Darwinism vs Intelligent Design

[TheEnforcer]

Click on link for full article.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2005Mar13.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32444-2005Mar13.html)

Battle on Teaching Evolution Sharpens

By Peter Slevin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, March 14, 2005; Page A01

WICHITA – Propelled by a polished strategy crafted by activists on America's political right, a battle is intensifying across the nation over how students are taught about the origins of life. Policymakers in 19 states are weighing proposals that question the science of evolution.

The proposals typically stop short of overturning evolution or introducing biblical accounts. Instead, they are calculated pleas to teach what advocates consider gaps in long-accepted Darwinian theory, with many relying on the idea of intelligent design, which posits the central role of a creator.

The growing trend has alarmed scientists and educators who consider it a masked effort to replace science with theology. But 80 years after the Scopes "monkey" trial -- in which a Tennessee man was prosecuted for violating state law by teaching evolution -- it is the anti-evolutionary scientists and Christian activists who say they are the ones being persecuted, by a liberal establishment.

They are acting now because they feel emboldened by the country's conservative currents and by President Bush, who angered many scientists and teachers by declaring that the jury is still out on evolution. Sharing strong convictions, deep pockets and impressive political credentials -- if not always the same goals -- the activists are building a sizable network.

In Seattle, the nonprofit Discovery Institute spends more than $1 million a year for research, polls and media pieces supporting intelligent design. In Fort Lauderdale, Christian evangelist James Kennedy established a Creation Studies Institute. In Virginia, Liberty University is sponsoring the Creation Mega Conference with a Kentucky group called Answers in Genesis, which raised $9 million in 2003.

At the state and local level, from South Carolina to California, these advocates are using lawsuits and school board debates to counter evolutionary theory. Alabama and Georgia legislators recently introduced bills to allow teachers to challenge evolutionary theory in the classroom. Ohio, Minnesota, New Mexico and Ohio have approved new rules allowing that. And a school board member in a Tennessee county wants stickers pasted on textbooks that say evolution remains unproven.

A prominent effort is underway in Kansas, where the state Board of Education intends to revise teaching standards. That would be progress, Southern Baptist minister Terry Fox said, because "most people in Kansas don't think we came from monkeys."

The movement is "steadily growing," said Eugenie C. Scott, executive director of the National Center for Science Education, which defends the teaching of evolution. "The energy level is new. The religious right has had an effect nationally. Now, by golly, they want to call in the chits."
================================================== ===

Ok. I'm on a "things in poltics that piss me off" kind of mood today and this is another thing. I don't have a problem with people questioning darwin at all and can understand people fighting over it. What REALLY pises me off though is the thinly veiled attempt to insert religious teachings by trying to force schools to teach intelligent design to kids. That pisses me off in a BIG way. This is nothing more than an attempt to make sure you teach people God does exist. It's an attempt to take a step-by-step approach to make sure religion is indoctrinated into kids.

[Almighty Colin]

http://www.linkification.com/linked/bush_evolution.jpg

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by Almighty Colin@Mar 14 2005, 01:07 PM
http://www.linkification.com/linked/bush_evolution.jpg
Hahahaha!! Too funny.

:P

[PornoDoggy]

If this pisses you off, you are a gawdless commie pinko heritic.

[SykkBoy]

there should be room for everyone's theory
theory of evolution
theory of the big bang
theory of God
theory of Bruce Campbell actually being a deity (my personal theory)

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Mar 14 2005, 01:22 PM
If this pisses you off, you are a gawdless commie pinko heritic.
Well I'm godless and a heretic but not a commie pinko. :P

[Elli]

Funny that Bush is trying to the States into a country full of zealots, just like the countries he's fighting and "liberating". In 50 years someone will have to come along and introduce the States to democracy.

[grimm]

Originally posted by TheEnforcer@Mar 14 2005, 08:24 AM
Click on link for full article.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2005Mar13.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32444-2005Mar13.html)

Battle on Teaching Evolution Sharpens

By Peter Slevin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, March 14, 2005; Page A01

WICHITA – Propelled by a polished strategy crafted by activists on America's political right, a battle is intensifying across the nation over how students are taught about the origins of life. Policymakers in 19 states are weighing proposals that question the science of evolution.

The proposals typically stop short of overturning evolution or introducing biblical accounts. Instead, they are calculated pleas to teach what advocates consider gaps in long-accepted Darwinian theory, with many relying on the idea of intelligent design, which posits the central role of a creator.

The growing trend has alarmed scientists and educators who consider it a masked effort to replace science with theology. But 80 years after the Scopes "monkey" trial -- in which a Tennessee man was prosecuted for violating state law by teaching evolution -- it is the anti-evolutionary scientists and Christian activists who say they are the ones being persecuted, by a liberal establishment.

They are acting now because they feel emboldened by the country's conservative currents and by President Bush, who angered many scientists and teachers by declaring that the jury is still out on evolution. Sharing strong convictions, deep pockets and impressive political credentials -- if not always the same goals -- the activists are building a sizable network.

In Seattle, the nonprofit Discovery Institute spends more than $1 million a year for research, polls and media pieces supporting intelligent design. In Fort Lauderdale, Christian evangelist James Kennedy established a Creation Studies Institute. In Virginia, Liberty University is sponsoring the Creation Mega Conference with a Kentucky group called Answers in Genesis, which raised $9 million in 2003.

At the state and local level, from South Carolina to California, these advocates are using lawsuits and school board debates to counter evolutionary theory. Alabama and Georgia legislators recently introduced bills to allow teachers to challenge evolutionary theory in the classroom. Ohio, Minnesota, New Mexico and Ohio have approved new rules allowing that. And a school board member in a Tennessee county wants stickers pasted on textbooks that say evolution remains unproven.

A prominent effort is underway in Kansas, where the state Board of Education intends to revise teaching standards. That would be progress, Southern Baptist minister Terry Fox said, because "most people in Kansas don't think we came from monkeys."

The movement is "steadily growing," said Eugenie C. Scott, executive director of the National Center for Science Education, which defends the teaching of evolution. "The energy level is new. The religious right has had an effect nationally. Now, by golly, they want to call in the chits."
================================================== ===

Ok. I'm on a "things in poltics that piss me off" kind of mood today and this is another thing. I don't have a problem with people questioning darwin at all and can understand people fighting over it. What REALLY pises me off though is the thinly veiled attempt to insert religious teachings by trying to force schools to teach intelligent design to kids. That pisses me off in a BIG way. This is nothing more than an attempt to make sure you teach people God does exist. It's an attempt to take a step-by-step approach to make sure religion is indoctrinated into kids.
In Ohio, they are trying to push through a "Students Bill of Rights" which would legislate out teaching of evolution, or creationism at every level of state funded school.. elementary through university. no lie.

[Dravyk]

Originally posted by Elli@Mar 14 2005, 03:31 PM
Funny that Bush is trying to the States into a country full of zealots, just like the countries he's fighting and "liberating". In 50 years someone will have to come along and introduce the States to democracy.
Well said, Elli!

In Ohio, they are trying to push through a "Students Bill of Rights" which would legislate out teaching of evolution, or creationism at every level of state funded school.. elementary through university. no lie
Er, let me get this straight, Grimm. They won't teach either of them?

So "Students Bill of Rights" would include "the right to remain ignorant" at an educational institution?! Well, that's .... novel!

[grimm]

Originally posted by Dravyk+Mar 14 2005, 01:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dravyk @ Mar 14 2005, 01:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Elli@Mar 14 2005, 03:31 PM
Funny that Bush is trying to the States into a country full of zealots, just like the countries he's fighting and "liberating". In 50 years someone will have to come along and introduce the States to democracy.
Well said, Elli!

In Ohio, they are trying to push through a "Students Bill of Rights" which would legislate out teaching of evolution, or creationism at every level of state funded school.. elementary through university. no lie
Er, let me get this straight, Grimm. They won't teach either of them?

So "Students Bill of Rights" would include "the right to remain ignorant" at an educational institution?! Well, that's .... novel! [/b][/quote]
yep, thats the funny part, evidently some students feel that their grades are suffering because professors push a certain way of thinking (namely evolution) in university classes. and that said students dont feel comfortable stating their own beliefs in an academic environment, so they petitioned the state to established some sort of ruleset. so of course, the conservative state of Ohio went overboard. If there cannot exist an academic harmony of both schools of thought, then it is to be wiped off of the curriculum.

the main complainant in this case is a sophmore female student at Otterbein College in central ohio. she was raised to believe in Genesis as the beginning of the universe and humanity, and felt her grades in certain classes suffered because she couldn't buy into the whole Darwin thing enough to pass that part of the classes in question.

It raises two alarms.. professors should not be teaching one without the availability of the other (Depending on the class of course.. if it is biology and you are talking about differences in species, well its bound to come up). and more importantly, governments should not be mandating any sort of education anywhere. its ridiculous. Ohio may be a conservative state, but it is progressive in every other area.

[TheEnforcer]

If you haven't learned to speak up for yourself and beliefs and ask questions by the time you are 18 you are likely not going to amount to anything unless you are an extremely late bloomer.

Hell, I took feminist philosophy one semester with a professor who was very much into feminism, and other causes like being a vegitarian, and the class started out with 12 guys and by the time it was done me and my best friend were the only two guys left in the class. :lol: There wasn't a class that went by where we didn't challenege the professor and other students in some way. Had her for a number of different phlosophy courses and ALWAYS challeneged and questioned her. She often times would use me or my friend to get debates going in class becaue whether it was feiminism, drugs, vegtraiianism, or whatever she could always count on us to take a stand or play devil's advocate for a position we didn't believe in but nobody else would want to defend. Drives me nuts when I haear about how students are "afraid" to speak up in class. Grow a set and get your money's worth and challenege and question your professors. It's what they get paid for.

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by grimm@Mar 14 2005, 04:54 PM

the main complainant in this case is a sophmore female student at Otterbein College in central ohio. she was raised to believe in Genesis as the beginning of the universe and humanity, and felt her grades in certain classes suffered because she couldn't buy into the whole Darwin thing enough to pass that part of the classes in question.


She doesn't have to "buy" into it. Only learn what the concept is about. You don't have to "Buy" into any religion in a religious studies course to understand the information that is taught to you. Evolution is no different.

[sarettah]

Well, I gave a phone call to God to see what IT thought about all this and IT had just one word to say and that was...........





Ribbit :gbounce:











(he really is a frog. I know for sure, without doubt, definitely, Trust Me !! (I think))

[Dravyk]

Grimm, you have to love the precedent in that. I wonder how long it will take other kids to come up with other ways to skip education?

- I was taught history is written by the winners, if you won't also teach history by the losers ....

- Well, I was raised at home in non-Euclidean math, if they won't teach both ...

- Ohh, I was raised at home in Pakistani language, if they can't teach in my language too, they can't teach in English either.

Where does it stop?! .... Legislative morons!

[grimm]

Originally posted by Dravyk@Mar 14 2005, 06:17 PM
Grimm, you have to love the precedent in that. I wonder how long it will take other kids to come up with other ways to skip education?

- I was taught history is written by the winners, if you won't also teach history by the losers ....

- Well, I was raised at home in non-Euclidean math, if they won't teach both ...

- Ohh, I was raised at home in Pakistani language, if they can't teach in my language too, they can't teach in English either.

Where does it stop?! .... Legislative morons!
just like every other right wing neocon agenda that strays a little far to the right, it wont make it into law, and if it does, the state supreme court would strike it down upon immediate appeal.


there are just some things you cannot and should not legislate. but then again, we said that about personal privacy and property.

[grimm]

we have to remember, they are OUR legislative morons. we put them there.

people in this country are willing to write away every personal freedom as long as they don;t have to raise their own children or see men marrying men.

this is a stupid country, by and large. an ignorant one. we see it in every form, every day, everybody. look at everyone you know, one thing they believe in is so fundamentally ignorant, that you would choose to ignore it. it exists in all of us, and it is up to political spinners to find that button and jump up and down on it.

[Dravyk]

Originally posted by grimm@Mar 15 2005, 01:04 AM
we have to remember, they are OUR legislative morons. we put them there.
Point taken though .... (Thankfully!) I want it on the record: I don't live in Ohio. :)

Jokes a side ... and we've all had this ... you live in a state with some embarrassingly moronic state assemblymen. Problem is, everyone gets voted in from their own area. You can't change it if you wanted.

Go smaller, my city (or your city, your county, town) ... you have one (at least) moron in there ... problem is, he legislates like an idiot, has cronies on the council, but he's damned good to his constuiency, that little part of the city, or county ... he'll be in there forever.

Everyone knows he an idiot. But the people from the little area he reprsents either a) don't think he's an idiot or B) they do, but they get their streets cleaned, street lights changed, a new police precinct and they won't kick him out until he dies.

As Tip O'Neill said "All politics is local."