venturi
06-15-2005, 04:20 AM
This is basically a rant (partially abridged) I wrote on another board in response to the ever increasing amount of off-shore assclowns touting their slave wares. I figured I should post it here and see what the Opranauts have to say about my opinions. Gonzo is definitely one big fat bastard, but if it weren't for him I wouldn't be clogging your bandwidth to begin with. :)
So, feel free to trash me, flame me, BBQ me - or if so inclined agree with me. This is an issue close to me because of my IT/IS background. Only supportive, satirical and/or cynical replies are allowed in this thread ... all others will suffer the wrath of, ummm... THOR! Yeah, that's who!
As an outsourcing resource (not spelled offshoring from the US), I would never take a gig based upon monthly/weekly rates unless it was a long-term (semi)exclusive engagement. In other words, you trust me and I trust you and we come to an arrangement for continuuing projects/work.
What I really find frightening though is that all of these off-shore "outsourcing" companies come in touting prices that are 1/10th of the hourly rate a good programmer/designer/etc would charge in a 1st or 2nd world country. In my long experience with the corporate world I worked with and had many subordinates whose country of origin was one of these (sorry) "depressed" countries. They all commanded comparable salaries to their American counterparts. They got paid good wages, and lived comfortably here in the US. We (the company) sponsored them for their H1 status and gave them full benefits.
These "outsourcing" - properly spelled "off-shore sweat shop" companies however offer their employees basically nothing. They get crap wages - one example and not directed at the company in this thread offered "$899USD for a 100% dedicated to you developer working 40hrs per week per month." Do the math: that is $5.10/hr for a supposedly skilled craftsman in the IT industry - in other words less than making fries at McDonalds pays. And THAT assumes that said employee gets 100% of that $899/mo. I am betting that the best case scenario is that said employee gets about 40% of that fee as their salary, possibly after their local taxes. So, best case, by my assumption, is they are making $2.03/hr for their "skilled" work. And I'm also betting that these possibly talented individuals don't get any health ins. or any other benefits for their efforts.
Becoming a skilled craftsman in any trade, be it here on the interweb with graphic design, HTML, programming, marketing, text writing, etc. takes Time, Tools, Money to buy Tools and Knowlege. Paramount though is Time. You don't become a graphic artist over night. You can't possibly become a quality programmer after taking a tutorial on PHP. To a degree, the ability to do these things, like writing, may be innate - but honing said abilities or aptitudes is a time intensive process. This is WHY people pay for these services. You may be a marketing genius, but likely you are not also a genius at writing copy, graphic design, site layout, Search Engine optimization nor building a programatic infrastructure.
I can appreciate people wanting to save money, but at what expense? And in all seriousness, how solid is anything you're paying someone $2/hr going to be? I don't care if $2/hr equates to the median income of their locale. These people aren't stupid. They know they are living well below what they are worth in the "real world". Why would they put their best effort forth for you? I surely wouldn't.
Shut down these low class operations! These opportunists are making bank off of the sweat and experience of good people. Boycott them, let them know they are the scourge of the internet. They bring nothing to the plate but oppression and degradation of the very people they "employ". I can not express how much I despise these charlatans.
I'm not saying hire me or someone like me instead - our rates are not cheap. All I'm asking is that before you sign a contract with someone to do any kind of work for you on the interweb that you consider all the factors. Try and be a little bit ethical, and yeah maybe a little sympathetic to the actual people that are working your project. If they are merely stupid (like I was for way too long) go ahead and pay their insanely low prices - otherwise realize that in 99.487563% of situations (all statistics are made up) you get what you pay for.
And if any of these so called "outsourcing" companies that in fact are "offshoring to 3rd world countries" cares to take a piss with me I say Bring It On!
So, feel free to trash me, flame me, BBQ me - or if so inclined agree with me. This is an issue close to me because of my IT/IS background. Only supportive, satirical and/or cynical replies are allowed in this thread ... all others will suffer the wrath of, ummm... THOR! Yeah, that's who!
As an outsourcing resource (not spelled offshoring from the US), I would never take a gig based upon monthly/weekly rates unless it was a long-term (semi)exclusive engagement. In other words, you trust me and I trust you and we come to an arrangement for continuuing projects/work.
What I really find frightening though is that all of these off-shore "outsourcing" companies come in touting prices that are 1/10th of the hourly rate a good programmer/designer/etc would charge in a 1st or 2nd world country. In my long experience with the corporate world I worked with and had many subordinates whose country of origin was one of these (sorry) "depressed" countries. They all commanded comparable salaries to their American counterparts. They got paid good wages, and lived comfortably here in the US. We (the company) sponsored them for their H1 status and gave them full benefits.
These "outsourcing" - properly spelled "off-shore sweat shop" companies however offer their employees basically nothing. They get crap wages - one example and not directed at the company in this thread offered "$899USD for a 100% dedicated to you developer working 40hrs per week per month." Do the math: that is $5.10/hr for a supposedly skilled craftsman in the IT industry - in other words less than making fries at McDonalds pays. And THAT assumes that said employee gets 100% of that $899/mo. I am betting that the best case scenario is that said employee gets about 40% of that fee as their salary, possibly after their local taxes. So, best case, by my assumption, is they are making $2.03/hr for their "skilled" work. And I'm also betting that these possibly talented individuals don't get any health ins. or any other benefits for their efforts.
Becoming a skilled craftsman in any trade, be it here on the interweb with graphic design, HTML, programming, marketing, text writing, etc. takes Time, Tools, Money to buy Tools and Knowlege. Paramount though is Time. You don't become a graphic artist over night. You can't possibly become a quality programmer after taking a tutorial on PHP. To a degree, the ability to do these things, like writing, may be innate - but honing said abilities or aptitudes is a time intensive process. This is WHY people pay for these services. You may be a marketing genius, but likely you are not also a genius at writing copy, graphic design, site layout, Search Engine optimization nor building a programatic infrastructure.
I can appreciate people wanting to save money, but at what expense? And in all seriousness, how solid is anything you're paying someone $2/hr going to be? I don't care if $2/hr equates to the median income of their locale. These people aren't stupid. They know they are living well below what they are worth in the "real world". Why would they put their best effort forth for you? I surely wouldn't.
Shut down these low class operations! These opportunists are making bank off of the sweat and experience of good people. Boycott them, let them know they are the scourge of the internet. They bring nothing to the plate but oppression and degradation of the very people they "employ". I can not express how much I despise these charlatans.
I'm not saying hire me or someone like me instead - our rates are not cheap. All I'm asking is that before you sign a contract with someone to do any kind of work for you on the interweb that you consider all the factors. Try and be a little bit ethical, and yeah maybe a little sympathetic to the actual people that are working your project. If they are merely stupid (like I was for way too long) go ahead and pay their insanely low prices - otherwise realize that in 99.487563% of situations (all statistics are made up) you get what you pay for.
And if any of these so called "outsourcing" companies that in fact are "offshoring to 3rd world countries" cares to take a piss with me I say Bring It On!