the 7th best sunset in the world) for the weekend to get drunk and sunburned. HOpe everyone has a good time and I'll catch up on monday.


Ok no my cottage per se has the sunset... but the area.

Enjoy yourselves

[sarettah]

Originally posted by JR@Jul 22 2005, 02:04 PM
and if someone sends something to you in error, its not yours. what contract or agreement exists or transaction took place that makes it yours?
This one I can answer...the others will require thought :)

The courts decided that back in the 60s because one of the favorite scams being pulled back then was for a company to send you something you did not order, give you no means to send it back and then bill you for it and eventually take you to court to pay for something that you did not ever want in the first place.

If I remember right, it was a federal court decision because it had to do with the postal authorities.

I will see if I can find something on it.

Yes, I agree stealing is stealing, but, as evidenced by various legal precedents, stealing is not always illegal.... (yes, I will try to find some of them for you too :))

[Peaches]

Originally posted by sarettah@Jul 22 2005, 04:17 PM
The courts decided that back in the 60s because one of the favorite scams being pulled back then was for a company to send you something you did not order, give you no means to send it back and then bill you for it and eventually take you to court to pay for something that you did not ever want in the first place.

If I remember right, it was a federal court decision because it had to do with the postal authorities.
Which means it's LEGAL to keep something sent to you via the USPS that you didn't order.

However, it's ILLEGAL to steal gas which is why these people were arrested and convicted.

It's like bankruptcy - it's WRONG, but it's still LEGAL. What the people did with the gas was both wrong and illegal :okthumb:

[sarettah]

In the town of Buxton, NC, back in '79 or '80, they had a dollar machine for gas. You put a dollar bill in the slot and you could pump a bucks worth of gas.

One day, the machine broke. You didn't have to put a buck in, just pick up the handle and start pumping. There were folks that were filling up garbage cans with gasoline and driving off. The cops had every transaction on a camera from the station. They did try to prosecute a couple but the judges attitude was that it was the compay's fault for not ensuring that their equipment was in proper working order. The only person that was found guilty of anything was a guy that was still storing the gasoline in his backyard in a garbage can, he was nailed for an illegal container.

[Dravyk]

Originally posted by sarettah@Jul 22 2005, 03:17 PM
The courts decided that back in the 60s because one of the favorite scams being pulled back then was for a company to send you something you did not order, give you no means to send it back and then bill you for it and eventually take you to court to pay for something that you did not ever want in the first place.
Likewise, if a company puts in the paper a wrong price, say a $499 item in for $49, they can be taken to court if they do not fulfill the advertised price to customers.

This is similiar -- but both are nevertheless different from the broken gas pump. The gas pump one would be closer to say, walking down the street, seeing a store window broke, and then helping yourself to the goods the first guy left behind.

[TheEnforcer]

It definately is illegal.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by sarettah@Jul 22 2005, 12:33 PM
In the town of Buxton, NC, back in '79 or '80, they had a dollar machine for gas. You put a dollar bill in the slot and you could pump a bucks worth of gas.

One day, the machine broke. You didn't have to put a buck in, just pick up the handle and start pumping. There were folks that were filling up garbage cans with gasoline and driving off. The cops had every transaction on a camera from the station. They did try to prosecute a couple but the judges attitude was that it was the compay's fault for not ensuring that their equipment was in proper working order. The only person that was found guilty of anything was a guy that was still storing the gasoline in his backyard in a garbage can, he was nailed for an illegal container.
Bullshit!!!!

So if an ATM machine churns out money you can take it?

That sounds like an "urban legend"

[sarettah]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Jul 22 2005, 03:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Jul 22 2005, 03:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-sarettah@Jul 22 2005, 12:33 PM
In the town of Buxton, NC, back in '79 or '80, they had a dollar machine for gas. You put a dollar bill in the slot and you could pump a bucks worth of gas.

One day, the machine broke. You didn't have to put a buck in, just pick up the handle and start pumping. There were folks that were filling up garbage cans with gasoline and driving off. The cops had every transaction on a camera from the station. They did try to prosecute a couple but the judges attitude was that it was the compay's fault for not ensuring that their equipment was in proper working order. The only person that was found guilty of anything was a guy that was still storing the gasoline in his backyard in a garbage can, he was nailed for an illegal container.
Bullshit!!!!

So if an ATM machine churns out money you can take it?

That sounds like an "urban legend" [/b][/quote]
Nopers, I lived there at the time.

I don't know what would happen with the ATM as far as a court decision would go. I am sure that that has already happened at some point.

I looked for any info on the Buxton thing, but it was pre net and Buxton is a tiny town so I can't back it except to contact other folks that remember it.

Funniest part about it was the gas machine was directly across the street from one of the town cops and he did nothing to stop it although he could tell something was up with folks all lined up with buckets and stuff.

It was a big to do at the time, but then again, in Buxton, a sneeze is a big to do... :yowsa:

[Dravyk]

We gotta get a lawyer on this board one of these days. Seriously, that would be cool for when stuff comes up. (hint, hint)

[Steady]

I remember a couple of years ago, I pulled up to my ATM machine to withdraw
$20.00 to get a bit to eat. At the time my balance was about $225.00. It gave me the money an a receipt with a blance showing $425,000.

I had a big smile on my face. I drove up to the bank, asked to speak to a bank officer and told her about my $20.00 ATM withdrawal. I showed her the receipt I got, from the ATM machine, showing my new and current balance of $425,00. I told her this must be a mistake. After a few minutes of investigating the matter, the bank officer thanked me for bring it to the attention of the bank.

Was it a gift from the bank?
Was that money mine, since it was showing it was in my bank account?
Or as the song says..."Take The Money and Run"!!

The important thing here is...I knew it was not mine. :cryin: