Testosterone Therapy

[Anthony]

SHORT NOTES if you dont' want to read all the following... Would you take Steroids?




Testosterone therapy: The answer for aging men?

By Mayo Clinic staff

The possibilities are enticing: Increase your muscle mass, sharpen your memory and mental focus, boost your libido, and improve your energy level. If you're an older man, this may sound like the ultimate anti-aging formula. But such health benefits from testosterone therapy aren't quite so clear-cut.

QuoteTestosterone therapy has been used successfully for years to treat men with abnormally low testosterone levels — a medical condition called male hypogonadism. More recently, healthy, aging men have taken the hormone to boost waning testosterone levels. But not enough is known about the effects of testosterone therapy for this purpose. No long-term studies have weighed the potential benefits against the possible risks, including infertility and prostate problems.

Despite the lack of scientific evidence, testosterone therapy is growing in popularity. Pharmacies filled 2.2 million testosterone prescriptions in 2003 — twice the number filled in 2000, according to IMS Health, a company that tracks pharmaceutical sales. Though the number appears to be growing, there's no data that tracks who is filling these prescriptions — men or women — and for what purpose.

At the core of the controversy is whether gradually declining testosterone levels are a natural phenomenon or a health condition. And the practical question for men and their doctors is whether to treat it, particularly in the absence of scientific evidence. Before you buy into the tempting claims, find out what's known — and not known — about testosterone therapy so that you can make the best decision for you and your long-term health.

The natural decline of testosterone

Starting around age 40, a man's body produces about 1 percent less testosterone each year. Testosterone is the main male hormone that maintains muscle mass and strength, fat distribution, bone mass, sperm production, sex drive, and potency.
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The influence of testosterone
The influence of testosterone The male hormone testosterone plays an important role in the development ...
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Many call this progressive decline of hormones "male menopause" or "andropause" and equate it to women's menopause. But this isn't a valid comparison, says Todd Nippoldt, M.D., an endocrinologist at Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minn. "In women, ovulation ceases and female hormone production plummets over a relatively short time frame," he says. "In men, there's a gradual decline in the production of male hormones."

For most men, testosterone levels naturally decline but still remain within the normal range throughout their lifetime, causing no significant problems. But about two in 10 men age 60 and older have testosterone levels below the normal range (testosterone deficiency).

Testosterone deficiency can have several effects on the body, including:

* Decreased energy
* Reduced muscle mass and strength
* Decreased cognitive function
* Less sexual interest or potency
* Depressed mood

If you experience these signs or symptoms, you may or may not have testosterone deficiency. Other medical conditions — such as liver disease, hypothyroidism and depression — can cause these effects as can certain medications, including beta blockers, pain killers and certain drugs for depression or anxiety. In addition, some healthy men encounter these changes as a part of the natural aging process, possibly because of declining hormones other than testosterone.

Talk to your doctor if you're experiencing these signs and symptoms. He or she can help determine the likely cause and suggest the best treatment plan, if any.

Testosterone therapy: Potential benefits and risks

In hypogonadal men, testosterone therapy can restore sexual function and muscle strength and prevent bone loss. Also, some men taking testosterone therapy report an increase in energy, sex drive and well-being.

Some anti-aging enthusiasts claim that increasing the level of testosterone in older and healthy men provides these same benefits. Though potentially beneficial for some of these men, testosterone therapy isn't risk-free. High doses of testosterone may result in sleeping problems, infertility and excess blood production, which could increase the risk of stroke. Increasing testosterone levels may also pose problems for the prostate, a small male gland that produces most of the fluids in semen.

Testosterone naturally stimulates the growth of the prostate. Long-term testosterone treatment could cause benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) — enlargement of the prostate gland. Also, doctors are concerned that testosterone therapy might fuel the growth of prostate cancer that is already present. This is especially worrisome since prostate cancer is common in older men, and many men have prostate cancer that isn't diagnosed.

To carefully weigh the potential pros and cons for you, consider the following:
Potential benefits Potential risks

* Improve muscle mass and strength
* Increase bone mineral density
* Thicken hair and skin
* Improve sex drive
* Boost energy
* Decrease irritability and depression
* Improve cognitive function



* Cause or aggravate sleep apnea (brief, repeated cessation of breathing during sleep)
* Stimulate noncancerous (benign) growth of the prostate and cause or worsen urinary symptoms
* Stimulate the growth of prostate cancer that's already present
* Enlarge breasts (gynecomastia)
* Limit sperm production
* Stimulate excess blood production (polycythemia)
* Cause acne

* Sleep apnea
* Prostate cancer
* Prostate gland enlargement
* Polycythemia


Men aren't the only ones evaluating the benefits and risks of hormone therapy. For years, women have wrestled with the decision whether to take hormone therapy for the treatment of menopausal symptoms. They've had to assess the pros and cons based on the available scientific evidence. Dr. Nippoldt says that men should learn from women's experience.

"Early studies suggested that taking hormone therapy might protect postmenopausal women from heart disease. But a large, long-term study found just the opposite results," he says. "We learned from these studies that we just can't predict all the potential harmful effects of taking hormones even though on the surface they may seem beneficial."

Who should take testosterone therapy?

Testosterone therapy is clearly beneficial for men whose testicles fail to produce sufficient levels of testosterone (hypogonadism). For this group of men, it can restore sexual function and muscle strength and prevent bone loss.

Few studies have evaluated possible benefits and risks of testosterone therapy for healthy, aging men. And those that have been done provide conflicting results. Many questions remain unanswered, particularly the extent and the duration of the beneficial effects, which men might benefit, and the possible long-term risks.

In November 2003, the Institute of Medicine (IOM) reviewed the current evidence surrounding testosterone therapy and reported that this treatment is only appropriate for men who produce little or no testosterone. The IOM concluded that the long-term effects of supplemental testosterone on otherwise healthy men aren't known. And until more studies have been done, the institute recommends that testosterone therapy not be used to prevent or relieve the physical or psychological effects of aging.

The debate continues

There's no question a man faces emotional and physical challenges as he gets older. Changes at home, at work and within his body all affect a man's general health. If you're concerned that you might have a hormone deficiency, talk to you doctor. A decline in testosterone that falls below normal values may be a reason to take supplemental testosterone. But it remains unclear whether restoring the testosterone levels to those of youth benefits older men.

Related Information

* Male hypogonadism

* Growth hormone to prevent aging: Is it a good idea?

* Anti-aging therapies: Youth in a bottle?

* Men's Health Center

[Nickatilynx]

We've had this thousands of times...

In my youth when I was into sport I would never have dreamt of taking steroids.

At my age , yeah right , thats what I need , to bulk up more.

;-)))

[JoesHO]

I am against steroids, unless it is medically necassary for some outstanding condition ( such as steroids are used for allergy patients , etc..)

But for physical enhancement I don't see the point

[Anthony]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Mar 29 2005, 08:23 AM
We've had this thousands of times...

In my youth when I was into sport I would never have dreamt of taking steroids.

At my age , yeah right , thats what I need , to bulk up more.

;-)))
It increases lean body mass (muscle) while decreasing fat.

I remember reading a report on a triple blind study on college students.

First group was given a placebo and worked out

Secod group was given steriods and worked out

Third group was given steriods and did not work out.

All 3 groups were tested for strength and lean body mass prior to taking sterolids.

The second group of course increased strength and lean body mass. What was interesting was that the third group gained strength and body mass moreso than the first group using the placebo and working out.

Testosterone therapy has helped many individuals with low levels. Low levels of testosterone have been linked to depression, weight gain, and physical ailments due to inactivity.

I'm all for it.

[Nickatilynx]

""" No long-term studies have weighed the potential benefits against the possible risks, including infertility and prostate problems.""""


Not good.

Ummm.....

It sounds to me like another form of self medicating ,frankly.

So , lets drop booze , X , and cocaine ....and replace it with roids.

If I was in Fl , I'd soooo slap you silly and you know it :)

[Anthony]

Originally posted by JoesHO1@Mar 29 2005, 08:32 AM
I am against steroids, unless it is medically necassary for some outstanding condition ( such as steroids are used for allergy patients , etc..)

But for physical enhancement I don't see the point
I agree Joe. Steroids primarily Deca Durabolin is used to increase lean body mass and are given to AIDS patients to stop and in some cases, help increase their muscles mass lost due to AIDS.

There isn't a professinal sport today that doesn't have steroids involved in it. I was watching HBO the other night, Fernando Vargas claims he was given steroids and didn't know it. Sorry, but if you are getting pricked by a needle, it ain't vitamin B.

How many Gold Medals have been retracted to Performance Enhancing drugs?

[Anthony]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Mar 29 2005, 08:44 AM
""" No long-term studies have weighed the potential benefits against the possible risks, including infertility and prostate problems.""""


Not good.

Ummm.....

It sounds to me like another form of self medicating ,frankly.

So , lets drop booze , X , and cocaine ....and replace it with roids.

If I was in Fl , I'd soooo slap you silly and you know it :)
Not admiting that I am taking any, but if I were, and it helped with my depression, my bad physical condition, and general well being, why would it be a bad thing? Considering that it is used only for short periods of time.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by Anthony+Mar 29 2005, 08:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Anthony @ Mar 29 2005, 08:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Mar 29 2005, 08:44 AM
""" No long-term studies have weighed the potential benefits against the possible risks, including infertility and prostate problems.""""


Not good.

Ummm.....

It sounds to me like another form of self medicating ,frankly.

So , lets drop booze , X , and cocaine ....and replace it with roids.

If I was in Fl , I'd soooo slap you silly and you know it :)
Not admiting that I am taking any, but if I were, and it helped with my depression, my bad physical condition, and general well being, why would it be a bad thing? Considering that it is used only for short periods of time. [/b][/quote]
Hello!!!

Read what ya just posted man.....

Its like saying "What wrong with doing cocaine , I feel better when I do cocaine"

So why you shouldn't do it is exactly the same reason you should not treat depression with X and cocaine .

If someone say felt that way , wouldn't it be smarter for that person to see a Doctor who if he thought it would help he'd prescribe it , or more likely something to treat the depression.

[Anthony]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Mar 29 2005, 08:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Mar 29 2005, 08:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Anthony@Mar 29 2005, 08:48 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Mar 29 2005, 08:44 AM
""" No long-term studies have weighed the potential benefits against the possible risks, including infertility and prostate problems.""""


Not good.

Ummm.....

It sounds to me like another form of self medicating ,frankly.

So , lets drop booze , X , and cocaine ....and replace it with roids.

If I was in Fl , I'd soooo slap you silly and you know it :)
Not admiting that I am taking any, but if I were, and it helped with my depression, my bad physical condition, and general well being, why would it be a bad thing? Considering that it is used only for short periods of time.
Hello!!!

Read what ya just posted man.....

Its like saying "What wrong with doing cocaine , I feel better when I do cocaine"

So why you shouldn't do it is exactly the same reason you should not treat depression with X and cocaine .

If someone say felt that way , wouldn't it be smarter for that person to see a Doctor who if he thought it would help he'd prescribe it , or more likely something to treat the depression. [/b][/quote]
Testosterone therapy is done when prescribed by a doctor.

A battery of tests are first done to measure: testosterne, estrogen, dht, chloesterol, etc. It's not something you just go to the local gym dealer and say, Hey give me 2000ml of Deca and winstrol please.

You don't get a prescription unless you are deficient, and in my case, I was under half a normal male my age is, with my estrogen higher by 10 points the norm. Explains why I was gaining weight and not eating anything more than usual.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by Anthony+Mar 29 2005, 09:03 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Anthony @ Mar 29 2005, 09:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Mar 29 2005, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by Anthony@Mar 29 2005, 08:48 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Mar 29 2005, 08:44 AM
""" No long-term studies have weighed the potential benefits against the possible risks, including infertility and prostate problems.""""


Not good.

Ummm.....

It sounds to me like another form of self medicating ,frankly.

So , lets drop booze , X , and cocaine ....and replace it with roids.

If I was in Fl , I'd soooo slap you silly and you know it :)
Not admiting that I am taking any, but if I were, and it helped with my depression, my bad physical condition, and general well being, why would it be a bad thing? Considering that it is used only for short periods of time.
Hello!!!

Read what ya just posted man.....

Its like saying "What wrong with doing cocaine , I feel better when I do cocaine"

So why you shouldn't do it is exactly the same reason you should not treat depression with X and cocaine .

If someone say felt that way , wouldn't it be smarter for that person to see a Doctor who if he thought it would help he'd prescribe it , or more likely something to treat the depression.
Testosterone therapy is done when prescribed by a doctor.

A battery of tests are first done to measure: testosterne, estrogen, dht, chloesterol, etc. It's not something you just go to the local gym dealer and say, Hey give me 2000ml of Deca and winstrol please.

You don't get a prescription unless you are deficient, and in my case, I was under half a normal male my age is, with my estrogen higher by 10 points the norm. Explains why I was gaining weight and not eating anything more than usual. [/b][/quote]
A minute ago you were even denying the fact that you were doing it , now you are inferring strongly that it has been prescibed.

If precribed in person by a reputable Doctor then take it.

:)

[Anthony]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Mar 29 2005, 09:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Mar 29 2005, 09:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Anthony@Mar 29 2005, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Mar 29 2005, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by Anthony@Mar 29 2005, 08:48 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Mar 29 2005, 08:44 AM
""" No long-term studies have weighed the potential benefits against the possible risks, including infertility and prostate problems.""""


Not good.

Ummm.....

It sounds to me like another form of self medicating ,frankly.

So , lets drop booze , X , and cocaine ....and replace it with roids.

If I was in Fl , I'd soooo slap you silly and you know it :)
Not admiting that I am taking any, but if I were, and it helped with my depression, my bad physical condition, and general well being, why would it be a bad thing? Considering that it is used only for short periods of time.
Hello!!!

Read what ya just posted man.....

Its like saying "What wrong with doing cocaine , I feel better when I do cocaine"

So why you shouldn't do it is exactly the same reason you should not treat depression with X and cocaine .

If someone say felt that way , wouldn't it be smarter for that person to see a Doctor who if he thought it would help he'd prescribe it , or more likely something to treat the depression.
Testosterone therapy is done when prescribed by a doctor.

A battery of tests are first done to measure: testosterne, estrogen, dht, chloesterol, etc. It's not something you just go to the local gym dealer and say, Hey give me 2000ml of Deca and winstrol please.

You don't get a prescription unless you are deficient, and in my case, I was under half a normal male my age is, with my estrogen higher by 10 points the norm. Explains why I was gaining weight and not eating anything more than usual.
A minute ago you were even denying the fact that you were doing it , now you are inferring strongly that it has been prescibed.

If precribed in person by a reputable Doctor then take it.

:) [/b][/quote]
I didn't want to come out and admit, hey man, I got low testosterone. :)

[Nickatilynx]

Oh come on!!!!!

On a scale od things we've admitted.....thats pretty tame ;-)))))))

[Anthony]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Mar 29 2005, 09:14 AM
Oh come on!!!!!

On a scale od things we've admitted.....thats pretty tame ;-)))))))
True, but then again, we haven't admitted to the hot tubs, the snuggling, and other assorted things that are quite possibly due to high estrogen levels.

:):):):):)

[Mike AI]

I wonder if your low test problem was from taking steriods earlier in life?

[Anthony]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Mar 29 2005, 10:17 AM
I wonder if your low test problem was from taking steriods earlier in life?
Good question. I will ask the Doctor later this week.

When we received the tests back, and was told how low my testosterone was, I asked the Doc what was causing it. He said, age, nutrition, and enviroment.

[JR]

Here is my opinion.

although testosterone is classified as a steroid and illegal without a doctors prescription, it is still a hormone that exists naturally in your body. your testosterone levels can be easily checked with blood tests. its not like you would be flying blind and just waiting to see what happens were you to use it. it can be supplmented to increase naturally decreasing test levels in the body to healthy levels which comes with many side effects that are beneficial to someone who has already seen many years of declining hormone levels. though it has an obvious anabolic effect, it shouldn't be looked at as the same thing as shooting decca durabolin or any other anabolic steroid that is not found in the body.

on a side note, testosterone (all 4 forms/compounds) do not increase muscle mass as significantly as other steroids, is probably one of the least effective for mass gains on its own and for retaining gains and is used only in conjunction with other steroids for significant muscle growth.

as for Joes remark that he doesnt see the point in taking steroids.. its a personal choice. steroids overcome peoples natural genetic limitations to increase muscle mass beyond what they could normally and to do it much faster.

many people don't see the point in smoking pot and agree that it is dangerous and unhealthy... so the arguments can go back and forth about what is pointless and what isn't ;)

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by Anthony+Mar 29 2005, 01:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Anthony @ Mar 29 2005, 01:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mike AI@Mar 29 2005, 10:17 AM
I wonder if your low test problem was from taking steriods earlier in life?
Good question. I will ask the Doctor later this week.

When we received the tests back, and was told how low my testosterone was, I asked the Doc what was causing it. He said, age, nutrition, and enviroment. [/b][/quote]


Did you juice before? Did you tell the doctor you did?

I have friends who used steriods back in the day, and I think their body now makes less testosterone now . I think this is from the past use.

When your body realizes it has more testosterone in the body, it turns off the functions that makes testosterone naturally ( the human body is amazing). This could lead to low test levels down the road when body is not able to turn production back on, or as high as it was before.

Testosterone therapy for old guys is NOTHING like the steriod abuse by athletes or those with small egos. I beleive my uncle is on a test patch, its a control dose which is TINY. ( Most athletes take 1000% more in one shot).

[Anthony]

Originally posted by Mike AI+Mar 29 2005, 10:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike AI @ Mar 29 2005, 10:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Anthony@Mar 29 2005, 01:23 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Mike AI@Mar 29 2005, 10:17 AM
I wonder if your low test problem was from taking steriods earlier in life?
Good question. I will ask the Doctor later this week.

When we received the tests back, and was told how low my testosterone was, I asked the Doc what was causing it. He said, age, nutrition, and enviroment.


Did you juice before? Did you tell the doctor you did?

I have friends who used steriods back in the day, and I think their body now makes less testosterone now . I think this is from the past use.

When your body realizes it has more testosterone in the body, it turns off the functions that makes testosterone naturally ( the human body is amazing). This could lead to low test levels down the road when body is not able to turn production back on, or as high as it was before.

Testosterone therapy for old guys is NOTHING like the steriod abuse by athletes or those with small egos. I beleive my uncle is on a test patch, its a control dose which is TINY. ( Most athletes take 1000% more in one shot). [/b][/quote]
Yeah I gave full disclosure to the Doctor about my past use when I was younger. Though my use was limited to 2 12 week cycles taken almost 5 years apart over 10 years ago.

You are correct, once the human body notices an increase, it shuts down it's own production. Nolvadex and Clomids and HCG shots kick back the body own production.

[Toni]

Hay Anthadude

I must have very high Testosterone, Is that why im so hairy?

What can the doc’s do for me? :unsure:

[Anthony]

Originally posted by toni@Mar 29 2005, 12:41 PM
Hay Anthadude

I must have very high Testosterone, Is that why im so hairy?

What can the doc’s do for me? :unsure:
Get your levels tested. I don't think hairy arms are an indicator. I think you are just one hairy biyatch! :)

[Toni]

Originally posted by Anthony+Mar 29 2005, 12:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Anthony @ Mar 29 2005, 12:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-toni@Mar 29 2005, 12:41 PM
Hay Anthadude

I must have very high Testosterone, Is that why im so hairy?

What can the doc’s do for me? :unsure:
Get your levels tested. I don't think hairy arms are an indicator. I think you are just one hairy biyatch! :) [/b][/quote]
I ain’t a biyatch im a gorilla :P

[Anthony]

Originally posted by toni+Mar 29 2005, 12:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (toni @ Mar 29 2005, 12:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Anthony@Mar 29 2005, 12:50 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-toni@Mar 29 2005, 12:41 PM
Hay Anthadude

I must have very high Testosterone, Is that why im so hairy?

What can the doc’s do for me? :unsure:
Get your levels tested. I don't think hairy arms are an indicator. I think you are just one hairy biyatch! :)
I ain’t a biyatch im a gorilla :P [/b][/quote]
No you're not.

:)

[JoesHO]

Originally posted by toni+Mar 29 2005, 12:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (toni @ Mar 29 2005, 12:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Anthony@Mar 29 2005, 12:50 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-toni@Mar 29 2005, 12:41 PM
Hay Anthadude

I must have very high Testosterone, Is that why im so hairy?

What can the doc’s do for me? :unsure:
Get your levels tested. I don't think hairy arms are an indicator. I think you are just one hairy biyatch! :)
I ain’t a biyatch im a gorilla :P [/b][/quote]
lets see the hair, I need a closer evaluation to determine

I used to be a doctor you know, a world renowned at that ...

[pushpills]

can I bottle and sell mine? i've got extra.

[cj]

Originally posted by Mike AI+Mar 29 2005, 01:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike AI @ Mar 29 2005, 01:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Anthony@Mar 29 2005, 01:23 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Mike AI@Mar 29 2005, 10:17 AM
I wonder if your low test problem was from taking steriods earlier in life?
Good question. I will ask the Doctor later this week.

When we received the tests back, and was told how low my testosterone was, I asked the Doc what was causing it. He said, age, nutrition, and enviroment.


Did you juice before? Did you tell the doctor you did?

I have friends who used steriods back in the day, and I think their body now makes less testosterone now . I think this is from the past use.

When your body realizes it has more testosterone in the body, it turns off the functions that makes testosterone naturally ( the human body is amazing). This could lead to low test levels down the road when body is not able to turn production back on, or as high as it was before.

Testosterone therapy for old guys is NOTHING like the steriod abuse by athletes or those with small egos. I beleive my uncle is on a test patch, its a control dose which is TINY. ( Most athletes take 1000% more in one shot). [/b][/quote]
this is the case with everything ...

if you have too much of anything when your body is growing, its going to slow down producing it and cause health problems later in life ...

what people don't realize is that most man made medications make the condition worse by producing whatever your body is lacking for it, instead of teaching it how to produce it again by itself.

you can cover up symptoms by artifically replacing the missing element in the body, but as soon as you stop taking the medication you are several steps behind where you were before you started taking it.

There was a thread here a few weeks ago and a bunch of us talked about experiences taking medications and the difficulties our bodies went through when trying to get off the drug ....... surely you can see that far ahead ant, especially with your commitment to your body & the willpower you've showed in looking after yourself.

Your body is probably still detoxing, and you still have poison running through your blood which is what causes all 'chemical imbalances' as doctors like to call it ... of course you are going to get depressed when your body is full of shit it doesn't know how to process.

I have reached the point now with my body that i can read *exactly* the effect different foods have on my body and my body chemistry ... if i have too much sugar, i get really anxious and nervous .... if i eat wheat's or glutens, i get really emotional .... if I eat dairy (especially icecream) I get awful pains and lose all motivation ... if i eat any of the above a few days in a row, i feel the depression pit start to take over and it lingers until i've detoxed it out of my body. every food has a chemical composition, and every body's chemical composition reacts differently to each food.

Could I suggest that you visit a naturopath and nutritionist before you start putting more chemicals into your body? pretty please? ;-)

[gonzo]

Testosterone reduction starts at 30 ....

[aeon]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Mar 29 2005, 10:44 AM
Testosterone therapy for old guys is NOTHING like the steriod abuse by athletes or those with small egos.
Why is it a small ego decision? People get their nose; cheeks, chins, boobs, teeth & other body parts hacked on to look better. It’s considered par for the course almost for a woman to get a face lift (which is a brutal surgical procedure) but when someone uses a synthetic hormone to help achieve the physique they desire somehow it’s considered negative?

What about people who use diet pills etc.,?

[Anthony]

Originally posted by aeon+Mar 29 2005, 06:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (aeon @ Mar 29 2005, 06:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mike AI@Mar 29 2005, 10:44 AM
Testosterone therapy for old guys is NOTHING like the steriod abuse by athletes or those with small egos.
Why is it a small ego decision? People get their nose; cheeks, chins, boobs, teeth & other body parts hacked on to look better. It’s considered par for the course almost for a woman to get a face lift (which is a brutal surgical procedure) but when someone uses a synthetic hormone to help achieve the physique they desire somehow it’s considered negative?

What about people who use diet pills etc.,? [/b][/quote]
Holy shit.

I agree with Aeon.

Planets must be aligned or something.

[JoesHO]

the procedures AEON is talking about, do not have adverse health effects when they are done

taking steroids for just physical (non medical) enhancement will be worse for the user than the short term benifites they recieved for the enhancement they sought.

also these other procedures are surgical , not drug induced short term was the point I was trying to make earlier.

However with that said, if physical ailment and the desire to overcome that is the desired results, I am mixed on the usage depending on a case by case basis i guess would be my answear.

[JR]

Originally posted by JoesHO1@Mar 29 2005, 08:50 PM
the procedures AEON is talking about, do not have adverse health effects when they are done

taking steroids for just physical (non medical) enhancement will be worse for the user than the short term benifites they recieved for the enhancement they sought.

you can't prove that. all you can prove is a case against the risks from abuse. there is a big difference between using and abusing something. binge drinking for example, can kill you in less than 30 days... or even in one day... or a glass of red wine a day can decrease the likelyhood of heart disease and possibly extend your life. can i then make a blanket statement about the risks from "alcohol" without clarifying types, quantities and the roles of individuality?

[cj]

my ex's mother died when he was 13 after complications from breast enhancement surgery ...

imagine being a 13 year old kid and trying to come to terms with the fact that your mother died trying to make her tits bigger.

is it really that important how you look if your quality of life is affected by your attempts to be more attractive?

[Anthony]

Originally posted by cj@Mar 29 2005, 09:48 PM
my ex's mother died when he was 13 after complications from breast enhancement surgery ...

imagine being a 13 year old kid and trying to come to terms with the fact that your mother died trying to make her tits bigger.

is it really that important how you look if your quality of life is affected by your attempts to be more attractive?
If your quality of life is enhanced?

Does the same hold true?

[cj]

*if* .........

your call babe .... its your body .......

just be careful
we don't want to lose you

[aeon]

Originally posted by JoesHO1@Mar 29 2005, 08:50 PM
the procedures AEON is talking about, do not have adverse health effects when they are done
You're without a doubt, one of the stupidest sumbitchs I've ever had the displeasure to encounter.

People can die when they have some twit scalping away on them to give them the perfect nose or increase their tit size. You do know when you go under general anastesia you might not come out of it? People pay everyday to potentially die in order to satisfy their vanity.

There are no replicable studies on the long term effects of controlled anabolic use. Just like pot - this is politics & propoganda, not science.