Reflections on Jamaica. What's wrong with us?

[Almighty Colin]

I think we've lost something in the modern western first world. Jamaicans are much friendlier than Americans or Europeans. Everywhere I went, locals started conversations with me. This was not just true in the tourist areas. Some of us took a 1 1/2 hour ride into the mountains and walked up the falls. We met many locals along the way at roadside stands selling jerk chicken, convenience items and the ever ubiquitous ganja shack. Everyone everywhere was much friendlier and open in starting conversations - even if it was as simple as a "yeah, man". People seemed to be genuinely happier too. After I arrived back in the US I was standing next to a lady waiting for an elevator to pick up our cars. I almost started a conversation with her and then realized I was back in the USA. Shut up, get in and stare at the LED that tells us what floor we are on. Can I get off now?

Jamaicans spend a lot of time outdoors. You see people standing or sitting outside their homes and they seem to be more in contact with their neighbors than we are. There's also more of a barter society which might also contribute to the increased contact and friendliness with neighbors. We in the first world have an impersonal trip to a large grocery store or mall where many of us can't even be bothered to say hello to the cashier.

Maybe part of it is that so many Jamaicans aren't trying to be better than their neighbors. "One World". "Respect, man".

No one in Jamaica is in a hurry either. Slavik and I went to a jerk chicken shack on the beach at 1pm. There were just a few other customers. We didn't leave until 3pm. We received our chicken about 2:45, I think. After a few days you actually start to relax. There's always a nagging feeling that you are wasting time though. Jamaica is in a different time zone. Slow Standard Time.

We first worlders used to have friendlier relations with our neighbors. It used to be that when you moved into a new neighborhood that your neighbors would come greet you and make you feel at home - maybe even bake you an apple pie. Many of us now only wave at our neighbors on our way to work. That's as friendly as we get. What happened? Now we have enough in-home entertainment and conveniences that we don't need our neighbors. Neither for leisure nor out of necessity.

Well, at least most of us have large indoor living spaces, air conditioners and big screen TVs.

[Meat]

Colin i dont think thats just refelection of the States, it happens everywhere i think, the only places it dont happen is tourism orientated areas like Negril:)

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Almighty Colin@Feb 22 2005, 07:49 AM
Jamaicans are much friendlier than Americans or Europeans.
Don't take it personal, Colin,
but for some reason you reminded me an old Arab story.

There was a blind man, who was blind since the day he was born.

He prayed Allah every day and one day Allah granted him his wish,
he made him see, but only for 5 seconds.

When blind man got his vision, he saw a donkey and went blind back again.

From that moment on,
every time somebody was telling how beautiful something was,
the blind man asked:
"is it as beautiful as donkey"?

The story is over 1000 years old......

[Meat]

LOL good story Serge:)

[Meat]

CRIME: Crime, including violent crime, is a serious problem in Jamaica, particularly in Kingston. While the vast majority of crimes occur in impoverished areas, the violence is not confined. The primary criminal concern of a tourist is being a victim of theft. In several cases, armed robberies of Americans have turned violent when the victims resisted handing over valuables. Crime is exacerbated by the fact that police are understaffed and ineffective. Therefore, tourists should take their own precautions and always pay extra attention to their surroundings when traveling, exercise care when walking outside after dark, and should always avoid areas known for high crime rates. As a general rule, valuables should not be left unattended, including in hotel rooms and on the beach. Care should be taken when carrying high value items such as cameras, or when wearing expensive jewelry on the street. Women's handbags should be zipped and held close to the body. Men should carry wallets in their front pants pocket. Large amounts of cash should always be handled discreetly.


http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1147.html

[Jesse_DD]

"Jamaicans spend a lot of time outdoors."

That is what no air conditioning and 90 degree weather will do :awinky:

(But, I get your point)

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Meat@Feb 22 2005, 07:57 AM
Colin i dont think thats just refelection of the States, it happens everywhere i think, the only places it dont happen is tourism orientated areas like Negril:)
Meat, you were skim-reading.

This was not just true in the tourist areas.

Jamaicans are much friendlier than Americans or Europeans.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Meat@Feb 22 2005, 08:32 AM
CRIME: Crime, including violent crime, is a serious problem in Jamaica, particularly in Kingston. While the vast majority of crimes occur in impoverished areas, the violence is not confined. The primary criminal concern of a tourist is being a victim of theft. In several cases, armed robberies of Americans have turned violent when the victims resisted handing over valuables. Crime is exacerbated by the fact that police are understaffed and ineffective. Therefore, tourists should take their own precautions and always pay extra attention to their surroundings when traveling, exercise care when walking outside after dark, and should always avoid areas known for high crime rates. As a general rule, valuables should not be left unattended, including in hotel rooms and on the beach. Care should be taken when carrying high value items such as cameras, or when wearing expensive jewelry on the street. Women's handbags should be zipped and held close to the body. Men should carry wallets in their front pants pocket. Large amounts of cash should always be handled discreetly.


http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1147.html
Kingston is supposed to be bad.

I walked everywhere in Negril - at night, by myself, etc. Felt really safe and met a lot of locals along the way. Seemed safer than a lot of Miami areas I've been to (Little Haiti and Little Havana). So many people warned me to be careful even in Negril. My experience was completely the opposite. I would be more concerned in New York or Chicago.

[Meat]

negrils income comes from Tourism, any country in the world that needs tourism to prosper "understands" the need to be nice to tourists, its when you get out of the tourist area that you get a true reflection of where you are and what the people are like.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Winetalk.com+Feb 22 2005, 08:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Winetalk.com @ Feb 22 2005, 08:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Almighty Colin@Feb 22 2005, 07:49 AM
Jamaicans are much friendlier than Americans or Europeans.
Don't take it personal, Colin,
but for some reason you reminded me an old Arab story.

There was a blind man, who was blind since the day he was born.

He prayed Allah every day and one day Allah granted him his wish,
he made him see, but only for 5 seconds.

When blind man got his vision, he saw a donkey and went blind back again.

From that moment on,
every time somebody was telling how beautiful something was,
the blind man asked:
"is it as beautiful as donkey"?

The story is over 1000 years old...... [/b][/quote]
It was a nice 5 seconds.

I don't know about any donkeys. We bought a goat for $150 and tried to bring it into the hotel to shave it. They don't want us back at that hotel again.

"Nothing good can come from messing with a goat, man".

True story

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Meat@Feb 22 2005, 08:55 AM
negrils income comes from Tourism, any country in the world that needs tourism to prosper "understands" the need to be nice to tourists, its when you get out of the tourist area that you get a true reflection of where you are and what the people are like.
Meat,

You keep talking about tourist areas and Negril. I've said three times now we didn't just stay in Negril and visit tourist areas. We travelled maybe 80 miles from Negril into the mountains and met many locals in small towns along the way. They were even friendlier than in Negril. Not just shop-owners but everyday people out and about in small towns with nothing to directly gain from being friendly.

Here in the US we've had a change in the past century. This has also happened elsewhere in the world, no doubt. We've become a less neighborly society. People don't know their neighbors in the way that they used to. It's a well-documented cultural phenomenon. Some good books that include analysis of the subject are "Bowling Alone" by Robert Putnam and "The Death and Life of Great American Cities" by Jane Jacobs. Also some of Francis Fukuyama's work is very good. These authors all tackle the subject from different viewpoints. Jacobs discusses urbanization and its negative effects on community. Fukuyama discusses large-scale effects in society such as social capital. Putnam discusses the fall of community involvement as a result of more full-time employees, the rise of television and mass media and its effects. His book is a great read on the subject. I think to reduce all of this to "tourism" is absurd.

I used to live in orlando. There's a LOT of tourist areas and the people that live in those areas are NOWHERE NEAR as friendly and talkative as Jamaicans. There's a cultural difference. I don't think the answer in Jamaica is to compare tourist areas with non-tourist areas. That was not my experience at all. I'd say it is to compare a large urban overcrowded area with rural and small-town living combined with cultural differences as mentioned above. I would guess that some of the same changes that the above authors discuss at length are no doubt taking place in the urban sprawl of Kingston too.

[Sharpie]

That's how I feel about Cancun.... I have never met so many polite people. The service was laid back, but still good.

Even in the flea markets there is no begging (I did experience that in Negril) They all worked at one liners to get you in their store - but, would always close with - "have a good afternoon"..... or something similiar. Their English is a little better there too. The open sale & use of drugs on the beaches bothered me in Negril. No wonder they are so happy:-) But, of course if you are into that - I suppose it's heaven! As a woman alone - I did not feel safe when being approached by strangers - but otherwise it was a beautiful paradise, and I was very comfortable with the atmosphere. (as long as you put any type of schedule behind you)

[Cleo]

Excessive consumption of Red Stripe beer

[Peaches]

I grew up in the South - I have to say most of us are friendly, a wee bit too talkative and we'd be more than happy to sit down and have a nice big glass of sweet iced tea with you :)

I remember my first trip to NYC and I was amazed at the rudeness. With more and more Yankees infiltrating our friendly areas (sorry Vooman :P ) I've really noticed people not being as friendly in ATL as they used to be. My girlfriend moved to Chicago about 15 years ago and always got her "friendly fix" when she came home. A few years ago she noticed the change :(

That's one of the reasons I moved to the hills - we're all still nice up here and I can't remember the last time I went to a store, grocery, pharmacy, etc. and didn't have a nice conversation with someone, had the door opened for me, waved to if I let them into traffic, etc.

It all depends on where you are B)

[Phoenix]

a buddy of mine got mugged in jamaica...he went outside to buy some weed for everyone...went into the forest a bit, and they made him strip..he walked back into the bar in just his boxers..lol

[DrGuile]

Here a little story that happened to me that I love....



It was a sunday afternoon last summer, 3-4pm, something like that...

Im coming back from a friend's place who lives about 50 miles away. A minute of two after getting on the highway, all the cars come to a dead stop... As far as I can see, the cars are stopped and not moving, or inching....

So we stop and wait a couple minutes, but since Im on my motorcycle, I decide to use the shoulder and go see what's happening up front.

Its a beautiful summer days, 75F, sunny.... But its still a death-jam on the highway....

Feel free to imagine this scene in NYC or on a LA highway.... (gun shots, horns, people trying to force their way through)....

But no, when slowly driving past all the car(a few miles), it was one of the most eerily beautiful scene I had ever seen... People were out of their car chatting with each others, smiling... Kids were playing in the grass across the ditch, I saw some people meditating. It really felt like one huge picnic with 100's of people who didnt know they were invited but making the most of it.... No yelling, no people stressing in there car eating the steering wheel... Just a wonderful happy and friendly atmosphere...

It might sound stupid, but thinking about that really gives me hope for humankind.... And its one of the reason I love Québec.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by DrGuile@Feb 22 2005, 08:11 AM
Here a little story that happened to me that I love....



It was a sunday afternoon last summer, 3-4pm, something like that...

Im coming back from a friend's place who lives about 50 miles away. A minute of two after getting on the highway, all the cars come to a dead stop... As far as I can see, the cars are stopped and not moving, or inching....

So we stop and wait a couple minutes, but since Im on my motorcycle, I decide to use the shoulder and go see what's happening up front.

Its a beautiful summer days, 75F, sunny.... But its still a death-jam on the highway....

Feel free to imagine this scene in NYC or on a LA highway.... (gun shots, horns, people trying to force their way through)....

But no, when slowly driving past all the car(a few miles), it was one of the most eerily beautiful scene I had ever seen... People were out of their car chatting with each others, smiling... Kids were playing in the grass across the ditch, I saw some people meditating. It really felt like one huge picnic with 100's of people who didnt know they were invited but making the most of it.... No yelling, no people stressing in there car eating the steering wheel... Just a wonderful happy and friendly atmosphere...

It might sound stupid, but thinking about that really gives me hope for humankind.... And its one of the reason I love Québec.
And hence why I'll see you in the early summer. :)

Awesome story.

May I take the liberty of correcting one matter of fact.

Where Dr.Guile says "motorcycle" please read "scooter".

He tells everyone he rides a motorcycle to appear cool. ;-)))

[DrGuile]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Feb 22 2005, 12:17 PM
He tells everyone he rides a motorcycle to appear cool. ;-)))
Yes, that's my main concern in life!


Oh please, love me, validate me!


(This post brought to you by Pushpills)

[VooMan]

Interesting perspective...

I grew up in Brooklyn, New York. Bay Ridge to be exact... while NYC is definitely not the friendliest place on earth, I always smiled and said hello to people and found that they did the same... As long as I went first. LOL

I moved to Pennsylvania to get out of the big city, and while the scenery was beautiful, I found the people to be rude, ignorant, and downright nasty with no desire to be anything more than that. And they bitched about New Yorkers... haha

Obviously, while Peaches says Atlanta isn't what it used to be, it's been a nice change for me. But here is something I have become very aware of in the last year or so:

I have found that people respond or react to others based on mood. I think that the "vibes" you give off have a lot to do with how people behave around you. I don't think it's a conscious thing either. You can think I'm crazy if you like, but I have seen it in action too many times to be able to discount it. :)

[Sharpie]

You are exactly right Voo - action & reaction! You often like or dislike people by the way they make you feel or react.

Some people just light up a room when they enter & others subdue it.

I have always been able to go to places that some might think scarey - but when I put on my 'touch me and your dead reserved attitude - nobody bothers me.

My girlfriend is one that 'lights up the room. About everyone I know loves to be around her, because she has a way of making them feel good about themselves.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by VooMan@Feb 22 2005, 12:24 PM
I have found that people respond or react to others based on mood. I think that the "vibes" you give off have a lot to do with how people behave around you. I don't think it's a conscious thing either. You can think I'm crazy if you like, but I have seen it in action too many times to be able to discount it. :)
Oh, I definitely think people respond to cues from other people. Don't worry, be happy.

[grimm]

reading this thread brings one thought to mind..



"Marijuana is one helluva drug"


:lol:

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by grimm@Feb 22 2005, 12:51 PM
reading this thread brings one thought to mind..



"Marijuana is one helluva drug"


:lol:
That can be taken two ways. I'll take it the good way. ;-)

[grimm]

Originally posted by Almighty Colin+Feb 22 2005, 09:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Almighty Colin @ Feb 22 2005, 09:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-grimm@Feb 22 2005, 12:51 PM
reading this thread brings one thought to mind..



"Marijuana is one helluva drug"


:lol:
That can be taken two ways. I'll take it the good way. ;-) [/b][/quote]
the way it was meant:)

[Peaches]

Originally posted by VooMan@Feb 22 2005, 01:24 PM
I have found that people respond or react to others based on mood. I think that the "vibes" you give off have a lot to do with how people behave around you. I don't think it's a conscious thing either. You can think I'm crazy if you like, but I have seen it in action too many times to be able to discount it. :)
Then they would have been nice to me in NYC :awinky:

But I do agree - 99% of the time when I'm friendly, I get friendly back. And you know me, I'm always the first to strike up a convo. But damn those New Yawkers!! :grrr:

[HoneLynn]

Originally posted by grimm@Feb 22 2005, 09:51 AM
reading this thread brings one thought to mind..



"Marijuana is one helluva drug"


:lol:
My thoughts exactly :P

[Hell Puppy]

There is such a thing as being too friendly.

It's about reading the body language and whether someone is really looking for a conversation or not.

I know most of the time if I get on an elevator, I could really give a rat's ass about what someone who I'm only going to know for that 10 second ride thinks about the weather outside today.

I wont be rude if someone does start a conversation like that however.

Some of us are just introverted. I find it hard to approach someone and start a conversation, I'm more likely to let them come to me. And I'm even more likely to just listen until I get to know someone and get more comfortable around them.

I dont think extroverts understand introverts and shy people and sometimes construe the quietness as being being rude or whatever.

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Feb 23 2005, 12:33 AM
I dont think extroverts understand introverts and shy people and sometimes construe the quietness as being being rude or whatever.
Then there are a LOT of introverts in NYC. :awinky:

I usually just smile on an elevator but if I'm standing in line for 20 minutes, I'm going to strike up a conversation. If I'm brushed off, I'll shut up....eventually :P The biggest problem I have is that I'd RATHER not talk on the airplane, but I hate being rude if someone starts up first - unless it's someone I know.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally posted by Peaches+Feb 23 2005, 12:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Feb 23 2005, 12:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Hell Puppy@Feb 23 2005, 12:33 AM
I dont think extroverts understand introverts and shy people and sometimes construe the quietness as being being rude or whatever.
Then there are a LOT of introverts in NYC. :awinky:

I usually just smile on an elevator but if I'm standing in line for 20 minutes, I'm going to strike up a conversation. If I'm brushed off, I'll shut up....eventually :P The biggest problem I have is that I'd RATHER not talk on the airplane, but I hate being rude if someone starts up first - unless it's someone I know. [/b][/quote]
Airplanes are pure hell.

I'd rather have a root canal than sit next to someone who wants to dump their life history on you on an airplane.

As for elevators, I normally just grin and say "that's right, it was me!"

[gonzo]

I know what that means!

[Hell Puppy]

Originally posted by gonzo@Feb 23 2005, 12:16 AM
I know what that means!
The routine changes if there's more than 2 people on the elevator.

If you squeeze cheese on a crowded elevator and some lady gives you a dirty look, just look right back at her and say "that's right lady, look at me, and try to make 'em think *I* did it...damn, what the hell did you eat anyway?"

[kath]

I get what you're saying... things have changed - and it's pretty fucked up. When I was growing up (mid-70's) we DID bring new neighbors a pie, or some sort of home-made gift, to welcome them to the neighborhood. We had block parties every year and everyone made an effort to get along - whether it was the noisy house with all the cars on blocks at the end of the street that annoyed everyone the other 364 days of the year, or if it was the Catholic family with 11 kids that always seemed to be in everyone's yard at any given time - we were neighbors and that MEANT something.

Today - living in another state mind you, and California to boot - I don't see ANYTHING resembling a "neighborhood" feeling like I experienced growing up in Ohio. Sure, you could argue that CA and OH are millions of miles apart culturally and in many ways I would agree - but the basic foundations of a neighborhood should be *somewhat* at play out here I would imagine. I live in a small but growing desert town - nice manicured lawns, newer homes, kids of all ages and families of all types - but do I know any of my neighbors? Nope. Did anyone welcome us to the neighborhood? Nope. I wave at people, have spoken to the parents of the kids my kids hang out with occassionally (but rarely at best because the communication lines are NOT open there unfortunately - they are all too busy with their lives to know what their kids are doing) and of course we have the typical busy-body neighbor that tries to be in everyone's business. When he comes up to your car on a warm summer evening to shoot the breeze you know it's a fishing trip more than anything neighborly. lol

My best friends are people I work with online and people I grew up with "back home" in Ohio... and my family. We are very close and tight-knit. I'm very lucky to have all the people I have in my life - but would love for my kids to know that feeling of living in a true "neighborhood" where people say hello, actually give a rat's ass about each other and know each other on a first-name basis instead of referring to each other as "the family with the blue car" or "the ones with the shitty lawn."

:(

[Almighty Colin]

Kath,

EXACTLY what I've noticed and experienced. Of course it started long ago but I wonder if the World Wide Web has contributed to this even further. Now it is easier to find people online that one has much in common with than in one's neighborhood.

[sarettah]

Back in the day, while in the Navy, I was stationed in Bermuda for about 2 years. During that time I mostly lived out in town, so except for the 8:30-4 that I was at work, I lived like the Bermudians around me (except I was a little richer). I noticed pretty much the same thing. The pace of life was much slower, there was no hurry hurry hurry to get things done. At first it bothered the hell out of me. I couldn't understand why the people around me didn't have the same urgency to get today finished with. Later I relaxed and started enjoying the fact that not everything had to get done RIGHT NOW.

After a couple of years of that, I came back home to New York. Whoa. It was a super shock to walk into the rush rush rush of people thinking that everything had to be done by yesterday and they were gonna get it done or die trying.

I much prefer the Island view of life myself.

BTW, just a side note. One of the weird things about Bermuda was that all the locals seemed to hate Jamaicans. Even though Bermuda is nowhere near Jamaica, the Jamaicans that were there wokrked in the hotels and worked cheaper than the Bermudians would work. So Jamaicans (called Jumpups by Bermudians) were Bermuda's nigger in a matter of speaking.

:blink:

[MissEve]

I avoid my neighbors like the plague. I bought my townhouse when I was 25 and when I was moving in a woman came over to introduce herself and then asked "what does your husband do?" I mean, there is no way a young, single woman could buy a house right?

I pretty much avoid going to condo meetings because I just dont want to deal with those people. The other night I felt guilty and finally went to one. They spent two hours talking about nonsense. When I was leaving someone asked me if I recently bought my unit and I said no, I bought it 5+ years ago and they said..........OH! I always thought you lived with your parents! Fucking assholes, my next house is going to be on enough land I never have to see ANYONE :)

[Almighty Colin]

In Jamaica I saw a guy with an Ethiopia shirt on. Was a little curious about that. When I got back I read this ...

"Rastafarianism is a religious movement that believes that former emperor Haile Selassie of Ethiopia is God incarnate"

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Almighty Colin+Feb 22 2005, 08:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Almighty Colin @ Feb 22 2005, 08:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Winetalk.com@Feb 22 2005, 08:00 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Almighty Colin@Feb 22 2005, 07:49 AM
Jamaicans are much friendlier than Americans or Europeans.
Don't take it personal, Colin,
but for some reason you reminded me an old Arab story.

There was a blind man, who was blind since the day he was born.

He prayed Allah every day and one day Allah granted him his wish,
he made him see, but only for 5 seconds.

When blind man got his vision, he saw a donkey and went blind back again.

From that moment on,
every time somebody was telling how beautiful something was,
the blind man asked:
"is it as beautiful as donkey"?

The story is over 1000 years old......
It was a nice 5 seconds.

I don't know about any donkeys. We bought a goat for $150 and tried to bring it into the hotel to shave it. They don't want us back at that hotel again.

"Nothing good can come from messing with a goat, man".

True story [/b][/quote]
this would never happen if JR was around....

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by MissEve@Feb 23 2005, 05:53 AM
Fucking assholes, my next house is going to be on enough land I never have to see ANYONE :)
Oh, god. You're going to end up as the crazy old lady on the hill.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Almighty Colin+Feb 23 2005, 06:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Almighty Colin @ Feb 23 2005, 06:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-MissEve@Feb 23 2005, 05:53 AM
Fucking assholes, my next house is going to be on enough land I never have to see ANYONE :)
Oh, god. You're going to end up as the crazy old lady on the hill. [/b][/quote]
only if i knock some junky

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Almighty Colin+Feb 23 2005, 07:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Almighty Colin @ Feb 23 2005, 07:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-MissEve@Feb 23 2005, 05:53 AM
Fucking assholes, my next house is going to be on enough land I never have to see ANYONE :)
Oh, god. You're going to end up as the crazy old lady on the hill. [/b][/quote]
I resemble that remark! B)

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Peaches+Feb 23 2005, 08:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Feb 23 2005, 08:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Almighty Colin@Feb 23 2005, 07:09 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-MissEve@Feb 23 2005, 05:53 AM
Fucking assholes, my next house is going to be on enough land I never have to see ANYONE :)
Oh, god. You're going to end up as the crazy old lady on the hill.
I resemble that remark! B) [/b][/quote]
2 out of 3 ain't bad.

[Steffie]

I remember your name now,, I remember your name now woo hoo

I am an extremly highstrung person, I always have to go go go. Jamaica was hard on me.. Everybody is soo laid back.. After the bonfire when everybody was sleeping we were still going and going until the wee hours. I got by with 2-3 hours sleep anight, than I bounce all over the place.

My biggest problem is I relax by sitting and reading for a few hours, a highstrung book lol..

But I do want to thank everybody who put up with me in Jamaica. I can talk somebodies ear off when I drink and boy did I drink..

SLAVIK,, email me (you know why man).. I need those pictures

:rokk:

[corvett]

when i saw the thread title, i knew you were going to mention the goat story, heard it last night...spent 20 minutes laughing about it

did the cab driver get to keep the goat?

[Peaches]

Steffie, you're highstrung? I can't believe that!! :awinky:

"No good can come from de goat".

[kath]

Originally posted by Almighty Colin@Feb 23 2005, 02:38 AM
Kath,

EXACTLY what I've noticed and experienced. Of course it started long ago but I wonder if the World Wide Web has contributed to this even further. Now it is easier to find people online that one has much in common with than in one's neighborhood.
As always you make an excellent point Colin.

I've noticed that my kids have friends all over the world that they meet online to chat with at various times of the day, but are losing interest in neighborhood friends because of their changes in interest, music, hobbies, attitudes.... The "in" thing lately around here is the player/gang banger attitude/dress among all the "poor rich white kids" in the area. It reminds me of Jamie Kennedy in Malibu's Most Wanted - lol My kids - being homeschooled and not "properly socialized" according to the school district - have no patience for this and prefer to find like-minded friends online to "hang out with" - and I can't say that I blame them.

Fortunately they are involved in local clubs/groups on a regular basis - and do have a few friends in-state that they talk to on the phone and visit on weekends - so they have "real" friends and not just "virtual" ones. However they are definitely outgrowing a lot of the neighborhood kids because they are discovering that sometimes the grass IS greener elsewhere...

:awinky:

[Cyndalie]

Some of us are just introverted. I find it hard to approach someone and start a conversation, I'm more likely to let them come to me. And I'm even more likely to just listen until I get to know someone and get more comfortable around them.

My sentiments exactly. We stayed at the hotel across the street where the cabs hail you. Having cars pull over on the side of the road while your attempting to cross just to say "no thanks, just crossing" 8 times to go 20 feet did get annoying.

I wouldn't say I felt "safe", but you let your body language do the talking and they get the idea - If you look for anything you will find it, but if you keep to your business like us introverts do and stay polite you manage to enjoy your surroundings and appreciate that others treat you with the same respect.

I had a wonderful time as I always do in Jamaica (Negril) or "Jamerica" (Resorts)... I have to say I kind of like the resorts better, where you can get the "local" feel by walking down the beach but on resort property you dont get hassled, you dont deal with money (all inclusive) and the food is always ready ;)

[grimm]

Originally posted by MissEve@Feb 23 2005, 02:53 AM
I avoid my neighbors like the plague. I bought my townhouse when I was 25 and when I was moving in a woman came over to introduce herself and then asked "what does your husband do?" I mean, there is no way a young, single woman could buy a house right?

What are you doing out of the kitchen?

[DannyCox]

We spent many years travelling to Jamaica, and have been then well over 20 times. I used to think it was friendly and laid-back until we started sailing down island in what I consider the "true" Caribbean. Because of that, I tend to think of Jamaica as a hurried place where "tourists" are put up with, but not really accepted.

For the last 5 years, we have been spending our time on a sailboat, typically 3 times a year, 2-3 weeks at a time. We sail to small islands, away from the resorts and the tourists, and meet the real natives. It's amazing when you drop anchor off a small island, dinghy ashore, and find a small local bar. Beer and drinks for 50 cents, and many times having them bought for you by locals. We've made a number of good friends down island over the years, a few who have come up to Montreal and stayed with us.

We should get everyone together and do a Webmaster Charter down in the British Virgin Islands or in St. Vincent and the Grenadines. I can guarantee you an amazing time.

BTW, here is the boat we just ordered down at the Miami Boat Show over the weekend. A cutter-rigged Hylas 54 raised deck, center cockpit (http://www.hylasyachts.com/mainsite/Hylas54raisedsaloon/54_raised_saloon.htm) :matey:

-- Danny

[Dravyk]

First, this is why I love living in Philly. It is a major city (fifth largest in US) but with a hometown small feel.

Second, NYC. Where and what time of day in NYC, Peaches? If you're in midtown during the day, people are just "busy". If it's even in the evening, and you're going to a show or dinner out, it's still more of a preoccupation with what they are doing.

Having lived there as well for five years, I found NYC rudeness to be a myth. I knew the guys at the stores, the deli, the local pizza join, the movie theater. Talked to people on the street (no, not the bums!). Different feel in Chelsea or the Village (day or night) then say in the Financial District or in MidTown.

Btw, if rudeness means they will take a taxi away from you (yeah, they will) or they won't open a door for you at the front of Macy's (hey, you got two hands, lady, use them!) ... then it's just the difference of aggressiveness and individuality that can be taken as rudeness.

I remember long ago I found (or thought) or business people to be rude in general. ... Until I got into business, that is. LOL. Turns out, being "to the point" and concise and other related traits that are "just business" can be taken as rude or brusk, but usually aren't or at least aren't meant to be.

[Raven]

I have lived in many cities and towns and most sections of the US...in Philly, they will curse you out while they're picking you up.....calling you a fucking idiot as they hand you coffee....
New York...I found to be very friendly; but, then again...I grew up in Philly....

The South? Well, most people know my experience there was simply awful...but, does that speak for the entire south? I don't think so....it was just where we were and who we were with that coloured our experience so poorly.

Jamaica. Now there's a place. Stayed in Negril the year people were rioting in Montego Bay.....we were told to stay in the compound because the natives were selling pot to the rich Americans and then turning them into the police. Saw it happen...it was actually funny....staying in a place like Couples or Sandals or whatever it was...watching a guy buy pot and then five minutes later the Jamaican police swooped down and took the poor schmuck to jail....they didn't want to keep him....just wanted to confiscate the pot and fine him....nice cottage industry. :)

I live in Seattle now....and I kind of miss my East coast blunt....direct....in ya face kind of people...the overly polite, stoicism I find here is kind of alienating..and I am constantly walking around saying, 'don't mind me..it's a cultural thing'.....folks here will ask you how you are as they step over your bleeding body....

Still, no matter where I have lived..no matter what idiosyncratic behaviour exists amongst the people.....smile and the world will generally respond favourably....manners do get results no matter where we are....

[JR]

Originally posted by Raven@Feb 23 2005, 07:41 PM


I live in Seattle now....and I kind of miss my East coast blunt....direct....in ya face kind of people...the overly polite, stoicism I find here is kind of alienating..and I am constantly walking around saying, 'don't mind me..it's a cultural thing'.....folks here will ask you how you are as they step over your bleeding body....

i live in Kirkland. I gottta say i agree that people in the NW are VERY passive and obsessively polite. we can meet sometime and I can be very rude and demeaning if you wish. :)

[VooMan]

Originally posted by Dravyk@Feb 23 2005, 10:05 PM

Having lived there as well for five years, I found NYC rudeness to be a myth. I knew the guys at the stores, the deli, the local pizza join, the movie theater. Talked to people on the street (no, not the bums!). Different feel in Chelsea or the Village (day or night) then say in the Financial District or in MidTown.

Yeah, what he said.

When I used to walk into Bay Ridge Pizza I was a celebrity. No, really... Frankie behind the counter would start yelling as soon as I came in the door.

Aaaandrewwwww Aaaandrewwwww! Hey, everybody! Andrew's here!

Then the rest of the guys would come out of the kitchen and start doing it too. hahaha People who were eating would look at eachother like "who is this guy? Should we know who he is?"

Best pizza I ever had... B)

[Raven]

I never had a problem in New York....or Washington, DC....Baltimore was a little hinky...but it was Baltimore....:)

The delis in New York and Philly are amazingly loud and friendly...boisterous and just awesome....they flirt with old ladies and make their day...everyone is a dollface or a honey......they tell off coloured jokes...

JR...you're on... let's meet. We can trade those one liner wise cracks....

I've always been the type to talk to strangers...and we'll amuse ourselves in check out lines and make jokes....I get the strangest looks...my G'D, I've spoken aloud.....such reticence....too damned polite..and it's not even polite. I'm trying to think of the word...
Flat....that's it...flat affect...

[JR]

Originally posted by Raven@Feb 23 2005, 07:59 PM


JR...you're on... let's meet. We can trade those one liner wise cracks....

I've always been the type to talk to strangers...and we'll amuse ourselves in check out lines and make jokes....I get the strangest looks...my G'D, I've spoken aloud.....such reticence....too damned polite..and it's not even polite. I'm trying to think of the word...
Flat....that's it...flat affect...
sounds like fun. you can call/sms me at 425-273-0975

i must warn you. i make fun of everyone and i think its most funny when no one understands the joke.... but I never turn down a chance to go to the U District and Capital Hill to make fun of everyone around me for no real good reason at all. :)

[Vick]

Originally posted by Raven@Feb 23 2005, 10:59 PM
Baltimore was a little hinky...but it was Baltimore....:)


http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hinky

Main Entry: hinky
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: nervous or suspicious; acting suspiciously
Example: The teenagers were acting hinky.
Etymology: alteration of hincty
Usage: hinkier, hinkiest

Or did you mean Kinky? :unsure:

Actually Baltimore is full of Baltimorons
Lot of blue collar from last century, many nedwrecks (rednecks) <I often remark it takes generations of inbreeding to get things like that>
and somewhat inner city urban in places

[Peaches]

I thought the Baltimorons were very nice :)

I was with a rude guy from NJ whenever I was in NYC so that might have had something to do with it. Just a lot of people stared at me like I was crazy if I talked to them. They could be right though..... :P

[Raven]

Well, Peaches, New Jersey is kind of a strange place...some are apologists because they don't live in New York or Philly....it's just Jersey, the nuclear waste garbage dump of the east coast....

Then there are those whose superiority springs forth from the inferiority they're trying to make up for by virtue of living in Jersey..it's a little schizy...

I'm just kidding...

There's crap wherever we go...and gems where we can find 'em. :)

[Dravyk]

Originally posted by Raven@Feb 23 2005, 10:41 PM
I live in Seattle now....and I kind of miss my East coast blunt....direct....in ya face kind of people...the overly polite, stoicism I find here is kind of alienating..and I am constantly walking around saying, 'don't mind me..it's a cultural thing'.....folks here will ask you how you are as they step over your bleeding body....
J'know whot dis reminds me uv? B)

Ever see the movie "My Blue Heaven"? If not, see it!

Steve Martin is a "Yo" from Brooklyn, da Mafia. Get's sent tuh Cal-ee-for-nee-uh in the witness protection program. Everywhere he goes, clean housing developments, no litter, everyone says "Hello" and "Have a nice day" ... after a while Martin's character just starts replying "Fuck you".

[Dravyk]

Originally posted by Raven@Feb 24 2005, 01:58 AM
Well, Peaches, New Jersey is kind of a strange place...some are apologists because they don't live in New York or Philly....it's just Jersey, the nuclear waste garbage dump of the east coast....

Then there are those whose superiority springs forth from the inferiority they're trying to make up for by virtue of living in Jersey..it's a little schizy...
It all depends. As you know, Raven, they are actually two totally different worlds. Dares Noit Joisey and den dares Sout Joisey.

South Jersey is the suburbs of Philly, people live in various townships and boroughs; there's lots of tall trees, and they go "down the shore".

North Jersey is the suburbs of New York, people live off highway exit numbers; there's lots of big rocks, and they "head for the beach".

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Steffie@Feb 23 2005, 10:29 AM
I remember your name now,, I remember your name now woo hoo

ah-ha! What's up, Steffie?!

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by kath@Feb 23 2005, 05:19 PM
Fortunately they are involved in local clubs/groups on a regular basis - and do have a few friends in-state that they talk to on the phone and visit on weekends - so they have "real" friends and not just "virtual" ones.
Kath, interesting you brought that up. Here is the amazon.com description of Bowling Alone (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0743203046/qid=1109238591/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/104-7171017-6975102?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)

"Once we bowled in leagues, usually after work -- but no longer. This seemingly small phenomenon symbolizes a significant social change that Robert Putnam has identified in this brilliant volume, Bowling Alone, which The Economist hailed as "a prodigious achievement."

Drawing on vast new data that reveal Americans' changing behavior, Putnam shows how we have become increasingly disconnected from one another and how social structures -- whether they be PTA, church, or political parties -- have disintegrated. Until the publication of this groundbreaking work, no one had so deftly diagnosed the harm that these broken bonds have wreaked on our physical and civic health, nor had anyone exalted their fundamental power in creating a society that is happy, healthy, and safe."

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Dravyk@Feb 24 2005, 04:17 AM
It all depends. As you know, Raven, they are actually two totally different worlds. Dares Noit Joisey and den dares Sout Joisey.

South Jersey is the suburbs of Philly, people live in various townships and boroughs; there's lots of tall trees, and they go "down the shore".

North Jersey is the suburbs of New York, people live off highway exit numbers; there's lots of big rocks, and they "head for the beach".
I've only been to Princeton. I think that's in its own category.

[HEQmedia]

Hello Colin and board,

Long time no read.

I do like the header graphic and new look here, I'm sure it isn't new, but it is to me.

Anyway, about praying and "Allah" references in general, we feel obligated here at HEQmedia to direct attention to this piece:

http://www.heqmedia.com/Sonatria130.html

Thank you in advance,
G.d

[punkerbarbie]

Originally posted by grimm@Feb 22 2005, 09:51 AM
reading this thread brings one thought to mind..



"Marijuana is one helluva drug"


:lol:
:P

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by HEQmedia@Feb 24 2005, 05:26 PM
Hello Colin and board,

Long time no read.

I do like the header graphic and new look here, I'm sure it isn't new, but it is to me.

Anyway, about praying and "Allah" references in general, we feel obligated here at HEQmedia to direct attention to this piece:

http://www.heqmedia.com/Sonatria130.html

Thank you in advance,
G.d
Ahhhh. The Muslim Dr. Seuss. You know, of course, that it pales in comparison to the original.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by punkerbarbie+Feb 24 2005, 07:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (punkerbarbie @ Feb 24 2005, 07:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-grimm@Feb 22 2005, 09:51 AM
reading this thread brings one thought to mind..



"Marijuana is one helluva drug"


:lol:
:P [/b][/quote]
Whatchu smokin'?

[Raven]

vick.....I meant hinky.....and kinky doesn't fit. After all, they are suffering from an identity crisis. Not quite citified and not quite the South.....:)

Oh, Dravyk. You do bring back some memories.....doncha sweetie? Been ten years since I've been 'home'.....Arguing where the best steak sandwich place was .....where the best deli was....which diner in the Northeast ruled.....those were the days...

Colin...this sums up Princeton.

I was, unfortunately, at a football game between Penn and Princeton. The ref's most exciting remark was:

Ooh. Fumble.

It's oh so Ivy League. Oh so Ivory Tower. University City was much more fun.

JR....what I miss is being downtown in Philly, sitting by the waterfront making fun of the wannabe yuppies.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Raven@Feb 25 2005, 04:51 AM
Colin...this sums up Princeton.

I was, unfortunately, at a football game between Penn and Princeton. The ref's most exciting remark was:

Ooh. Fumble.

It's oh so Ivy League. Oh so Ivory Tower. University City was much more fun.
Princeton is too pretentious.

At the Yale/Harvard game there is a tradition that during the third quarter the band turns toward the crowd and plays a striptease song. The students of Saybrook, a Yale residential college, then proceed to strip naked.

There is also "the streak". On the day when the parents of incoming freshmen come to visit the Yale campus, hundreds of upperclassmen run naked across the quad.

Back in 1995, when I was a senior, some Yalies protested Playboy's recruiting of Yale women by - get this - streaking. They ended up nude in the next "Women of the Ivy League" issue.

Now about those Princeton students. Nice sweaters.

[Dravyk]

Originally posted by sarettah@Feb 23 2005, 05:52 AM
BTW, just a side note. One of the weird things about Bermuda was that all the locals seemed to hate Jamaicans. Even though Bermuda is nowhere near Jamaica, the Jamaicans that were there wokrked in the hotels and worked cheaper than the Bermudians would work. So Jamaicans (called Jumpups by Bermudians) were Bermuda's nigger in a matter of speaking.

:blink:
Been to the Bahamas and to Jamaica but not to Bermuda. Anyways your post reminded me of some things, HP.

From talking to a Bahamian police officer, he really hated the attitude of most Bahamians which he said was to be lazy and bums.

In Jamaica, they also think the Bahamians are bums. In the Bahamas, they think Jamaicans are thieves and con men.

I found the Bahamas more relaxing than Jamaica. In the Bahamas, I would meet maybe four or five panhandlers a day. In Jamaica, while I appreciate their more "work for the money" than "give me some money" attitude, I tended to meet 50-100 Jamaicans who wanted to sell me something.

And unlike the Bahamian bums who you say "got nothing" and they slink away, the Jamaicans wanting to sell me something would just not get out of your face with their list of commodities they could get you. "No, don't want this? I get you that? Hey I got the other. Yo man, what about this then?" They pretended to not understand what the word "No!" meant.

The one thing I've never liked about Jamaica; mind you, it was a lot worse six years ago when I went then two years ago. How did folks find that this recent time?

[Peaches]

Next time you get hustled by a Jamaican, tell them to get you some marshmallows :P

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Peaches@Feb 25 2005, 02:48 PM
Next time you get hustled by a Jamaican, tell them to get you some marshmallows :P
This is the most important thing anyone travelling to Jamaica should know.

[grimm]

Originally posted by Almighty Colin+Feb 25 2005, 01:19 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Almighty Colin @ Feb 25 2005, 01:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by punkerbarbie@Feb 24 2005, 07:06 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-grimm@Feb 22 2005, 09:51 AM
reading this thread brings one thought to mind..



"Marijuana is one helluva drug"


:lol:
:P
Whatchu smokin'? [/b][/quote]
life man, i pack a big bowl of it every day and smoke it down.

*gag*

[kath]

Originally posted by Almighty Colin+Feb 24 2005, 02:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Almighty Colin @ Feb 24 2005, 02:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-kath@Feb 23 2005, 05:19 PM
Fortunately they are involved in local clubs/groups on a regular basis - and do have a few friends in-state that they talk to on the phone and visit on weekends - so they have "real" friends and not just "virtual" ones.
Kath, interesting you brought that up. Here is the amazon.com description of Bowling Alone (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0743203046/qid=1109238591/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/104-7171017-6975102?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)

"Once we bowled in leagues, usually after work -- but no longer. This seemingly small phenomenon symbolizes a significant social change that Robert Putnam has identified in this brilliant volume, Bowling Alone, which The Economist hailed as "a prodigious achievement."

Drawing on vast new data that reveal Americans' changing behavior, Putnam shows how we have become increasingly disconnected from one another and how social structures -- whether they be PTA, church, or political parties -- have disintegrated. Until the publication of this groundbreaking work, no one had so deftly diagnosed the harm that these broken bonds have wreaked on our physical and civic health, nor had anyone exalted their fundamental power in creating a society that is happy, healthy, and safe." [/b][/quote]
Good point... looks like an interesting read - I actually ordered a copy (and now I'm looking around - I need a 12-step for bookstores - lol).

I guess my family is the perfect example of being disconnected from community/society:

We homeschool.
We "home church" (I don't believe in organized religion).
We work from home.
We socialize from home - online.

The house we've lived in now for over 4 years is in a city that we've never technically "been" to. We live in a small north section of the main city on the outskirts - I've never seen the city hall, public library, any stores/shops/restaurants or public parks in my own city. We travel 2 towns over for most of our activities and shopping. I think we are truly as disconnected as they come.

:unsure:

If it wasn't for sports teams and outside art/music/language classes we really wouldn't have anything to do with our community. The funny thing though is that when people meet my kids they usually describe them as being more "culturally educated" and mature than kids their own age... I wonder how that happened?

[Raven]

Our society is increasingly isolated and disconnected. The suicide rate has gone up...over the years and I believe there is a direct correlation....

Kath...we work from home, do not go to any 'church'. My church is inside of me....has a membership of one...

I don't know my neighbours. Don't want to...

I'm not involved in my community and I keep them away from me...

Interestingly, though, Tev does belong to a bowling league...and we do have friends..that are off line...but most of my social life is with Tev, my son and my extended family....and the shows I attend...ICQ and phone..

"If it wasn't for sports teams and outside art/music/language classes we really wouldn't have anything to do with our community. The funny thing though is that when people meet my kids they usually describe them as being more "culturally educated" and mature than kids their own age... I wonder how that happened?" --- They have you for a mother, that's how it happened...you don't shelter them from life...