Show me the ropes...

[NickPapageorgio]

Damn I don't want to just be a designer in this biz. Show me something someone. Take me under your wing. Let me be your understudy. Goddamn I make great coffee. I'll take out the trash. Anything, just show me how to make $1000 a week doing this shit. Something besides submitting galleries or freesites. Damn that gets old quick. I am a pretty smart guy. Why can't I seem to find my niche? Design pays the bills but goddamn I want more than that. 18 hours a day building galleries and paysites and banners makes your hair fall out. Joe has seen my hair, he can attest to that. I need a direction....

[Nickatilynx]

OK...

Whats in it for your mentor?

[NickPapageorgio]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Apr 9 2005, 12:20 PM
OK...

Whats in it for your mentor?
Fuck I don't know...



10% of what I make, free beer, one damn good chili recipe, undying loyalty, free mafia style hits on up to 5 enemys...




...I had typed in "sex with my wife" above but she was over my shoulder reading and hit me with the flyswatter on the noggin, so I suppose that's not an option. :rolleyes:

[Trev]

Originally posted by NickPapageorgio+Apr 9 2005, 09:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (NickPapageorgio @ Apr 9 2005, 09:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Apr 9 2005, 12:20 PM
OK...

Whats in it for your mentor?
Fuck I don't know...



10% of what I make, free beer, one damn good chili recipe, undying loyalty, free mafia style hits on up to 5 enemys...




...I had typed in "sex with my wife" above but she was over my shoulder reading and hit me with the flyswatter on the noggin, so I suppose that's not an option. :rolleyes: [/b][/quote]
Is she still there?


:lol:

[Nickatilynx]

Joking aside....

Seriously...

Why should I teach you the ropes?

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Apr 9 2005, 03:48 PM
Joking aside....

Seriously...

Why should I teach you the ropes?
Because you are a nice guy.

[Trev]

Originally posted by Almighty Colin+Apr 9 2005, 10:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Almighty Colin @ Apr 9 2005, 10:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Apr 9 2005, 03:48 PM
Joking aside....

Seriously...

Why should I teach you the ropes?
Because you are a nice guy. [/b][/quote]
Hahahahaha.. cough... splutter.... hahahahaha


No, but you have a point :lol:

[gonzo]

Originally posted by NickPapageorgio@Apr 9 2005, 03:18 PM
Damn I don't want to just be a designer in this biz. Show me something someone. Take me under your wing. Let me be your understudy. Goddamn I make great coffee. I'll take out the trash. Anything, just show me how to make $1000 a week doing this shit. Something besides submitting galleries or freesites. Damn that gets old quick. I am a pretty smart guy. Why can't I seem to find my niche? Design pays the bills but goddamn I want more than that. 18 hours a day building galleries and paysites and banners makes your hair fall out. Joe has seen my hair, he can attest to that. I need a direction....
Nick "Motherfucking" Papageorgio!

The best tip I freely pass along to you is the one I finally understood this week.
Its been there all along.

Just be yourself.

You know what you enjoy when it comes to porn time keep that in mind along with profits and you will make some extra money. If in doubt... have some guys over and show em the site. IF at the end of the evening they are asking you when its going on line or how much it will cost...thats some measure that your on the right track.

Your experience may vary... but its a damn good place to start.

[BillPMB]

Hey Nick,

Hit me up via email at billpmb at barrltd dot com.

I'll give you a tip that doesn't take 18 hours a day.

Hey, we're darn near neighbors anyway, might as
well hook you up. There's all kinds of ways to make
money in this biz. $1000 week is child's play.

(I like Miller Lite thanks)

:)

[Dravyk]

Originally posted by Almighty Colin+Apr 9 2005, 04:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Almighty Colin @ Apr 9 2005, 04:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Apr 9 2005, 03:48 PM
Joking aside....

Seriously...

Why should I teach you the ropes?
Because you are a nice guy.[/b][/quote]
Because the bread you cast upon the waters ...

... will come back soggy and tasting like fish urine???

[Trev]

Originally posted by Dravyk+Apr 9 2005, 11:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dravyk @ Apr 9 2005, 11:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Almighty Colin@Apr 9 2005, 04:26 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Apr 9 2005, 03:48 PM
Joking aside....

Seriously...

Why should I teach you the ropes?
Because you are a nice guy.
Because the bread you cast upon the waters ...

... will come back soggy and tasting like fish urine??? [/b][/quote]
hahahaaha are you all trying to wreck my new flat screen :lol:


:wnw:

[Nickatilynx]

My comment though edging towards the snide was definitely not aimed at Nick personally was to make a point as sceptical and cynical as that post may be....

[NickPapageorgio]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Apr 9 2005, 12:48 PM
Joking aside....

Seriously...

Why should I teach you the ropes?
Because you've already made it #1

And #2 because you've probably got nothing better to do so why not take a little time and show some new guy who actually wants to learn something that can help him.

And #3 because I would be a challenge. I know nothing. I know how to make a banner look bling bling and I have a basic concept of how things work but actually, I don't know a fucking thing.

[NickPapageorgio]

Originally posted by BillPMB@Apr 9 2005, 02:00 PM
Hey Nick,

Hit me up via email at billpmb at barrltd dot com.

I'll give you a tip that doesn't take 18 hours a day.

Hey, we're darn near neighbors anyway, might as
well hook you up. There's all kinds of ways to make
money in this biz. $1000 week is child's play.

(I like Miller Lite thanks)

:)
Miller Lite, On me, you pick the place and time.

Actually, here lately I have been working on getting back in shape. Riding my new mountain bike and eating right and all that so maybe by the end of the year or next spring I could even meet you for a run or biking or something.

Do you golf any? I don't shoot even in the 90's or anything but I like to throw back a few and hit the ball around a bit. :)

[NickPapageorgio]

And I don't want my original post to be watered down with the comments being made. I come just like you see me. This is me. I don't know the rules and regulations really of how the porn game works and I come open to you and say just that. I don't know shit. I don't act like I do nor will I ever. I just want to learn something new that might ease my tension. I wasn't lucky enough to get in back in 96 or 97 when it was a little easier. (from what I hear) I am just a real guy asking for help. Noone has to help me. I understand that completely. "Why would I help that guy to get a slice of my pie?" I get that logic. But I am just dumb enough to ask for it anyway. B)

[Nickatilynx]

You are a good guy though. :)

And I TOTALLY understand the battle you have been through.

but I'm a jaded vet.

On CONDOM and on Netpond back in the day I helped many many people.

Very very few even bother to thank you..... lol.

However that being said the ones you do help more than make up for every useless git you come accross. :)

So let me apoplogise for my snideness this morning , I was a tad cunty , but I bet I voiced , bluntly , the thought of many vets. :)

the usual way this starts besides "I wanna make money" is really you sorta should have read everything you can , buildiung an empire by Colin is good. I read it , most here did.

There is the expression."The lord helps those who help themselves"

So sorry I'm nhot as pleasent as Bill , my attitude is basically get off your ass , build a site cropss link it , read everything about SE's and traffic generation you can and then come and ask specific questions..

ya know what I mean????

You want ,me to give you a server a clean ,mail list an intro to someone who will yake mail , teach you how to run farenheit LOL, actually help you fix farenheit so it works lol ,introduce you to some proxy guys...what do you want??

It all on a plate????


(LOL seems I'm still a bit cunty LOL...and I so know you are a good guy my bro Ant speaks well of you)

[Vick]

Damn it I thought this thread was going to be about something kinky (or escape artist) when I read "Show me the ropes"

Hey Nick, how about trying this on for size.
You're a good designer, have a lot of customers. I'd even venture to think a lot of repeat customers

Raise the prices you charge for your work,

so what if you work less and make the same $ or more

Get to work with the spread sheet, figure out income per man hour and play with the numbers to get them where you want. Figure out your customers pain threshold

Do what you do well and capitalize on it, don't worry about the few customers you may lose to a small rate increase. Worry about servicing the big accounts that spend and keep spending


and remember what I posted in the other thread
Free advice is usually worth every cent you pay for it

[Nickatilynx]

errr one thing Nick..

Some designers make great money. Up your prices lol

[Vick]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Apr 9 2005, 10:33 PM

but I'm a jaded vet.


Very very few even bother to thank you..... lol.


That something that bothers me

in many cases gratitude has a short shelf life

[Vick]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Apr 9 2005, 10:55 PM
errr one thing Nick..

Some designers make great money. Up your prices lol
Ahhhhhhhh

Yeah, un huh

What Nick said
:rolleyes:

[Nickatilynx]

LOL....ummmmmm


yeah...ummm the more I think about it....


surely a good designer can earn $1000 a week , which is your target salary ???????

[Robin]

Originally posted by BillPMB@Apr 9 2005, 04:00 PM
I'll give you a tip that doesn't take 18 hours a day.

$1000 week is child's play.

Care to share more openly?

Signed - Intensely Curious! ; )

[Sabby]

Do whatever you are good at. The money will follow.


Sabby:)

[Billy]

Sabby what are you good at ???

[Sabby]

Originally posted by Billy@Apr 9 2005, 11:47 PM
Sabby what are you good at ???
LOL. Just being my ever so sweet self ;)


Sabby:)

[Rikk]

Hey I'm very hard working and I would like someone to give it all to me for free as well :lol:

[Armstrong]

Well I aint even hard workin but if theres something going free I'll take some :P

[NickPapageorgio]

Originally posted by Rikk@Apr 10 2005, 01:53 AM
Hey I'm very hard working and I would like someone to give it all to me for free as well :lol:
The difference is, I wasn't asking for anything for free. Fuck it though, I understand where and why everyone stands where they do. That's fine also. Can't fault a guy for asking though, no matter how cunty Nick wants to be about it. If he wasn't intrigued he wouldn't have replied in the first place so I will take what I can from his posts and put them to work for me. I will read the things he suggested to read, even if I don't really understand what I am reading. I guess that's what I wanted more than anything was someone just to kind of explain how things worked. I know that sounds pretty general but it's really all I was after. I understand how alot of it works but some things I really don't get. I will just stay out of those things that don't concern me or that I don't "get". And as shitty as it sounds and as much as I hate to do it, I guess nickpapageorgio prices are about to succumb to inflation. Sorry to anyone who uses me. :)

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program. Already in progress...

[NickPapageorgio]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Apr 9 2005, 07:59 PM
LOL....ummmmmm


yeah...ummm the more I think about it....


surely a good designer can earn $1000 a week , which is your target salary ???????
Sure I can earn that per week designing by spending 18-20 hours a day hunting down clients, making changes for clients after they already approved the design, trying to figure out what a client wants when they have given me no input whatsoever, trying to get in touch with 4 different people to show them samples so I can proceed with the work, building designs I hate because it's what they asked for, hunting down the money that I earned from a client who "disappears" for weeks sometimes after the project is complete and I am trying to get paid, cutting my prices because Client X says he can get it from Webinc for $100 cheaper, while answering 50 ICQ's a day from people who just want to "chat".

I just thought there had to be an easier way...that's all. :rolleyes:

Pay no attention to me bro. Yesterday I was feeling all sorry for myself because I hadn't made much money this week. I get over shit like that. I posted what I posted I guess because I wanted to sound desperate. Fuck that. Sometimes I post when I really shouldn't and yesterday was one of those days.

I'll figure out where I fit into all this soon. It's just a matter of time and patience.

[NickPapageorgio]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Apr 9 2005, 07:33 PM
You are a good guy though. :)

And I TOTALLY understand the battle you have been through.

but I'm a jaded vet.

On CONDOM and on Netpond back in the day I helped many many people.

Very very few even bother to thank you..... lol.

However that being said the ones you do help more than make up for every useless git you come accross. :)

So let me apoplogise for my snideness this morning , I was a tad cunty , but I bet I voiced , bluntly , the thought of many vets. :)

the usual way this starts besides "I wanna make money" is really you sorta should have read everything you can , buildiung an empire by Colin is good. I read it , most here did.

There is the expression."The lord helps those who help themselves"

So sorry I'm nhot as pleasent as Bill , my attitude is basically get off your ass , build a site cropss link it , read everything about SE's and traffic generation you can and then come and ask specific questions..

ya know what I mean????

You want ,me to give you a server a clean ,mail list an intro to someone who will yake mail , teach you how to run farenheit LOL, actually help you fix farenheit so it works lol ,introduce you to some proxy guys...what do you want??

It all on a plate????


(LOL seems I'm still a bit cunty LOL...and I so know you are a good guy my bro Ant speaks well of you)
This post pretty much said it all for me Nick, thanks.

I understand where you are coming from and I apologize for asking in the first place.

And yes that's what I wanted, for you to set everything up, do all the work, get me all the connections and send me a check.

Isn't that how it's supposed to work? B)

[Pro_Zac]

Originally posted by NickPapageorgio@Apr 10 2005, 04:23 AM
And yes that's what I wanted, for you to set everything up, do all the work, get me all the connections and send me a check.

Isn't that how it's supposed to work? B)
Ahh the American Dream - I'll buy into that :)

[Peaches]

Nick, it may be just a few $$$'s a day, but have you considered submitting tours, banners and galleries to the programs that pay when others get sales on your designs? Yes, I'm plugging G3X (http://www.g3x.com/refer.jsp?a=1258) B) but there are several more programs that do the same thing. Get a nice group of those sending traffic (you can even contact people you know, have them sign up under you, let them know to look at your designs and you'd make money off the referrals and the design usage) and even though it might not be $1K a week, it's certainly $$$$ :)

[Trev]

NickPapageorgio do you do anything with search engines at all?

[BillPMB]

NickP can't actually raise his prices to the MikeW level until he lands some clients that tay appention to those XBiz Awards http://www.wyldesites.com/pricing.html at the top right. And, Mike has a proven track record of producing good converting sites with little or no input from the client. Many paysite program operators are too lazy to give input on a site design. (fortunately I'm not lazy like that)

Designing is a pain in the ass. I do alot of my own, and on some levels I like it but overall it's a time sucker. But, it definately needs to be done. So, I farm out what I don't have time for. Many design companies are using asian or east euro minions who work for cheap. Just like brick and mortar industries have gone off shore to save money and increase profit, so has the adult and mainstream design industry.

We should have stayed on MIRC and not had boards like this and YNOT being the gread grandfather of them all, because the surfers came, and then the surfers became hobbyists. Then, the hobbyists started TGPs, and that begat newbie program site operators. If we'd have stayed an enigma, we'd still be enjoying bigger slices of the pie.

But, that's moot.

I'm going to help Nick because:
1: He has no ego issues
2: Seems like a nice guy
3: Lives not 3 miles from me, in fact I run (literally) by his neighborhood a few times a week anyway.

Success in this business isn't as obvious as building a matrix of sites, crosslinking and implementing sound SEO techniques. There are quicker ways to jump start, and none of those ways involve bulk email, usenet spam, dialers, spyware, or anything that could otherwise be construed as "sleezy".

You just have to be clever enough to see an angle that few see and power fuck it baby. :rokk:

[sarettah]

Originally posted by NickPapageorgio@Apr 10 2005, 07:18 AM
Sure I can earn that per week designing by spending 18-20 hours a day hunting down clients, making changes for clients after they already approved the design, trying to figure out what a client wants when they have given me no input whatsoever, trying to get in touch with 4 different people to show them samples so I can proceed with the work, building designs I hate because it's what they asked for, hunting down the money that I earned from a client who "disappears" for weeks sometimes after the project is complete and I am trying to get paid, cutting my prices because Client X says he can get it from Webinc for $100 cheaper, while answering 50 ICQ's a day from people who just want to "chat".

Hey, you could become a programmer. Same prerequisites that you listed :okthumb:

[Vick]

Originally posted by BillPMB@Apr 10 2005, 08:46 AM
because the surfers came, and then the surfers became hobbyists. Then, the hobbyists started TGPs, and that begat newbie program site operators. If we'd have stayed an enigma, we'd still be enjoying bigger slices of the pie.

But, that's moot.


:wnw:

[NickPapageorgio]

Originally posted by sarettah+Apr 10 2005, 05:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (sarettah @ Apr 10 2005, 05:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-NickPapageorgio@Apr 10 2005, 07:18 AM
Sure I can earn that per week designing by spending 18-20 hours a day hunting down clients, making changes for clients after they already approved the design, trying to figure out what a client wants when they have given me no input whatsoever, trying to get in touch with 4 different people to show them samples so I can proceed with the work, building designs I hate because it's what they asked for, hunting down the money that I earned from a client who "disappears" for weeks sometimes after the project is complete and I am trying to get paid, cutting my prices because Client X says he can get it from Webinc for $100 cheaper, while answering 50 ICQ's a day from people who just want to "chat".

Hey, you could become a programmer. Same prerequisites that you listed :okthumb: [/b][/quote]
I think the one I left out for being a programmer however is the "Jamming needles in my eyes from staring at all that code at the end of every day" part. :lol:

[Nickatilynx]

Re -Read everything you've posted in this thread ,Nick and think about it.

And you will learn an awful lot.

Good post from Bill.

I too think yr a good guy.

But again re-read it.

You have the initiative of an amoeaba. LOL

You should be hitting me up on icq getting my phone number etc etc...I give great phone.

You say you get most of it. Good.

You shjould be asking about the bit you don't get.

:)

[sarettah]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Apr 10 2005, 11:00 AM
Re -Read everything you've posted in this thread ,Nick and think about it.

And you will learn an awful lot.

Good post from Bill.

I too think yr a good guy.

But again re-read it.

You have the initiative of an amoeaba. LOL

You should be hitting me up on icq getting my phone number etc etc...I give great phone.

You say you get most of it. Good.

You shjould be asking about the bit you don't get.

:)
I was gonna say earlier that I thought a pikey phone call might be in order.

But I didn't want to give it away..... :blink:

[Rikk]

I think the info posted here is good but the offer by BillPMB is a-fuckin-fantastic one :okthumb: you goin to make a thing of taking on someone every year or so :D

[Pro_Zac]

Originally posted by BillPMB@Apr 10 2005, 05:46 AM
NickP can't actually raise his prices to the MikeW level until he lands some clients that tay appention to those XBiz Awards http://www.wyldesites.com/pricing.html at the top right. And, Mike has a proven track record of producing good converting sites with little or no input from the client. Many paysite program operators are too lazy to give input on a site design. (fortunately I'm not lazy like that)

Designing is a pain in the ass. I do alot of my own, and on some levels I like it but overall it's a time sucker. But, it definately needs to be done. So, I farm out what I don't have time for. Many design companies are using asian or east euro minions who work for cheap. Just like brick and mortar industries have gone off shore to save money and increase profit, so has the adult and mainstream design industry.

We should have stayed on MIRC and not had boards like this and YNOT being the gread grandfather of them all, because the surfers came, and then the surfers became hobbyists. Then, the hobbyists started TGPs, and that begat newbie program site operators. If we'd have stayed an enigma, we'd still be enjoying bigger slices of the pie.

But, that's moot.

I'm going to help Nick because:
1: He has no ego issues
2: Seems like a nice guy
3: Lives not 3 miles from me, in fact I run (literally) by his neighborhood a few times a week anyway.

Success in this business isn't as obvious as building a matrix of sites, crosslinking and implementing sound SEO techniques. There are quicker ways to jump start, and none of those ways involve bulk email, usenet spam, dialers, spyware, or anything that could otherwise be construed as "sleezy".

You just have to be clever enough to see an angle that few see and power fuck it baby. :rokk:
Thats a damn nice offer :okthumb:

[NickPapageorgio]

Originally posted by Trev@Apr 10 2005, 05:20 AM
NickPapageorgio do you do anything with search engines at all?
Actually Trev, I wouldn't even know where to look for good information on how to work with the SE anymore. I read up on it some a few years ago when everyone and their brother had mountains of text the same color as the background color, but from what I understand, the rules have changed a bit since then. :D

[Trev]

Originally posted by NickPapageorgio+Apr 10 2005, 07:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (NickPapageorgio @ Apr 10 2005, 07:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Trev@Apr 10 2005, 05:20 AM
NickPapageorgio do you do anything with search engines at all?
Actually Trev, I wouldn't even know where to look for good information on how to work with the SE anymore. I read up on it some a few years ago when everyone and their brother had mountains of text the same color as the background color, but from what I understand, the rules have changed a bit since then. :D [/b][/quote]
The search engines aren't the nightmare that everyone thinks they are, but the hidden text days are well over :lol:

My personal favourite is still(and probably always will be) Google, you'd be surprised what having a link on a good link list(PR5) can do for your sites PR when Google stumbles across it :)

[BillPMB]

http://www.webworkshop.net/seoforum/ :ph34r:

[cj]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Apr 9 2005, 10:59 PM
LOL....ummmmmm


yeah...ummm the more I think about it....


surely a good designer can earn $1000 a week , which is your target salary ???????
unfortunately not ;-(

there's so much competition its not worth it to try to compete ... unless you are Mike W or Sharky's AAA or Webinc, with a long list of regular clients and its really hard to compete with the mass production of webinc and the quality of the other 2 ... and even those guys have a maximum earning potental due to it being an hourly rate job that simply does not go higher than that.

A designer can't ask to be paid for a % of earnings from the site ... so its an hourly rate and the total wage you can make is restricted by how many hours in the day you can work.

Look at it this way ....

15 hours of work x $50 per hour = $750 per day or $5250 per week
MAXIMUM EARNING POTENTIAL EVER

Design of 1 paysite - 1 page, 8 hours ... 2 pages, 12 hours, 3 pages, 15 hours = $750 ....

minus time to go to the toilet, eat, see friends/family and the above paysite that could only take 1 sitting ends up taking 2 days - there's a $750 loss as you waste day 2 finishing it off.

For me, my best asset as a business owner is to be able to design my own shit as I think of it, eliminating that frustrating process of a marketer/biz owner explaining to a designer what they want.

I consider myself to be an extremely quick designer purely because of how many paysites/logos and portals i've designed in 9 years ... in 8 hours I can produce what takes most a week, because I don't have to explain to myself how I want something to look or why a certain type of bevel sucks LOL

Imagine how many more billable hours you'd have in a day if you didn't have to spend 20% of your time extracting info from a client? If you are wondering why you can't get past $X of income, look at where your billable hours go ... as you said, it all goes on answering questions and fixing *the clients* typo's etc. And every 2 minute job takes 30 minutes ... etc.

PapaG, don't underestimate the value of the skill you have - and look at how you can use it to benefit yourself. Your clients show you what they want and are effectively teaching you how they make money off your designs.

The only way to make a design worth more than the hours invested into it is to get traffic to it ... right now PapaG, you are making the design and then giving it to someone else to water and feed ...

Find one of your clients who will lend you a watering can ... another who will give you some fertilizer ... another who will share their water ... put it all together and you've started to build your own garden.

Nobody is going to give you the blueprint, because there isn't one ... we each do the same thing slightly differently ... the best advice I can give you is to open your eyes and ears and stay alert and learn - your clients are already teaching you the ropes - you just haven't noticed ;-)

[The Other Steve]

Hot damn - there's another real pearl - there are some days this board is the only place to be!

[Hell Puppy]

We pay our designers in doughnuts, ho-ho's and twinkies.

[sarettah]

Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Apr 10 2005, 10:16 PM
We pay our designers in doughnuts, ho-ho's and twinkies.
programmer food (specially the ho hos....) Yum :okthumb:

[Hell Puppy]

Originally posted by sarettah+Apr 10 2005, 10:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (sarettah @ Apr 10 2005, 10:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Hell Puppy@Apr 10 2005, 10:16 PM
We pay our designers in doughnuts, ho-ho's and twinkies.
programmer food (specially the ho hos....) Yum :okthumb: [/b][/quote]
For really important projects, I usually resort to Yoo-hoo and Little Debbie oatmeal cream pies.

[Anthony]

Originally posted by cj+Apr 10 2005, 05:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (cj @ Apr 10 2005, 05:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Apr 9 2005, 10:59 PM
LOL....ummmmmm


yeah...ummm the more I think about it....


surely a good designer can earn $1000 a week , which is your target salary ???????
unfortunately not ;-(

there's so much competition its not worth it to try to compete ... unless you are Mike W or Sharky's AAA or Webinc, with a long list of regular clients and its really hard to compete with the mass production of webinc and the quality of the other 2 ... and even those guys have a maximum earning potental due to it being an hourly rate job that simply does not go higher than that.

A designer can't ask to be paid for a % of earnings from the site ... so its an hourly rate and the total wage you can make is restricted by how many hours in the day you can work.

Look at it this way ....

15 hours of work x $50 per hour = $750 per day or $5250 per week
MAXIMUM EARNING POTENTIAL EVER

Design of 1 paysite - 1 page, 8 hours ... 2 pages, 12 hours, 3 pages, 15 hours = $750 ....

minus time to go to the toilet, eat, see friends/family and the above paysite that could only take 1 sitting ends up taking 2 days - there's a $750 loss as you waste day 2 finishing it off.

For me, my best asset as a business owner is to be able to design my own shit as I think of it, eliminating that frustrating process of a marketer/biz owner explaining to a designer what they want.

I consider myself to be an extremely quick designer purely because of how many paysites/logos and portals i've designed in 9 years ... in 8 hours I can produce what takes most a week, because I don't have to explain to myself how I want something to look or why a certain type of bevel sucks LOL

Imagine how many more billable hours you'd have in a day if you didn't have to spend 20% of your time extracting info from a client? If you are wondering why you can't get past $X of income, look at where your billable hours go ... as you said, it all goes on answering questions and fixing *the clients* typo's etc. And every 2 minute job takes 30 minutes ... etc.

PapaG, don't underestimate the value of the skill you have - and look at how you can use it to benefit yourself. Your clients show you what they want and are effectively teaching you how they make money off your designs.

The only way to make a design worth more than the hours invested into it is to get traffic to it ... right now PapaG, you are making the design and then giving it to someone else to water and feed ...

Find one of your clients who will lend you a watering can ... another who will give you some fertilizer ... another who will share their water ... put it all together and you've started to build your own garden.

Nobody is going to give you the blueprint, because there isn't one ... we each do the same thing slightly differently ... the best advice I can give you is to open your eyes and ears and stay alert and learn - your clients are already teaching you the ropes - you just haven't noticed ;-) [/b][/quote]
This is one smart businessperson!

[sarettah]

Originally posted by Hell Puppy+Apr 10 2005, 10:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Hell Puppy @ Apr 10 2005, 10:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by sarettah@Apr 10 2005, 10:37 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Hell Puppy@Apr 10 2005, 10:16 PM
We pay our designers in doughnuts, ho-ho's and twinkies.
programmer food (specially the ho hos....) Yum :okthumb:
For really important projects, I usually resort to Yoo-hoo and Little Debbie oatmeal cream pies. [/b][/quote]
Fuck. I haven't seen a yoo hoo in like forever. I love Yoo Hoos :okthumb:

I lean toward the various chocolate type Little Debbies myself..lololol.

[iknowalttl]

Originally posted by cj@Apr 10 2005, 08:52 PM
Nobody is going to give you the blueprint, because there isn't one ... we each do the same thing slightly differently ... the best advice I can give you is to open your eyes and ears and stay alert and learn - your clients are already teaching you the ropes - you just haven't noticed ;-)
Great statement... this is how I have always thought it to be but there is always an exception to every rule. Big props out to Bill for stepping up for the new guy Nick. Looks like this is your exception Nick. I hope this thread keeps bringing out more for the rest of us noobies to pick up on. I have came across many bits and pieces here at Opranos.

Thank you all who posted.

[Armstrong]

Originally posted by iknowalttl+Apr 10 2005, 09:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (iknowalttl @ Apr 10 2005, 09:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-cj@Apr 10 2005, 08:52 PM
Nobody is going to give you the blueprint, because there isn't one ... we each do the same thing slightly differently ... the best advice I can give you is to open your eyes and ears and stay alert and learn - your clients are already teaching you the ropes - you just haven't noticed ;-)
Great statement... this is how I have always thought it to be but there is always an exception to every rule. Big props out to Bill for stepping up for the new guy Nick. Looks like this is your exception Nick. I hope this thread keeps bringing out more for the rest of us noobies to pick up on. I have came across many bits and pieces here at Opranos.

Thank you all who posted. [/b][/quote]
I agree 100% :okthumb:

[creams]

This and so many other threads over here on Oprano are just a mass of information. my hats off to all of you :rokk:

[NickPapageorgio]

Originally posted by cj+Apr 10 2005, 05:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (cj @ Apr 10 2005, 05:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Apr 9 2005, 10:59 PM
LOL....ummmmmm


yeah...ummm the more I think about it....


surely a good designer can earn $1000 a week , which is your target salary ???????
unfortunately not ;-(

there's so much competition its not worth it to try to compete ... unless you are Mike W or Sharky's AAA or Webinc, with a long list of regular clients and its really hard to compete with the mass production of webinc and the quality of the other 2 ... and even those guys have a maximum earning potental due to it being an hourly rate job that simply does not go higher than that.

A designer can't ask to be paid for a % of earnings from the site ... so its an hourly rate and the total wage you can make is restricted by how many hours in the day you can work.

Look at it this way ....

15 hours of work x $50 per hour = $750 per day or $5250 per week
MAXIMUM EARNING POTENTIAL EVER

Design of 1 paysite - 1 page, 8 hours ... 2 pages, 12 hours, 3 pages, 15 hours = $750 ....

minus time to go to the toilet, eat, see friends/family and the above paysite that could only take 1 sitting ends up taking 2 days - there's a $750 loss as you waste day 2 finishing it off.

For me, my best asset as a business owner is to be able to design my own shit as I think of it, eliminating that frustrating process of a marketer/biz owner explaining to a designer what they want.

I consider myself to be an extremely quick designer purely because of how many paysites/logos and portals i've designed in 9 years ... in 8 hours I can produce what takes most a week, because I don't have to explain to myself how I want something to look or why a certain type of bevel sucks LOL

Imagine how many more billable hours you'd have in a day if you didn't have to spend 20% of your time extracting info from a client? If you are wondering why you can't get past $X of income, look at where your billable hours go ... as you said, it all goes on answering questions and fixing *the clients* typo's etc. And every 2 minute job takes 30 minutes ... etc.

PapaG, don't underestimate the value of the skill you have - and look at how you can use it to benefit yourself. Your clients show you what they want and are effectively teaching you how they make money off your designs.

The only way to make a design worth more than the hours invested into it is to get traffic to it ... right now PapaG, you are making the design and then giving it to someone else to water and feed ...

Find one of your clients who will lend you a watering can ... another who will give you some fertilizer ... another who will share their water ... put it all together and you've started to build your own garden.

Nobody is going to give you the blueprint, because there isn't one ... we each do the same thing slightly differently ... the best advice I can give you is to open your eyes and ears and stay alert and learn - your clients are already teaching you the ropes - you just haven't noticed ;-) [/b][/quote]
That was a really good post cj, and I have been picking up little things from my clients as far as learning sales techniques and such, but that's not all it takes to make sales on the internet. My problem is, I can't seem to add the flame to the fire so to say. I can gather the wood, I can arrange it in the most flammable position, but I just can't seem to find a fucking lighter anywhere. :)

[sarettah]

Originally posted by creams@Apr 11 2005, 05:36 AM
This and so many other threads over here on Oprano are just a mass of information. my hats off to all of you :rokk:
" Aahhh... that's Oprano for you! Ask for a crumb and receive a meal! ;-))) "
- bpj

http://www.oprano.com/pearls_y1.html