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grimm
02-14-2005, 01:40 AM
The Bush administration is pushing this shit through right quick.


Taken from the Drudge Report web site...

Published: February 10, 2005, 5:46 PM PST
By Declan McCullagh
Staff Writer, CNET News.com

The U.S. House of Representatives approved on Thursday a sweeping set
of rules aimed at forcing states to issue all adults federally
approved electronic ID cards, including driver's licenses.

Under the rules, federal employees would reject licenses or identity
cards that don't comply, which could curb Americans' access to
airplanes, trains, national parks, federal courthouses and other areas
controlled by the federal government. The bill was approved by a
261-161 vote.

The measure, called the Real ID Act, says that driver's licenses and
other ID cards must include a digital photograph, anticounterfeiting
features and undefined "machine-readable technology, with defined
minimum data elements" that could include a magnetic strip or RFID
tag. The Department of Homeland Security would be charged with
drafting the details of the regulation.

Republican politicians argued that the new rules were necessary to
thwart terrorists, saying that four of the Sept. 11, 2001, hijackers
possessed valid state-issued driver's licenses. "When I get on an
airplane and someone shows ID, I'd like to be sure they are who they
say they are," said Rep. Tom Davis, a Virginia Republican, during a
floor debate that started Wednesday.

States would be required to demand proof of the person's Social
Security number and confirm that number with the Social Security
Administration. They would also have to scan in documents showing the
person's date of birth and immigration status, and create a massive
store "so that the (scanned) images can be retained in electronic
storage in a transferable format" permanently.

Another portion of the bill says that states would be required to link
their DMV databases if they wished to receive federal funds. Among the
information that must be shared: All data fields printed on drivers'
licenses and identification cards, and complete drivers' histories,
including motor vehicle violations, suspensions and points on licenses.

The Bush administration threw its weight behind the Real ID Act, which
has been derided by some conservative and civil liberties groups as
tantamount to a national ID card. The White House said in a statement
this week that it "strongly supports House passage" of the bill.

Thursday's vote mostly fell along party lines. About 95 percent of the
House Republicans voted for the bill, which had been prepared by the
judiciary committee chairman, F. James Sensenbrenner, a Wisconsin
Republican. More than three-fourths of the House Democrats opposed it.

Rep. Eleanor Holmes Norton, a Democrat from Washington, D.C., charged
that Republicans were becoming hypocrites by trampling on states'
rights. "I thought the other side of the aisle extols federalism at
all times," Norton said. "Yes, even in hard times, even when you're
dealing with terrorism. So what's happening now? Why are those who
speak up for states whenever it strikes their fancy doing this now?"

Civil libertarians and firearm rights groups condemned the bill before
the vote. The American Civil Liberties Union likened the new rules to
a "de facto national ID card," saying that the measure would force
"states to deny driver's licenses to undocumented immigrants" and make
DMV employees act as agents of the federal immigration service.

Because an ID is required to purchase a firearm from a dealer, Gun
Owners of America said the bill amounts to a "bureaucratic back door
to implementation of a national ID card." The group warned that it
would "empower the federal government to determine who can get a
driver's license--and under what conditions."

kath
02-14-2005, 02:04 AM
This country is fucked up. People don't know what they think... they just think what they're told to think. Hub is an ACLU hater - I guess most cops are. I keep trying to tell him that they take all sorts of cases - and showed him this as an example.

I said, "Look what your President's Administration is trying to do."

He replies only with, "Well, this is good but the ACLU needs to decide what side they're on and make a choice."

I start to reply... to explain... to inform... to educate...

But then I just roll my eyes, :rolleyes: bite my tongue and realize that nothing I say will change his mind... <_<

Whatever.

RyanLanane
02-14-2005, 02:08 AM
I don't know about other states, but Illinois starting to make this change years ago. All digital photography for all ID's cooked onto plastic cards. Not only that, there is a black scan bar on the back of the ID that has all the information that is on the front of the I.D. encrypted (in a sense).

I never knew what that black bar was until a new gas station opened up down the road and I went there to grab some heineken at about 12:30 A.M. the lady asked me for my I.D. and I said.. "O.K. Here you go" and flipped open my wallet pushing the I.D. up against the glass.

She says "No, I need you to take it out so I can scan it" ?? I'm thinking WTF, but I already had a few beers in me and thought I misheard her. So I hand her my I.D. and she runs it under a machien very similar to what scans lotto tickets (the red glowing light). She gives me the I.D. back and says "Thank you Ryan" as I see my birthdate flash up on the cash register.

I'm walking out of there like "WTF" so I go back the next night sober as hell about 9:00 or so and grab a 6 pack, again the SAME lady asked for my ID. I asked her if she remembered me from the night before and got the typical, "Hun I see hundreds of people a day" response. So I say O.K. Here you go. She again did the same thing and I saw my birthdate flash up there again...

I asked her what the deal was and she said this was the newest device which prevented minors from using Fake I.D.'s by verifying information on the scan bar.

To this day, including Chicago and all other big cities in Illinois I have never seen another machine and to tell you the truth it kind of freaks me out.

Homeland security yes, to the point where it invades my privacy? No

Truth of the matter is ALL this 'new security' they are trying to push through costing MILLIONS hasn't done alot for us. And the sad thing is we were warned many months before 9/11 it was a possibility and there was a 'threat on U.S. soil' - So instead of invading our privacy why don't they just do their jobs rather than spy on our every move, which is what it is coming down to.

As weird as it is, as an American I feel I have less privacy than I would in 90% of the other countries out there.. And we are "The Land of the Free" ?

Hopefully all this foolishness is put to a stop, Bush got what he wanted. Didn't work for Dad, but worked for him.. Now he should just coast through the next few years IMHO.

grimm
02-14-2005, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by RyanLanane@Feb 13 2005, 11:09 PM
I don't know about other states, but Illinois starting to make this change years ago. All digital photography for all ID's cooked onto plastic cards. Not only that, there is a black scan bar on the back of the ID that has all the information that is on the front of the I.D. encrypted (in a sense).

I never knew what that black bar was until a new gas station opened up down the road and I went there to grab some heineken at about 12:30 A.M. the lady asked me for my I.D. and I said.. "O.K. Here you go" and flipped open my wallet pushing the I.D. up against the glass.

She says "No, I need you to take it out so I can scan it" ?? I'm thinking WTF, but I already had a few beers in me and thought I misheard her. So I hand her my I.D. and she runs it under a machien very similar to what scans lotto tickets (the red glowing light). She gives me the I.D. back and says "Thank you Ryan" as I see my birthdate flash up on the cash register.

I'm walking out of there like "WTF" so I go back the next night sober as hell about 9:00 or so and grab a 6 pack, again the SAME lady asked for my ID. I asked her if she remembered me from the night before and got the typical, "Hun I see hundreds of people a day" response. So I say O.K. Here you go. She again did the same thing and I saw my birthdate flash up there again...

I asked her what the deal was and she said this was the newest device which prevented minors from using Fake I.D.'s by verifying information on the scan bar.

To this day, including Chicago and all other big cities in Illinois I have never seen another machine and to tell you the truth it kind of freaks me out.

Homeland security yes, to the point where it invades my privacy? No

Truth of the matter is ALL this 'new security' they are trying to push through costing MILLIONS hasn't done alot for us. And the sad thing is we were warned many months before 9/11 it was a possibility and there was a 'threat on U.S. soil' - So instead of invading our privacy why don't they just do their jobs rather than spy on our every move, which is what it is coming down to.

As weird as it is, as an American I feel I have less privacy than I would in 90% of the other countries out there.. And we are "The Land of the Free" ?

Hopefully all this foolishness is put to a stop, Bush got what he wanted. Didn't work for Dad, but worked for him.. Now he should just coast through the next few years IMHO.
most states have the scan bar on the back for verification of age, validity of ID. A lot of bars, casinos, etc, swipe it for an affirmative result on 21 or not.

that is a state issue, i am fine with that. a federal ID throws states rights to the wind, a very anti-republican thing to do. I do not understand how this administration could stand for smaller government, and push through a national ID program. another way this administration is contradictory. Also remember that part of Bush's campaign platform was that he was against any National ID system. So we will see what happens when it comes time to sign on the line that is dotted for W.

TheEnforcer
02-14-2005, 03:58 PM
It's big brother creep and it happens all the time and it drives me fucking nuts.

spazlabz
02-14-2005, 04:58 PM
ahhh what the fuck, just tattoo my forehead and hand me my papers to cross state lines
fucking fighting for 'freedom' over seas and denying it here :heil:


spaz

RyanLanane
02-15-2005, 06:29 AM
Oh damn, so now I have to carry my Driver's license, my state I.D. (for when I have those damn traffic violations I get all the time), and a National I.D. ? SCREW THAT!

The whole concept of a national I.D. is kind of freaky, I mis read your post the first time Colin.. I know all the schools here (even in a town of 35K) force you to wear an I.D. badge around your neck at all times. If you forget it they force you to buy a new one or go home for the day and serve it as a "Suspension Day".

Privacy is becoming less and less of a concern for Americans and more people seem to be willing to adapt to these policies to "protect their country". Truth of the matter is, none of this would of stopped 9/11 they had everything they needed to stop it on their lap from our government's setup 5 years ago, why do they think this will change the actions of the administration?

OldJeff
02-15-2005, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by RyanLanane@Feb 15 2005, 06:30 AM

Privacy is becoming less and less of a concern for Americans and more people seem to be willing to adapt to these policies to "protect their country". Truth of the matter is, none of this would of stopped 9/11 they had everything they needed to stop it on their lap from our government's setup 5 years ago, why do they think this will change the actions of the administration?
They do not think this will do anything, that is not the reason for it.

This administration does not give 2 shits about what happened on 9/11 (except for the photo ops and sound bites they can exploit)

This, just like the patriot act is designed to further keep the sheep in line, just another excuse to override the constitution to further their own agenda.

RyanLanane
02-15-2005, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by OldJeff+Feb 15 2005, 06:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (OldJeff @ Feb 15 2005, 06:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-RyanLanane@Feb 15 2005, 06:30 AM

Privacy is becoming less and less of a concern for Americans and more people seem to be willing to adapt to these policies to "protect their country". Truth of the matter is, none of this would of stopped 9/11 they had everything they needed to stop it on their lap from our government's setup 5 years ago, why do they think this will change the actions of the administration?
They do not think this will do anything, that is not the reason for it.

This administration does not give 2 shits about what happened on 9/11 (except for the photo ops and sound bites they can exploit)

This, just like the patriot act is designed to further keep the sheep in line, just another excuse to override the constitution to further their own agenda. [/b][/quote]

Amen to that!

grimm
02-15-2005, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by RyanLanane@Feb 15 2005, 03:30 AM
Oh damn, so now I have to carry my Driver's license, my state I.D. (for when I have those damn traffic violations I get all the time), and a National I.D. ? SCREW THAT!

The whole concept of a national I.D. is kind of freaky, I mis read your post the first time Colin.. I know all the schools here (even in a town of 35K) force you to wear an I.D. badge around your neck at all times. If you forget it they force you to buy a new one or go home for the day and serve it as a "Suspension Day".

Privacy is becoming less and less of a concern for Americans and more people seem to be willing to adapt to these policies to "protect their country". Truth of the matter is, none of this would of stopped 9/11 they had everything they needed to stop it on their lap from our government's setup 5 years ago, why do they think this will change the actions of the administration?
the state ID exists for valid verification of self in the case one does not obtain a drivers license.. to have a state ID is completely voluntary. I know some that do. I personally dont. So thats fine.. it is not legislated and mandated that you have one.. just could make your life easier.. just like a passport. you dont have to have one if you spend your entire life within your nation.

now a federally mandated ID is way more nefarious. and to force Americans to hold such an ID would be against personaly privacy and property and un-Constitutional at best.