VISA stops auto recurring [Archive] - Oprano Adult Industry Forums

Peaches

03-15-2005, 01:08 PM

http://www.wtsbank.com

Just a friendly reminder........ :awinky:

BTW, Rolo - at least one large program is already offering a 5% discount if you use a check, check is the first window if you choose a free membership and they've had checks as the first listed option for at least 2 years :)

Have I mentioned http://www.wtsbank.com ? B)

Nickatilynx

03-15-2005, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by Peaches@Mar 15 2005, 10:09 AM
http://www.wtsbank.com

Just a friendly reminder........ :awinky:

BTW, Rolo - at least one large program is already offering a 5% discount if you use a check, check is the first window if you choose a free membership and they've had checks as the first listed option for at least 2 years :)

Have I mentioned http://www.wtsbank.com ? B)
I always thought (from minor retail experience in the UK) that VISA went loopy if you did that. ie offered a discount not to use them but pay cash etc etc instead?

Vick

03-15-2005, 01:19 PM

Ok after reading the title of the thread the bill for my dry cleaning is on the way

RyanLanane

03-15-2005, 01:21 PM

I don't believe this will ever happen simply because of the large number of non adult transactions that are recurring on the web alone let alone monthly bills, mortgage payments, etc that can now be setup on debit cards not just by withdrawing from your bank account.

They would also be looking at a lawsuit, I would assume, if they targetted just the adult sector - Interesting topic though none the less.

Peaches

03-15-2005, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Mar 15 2005, 02:18 PM
I always thought (from minor retail experience in the UK) that VISA went loopy if you did that. ie offered a discount not to use them but pay cash etc etc instead?
I've heard that too, but I would guess it all depends on what your actual contract with them says. Probably also depends on how you word it. i.e. offering a discount for cash is different that saying you're penalized if you use Visa.

Of course, it could also be what you're willing to get away with :)

Vick

03-15-2005, 01:25 PM

Ryan - I respectfully disagree

Adult on line memberships are classified as high risk transactions
Therefore those transactions are different from other types of recurring

and it's Visa's game and ball and Visa can do whatever the fuck they please
Visa doesn't need the headache of high risk transactions for the small amount of revenue it brings

SykkBoy

03-15-2005, 01:27 PM

As a smaller program, I'm sure it would be easier for us than some of the larger programs who've basically just coasted on rebills.

We'd just simply email them each month and offer a discount...example: thanks for being a member, your membership is up for renewal, if you'd like to renew now, we'll give you a 5% discount. Click here for a preview of our upcoming updates. Renew now so you don't miss out on any of the exiting action.

Loss of recurring would be more devastating to affiliates than site owners, IMHO as it would lead to a reduction in payouts.

PornoDoggy

03-15-2005, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by SykkBoy@Mar 15 2005, 01:28 PM
Loss of recurring would be more devastating to affiliates than site owners, IMHO as it would lead to a reduction in payouts.
You got that right ...

Combine that, along with an hour's sleep, and you'll understand that my initial "Idea of March" was to burn Nick at the stake for starting this thread.

TheEnforcer

03-15-2005, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by PornoDoggy+Mar 15 2005, 01:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PornoDoggy @ Mar 15 2005, 01:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-SykkBoy@Mar 15 2005, 01:28 PM
Loss of recurring would be more devastating to affiliates than site owners, IMHO as it would lead to a reduction in payouts.
You got that right ...

Combine that, along with an hour's sleep, and you'll understand that my initial "Idea of March" was to burn Nick at the stake for starting this thread. [/b][/quote]
Umm.. that's not quite the aftermath I had in mind!! :P

RyanLanane

03-15-2005, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by Vick@Mar 15 2005, 10:26 AM
Ryan - I respectfully disagree

Adult on line memberships are classified as high risk transactions
Therefore those transactions are different from other types of recurring

and it's Visa's game and ball and Visa can do whatever the fuck they please
Visa doesn't need the headache of high risk transactions for the small amount of revenue it brings

I agree whole heartedly with the fact that Visa can do what they want unfortunately. I would think though that they would stop processing adult ENTIRELY before cancelling recurring transactions...

If it comes to a court case (which it will - think about the MILLIONS of recurring monthly transactions keeping programs afloat right now, someone will sue) they would have to justify why they think that the recurring model that has been in place for a decade now for these type of transactions will be less high risk if they stop the recurring billing.

Bottom line, people will still say they never ordered the membership, my son did it without my permission, spyware must have got my CC # etc... There are a million excuses. How would Visa say this makes this industry less high risk ? The argument will come up that anything they say a good attorney could state "How is (besides the initial transaction which they are still willing to process) the recurring model any different from non adult products that recur, such as vitamins... etc

It is a very very interesting topic - I think Visa WILL make a move and a new product will come out "The Porn Card" you load it with your Visa/MC and use it for adult transactions. This industry is very inventive lol ...

Mr Benn

03-15-2005, 02:50 PM

They would lose too much themselves ;)

Nickatilynx

03-15-2005, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by Mr Benn@Mar 15 2005, 11:51 AM
They would lose too much themselves ;)
Nickdark is trying to get in touch , Mr.Benn

(I'm everyones fucking secretary now lol)

*KK*

03-15-2005, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by Almighty Colin@Mar 15 2005, 09:36 AM
Like I said, "beware the idea of march"
Or the ides of the insane? ;)

Frankly I think Visa will put an end to the affiliate program before they put an end to rebills.

Dravyk

03-15-2005, 03:22 PM

Won't happen. Period.

Oh, and this thread would have been more appropriate 15 days hence. :yowsa:

Nickatilynx

03-15-2005, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by *KK*+Mar 15 2005, 12:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (*KK* @ Mar 15 2005, 12:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Almighty Colin@Mar 15 2005, 09:36 AM
Like I said, "beware the idea of march"
Or the ides of the insane? ;)

Frankly I think Visa will put an end to the affiliate program before they put an end to rebills. [/b][/quote]
I think they will kill all 3rd party billers first...

PornoDoggy

03-15-2005, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Mar 15 2005, 03:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Mar 15 2005, 03:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by *KK*@Mar 15 2005, 12:20 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Almighty Colin@Mar 15 2005, 09:36 AM
Like I said, "beware the idea of march"
Or the ides of the insane? ;)

Frankly I think Visa will put an end to the affiliate program before they put an end to rebills.
I think they will kill all 3rd party billers first... [/b][/quote]
and let god sort them out?

03-15-2005, 06:39 PM

bastard nick :rolleyes:

Who knows what will happen wth Visa ... we should have all learned long ago not to try to predict what they will pull out of their asses next. My new business motto is 'be flexible'!!!!

I think the next few years will focus heavily on phone billing methods as the younger generations are 100% culturally attached to their phones as a means of communication, paying for shit etc.

They have recently introduced parking metres in some areas of Sydney that can be paid for on your phone .... you have to call up or sms, send in a number and bam, it is instantly billed to your phone and you can walk away without worrying about change or expiring metres etc.

Its only a matter of time before you walk past a store and swipe something in your phone (or PDA all in 1 thingy) to pay for an item.

Trev

03-15-2005, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by cj@Mar 16 2005, 12:40 AM
I think the next few years will focus heavily on phone billing methods as the younger generations are 100% culturally attached to their phones as a means of communication, paying for shit etc.
:okthumb:

I'm in no way the next generation (not by at least 15 years or so :( )

But I seem to spend less and less time talking on my phone and more and more time either sending/receiving: sms, mms, football goals,porn.... I can be anywhere and get anything with my phone...

However it seems that no matter what I do with my mobile and how in touch I think I am both my nephews (17 and 15) find it "soo old" and "last year" so god knows what they're doing with theirs

03-15-2005, 07:12 PM

>>However it seems that no matter what I do with my mobile and how in touch I think I am both my nephews (17 and 15) find it "soo old" and "last year" so god knows what they're doing with theirs

Hey, I'm only 1 generation behind them and I can't bloody keep up!! LOL

I think the main difference in the current highschool leaving generation is the actual take-up and saturation of the technology. In my age group, almost everyone has a mobile phone - but I got my first one at 18 - it was unheard of to have one before that unless your parents were extremely rich or you were very spoilt (or dealing drugs from school LOL).

So while I have been using a mobile for 10 years, the kids of today have had them since they are 13 (on average) ... sms is not just a cute novelty way to communicate, its the only way they know how to communicate. By the time they are 18 ...... fuck knows what will happen.

Back in my day (heehhheheh) my parents used to make me *write* letters to my grand parents. Phonecalls were too expensive to make regularly.

When talking about 3 years and 5 years it doesn't seem long ... but I only graduated from school 10 years ago - first year of my college degree involved DRAWING ... 2nd year, they figured 'this computer art might take of' ........

here's a pop quiz ... what software were you using 5 years ago?

Nickatilynx

03-15-2005, 07:23 PM

"""" here's a pop quiz ... what software were you using 5 years ago?"""

ah we were using ...SpamBastard100(beta)

;-)

Trev

03-15-2005, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by cj@Mar 16 2005, 01:13 AM
>>However it seems that no matter what I do with my mobile and how in touch I think I am both my nephews (17 and 15) find it "soo old" and "last year" so god knows what they're doing with theirs

Hey, I'm only 1 generation behind them and I can't bloody keep up!! LOL

I think the main difference in the current highschool leaving generation is the actual take-up and saturation of the technology. In my age group, almost everyone has a mobile phone - but I got my first one at 18 - it was unheard of to have one before that unless your parents were extremely rich or you were very spoilt (or dealing drugs from school LOL).

So while I have been using a mobile for 10 years, the kids of today have had them since they are 13 (on average) ... sms is not just a cute novelty way to communicate, its the only way they know how to communicate. By the time they are 18 ...... fuck knows what will happen.

Back in my day (heehhheheh) my parents used to make me *write* letters to my grand parents. Phonecalls were too expensive to make regularly.

When talking about 3 years and 5 years it doesn't seem long ... but I only graduated from school 10 years ago - first year of my college degree involved DRAWING ... 2nd year, they figured 'this computer art might take of' ........

here's a pop quiz ... what software were you using 5 years ago?
My software start - to now:
ZX Spectrum 48K :okthumb:
Commador 64K
Amstrad CPC464 (or something like that.. it had a green screen)
Amiga 500
Amiga 1200
Windows 95
Windows 98
Windows 98SE
Windows 2000
XP (cringe)

Back running 98SE at the moment because all the spyware and hacker freaks have left it alone...

Nickatilynx

03-15-2005, 07:28 PM

""My software start - to now:
ZX Spectrum 48K
Commador 64K""

Eric is in a room .it is dark.
>Light

The light reveals an ogre
>fight

The ogre kills you.

;-)

Nickatilynx

03-15-2005, 07:29 PM

What ever happened to Sir Clive Sinclair I wonder...

Trev

03-16-2005, 02:17 AM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Mar 16 2005, 01:30 AM
What ever happened to Sir Clive Sinclair I wonder...
Everyone branded him a mental after his electric car the C5 :blink:

I see him on Discovery Home and Leasure playing poker in the late night poker program... He lost 5K in about 10 minutes of the show back in October....

Cars and poker don't seem to be his thing

boldy

03-16-2005, 02:28 AM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Mar 15 2005, 09:27 AM
OK , restart your heart..it was a hypothetical.

But I believe it will come.

What are your plans.

Mine is to do what we do in nonadult and drop them a personal email.

Any other ideas?
I'll chip in a buck or two, and we buy the joint Nick... :bdance:

iknowalttl

03-16-2005, 02:54 AM

I remember a game called Battle Chess where the rook looked like the rock guy from the fantastic four...

Rolo

03-16-2005, 04:51 AM

I´m not sure VISA cares about business models - if you can do recurrings without chargebacks, then why should they care? If they want to mess with us, then they will do as before - just lower the chargeback rates, and then sit back and watch how the industry will adapt... :unsure:

The other regulations they have made have been to protect their brand, and eliminate the loopholes in their security/fraud systems.

I´m sure VISA see the past regulations as great successes - now they have more control than ever, and I´m sure the overall problem with chargebacks are on a decrease.

VISA and merchant banks are in our industry to make money, and as long as they make high profit money with limited risk then they will continue to be here (due to our high risk status, then they charge more, than "normal" merchant).

On a per transaction basis, then adult processing is a lucrative "niche" for VISA and merchant banks....

*KK*

03-16-2005, 02:59 PM

I'd also be willing to bet that transaction amounts under $5 get canned before recurring as well. There's no money in those for the issuing banks, as a matter of fact, it costs them money to allow those.

And the issuers have probably got more power than the acquirers do these days.

Dravyk

03-16-2005, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by *KK*@Mar 16 2005, 03:00 PM
I'd also be willing to bet that transaction amounts under $5 get canned before recurring as well. There's no money in those for the issuing banks, as a matter of fact, it costs them money to allow those.
Someone had better tell ITunes to fold.

03-16-2005, 04:26 PM

CJ has the only meaningful response in my opinion that can be summed up in two words. "be flexible" - plan for and expect everything... then instead of shock and surprise when changes occur, you will see it as one more small adjustment that you are well prepared, for in an industry that is in a constant state of flux and change.

*KK*

03-16-2005, 06:18 PM

Originally posted by Dravyk+Mar 16 2005, 12:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dravyk @ Mar 16 2005, 12:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-*KK*@Mar 16 2005, 03:00 PM
I'd also be willing to bet that transaction amounts under $5 get canned before recurring as well. There's no money in those for the issuing banks, as a matter of fact, it costs them money to allow those.
Someone had better tell ITunes to fold. [/b][/quote]
No, someone better tell them to start selling 6 songs for 5 bucks minimum.

Simple math goes like this.

I am B of A, Citi, whatever. I issue you a card, either credit or debit. You use that card and I have to make a contribution to the card association every time you use it. Let's say it' a quarter, to keep it simple.

You buy something for a buck, and I have to pay a quarter. No amount of interest payments is going to come up with the money that it takes to actually profit or break even on that transaction.

When times are good, banks tend to look at the bottom line a lot more than they do when times are tight. When profit margins are down, then looking at the line items, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that there are points that cause losses.

Wouldn't take a new Visa rule or anything else to fix this little problem either. B of A, Citi, whomever, can deny transactions based on BINs without any sort of rules.

Dravyk

03-16-2005, 08:23 PM

No, someone better tell them to start selling 6 songs for 5 bucks minimum.
Well, I'm for that. I strongly believe in micropayments.

I even more strongly believe in micropayments when they are tied into something larger, such as the 6 for $5 plan or the $5 membership minimum with the $1 per unit pricing.

03-17-2005, 12:29 AM

Originally posted by Dravyk@Mar 16 2005, 08:24 PM
No, someone better tell them to start selling 6 songs for 5 bucks minimum.
Well, I'm for that. I strongly believe in micropayments.

I even more strongly believe in micropayments when they are tied into something larger, such as the 6 for $5 plan or the $5 membership minimum with the $1 per unit pricing.
micro payments

mobile phones

;-)