Advanced culture

[Evil Chris]

Who do you think, in this small world of ours, have the most advanced and progressed culture and society?

Look for attributes like maturity, way of life, possibly education and economics, crime & punishment or lack therof, and generally an overall sense of harmony and stability.

Name a people or a country if you wish.

[JR]

i have always been very impressed with Sweden.

[Newton]

Ants/termites for the small world :)

Luxembourg would be my choice for place and the people

[Dravyk]

Hands down, the answer is yogurt.

[Almighty Colin]

Oprano

[Evil Chris]

Originally posted by Almighty Colin@Jul 7 2005, 04:15 AM
Oprano
yeah, um I mentioned maturity didn't I?

[DrGuile]

42

[Evil Chris]

Sweden? Luxembourg?

Why?

[Trev]

I cry with laughter if anyone says the French (France) :lol:


However I do think Canada is right up there :)

[Bhelliom]

France...

but only until the fusion reactor gets built.... then they'll just be a hole in the ground

[Trev]

Originally posted by Bhelliom@Jul 7 2005, 06:32 PM
France...

but only until the fusion reactor gets built.... then they'll just be a hole in the ground
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha

*GASP* *COUGH* *GASP*

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha




Don't talk shite! It's a fucking hole now and they've not even started the reactor!

[Newton]

Originally posted by Evil Chris@Jul 7 2005, 09:16 AM
Sweden? Luxembourg?

Why?
Luxembourg is a stable, high-income economy in between France, Belgium, and Germany which features solid growth, low inflation, low unemployment and an extraordinarily high standard of living.

It has 227 banks in the main Luxembourg City at the last count, which is a very small city, plus it has tax haven status.

Only 82km (51mi) long and 58km (36mi) wide, Luxembourg is slightly smaller than the US state of Rhode Island and not much larger than metropolitan London.

Multilingualism is universal among Luxembourgers, and both the German and French languages are used in the press, in politics and in daily life. French is most common in government and schools, though Luxembourgish is the language you'll hear most frequently on the street. English is widely understood in tourist areas.

There is a 42-kilometre strip along the country's southeastern flank, known as the AC Moselle Luxembourgoise, where 1,300 hectares of vines grow on the left-bank of the Moselle river. Vines are not allowed to be planted anywhere else, thus this is Luxembourg's one and only appellation (Crémant de Luxembourg being a designation within AC Moselle Luxembourgoise). The vineyards are scattered around 28 towns and villages, from Wasserbillig in the north, to Schengen in the south. This viticultural area is the mirror image of the German Bereiche of Obermosel and Moseltor, which are situated on the right bank.

Its almost a fairytale area, with the capital being built on the ruins of castle, leading up from the 'Grund', where the peasants used to live within the castle walls. Intensely beautiful and a stunning mix of cultures.

[JR]

Originally posted by Evil Chris@Jul 7 2005, 09:16 AM
Sweden? Luxembourg?

Why?
Sweden has one of the highest standards of living in the world. I have been all over Sweden and I am always struck by the general standard of living. In most countries, there is a stark contrast between the rich/poor, haves/have-nots etc. Sweden does not really have all that. It almost seems as if the entire country is middle/upper class.

I have considered moving to Sweden more than once.

(its not a commentary on socialism vs capitalism yada yada yada and i dont believe that what worked for a country with a population of Los Angeles can work on a larger scale where social problems and their costs grow exponentially with population)

Luxembourg is nice too. Very nice. I like visiting Luxembourg. But it should be nice with the innordinant concentration of wealth they have there. If there was more to do there, I could see myself living there as well.

[Trev]

Originally posted by JR+Jul 7 2005, 07:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JR @ Jul 7 2005, 07:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Evil Chris@Jul 7 2005, 09:16 AM
Sweden? Luxembourg?

Why?
Sweden has one of the highest standards of living in the world. I have been all over Sweden and I am always struck by the general standard of living. In most countries, there is a stark contrast between the rich/poor, haves/have-nots etc. Sweden does not really have all that. It almost seems as if the entire country is middle/upper class.

I have considered moving to Sweden more than once.

(its not a commentary on socialism vs capitalism yada yada yada and i dont believe that what worked for a country with a population of Los Angeles can work on a larger scale where social problems and their costs grow exponentially with population)

Luxembourg is nice too. Very nice. I like visiting Luxembourg. But it should be nice with the innordinant concentration of wealth they have there. If there was more to do there, I could see myself living there as well. [/b][/quote]
The Tax they pay is above and beyond most countries as well.

[JR]

Originally posted by Trev@Jul 7 2005, 10:40 AM

The Tax they pay is above and beyond most countries as well.
their taxes are high... but from my experience, its one of the only countries where you get your moneys worth. for example taxes are higher in Denmark and relative to taxes, Copenhagen is a shithole in my opinion (although many think its really nice)

taxes at the end of the day is simply a question of business structure and planning. taxes are a scam on poor folk. not a burden to rich folk. i am guessing that Ingvar Kamprad did not become the worlds richest man (and Swede) while paying 40% of his income to the Swedish government ;)

[Trev]

Originally posted by JR+Jul 7 2005, 07:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JR @ Jul 7 2005, 07:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Trev@Jul 7 2005, 10:40 AM

The Tax they pay is above and beyond most countries as well.
their taxes are high... but from my experience, its one of the only countries where you get your moneys worth. for example taxes are higher in Denmark and relative to taxes, Copenhagen is a shithole in my opinion (although many think its really nice)

taxes at the end of the day is simply a question of business structure and planning. taxes are a scam on poor folk. not a burden to rich folk. i am guessing that Ingvar Kamprad did not become the worlds richest man (and Swede) while paying 40% of his income to the Swedish government ;) [/b][/quote]
Agreed on Copenhagen, it's a nice place but I've been to much better. I also knew about 300 people in Kristianstad that would disagree that they get what they pay for when it comes to their taxes.

Another thing that gets me is that Sweden is one of the most expensive places in Europe to purchase alcohol. Yet even with that and what they pay in tax they've got one of the highest rates of alcoholism.

[Evil Chris]

Taxes in Scandinavia are indeed high. Norway's cost of living is right up there as well.

[Newton]

I have never been to Sweden, Denmark yes, so would like to check it out at some point.

Luxembourg is a nice place to chill out in JR, a place you can go to relax and get away from the hustle and bustle if you need. I have a lot of friends still living there and its lovely walking through the vineyards in summer.

[Dravyk]

Another thing that gets me is that Sweden is one of the most expensive places in Europe to purchase alcohol.
I was already to move to Sweden. Until I read that. :(



Btw, I'm not an alcoholic. I'm of Irish descent! :hic:

[JR]

Originally posted by Newton@Jul 7 2005, 11:06 AM
I have never been to Sweden, Denmark yes, so would like to check it out at some point.

Luxembourg is a nice place to chill out in JR, a place you can go to relax and get away from the hustle and bustle if you need. I have a lot of friends still living there and its lovely walking through the vineyards in summer.
yeah... thats how i would describe luxembourg. very tranquil and peaceful. on a weekend, its absolutely quiet.

[EroticySteve]

Originally posted by Newton@Jul 6 2005, 09:51 PM
Ants/termites for the small world :)

Luxembourg would be my choice for place and the people
Newton, all 12 people in Luxembourg say thank you! :)

[EroticySteve]

Originally posted by Evil Chris@Jul 7 2005, 11:00 AM
Taxes in Scandinavia are indeed high. Norway's cost of living is right up there as well.
Cost of living may be higher in some places, but the standard of living can far exceed the costs. I hear from Germans all of the time that despite their higher cost of living they wouldn't trade it for the world.

[Newton]

Originally posted by EroticySteve+Jul 7 2005, 02:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (EroticySteve @ Jul 7 2005, 02:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Evil Chris@Jul 7 2005, 11:00 AM
Taxes in Scandinavia are indeed high. Norway's cost of living is right up there as well.
Cost of living may be higher in some places, but the standard of living can far exceed the costs. I hear from Germans all of the time that despite their higher cost of living they wouldn't trade it for the world. [/b][/quote]
Its funny to watch Germans driving over the border with their boots full of suitcases of cash, trying to slip it into Luxembourg banks, if they are caught on the border they are truly fucked lol

[MorganGrayson]

Originally posted by Newton@Jul 7 2005, 11:06 AM
I have never been to Sweden, Denmark yes, so would like to check it out at some point.

Luxembourg is a nice place to chill out in JR, a place you can go to relax and get away from the hustle and bustle if you need. I have a lot of friends still living there and its lovely walking through the vineyards in summer.
Ah, Newton...a loaf of bread, a jug of wine, and thee beside me singing in the...vineyards. :yowsa:

[Newton]

Originally posted by MorganGrayson+Jul 7 2005, 03:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MorganGrayson @ Jul 7 2005, 03:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Newton@Jul 7 2005, 11:06 AM
I have never been to Sweden, Denmark yes, so would like to check it out at some point.

Luxembourg is a nice place to chill out in JR, a place you can go to relax and get away from the hustle and bustle if you need. I have a lot of friends still living there and its lovely walking through the vineyards in summer.
Ah, Newton...a loaf of bread, a jug of wine, and thee beside me singing in the...vineyards. :yowsa: [/b][/quote]
Thats not me, I don't sing :D

[Trev]

Originally posted by Newton+Jul 8 2005, 12:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Newton @ Jul 8 2005, 12:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by MorganGrayson@Jul 7 2005, 03:16 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Newton@Jul 7 2005, 11:06 AM
I have never been to Sweden, Denmark yes, so would like to check it out at some point.

Luxembourg is a nice place to chill out in JR, a place you can go to relax and get away from the hustle and bustle if you need. I have a lot of friends still living there and its lovely walking through the vineyards in summer.
Ah, Newton...a loaf of bread, a jug of wine, and thee beside me singing in the...vineyards. :yowsa:
Thats not me, I don't sing :D [/b][/quote]
One of the hardest to get ladies on the internet... and you're not willing to sing :o

[Newton]

Originally posted by Trev+Jul 7 2005, 03:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Trev @ Jul 7 2005, 03:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Newton@Jul 8 2005, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by MorganGrayson@Jul 7 2005, 03:16 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Newton@Jul 7 2005, 11:06 AM
I have never been to Sweden, Denmark yes, so would like to check it out at some point.

Luxembourg is a nice place to chill out in JR, a place you can go to relax and get away from the hustle and bustle if you need. I have a lot of friends still living there and its lovely walking through the vineyards in summer.
Ah, Newton...a loaf of bread, a jug of wine, and thee beside me singing in the...vineyards. :yowsa:
Thats not me, I don't sing :D
One of the hardest to get ladies on the internet... and you're not willing to sing :o [/b][/quote]
Mate, if I could sing I would .. I hate torturing people unless its for money ... ;)

[Trev]

Originally posted by Newton+Jul 8 2005, 01:03 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Newton @ Jul 8 2005, 01:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Trev@Jul 7 2005, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by Newton@Jul 8 2005, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by MorganGrayson@Jul 7 2005, 03:16 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Newton@Jul 7 2005, 11:06 AM
I have never been to Sweden, Denmark yes, so would like to check it out at some point.

Luxembourg is a nice place to chill out in JR, a place you can go to relax and get away from the hustle and bustle if you need. I have a lot of friends still living there and its lovely walking through the vineyards in summer.
Ah, Newton...a loaf of bread, a jug of wine, and thee beside me singing in the...vineyards. :yowsa:
Thats not me, I don't sing :D
One of the hardest to get ladies on the internet... and you're not willing to sing :o
Mate, if I could sing I would .. I hate torturing people unless its for money ... ;) [/b][/quote]
I hear you :)

[Evil Chris]

Originally posted by Newton+Jul 7 2005, 06:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Newton @ Jul 7 2005, 06:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by EroticySteve@Jul 7 2005, 02:18 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Evil Chris@Jul 7 2005, 11:00 AM
Taxes in Scandinavia are indeed high. Norway's cost of living is right up there as well.
Cost of living may be higher in some places, but the standard of living can far exceed the costs. I hear from Germans all of the time that despite their higher cost of living they wouldn't trade it for the world.
Its funny to watch Germans driving over the border with their boots full of suitcases of cash, trying to slip it into Luxembourg banks, if they are caught on the border they are truly fucked lol [/b][/quote]
That's actually true, however it was the other way around.
Germans had literally billions of Deutsch Marks stashed away in Luxembourg banks and right before the Euro took over as the standard currency, they were all trying to get their money out without visiting "der zoll" (customs).

Many of them lost entire life savings as the Mark became a worthless piece of paper.

[Newton]

Originally posted by Evil Chris+Jul 7 2005, 06:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Evil Chris @ Jul 7 2005, 06:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Newton@Jul 7 2005, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by EroticySteve@Jul 7 2005, 02:18 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Evil Chris@Jul 7 2005, 11:00 AM
Taxes in Scandinavia are indeed high. Norway's cost of living is right up there as well.
Cost of living may be higher in some places, but the standard of living can far exceed the costs. I hear from Germans all of the time that despite their higher cost of living they wouldn't trade it for the world.
Its funny to watch Germans driving over the border with their boots full of suitcases of cash, trying to slip it into Luxembourg banks, if they are caught on the border they are truly fucked lol
That's actually true, however it was the other way around.
Germans had literally billions of Deutsch Marks stashed away in Luxembourg banks and right before the Euro took over as the standard currency, they were all trying to get their money out without visiting "der zoll" (customs).

Many of them lost entire life savings as the Mark became a worthless piece of paper. [/b][/quote]
It still happens .. Last time I was there two guys got caught with a few million euros in their boot on the border trying to get it across, to avoid german banks and tax ;)

On a Sunday they typically come over for cheaper petrol prices, coffee and cigarettes and literally take as many containers as they can. The police try to stop them as they are effectively a moving bomb with so much petrol in every conceivable can to over flowing.

I was there one day when a friend of mine went to the petrol station, she found this old lady crying sitting on a wall .. naturally she approached her and the old lady proceeded to explain .. "my son came over the border to get petrol and he forgot me and drove off" ... the guy seriously forgot his own mother and left her there. Naturally the police were called and the guy busted as he was now well into Germany and had to come back, pay a huge fine and pick his mother up ;)

[grimm]

Originally posted by Newton+Jul 7 2005, 10:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Newton @ Jul 7 2005, 10:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Evil Chris@Jul 7 2005, 09:16 AM
Sweden? Luxembourg?

Why?
Luxembourg is a stable, high-income economy in between France, Belgium, and Germany which features solid growth, low inflation, low unemployment and an extraordinarily high standard of living.

It has 227 banks in the main Luxembourg City at the last count, which is a very small city, plus it has tax haven status.

Only 82km (51mi) long and 58km (36mi) wide, Luxembourg is slightly smaller than the US state of Rhode Island and not much larger than metropolitan London.

Multilingualism is universal among Luxembourgers, and both the German and French languages are used in the press, in politics and in daily life. French is most common in government and schools, though Luxembourgish is the language you'll hear most frequently on the street. English is widely understood in tourist areas.

There is a 42-kilometre strip along the country's southeastern flank, known as the AC Moselle Luxembourgoise, where 1,300 hectares of vines grow on the left-bank of the Moselle river. Vines are not allowed to be planted anywhere else, thus this is Luxembourg's one and only appellation (Crémant de Luxembourg being a designation within AC Moselle Luxembourgoise). The vineyards are scattered around 28 towns and villages, from Wasserbillig in the north, to Schengen in the south. This viticultural area is the mirror image of the German Bereiche of Obermosel and Moseltor, which are situated on the right bank.

Its almost a fairytale area, with the capital being built on the ruins of castle, leading up from the 'Grund', where the peasants used to live within the castle walls. Intensely beautiful and a stunning mix of cultures. [/b][/quote]
isnt it also socialist?

[grimm]

Originally posted by Trev+Jul 7 2005, 10:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Trev @ Jul 7 2005, 10:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by JR@Jul 7 2005, 07:02 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Evil Chris@Jul 7 2005, 09:16 AM
Sweden? Luxembourg?

Why?
Sweden has one of the highest standards of living in the world. I have been all over Sweden and I am always struck by the general standard of living. In most countries, there is a stark contrast between the rich/poor, haves/have-nots etc. Sweden does not really have all that. It almost seems as if the entire country is middle/upper class.

I have considered moving to Sweden more than once.

(its not a commentary on socialism vs capitalism yada yada yada and i dont believe that what worked for a country with a population of Los Angeles can work on a larger scale where social problems and their costs grow exponentially with population)

Luxembourg is nice too. Very nice. I like visiting Luxembourg. But it should be nice with the innordinant concentration of wealth they have there. If there was more to do there, I could see myself living there as well.
The Tax they pay is above and beyond most countries as well. [/b][/quote]
as it is in most socialist economies. hence the cleanliness and such. high standard of living is the only way of living.

[Rolo]

Originally posted by JR@Jul 7 2005, 10:45 AM
their taxes are high... but from my experience, its one of the only countries where you get your moneys worth. for example taxes are higher in Denmark and relative to taxes, Copenhagen is a shithole in my opinion (although many think its really nice)
You can become a "researcher" or a "key employee" in a danish company or foreign company with operations in Denmark, and only pay 25% tax ;-)

http://www.workindenmark.dk/Tax_scheme/0/4/0

And if you buy/rent a flat/house in north of copenhagen, then you can drive to Sweden via the Oresund Bridge http://osb.oeresundsbron.dk/frontpage/?lang=1 it only takes 20 mins or so ;-))

[Trev]

Originally posted by Rolo+Jul 8 2005, 09:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rolo @ Jul 8 2005, 09:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-JR@Jul 7 2005, 10:45 AM
their taxes are high... but from my experience, its one of the only countries where you get your moneys worth. for example taxes are higher in Denmark and relative to taxes, Copenhagen is a shithole in my opinion (although many think its really nice)
You can become a "researcher" or a "key employee" in a danish company or foreign company with operations in Denmark, and only pay 25% tax ;-)

http://www.workindenmark.dk/Tax_scheme/0/4/0

And if you buy/rent a flat/house in north of copenhagen, then you can drive to Sweden via the Oresund Bridge http://osb.oeresundsbron.dk/frontpage/?lang=1 it only takes 20 mins or so ;-)) [/b][/quote]
I wouldn't mind crossing that bridge as they were building it the last time I was in Copenhagen (1997-8'ish).

Plus it's got to be quicker than them god awful ferries :P

[Rolo]

Yeah, and with the new bridges and highways in Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Finland, then you could make a nice road trip in the summer ;-)

[Trev]

Originally posted by Rolo@Jul 8 2005, 09:51 AM
Yeah, and with the new bridges and highways in Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Finland, then you could make a nice road trip in the summer ;-)
If I ever did Denmark and Sweden again it would be with a suitcase full of money and without the wife :yowsa:

The air or the water over there really does something special to the women :D

[Dravyk]

Originally posted by Trev@Jul 8 2005, 04:01 AM
If I ever did Denmark and Sweden again it would be with a suitcase full of money and without the wife :yowsa:

The air or the water over there really does something special to the women :D
I thought it was the "without the wife" part that did something special to the women over there. :awinky:

[Evil Chris]

Well here's my take....

Sorry, but Luxembourg is out. Way out. Firstly they have almost no culture to call their own. It's all French, German, Belge, and Dutch influence. Secondly, try to buy a small plot of land or a home dwelling in Luxembourg. Two problems there... expense and rare. So for me, Luxembourg doesn't even come to mind.

I would rather choose lower Germanic countries such as Austria, Switzerland, and southern Germany. Still somewhat expensive to buy land and/or homes, but the people are very content in their ways and traditions and live long, happy, and healthy lives. The landscape is absolutely gorgeous and the weather very agreeable.