Da Vinci Code - Catholic Church Speak out

[Nickatilynx]

OK... so if the Vatican denies it...




Church fights Da Vinci Code novel

Cardinal Bertone will host a seminar to rebut the book's claims
The Roman Catholic Church in Italy has spoken out against what it says are "shameful and unfounded lies" in the best-selling novel The Da Vinci Code.
Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, Archbishop of Genoa, broke the church's official silence on the controversial book.

Its story about the Church suppressing the "truth" that Jesus had a child with Mary Magdalene has convinced many fans.

But the cardinal's spokesman denied reports that the clergyman was asked by the Vatican to hit back at the book.

Carlo Arcolao told the BBC's News website that it had been the cardinal's own decision to make a public statement about the book.

Mr Arcolao confirmed that the cardinal told an Italian newspaper: "It astonishes and worries me that so many people believe these lies."

The archbishop told Il Giornale: "The book is everywhere. There is a very real risk that many people who read it will believe that the fables it contains are true."


The Da Vinci Code has made author Dan Brown a household name
The book's publishers Random House were currently unavailable for comment.

The Da Vinci Code, by US author Dan Brown, has been a publishing sensation around the world and is still in best-seller lists.

Its conspiracy theories and thriller style, in which two code-breakers try to track down the truth behind the Holy Grail, have caught the imaginations of millions.

Its central claim is that the Holy Grail is really the bloodline descended from Jesus and Mary Magdalene - which the Church is supposed to have covered up, along with the female role in Christianity.

Brown has previously said: "All of the art, architecture, secret rituals, secret societies, all of that is historical fact."

'Unmask lies'

On Wednesday, Cardinal Bertone will host a seminar called Storia Senza Storia (Story Without History) to rebut the claims.

He said he wanted "to unmask the lies" so readers could see how "shameful and unfounded" the book was.

The cardinal has been deputy to Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the man known as "the Pope's enforcer" and a possible successor to the pontiff.

As well as the original novel, published in 2003, another 10 books have been written to debunk its claims and a booming tourist industry has sprung up around its sites.

It is also being turned into a film starring Tom Hanks, Jean Reno and Audrey Tautou. Publisher Transworld was unavailable for comment.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Mar 15 2005, 11:48 AM


As well as the original novel, published in 2003, another 10 books have been written to debunk its claims and a booming tourist industry has sprung up around its sites.


yeap...
:)

http://nocomments.com/1/London04/index6.html

:)

Been there...

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by Winetalk.com+Mar 15 2005, 08:53 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Winetalk.com @ Mar 15 2005, 08:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Mar 15 2005, 11:48 AM


As well as the original novel, published in 2003, another 10 books have been written to debunk its claims and a booming tourist industry has sprung up around its sites.


yeap...
:)

http://nocomments.com/1/London04/index6.html

:)

Been there... [/b][/quote]
Lived there...


;-))

[TheEnforcer]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0145531/

At the very end of the movie they talk about what is believed to be additional gospels that were written that COMPLETELY undermine the role of the church in religion. They were found by the Dead sea and have been kept locked away by the catholic church and denouced as a fraud.

I trust the catholic church less than I would trust the devil. At least with the devil you know that you have to scrutinize everything brought to you whereas the catholic chucrh tries to portray itself as the end all be all of morality.

[Mike AI]

Think its bad now, wait till the movie comes out - then the great masses in the US wll beleive it.

Maybe they can get Michael Moore to produce and direct it or Oliver Stone!

:lol: :lol:

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by TheEnforcer@Mar 15 2005, 09:22 AM
At least with the devil you know that you have to scrutinize everything brought to you whereas the catholic chucrh tries to portray itself as the end all be all of morality.
:)

[Weg Cory]

Does anyone not see the irony in all this?

I have not completed reading the novel as of yet.

Has anyone seen the Turin Shroud?

LOL. Another testament to how idiotic both camps really are...

[JR]

The real headline should be "The Vatican Unwittingly Quadruples Sales of The Davinci Code Worldwide Overnight - Further Hurting Their Own Case Against The Book"

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Mar 15 2005, 12:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Mar 15 2005, 12:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-TheEnforcer@Mar 15 2005, 09:22 AM
At least with the devil you know that you have to scrutinize everything brought to you whereas the catholic chucrh tries to portray itself as the end all be all of morality.
:) [/b][/quote]
An interesting quote to think on from my favorite movie.....


John Milton: Let me give you a little inside information about God. God likes to watch. He's a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift, and then what does He do, I swear for His own amusement, his own private, cosmic gag reel, He sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look but don't touch. Touch, but don't taste. Taste, don't swallow. Ahaha. And while you're jumpin' from one foot to the next, what is he doing? He's laughin' His sick, fuckin' ass off. He's a tight-ass. He's a sadist. He's an absentee landlord. Worship that? Never.

[jmk]

Nickatilynx ... your avatar is hilarious !

[jmk]

The book is FICTION .... There are some facts in there, most of the story is fiction.
"historical facts" ... I'd say no, since the winners write history :)

I read several other books about Jesus and that he might have had a son, there is simply A LOT of controversial stuff on both sides. Maybe believing a little bit from both sides might be a good approach?!

Will we ever know the whole truth ... probably not!

Cheers!

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by JR@Mar 15 2005, 01:00 PM
The real headline should be "The Vatican Unwittingly Quadruples Sales of The Davinci Code Worldwide Overnight - Further Hurting Their Own Case Against The Book"
Heh. No shit.

[Peaches]

My mother wrote my son and told him he was going to burn in hell because he read it.

I wonder what she'd think about the porn?

[jmk]

Originally posted by Peaches@Mar 15 2005, 11:45 AM
My mother wrote my son and told him he was going to burn in hell because he read it.
It is not up to HER if your son will burn in hell ... actually her statement got her a step closer ;)

[SykkBoy]

This is probably their way of distracting everyone from the fact they have all these pedo priests running around fucking children......

[Peaches]

Originally posted by jmk+Mar 15 2005, 03:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (jmk @ Mar 15 2005, 03:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Peaches@Mar 15 2005, 11:45 AM
My mother wrote my son and told him he was going to burn in hell because he read it.
It is not up to HER if your son will burn in hell ... actually her statement got her a step closer ;) [/b][/quote]
Exactly - which makes my dark heart a little happier :)

[WWCDonMike]

Originally posted by JR@Mar 15 2005, 10:00 AM
The real headline should be "The Vatican Unwittingly Quadruples Sales of The Davinci Code Worldwide Overnight - Further Hurting Their Own Case Against The Book"
You know, that is so true. I had no desire to read this book until I read this post. Now I'm really intrigued.

[WWCDonMike]

Originally posted by Peaches@Mar 15 2005, 11:45 AM
My mother wrote my son and told him he was going to burn in hell because he read it.

I wonder what she'd think about the porn?
I remember when my mom told me not to shop at the Disney store because the Disney company owned Mirimax and Mirimax put out the movie "Priest".

Turns out the pastor in her church told her to boycot Disney. I said, "If the pastor in your church told you to jump off a bridge..."

At the age of 25 my mother actually attempted to give me a spanking. LOL!!!

[Peaches]

Originally posted by WWCDonMike+Mar 15 2005, 03:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (WWCDonMike @ Mar 15 2005, 03:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Peaches@Mar 15 2005, 11:45 AM
My mother wrote my son and told him he was going to burn in hell because he read it.

I wonder what she'd think about the porn?
I remember when my mom told me not to shop at the Disney store because the Disney company owned Mirimax and Mirimax put out the movie "Priest".

Turns out the pastor in her church told her to boycot Disney. I said, "If the pastor in your church told you to jump off a bridge..."

At the age of 25 my mother actually attempted to give me a spanking. LOL!!! [/b][/quote]
My favorite was when my mother sent me info on boycotting Kmart for whatever reason they were boycotting someone that week (advertising on a TV show they didn't like usually caused this). My mother was writing letters to Kmart telling them she wasn't going to shop there if they didn't pull their advertising. My mother's never been in a Kmart in her life - they wouldn't exactly be going broke without her $0, lol! :P

[Trev]

As a Catholic I can't see what the problem is here, I mean Jesus was ment to be in his 30's when he was crucified and if anyone expects a 30 year old not to have jumped a few bones then they're just plain insane...

Maybe the shroud of turin was used instead of the chicks curtains :huh:

[Nickatilynx]

Jesus was raised Jewish.

Every traditional duty of the parent was done , trade etc etc , except according to the gospels...marrying him off.

Remember a committee incl a Roman Emperor picked what would be included.

Also the reason why Priests do not marry is not some high moral ground.

It was to prevent Church property etc being made inheritable assets.

[Dravyk]

So the Catholic Church is going to deny it's denying something ...

Oh yeah, that's going to convince everybody! :blink:

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Mar 15 2005, 03:22 PM


Also the reason why Priests do not marry is not some high moral ground.

It was to prevent Church property etc being made inheritable assets.


Bingo!

It is all about $$$.

Priest originally COULD marry, but the Church quickly realized they were losing their assets to inheritance - which back in the day was forced to heirs.

I beleive a few original Popes were married as well.

If the Catholic Church was smart, they would change this up - or else soon they will have nothing but pedeophiles joining the clergy.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by WWCDonMike@Mar 15 2005, 02:58 PM
I remember when my mom told me not to shop at the Disney store because the Disney company owned Mirimax and Mirimax put out the movie "Priest".

Turns out the pastor in her church told her to boycot Disney. I said, "If the pastor in your church told you to jump off a bridge..."

At the age of 25 my mother actually attempted to give me a spanking. LOL!!!
At the priest's request? :groucho:

[Trev]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Mar 15 2005, 09:31 PM
If the Catholic Church was smart, they would change this up - or else soon they will have nothing but pedeophiles joining the clergy.
That's been happening here for years...

[naughty_weena]

the fact that the church is being defensive and making a big deal about this only means that they're hiding something.

[Newton]

I read somewhere today about a woman who got pregnant, not from penetrative sex, but from swallowing a wad and it somehow permeated her stomach walls and into her tubes and she became pregnant. That is probably what happened to Mary, she just swallowed a load from Joseph; she gagged on it and it travelled the same route, with the same defects in her stomach walls, and thus her hymen was intact.

Its an ecumenical question ;)

They are even mentioning it during sermons now, that they support this persons or that persons polictics, and they said we dont support any particular side but indeed name the politicians and the party in the sermon.. wankers!

[Nickatilynx]

Indeed LOL

As the person in Trev's avatar would tell us:


"I believe thats an ecumenical matter. FECK!!! ARSE!! GIRLS!! "

[Trev]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Mar 15 2005, 09:58 PM
Indeed LOL

As the person in Trev's avatar would tell us:


"I believe thats an ecumenical matter. FECK!!! ARSE!! GIRLS!! "
DRINK!!!

[Toni]

Originally posted by Trev+Mar 15 2005, 12:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Trev @ Mar 15 2005, 12:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Mar 15 2005, 09:58 PM
Indeed LOL

As the person in Trev's avatar would tell us:


"I believe thats an ecumenical matter. FECK!!! ARSE!! GIRLS!! "
DRINK!!! [/b][/quote]
You might not look like Father Jack babe but you sure do act like him :wankit:

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by toni+Mar 15 2005, 01:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (toni @ Mar 15 2005, 01:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Trev@Mar 15 2005, 12:59 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Mar 15 2005, 09:58 PM
Indeed LOL

As the person in Trev's avatar would tell us:


"I believe thats an ecumenical matter. FECK!!! ARSE!! GIRLS!! "
DRINK!!!
You might not look like Father Jack babe but you sure do act like him :wankit: [/b][/quote]
TONI!!!!

:)


I love the Episode when the Bishops visit and they try and sensible him up lol

[chodadog]

The archbishop told Il Giornale: "The book is everywhere. There is a very real risk that many people who read it will believe that the fables it contains are true."

Hold on a second... which book is he talking about... ?

[JR]

Originally posted by chodadog@Mar 15 2005, 01:13 PM
The archbishop told Il Giornale: "The book is everywhere. There is a very real risk that many people who read it will believe that the fables it contains are true."

Hold on a second... which book is he talking about... ?
hahahahahahahahaha!


good point.

[Vick]

How many times do I have to say it

All Gods are superstition

For all intents and purposes there is little to no difference between Christ and Apollo (or insert your favorite deity here)


That being said I haven't read The Da Vinci Code but I did read Angels and Demons by Dan Brown

Somewhat boring story and I couldn't get behind or relate to any of the characters but he does get off some great lines and interesting concepts

[Anthony]

Originally posted by Trev@Mar 15 2005, 12:17 PM
As a Catholic I can't see what the problem is here, I mean Jesus was ment to be in his 30's when he was crucified and if anyone expects a 30 year old not to have jumped a few bones then they're just plain insane...

Maybe the shroud of turin was used instead of the chicks curtains :huh:
Or her hair.

[Toni]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Mar 15 2005, 01:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Mar 15 2005, 01:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by toni@Mar 15 2005, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by Trev@Mar 15 2005, 12:59 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Mar 15 2005, 09:58 PM
Indeed LOL

As the person in Trev's avatar would tell us:


"I believe thats an ecumenical matter. FECK!!! ARSE!! GIRLS!! "
DRINK!!!
You might not look like Father Jack babe but you sure do act like him :wankit:
TONI!!!!

:)


I love the Episode when the Bishops visit and they try and sensible him up lol [/b][/quote]
Hi Nick :)

Out of all the programs I've seen my fav is the one were they take the flight and Father Jack ends up swinging in the tree at the end with the drinks trolley just out of reach :lol:

[slavdogg]

where is Jesus burried ??
Why isnt anyone searching for his body ??

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by slavdogg@Mar 15 2005, 05:40 PM
where is Jesus burried ??
Why isnt anyone searching for his body ??
Slavv,
his body was found already in another book:

"Another roadside attraction" by Tom Robbins

check it out!
:)

[slavdogg]

Originally posted by TheEnforcer@Mar 15 2005, 12:22 PM
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0145531/

At the very end of the movie they talk about what is believed to be additional gospels that were written that COMPLETELY undermine the role of the church in religion. They were found by the Dead sea and have been kept locked away by the catholic church and denouced as a fraud.

I trust the catholic church less than I would trust the devil. At least with the devil you know that you have to scrutinize everything brought to you whereas the catholic chucrh tries to portray itself as the end all be all of morality.
That was a good movie

btw, you're confusing Dead Sea Scrolls and gospels that were found in Egypt

[slavdogg]

Originally posted by Winetalk.com@Mar 15 2005, 05:42 PM


"Another roadside attraction"
road kill ? :)

[grimm]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Mar 15 2005, 09:43 AM
Think its bad now, wait till the movie comes out - then the great masses in the US wll beleive it.

Maybe they can get Michael Moore to produce and direct it or Oliver Stone!

:lol: :lol:
shouldn't listen to the catholic church so much. The book was fiction, but there is much evidence supporting the basic tenet of what it was written around.

The catholic church has for centuries quelled other beliefs through violence, stolen pagan symbols as its own, created an entire corporation out of faith. I would not trust the Church for anything. The latest scandals involving the relocation of sex offending priests should serve as a glaring reminger that the Catholic Church will do anything to protect its place.

[grimm]

Originally posted by TheEnforcer+Mar 15 2005, 10:04 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TheEnforcer @ Mar 15 2005, 10:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Mar 15 2005, 12:55 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-TheEnforcer@Mar 15 2005, 09:22 AM
At least with the devil you know that you have to scrutinize everything brought to you whereas the catholic chucrh tries to portray itself as the end all be all of morality.
:)
An interesting quote to think on from my favorite movie.....


John Milton: Let me give you a little inside information about God. God likes to watch. He's a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift, and then what does He do, I swear for His own amusement, his own private, cosmic gag reel, He sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look but don't touch. Touch, but don't taste. Taste, don't swallow. Ahaha. And while you're jumpin' from one foot to the next, what is he doing? He's laughin' His sick, fuckin' ass off. He's a tight-ass. He's a sadist. He's an absentee landlord. Worship that? Never.
[/b][/quote]
That certainly ain't Milton's "paradise lost", what is it?

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by grimm+Mar 15 2005, 04:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (grimm @ Mar 15 2005, 04:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mike AI@Mar 15 2005, 09:43 AM
Think its bad now, wait till the movie comes out - then the great masses in the US wll beleive it.

Maybe they can get Michael Moore to produce and direct it or Oliver Stone!

:lol: :lol:
shouldn't listen to the catholic church so much. The book was fiction, but there is much evidence supporting the basic tenet of what it was written around.

The catholic church has for centuries quelled other beliefs through violence, stolen pagan symbols as its own, created an entire corporation out of faith. I would not trust the Church for anything. The latest scandals involving the relocation of sex offending priests should serve as a glaring reminger that the Catholic Church will do anything to protect its place. [/b][/quote]
It was going to be a perfect career for me...


But the buggery put me off.

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by grimm+Mar 15 2005, 07:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (grimm @ Mar 15 2005, 07:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by TheEnforcer@Mar 15 2005, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Mar 15 2005, 12:55 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-TheEnforcer@Mar 15 2005, 09:22 AM
At least with the devil you know that you have to scrutinize everything brought to you whereas the catholic chucrh tries to portray itself as the end all be all of morality.
:)
An interesting quote to think on from my favorite movie.....


John Milton: Let me give you a little inside information about God. God likes to watch. He's a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift, and then what does He do, I swear for His own amusement, his own private, cosmic gag reel, He sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look but don't touch. Touch, but don't taste. Taste, don't swallow. Ahaha. And while you're jumpin' from one foot to the next, what is he doing? He's laughin' His sick, fuckin' ass off. He's a tight-ass. He's a sadist. He's an absentee landlord. Worship that? Never.

That certainly ain't Milton's "paradise lost", what is it? [/b][/quote]
It's from the movie The Devils Advocate (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118971/) One of the best speeches/scenes I've ever seen in a movie.

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by slavdogg+Mar 15 2005, 05:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (slavdogg @ Mar 15 2005, 05:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-TheEnforcer@Mar 15 2005, 12:22 PM
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0145531/

At the very end of the movie they talk about what is believed to be additional gospels that were written that COMPLETELY undermine the role of the church in religion. They were found by the Dead sea and have been kept locked away by the catholic church and denouced as a fraud.

I trust the catholic church less than I would trust the devil. At least with the devil you know that you have to scrutinize everything brought to you whereas the catholic chucrh tries to portray itself as the end all be all of morality.
That was a good movie

btw, you're confusing Dead Sea Scrolls and gospels that were found in Egypt [/b][/quote]
I'm sure I am.. i'm going by memory. I used to own the movie but my wife has it since we seperated.

[grimm]

Originally posted by TheEnforcer+Mar 15 2005, 04:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TheEnforcer @ Mar 15 2005, 04:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by grimm@Mar 15 2005, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by TheEnforcer@Mar 15 2005, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Mar 15 2005, 12:55 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-TheEnforcer@Mar 15 2005, 09:22 AM
At least with the devil you know that you have to scrutinize everything brought to you whereas the catholic chucrh tries to portray itself as the end all be all of morality.
:)
An interesting quote to think on from my favorite movie.....


John Milton: Let me give you a little inside information about God. God likes to watch. He's a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift, and then what does He do, I swear for His own amusement, his own private, cosmic gag reel, He sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look but don't touch. Touch, but don't taste. Taste, don't swallow. Ahaha. And while you're jumpin' from one foot to the next, what is he doing? He's laughin' His sick, fuckin' ass off. He's a tight-ass. He's a sadist. He's an absentee landlord. Worship that? Never.

That certainly ain't Milton's "paradise lost", what is it?
It's from the movie The Devils Advocate (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118971/) One of the best speeches/scenes I've ever seen in a movie. [/b][/quote]
heh to each his own, i thought that movie was terrible. anything with Keanu Reeves in it for that matter

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by grimm+Mar 15 2005, 08:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (grimm @ Mar 15 2005, 08:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by TheEnforcer@Mar 15 2005, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by grimm@Mar 15 2005, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by TheEnforcer@Mar 15 2005, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Mar 15 2005, 12:55 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-TheEnforcer@Mar 15 2005, 09:22 AM
At least with the devil you know that you have to scrutinize everything brought to you whereas the catholic chucrh tries to portray itself as the end all be all of morality.
:)
An interesting quote to think on from my favorite movie.....


John Milton: Let me give you a little inside information about God. God likes to watch. He's a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift, and then what does He do, I swear for His own amusement, his own private, cosmic gag reel, He sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look but don't touch. Touch, but don't taste. Taste, don't swallow. Ahaha. And while you're jumpin' from one foot to the next, what is he doing? He's laughin' His sick, fuckin' ass off. He's a tight-ass. He's a sadist. He's an absentee landlord. Worship that? Never.

That certainly ain't Milton's "paradise lost", what is it?
It's from the movie The Devils Advocate (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118971/) One of the best speeches/scenes I've ever seen in a movie.
heh to each his own, i thought that movie was terrible. anything with Keanu Reeves in it for that matter [/b][/quote]
Oh.. I can understand not liking the movie overall, though I love it, but I have a hard time thinking anybody couldn't really enjoy those final confrontation scenes with quotes like the one above and these....

Kevin Lomax: "Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven", is that it?
John Milton: Why not? I'm here on the ground with my nose in it since the whole thing began. I've nurtured every sensation man's been inspired to have. I cared about what he wanted and I never judged him. Why? Because I never rejected him, in spite of all his imperfections. I'm a fan of man. I'm a humanist. Maybe the last humanist.


John Milton: Freedom, baby... is never having to say you're sorry.


John Milton: Guilt is like a bag of fuckin' bricks. All ya gotta do is set it down.

Kevin Lomax: What about love?
John Milton: Overrated. Biochemically no different than eating large quantities of chocolate.


John Milton: Free will. It's like butterfly wings: once touched, they never get off the ground. No, I only set the stage. You pull your own strings.


Kevin Lomax: God damnit, what did you do to my wife?
John Milton: Well, on a scale of one to ten... ten being the most depraved act of sexual theatre know to man... one being your average Friday night run-through at the Lomaxes' household... I'd say, not to be immodest, Mary Ann and I got it on at about... seven.


I mean......... in my opinion if there really was such a thing as Satan he would operate and talk exactly like Pacino did in this film. The devil doesn't "make" people do it. The entire subtelty of putting things in place allowing people to make their own decisions to lead to their own demise. Perfect example is his obsession with winning the murder case when he KNOWS his wife needs him. Satan even GIVES him the option of backing out but....


John Milton: It's your wife, man. She's sick, she needs you... she's got to come first. Ah, wait a minute, wait a minute. You mean the possibility of leaving this case has never even entered you mind?
Kevin Lomax: You know what scares me? I quit the case, she gets better... and I hate her for it. I don't want to resent her, John, I've got a winner here. I've got to nail this fucker down, do it fast, and put it behind me. Just get it done. Then - then. - put all my energy into her.
John Milton: I stand corrected.


That's a masterful job at illustrating that point.

[grimm]

Originally posted by TheEnforcer+Mar 15 2005, 04:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TheEnforcer @ Mar 15 2005, 04:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by grimm@Mar 15 2005, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by TheEnforcer@Mar 15 2005, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Mar 15 2005, 12:55 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-TheEnforcer@Mar 15 2005, 09:22 AM
At least with the devil you know that you have to scrutinize everything brought to you whereas the catholic chucrh tries to portray itself as the end all be all of morality.
:)
An interesting quote to think on from my favorite movie.....


John Milton: Let me give you a little inside information about God. God likes to watch. He's a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift, and then what does He do, I swear for His own amusement, his own private, cosmic gag reel, He sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look but don't touch. Touch, but don't taste. Taste, don't swallow. Ahaha. And while you're jumpin' from one foot to the next, what is he doing? He's laughin' His sick, fuckin' ass off. He's a tight-ass. He's a sadist. He's an absentee landlord. Worship that? Never.

That certainly ain't Milton's "paradise lost", what is it?
It's from the movie The Devils Advocate (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118971/) One of the best speeches/scenes I've ever seen in a movie. [/b][/quote]
which "devil" would that be?;)

out of the thousands of interpretations of variations of Revelations, which does he do a masterful job of portraying? Judeo-Christian? Literal?, Muslim? Mormon? Lutheran? Episcopalean? Baptist?:)

furthermore, beyond and before the bible, which literal or metaphysical interpretation would that accurately represent.. pre-christ pagan? norse? Native American indian? Greek? ;) wouldn't even fit into Hindu or Buddhism, and that is about half the world.;)


just curious.

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by grimm+Mar 15 2005, 10:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (grimm @ Mar 15 2005, 10:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by TheEnforcer@Mar 15 2005, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by grimm@Mar 15 2005, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by TheEnforcer@Mar 15 2005, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Mar 15 2005, 12:55 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-TheEnforcer@Mar 15 2005, 09:22 AM
At least with the devil you know that you have to scrutinize everything brought to you whereas the catholic chucrh tries to portray itself as the end all be all of morality.
:)
An interesting quote to think on from my favorite movie.....


John Milton: Let me give you a little inside information about God. God likes to watch. He's a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift, and then what does He do, I swear for His own amusement, his own private, cosmic gag reel, He sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look but don't touch. Touch, but don't taste. Taste, don't swallow. Ahaha. And while you're jumpin' from one foot to the next, what is he doing? He's laughin' His sick, fuckin' ass off. He's a tight-ass. He's a sadist. He's an absentee landlord. Worship that? Never.

That certainly ain't Milton's "paradise lost", what is it?
It's from the movie The Devils Advocate (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118971/) One of the best speeches/scenes I've ever seen in a movie.
which "devil" would that be?;)

out of the thousands of interpretations of variations of Revelations, which does he do a masterful job of portraying? Judeo-Christian? Literal?, Muslim? Mormon? Lutheran? Episcopalean? Baptist?:)

furthermore, beyond and before the bible, which literal or metaphysical interpretation would that accurately represent.. pre-christ pagan? norse? Native American indian? Greek? ;) wouldn't even fit into Hindu or Buddhism, and that is about half the world.;)


just curious. [/b][/quote]
My own personal idea of what the devil wold be like. :awinky: Since I think neither God nor Satan exist my concept is based on what I believe a truly effective Satan were to be if he existed.


A complex figure that isn't as simple as black/white and good/evil. One that knows how to push buttons and attack your weaknesses all the while letting you make the decisions along the way that doom yourself. One that knows how to shade and frame issues to best exploit one's personal weaknesses.

[grimm]

you know, in some belief systems, lucifer was cast to earth after spawning a war in heaven, along with other fallen angels. some are said to exist without form, taking the form of humans. This was God's punishment to lucifer, who was jealous of the attention God was paying to humans, thus sparking the conflict. What a fitting punishment, a thousand yards bound to earth;)

but thats just one way of looking at it. the important thing of any religious belief is faith, faith is the only thing that without, they all crumble. the characters and parables change with the stories and ages.

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by grimm@Mar 15 2005, 10:44 PM
you know, in some belief systems, lucifer was cast to earth after spawning a war in heaven, along with other fallen angels. some are said to exist without form, taking the form of humans. This was God's punishment to lucifer, who was jealous of the attention God was paying to humans, thus sparking the conflict. What a fitting punishment, a thousand yards bound to earth;)

but thats just one way of looking at it. the important thing of any religious belief is faith, faith is the only thing that without, they all crumble. the characters and parables change with the stories and ages.
That would explain a lot around here? I wonder what my name as an angel was? :P

In all seriousness I basically like the movie because it paints a complex Satan that isn't just the caricture an evile being making someone do bad. Nothing is more evil than setting someone up to make their own choices that damn them for all eternity and pointing out that they have no one to blame for it but themselves. saying something like "guilt is like a bag of bricks. All you have to do is set it ddown" and having someone to believe in that wholeheartedly leaves them open to so many possibilities it's scary.

[Nickatilynx]

I am known by many names....


LOL

[grimm]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Mar 15 2005, 08:46 PM
I am known by many names....


LOL
nick would be like azazel, a trickster spirit;)

TE... heres one view of the heirarchy of angels from a couple different sources.. notice how close to humans the theory of angels gets as civilization advances. points to a leader of men as having higher etherial qualities, eh? :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hierarchy_of_angels


Also note that the original heirarchy of angels would have (at least from this interpretation) put Lucifer as a Cherubim, not a lowly angel...his contact with humans would be minimal.

in fact the most popular fallen angels, like gabriel and michael and such, come from lower orders, further separating the heavens and the earth and making a good papal case for separation leaps of faith, methods of control by the catholic and other churches.;)

its all about indoctrination and $$$.

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by grimm+Mar 16 2005, 12:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (grimm @ Mar 16 2005, 12:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Mar 15 2005, 08:46 PM
I am known by many names....


LOL
nick would be like azazel, a trickster spirit;)

TE... heres one view of the heirarchy of angels from a couple different sources.. notice how close to humans the theory of angels gets as civilization advances. points to a leader of men as having higher etherial qualities, eh? :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hierarchy_of_angels


Also note that the original heirarchy of angels would have (at least from this interpretation) put Lucifer as a Cherubim, not a lowly angel...his contact with humans would be minimal.

in fact the most popular fallen angels, like gabriel and michael and such, come from lower orders, further separating the heavens and the earth and making a good papal case for separation leaps of faith, methods of control by the catholic and other churches.;)

its all about indoctrination and $$$. [/b][/quote]
Oh yeah. Religion has always been nothing but a tool to control others and get a hold of their money IMHO. I got so disgusted with my catholic church and their constant money grubbing I refused to go to my CCD classes and such when i was a freshmen in high school. The rest of my family believes but none go to the catholic church anymore.