Ireland added to Bush's axis of evil.....

[sarettah]

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/0....sinnfein.reut/ (http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/03/09/ireland.sinnfein.reut/)

U.S.: IRA must disband now
Demand follows group's offer to shoot Catholic man's killers
Wednesday, March 9, 2005 Posted: 1156 GMT (1956 HKT)

BELFAST, Northern Ireland (Reuters) -- The United States has demanded that the IRA disband after the guerrilla group's astonishing offer to shoot the killers of a murdered Northern Ireland Catholic man.

"It's time for the IRA to go out of business," U.S. special envoy Mitchell Reiss said Wednesday.

................................................

[Titan]

haha good fucking luck to them getting them sobs to disband

besides the fact that it was a catholic killed by a protestant faction means its anti republican and thats why they offerered to off the killers and also this is a big deal right now in ireland over this mans death

[chodadog]

The murder of McCartney was absolutely fucked up. The IRA should seriously be handing those involved over to the cops. It's the best thing they could do for the republican movement. Keeping them out of sight is just going to cause more political fallout for Sinn Fein. It'd be great if the family had no problem with the IRA just offing these guys, though. It's also important to remember that this was not an IRA sanctioned killing. This was just some thugs that happened to be in the IRA. It's also important to remember that by the time McCartney and Devine had been taken out and killed, a senior IRA man had already been rushed to hospital with stab wounds. So it's clear that this was not as one sided as the media would have you believe.

I've been following recent developments in Ireland very closely since the talks at Leeds Castle last year. I simply can't believe how irresponsible the media and the police have been over there.

Take the offer made by the IRA last year to decomission completely. Absolutely huge gesture. Risked alienating grassroots republicans across the island. Same conditions as all the previous partial decomissioning procedures. Representatives from churches on either side of the fence would be present to witness the destruction of the weapons. Now, before that offer was made, the possibility of it had already been discussed. Ian Paisley (head of the DUP; democratic unionist party) demanded publically that the IRA needed to be humiliated with photographs of their defeat. The DUP are a rejectionist party; they don't agree with the Good Friday Agreement and ultimately wish it would be killed off. He knew full well that the IRA would never allow themselves to be humiliated by providing photos because it would basically say that they "lost" the war if they allowed it to happen. You can't really understand why that is important unless you know the history of the troubles. But the point is, there's no way it would happen. Sinn Fein let the Dublin and British government know that in no uncertain terms.

But despite that, the two governments didn't tell the DUP to take the issue of photographs off of the table. The IRA then made the offer, unionists accepted on the condition of photographs. The IRA wouldn't budge, unionists wouldn't budge. To the IRA, it was the last proverbial straw on the camel's back. Unionists might say the same thing, but they've always agreed to the previous conditions. To me, it's clear their goal was to avoid a power sharing government with Sinn Fein, which is what would have happened had the deal been accepted.

So of course, the IRA cops the blame because they always do in the media. The pandering to the unionist agenda in the media over there is sickening.

Then the northern bank robbery happens shortly after the talks fell through. Weeks pass by before the police chief Hugh Orde confirms what everyone is already suspecting; the IRA pulled off the heist. In a press conference, he states that it is his opinion that the IRA committed the robbery. Not a single shred of evidence is presented to back up this opinion, but that doesn't matter, the media is quickly reporting that the IRA is guilty. Trial by media has started. The political fallout that was to come from this conference was so goddamn obvious. Everyone knew within minutes of hearing it that it would absolutely fuck up the peace process for at least another 6 months.

So we've gone from the IRA making an offer to decomission and the highest point of the peace process, to a peace process in tatters and the IRA taking the offer of decomissioning off the table (which is basically just a bargaining tactic for them). Sinn Fein's stormont allowances have been taken away. I believe unionists are also trying to get their EU allowances cut, but i don't think that's going to happen.

Then we've got the Taoiseach (Irish PM, basically) coming out and declaring that Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness knew prior to the robbery that the IRA was going to do it. Then we've got Michael McDowell (Irish Justice Minister) declaring that not only did Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness know about the robbery in advance, but they sit on the 7 man IRA army council). Now, the taoiseach claims his information about Gerry and Martin's involvement comes directly from PSNI (Police Service of Northern Ireland; basically the RUC rebadged in an attempt to improve nationalist opinion toward the police). Huge Order said a few weeks later that he had no idea if the Sinn Fein leaders knew anything about or were involved in the robbery. He also said he had no idea if they were on the IRA army council. So clearly the Dublin governement are talking shit. Why? Probably because they're worried about Sinn Fein's recent surge in popularity over the last 3 or 4 years and the prospect that they would be going into a coalittion with Fine Gael (the opposition party) that would almost certainly beat Fianna Fail (the current government) in the next election. His motive is clear. And they have the nerve to call themselves the republican party.

Then the McCartney killing happens. Strange how unionists suddenly care about a working class catholic being killed by members of the IRA. They certainly didn't give a shit about 20 IRA sanctioned killings of catholics and nationalists since the good friday agreement. Why jump on this one? Political points. They're using the murder of this man to their own political benefit and it's so very transparent. Their support for the McCartney sisters is self serving and hollow.

And then we have Blair apologising for the false imprisonment of the Guildford 4. About 15 years too late. I believe Blair's apology was genuine, because he was actually one of the people who campaigned for their release when he was a young MP many years ago. But the timing reeks of political oppurtunism.

Every party has turned on Sinn Fein. The tories and labour from the British Government. Fianna Fail and Fine Gael from the 26 counties. The DUP, UUP and even the SDLP (The other nationalist party of the north. Their motive is about as obvious as Fianna Fail's; they're about one more election from dying out completely if they don't play their cards right). The media has attacked Sinn Fein like never before. Even more so than prior to the cease fire in 1994. This level of attack and pressure is unprecedented for Sinn Fein. And what effect has it had? Despite all their effort, Sinn Fein's popularity has only dropped 2 points, and that won't last. The only real damage that's happened has been public opinion of Gerry Adams, which has fallen significantly. But i believe that'll all change once the IRA deals with the killers of McCartney, whether they just off the bastards or hand them over to the cops.

It's funny that so far, the only money thas has been conclusively linked to the robbery was found in a police recreation/sports club. It was also alarming to see how quickly it was dismissed as a setup by the IRA to distract police. I mean, that wouldn't surprise me. But goddamn, if that money had been found in a Sinn Fein office, the shit would have hit the fan in a big way.

Despite all the best efforts of all these people, by the time all of this is over, Sinn Fein will come out in a better position than before all this happened. If they are banned from governement for a year, voters will turn out in huge numbers once they're back, and unionists will concede massive ground to Sinn Fein. If they do nothing, Sinn Fein's electorate will continue to grow and unionists will conede some ground to Sinn Fein. Ths is something even unionists have known for quite a few years now. I think they were just hoping that attacks of this level would be enough to halt the progress, but i think they're just going to motivate nationalists and republicans to get off their asses and go to the polls even more so. The fact that Sinn Fein's support has only slightly lessened must be worrying unionists in a huge way right now.

I have no illusions about the IRA. I certainly used to, though. I was rather naive about it all to be honest. They were terrorists before the ceasefire. Terrorism was the only bargaining chip the Irish have ever had against the British since the troubles started. You can see what happened when nationalists tried to get what they wanted through peaceful means (Bloody Sunday).

Now, the existance of the IRA's weapons is the only bargainning chip they have. And once they're destroyed, the existance of the IRA itself will be all they have left for leverage.

Basically, the IRA needs to exist until the power sharing executive is reestablished in northern Ireland and can't be shut down on baseless accusations by unionists like it was last time. The IRA needs to exist until nationalists no longer require a bargainning chip and are actually in a position where they have a real say in what goes on.

It's so surreal to sit back and think to yourself how differently all of this would be had Paisley accepted the IRA's offer to disarm.

[chodadog]

Originally posted by Titan@Mar 9 2005, 08:46 AM
haha good fucking luck to them getting them sobs to disband

besides the fact that it was a catholic killed by a protestant faction means its anti republican and thats why they offerered to off the killers and also this is a big deal right now in ireland over this mans death
It wasn't protestants that killed Robert McCartney. It was members of the IRA; catholics.

And this is one of the problems in the media. Whenever a member of the IRA does something wrong, the IRA itself cops the blame as if it were some kind of IRA sanctioned operation. Like i said in my post above, and jesus, i just realised how long my post was, there have been something like 20 IRA sanctioned killings of catholics since the good friday agreement was implemented... or since the ceasefire.. i can't remember exactly.. but no unionist or protestant ever gave a flying fuck about those. They jumped on this one to exploit it it's full potential in light of the northern bank raid.

[Nickatilynx]

I very stupidly ,once, in Belfast, not knowing any better, was sitting in a pub when someone came up and said "For the cause" and put a tin under my nose.

I of course said "Fuck off"

My companions went white....then...red...then blue...

Fortunately I got away with it ,I think they explained I was retarded



In all seriousness , this should have been done years ago. Every dumb bastard in Boston was having dinners etc supporting them.

I mean , inviting Adams over....

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Mar 9 2005, 12:17 PM
I very stupidly ,once, in Belfast, not knowing any better, was sitting in a pub when someone came up and said "For the cause" and put a tin under my nose.

I of course said "Fuck off"

My companions went white....then...red...then blue...

Fortunately I got away with it ,I think they explained I was retarded



In all seriousness , this should have been done years ago. Every dumb bastard in Boston was having dinners etc supporting them.

I mean , inviting Adams over....
Yikes!! How fast did you guys get out of there? :o

[Nickatilynx]

Actually we talked our way out of it. best we could , gave a folding donation

And then waited lol. Didn't want to leave til they had moved on.


I like walking...

[TheEnforcer]

Damn..... One of those moments in life where you look back and realize just how lucky you were!!

[kath]

You know I've worked with bastards like the US Government before... always sticking their nose in where it's not needed, worrying about what everyone else is doing and not minding their own business or getting their own work done...

We've got enough to fix here without thinking that we have the power - or the RIGHT - to meddle in and fix things elsewhere.

Sheesh! :rolleyes:

[Lee]

I hope the U.S does 'liberate' Ireland.

Maybe then ill be able to get a 'good' pint of Caffreys or Guiness LOL

[chodadog]

Originally posted by Lee@Mar 9 2005, 12:27 PM
I hope the U.S does 'liberate' Ireland.

Maybe then ill be able to get a 'good' pint of Caffreys or Guiness LOL
Guinness is owned by an English company now. That's just not right. Not right at all. :P

[Lee]

Originally posted by chodadog+Mar 9 2005, 12:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (chodadog @ Mar 9 2005, 12:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Lee@Mar 9 2005, 12:27 PM
I hope the U.S does 'liberate' Ireland.

Maybe then ill be able to get a 'good' pint of Caffreys or Guiness LOL
Guinness is owned by an English company now. That's just not right. Not right at all. :P [/b][/quote]
Yeah i think its owned by Bass now isnt it?

Went to one of our locals here a couple of nights ago and ordered a 'pint' they looked at me like i have 3 heads, ended up asking for a 22oz 'beer' and they knew what i wanted LOL

[chodadog]

I think they're owned by a company called Diageo. Guinness merged with GrandMet and that was how Diageo came about. I'm preeeeeeeetty sure Diageo is an English company. They also own Baileys and Smirinoff and quite a few brands.

[chodadog]

http://www.diageo.com

Smirinoff
Johnnie Walker
Guinness
Baileys
J&B
Captain Morgan
Cuervo
Tanqueray

Damn.

[Lee]

Damn they own a lot of the stuff i drink LOL

I think id better take some shares out with them LOL

[urb]

I don't know where half of you guys are from. But it's nice to see how well informed you are. :)

[nickdark]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Mar 9 2005, 09:17 AM

In all seriousness , this should have been done years ago. Every dumb bastard in Boston was having dinners etc supporting them.

I mean , inviting Adams over....
Its about time that was brought up..Boston and NY supported those scum ( along with Gaddafi) for years...all that NORAID bollocks about the old country and the cause...armchair patriots...cunts , the lot of em.

Perhaps the department of homeland security would care to investigate the supporters of terrorism in the USA..including that fat fuck Kennedy ..you know the one who managed to remember the injustices of.. blah blah blah.. but forgot his secretary couldnt swim.

I remember when people shit themselves every time a bag was left on a train or bus..and still do..we are well trained though :(

[gonzo]

FREE IRELAND!!!

[Candice]

no..not ireland...such a beautiful country and Bush will include it...that's not right.

[urb]

Stephen: Him? That can't be William Wallace. I'm prettier than this man. Alright Father, I'll ask him. If I risk my neck for you, will I get a chance to kill Englishmen?

Hamish: Is your father a ghost or do you converse with the Almighty?

Stephen: In order to find his equal, an Irishman is forced to talk to God. Yes, Father. The Almighty says don't change the subject; just answer the fooking question.

. . .

Stephen: Excellent. Stephen is my name. I'm the most wanted man on my island, except I'm not on my island, of coarse. Mores the pity.

Hamish: Your island? You mean Ireland.

Stephen: Yeah. It's mine.

[chodadog]

The thing i find most amusing about the reaction to this killing is fake concern shown by unionists and the media. Since the ceasfire, the IRA has killed over 20 catholics. Killings range from internal IRA matters, killing drug dealers and other criminals, and a few cases of somene who's crossed paths with a psychotic senior IRA man.

The media has never cared before, and it's obvious to me that they're only jumping on this to exploit it to it's full political advantage. Had the northern bank robbery not happened, nobody besides those in the short strand would have ever heard the name Robert McCartney. Sadly, his death would have just been accepted and life would have moved on. I think that would have been wrong, i think the IRA should deal with these people by killing them or by tying the fuckers up and dumping them outside a cop shop.

It's pretty funny that loyalist and protestant politicians are so concerned with the death of a working class catholic man when they've completely ignored the deaths of far more protestant and loyalist people at the hands of the UDA and UVF (unionist paramilitaries).

Last year alone, unionists carried out 89 shootings, compared to 23 by republicans. 75 assaults compared to 41. Furthermore, the unionist paramilitaries have destroyed no weapons at all (the IRA has at least decomissioned some weapons, and had offered to put the rest out of action also), and are just as involved in drugs and racketeering as the IRA is. Possibly even more so. Trust me, you don't want to be living on the shankhill. But who kicks up a stink about these bastards? Certainly not the people who should care, because there's no political gain for doing so.

I'm not saying that it's wrong for his sisters and his fiancee to speak out against the IRA. I think what they're doing is great. The IRA has lost it's way to some extent and there are a lot of rogue members who seem to think they own the place. That shit needs to be addressed. But it sickens me to see what is clearly oppurtunistic "concern" for the McCartney family and the Short Strand community at large. They've never cared before, and they certainly don't care now.

[chodadog]

Interesting little update about just how this is affecting Sinn Fein in the eyes of voters. The first election since all the shit hit the fan. Council by-elections in Meath. Sinn Fein's candidate Joe Reilly's vote increased from 9% in 2002 to 13% this year. Can't stop the shinners. Although i do think it would have been at least 15% had all this stuff not occured.

;)