Good by EU, we hardly knew you.

[Mike AI]

This probably huts the US somewhat - but I know it hurts Chirac, and that makes me very happy.

It's ironic the French will run him out of town for this EU debacle, yet his scummy personal relationship with Saddam, and the numerous other scandels ( bribes, etc...) never hurt him at all.

Where is Aeon?? I hope you are going to lecture the evil French on the nasty concepts of Nationalism!!! :lol: :lol: European unity has only been succesful when the US was pushing it. The EU was a natural extension of NATO/military co-operation - that the US ran.

[Timon]

It's not the end of the EU it's the savior of the EU.

Would you vote YES for a constitution that would pave the way for Mexico to become part of the USA and allow their citizens to compete for American jobs accepting a third of the salary?

[Rolo]

Crazy thing about the french people is that alot of them voted no, because the constitution/treaty was not socialist enough :unsure: You got to love their logic - vote no, and we can make the rest of the EU countries agree on even more social issues :blink: However the truth is that most of the northern european countries and GB do not want an EU which is about protecting some french farmers against the world. So if the french succeed in their quest to renegotiate the constitution/treaty, then that new "socialist" constitution/treaty will probably be rejected by even more people in europe. The EU is looking more and more like the Eurovision Song Contest - dozens of crappy songs, amature performers, and voting which is more about friendship between nations, then about choosing the "best" compromise.

I can´t wait until wednesday, when the Dutch people are also going to reject the constitution/treaty - that will be a knock out for alot of "super" europeans, who have their heads so much up in their own ass, that they can not see the real world around them... :agrin:

[Rolo]

Originally posted by Mike AI@May 29 2005, 10:26 PM
It's ironic the French will run him out of town for this EU debacle, yet his scummy personal relationship with Saddam, and the numerous other scandels ( bribes, etc...) never hurt him at all.
Its scary - the next President in France, could be a socialist, and if you didn´t like Chirac (he is centre-right in french politics) because of his foreign policy, then I´m almost 100% sure that you will also hate the next guy they got lined up :awinky:

[Trev]

I've been smiling ever since the results came in and I'll have an even bigger smile on Wednesday when the Dutch follow suit.

Good news indeed!

[el pres]

The EU has been good for spain, a stable currency and the government not being able to fuck with interest rates and keeping a 3% ceiling on gdp/debt has taken away the main problems Spain had in the past.

They've also received alot of $$ for infrastructure, which the country needed badly, the EU isnt all bad.

[Trev]

Originally posted by el pres@May 30 2005, 03:07 PM
The EU has been good for spain, a stable currency and the government not being able to fuck with interest rates and keeping a 3% ceiling on gdp/debt has taken away the main problems Spain had in the past.

They've also received alot of $$ for infrastructure, which the country needed badly, the EU isnt all bad.
For Spain it was a great thing indeed, I do feel that the UK doesn't need it however because we already have the things the EU helped Spain achieve.

[Rolo]

The EU has been and is good - however the problem is that the "EU project" is more a political goal, than a goal of the european people. Most people can not be bothered with visions that are 10-50 years in the future - their attention span is 1-5 years, and important subjects for normal people does not include regional stability, integration, and development, but jobs, self identity, and who will win the world cup :)

The EU will probably do as they did with Denmark, and later Ireland, when they voted no, and just come up with a new version of the same content, and make people vote again and again until they say "YES!"

[Trev]

Originally posted by Rolo@May 30 2005, 03:36 PM
who will win the world cup :)
:wnw:

I'll vote no if/when we have our referendum next year, and no any other time we have one... I live in Britain, so what if it's in Europe :)

[Rolo]

Originally posted by Trev@May 30 2005, 06:48 AM
I live in Britain, so what if it's in Europe :)
Does that mean we can expect Liverpool to return the Champions League trophy? :awinky:

[Trev]

Originally posted by Rolo+May 30 2005, 03:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rolo @ May 30 2005, 03:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Trev@May 30 2005, 06:48 AM
I live in Britain, so what if it's in Europe :)
Does that mean we can expect Liverpool to return the Champions League trophy? :awinky: [/b][/quote]
Hmmm... I don't really care... I support Sunderland and the only time they venture out into Europe is on holiday :lol:

[el pres]

Originally posted by Rolo@May 30 2005, 09:36 AM
The EU will probably do as they did with Denmark, and later Ireland, when they voted no, and just come up with a new version of the same content, and make people vote again and again until they say "YES!"
I can understand Denmark voting no, with the social welfare system they've got there.

But the Irish took the piss voting no, with the amout of $$ that was chucked into Ireland, and them becoming a huge euro base for the main computer companies because of Irelands tax policies within the EU, That was wrong.

[Mike AI]

Of coure the EU is not bad - it could and may still be a brilliant idea. I saw first hand the advances it brought to Spain.

Timon, I understand why the French rejected it - but it still does not prevent me from enjoying Chirac's failure...

[TheEnforcer]

I'm not familiar with all of the particualrs bt is there any way that the rest of the countries that vote yes can tell France and any other country that says no (assuming there is only one or two more at most out of the 25) to go fuck themselves and fend for themselves?

[DrGuile]

'Good by' EU?


good lord....

[Rolo]

Originally posted by TheEnforcer@May 30 2005, 08:10 AM
I'm not familiar with all of the particualrs bt is there any way that the rest of the countries that vote yes can tell France and any other country that says no (assuming there is only one or two more at most out of the 25) to go fuck themselves and fend for themselves?
This is what Giscard said about what would happen, if the french voted no:


Former French President Valery Giscard d'Estaing has strongly defended the EU constitution that he created.
Mr Giscard d'Estaing said it could not be renegotiated if the French rejected it in their referendum on 29 May.

He said the ratifications of the treaty across Europe, including the UK's own planned plebiscite, would continue, even in the face of a French No.

Opinion polls in France show the No vote slightly ahead, with just a week and a half to go.

'Bad timing'

Mr Giscard d'Estaing robustly defended his creation - the European constitutional treaty he spent several years negotiating.

He dismissed the idea of renegotiation, saying "it would be a useless and non-productive confrontation".

"There is no opening for that. What do you want to renegotiate? We had a long negotiation, then inter-governmental negotiation for one full year."

He said the No campaigners in France were attacking from the extremes of left and right.

But he insisted the treaty neither handed too much power to Brussels nor threatened the French social model. "The states remain, and we keep our citizenship."

The former French president admitted the referendum came at a bad time for France.

Unemployment is running at 10%, putting the French people into what he calls a negative mood.

As for Turkish membership of the union, an issue which has become entangled with the debate over the constitution in France, Mr D'Estaing said that although an important neighbour, Turkey could never become a member of the European political system.

"Turkey cannot be a member of the European political system. Why? It will be the most numerous... and poorest, so all the funds will go to Turkey."

Mr D'Estaing said he believed that in the end, the French would look to their consciences and vote Yes to the constitution - albeit by a narrow majority of around 52% or 53%.

With a Yes vote, he said, "people will be pleased, because they don't want to enter into an adventure... They have a sense of responsibility."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4560923.stm

So one of the main creators of the constitution says that it can not be renegotiated - so I guess that means it will fall, but we will probably need the dutch (and maybe the UK too) to put the final nails in the coffin... :unsure:

[TheEnforcer]

It will be interesting to see play out.

[JR]

Europe on the whole is pretty nationalistic in my opinion, which tends to cause a behavior that runs counter productive to the idea of the Belgium "super democracy". It will be interesting to see where they are in 10 years. 10 immature, quasi-criminal states wanting equal rights combined with the biggest economies in Europe thumbing their nose at budget/deficit rules etc etc etc.

[Trev]

Recent surveys predicted that if/when the UK gets its chance to vote that the “NO vote would take it with a 62% majority.

<steps on soapbox>

I personally believe my country should be run from London, our laws should be enacted in London and the Pound is King.

<steps off soapbox>


I’m a nationalist to the extreme.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by Trev@May 30 2005, 09:37 AM
Recent surveys predicted that if/when the UK gets its chance to vote that the “NO vote would take it with a 62% majority.

<steps on soapbox>

I personally believe my country should be run from London, our laws should be enacted in London and the Pound is King.

<steps off soapbox>


I’m a nationalist to the extreme.
I always agreed.

Build the ties back up with commonwealth countries and fuck the EU :)

[DrGuile]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@May 30 2005, 12:42 PM

Build the ties back up with commonwealth countries and fuck the EU :)
Thanks, but no thanks.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by DrGuile+May 30 2005, 09:43 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (DrGuile @ May 30 2005, 09:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@May 30 2005, 12:42 PM

Build the ties back up with commonwealth countries and fuck the EU :)
Thanks, but no thanks. [/b][/quote]
Fuck off frenchie

[Trev]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+May 30 2005, 06:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ May 30 2005, 06:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Trev@May 30 2005, 09:37 AM
Recent surveys predicted that if/when the UK gets its chance to vote that the “NO vote would take it with a 62% majority.

<steps on soapbox>

I personally believe my country should be run from London, our laws should be enacted in London and the Pound is King.

<steps off soapbox>


I’m a nationalist to the extreme.
I always agreed.

Build the ties back up with commonwealth countries and fuck the EU :) [/b][/quote]
I also believe that we shouldn't be a member of any club the French are in :D

[JR]

Originally posted by Trev+May 30 2005, 09:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Trev @ May 30 2005, 09:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Nickatilynx@May 30 2005, 06:42 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Trev@May 30 2005, 09:37 AM
Recent surveys predicted that if/when the UK gets its chance to vote that the “NO vote would take it with a 62% majority.

<steps on soapbox>

I personally believe my country should be run from London, our laws should be enacted in London and the Pound is King.

<steps off soapbox>


I’m a nationalist to the extreme.
I always agreed.

Build the ties back up with commonwealth countries and fuck the EU :)
I also believe that we shouldn't be a member of any club the French are in :D [/b][/quote]
The french probably do not want to be included with people have a ring tone at number 1 on the singles pop charts. :)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8009583/

:))

[Trev]

Originally posted by JR+May 30 2005, 07:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JR @ May 30 2005, 07:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Trev@May 30 2005, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@May 30 2005, 06:42 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Trev@May 30 2005, 09:37 AM
Recent surveys predicted that if/when the UK gets its chance to vote that the “NO vote would take it with a 62% majority.

<steps on soapbox>

I personally believe my country should be run from London, our laws should be enacted in London and the Pound is King.

<steps off soapbox>


I’m a nationalist to the extreme.
I always agreed.

Build the ties back up with commonwealth countries and fuck the EU :)
I also believe that we shouldn't be a member of any club the French are in :D
The french probably do not want to be included with people have a ring tone at number 1 on the singles pop charts. :)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8009583/

:)) [/b][/quote]
For some reason I really like it... better than Joe le Taxi by Vanessa Paradis anyday :yowsa:

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by Trev+May 30 2005, 10:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Trev @ May 30 2005, 10:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by JR@May 30 2005, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by Trev@May 30 2005, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@May 30 2005, 06:42 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Trev@May 30 2005, 09:37 AM
Recent surveys predicted that if/when the UK gets its chance to vote that the “NO vote would take it with a 62% majority.

<steps on soapbox>

I personally believe my country should be run from London, our laws should be enacted in London and the Pound is King.

<steps off soapbox>


I’m a nationalist to the extreme.
I always agreed.

Build the ties back up with commonwealth countries and fuck the EU :)
I also believe that we shouldn't be a member of any club the French are in :D
The french probably do not want to be included with people have a ring tone at number 1 on the singles pop charts. :)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8009583/

:))
For some reason I really like it... better than Joe le Taxi by Vanessa Paradis anyday :yowsa: [/b][/quote]
Oh shuduppa your face!


(my personal favourite)

:)

[grimm]

ringtones.... ugh

http://www.billboard.com/bb/charts/airplay/ringtones.jsp

[Trev]

Originally posted by grimm@May 30 2005, 07:57 PM
ringtones.... ugh

http://www.billboard.com/bb/charts/airplay/ringtones.jsp
This one is ring tone reversal... it's a ring tone that’s been turned into a song and it's toping the UK music chart... kinda Twilight Zone :yowsa:

[leedsfan]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+May 30 2005, 09:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ May 30 2005, 09:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Trev@May 30 2005, 09:37 AM
Recent surveys predicted that if/when the UK gets its chance to vote that the “NO vote would take it with a 62% majority.

<steps on soapbox>

I personally believe my country should be run from London, our laws should be enacted in London and the Pound is King.

<steps off soapbox>


I’m a nationalist to the extreme.
I always agreed.

Build the ties back up with commonwealth countries and fuck the EU :) [/b][/quote]
agreed and bollocks to anyone that thinks it was america that helped push the EU. We don't need your help. We're not the ones trillions of dollars in debt, and growing at a rate of 2 billion a day.

I know a couple of mailers that might be able to do those kind of numbers, but they're disappearing fast.....lol

[Timon]

Originally posted by Mike AI@May 30 2005, 11:07 AM
Timon, I understand why the French rejected it - but it still does not prevent me from enjoying Chirac's failure...
So you are not losing any tears over his resignation?? ;-)

[Nickatilynx]

The new head frenchie looks like a pillow biting , shirt lifting fudge packer.

:)

[Timon]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@May 31 2005, 08:16 AM
The new head frenchie looks like a pillow biting , shirt lifting fudge packer.

obviously Einstein.... HE'S FRENCH!!

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by leedsfan+May 30 2005, 04:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (leedsfan @ May 30 2005, 04:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Nickatilynx@May 30 2005, 09:42 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Trev@May 30 2005, 09:37 AM
Recent surveys predicted that if/when the UK gets its chance to vote that the “NO vote would take it with a 62% majority.

<steps on soapbox>

I personally believe my country should be run from London, our laws should be enacted in London and the Pound is King.

<steps off soapbox>


I’m a nationalist to the extreme.
I always agreed.

Build the ties back up with commonwealth countries and fuck the EU :)
agreed and bollocks to anyone that thinks it was america that helped push the EU. We don't need your help. We're not the ones trillions of dollars in debt, and growing at a rate of 2 billion a day.

I know a couple of mailers that might be able to do those kind of numbers, but they're disappearing fast.....lol [/b][/quote]


It is not an opinion, its a fact. EU had its genesis in NATO, and was pushed by the United States as far back as the 1960s. This was the topic of of my Senior Thesis.

Of course I wrote it back in 1993, but it was briliant! If you are interested, I could see if my mom still has a copy of it. :)

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by Timon+May 31 2005, 08:14 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Timon @ May 31 2005, 08:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mike AI@May 30 2005, 11:07 AM
Timon, I understand why the French rejected it - but it still does not prevent me from enjoying Chirac's failure...
So you are not losing any tears over his resignation?? ;-) [/b][/quote]


I don't think he is going to resign - I think he will hold onto power as long as he can. From what I understand, Chirac cannot be prosecuted for any crimes ( corruption, etc...) until he is out of power. That provides a lot of motivation to keep power.

[Rolo]

Politicians have no honor - Chirac will stay :eninja:

[Jeremy]

Ummmmm a few small points:

Chirac hasn't gone and won't go. His Prime Minister Rafarrin has fallen on his sword, to be replaced by de Villepin, a guy who's never been elected to any public office. (Not quite sure how the fuck that works).

An American school history project marked by an American teacher regrettably doesn't make "America made the EU" fact, it makes it a one-eyed interpretation of events.

The more commonly accepted route to formation of the EU stems from a post-war Franco-German desire not to let the first half of the 20th century repeat itself - "never again" & the view that a very good way to ensure fewer nationalistic contretemps was to bring about economic alliances, integration and inter-dependency. ECSC 1951, Treaty of Rome 1957, etc etc. No doubt the US was also encouraging a strong economic entity as an additional bulwark against the Warsaw Pact countries.

The EU is in some ways a good thing. It's one way to ensure that Europe can compete economically with the US / NAFTA and especially China and or India in the coming decades.

Britain should be at the heart of the EU (if for no other reason than to give the French a poke in the eye), but it shouldn't be built on a federal, euro-socialist model and it certainly shouldn't cost as much to run! To assume one can constitutionalise away centuries of scrapping and dislike over 50 or so years is both foolish and naive.

A British return to the Commonwealth will not work - thoughts that it would smack of expat, flag-raising, gin-wallahs, complaining that things ain't what they used to be as they read their Daily Mail:

No commonwealth countries would be able to buy our goods at "inflated" Western prices, and certainly not in the quantities neccessary to make it economically viable;

None of them would want to even risk going back to being dominated by imperialist London;

Many of them have snuck off and formed their own trading alliances.

[MaDalton]

Originally posted by Mike AI@May 29 2005, 10:26 PM
European unity has only been succesful when the US was pushing it. The EU was a natural extension of NATO/military co-operation - that the US ran.
remind me to kiss your feet next time i see you for thanking you that you allow me to exist.

thank you, thank you, thank you....

[DrGuile]

Holland voted it down like a raise for school teachers

[Trev]

Originally posted by DrGuile@Jun 1 2005, 10:46 PM
Holland voted it down like a raise for school teachers
As if anyone expected it to go any other way.

[leedsfan]

Originally posted by Mike AI+May 31 2005, 06:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike AI @ May 31 2005, 06:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by leedsfan@May 30 2005, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@May 30 2005, 09:42 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Trev@May 30 2005, 09:37 AM
Recent surveys predicted that if/when the UK gets its chance to vote that the “NO vote would take it with a 62% majority.

<steps on soapbox>

I personally believe my country should be run from London, our laws should be enacted in London and the Pound is King.

<steps off soapbox>


I’m a nationalist to the extreme.
I always agreed.

Build the ties back up with commonwealth countries and fuck the EU :)
agreed and bollocks to anyone that thinks it was america that helped push the EU. We don't need your help. We're not the ones trillions of dollars in debt, and growing at a rate of 2 billion a day.

I know a couple of mailers that might be able to do those kind of numbers, but they're disappearing fast.....lol


It is not an opinion, its a fact. EU had its genesis in NATO, and was pushed by the United States as far back as the 1960s. This was the topic of of my Senior Thesis.

Of course I wrote it back in 1993, but it was briliant! If you are interested, I could see if my mom still has a copy of it. :) [/b][/quote]
unfortunately due to the toilet paper crisis in '98 your thesis is now spread far afield.
but your mum said she did read it before she used it.

[leedsfan]

Originally posted by Jeremy@Jun 1 2005, 01:24 AM
Ummmmm a few small points:

Chirac hasn't gone and won't go. His Prime Minister Rafarrin has fallen on his sword, to be replaced by de Villepin, a guy who's never been elected to any public office. (Not quite sure how the fuck that works).

An American school history project marked by an American teacher regrettably doesn't make "America made the EU" fact, it makes it a one-eyed interpretation of events.

The more commonly accepted route to formation of the EU stems from a post-war Franco-German desire not to let the first half of the 20th century repeat itself - "never again" & the view that a very good way to ensure fewer nationalistic contretemps was to bring about economic alliances, integration and inter-dependency. ECSC 1951, Treaty of Rome 1957, etc etc. No doubt the US was also encouraging a strong economic entity as an additional bulwark against the Warsaw Pact countries.

The EU is in some ways a good thing. It's one way to ensure that Europe can compete economically with the US / NAFTA and especially China and or India in the coming decades.

Britain should be at the heart of the EU (if for no other reason than to give the French a poke in the eye), but it shouldn't be built on a federal, euro-socialist model and it certainly shouldn't cost as much to run! To assume one can constitutionalise away centuries of scrapping and dislike over 50 or so years is both foolish and naive.

A British return to the Commonwealth will not work - thoughts that it would smack of expat, flag-raising, gin-wallahs, complaining that things ain't what they used to be as they read their Daily Mail:

No commonwealth countries would be able to buy our goods at "inflated" Western prices, and certainly not in the quantities neccessary to make it economically viable;

None of them would want to even risk going back to being dominated by imperialist London;

Many of them have snuck off and formed their own trading alliances.
what he said. and in french too.

[Nickatilynx]

I agree with your post Jeremy except I think you'll find the gin wallahs read the Telegraph.

[Trev]

Originally posted by leedsfan+Jun 1 2005, 11:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (leedsfan @ Jun 1 2005, 11:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Jeremy@Jun 1 2005, 01:24 AM
Ummmmm a few small points:

Chirac hasn't gone and won't go. His Prime Minister Rafarrin has fallen on his sword, to be replaced by de Villepin, a guy who's never been elected to any public office. (Not quite sure how the fuck that works).

An American school history project marked by an American teacher regrettably doesn't make "America made the EU" fact, it makes it a one-eyed interpretation of events.

The more commonly accepted route to formation of the EU stems from a post-war Franco-German desire not to let the first half of the 20th century repeat itself - "never again" & the view that a very good way to ensure fewer nationalistic contretemps was to bring about economic alliances, integration and inter-dependency. ECSC 1951, Treaty of Rome 1957, etc etc. No doubt the US was also encouraging a strong economic entity as an additional bulwark against the Warsaw Pact countries.

The EU is in some ways a good thing. It's one way to ensure that Europe can compete economically with the US / NAFTA and especially China and or India in the coming decades.

Britain should be at the heart of the EU (if for no other reason than to give the French a poke in the eye), but it shouldn't be built on a federal, euro-socialist model and it certainly shouldn't cost as much to run! To assume one can constitutionalise away centuries of scrapping and dislike over 50 or so years is both foolish and naive.

A British return to the Commonwealth will not work - thoughts that it would smack of expat, flag-raising, gin-wallahs, complaining that things ain't what they used to be as they read their Daily Mail:

No commonwealth countries would be able to buy our goods at "inflated" Western prices, and certainly not in the quantities neccessary to make it economically viable;

None of them would want to even risk going back to being dominated by imperialist London;

Many of them have snuck off and formed their own trading alliances.
what he said. and in french too. [/b][/quote]
AND IN FRENCH!!!!!


I was beginning to really like you as well <_<

[Trev]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jun 1 2005, 11:07 PM
I agree with your post Jeremy except I think you'll find the gin wallahs read the Telegraph.
I know of one that doesn't read at all :(

[Jeremy]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jun 1 2005, 02:07 PM
I agree with your post Jeremy except I think you'll find the gin wallahs read the Telegraph.
You'd have thought that. but the Mail has a frighteningly long reach, and of course, it is the voice of Middle England:

http://www.dmgt.co.uk/corporatestructure/a...ulationfigures/ (http://www.dmgt.co.uk/corporatestructure/associatednewspapers/circulationfigures/)