.xxx TLD Near Reality

[Aly_AVN]

http://www.avnonline.com/index.php?Primary...ntent_ID=228865 (http://www.avnonline.com/index.php?Primary_Navigation=Web_Exclusive_News&Action=View_Article&Content_ID=228865)


.xxx TLD Near Reality
By: MJ McMahon
Posted: 2:46 pm PDT 6-1-2005


TORONTO - That .xxx TLD you first heard about five years ago? It’s about to become a reality.

.xxx was officially handed over to ICM Registry today, after they re-submitted their application to the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) to operate .xxx as a voluntary sponsored top-level domain (sTLD) last March. The TLD was first proposed to ICANN in 2000 and sat in limbo for some time.

“It took us three years to get the support of the industry and the free speech groups. We had to deal with parents and children’s groups that have their own issues. Obviously, we had to deal with trademark and free speech groups to make sure they are both secure and protected,” Jason Hendeles, vice president of strategic business development for ICM Registry, told AVNOnline.com.

ICM has invested more than $1.5 million towards developing a consensus and support for .xxx. They have worked with industry professionals to develop non-profit organization International Foundation for Online Responsibility (IFFOR), which will oversee the TLD. Webmasters who purchase a .xxx domain will agree to abide by the charter of the organization.

“As a voluntary TLD we offer the industry to chance to regularize their business procedures and become a much more legitimized industry as a result of this,” Hendeles said. “A lot of people are going to jump on it and we’re not forcing anyone to give up their .coms, but those people that are in the .xxx space are all indicating their agreement to act responsibly.”

Primarily, .xxx and IFFOR were designed to combat the scourge of child pornography.

“The application is aimed at creating an identifiable web area that will help battle child pornography, while at the same time enabling responsible adult-entertainment web site operators to self-organize and self-label on a voluntary basis,” said Stuart Lawley, president and chairman of ICM Registry.

The domain is expected to be available by the fourth quarter through any ICANN accredited registrar. With $10 of each registered domain going towards funding of IFFOR, .xxx’s will run slightly higher than .com’s.

“Ideally, those who choose to register their .xxx domain will belong to a more responsible group of adult webmasters. They will have a well funded, well respected organization to speak on their behalf as well as an established set of responsible business practices to live up to,” Hendeles said.

IFFOR will have a seven-person board of directors, some from the online adult industry, and will run without government interference.

“This approach demonstrates that voluntary initiatives that harness the power of technology and the self-organizing principles of the Internet are preferable to efforts that would impose top-down command-and-control regulation,” said Robert Corn-Revere, a partner at Davis Wright Tremaine, LLP and outside counsel to ICM Registry. “Individuals should be able to use these tools to make their own decisions about what to read or watch, and not have those choices imposed by governments. In this regard, creation of a voluntary .xxx domain is a step in the right direction.”

[TheEnforcer]

Asa long as they don't try and take away the .coms I have no problems with it. heck, I'll probably try and snap some nice one and two worders up if at all possible.

:)

[Newton]

ah fuck it ..

New.net has been selling these for ages, plus I also get weird tracking shit on my computer from visiting the site and downloading the plugin personally, so be warned

I am going to stick to dot coms ..

[Nickatilynx]

Great way to filter out porn.

Put it a filter to block ant .xxx domain on all office based puters etc etc...

I think I'll pass on them LOL

[Red]

This may start out with "no government interference," but how long will it remain that way? Once they put us all together in a nice little group, it will be that much easier for them to get rid of us.

I think the majority of adult webmasters are responsible. How about parents taking responsibility for what their children surf. Why not make parental filters mandatory? Why not have parents pay some attention to what their kids are doing on their computers?

Asking us to change TLD's will not stop child pornography. Do they think people dealng in kiddie porn are going to "act responsibly?" It won't make one bit of difference.

[Newton]

I personally don't see many adult webmasters crawling on bended knees over broken glass to pick these peanuts out of the shit.

[Anthony]

I was at the meeting with you Aly when they proposed this. There were more nays then there were yeas.

I didn't support this then, I sure as shit don't support this now.

Put us in that ghetto. Perfect.

[SykkBoy]

bad bad bad bad idea

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by Red@Jun 1 2005, 06:40 PM
I think the majority of adult webmasters are responsible. How about parents taking responsibility for what their children surf. Why not make parental filters mandatory? Why not have parents pay some attention to what their kids are doing on their computers?

what about people who take child-related domains and point them towards porn domains? I think that draws more wrath than the fear Little Billy is going to type in dirtycocksuckers.com and not end up a Nickelodeon site.....

[Timon]

EXCELLENT way to filter out porn...

ok everyone volunteer their .COM domains.... who goes first? :groucho:

[Dravyk]

I'd love to know what adult industry professionals these wankers actually worked with. Anyone with a brain cell knows this is a bad thing. So I'm sure they are either lying in that article or they found a couple of celebrity morons to back them. Either way, $1.5M invested??? I can think of better things for them to have done with the money. With luck, it should be a flop.

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by Dravyk@Jun 2 2005, 12:33 AM
I'd love to know what adult industry professionals these wankers actually worked with. Anyone with a brain cell knows this is a bad thing. So I'm sure they are either lying in that article or they found a couple of celebrity morons to back them. Either way, $1.5M invested??? I can think of better things for them to have done with the money. With luck, it should be a flop.


They will make their investment back the first day.

[Timon]

I'm sure thousands of webmasters will flock to secure the good domains, and at $60 a pop it will add up.

[gonzo]

Aly I sure hope like hell they are paying you enough. Heat for Internext and now this bag of shit. Since you posted it...care to comment on how you think this is a good thing?

[Rolo]

.xxx, .info, .eu - blah blah blah... with so many new tlds then the ones winning in the end will be search engines.

Oh, and that .xxx is a very bad idea - whoever support this, must either think they will control (HAHAHA) the new tld, or they are religious fruitcakes that want to control porn on the internet (HAHAHA)...

Has .kill tld been suggested yet? :headwall:

[Newton]

Does AVN support the .xxx domain or not ?

”There is also a strong case for having a content-specific gTLD (and corresponding SLDs under ccTLDs) such as .xxx or .sex. Sexually explicit services could then be legally required to operate with domain names in this gTLD (or SLD under a ccTLD) that would make it much simpler and easier to control access to such sites to protect children from the whitehouse.com problem, for example. This would not be to impose censorship or restrict free speech, but would restore an effective means for consumer choice which sites like whitehouse.com subvert by exploiting that present ‘inherent propensity to confuse’). Similarly, non-commercial sites, including sites for abuse or complaint might usefully be allocated a specific SLD for that purpose.”
Tom Hymes, AVN Online

http://www7.nationalacademies.org/itas/whitepaper_7.html

[Almighty Colin]

CNN article today.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/internet/06/0...n.ap/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/internet/06/01/internet.porn.ap/index.html)

(same info)

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Mike AI+Jun 2 2005, 12:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike AI @ Jun 2 2005, 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Dravyk@Jun 2 2005, 12:33 AM
I'd love to know what adult industry professionals these wankers actually worked with. Anyone with a brain cell knows this is a bad thing. So I'm sure they are either lying in that article or they found a couple of celebrity morons to back them. Either way, $1.5M invested??? I can think of better things for them to have done with the money. With luck, it should be a flop.


They will make their investment back the first day. [/b][/quote]
From just a few people ;-)

[Anthony]

AVN is involved in this. Without a doubt.

When we voted in that meeting, there were more NO's than Yes's.

AVN writes up the article that it we voted yes.

Why is that?

[Anthony]

Why was Ron Levi paying for people to get into the meeting?

[gonzo]

Very good questions for Aly, Anth!
Im sure she will come back by to respond and this wasnt a drive by.

[Rolo]

This is what the COPA Commission said about .xxx:


E. New Top-Level Domain/Zoning

10. Establishment of a gTLD for harmful to minors content
Creation for voluntary use of a new top level domain (e.g., .xxx or .adult) the use of which would be understood to signify that materials on web pages located in such domain (and email coming from such domain) are harmful to minors materials -- and the existence of which would make it easy for browsers or ISPs to filter out all material so located.

Commentary

This method is technically feasible but such a domain does not currently exist. It requires that ICANN establish such a new top-level domain.

This system may be only moderately effective because of questions about whether harmful to minors content sources would locate material exclusively in the .xxx domain. This method also may be inapplicable to chat, email, newsgroups and instant messaging. Use of the domain name system to implement policy raises concerns.

Privacy and First Amendment concerns may be raised by the clear identification of a "red light district" and the stigma involved in being found there, and the concern about a "slippery slope" toward mandatory location in the gTLD.

This approach raises the possibility of adverse effects on law enforcement, because creation of a "red light district" might serve as an attractive nuisance, and because incentives for law enforcement to prosecute unlawful material in the red light district might be reduced.

http://www.copacommission.org/report/newtopleveldomain.shtml

So even COPA thought .xxx was a bad idea....

[Rolo]

WHERE IS THE SUPPORT FOR A .XXX TLD?
The .xxx TLD is industry-led, market-driven and non-regulatory, and has drawn the support of a broad coalition of Internet stakeholders, including:

Child and family safety groups

Leaders/members of the global adult-entertainment industry have agreed to voluntarily participate

Free speech, privacy and security advocates

Information Technology (IT) experts

Public policy leaders

http://www.icmregistry.com/html/for_main_factsheet.html

Who are these leaders of the "global adult-entertainment industry"? Would they please stand up?

[Timon]

I call XXX.XXX

Nobody else register it, it's mine!!!!

[Trev]

People are expected to pay over the odds for domain names AND have to follow rules that can be revised at any time:

WHAT WILL BE THE OBLIGATIONS OF .XXX TLD REGISTRANTS?
Participating Internet content and service providers believe that responsible self-regulation is essential to the industry’s continuing viability in the global marketplace. Internet content and service providers that voluntarily register the domain names will adhere to a high-level set of business practices, embodied in an enforceable contract between the Registrant and ICM Registry. The credibility of such practices cannot be preserved by the one time creation of a set of responsible business practices: iFOR must establish, revise and continually update these practices to accommodate developments in technologies and societal expectations.

Thanks but no thanks...

[Mike AI]

This is just another ploy from AVN to make more money for themselves, and those who spend big money with them. It would not surprise me if R-n and others are invovled and will profit handsomely.

One day people will wake up and realize AVN does not care about anyon but the fat cats - mostly those from the video side.

It has been like this from day one. Too bad, eventually AVN will turn as much as the adult industry they can to the fat cats.

[Timon]

Don't hate the player, hate the game ;-)

[Rolo]

An old article:


Unlikely Alliance Seeks .xxx Top-Level Domain

The extreme diversity of the individuals who have banded together to seek a sponsored top-level Internet domain (sTLD)--.xxx--for adult entertainment may be the strongest asset of their application, said the business executive who played a key role in getting them to work together.

"They are radicals on all ends of the spectrum," said Stuart Lawley, who helped develop the application, in an interview. "It's a very disparate group and getting them together was a major feat. But it's all about responsible behavior."

Seeking the sTLD from the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) is the International Foundation for Online Responsibility (IFOR.) IFOR, whose representatives cover a wide range, is a Canadian non-profit group that would set policy for the .xxx sTLD. The ICM Registry, of Jupiter, Fla, would operate the actual registry.

Lawley, chairman and president of the ICM Registry, said the only way to develop a workable ICANN application was to get all sides on the issue to work together.

The application, according to Lawley, is aimed at creating an identifiable Web area that will help protect children from unwanted adult content, while at the same time enabling "responsible adult-entertainment Web site operators to self-organize and self-regulate on a voluntary basis." Lawley said the fact that IFOR's composition is so diverse will support its application. ICANN is expected to rule on the application this summer.

IFOR's representatives are drawn from child- and family-protection groups; members of the adult-entertainment industry; free-speech, privacy and security advocates; public policy leaders; and IT experts. If the application is successful--a decision is expected this summer--ICM's backend IT work would be carried out by Afilias Global Registry Services.

Lawley said it is "absolutely vital" that the .xxx application go through as a sponsored domain. The measure would give child-protection and privacy advocates a voice in the control and development of adult entertainment. "If someone breaks the rules, their TLD could be taken away," he said.

Lawley said that, with the multibillion dollar adult-entertainment industry accounting for some 20 to 25 percent of Internet traffic, ICM projected 70,000 domains would sign up for the registry in five years. He estimated the total number of adult-entertainment domains roughly at between one and two million. "But we would expect to sign up most of the big players," he said.

As new technologies increasingly are faced with controlling adult entertainment, Lawley envisions the ICM Registry becoming a sort of clearing house on the issue. For instance, 3G mobile-phone operators, who are beginning to be concerned with adult material traveling over their networks, could consult with ICM and the IFOR foundation for guidance.

Lawley noted that .xxx could represent the identifier the Federal Trade Commission has been seeking to help control adult-oriented spam.

http://www.techweb.com/wire/26804584#_

Looks like Mr. Lawley was/is looking to help the FTC control the adult net... What a nice guy!

[DrGuile]

Man, that article is BS-O-Rama...

.xxx is a horrendous idea...

[Phoenix]

the blood is in the water, but does everyone know who the sharks are...

[gonzo]

Originally posted by Phoenix@Jun 2 2005, 10:10 AM
the blood is in the water, but does everyone know who the sharks are...
Ask TE he is our local authority on sharks.

[Newton]

HAHAHAHAHA

oooh

"For instance, 3G mobile-phone operators, who are beginning to be concerned with adult material traveling over their networks, could consult with ICM and the IFOR foundation for guidance."

I think not, all the 3g domains belong to me ... MUAHAHAHAHA

[Rolo]

This is their application to icann (or part of it):

http://www.icann.org/tlds/stld-apps-19mar04/xxx.htm

Company Information: ICM Registry, Inc http://www.icmregistry.com/
Sponsoring Organization Information: The International Foundation for Online Responsibility - http://www.iffor.org/

The iffor.org domain was created the 03/05/2004, the icann application is from the 03/19/2004 - 14 days later... who is IFFOR?


IFFOR, a Canadian not-for-profit corporation, is the sponsoring organization
for this application. IFFOR’s incorporation is the result of a four-year
outreach campaign to educate and mobilize the responsible online
adult-entertainment community (‘Community’) in connection with this initiative.


For now I only have the IFFOR organisational chart:

http://www.iffor.org/images/IFFOR_Org_Chart.gif

So is IFFOR the voice that have spoken on behalf of the adult industry? And if so, who are the members of IFFOR? Have anyone heard about them before?

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Timon@Jun 2 2005, 09:20 AM
I call XXX.XXX

Nobody else register it, it's mine!!!!
amsterdamnxxx.xxx

[Newton]

http://www.icann.org/tlds/stld-apps-19mar04/xxx.htm

[Rolo]

IFFOR got the support of the religious:


[stld-rfp-xxx] Great Idea
To: stld-rfp-xxx@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: [stld-rfp-xxx] Great Idea
From: "Benjamin Orteg" <borteg121@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 09:48:48 +0000
Cc: stld-rfp-general@xxxxxxxxx
Sender: owner-stld-rfp-xxx@xxxxxxxxx

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I find IFFOR's proposal for the .xxx to be a tremendous move forward for the Internet community. This should finally bring a degree of structure to the unharnessed adult content that falls onto the computers of children and minors.

However, it is not clear how IFFOR proposes to migrate the existing adult content within the .com domain over to the .xxx domain. Ideally, we should have all the adult content within an adult TLD. This is your goal IFFOR. No?

Benjamin Ortega
Atlanta, GA

http://forum.icann.org/lists/stld-rfp-xxx/msg00000.html

[Almighty Colin]

I don't even know any "responsible adult-entertainment Web site operators "; and I know a lot of ya.

[Trev]

vindieselwasthebest.xxx :D

[Almighty Colin]

I just got this in my email from Marketwatch.

Porn-friendly Web domain on the way

By Frank Barnako, MarketWatch
Last Update: 10:56 AM ET Jun 2, 2005
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- The group that manages the Internet has agreed to give adult Web sites their own dark corner of cyberspace.

The board of the Internet Corp. for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) said it will begin talks on a prospective contract with ICM Registry Inc. about the commercial and technical terms of establishing an ".xxx" domain. It could be operating by the end of the year.

Stuart Lawley, chairman and president of ICM, issued a statement saying, "Creation of a domain for adult Web sites will help protect children from exposure to online pornography." The voluntary .xxx will also "facilitate and protect free expression rights -- both for content providers and Internet users," Lawley said.

The number of adult Web sites has grown 18-fold over the last six years, he added. In an interview with Cnet last year, Lawley said .xxx domain names would cost $75.

ICM, a for-profit company with its principal office in Toronto, will handle the technical details of administering the domain.

The International Foundation for Online Responsibility, a nonprofit organization, will administer policies. A news release said the foundation's mission is "to participate in and support the development of programs and tools to fight child pornography, and to serve as a forum for the online adult-entertainment community to communicate with and pro-actively respond to the needs and concerns of the broader Internet community."

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by Almighty Colin@Jun 2 2005, 07:41 AM
I don't even know any "responsible adult-entertainment Web site operators "; and I know a lot of ya.
Bullshit!!!

Everytime someone gets some spam......., Microsoft , hotmail , AOL always say "Nickatilynx is responsible"

:)

[Rolo]

More info from the past...


By the end of this year, Internet users could have an extraordinarily convenient place to find pornography: a new .xxx top-level domain.

Stuart Lawley, a 41-year-old entrepreneur in Jupiter, Fla., is the unlikely champion for the online equivalent of a red-light district. A British citizen, Lawley swears that he's no smut-seller himself. "I have no current or historic links to the adult industry in any form," he asserts.

That appears to be true. Lawley started Oneview.net, a U.K. business Internet provider, in the 1990s and cashed out at the height of the dot-com craze in March 2000. A profile in the Guardian newspaper a few months earlier pegged his net worth to be in the tens of millions of dollars.

After a brief, sunny retirement in the Bahamas where he learned how to golf and spear fish, Lawley moved to Florida and got the itch to get involved with the Internet again.

"Sex is a very big area on the Internet," Lawley said. "Our research staff surprised me. I couldn't believe how prevalent it was and what the actual statistics were for the number of sites and the number of users."

Under his proposal, submitted last week to the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), .xxx domain names would be sold for $70 to $75 each. Child pornography would be verboten, but pretty much anything else would be permissible, Lawley said. "Apart from child pornography, which is completely illegal, we're really not in the content-monitoring business."

Instead, Lawley and his partners are in the business to make money. A report from Reuters Business Insight in February 2003 calculated that sex represented two-thirds of all online content revenue in 2001, and that it had ballooned to a $2.5 billion industry since then. Lawley estimates that 25 percent of all Internet search queries are related to sex and that over a million adult domain names exist. Owning the rights to sell pieces of .xxx real estate, he concluded, would be a perfect way to make money off of consumers' insatiable appetite for online raunch and ribaldry.

Free-expression issues
The way the proposed .xxx registry would work is twofold. Lawley's company, ICM Registry, would handle the technical aspects of running the master database of .xxx sex sites. For its troubles, it would charge $60 a domain name and let resellers add their own markup of perhaps $10 to $15 per domain.

A second, nonprofit organization, the International Foundation for Online Responsibility would be in charge of setting the rules for .xxx. It would have a seven-person board of directors, including a child advocacy advocate, a free-expression aficionado, and, naturally, at least one person from the adult entertainment industry. As president and chairman of ICM Registry, Lawley gives himself just one vote on the board.

The foundation's charter is intentionally quite protective of free speech. It aims to "protect the privacy and security of consenting adult consumers of online adult-entertainment goods and services" and references the free-expression principles in the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Unlike online other suggestions for innocuous top-level domains like .travel or .jobs, the proposal for .xxx plunges the Internet into a political stew that's already at a roiling boil. The FCC recently has been tossing around penalties for "indecent" radio broadcasts, while Attorney General John Ashcroft has indicated that a crackdown on obscene Web sites is about to take place.

The problem, in other words, is that as soon as .xxx launches, conservatives in Congress will begin to clamor for laws to make the domain mandatory for sex-related Web sites. That may not be a big deal for hard-core pornmeisters who prefer that virtual street address, but what about sex education sites that include explicit graphics and don't wish to be blocked by filtering software? And where should Salon.com--which features images of topless women--or Playboy.com--which publishes important interviews with U.S. presidents--end up?

Protecting children
This is not just a theoretical concern. Back in 2000, before Lawley got involved as president, ICM Registry applied to run the .xxx domain. But ICANN shot down the proposal.

It didn't take Congress long to get involved. At a hearing in February 2001, Rep. Fred Upton, R-Mich., demanded to know why ICANN didn't approve .xxx "as a means of protecting our kids from the awful, awful filth which is sometimes widespread on the Internet." Sen. Joseph Lieberman, D-Conn., griped to a federal commission that .xxx was necessary to force adult Webmasters to "abide by the same standard as the proprietor of an X-rated movie theater."

To his credit, Lawley is pledging a legal defense fund of $250,000 to "maintain the voluntary nature of the domain name system." He's also hired Robert Corn-Revere, a top-notch lawyer at Davis Wright Tremaine who has represented Playboy Entertainment Group before the U.S. Supreme Court, to research whether Congress could get away with ordering sex-themed Web sites to slap .xxx at the end of their address. Corn-Revere's conclusion: The .xxx folks "should prevail in any ensuing litigation if any attempt is made by the government to require registration in a .xxx domain."

Barry Steinhardt, head of the ACLU's technology and liberty program, isn't nearly as optimistic. "I am not quite so confident that we will prevail" under existing First Amendment precedents, Steinhardt said.

But the ACLU's real concerns with the proposal lie overseas. "There are nations all over the world that will undoubtedly try to force Web sites into the .xxx (top-level domain) or to block Web sites in it that they somehow view as offensive," Steinhardt said. "I don't think the operators have taken sufficient account of that problem. It will become a worldwide red-light district for the Internet, into which speakers who have free expression rights and should be able to reach a mass audience, will be forced."

Maybe U.S. politicians have matured in the last four years. Perhaps courts can now be trusted to do the right thing and uphold the First Amendment's guarantee of freedom of expression. But given that the House of Representatives voted by a 18-to-1 margin just two weeks ago to boost the penalties for "profane" broadcasts, the initially voluntary .xxx district may turn out to be a one-way street.

http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104-5176620.html

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Jun 2 2005, 10:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Jun 2 2005, 10:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Almighty Colin@Jun 2 2005, 07:41 AM
I don't even know any "responsible adult-entertainment Web site operators "; and I know a lot of ya.
Bullshit!!!

Everytime someone gets some spam......., Microsoft , hotmail , AOL always say "Nickatilynx is responsible"

:) [/b][/quote]
:wnw:

[gonzo]

Originally posted by Rolo@Jun 2 2005, 10:40 AM
IFFOR got the support of the religious:


[stld-rfp-xxx] Great Idea
To: stld-rfp-xxx@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: [stld-rfp-xxx] Great Idea
From: "Benjamin Orteg" <borteg121@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 09:48:48 +0000
Cc: stld-rfp-general@xxxxxxxxx
Sender: owner-stld-rfp-xxx@xxxxxxxxx

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I find IFFOR's proposal for the .xxx to be a tremendous move forward for the Internet community. This should finally bring a degree of structure to the unharnessed adult content that falls onto the computers of children and minors.

However, it is not clear how IFFOR proposes to migrate the existing adult content within the .com domain over to the .xxx domain. Ideally, we should have all the adult content within an adult TLD. This is your goal IFFOR. No?

Benjamin Ortega
Atlanta, GA

http://forum.icann.org/lists/stld-rfp-xxx/msg00000.html
Man and Bat has been contacted that falls in our local jurisdiction!

[Newton]

This is an interesting read on how it could potentially be forced through, under the "Truth in Domain Names Act"

http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,60145,00.html

[*KK*]

Wow, here's a surprise. This industry has gangrene in a leg so the idea is to give the foot a pedicure?

Real child pornographers don't give a fuck about .com, .xxx, or dot anyfuckingthing.

This isn't going to stop them, or even put a dent in their operations. All this does is make the rest of the adult internet into a sitting duck target.

I'm not sure that AVN supports or doesn't support the .xxx situation, they're simply reporting news it appears.

[Timon]

Originally posted by Almighty Colin+Jun 2 2005, 10:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Almighty Colin @ Jun 2 2005, 10:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Timon@Jun 2 2005, 09:20 AM
I call XXX.XXX

Nobody else register it, it's mine!!!!
amsterdamnxxx.xxx [/b][/quote]
oh I call amsterdamncumbath.xxx too :lol:

[gonzo]

Originally posted by *KK*@Jun 2 2005, 11:12 AM
Wow, here's a surprise. This industry has gangrene in a leg so the idea is to give the foot a pedicure?

Real child pornographers don't give a fuck about .com, .xxx, or dot anyfuckingthing.

This isn't going to stop them, or even put a dent in their operations. All this does is make the rest of the adult internet into a sitting duck target.

I'm not sure that AVN supports or doesn't support the .xxx situation, they're simply reporting news it appears.
What are you calling gangrene?

[Rolo]

Here is one more supporter, beside helmy/gigacash/asacp:


[stld-rfp-xxx] A Responsible First Step for the Adult Industry
To: <stld-rfp-xxx@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [stld-rfp-xxx] A Responsible First Step for the Adult Industry
From: "Lawrence G. Walters" <larry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:12:42 -0500
Importance: Normal
Organization: Weston, Garrou & DeWitt
Sender: owner-stld-rfp-xxx@xxxxxxxxx

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For the good of the adult Internet industry, this proposal should be approved. Having provided legal representation to the adult webmaster community since 1995, along with other facets of the adult industry for years before, I’ve seen many unsuccessful attempts to organize and speak with a united voice. Organizing in the adult Internet industry is essential; just as it is with any other highly-regulated industry. My law firm has represented the adult industry for over 40 years, and has been involved in many organizing efforts. It may be that the only way for this particular facet of the industry to organize is through a non-profit foundation structured to support both the online adult community and the broader Internet community funded through .xxx registration revenue. A .xxx domain name option will eventually become a reality, and the current proposal will result in significant benefit to the industry as a whole, given the significant funding that IFFOR could potentially secure for the purposes of lobbying, legal defense, and media outreach.

When compared to a generic TLD proposal, the current Sponsored TLD proposal is definitely preferable. In light of the current political climate in the United States and elsewhere, IFFOR could become a critical voice for the continued viability and success of the adult website industry. Regardless of one’s feelings concerning the esoteric advisability of a voluntary .xxx domain name registration option, the practical realities must be addressed. Some entity will ultimately convince ICANN to approve a TLD for the adult industry. The current proposal by ICM Registries, Inc., sponsored by IFFOR, will bestow benefits on the industry which far outweigh any of the potential concerns advanced to date. The webmaster community should get behind this proposal which will give something back, instead of waiting for another group to submit a generic TLD proposal based purely on profit motive.

http://forum.icann.org/lists/stld-rfp-xxx/msg00003.html

http://www.lawrencewalters.com/images/mainimage_home.jpg
http://www.lawrencewalters.com/

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by gonzo+Jun 2 2005, 10:14 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gonzo @ Jun 2 2005, 10:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Phoenix@Jun 2 2005, 10:10 AM
the blood is in the water, but does everyone know who the sharks are...
Ask TE he is our local authority on sharks. [/b][/quote]
:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Grump]

My guess what will happen next. Some local government will propose a law banning their population from having access to .xxx domains citing "community standards". ISP's will be ordered to block all access.

Then following the .us "no anonymous domain registration" edict, a similar law will come out banning anonymous .xxx registrations.

Nothing like herding your targets into a small enclosed area.

Long live King George!

[Sandee:)]

Originally posted by Grump@Jun 2 2005, 08:54 AM
My guess what will happen next. Some local government will propose a law banning their population from having access to .xxx domains citing "community standards". ISP's will be ordered to block all access.
No more porn for Asia :cryin:

Sandee:)

[gonzo]

Originally posted by Rolo@Jun 2 2005, 11:42 AM
Here is one more supporter, beside helmy/gigacash/asacp:


[stld-rfp-xxx] A Responsible First Step for the Adult Industry
To: <stld-rfp-xxx@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [stld-rfp-xxx] A Responsible First Step for the Adult Industry
From: "Lawrence G. Walters" <larry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:12:42 -0500
Importance: Normal
Organization: Weston, Garrou & DeWitt
Sender: owner-stld-rfp-xxx@xxxxxxxxx

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For the good of the adult Internet industry, this proposal should be approved. Having provided legal representation to the adult webmaster community since 1995, along with other facets of the adult industry for years before, I’ve seen many unsuccessful attempts to organize and speak with a united voice. Organizing in the adult Internet industry is essential; just as it is with any other highly-regulated industry. My law firm has represented the adult industry for over 40 years, and has been involved in many organizing efforts. It may be that the only way for this particular facet of the industry to organize is through a non-profit foundation structured to support both the online adult community and the broader Internet community funded through .xxx registration revenue. A .xxx domain name option will eventually become a reality, and the current proposal will result in significant benefit to the industry as a whole, given the significant funding that IFFOR could potentially secure for the purposes of lobbying, legal defense, and media outreach.

When compared to a generic TLD proposal, the current Sponsored TLD proposal is definitely preferable. In light of the current political climate in the United States and elsewhere, IFFOR could become a critical voice for the continued viability and success of the adult website industry. Regardless of one’s feelings concerning the esoteric advisability of a voluntary .xxx domain name registration option, the practical realities must be addressed. Some entity will ultimately convince ICANN to approve a TLD for the adult industry. The current proposal by ICM Registries, Inc., sponsored by IFFOR, will bestow benefits on the industry which far outweigh any of the potential concerns advanced to date. The webmaster community should get behind this proposal which will give something back, instead of waiting for another group to submit a generic TLD proposal based purely on profit motive.

http://forum.icann.org/lists/stld-rfp-xxx/msg00003.html

http://www.lawrencewalters.com/images/mainimage_home.jpg
http://www.lawrencewalters.com/
COCKSUCKER!!!

[Lee]

From what i recall, circa '03 werent the FSC for this idea because one (or more) of their members had significant financial ties to the .xxx registry people?

Again, i could be wrong but that was the first thing i thought of when i heard about this.

[Aly_AVN]

Originally posted by gonzo@Jun 1 2005, 10:14 PM
Aly I sure hope like hell they are paying you enough. Heat for Internext and now this bag of shit. Since you posted it...care to comment on how you think this is a good thing?
I do not, and have NEVER claimed otherwise.

It has also never been supported by AVN.

[gonzo]

Originally posted by Aly_AVN+Jun 2 2005, 02:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Aly_AVN @ Jun 2 2005, 02:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-gonzo@Jun 1 2005, 10:14 PM
Aly I sure hope like hell they are paying you enough. Heat for Internext and now this bag of shit. Since you posted it...care to comment on how you think this is a good thing?
I do not, and have NEVER claimed otherwise.

It has also never been supported by AVN. [/b][/quote]
AVNonline is not in support of this?

[Aly_AVN]

Originally posted by gonzo+Jun 2 2005, 11:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gonzo @ Jun 2 2005, 11:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Aly_AVN@Jun 2 2005, 02:17 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-gonzo@Jun 1 2005, 10:14 PM
Aly I sure hope like hell they are paying you enough. Heat for Internext and now this bag of shit. Since you posted it...care to comment on how you think this is a good thing?
I do not, and have NEVER claimed otherwise.

It has also never been supported by AVN.
AVNonline is not in support of this? [/b][/quote]
No.

[Trev]

Originally posted by Aly_AVN+Jun 2 2005, 09:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Aly_AVN @ Jun 2 2005, 09:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by gonzo@Jun 2 2005, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by Aly_AVN@Jun 2 2005, 02:17 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-gonzo@Jun 1 2005, 10:14 PM
Aly I sure hope like hell they are paying you enough. Heat for Internext and now this bag of shit. Since you posted it...care to comment on how you think this is a good thing?
I do not, and have NEVER claimed otherwise.

It has also never been supported by AVN.
AVNonline is not in support of this?
No. [/b][/quote]
What are your personal views on this, if you have any...

[gonzo]

So far it looks like Larry Walters and some other unnamed group thats a spokes person for this industry things its a good thing.

I cant tell if Helmy and his anti-CP group are for or against this as well. They only grace the Zoo with showing up.

[DrGuile]

It is my understanding that ASACP will get 10$ of every registration, and that this will go to an effort to make the use of .xxx domains mandatory for adult companies.

I might be mistaken... someone please tell me Im wrong.

and then tell me that ASACP is owned(operated?) by Helmy... ?

[Newton]

Originally posted by DrGuile@Jun 2 2005, 12:17 PM
It is my understanding that ASACP will get 10$ of every registration, and that this will go to an effort to make the use of .xxx domains mandatory for adult companies.

I might be mistaken... someone please tell me Im wrong.

and then tell me that ASACP is owned(operated?) by Helmy... ?
fuck .. i offered them incestry.com for FREE to keep it out of the public domain, and in their hands to protect its use. They never even bothered to reply so now it drops ..

[gonzo]

I like to report too. So heres a little information where my down south buddy Mike South says his piece back to AVN.....

******
Paul Fishbein Writes:

AVN President Paul Fishbein posts:

For those who trash us on the boards and speak without any knowledge of what's really going on (yes Mike South, you), here's the story. In the early days, at the encouragement of a couple of our biggest clients, we had meetings with Jason Hendeles concerning AVN's potential involvement with the .XXX business. We viewed it as a business opportunity. We sought the advice of many in the adult business, some of whom felt that the .XXX domains would "ghettoize" the adult business, while others felt there was a real opportunity.

However, we never made a deal with Jason and to date have no involvement in .XXX.

That last sentence speaks volumes, the truth is you SHOULD have had involvement and you should have seen it for the bad move that it is. Instead you chose to stick your head in the sand and sell us out by not doing anything. or did you do something?

Mike South Sez....
From My Site: 07/27/2004 For all of you asking why .XXX is a bad idea...READ THIS:

.XXX Still Not Dead, And AVNOnline is Helping to Pimp It:

The key word here being pimp of course.

lets look at whose who in this battle:

First you Have ICMRegistry and their little used car salesman Jason Hendales, Jason's job is to garner support for the .XXX domain for ICMRegistry so that they can try to ramrod it through ICANN. The proposed price tag for .XXX domains 75.00/yr.

Second, You have knowledgeable adult webmasters, attorneys and lobbyists like myself, Jeffrey Douglas, J.D. Obenberger and Bill Lyon who are against this, for reasons I will spell out in a bit.

Third You have parties in the biz, who, out of ignorance or alterior motive or both would support this under the guise of....you guessed it....keeping the children safe. These include LFP, Vivid, AVN and some of the board of the Free Speech Cabal. Though AVN has been passive in it's support, it's editorials speak for themselves.

Take the recent issue of AVNOnline where they lay out the story noting that the Free Speech Coalition held a special meeting to discuss and vote on this. AVN reported that the members in attendance voted it in BUT the big bad wolf (Then Director of the FSC) Bill Lyon vetoed the vote and called on the board of directors to decide the issue. Now here is the FACT that changes the whole story that AVN conveniently left out.

The night of the vote ICMRegistry brought in a bunch of "Ringers", they paid the dues for them to join the FSC so that they could vote in favor of .XXX, thus guaranteeing that the measure would pass. Bill Lyon saw through this ruse and did the right thing.

They also conveniently left out the fact that the FSC had been BRIBED to pass the measure....reportedly to the tune of 8.00 per domain sold. That's a hefty chunk of change and was certainly enough to buy the votes of some of the FSC Board members with less integrity than Lyon. Lawrence Walters and Greg Picconelli were salivating at the idea too because passage is job security for them as you will soon see.

So when you come right down to it, it's all about the money. ICM Registry will make millions off of this and thus will go to great lengths to sell it, even if it means selling us out.

Now some of you might be thinking that this aint such a bad idea, you are wrong, here's why:

It doesn't "protect the children", kids dont get porn from responsible adult sites, they get it off of kazaa, bearshare, limewire, morpheus, IRC and others.

It does "Zone" adult into a cyber ghetto, they say that we won't be required to use it but ask yourself this: Does your state have seatbelt laws? Remember how they sold that? They said Oh we won't just pull you over and give you a ticket for not wearing it, we just want to enact it to protect you and your children, now "Click It Or Ticket Campaigns are rampant right? Just how long do you think it would take Ashcroft or someone of similar narrow mindedness to pass legislation "protecting the children" by forcing adult sites to use .XXX. Picconelli and Walters say no way they can't do that but I guarantee you these two hot shots aren't going to represent you for free to prove it. For them .XXX is money in the bank, fuck what's good for the industry.

How long would it take your city or state to demand that ISPs "filter out" the .XXX domain or lose permission to provide service to you? Specially if you live in, say Utah?

Starting to see the problems now? Ya I thought you might.

You see its all about the money, ICM Registry, Picconelli, Walters...these people could give a fuck because they are going to make money, even if only because adult webmasters will buy the .XXX domains to protect them from cybersquatting, at least that's what they are counting on.

Next time you hear AVN wanting to speak for the adult webmaster community, remember this people. You gonna be at Internext? Tell them to stop trying to sell you to the highest bidder.

That's the way I see it.

[Aly_AVN]

Originally posted by gonzo@Jun 2 2005, 12:29 PM
I like to report too. So heres a little information where my down south buddy Mike South says his piece back to AVN.....


To which I responded:

What on earth makes you think that AVN has the power (or inclination) to "sell" webmasters to the highest bidder?! AVN produces adult industry publications and events. It is not some higher power, and it is not a political lobbying organization like the FSC.

The fact that AVN didn't take a stand on one side of the issue or the other is, in my opinion, more testament to the organization's integrity than NOT (They COULD have made money but chose not to). I'm not saying I disagree with your stand on this but at that time, and still today, our industry was and is divided on .xxx . In my opinion, AVN has a responsibility to write the news, not create it. Any power it has can and is used to actively support organizations like the FSC. However you ascribe far more direct political power and responsibility to AVN than is warranted.

[Aly_AVN]

Originally posted by Trev@Jun 2 2005, 12:08 PM

What are your personal views on this, if you have any...
Understand that this is just MY opinion and I'm just a simple girl from Scotland who may be missing something obvious...
Given the current political witchhunt against the adult industry and, by my perception, a 'moral' veer to the right internationally, creating our very own ghetto is a very dangerous thing to do. In an ideal world this could be a 'cute' idea. 'Your one-stop-shop for GIRLS GIRLS GIRLS!' But we don't exist in that world, we exist in a country (those in the USA) that is far from democratic, that has exactly the type of government the Constitution was created to protect Americans from. So this is very dangerous, IMO.

That said, I don't think the sky is falling... Somehow, I don't think this'll do us all in.

[Trev]

Originally posted by Aly_AVN+Jun 2 2005, 09:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Aly_AVN @ Jun 2 2005, 09:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Trev@Jun 2 2005, 12:08 PM

What are your personal views on this, if you have any...
Understand that this is just MY opinion and I'm just a simple girl from Scotland who may be missing something obvious...
Given the current political witchhunt against the adult industry and, by my perception, a 'moral' veer to the right internationally, creating our very own ghetto is a very dangerous thing to do. In an ideal world this could be a 'cute' idea. 'Your one-stop-shop for GIRLS GIRLS GIRLS!' But we don't exist in that world, we exist in a country (those in the USA) that is far from democratic, that has exactly the type of government the Constitution was created to protect Americans from. So this is very dangerous, IMO.

That said, I don't think the sky is falling... Somehow, I don't think this'll do us all in. [/b][/quote]
It appears we have a very similar view on this. I won't be buying into the .xxx scene but I know a lot of webmasters will. So the money will be made and the targets will be painted… whether it will be the .xxx targets or .com targets is yet to unfold.

[SykkBoy]

I would like to know who is all behind this too as I will not be doing any more business with them...fuck them and let them sell everyone else down the river...fuck them and fuck them good...

*If* AVN is behind it, I'll never attend another InterNext again...yeah, I know, they won't miss one little webmaster, but I'll also go out of my way to let everyone else know who is behind this and urge them to boycott ALL of those involved...

[Mike AI]

Looks to me like the same people who negotiated patent agreements with our favorite company.

There is definately a pattern here.

I am not saying if it is good or bad, it is just business. If people can make a buck selling others out, they will do it. Life has always been that way.

There are no friends in business, only interests.

As deepthroat once said... "follow the money"

[Aly_AVN]

Originally posted by SykkBoy@Jun 2 2005, 12:52 PM
I would like to know who is all behind this too as I will not be doing any more business with them...fuck them and let them sell everyone else down the river...fuck them and fuck them good...

*If* AVN is behind it, I'll never attend another InterNext again...yeah, I know, they won't miss one little webmaster, but I'll also go out of my way to let everyone else know who is behind this and urge them to boycott ALL of those involved...
If AVN were behind this I be demanding a very hefty raise right now! LOL...

Not true though... See you at Internext! B)

[Aly_AVN]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jun 2 2005, 01:01 PM
Looks to me like the same people who negotiated patent agreements with our favorite company.

There is definately a pattern here.

I am not saying if it is good or bad, it is just business. If people can make a buck selling others out, they will do it. Life has always been that way.

There are no friends in business, only interests.

As deepthroat once said... "follow the money"
Well put. :okthumb:

[nlphoto]

what was old is new again... hey Jim, do you and Vickie remember this identical discussion on the YNot board back in 98 ???

domain.xxx .sex .whatever = virtual ghettoization of adult, and far too easy to block. was bad idea then and is just as bad now... do you really think that it would take much for VISA/MC to institute a "move to .xxx or lose your processing" policy ?

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jun 2 2005, 04:01 PM
Looks to me like the same people who negotiated patent agreements with our favorite company.

There is definately a pattern here.

I am not saying if it is good or bad, it is just business. If people can make a buck selling others out, they will do it. Life has always been that way.

There are no friends in business, only interests.

As deepthroat once said... "follow the money"
yup, figures...they see shrinking margins in adult and figure they'll take all they can as everyone else goes down....but sadly, few in this industry will give a fuck..they'll kiss ass on these people and still send traffic to them because they have a picture of a nice car on their website...

[Nickatilynx]

Sorry guys , but to be absolutely honest here...

Lets say it is Cybererotica is behind all this , and they are gonna make huge money from it and everyone else is gonna get fucked in the ass.

They aren't doing anything illegal or anything else.

Well since when do they have to run there business affairs to best serve you bunch of wankers?

I run a business to make ME money , I'm not an industry leader ,a spokesman for the "adult Industry" or anything else. I am a businessman. LOL

If I could make $50 million legitmately in thise business , but by doing it every person that posted on this board became unemployed I wouldn't give a monkeys toss frankly. :)

I'd employ some of you to come along for the ride though. You always need someone to help you pick the colour of your next Bentley.

:)

[DrGuile]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jun 2 2005, 04:36 PM
I'd employ some of you to come along for the ride though. You always need someone to help you pick the colour of your next Bentley.

:)
Might even give us some housing...

http://lincoln.lib.niu.edu/fimage/lincolnimages/fof-2.21.jpg

[Aly_AVN]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jun 2 2005, 01:36 PM

I'd employ some of you to come along for the ride though. You always need someone to help you pick the colour of your next Bentley.

:)
ooh... I'll send you my CV, I'm fabulous with colour! :awinky:

[*KK*]

Originally posted by gonzo@Jun 2 2005, 08:28 AM

What are you calling gangrene?
Well, now that you ask, I'd actually like to revise my statement. This industry is gangrene. If the pedicure makes the nails look nice, well, the last time I heard the nails don't gangrene.

I agree with Nick, those that are in the .xxx for profit aren't breaking any laws. Any webmasters dumb enough to buy into the TLD aren't breaking any intelligence barriers either though.

[Trev]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jun 2 2005, 10:36 PM
Sorry guys , but to be absolutely honest here...

Lets say it is Cybererotica is behind all this , and they are gonna make huge money from it and everyone else is gonna get fucked in the ass.

They aren't doing anything illegal or anything else.

Well since when do they have to run there business affairs to best serve you bunch of wankers?

I run a business to make ME money , I'm not an industry leader ,a spokesman for the "adult Industry" or anything else. I am a businessman. LOL

If I could make $50 million legitmately in thise business , but by doing it every person that posted on this board became unemployed I wouldn't give a monkeys toss frankly. :)

I'd employ some of you to come along for the ride though. You always need someone to help you pick the colour of your next Bentley.

:)
:wnw:

If I had the money, pull and power to do it all legally I'd shoot a load in every ones eye if it made me $50mil.

[Newton]

red is next years black :okthumb:
http://www.xxxamigoz.com/pop.gif

[gonzo]

Originally posted by *KK*@Jun 2 2005, 05:00 PM

I agree with Nick, those that are in the .xxx for profit aren't breaking any laws. Any webmasters dumb enough to buy into the TLD aren't breaking any intelligence barriers either though.
True statements!

[Mike AI]

Of course anyone would do what they did. It is a smart business decission to own any TLD.

We will make money off of it somehow.... :o

[Trev]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jun 2 2005, 11:30 PM
Of course anyone would do what they did. It is a smart business decission to own any TLD.

We will make money off of it somehow.... :o
'We' as in Directnic or 'we' as in MikeAI?

[SykkBoy]

I'm not denying the business aspect of it...I'm just sick of these guys selling everyone else down the river and claiming to be industry leaders and other such horseshit...the only thing they lead this industry in is fucking everyone else...

[Trev]

Originally posted by SykkBoy@Jun 2 2005, 11:35 PM
I'm not denying the business aspect of it...I'm just sick of these guys selling everyone else down the river and claiming to be industry leaders and other such horseshit...the only thing they lead this industry in is fucking everyone else...
:okthumb:


BUT I bet if me and you could come up with the next "thing" to fuck everyone "legally" for 50mil you wouldn't say no :yowsa:

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by Trev+Jun 2 2005, 05:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Trev @ Jun 2 2005, 05:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-SykkBoy@Jun 2 2005, 11:35 PM
I'm not denying the business aspect of it...I'm just sick of these guys selling everyone else down the river and claiming to be industry leaders and other such horseshit...the only thing they lead this industry in is fucking everyone else...
:okthumb:


BUT I bet if me and you could come up with the next "thing" to fuck everyone "legally" for 50mil you wouldn't say no :yowsa: [/b][/quote]
perhaps, but I wouldn't be out acting like I represent the industry or am some type of industry leader ;-)

[Trev]

I still want to hear if MikeAI's version of "we" is the "royal we"....

[Trev]

Originally posted by SykkBoy+Jun 2 2005, 11:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SykkBoy @ Jun 2 2005, 11:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Trev@Jun 2 2005, 05:38 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-SykkBoy@Jun 2 2005, 11:35 PM
I'm not denying the business aspect of it...I'm just sick of these guys selling everyone else down the river and claiming to be industry leaders and other such horseshit...the only thing they lead this industry in is fucking everyone else...
:okthumb:


BUT I bet if me and you could come up with the next "thing" to fuck everyone "legally" for 50mil you wouldn't say no :yowsa:
perhaps, but I wouldn't be out acting like I represent the industry or am some type of industry leader ;-) [/b][/quote]
So what role would you like to act in? because to pull big shit off takes big time experience in acting...

[gonzo]

Originally posted by Trev@Jun 2 2005, 05:56 PM
I still want to hear if MikeAI's version of "we" is the "royal we"....
The correct term is ..."Porn Royalty" [self annointed] Also referred to as "West Coast Weenies". They all are "friends 4 life" until one of em gets greedy and punks them out. [See The Zoo] But other than hot air and a lot of hype/drama they bring nothing to the table. Youve seen them in the early years working for Levi, selling dick pills and now blowing out content.

A true "Porn Royal" will give the other ones... the "homie hook up". You know... you discover a company looking to break into online adult so they are looking to hire a "celebrity webmaster" [Always works for someone else usually for no longer than 3 months and never has anything of their own] and has some deep pockets.

So you give em the "homie hookup" - that is stand as a reference even though the company doesnt know either of you cant produce shit. Bleed em dry with your contacts [usually flashy non caucasion rappers who have nothing to do with the business] that produce little to nothing, convince them to sponsor or co-sponsor an event in Vegas or Florida so that you/PR can line up your next job while on someone elses payroll.


Mike AI once told me they had another word for this person..."employee".

**special thanks to Kath Blackwell, Serge and Mike AI for making these terms popular.

[Trev]

Originally posted by gonzo+Jun 3 2005, 12:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gonzo @ Jun 3 2005, 12:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Trev@Jun 2 2005, 05:56 PM
I still want to hear if MikeAI's version of "we" is the "royal we"....
The correct term is ..."Porn Royalty" [self annointed] Also referred to as "West Coast Weenies". They all are "friends 4 life" until one of em gets greedy and punks them out. [See The Zoo] But other than hot air and a lot of hype/drama they bring nothing to the table. Youve seen them in the early years working for Levi, selling dick pills and now blowing out content.

A true "Porn Royal" will give the other ones... the "homie hook up". You know... you discover a company looking to break into online adult so they are looking to hire a "celebrity webmaster" [Always works for someone else usually for no longer than 3 months and never has anything of their own] and has some deep pockets.

So you give em the "homie hookup" - that is stand as a reference even though the company doesnt know either of you cant produce shit. Bleed em dry with your contacts [usually flashy non caucasion rappers who have nothing to do with the business] that produce little to nothing, convince them to sponsor or co-sponsor an event in Vegas or Florida so that you/PR can line up your next job while on someone elses payroll.


Mike AI once told me they had another word for this person..."employee".

**special thanks to Kath Blackwell, Serge and Mike AI for making these terms popular. [/b][/quote]
I've bolded my quote!

[grimm]

Originally posted by Rolo@Jun 2 2005, 08:42 AM
Here is one more supporter, beside helmy/gigacash/asacp:


[stld-rfp-xxx] A Responsible First Step for the Adult Industry
To: <stld-rfp-xxx@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [stld-rfp-xxx] A Responsible First Step for the Adult Industry
From: "Lawrence G. Walters" <larry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:12:42 -0500
Importance: Normal
Organization: Weston, Garrou & DeWitt
Sender: owner-stld-rfp-xxx@xxxxxxxxx

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For the good of the adult Internet industry, this proposal should be approved. Having provided legal representation to the adult webmaster community since 1995, along with other facets of the adult industry for years before, I’ve seen many unsuccessful attempts to organize and speak with a united voice. Organizing in the adult Internet industry is essential; just as it is with any other highly-regulated industry. My law firm has represented the adult industry for over 40 years, and has been involved in many organizing efforts. It may be that the only way for this particular facet of the industry to organize is through a non-profit foundation structured to support both the online adult community and the broader Internet community funded through .xxx registration revenue. A .xxx domain name option will eventually become a reality, and the current proposal will result in significant benefit to the industry as a whole, given the significant funding that IFFOR could potentially secure for the purposes of lobbying, legal defense, and media outreach.

When compared to a generic TLD proposal, the current Sponsored TLD proposal is definitely preferable. In light of the current political climate in the United States and elsewhere, IFFOR could become a critical voice for the continued viability and success of the adult website industry. Regardless of one’s feelings concerning the esoteric advisability of a voluntary .xxx domain name registration option, the practical realities must be addressed. Some entity will ultimately convince ICANN to approve a TLD for the adult industry. The current proposal by ICM Registries, Inc., sponsored by IFFOR, will bestow benefits on the industry which far outweigh any of the potential concerns advanced to date. The webmaster community should get behind this proposal which will give something back, instead of waiting for another group to submit a generic TLD proposal based purely on profit motive.

http://forum.icann.org/lists/stld-rfp-xxx/msg00003.html

http://www.lawrencewalters.com/images/mainimage_home.jpg
http://www.lawrencewalters.com/
what is this man looking at?

[*KK*]

Originally posted by grimm@Jun 2 2005, 04:55 PM

what is this man looking at?
Well, your ass is cute.

[grimm]

Originally posted by Trev+Jun 2 2005, 02:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Trev @ Jun 2 2005, 02:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mike AI@Jun 2 2005, 11:30 PM
Of course anyone would do what they did. It is a smart business decission to own any TLD.

We will make money off of it somehow.... :o
'We' as in Directnic or 'we' as in MikeAI? [/b][/quote]
we as in anyone with business sense. a new .tld opens up a ton of opportunity. .com will always be there. just because .xxx will be available doesnt herd anyone into a cage. dont go chicken little, its really no big deal. people are making a large amount of assumptions of possibilities down the line. any possibility you think, there are hundreds of others. hysteria wont get you anywhere.

[grimm]

Originally posted by *KK*+Jun 2 2005, 05:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (*KK* @ Jun 2 2005, 05:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-grimm@Jun 2 2005, 04:55 PM

what is this man looking at?
Well, your ass is cute. [/b][/quote]
indeed;) You cant blame him, really:)

[*KK*]

Originally posted by grimm+Jun 2 2005, 05:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (grimm @ Jun 2 2005, 05:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by *KK*@Jun 2 2005, 05:00 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-grimm@Jun 2 2005, 04:55 PM

what is this man looking at?
Well, your ass is cute.
indeed;) You cant blame him, really:) [/b][/quote]
Oh I should be the last one apportioning any blame at this point in life. :)

[grimm]

Originally posted by *KK*+Jun 2 2005, 05:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (*KK* @ Jun 2 2005, 05:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by grimm@Jun 2 2005, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by *KK*@Jun 2 2005, 05:00 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-grimm@Jun 2 2005, 04:55 PM

what is this man looking at?
Well, your ass is cute.
indeed;) You cant blame him, really:)
Oh I should be the last one apportioning any blame at this point in life. :) [/b][/quote]
heh you'd have to wrestle that last place in line from me:)

[gigi]

Originally posted by grimm+Jun 2 2005, 05:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (grimm @ Jun 2 2005, 05:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Trev@Jun 2 2005, 02:32 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Mike AI@Jun 2 2005, 11:30 PM
Of course anyone would do what they did. It is a smart business decission to own any TLD.

We will make money off of it somehow.... :o
'We' as in Directnic or 'we' as in MikeAI?
we as in anyone with business sense. a new .tld opens up a ton of opportunity. .com will always be there. just because .xxx will be available doesnt herd anyone into a cage. dont go chicken little, its really no big deal. people are making a large amount of assumptions of possibilities down the line. any possibility you think, there are hundreds of others. hysteria wont get you anywhere. [/b][/quote]
THANK you! I was starting to get really depressed reading this thread.... :P

This is the only thing I question:

WHAT WILL BE THE OBLIGATIONS OF .XXX TLD REGISTRANTS?
Participating Internet content and service providers believe that responsible self-regulation is essential to the industry’s continuing viability in the global marketplace. Internet content and service providers that voluntarily register the domain names will adhere to a high-level set of business practices, embodied in an enforceable contract between the Registrant and ICM Registry. The credibility of such practices cannot be preserved by the one time creation of a set of responsible business practices: iFOR must establish, revise and continually update these practices to accommodate developments in technologies and societal expectations.

How will they decide on this 'high-level set of business practices, embodied in an enforceable contract between the Registrant and ICM Registry? What will it entail?

Does this mean they can dictate what type of content goes onto these domains? Will they be able to dictate how I run by business? Is this 'high level' of set business practices any different than the contracts used for other TLDs? Inquiring minds want to know....

The premise that the formation of this TLD is rooted in issues concerning CP is laughable....and brilliant....

[Trev]

Originally posted by grimm+Jun 3 2005, 02:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (grimm @ Jun 3 2005, 02:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Trev@Jun 2 2005, 02:32 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Mike AI@Jun 2 2005, 11:30 PM
Of course anyone would do what they did. It is a smart business decission to own any TLD.

We will make money off of it somehow.... :o
'We' as in Directnic or 'we' as in MikeAI?
we as in anyone with business sense. a new .tld opens up a ton of opportunity. .com will always be there. just because .xxx will be available doesnt herd anyone into a cage. dont go chicken little, its really no big deal. people are making a large amount of assumptions of possibilities down the line. any possibility you think, there are hundreds of others. hysteria wont get you anywhere. [/b][/quote]
I don’t buy into hysteria; it’s so over rated.

As for .xxx tld making a ton of money for anyone with business sense (by which I’m assuming your saying I’ve none) I’d rather take my $75 buy 7 or 8 .com's and run them the way I want and not according to some cocksuckers rules.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Timon+Jun 2 2005, 11:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Timon @ Jun 2 2005, 11:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Almighty Colin@Jun 2 2005, 10:39 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Timon@Jun 2 2005, 09:20 AM
I call XXX.XXX

Nobody else register it, it's mine!!!!
amsterdamnxxx.xxx
oh I call amsterdamncumbath.xxx too :lol: [/b][/quote]
yeah, that one ;-)

[grimm]

Originally posted by gigi+Jun 2 2005, 09:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gigi @ Jun 2 2005, 09:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by grimm@Jun 2 2005, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by Trev@Jun 2 2005, 02:32 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Mike AI@Jun 2 2005, 11:30 PM
Of course anyone would do what they did. It is a smart business decission to own any TLD.

We will make money off of it somehow.... :o
'We' as in Directnic or 'we' as in MikeAI?
we as in anyone with business sense. a new .tld opens up a ton of opportunity. .com will always be there. just because .xxx will be available doesnt herd anyone into a cage. dont go chicken little, its really no big deal. people are making a large amount of assumptions of possibilities down the line. any possibility you think, there are hundreds of others. hysteria wont get you anywhere.
THANK you! I was starting to get really depressed reading this thread.... :P

This is the only thing I question:

WHAT WILL BE THE OBLIGATIONS OF .XXX TLD REGISTRANTS?
Participating Internet content and service providers believe that responsible self-regulation is essential to the industry’s continuing viability in the global marketplace. Internet content and service providers that voluntarily register the domain names will adhere to a high-level set of business practices, embodied in an enforceable contract between the Registrant and ICM Registry. The credibility of such practices cannot be preserved by the one time creation of a set of responsible business practices: iFOR must establish, revise and continually update these practices to accommodate developments in technologies and societal expectations.

How will they decide on this 'high-level set of business practices, embodied in an enforceable contract between the Registrant and ICM Registry? What will it entail?

Does this mean they can dictate what type of content goes onto these domains? Will they be able to dictate how I run by business? Is this 'high level' of set business practices any different than the contracts used for other TLDs? Inquiring minds want to know....

The premise that the formation of this TLD is rooted in issues concerning CP is laughable....and brilliant.... [/b][/quote]
in other words, it will be up to the discretion of ICM to act as a clearing house for the .xxx TLD. more than likely it will be in their judgement to allow resellers based on content and regulation, a smokescreen of horseshit meaning politics, between ICM, its backers and its resellers. Any thoughts of a registrar doing anything for the betterment of the safety of its surfers is ridiculous, the backers of this company are going to want profits, and to get profits they are going to have to sell domains, and they arent going to sell a whole lot of them to adult webmasters, other than speculators, because of the paranoid attitude in the industry. so the rules will be bent to the point of breaking, finding a comfot level between ICM, the backers, the resellers and whatever politics suits the day. case closed. :)

pay attention to the money, it tells the whole story, start to finish

[grimm]

Originally posted by Trev+Jun 2 2005, 11:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Trev @ Jun 2 2005, 11:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by grimm@Jun 3 2005, 02:01 AM
Originally posted by Trev@Jun 2 2005, 02:32 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Mike AI@Jun 2 2005, 11:30 PM
Of course anyone would do what they did. It is a smart business decission to own any TLD.

We will make money off of it somehow.... :o
'We' as in Directnic or 'we' as in MikeAI?
we as in anyone with business sense. a new .tld opens up a ton of opportunity. .com will always be there. just because .xxx will be available doesnt herd anyone into a cage. dont go chicken little, its really no big deal. people are making a large amount of assumptions of possibilities down the line. any possibility you think, there are hundreds of others. hysteria wont get you anywhere.
I don’t buy into hysteria; it’s so over rated.

As for .xxx tld making a ton of money for anyone with business sense (by which I’m assuming your saying I’ve none) I’d rather take my $75 buy 7 or 8 .com's and run them the way I want and not according to some cocksuckers rules. [/b][/quote]
i didnt say .xxx domain holders would make money in conventional ways. paranoia over regulation will curb some of it, but at the end of the day they will sell a bunch of domains, and people will build sites on them, if for nothing else than the availability of good one or two word domains. also having an effect is the spidering of the SE's


anyone seen yahoos new project?

mindset.research.yahoo.com

the way of the search going to engines like that should spook webmasters more than a simple new .tld, for sure. one click, and all commercial searches are filtered out.

[grimm]

Originally posted by gigi+Jun 2 2005, 09:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gigi @ Jun 2 2005, 09:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by grimm@Jun 2 2005, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by Trev@Jun 2 2005, 02:32 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Mike AI@Jun 2 2005, 11:30 PM
Of course anyone would do what they did. It is a smart business decission to own any TLD.

We will make money off of it somehow.... :o
'We' as in Directnic or 'we' as in MikeAI?
we as in anyone with business sense. a new .tld opens up a ton of opportunity. .com will always be there. just because .xxx will be available doesnt herd anyone into a cage. dont go chicken little, its really no big deal. people are making a large amount of assumptions of possibilities down the line. any possibility you think, there are hundreds of others. hysteria wont get you anywhere.
THANK you! I was starting to get really depressed reading this thread.... :P

This is the only thing I question:

WHAT WILL BE THE OBLIGATIONS OF .XXX TLD REGISTRANTS?
Participating Internet content and service providers believe that responsible self-regulation is essential to the industry’s continuing viability in the global marketplace. Internet content and service providers that voluntarily register the domain names will adhere to a high-level set of business practices, embodied in an enforceable contract between the Registrant and ICM Registry. The credibility of such practices cannot be preserved by the one time creation of a set of responsible business practices: iFOR must establish, revise and continually update these practices to accommodate developments in technologies and societal expectations.

How will they decide on this 'high-level set of business practices, embodied in an enforceable contract between the Registrant and ICM Registry? What will it entail?

Does this mean they can dictate what type of content goes onto these domains? Will they be able to dictate how I run by business? Is this 'high level' of set business practices any different than the contracts used for other TLDs? Inquiring minds want to know....

The premise that the formation of this TLD is rooted in issues concerning CP is laughable....and brilliant.... [/b][/quote]
as for the last part, the CP end of it seems to be blaring from an adult mouthpiece and not a political one. who would have what to gain from that argument? obviously a backer involved in the industry. it takes a certain amount of understanding to market a project in such a way, and politicians have shown ineptitude when it comes to understanding domain and traffic markets, so i doubt it comes from an authority on high. like you said, good marketing.

[Rolo]

I do not care if they make 50 million or more from the .xxx TLD, what I do not like is the wimpy little wankers that use this as a way to speak on behalf of the adult industry. Yeah - I know that there is no official voice in the industry, so its easy for someone to step up on the soapbox, and speak for all of us :barfon: but fuck do it with a bit more of class, instead of working it like a toothless 1 dollar crack whore.


“As a voluntary TLD we offer the industry to chance to regularize their business procedures and become a much more legitimized industry as a result of this,” Hendeles said. “A lot of people are going to jump on it and we’re not forcing anyone to give up their .coms, but those people that are in the .xxx space are all indicating their agreement to act responsibly"

In other words - .xxx are the good guys - .com are the bad guys... well, atleast .com domain holders didn´t have to bribe some icann board members to get their domains, and atleast we are not looking at letting the FTC, Religious/Political groups etc. fuck us in the ass, so we can be their bitch (have the .com people ever talked about working with the FTC to rid the internet of adult content?).

And how many GREAT .com adult domains are there today? 10.000? 20.000? 50.000? How many .xxx domains do you think these sellouts have reserved to themself? 10.000? 20.000? 50.000? ICANN made a major mistake, and I hope they will wake up, and see what mess they have created.

[*KK*]

Originally posted by grimm+Jun 2 2005, 05:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (grimm @ Jun 2 2005, 05:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by *KK*@Jun 2 2005, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by grimm@Jun 2 2005, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by *KK*@Jun 2 2005, 05:00 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-grimm@Jun 2 2005, 04:55 PM

what is this man looking at?
Well, your ass is cute.
indeed;) You cant blame him, really:)
Oh I should be the last one apportioning any blame at this point in life. :)
heh you'd have to wrestle that last place in line from me:) [/b][/quote]
I think I could take you ;)

[grimm]

Originally posted by *KK*+Jun 3 2005, 11:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (*KK* @ Jun 3 2005, 11:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by grimm@Jun 2 2005, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by *KK*@Jun 2 2005, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by grimm@Jun 2 2005, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by *KK*@Jun 2 2005, 05:00 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-grimm@Jun 2 2005, 04:55 PM

what is this man looking at?
Well, your ass is cute.
indeed;) You cant blame him, really:)
Oh I should be the last one apportioning any blame at this point in life. :)
heh you'd have to wrestle that last place in line from me:)
I think I could take you ;) [/b][/quote]
Ive been drinking milk! :)

[*KK*]

Originally posted by grimm+Jun 3 2005, 12:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (grimm @ Jun 3 2005, 12:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by *KK*@Jun 3 2005, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by grimm@Jun 2 2005, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by *KK*@Jun 2 2005, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by grimm@Jun 2 2005, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by *KK*@Jun 2 2005, 05:00 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-grimm@Jun 2 2005, 04:55 PM

what is this man looking at?
Well, your ass is cute.
indeed;) You cant blame him, really:)
Oh I should be the last one apportioning any blame at this point in life. :)
heh you'd have to wrestle that last place in line from me:)
I think I could take you ;)
Ive been drinking milk! :) [/b][/quote]
With your Wheaties I hope ;)

[grimm]

Originally posted by *KK*+Jun 3 2005, 12:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (*KK* @ Jun 3 2005, 12:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by grimm@Jun 3 2005, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by *KK*@Jun 3 2005, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by grimm@Jun 2 2005, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by *KK*@Jun 2 2005, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by grimm@Jun 2 2005, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by *KK*@Jun 2 2005, 05:00 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-grimm@Jun 2 2005, 04:55 PM

what is this man looking at?
Well, your ass is cute.
indeed;) You cant blame him, really:)
Oh I should be the last one apportioning any blame at this point in life. :)
heh you'd have to wrestle that last place in line from me:)
I think I could take you ;)
Ive been drinking milk! :)
With your Wheaties I hope ;) [/b][/quote]
of course, two bowls a day!

[*KK*]

Originally posted by grimm+Jun 3 2005, 01:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (grimm @ Jun 3 2005, 01:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by *KK*@Jun 3 2005, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by grimm@Jun 3 2005, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by *KK*@Jun 3 2005, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by grimm@Jun 2 2005, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by *KK*@Jun 2 2005, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by grimm@Jun 2 2005, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by *KK*@Jun 2 2005, 05:00 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-grimm@Jun 2 2005, 04:55 PM

what is this man looking at?
Well, your ass is cute.
indeed;) You cant blame him, really:)
Oh I should be the last one apportioning any blame at this point in life. :)
heh you'd have to wrestle that last place in line from me:)
I think I could take you ;)
Ive been drinking milk! :)
With your Wheaties I hope ;)
of course, two bowls a day! [/b][/quote]
You should be quite regular in the fiber department then ;)

[Trev]

You guys could try dating in the real world :tpe:

[grimm]

Originally posted by *KK*+Jun 3 2005, 01:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (*KK* @ Jun 3 2005, 01:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by grimm@Jun 3 2005, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by *KK*@Jun 3 2005, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by grimm@Jun 3 2005, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by *KK*@Jun 3 2005, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by grimm@Jun 2 2005, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by *KK*@Jun 2 2005, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by grimm@Jun 2 2005, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by *KK*@Jun 2 2005, 05:00 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-grimm@Jun 2 2005, 04:55 PM

what is this man looking at?
Well, your ass is cute.
indeed;) You cant blame him, really:)
Oh I should be the last one apportioning any blame at this point in life. :)
heh you'd have to wrestle that last place in line from me:)
I think I could take you ;)
Ive been drinking milk! :)
With your Wheaties I hope ;)
of course, two bowls a day!
You should be quite regular in the fiber department then ;) [/b][/quote]
no worries on the southern front:)