Do you suffer from Depression? [Archive] - Oprano Adult Industry Forums

Nickatilynx

02-11-2005, 01:11 PM

Here is the study published in the BMJ , Grimm.

Where did you get your Doctorate?

;-))

Acute treatment of moderate to severe depression with hypericum extract WS 5570 (St John's wort): randomised controlled double blind non-inferiority trial versus paroxetine
A Szegedi 1, R Kohnen 2, A Dienel 3, M Kieser 3
1 Charité-Universitätsmedizin Berlin, Campus Benjamin Franklin, Department of Psychiatry and Psychotherapy, Eschenallee 3, 14050 Berlin, Germany
2 Institute for Medical Research Management and Biometrics GmbH, Scheurlstraße 21, 90478 Nürnberg, Germany
3 Dr Willmar Schwabe Pharmaceuticals, PO Box 410925, 76209 Karlsruhe, Germany

Objective To investigate the efficacy of hypericum extract WS 5570 (St John's wort) compared with paroxetine in patients with moderate to severe major depression.

Design Randomised double blind, double dummy, reference controlled, multicentre non-inferiority trial.

Setting 21 psychiatric primary care practices in Germany.

Participants 251 adult outpatients with acute major depression with total score 22 on the 17 item Hamilton depression scale.

Interventions 900 mg/day hypericum extract WS 5570 three times a day or 20 mg paroxetine once a day for six weeks. In initial non-responders doses were increased to 1800 mg/day hypericum or 40 mg/day paroxetine after two weeks.

Main outcome measures Change in score on Hamilton depression scale from baseline to day 42 (primary outcome). Secondary measures were change in scores on Montgomery-Åsberg depression rating scale, clinical global impressions, and Beck depression inventory.

Results The Hamilton depression total score decreased by mean 14.4 (SD 8.8) points, corresponding to 56.6% (SD 34.3%) of the baseline value, in the hypericum group and by 11.4 (SD 8.6) points (44.8% (SD 33.5%) of baseline value) in the paroxetine group (intention to treat analysis; similar results were observed in the per protocol analysis). The intention to treat analysis (lower one sided 97.5% confidence limit 1.5 points for the difference hypericum minus paroxetine) and the per protocol analysis (lower confidence limit 0.7 points) showed non-inferiority of hypericum and statistical superiority over paroxetine. The lower limits in both cases exceeded the pre-specified non-inferiority margin of -2.5 points and the superiority margin of 0. The incidence of adverse events was 0.035 and 0.060 events per day of exposure for hypericum and paroxetine, respectively.

Conclusions In the treatment of moderate to severe major depression, hypericum extract WS 5570 is at least as effective as paroxetine and is better tolerated.

grimm

02-11-2005, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by DrGuile+Feb 11 2005, 10:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (DrGuile @ Feb 11 2005, 10:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-grimm@Feb 11 2005, 01:08 PM
[...]tryptophan will do the trick, if you are mildly depressed;)

The thing in turkey that makes you sleepy? [/b][/quote]
yep the very same.. releases seratonin and melatonin, creating an overwhelming feeling of calm. and you dont have to take a pill... just do 10 minutes of physical activity;)

dopamine is also triggered by activity, certain colors, smells, and sunlight.

so if you are mildly depressed, take a walk in the sun;)

Peaches

02-11-2005, 01:13 PM

Sex and food get me over any depression I might be feeling :)

grimm

02-11-2005, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Feb 11 2005, 10:12 AM
Here is the study published in the BMJ , Grimm.

Where did you get your Doctorate?

;-))

Acute treatment of moderate to severe depression with hypericum extract WS 5570 (St John's wort): randomised controlled double blind non-inferiority trial versus paroxetine
A Szegedi 1, R Kohnen 2, A Dienel 3, M Kieser 3
1 Charité-Universitätsmedizin Berlin, Campus Benjamin Franklin, Department of Psychiatry and Psychotherapy, Eschenallee 3, 14050 Berlin, Germany
2 Institute for Medical Research Management and Biometrics GmbH, Scheurlstraße 21, 90478 Nürnberg, Germany
3 Dr Willmar Schwabe Pharmaceuticals, PO Box 410925, 76209 Karlsruhe, Germany

Objective To investigate the efficacy of hypericum extract WS 5570 (St John's wort) compared with paroxetine in patients with moderate to severe major depression.

Design Randomised double blind, double dummy, reference controlled, multicentre non-inferiority trial.

Setting 21 psychiatric primary care practices in Germany.

Participants 251 adult outpatients with acute major depression with total score 22 on the 17 item Hamilton depression scale.

Interventions 900 mg/day hypericum extract WS 5570 three times a day or 20 mg paroxetine once a day for six weeks. In initial non-responders doses were increased to 1800 mg/day hypericum or 40 mg/day paroxetine after two weeks.

Main outcome measures Change in score on Hamilton depression scale from baseline to day 42 (primary outcome). Secondary measures were change in scores on Montgomery-Åsberg depression rating scale, clinical global impressions, and Beck depression inventory.

Results The Hamilton depression total score decreased by mean 14.4 (SD 8.8) points, corresponding to 56.6% (SD 34.3%) of the baseline value, in the hypericum group and by 11.4 (SD 8.6) points (44.8% (SD 33.5%) of baseline value) in the paroxetine group (intention to treat analysis; similar results were observed in the per protocol analysis). The intention to treat analysis (lower one sided 97.5% confidence limit 1.5 points for the difference hypericum minus paroxetine) and the per protocol analysis (lower confidence limit 0.7 points) showed non-inferiority of hypericum and statistical superiority over paroxetine. The lower limits in both cases exceeded the pre-specified non-inferiority margin of -2.5 points and the superiority margin of 0. The incidence of adverse events was 0.035 and 0.060 events per day of exposure for hypericum and paroxetine, respectively.

Conclusions In the treatment of moderate to severe major depression, hypericum extract WS 5570 is at least as effective as paroxetine and is better tolerated.
its one of many studies nick..

all show that it may or may not help mild clinical depression... not arguing that, the argument in EVERY ONE of these studies was whether the results were because of a placebo effect.. im depressed, i take a pill to make it better, i feel better, i go take a walk or talk to a friend.... or chemical.. as there is not much behind St Johns Wort releasing any more neurotransmitters than taking a walk or talking to a friend;)

as for the doctorate... no phd but..school of hard knocks, that and School of Chemistry and Chemical Engineering:)

Forest

02-11-2005, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by Peaches@Feb 11 2005, 01:14 PM
Sex and food get me over any depression I might be feeling :)
sex??

whats that

:cryin:

Nickatilynx

02-11-2005, 01:19 PM

This though one says its effective in the treatment of:

" moderate to severe major depression"

And the conclusion is "at least as effective".

grimm

02-11-2005, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by Peaches@Feb 11 2005, 10:14 AM
Sex and food get me over any depression I might be feeling :)
Sex would be under th exercise column.. thats a literal explosion of every neurotransmitter you have to control muscle movement, increase heart rate, blood pressure, blood moving fast through your organs, creating a rapid dispersement of these chemicals over neural pathways, nerve endings firing at will... and that is all before orgasm;)

and food... depending on the type releases all sorts fo lovely chemicals into your body from your brain and pancreas and gastro-intestinal system..Pancreozymin, Cholecystoknin, give you that happy saieted "full" feeling...not to mention the digestive triggers flood your synapses with seratonin, adrenalin, etc, as your body prepares for digestion

Evil Chris

02-11-2005, 01:22 PM

You would be amazed at the sheer number of webmasters who suffer from varying degrees of a] depression, B] anxiety disorder, and c] ADD.

Raven

02-11-2005, 01:23 PM

There have been studies on St. John's Wort....and they vary in what they say about the efficacy of this herb.

Whether it is a placebo effect or there are some real properties depends on whose clinical trial you want to believe.

There have been some non scientific studies, based simply on what people report as to whether St. John's Wort actually lifts the spirits; but, in my experience, all of these herbs and drugs.....are merely bandaids....

Without going into lengthy explanations, it's really a matter of economy. It's much less expensive to prescribe a lifetime of prozac, paxil, zoloft and the newer anti depressants than it is to co pay talk therapy, which is what these people truly need.

All these drugs accomplish is a film over the problem...physically, they allow the psyche to fool itself into thinking its fine when it isn't....

grimm

02-11-2005, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Feb 11 2005, 10:20 AM
This though one says its effective in the treatment of:

" moderate to severe major depression"

And the conclusion is "at least as effective".
i can produced tens to hundreds of studies on St Johns Wort going back decades, even centuries... The greeks used it as an analgesic, pre-anesthesia.. you want to go into an operating room and get cut with the assurance of st johns wort being in your system?;)

for mild depression, or insomnia (which often go hand in hand).. you can take st johns wort, melatonin, valerian tea or root, etc.. it might make you sleepy... so might tylenol PM..

and besides, what your body releases naturally is way stronger.

and beware of HERBAL REMEDIES... not in this case, but in others, they are not regulated, and are sometimes way stronger than what you can get from a doc... see ginseng, ephedra, etc vs prescription varients for the the same purpose. also lack of regulation in herbal markets are dangerous.. need to consult your phsyician before taking hrebal remedies, as side effects could be a decrease in pancreatic enzymes, kidney problems, and acute rise in your Liver Enzymes.

grimm

02-11-2005, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by Evil Chris@Feb 11 2005, 10:23 AM
You would be amazed at the sheer number of webmasters who suffer from varying degrees of a] depression, B] anxiety disorder, and c] ADD.
i believe there is a direct correlation between that and insomnia and a lack of a proper circadian rhythm at all... staying up all night, sleeping during the day... can definitely make one depressed.. not to mention the added stressors of running your own business, not getting out as much, lack of one on one physical and verbal contact with real live friends... we get bogged down 24/7 between making our businesses work and not sleeping.. next thing you know you could end up a mess;)

grimm

02-11-2005, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by Raven@Feb 11 2005, 10:24 AM
There have been studies on St. John's Wort....and they vary in what they say about the efficacy of this herb.

Whether it is a placebo effect or there are some real properties depends on whose clinical trial you want to believe.

There have been some non scientific studies, based simply on what people report as to whether St. John's Wort actually lifts the spirits; but, in my experience, all of these herbs and drugs.....are merely bandaids....

Without going into lengthy explanations, it's really a matter of economy. It's much less expensive to prescribe a lifetime of prozac, paxil, zoloft and the newer anti depressants than it is to co pay talk therapy, which is what these people truly need.

All these drugs accomplish is a film over the problem...physically, they allow the psyche to fool itself into thinking its fine when it isn't....
I couldn't agree more.. if you are on any sort of MAOI or SSRI, and you are not talking to a professional, you need to be... the root of the problems may be chemical, but the remedy could be a change in lifestyle, diet, excercise patterns, social patterns, etc.. none of this a depressed individual is going to realize on their own.. talking out the way you feel should go hand and hand with any prescription.

Raven

02-11-2005, 01:42 PM

I very much agree with your statement, Grimm....our bodies were not meant to go against the natural order of things.....it's unfortunate, but fuck with the circadian rhythm and things happen which can be rather annoying....

Stress, positive or negative, is seen by the body as an attack...the immune system will respond....and everyone knows it's hard to fight a war on two fronts...so we are making our systems work double time....fighting the daily constant war on disease prevention...AND fighting the stressors we add...like not enough sleep, sleeping during the day and staying awake at night..not enough physical activity..worry.....etc...etc...etc..

There are herbal remedies that are downright dangerous....people just don't get it..they think herbals are benign; when, in reality, they can kill you just like the prescription meds can.

After all, digitalis comes from a plant...pretty but deadly if you take too much....

Aspirin..well, willow bark....and had anyone known of its powers, it would have been a prescription...

Those are just two examples.....

The damned drug companies and herbal companies with their advertisements....and, I also blame the people for believing the 'magic bullet' theory of take this. Be cured. Bah.

Peaches

02-11-2005, 01:42 PM

I think I have ADD and I think I've always had it. It's never been diagnosed and I really don't need to take anything for it, but I do realize in hindsight that I probably could have benefited from therapy/medication or at least someone being aware of it when I was in school.

grimm

02-11-2005, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by Peaches@Feb 11 2005, 10:43 AM
I think I have ADD and I think I've always had it. It's never been diagnosed and I really don't need to take anything for it, but I do realize in hindsight that I probably could have benefited from therapy/medication or at least someone being aware of it when I was in school.
if it aint broke dont fix it;)

if it isnt causing a problem in your life, like a lack of function at something important to you, then technically, it isnt a disorder.

Drug companies want to sell drugs.. research and developement costs are in the billions.. so they are very convincing that every "disorder" needs treating.

even mild bipoars can go without treatment, as long as the highs and the lows dont effect their lives or make them a threat to themselves and others.

Raven.. substituting herbal rememdies for prescriptions is very dangerous.. Digitalis is a perfect example... used properly, in the correct synthesized form, it strenghtens the heart muscle and is a treatment for weak valve syndrome or forms of cardiomyopathy. it can stop an arythmia or tacicardia on a dime... also it can be used to stop seizures, and can be far more beneficial than tegretol, depakote or other anticonvulsives.

but if taken without supervision, in an herbal form, it can stop your heart dead in its tracks. can cause your brain to seize and die...

Lithium is a natural occuring element.. it is also a salt.. taking anything that contains natural lithium in it can lead to electrolytic shock and death.

just because it is Natural, does not make it safe for use...

and all herbal and prescription remedies can effect your liver.. so i wouldnt take anything without getting an Liver Function Test first.

Peaches

02-11-2005, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by grimm@Feb 11 2005, 02:53 PM
if it aint broke dont fix it;)

if it isnt causing a problem in your life, like a lack of function at something important to you, then technically, it isnt a disorder.
I agree which is why I have no desire to do anything about it now. This way I have something to blame my "ditzy-ness" on :)

But I think I would have done a lot better in school had I been diagnosed then. No one could understand why I was in the top percentile in aptitude tests, but did horrible in school. :P

pushpills

02-11-2005, 02:03 PM

I will on monday. :cryin:

Peaches

02-11-2005, 02:06 PM

I've told this story before, but for those who haven't heard it:

I've had migraines since I was 13 and one of the prophylactics for it is anti-depression medication. I've tried several and most had absolutely zero effect on me, including not helping the migraines. Understand that when you spend 3-5 days a month curled up in a ball because of the pain, you're willing to try ANYTHING.

However, they tried me once on Prozac. I started at 10mg I think (maybe 5) for 5 days - nothing, so he had me double it. Within 48 hours I went into a deep chemical depression. It was the most bizarre thing I have ever experienced. I literally felt like a heavy black cloud was over me. I couldn't convince myself to get out of bed, off the toilet, out of my chair, etc. THANKFULLY I knew what was going on, stopped taking the stuff and was fine in another 48 hours. But it really gave me an insight to what people with chemical depression go through. :( The doctor said this happens to a very, very small percentage of people who take it for non-depression reasons. It freaked me out so bad that when I fill out medical forms and they ask me what I'm allergic to, I put down Prozac. I don't want someone giving it to me for ANY reason.

Raven

02-11-2005, 02:19 PM

I'm with you, Grimm.....lithium has such a narrow range for toxicity....just a tiny bit too much can be lethal...

We don't have foxglove plants around our house, because dogs can eat it and die.

What people don't know can kill them and often does. They listen to the hype and call their docs...the docs prescribe..and the people believe this magic bullshit of advertising.

The one that has me roaring these days is the nexium commercials, and yes I realise I'm moving away from natural herbal products...this acid reflux thing....Christ, give me a break.
Change your damned diet.....stop eating the foods that give you heartburn.

Tums is another one. It has ingredients in it that make you need it more.....the more often you use them, the more you need to take it. It's called sales.

We as a people do not want the hard road. We continue to eat the foods which hurt us...take pills which only mask symptoms for the short term...we live our lives as if our bodies and minds can adapt...and the body and mind will do anything to avoid pain....it adapts as best it can....and, then we are surprised when the body says 'you win' and explodes.

All these disorders....did it occur to anyone that they are just another marketing campaign?

We all had ADD as children. Go look at the list of symptoms for ADD.....it's a syndrome..a set of behaviours...there isn't a child in the world that didn't qualify....

Acid reflux? Give me a break.

Depression? Who hasn't been depressed?

Peaches....I don't know anything about your headaches, but let me ask you this? Were you given an EEG before they diagnosed you with migraines?

Peaches

02-11-2005, 02:26 PM

Originally posted by Raven@Feb 11 2005, 03:20 PM
Peaches....I don't know anything about your headaches, but let me ask you this? Were you given an EEG before they diagnosed you with migraines?
Oh yeah, I've had EEG's, CAT scans, thyroid tests - you name it, I've had it. And I've tried every kind of medication for them and even relaxation and biofeedback therapy. Imitrex is the only thing that works and I'm starting to build up a tolerance for it. Even the other triptans don't work.

Warning for guys - TMI to follow: It's associated with my menstrual cycle. Every female on my mother's side of the family has had them. When I was pregnant, I didn't have a single one. Made me want to stay pregnant forever :P My mother's stopped when she hit menopause, but they started up again about 10 years later, but not as bad as before. I can tell you within 12 hours of when I'm going to start my period by when I have my headaches. Weather fronts get me too. If I knew 100% if would help, I'd get a hysterectomy tomorrow.

grimm

02-11-2005, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by Peaches+Feb 11 2005, 11:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Feb 11 2005, 11:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-grimm@Feb 11 2005, 02:53 PM
if it aint broke dont fix it;)

if it isnt causing a problem in your life, like a lack of function at something important to you, then technically, it isnt a disorder.
I agree which is why I have no desire to do anything about it now. This way I have something to blame my "ditzy-ness" on :)

But I think I would have done a lot better in school had I been diagnosed then. No one could understand why I was in the top percentile in aptitude tests, but did horrible in school. :P [/b][/quote]
thats also a sign of high intelligence, low school grades are often due to disinterest or boredom;) maybe you were just too smart:)

then again, your school days were before they started putting ritalin in the water:)

grimm

02-11-2005, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by Peaches@Feb 11 2005, 11:07 AM
I've told this story before, but for those who haven't heard it:

I've had migraines since I was 13 and one of the prophylactics for it is anti-depression medication. I've tried several and most had absolutely zero effect on me, including not helping the migraines. Understand that when you spend 3-5 days a month curled up in a ball because of the pain, you're willing to try ANYTHING.

However, they tried me once on Prozac. I started at 10mg I think (maybe 5) for 5 days - nothing, so he had me double it. Within 48 hours I went into a deep chemical depression. It was the most bizarre thing I have ever experienced. I literally felt like a heavy black cloud was over me. I couldn't convince myself to get out of bed, off the toilet, out of my chair, etc. THANKFULLY I knew what was going on, stopped taking the stuff and was fine in another 48 hours. But it really gave me an insight to what people with chemical depression go through. :( The doctor said this happens to a very, very small percentage of people who take it for non-depression reasons. It freaked me out so bad that when I fill out medical forms and they ask me what I'm allergic to, I put down Prozac. I don't want someone giving it to me for ANY reason.
peaches.. thats odd for such a low dose.. sounds like a chemical allergic reaction.. minimum dosage for prozac is usually 10-20mg, ramped up over a two week period... if you go off of it suddenly, not ramping down your dosage.. it is very dangerous.. severe depression can often result...

with any SSRI it takes a while for the levels to be such in your brain that a plateau is reached and a difference can be felt.. normally a two week period, depending on the dosage and the half-life of the chemiacl compound.. then the SSRI (selective seretonin uptake inhibitor) can work, keeping seretonin flooded to a degree in your synapses, creating a stable level, and hence a stable mood.. In bipolar or manic patients, prozac often elevates the highs too much and needs to be moderated with an anticonvulsant, such as depakote. but in a person who is suffering from just depression... the levels stay such that moods do not drastically elevate or depress drastically, or at least thats the idea.. everyones body chemistry is different, and sensetivityand tolerance are higher in some than others. so reactions should be monitored by a psychiatrist or primary care physician.

Maybe you were misdiagnosed, or have an allergy to one of the mixing reagents, or such a low tolerance that it upset the balance too much

grimm

02-11-2005, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by pushpills@Feb 11 2005, 11:04 AM
I will on monday. :cryin:
awww... im telling you, quick hitter to vegas, no moping:)

heres a crossover... my side effect for zoloft was exactly what you were looking for with your little blue pill;)

grimm

02-11-2005, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by Peaches+Feb 11 2005, 11:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Feb 11 2005, 11:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Raven@Feb 11 2005, 03:20 PM
Peaches....I don't know anything about your headaches, but let me ask you this? Were you given an EEG before they diagnosed you with migraines?
Oh yeah, I've had EEG's, CAT scans, thyroid tests - you name it, I've had it. And I've tried every kind of medication for them and even relaxation and biofeedback therapy. Imitrex is the only thing that works and I'm starting to build up a tolerance for it. Even the other triptans don't work.

Warning for guys - TMI to follow: It's associated with my menstrual cycle. Every female on my mother's side of the family has had them. When I was pregnant, I didn't have a single one. Made me want to stay pregnant forever :P My mother's stopped when she hit menopause, but they started up again about 10 years later, but not as bad as before. I can tell you within 12 hours of when I'm going to start my period by when I have my headaches. Weather fronts get me too. If I knew 100% if would help, I'd get a hysterectomy tomorrow. [/b][/quote]
one of many reasons i am glad i dont get a period.

hormonal levels are so shot during a menstrual cycle that anything could be the cause of it. Migraines suck. ive never had them, but i have friends that do. ouch.:(

grimm

02-11-2005, 02:46 PM

peaches... do you ever have epileptic episodes or night terrors, or did you when you were younger? im sure you've asked but somebody in your condition could have mild epilepsy with some sort of hormonal trigger. just a thought.

grimm

02-11-2005, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by Raven@Feb 11 2005, 11:20 AM
I'm with you, Grimm.....lithium has such a narrow range for toxicity....just a tiny bit too much can be lethal...

We don't have foxglove plants around our house, because dogs can eat it and die.

What people don't know can kill them and often does. They listen to the hype and call their docs...the docs prescribe..and the people believe this magic bullshit of advertising.

The one that has me roaring these days is the nexium commercials, and yes I realise I'm moving away from natural herbal products...this acid reflux thing....Christ, give me a break.
Change your damned diet.....stop eating the foods that give you heartburn.

Tums is another one. It has ingredients in it that make you need it more.....the more often you use them, the more you need to take it. It's called sales.

We as a people do not want the hard road. We continue to eat the foods which hurt us...take pills which only mask symptoms for the short term...we live our lives as if our bodies and minds can adapt...and the body and mind will do anything to avoid pain....it adapts as best it can....and, then we are surprised when the body says 'you win' and explodes.

All these disorders....did it occur to anyone that they are just another marketing campaign?

We all had ADD as children. Go look at the list of symptoms for ADD.....it's a syndrome..a set of behaviours...there isn't a child in the world that didn't qualify....

Acid reflux? Give me a break.

Depression? Who hasn't been depressed?

Peaches....I don't know anything about your headaches, but let me ask you this? Were you given an EEG before they diagnosed you with migraines?
the acid reflux stuff is for real.. there is a valve that controls backflow from your upper GI system into your esophagus.. i have a good friend who had this before all those prescription, now OTC medicines.. but people think heartburn is acid reflux all the time. sure, a prilosec will treat the symptoms of heartburn, but because it works doesnt mean your esophogeal valve is weak.

as for dogs.. cocoa beans are lethal, the theobromine in them can killl a dog. dont have cocoa beans? probably have a hershey bar laying around though:(

grimm

02-11-2005, 02:56 PM

grimm

02-11-2005, 02:56 PM

doh double post.. board locked up on me.. must be the St Johns wart people or the stonemasons:)

Peaches

02-11-2005, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by grimm@Feb 11 2005, 03:47 PM
peaches... do you ever have epileptic episodes or night terrors, or did you when you were younger? im sure you've asked but somebody in your condition could have mild epilepsy with some sort of hormonal trigger. just a thought.
Never. But they did try me on some anti-seizure medications for migraines also. I've taken three different ones I think. Nothing did anything at all except for one that made my night vision almost non-existent because I would see "light trails" and it made my extremities feel like they were asleep with the painful prickliness ALL the time.

Inderal did OK for years. I took it daily and had fewer headaches with less severity. I stopped taking it a few years ago because it was making me tired all the time. When I went back to take it again after a year or so because of how bad the headaches were, it didn't work anymore. I might try it again though. My body chemistry is just whacked I think!

Whenever something new comes out, I research it and call the Dr. :)

grimm

02-11-2005, 03:00 PM

ouch.. like you have to take on one pain or problem to alleviate another.

Peaches

02-11-2005, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by grimm@Feb 11 2005, 04:01 PM
ouch.. like you have to take on one pain or problem to alleviate another.
Yeah. I guess after 30 years I'm just used to dealing with it. The Imitrex is really the elixir of the gods for me though :) Just wish I wasn't getting a tolerance for it.

DrGuile

02-11-2005, 03:05 PM

I have mild migraines(diagnosed by a doctor) when Im extremely tired and/or stresed over a period of a few days.... and oinions seem to be a trigger also.

Happens maybe twice a year...

grimm

02-11-2005, 03:05 PM

be nice to have something to counter-balance with it.

SykkBoy

02-11-2005, 03:11 PM

I'm too busy wondering about who I'm going to beat the shit out of to be depressed...

oops, time for another zoloft
;-))

Anthony

02-11-2005, 03:16 PM

I suffer from ADD, since childhood. I have no idea how I get things done, really.

Also slightly manic and bi polar. I haven't killed myself yet, so I figure I'll stay off the drugs.

But man, self medicating was fun.

Nickatilynx

02-11-2005, 03:18 PM

Just throwing in a .....Ya know....

When I was at school/college (I'm 44) no one I knew suffered from allergies

At my childrens school , you cannot wear any fragrance nor bring nuts into the school.

There are a least 6 kids I know of with the allergies...

Additionally no child was being treated for depression , anxiety , or ADD ADHD etc...

they were classed as "little shits" :)

I raised this with a Shrink I know...

The comments were...

1.) No one had time to consider these problems , they worked and slept.
2.) They self medicated.He did in fact say that my Irish background is in part responsible for drinking to excess it is partly genetic and societal.

nlphoto

02-11-2005, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by SykkBoy@Feb 11 2005, 01:12 PM
I'm too busy wondering about who I'm going to beat the shit out of to be depressed...

oops, time for another zoloft
;-))
Combined with your current avatar, mebbe 2 ? :rolleyes:

Can I nominate the entire thread for a :pearl: ?

Have dealt with the same things both in my online business, and offline since
by my choice, I have always preferred either 2nd or 3rd shift. I bounce back
and forth at times (worked the last six weeks of 2004 doing 10 hour shifts
9PM to 7AM).

Am I depressed ? probably, but I've never been willing to check out "herbal"
for exactly what Grimmy and others have posted...

Anyone that knows me, knows I'd be in the "why be normal?" t-shirt anyways... :)

SykkBoy

02-11-2005, 03:53 PM

I think all creative people have some sort of issues with despression, bi-polar, ADD, etc.

I think that "edge" is what gives us the creativity...

SykkBoy

02-11-2005, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Feb 11 2005, 03:19 PM
Just throwing in a .....Ya know....

When I was at school/college (I'm 44) no one I knew suffered from allergies

At my childrens school , you cannot wear any fragrance nor bring nuts into the school.

There are a least 6 kids I know of with the allergies...

Additionally no child was being treated for depression , anxiety , or ADD ADHD etc...

they were classed as "little shits" :)

I raised this with a Shrink I know...

The comments were...

1.) No one had time to consider these problems , they worked and slept.
2.) They self medicated.He did in fact say that my Irish background is in part responsible for drinking to excess it is partly genetic and societal.
yeah, I think people are more aware of these issues

I can't go into one of those Bed and Bath stores without my allergies going nuts...my wife can't wear certain types of perfumes and I have to have special shampoos, soaps and even shaving cream as I can't handle any sort of perfumes, colognes, etc. (btw, Aveeno products rock for people with frangrance allergies ;-))

Also, it used to be if a child was way way out of line, they were referred to as "shits" or just beaten...if someone had mental issues, they were locked up in an instituition or the family closet...

While I think there are way too many parents who simply give in and medicate their difficult children, it is important that we stay aware of these issues

Some of you know, my oldest son has selective mutism. At 9 years of age, he's never spoken a single word in school, he almost never talks when we are out in public and he won't even talk to some of our relatives. Years ago, he would have been classified as shy and put into a special ed program, when in reality he has this anxiety disorder than renders him unable to speak. He communicates to his teacher with sign language and for his reading assignments, he reads to me at home into a tape recorder, then takes the tape back to the school the next day to play for his class. He made a breakthrough by ordering from the ice cream truck driver himself and I lamost broke down in tears...him doing that is the equivelent of one of us walking on hot coals...most kids who have it, grow out of it but often get left behind in their studies because teachers just dismiss them as shy.

It is amazing the way these things are now publicly known and we have communications tools we didn't have several decades or even years ago

I fear us becoming too medicated of a society though as people will start to demand a medical solution to every problem (and degrading recogniztion for real problems).

grimm

02-11-2005, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by SykkBoy@Feb 11 2005, 01:03 PM

I can't go into one of those Bed and Bath stores without my allergies going nuts...my wife can't wear certain types of perfumes and I have to have special shampoos, soaps and even shaving cream as I can't handle any sort of perfumes, colognes, etc. (btw, Aveeno products rock for people with frangrance allergies ;-))

fucking movie theatres get me every time, for some reason

Raven

02-11-2005, 04:35 PM

Grimm, my only point with acid reflux....is there are WAY too many people being diagnosed with it....

"The esophagus is separated from the stomach by a valve or sphincter. The lower esophageal sphincter is normally closed . Heartburn is caused by the reflux, or movement, of stomach acid into the esophagus.except during swallowing. The sphincter keeps the stomach contents from refluxing or returning into the esophagus. Heartburn occurs when the pressure in the stomach overcomes this valve and forces the stomach acid into the esophagus. This can occur when the valve or sphincter is too weak to prevent the reflux or when the amount of stomach acid is too great to be kept in the stomach."

Thing is...it's a one way door....usually. What goes down doesn't usually come back up.

It is rare that it mal functions. When it does, it's pretty serious and can cause esophageal varices and other conditions.

Most people have heartburn, which is not acid reflux. If I were to believe the commercials, everyone has it, just like everyone has ADD.

Nick. This thing with allergies. I was working with a child whose behaviour was psychotic. So psychotic, that, at the age of five, he was being considered for permanent residence within an institutional setting.

Unfortunately, in this kid's history, there was mention of allergy testing, which by all indications....he had none.

Finally, as a last ditch effort, the team came up with a plan to with hold all foods and give this kid a drug holiday, in a controlled environment.

Within 24 hours, the psychotic episodes had lessened. Within a week, the episodes had stopped.

We began adding foods back and wham! This kid tried to murder his mother.

It was orange juice.

Sigh.

No one had tested for orange juice.

Peaches. I've seen people react pretty violently and in bizarre ways to certain foods. There are, especially for headache sufferers, http://www.drkoop.com/encyclopedia/43/282.html -- that's just one of the sources....not saying that's the cause; but, it could be a contributing factor....
Isn't there another drug that just came out...that is supposed to be the wonder drug for migraines?

Anthony....Being slightly manic and bi polar is like being a little bit pregnant.....You either have it or you don't. You can have some personality traits that lead you to some manic behaviours; but, you're not bi polar unless you are.

I think the pendulum has swung too far the other way. Back when I was a child, behavioural problems were dealt with behind closed doors and not tolerated, regardless of the cause. It wasn't until recently that we even dealt with physical, emotional or sexual abuse....or allergies......

Sorry for the book, folks...but we live in an over medicated, over analysed society who throws pills at problems without proper diagnosis..and the lack of common sense overwhelms me.

Until people get educated; and, I mean the kind of education that forces them to 'learn' their bodies....unique and special and not text book....and, until doctors learn to listen and ask the right questions.....until people take some accountability and stop looking for that magic cure.....

Until insurance companies stop fucking around with our health and the pharmaceutical companies start producing ethical information commercials....well, we're pretty much fucked.

Peaches

02-11-2005, 04:44 PM

Originally posted by Raven@Feb 11 2005, 05:36 PM
Peaches. I've seen people react pretty violently and in bizarre ways to certain foods. There are, especially for headache sufferers, http://www.drkoop.com/encyclopedia/43/282.html -- that's just one of the sources....not saying that's the cause; but, it could be a contributing factor....

Been there, done that :( We did that years ago where I ate nothing but rice and water for 24 hours (or so) then slowly added foods to see if there was something I was eating causing the migraines. Nothing.

Isn't there another drug that just came out...that is supposed to be the wonder drug for migraines?
If you're talking about the recent ads, well, it's new to the public :awinky: I tried it over a year ago. It was one of the anti-seizure medications I tried.

Almighty Colin

02-11-2005, 04:49 PM

Jesus, y'all are a mess. I never figured I was the normal one.

*KK*

02-11-2005, 04:51 PM

I don't get depressed, I get even.

grimm

02-11-2005, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by Raven@Feb 11 2005, 01:36 PM

Thing is...it's a one way door....usually. What goes down doesn't usually come back up.

Yes it works almost exactly like a ventricular valve, one way in, any backwash and thats a problem..

grimm

02-11-2005, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by Almighty Colin@Feb 11 2005, 01:50 PM
Jesus, y'all are a mess. I never figured I was the normal one.
physician, heal thyself!

grimm

02-11-2005, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by Raven@Feb 11 2005, 01:36 PM

Anthony....Being slightly manic and bi polar is like being a little bit pregnant.....You either have it or you don't. You can have some personality traits that lead you to some manic behaviours; but, you're not bi polar unless you are.

not necessarily true, Raven.. you can be manic, or depressive, or both, to varying degrees... Bi-Polar disorder can come in varying degrees.. from the slow to fast cycling bipolars.. depending on how fast you switch from highs to lows.. also, the length of your mani and depression are factors too.. are you so depressed you dont get out of bed and have suicidal thoughts, or so manic you have homicidal or irrational thoughts.. sever manic episodes can even trigger schizophrenic breaks.. leading to much more dangerous disorders..

heres a good definition of bipolar disorder from wikopedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder

grimm

02-11-2005, 05:10 PM

also, there is a definite link between high/low blood sugar and mania..

Anthony

02-11-2005, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by SykkBoy+Feb 11 2005, 01:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SykkBoy @ Feb 11 2005, 01:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Feb 11 2005, 03:19 PM
Just throwing in a .....Ya know....

When I was at school/college (I'm 44) no one I knew suffered from allergies

At my childrens school , you cannot wear any fragrance nor bring nuts into the school.

There are a least 6 kids I know of with the allergies...

Additionally no child was being treated for depression , anxiety , or ADD ADHD etc...

they were classed as "little shits" :)

I raised this with a Shrink I know...

The comments were...

1.) No one had time to consider these problems , they worked and slept.
2.) They self medicated.He did in fact say that my Irish background is in part responsible for drinking to excess it is partly genetic and societal.
yeah, I think people are more aware of these issues

I can't go into one of those Bed and Bath stores without my allergies going nuts...my wife can't wear certain types of perfumes and I have to have special shampoos, soaps and even shaving cream as I can't handle any sort of perfumes, colognes, etc. (btw, Aveeno products rock for people with frangrance allergies ;-))

Also, it used to be if a child was way way out of line, they were referred to as "shits" or just beaten...if someone had mental issues, they were locked up in an instituition or the family closet...

While I think there are way too many parents who simply give in and medicate their difficult children, it is important that we stay aware of these issues

Some of you know, my oldest son has selective mutism. At 9 years of age, he's never spoken a single word in school, he almost never talks when we are out in public and he won't even talk to some of our relatives. Years ago, he would have been classified as shy and put into a special ed program, when in reality he has this anxiety disorder than renders him unable to speak. He communicates to his teacher with sign language and for his reading assignments, he reads to me at home into a tape recorder, then takes the tape back to the school the next day to play for his class. He made a breakthrough by ordering from the ice cream truck driver himself and I lamost broke down in tears...him doing that is the equivelent of one of us walking on hot coals...most kids who have it, grow out of it but often get left behind in their studies because teachers just dismiss them as shy.

It is amazing the way these things are now publicly known and we have communications tools we didn't have several decades or even years ago

I fear us becoming too medicated of a society though as people will start to demand a medical solution to every problem (and degrading recogniztion for real problems). [/b][/quote]
Little bastard has a mean right hook though!

Try sports with him Lance. His face just lit up when I told him to kick and punch at my hands.

Him actually hitting and kicking surprised even me. :)

Anthony

02-11-2005, 05:32 PM

The thing I've noticed is tha I don't notice when I get manic. I always thought I get excited alot.

The Bi Polar I think I've got kicked. I don't have problems with it when I stay healthy and excercise. I'm just too fucking tired to have highs and lows.

Generally I'm a happy go lucky kinda guy.

MissEve

02-11-2005, 05:33 PM

Peaches, what happens if you take birth control pills and just skip your periods?

grimm

02-11-2005, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by MissEve@Feb 11 2005, 02:34 PM
Peaches, what happens if you take birth control pills and just skip your periods?
many people skip their periods i am skipping my periods right now what happens when yhou skip your periods run on sentances is what happens my english teachers warned against skipping periods and commas.

Peaches

02-11-2005, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by MissEve@Feb 11 2005, 06:34 PM
Peaches, what happens if you take birth control pills and just skip your periods?
Tried that too - my period is stronger than the pill - I had one every month even when I took the pills nonstop.

I wanted to take the Depo-provera shot but the Dr. said I'd have the same results. That was a year or so ago and IMHO, he wasn't very agressive (then again, he's not a neurologist, it was my OB/GYN). I have an appointment soon with my regular internist (who is also a good friend from before he was a Dr. and he's good about letting me "try" stuff) and I'm going to talk to him about it.

I had the same thought you did - if the periods make me sick, let's get rid of them :)

Peaches

02-11-2005, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by grimm+Feb 11 2005, 06:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (grimm @ Feb 11 2005, 06:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-MissEve@Feb 11 2005, 02:34 PM
Peaches, what happens if you take birth control pills and just skip your periods?
many people skip their periods i am skipping my periods right now what happens when yhou skip your periods run on sentances is what happens my english teachers warned against skipping periods and commas. [/b][/quote]
Butthead :lol:

grimm

02-11-2005, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by Peaches+Feb 11 2005, 02:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Feb 11 2005, 02:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-MissEve@Feb 11 2005, 06:34 PM
Peaches, what happens if you take birth control pills and just skip your periods?
Tried that too - my period is stronger than the pill - I had one every month even when I took the pills nonstop.

I wanted to take the Depo-provera shot but the Dr. said I'd have the same results. That was a year or so ago and IMHO, he wasn't very agressive (then again, he's not a neurologist, it was my OB/GYN). I have an appointment soon with my regular internist (who is also a good friend from before he was a Dr. and he's good about letting me "try" stuff) and I'm going to talk to him about it.

I had the same thought you did - if the periods make me sick, let's get rid of them :) [/b][/quote]
you got Georgia Breeding Hormones in you. Stronger than Louisiana breeding hormones, but nothing compared to Mexican Breeding Hormones.

RyanLanane

02-11-2005, 06:13 PM

Originally posted by grimm+Feb 11 2005, 02:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (grimm @ Feb 11 2005, 02:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Raven@Feb 11 2005, 01:36 PM

Anthony....Being slightly manic and bi polar is like being a little bit pregnant.....You either have it or you don't. You can have some personality traits that lead you to some manic behaviours; but, you're not bi polar unless you are.

not necessarily true, Raven.. you can be manic, or depressive, or both, to varying degrees... Bi-Polar disorder can come in varying degrees.. from the slow to fast cycling bipolars.. depending on how fast you switch from highs to lows.. also, the length of your mani and depression are factors too.. are you so depressed you dont get out of bed and have suicidal thoughts, or so manic you have homicidal or irrational thoughts.. sever manic episodes can even trigger schizophrenic breaks.. leading to much more dangerous disorders..

heres a good definition of bipolar disorder from wikopedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder[/b][/quote]
I had major agoraphobia after 2 1/2 years in this business. So severe I was afraid to go out to Dinner with my girlfriend, walk to the mailbox to get my mail, or even answer my door when the fed-ex guy dropped off the checks. I switched to bank wires and sent the authorization forms by fax from a Brother fax machine I had at home my ole lady bought for me and brought home. I was a complete mess.

What made it worse? I went to see three different psychiatrists who all told me "We are sorry we can't help you, you should call the pyschological institute for a referral and explain to them what your problem is". The problem was, that is how I got there numbers. Talk about scary shit, I thought I was going to die literally from going insane, yet I could really work my ass off was the upside and I made myself FILTHY FUCKING RICH :)

Anyways I find a psychologist and at first I have social anxiety disorder.. so I take a multitude of drugs and ALL of them had horracious side effects. AS recently as a year ago I tried kicking back to Paxil from Wellbutrin, I also tried the 10 mg and oh my god that stuff really made a mess out of me. To boot for 3 solid days after I quit taking it I had the worst depression of my LIFE.

The next psychiatrist really got into my mind, and hit alot of spots and things I never even noticed before.. Highs and Lows fluctuating in my life. Of course the highs didn't bother me, I worked for 36 hours straight and felt I had accomplished a great deal of work. The lows however were win I got frustrated. I also have a VERY rapid cycling of the two. I can literally go through the two cycles of the Bipolar syndrome multiple times per day, that's how out of whack my system is (proably because I quite taking depakote eventually). This guy gives me depakote, wellbutrin, and Xanax.

To this day I take 2-3 mg Xanax a day, people ask me how I do it when they get high as hell off of one, I just tell them I have such a tolerance after 4-5 years of use I could probably take 20 and it wouldn't affect me. I take 2 150 mg Wellbutrin a day. And I quit taking Serzone/Depakote because that stuff pushed my cycles to a consistent level below the average (in other words I was always more depresed, fateigued, etc). I am fine without the Depakote/Serzone (not to mention I don't miss the liver blood tests every 6 months) but I did have to learn to deal with the cycles and try to remedy them myself using the Well Butrin to keep me away from the negatives.

The mania I can control, the depression can REALLY get to me. It hit me hard a couple days ago and I slept for 13 hours... Wasn't a thing I could do, but those bouts don't hit often at all any more.

I am social and outgoing for the most part now, I may feel akward if someone I don't know introduces themselves to me for a few but I adjust. What really gets me is I am NOT on any SSRI's and the half life of xanax being what it is the xanax is NOT what is doing it by itself, the more I get out the less social anxiety I have - I think if I had a real Job the social anxiety would dissapear altogether w/o any Xanax (although weaning off that would be a bitch!) So overall I am much better. But I am living proof that you aren't a total psychotic just because you have Bi-Polar despite the way T.V. potrays the disease.

grimm

02-11-2005, 06:27 PM

Agoraphobia is very common.. its an adaptive disorder.. you spend so much time indoors, that you develope an attachment to one place. A sense of security that becomes an axiety disorder. Like all anxieties, there is a trigger, and a barrier where the anxiety becomes intolerable. the trigger in this case would be the need to go to the mailbox.. the barrier being the front door. This manifests in a physiological reaction.. blood pressure and heart rate goes up, breathing shortens and shallows, muscles cramp and twich. It is not a true phobia as it isnt a fear by definition. There are quite a few medications that can treat Agoraphobia.. Xanax or Colonopin work, they are short term anti anxiety medications..they can get you out the door. The problem with true agoraphobia is that the next secure location you are in when the drugs wear off becomes your prison... the cycle repeats. It is not social anxiety disorder at all. Paxil is used to treat Social Anxiety disorder, which is defined as, duh.. Anxiety caused by the trigger of a social or busy setting.. the response being the same flight mechanism that keeps Agoraphobics inside, but in reverse. Often misdiagnosed and treated wrongly, Agoraphobia has genetic links, can be tied to drug use, especially stimulants, or other drugs which consistantly cause a severe paranoid reaction.

anyway.. i digress;) your severe depression was probably caused by yanking yourself off of an SSRI that had already ramped up to the plateud dosage levels. its a sudden reuptake of Seratonin that can floor you. in other words you crash hard.

grimm

02-11-2005, 06:37 PM

your body will try to jerk itself, at all costs, into a natural rhythm.. a wake or sleep pattern, a work pattern, a play pattern, an eating/drinking pattern.. the body is adeptly tuned to adapt to whatever you throw at it. Alchoholism, Eating Disorders, "Addictive personalities" are all examples of how the body copes with unnatural patterns being fed through it. When we rail against the adapted patterns, anxiety can be a symptom. when we completely rewire ourselves to a normal rhythm, we go through another adaptive process (withdrawal) where one set of norms is replaced by another.. from 24/7 to 9-5 or from coffee to heroin, not a nice process. In the end though, the body fully adapts if you let it.

The need for medication is hand in hand with the outside social stressors that force people into certain patterns. Banks are only open certain hours. You have to be at work by 9, school starts early, the post office closes early, etc... you are expected to squeeze your life into this, because that is the only way to function in a "normal" society.. the well adjusted can handle it, the not so well adjusted need a little help.

Ive yet to meet a well adjusted adult;) never mind a webmaster:) but who am i kidding, im nuts:)

Newton

02-11-2005, 06:50 PM

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.02/s...tw=wn_tophead_4 (http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.02/start.html?pg=9?tw=wn_tophead_4)

Raven

02-11-2005, 07:09 PM

One can have obsessive/compulsive traits and not have OCD, Grimm.
It's the same thing with bi polar disorder...one can have manic episodes without actually having the disorder....

And, at the end of the day, we call it the practise of medicine because we haven't perfected it yet.

grimm

02-11-2005, 07:13 PM

Originally posted by Raven@Feb 11 2005, 04:10 PM
One can have obsessive/compulsive traits and not have OCD, Grimm.
It's the same thing with bi polar disorder...one can have manic episodes without actually having the disorder....

And, at the end of the day, we call it the practise of medicine because we haven't perfected it yet.
agreed on all points, i wasnt disagreeing:) whod have thought that a post about st johns wart would have 60 something responses..lol..

Ryan.. just reread your post.. Xanax has the same effect on me.. i do not get high at all, i calm down. its body chemisty dude, and an order/disorder sort of paradox:)

Nickatilynx

02-11-2005, 07:14 PM

Ive yet to meet a well adjusted adult;) never mind a webmaster:) but who am i kidding, im nuts:)

If you think or even suspect that you are insane its highly probable you aren't.

:)

Raven

02-11-2005, 07:16 PM

I know you weren't disagreeing, Grimm.....it's been an interesting discussion....considering it started about st. john's wort.....don't even get me started on vitamins and that little blindfold over people's eyes....oh yeah, and milk...and wheat......oy vey!

Raven

02-11-2005, 07:16 PM

Damn, Nick. I've been using the insanity defense for years. Now you're telling me I'm most likely not?

grimm

02-11-2005, 07:17 PM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Feb 11 2005, 04:15 PM
Ive yet to meet a well adjusted adult;) never mind a webmaster:) but who am i kidding, im nuts:)

If you think or even suspect that you are insane its highly probable you aren't.

:)
:awinky:

grimm

02-11-2005, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by Raven@Feb 11 2005, 04:17 PM
I know you weren't disagreeing, Grimm.....it's been an interesting discussion....considering it started about st. john's wort.....don't even get me started on vitamins and that little blindfold over people's eyes....oh yeah, and milk...and wheat......oy vey!
yeah you want to try explaining to every american who was raised on 3 glasses of milk a day how bad the shit is for you:) you thought the carb/fat myth took a few years to get some credit.... hahahaha

SykkBoy

02-11-2005, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by Anthony@Feb 11 2005, 05:28 PM
Little bastard has a mean right hook though!

Try sports with him Lance. His face just lit up when I told him to kick and punch at my hands.

Him actually hitting and kicking surprised even me. :)
hahah, yeah he does

we've had problems getting him signed up for sports because of his lack of communication, but I've tried music and that's helped a lot

he wouldn't play for you, but he played at a recent school pageant....he played "Iron Man" and got me in trouble (I'm the VP of the PTO board and ok'd the song for the pageant ;-)) but the music has definitely helped during his higher stress times...

I'm also thinking of taking him down to the local karate school and enrolling with him and do it as a father-son thing and see if that helps as well

Nickatilynx

02-11-2005, 07:21 PM

Why be insane when you can be eccentric ?:)

Insane is so...I don't know..... lower class ;-))))

Peaches

02-11-2005, 07:28 PM

Don't even THINK of trying to get me to give up my milk!! :grrr:

Raven

02-11-2005, 07:37 PM

I wouldn't dare, Peaches....:) Even though milk has been associated with so many ailments....and we are the only mammals who do not wean....

Nick. You are so right. From now on, I shall be eccentric. It suits my classiness.

Nickatilynx

02-11-2005, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by Raven@Feb 11 2005, 04:38 PM
I wouldn't dare, Peaches....:) Even though milk has been associated with so many ailments....and we are the only mammals who do not wean....

Nick. You are so right. From now on, I shall be eccentric. It suits my classiness.
Excellent! I'm as eccentric as a motherfucker myself. :)

Peaches

02-11-2005, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by Raven@Feb 11 2005, 08:38 PM
I wouldn't dare, Peaches....:) Even though milk has been associated with so many ailments....and we are the only mammals who do not wean....

We are the only mammals who cook their food, wear clothes and drive cars too. :awinky:

There are a LOT of things I do that are bad for me - drinking milk is probably the very least of my worries. :okthumb:

Raven

02-11-2005, 07:48 PM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Feb 11 2005, 04:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Feb 11 2005, 04:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Raven@Feb 11 2005, 04:38 PM
I wouldn't dare, Peaches....:) Even though milk has been associated with so many ailments....and we are the only mammals who do not wean....

Nick. You are so right. From now on, I shall be eccentric. It suits my classiness.
Excellent! I'm as eccentric as a motherfucker myself. :) [/b][/quote]
We really must arrange a dinner....and exchange eccentricities, Nick. :)

Raven

02-11-2005, 07:49 PM

I love you, Peaches, and I always want to be your friend.

You drink milk.....with my blessing....:)

MissEve

02-11-2005, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by grimm+Feb 11 2005, 05:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (grimm @ Feb 11 2005, 05:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Peaches@Feb 11 2005, 02:40 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-MissEve@Feb 11 2005, 06:34 PM
Peaches, what happens if you take birth control pills and just skip your periods?
Tried that too - my period is stronger than the pill - I had one every month even when I took the pills nonstop.

I wanted to take the Depo-provera shot but the Dr. said I'd have the same results. That was a year or so ago and IMHO, he wasn't very agressive (then again, he's not a neurologist, it was my OB/GYN). I have an appointment soon with my regular internist (who is also a good friend from before he was a Dr. and he's good about letting me "try" stuff) and I'm going to talk to him about it.

I had the same thought you did - if the periods make me sick, let's get rid of them :)
you got Georgia Breeding Hormones in you. Stronger than Louisiana breeding hormones, but nothing compared to Mexican Breeding Hormones. [/b][/quote]

Damn, I thought if the pill could stop the Eskimo breeding hormones it could stop anything ;) I've been skipping my periods and its so great I can't believe I havent always done it. The doctors Ive asked all say its fine although I do wonder if it might be bad for me. All I know is that Im not "sick" for a couple days a month anymore! :)

Peaches

02-11-2005, 07:58 PM

Originally posted by MissEve@Feb 11 2005, 08:54 PM
Damn, I thought if the pill could stop the Eskimo breeding hormones it could stop anything ;) I've been skipping my periods and its so great I can't believe I havent always done it. The doctors Ive asked all say its fine although I do wonder if it might be bad for me. All I know is that Im not "sick" for a couple days a month anymore! :)
Esa, what kind are you taking? I can't remember what I was on (I'm sure I have a pack somewhere because I get them free from my Mom) but I always thought it was too weak a pill.

Winetalk.com

02-11-2005, 08:02 PM

I suffer from impressions...
;)

venturi

02-11-2005, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by Raven@Feb 11 2005, 01:36 PM
Grimm, my only point with acid reflux....is there are WAY too many people being diagnosed with it....

"The esophagus is separated from the stomach by a valve or sphincter. The lower esophageal sphincter is normally closed . Heartburn is caused by the reflux, or movement, of stomach acid into the esophagus.except during swallowing. The sphincter keeps the stomach contents from refluxing or returning into the esophagus. Heartburn occurs when the pressure in the stomach overcomes this valve and forces the stomach acid into the esophagus. This can occur when the valve or sphincter is too weak to prevent the reflux or when the amount of stomach acid is too great to be kept in the stomach."

Thing is...it's a one way door....usually. What goes down doesn't usually come back up.

It is rare that it mal functions. When it does, it's pretty serious and can cause esophageal varices and other conditions.

Most people have heartburn, which is not acid reflux.
Oddly, about one third of the world population has a "hiatal hernia" - the actual cause of acid reflux, or to be more accurate esophageal reflux. Most people will live their entire lives not knowing they have this condition. A few, like myself, aren't so lucky.

Mine raged into a full blown Class A Hiatal Hernia back in 1990. It was so bad that it became rare for me to eat a meal without my esophagus fully seizing and my having to vomit the food back up until the spasms subsided. Eventually, the docs gave in to my "whining" and agreed to perform a Nisson Fundoplasty (sp?).

They opened me up, attached a plastic ring to the bottom of my esophagus and stitched the upper part of my stomach around the ring - thus creating a new valve. They also put a few sutures in my diaphragm to tighten up the hole the esophagus passes thru (the diaphragm is actually the "sphincter" you refered to earlier).

And... the procedure worked. Well, to date about 95% of the time. I still get flare ups occasionally and they suck when they happen. It literally feels like you are having a heart attack.

Yet, I agree with you about the pharm companies pitching their wares to *everybody* that gets a little heartburn occassionally is insane.

grimm

02-11-2005, 08:59 PM

Originally posted by MissEve+Feb 11 2005, 04:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MissEve @ Feb 11 2005, 04:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by grimm@Feb 11 2005, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by Peaches@Feb 11 2005, 02:40 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-MissEve@Feb 11 2005, 06:34 PM
Peaches, what happens if you take birth control pills and just skip your periods?
Tried that too - my period is stronger than the pill - I had one every month even when I took the pills nonstop.

I wanted to take the Depo-provera shot but the Dr. said I'd have the same results. That was a year or so ago and IMHO, he wasn't very agressive (then again, he's not a neurologist, it was my OB/GYN). I have an appointment soon with my regular internist (who is also a good friend from before he was a Dr. and he's good about letting me "try" stuff) and I'm going to talk to him about it.

I had the same thought you did - if the periods make me sick, let's get rid of them :)
you got Georgia Breeding Hormones in you. Stronger than Louisiana breeding hormones, but nothing compared to Mexican Breeding Hormones.

Damn, I thought if the pill could stop the Eskimo breeding hormones it could stop anything ;) I've been skipping my periods and its so great I can't believe I havent always done it. The doctors Ive asked all say its fine although I do wonder if it might be bad for me. All I know is that Im not "sick" for a couple days a month anymore! :) [/b][/quote]
do you skip first period, so you can sleep in, or last period so you can go home early?:)

grimm

02-11-2005, 09:00 PM

Originally posted by Winetalk.com@Feb 11 2005, 05:03 PM
I suffer from impressions...
;)
salvador daliism, acute clinical impressionism;)

Anthony

02-11-2005, 09:08 PM

Originally posted by grimm@Feb 11 2005, 03:38 PM
Ive yet to meet a well adjusted adult;) never mind a webmaster:) but who am i kidding, im nuts:)
:pearl: :pearl: :pearl: :pearl: :pearl: :pearl: :pearl: :pearl: :pearl: :pearl:

grimm

02-11-2005, 09:08 PM

Originally posted by venturi+Feb 11 2005, 05:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (venturi @ Feb 11 2005, 05:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Raven@Feb 11 2005, 01:36 PM
Grimm, my only point with acid reflux....is there are WAY too many people being diagnosed with it....

"The esophagus is separated from the stomach by a valve or sphincter. The lower esophageal sphincter is normally closed . Heartburn is caused by the reflux, or movement, of stomach acid into the esophagus.except during swallowing. The sphincter keeps the stomach contents from refluxing or returning into the esophagus. Heartburn occurs when the pressure in the stomach overcomes this valve and forces the stomach acid into the esophagus. This can occur when the valve or sphincter is too weak to prevent the reflux or when the amount of stomach acid is too great to be kept in the stomach."

Thing is...it's a one way door....usually. What goes down doesn't usually come back up.

It is rare that it mal functions. When it does, it's pretty serious and can cause esophageal varices and other conditions.

Most people have heartburn, which is not acid reflux.
Oddly, about one third of the world population has a "hiatal hernia" - the actual cause of acid reflux, or to be more accurate esophageal reflux. Most people will live their entire lives not knowing they have this condition. A few, like myself, aren't so lucky.

Mine raged into a full blown Class A Hiatal Hernia back in 1990. It was so bad that it became rare for me to eat a meal without my esophagus fully seizing and my having to vomit the food back up until the spasms subsided. Eventually, the docs gave in to my "whining" and agreed to perform a Nisson Fundoplasty (sp?).

They opened me up, attached a plastic ring to the bottom of my esophagus and stitched the upper part of my stomach around the ring - thus creating a new valve. They also put a few sutures in my diaphragm to tighten up the hole the esophagus passes thru (the diaphragm is actually the "sphincter" you refered to earlier).

And... the procedure worked. Well, to date about 95% of the time. I still get flare ups occasionally and they suck when they happen. It literally feels like you are having a heart attack.

Yet, I agree with you about the pharm companies pitching their wares to *everybody* that gets a little heartburn occassionally is insane. [/b][/quote]

yep, 100% correct.. what you had is a bad condition to have a serious problem that requires a serious drug treatment for symptoms, or an invasive procedure to correct, sounds like it sucked, i am glad the surgury was a success!

hiatual hernia is true acid reflux.. the rest is just heartburn... food allergies, or eating so much that the stomach pocket is full and peptic acid can overpower the esophogeal valve. "turning off" the peptic acid "pumps" is not only not a cure, but impairs proper digestion. The medicine is way overprescribed, and the OTC version is way overused... and can mask a REAL problem like you have. i agree 100%. its the damn companies that parade their ads thousands of times a month.

If you suggest enough damn symptoms, your going to get a yes eventually:)

"you know, i was a little sleepy the other night, maybe i should see my doctor about new prescription such and such, after all, it was on during the super bowl"

what kills me most is viagra....it is very trendy in the younger overusers of certain stimulants to ensure "performance" after a night of partying. i cant imagine what the % revenue Pfizer gets off of the club crowd. now thats nuts.

Anthony

02-11-2005, 09:09 PM

Originally posted by SykkBoy+Feb 11 2005, 04:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SykkBoy @ Feb 11 2005, 04:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Anthony@Feb 11 2005, 05:28 PM
Little bastard has a mean right hook though!

Try sports with him Lance. His face just lit up when I told him to kick and punch at my hands.

Him actually hitting and kicking surprised even me. :)
hahah, yeah he does

we've had problems getting him signed up for sports because of his lack of communication, but I've tried music and that's helped a lot

he wouldn't play for you, but he played at a recent school pageant....he played "Iron Man" and got me in trouble (I'm the VP of the PTO board and ok'd the song for the pageant ;-)) but the music has definitely helped during his higher stress times...

I'm also thinking of taking him down to the local karate school and enrolling with him and do it as a father-son thing and see if that helps as well [/b][/quote]
yeah man, that would rock. :)

grimm

02-11-2005, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by Peaches+Feb 11 2005, 04:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Feb 11 2005, 04:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-MissEve@Feb 11 2005, 08:54 PM
Damn, I thought if the pill could stop the Eskimo breeding hormones it could stop anything ;) I've been skipping my periods and its so great I can't believe I havent always done it. The doctors Ive asked all say its fine although I do wonder if it might be bad for me. All I know is that Im not "sick" for a couple days a month anymore! :)
Esa, what kind are you taking? I can't remember what I was on (I'm sure I have a pack somewhere because I get them free from my Mom) but I always thought it was too weak a pill. [/b][/quote]
Must be something good, to stop KC's supa dupa killer swimma's

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

HOOOORNK OOOOOOOOOOOOOGA

Lisa

02-11-2005, 09:18 PM

Peaches, before you try the Depo injections, ask your doc to put you on the pill version for a few months. If you have a bad reaction to the injection there is nothing you can do but wait the 3 months or it to wear off...at least with the pills if you have a bad reaction you just stop taking them. If after a couple of months you find they're doing the trick, then go for the injection.

And yes I've had depression in the past, post-natal twice, and once or twice with no apparent 'physical' cause...tho at the time my life was well and truly going to hell in a handbasket. I had medication each time...and came thru the other side.

For me depression is like being in a whirlpool...I seem to be going round and round and down and down and if it gets too far, I don't have the psychological strength to pull myself to the side where it's safe. Medication gives me that leg-up.

MissEve

02-11-2005, 09:37 PM

Peaches, Im on Apri but there are other brands with the same formula. http://my.webmd.com/hw/drug_data/d03782a1?...g_data/d03782a1 (http://my.webmd.com/hw/drug_data/d03782a1?orgpath=/hw/drug_data/d03782a1)

Grimm.... KC keeps saying that his swimmas are so strong that bukkake is the only way to prevent them from getting into trouble :D

gigi

02-11-2005, 11:10 PM

wow, busy thread.....I've read almost every post....

I have suffered from post-natal depression with 3 of 4 of my children....the first time, not even knowing it for 2 years...it was hell. For my next child they preemptively put me on zoloft at 7 months pregnant. For my last child I refused preemptive medication and started on effexor as soon as she was born.

I do know that post-natal depression is VERY real....at least it is for me. My hormones have wreaked havok on me since puberty and damned if they won't let up now....I just can't wait for menopause....that's all I've got to say.
:rolleyes:

grimm

02-11-2005, 11:25 PM

Originally posted by MissEve@Feb 11 2005, 06:38 PM
Peaches, Im on Apri but there are other brands with the same formula. http://my.webmd.com/hw/drug_data/d03782a1?...g_data/d03782a1 (http://my.webmd.com/hw/drug_data/d03782a1?orgpath=/hw/drug_data/d03782a1)

Grimm.... KC keeps saying that his swimmas are so strong that bukkake is the only way to prevent them from getting into trouble :D
KC got mad bukakke swimmas :)

RyanLanane

02-11-2005, 11:25 PM

First of all on the Depo, I have heard ALOT of bad things about that like consistent bleeding for literally 3 months before things stabilize. My ex went on it after we broke up (as naturally she became a TOTAL slut, anyways... lol) she had a 6 month period I was told by a neutral friend.. That would suck. I have heard the same from other woman about not only that but other side effects.

I Like the fact that nowadays people discuss this type of thing more openly and it is considered mroe 'socially acceptable'. 10 years ago I NEVER Would of admitted I suffered from agoraphobia at all at ANY point of my life, not even depression, or social anxiety. I do however think that doctors jump on the "you have depression, take this pill" bandwagon due to drug companies paying them off in ceertain ways to do so. My girlfriend went in about cold sores, and was sent home with anti-depressants being told her depression was causing stress which causes the cold sores? WTF ??? Needless to say she never took them. LOL

I agree with your post Grimm, I never knew you had a background in this type of material and the discussion is interesting. The barrier was in fact the front door and the sense of relief I had when I got through that was OVERWHELMING. I had a TRUE BIPOLAR HIGH and add in a MASSIVE NATURAL HIGH lol. That is when I started appreciating life for what it was.

As far as your statement about true agoraphobia, maybe I don't have True Agoraphobia but just had a short term version of it which was actually social anxiety made more serious by the fact I never left the house. The house was my comfort zone socially speaking.

"Agoraphobia has genetic links, can be tied to drug use, especially stimulants, or other drugs which consistantly cause a severe paranoid reaction. "

My dad had serious problems and was a heavy drug abuser. Let's just say I had a 5 gram a day coke habit for over a year in a row, I nearly lost my life, LITERALLY to that drug. So again, you are right. Glad I have been clean for over a year now.. Even though stimulants aggraviated me so much and made me feel anxiety every time I did them I was drawn to them, was very weird.

As far as going off the Paxil, I went off it because it made me feel so lousy while I was on it. Metallica taste in mouth, increases anxiety, you name it. I honestly think my social phobia is quite simply due to me not having a social life any more except for a few friends and my small comfort zone. I think the Bi-Polar is about as real as it gets and I should be on a mood-stabilizer but they have more negative effects than positive on my life, and as all BI-Polars I enjoy the highs and since I can handle them without them having an adverse effect on my life I choose to take just an anti-depresant to avoid the lows which I have more of a tendancy to hit.

grimm

02-11-2005, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by gigi@Feb 11 2005, 08:11 PM
wow, busy thread.....I've read almost every post....

I have suffered from post-natal depression with 3 of 4 of my children....the first time, not even knowing it for 2 years...it was hell. For my next child they preemptively put me on zoloft at 7 months pregnant. For my last child I refused preemptive medication and started on effexor as soon as she was born.

I do know that post-natal depression is VERY real....at least it is for me. My hormones have wreaked havok on me since puberty and damned if they won't let up now....I just can't wait for menopause....that's all I've got to say.
:rolleyes:
Was the Effexor effective at all? It is fairly mild SNRI (Selective noropenephrine reuptake inhibitor) at lower doses, but at high doses, it is about as effective as a protein inhibitor as anything.

ex girlfriend was on a relatively low dose and felt little or no effect.

Post Natal depression is some serious stuff:( Not very much is known about it, there are a lot of theories.

Nickatilynx

02-11-2005, 11:40 PM

Let's just say I had a 5 gram a day coke habit for over a year in a row,

lightweight ;-))))

Seriously though this is a fascinating thread.

RyanLanane

02-11-2005, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Feb 11 2005, 08:41 PM
Let's just say I had a 5 gram a day coke habit for over a year in a row,

lightweight ;-))))

Seriously though this is a fascinating thread.

LOL, I was working my way up to what's his names character in "BLOW" where the doc tells him he basically has 5 grams of blow in his blood at all times, but I realized I may have tolerance, but that is SUICIDE !!!!

I can honestly say "Those were the best of times, and the worst of times". I would NEVER do it over again though.

And I agree about this thread being very interesting, in fact Grimm I shot you a PM please reply at your leisure :)

Nickatilynx

02-11-2005, 11:59 PM

One time we seriously considered buying a key , for our own consumption , in order to save money.......

Crazy fucked up times....

but we survived it.

Problem is...I really don't know what would happen if someone had some and passed the plate.

I like to think I'd say no.

Hell I've been teetotal too since Sept 8th.

SykkBoy

02-12-2005, 12:08 AM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Feb 12 2005, 12:00 AM
One time we seriously considered buying a key , for our own consumption , in order to save money.......

Crazy fucked up times....

but we survived it.

Problem is...I really don't know what would happen if someone had some and passed the plate.

I like to think I'd say no.

Hell I've been teetotal too since Sept 8th.
I managed to fight the temptation....
but couldn't resist my stripper addiction....
I think yayo would have been cheaper...

PornoDoggy

02-12-2005, 12:16 AM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Feb 11 2005, 07:22 PM
Why be insane when you can be eccentric ?:)

Insane is so...I don't know..... lower class ;-))))
I resemble that remark ...

grimm

02-12-2005, 12:19 AM

Originally posted by RyanLanane@Feb 11 2005, 08:26 PM
First of all on the Depo, I have heard ALOT of bad things about that like consistent bleeding for literally 3 months before things stabilize. My ex went on it after we broke up (as naturally she became a TOTAL slut, anyways... lol) she had a 6 month period I was told by a neutral friend.. That would suck. I have heard the same from other woman about not only that but other side effects.

I Like the fact that nowadays people discuss this type of thing more openly and it is considered mroe 'socially acceptable'. 10 years ago I NEVER Would of admitted I suffered from agoraphobia at all at ANY point of my life, not even depression, or social anxiety. I do however think that doctors jump on the "you have depression, take this pill" bandwagon due to drug companies paying them off in ceertain ways to do so. My girlfriend went in about cold sores, and was sent home with anti-depressants being told her depression was causing stress which causes the cold sores? WTF ??? Needless to say she never took them. LOL

I agree with your post Grimm, I never knew you had a background in this type of material and the discussion is interesting. The barrier was in fact the front door and the sense of relief I had when I got through that was OVERWHELMING. I had a TRUE BIPOLAR HIGH and add in a MASSIVE NATURAL HIGH lol. That is when I started appreciating life for what it was.

As far as your statement about true agoraphobia, maybe I don't have True Agoraphobia but just had a short term version of it which was actually social anxiety made more serious by the fact I never left the house. The house was my comfort zone socially speaking.

"Agoraphobia has genetic links, can be tied to drug use, especially stimulants, or other drugs which consistantly cause a severe paranoid reaction. "

My dad had serious problems and was a heavy drug abuser. Let's just say I had a 5 gram a day coke habit for over a year in a row, I nearly lost my life, LITERALLY to that drug. So again, you are right. Glad I have been clean for over a year now.. Even though stimulants aggraviated me so much and made me feel anxiety every time I did them I was drawn to them, was very weird.

As far as going off the Paxil, I went off it because it made me feel so lousy while I was on it. Metallica taste in mouth, increases anxiety, you name it. I honestly think my social phobia is quite simply due to me not having a social life any more except for a few friends and my small comfort zone. I think the Bi-Polar is about as real as it gets and I should be on a mood-stabilizer but they have more negative effects than positive on my life, and as all BI-Polars I enjoy the highs and since I can handle them without them having an adverse effect on my life I choose to take just an anti-depresant to avoid the lows which I have more of a tendancy to hit.
well as far as the cold sore goes.. stress, drinking, and other factors weaken the immune system allowing the herpes symplex virus to present... but its a bit of a stretch to prescribe for it, when there are plenty of OTC symptom treatments, unless there was a severe stress or depression problem.

as for the drug habit, my aunt was the same way. did not leave her apartment for over a year..... acute onset of agoraphobia caused by consistant cocaine use over a long period of time. Glad you ended up better than she did:)

Severe bypolar disorder is generally treated with lithium. but an SSRI mood elevator topped with a mild anti convulsant to control the mania is common for slow cycle bipolar patients. prozac and depakote, basically.

a cocaine habit and the anxiety from being near it is just addiction man. It is not a pleasant thing.. you can never catch the first high. Eventually you realize it is making your life hell, but its a chemical addiction. Cold turkey is the only way to beat the physical.. change of lifestyle and understanding of the nature of addiction helps with the psychological end.

grimm

02-12-2005, 12:24 AM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Feb 11 2005, 08:41 PM
Let's just say I had a 5 gram a day coke habit for over a year in a row,

lightweight ;-))))

Seriously though this is a fascinating thread.
ive had heavier days than that;).. fortunately all long behind me.

this is a unique group of people with a common background, so the problems and issues, good and bad, will also share a commonality.

Vick

02-12-2005, 12:51 AM

Effexor bad, very bad. Get up to 350 mg per day and then come off because it was turning you into a nice vegtable

and that's all I got to say about that

Peaches - I believe you said somethign about sex and food
I take that to imply there was a lot of eating going on

gigi

02-12-2005, 01:53 AM

Originally posted by grimm+Feb 11 2005, 08:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (grimm @ Feb 11 2005, 08:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-gigi@Feb 11 2005, 08:11 PM
wow, busy thread.....I've read almost every post....

I have suffered from post-natal depression with 3 of 4 of my children....the first time, not even knowing it for 2 years...it was hell. For my next child they preemptively put me on zoloft at 7 months pregnant. For my last child I refused preemptive medication and started on effexor as soon as she was born.

I do know that post-natal depression is VERY real....at least it is for me. My hormones have wreaked havok on me since puberty and damned if they won't let up now....I just can't wait for menopause....that's all I've got to say.
:rolleyes:
Was the Effexor effective at all? It is fairly mild SNRI (Selective noropenephrine reuptake inhibitor) at lower doses, but at high doses, it is about as effective as a protein inhibitor as anything.

ex girlfriend was on a relatively low dose and felt little or no effect.

Post Natal depression is some serious stuff:( Not very much is known about it, there are a lot of theories. [/b][/quote]
When I first started effexor I LOVED it...simply because I didn't get that 'stoned' feeling I got with so many other anti-depressants. I've been on Prozac (lasted a week), paxil (which worked for me, but still made me feel stoned), Zoloft (which was okay, but I ended up getting off it because of digestive side-effects) and now Effexor.

By FAR, I liked Effexor the best. I feel 'normal'. The others made me feel high and 'zoned out'.

As far as treating the depression, they all worked....and so does Effexor for me. Takes about 2 weeks to get into the swing of things, but I KNOW that I have that drug to thank for my sanity after my last pregnancy.

I was on 225's a day right after my pregnancy. Then, we had a family death and I (myself, without my doc's consent) put myself up to 300. I found in higher doses my brain was spinning and I found it hard to juggle my thoughts. After 1 month on 300, I went back down to 225 for another 6 months, and then weaned off. (a definite MUST for anyone taking ANY type of anti-depressant...been there done that.....NOT fun)

I did fabulous for the first 6 weeks, and then began to noticed a decline in my well being...from there it went completely down hill again, and FAST....2 weeks tops, I went from feeling great to feeling probably the worst I've ever felt. :( (this was also during the holidays, so that may have been a contributing factor)

I knew I had to go back on. That was 2 months ago. I opted for a lower dose this time and have been steady at 75 a day. It's just that little edge I need to keep me on the level....at least for now.

I would give ANYTHING to be free of the pills....however, my body disagrees...lol.

I completely feel Peaches' pain and frustration with her hormones and how they wreak havok on your body. It's so unfair!

I am EXTREMELY fertile....and I often wonder if the optimum (or, rather, BEYOND optimum) level of hormones for fertility play a role in post-partum depression.....

As for post partum in and of itself....with confidence, I can say it is VERY real.....

02-12-2005, 04:33 AM

Grimm ... excellent posts & I agreed with so many points you made - few of us give our bodies the right tools to function right (the right diet, exercise and some time in the outdoors) so we're all going to get fucked up in some way at some time.

webmasters are a very unhealthy bunch - how many of us make toasted cheese foccacia's with avocado and ham at 4am? LOL or packets of cookies or savory snacks?! i know its not just me ;-))) I did that for a few years, eating just stupidly, and as a result I can't eat hardly any of those foods now!

I've never had a health problem in my life up until a few years ago, have always been athletic and eaten well - albeit with a wierd schedule thanks to the restaurant.

I made a huge change 1 day after visiting a naturopath, and was getting better within a month, after a year of doctors making up bullshit conditions that were nothing to do with what was causing them. Now I do a combination of yoga, eating lots of green vege's and beans, no bread, pasta or dairy, vegetable juice in the morning and as much sleep as my body needs.

every condition is the cause of some kind of chemical occurence in the body - too much yeast or too much acid are the cause of many forms of cancer. i'm a firm believer of food as medicine, and think it can cure almost anything. ;-)

Hell Puppy

02-12-2005, 06:33 AM

Originally posted by cj@Feb 12 2005, 04:34 AM

webmasters are a very unhealthy bunch - how many of us make toasted cheese foccacia's with avocado and ham at 4am? LOL or packets of cookies or savory snacks?! i know its not just me ;-))) I did that for a few years, eating just stupidly, and as a result I can't eat hardly any of those foods now!

Thanks for helping me hijack this thread and divert the subject to food....

Food is my vice, obviously.

My favorite late night snack is grilled ham and cheese. I love that period right after the holidays where there's honey baked ham left over in the fridge. Slap some of that on a piece of bread along with a couple of slices of cheese (or better yet Velveeta slices!), cover it with another piece of bread to make a samitch and shove it in a George Foreman Grill.

The Foreman Grill is the ultimate grilled cheese machine!

gonzo

02-12-2005, 07:00 AM

Originally posted by Hell Puppy+Feb 12 2005, 06:34 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Hell Puppy @ Feb 12 2005, 06:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-cj@Feb 12 2005, 04:34 AM

webmasters are a very unhealthy bunch - how many of us make toasted cheese foccacia's with avocado and ham at 4am? LOL or packets of cookies or savory snacks?! i know its not just me ;-))) I did that for a few years, eating just stupidly, and as a result I can't eat hardly any of those foods now!

Thanks for helping me hijack this thread and divert the subject to food....

Food is my vice, obviously.

My favorite late night snack is grilled ham and cheese. I love that period right after the holidays where there's honey baked ham left over in the fridge. Slap some of that on a piece of bread along with a couple of slices of cheese (or better yet Velveeta slices!), cover it with another piece of bread to make a samitch and shove it in a George Foreman Grill.

The Foreman Grill is the ultimate grilled cheese machine! [/b][/quote]
You know the best is when we go for the big after midnight run....

Buffalo Chicken Tenders and one of those huge ass farmers omlettes with all that good stuff in there! I usually have a stack of pancakes for desert.

Last time we went I was still hungry so I go the turtle cheesecake!
Now thats good eatin!

Of course we've found this place that serves up 35 shrimp buffalo style. If you get an order of loaded fries to come along with that....you dont need dessert there. Makes a hungry man into a shrimp hunter!

Peaches

02-12-2005, 09:29 AM

Originally posted by gonzo@Feb 12 2005, 08:01 AM
Of course we've found this place that serves up 35 shrimp buffalo style. If you get an order of loaded fries to come along with that....you dont need dessert there. Makes a hungry man into a shrimp hunter!
And for those of us watching our girlish figures, we can take some shrimp home and have it for breakfast in the AM :)

I have to admit food is something I savor. I've never had a drug or alcohol addiction, but food is about as close to something I could OD on as it comes. And if you've seen me lately, I've been ODing a lot! :o

Anthony

02-12-2005, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Feb 11 2005, 09:00 PM
One time we seriously considered buying a key , for our own consumption , in order to save money.......

Crazy fucked up times....

but we survived it.

Problem is...I really don't know what would happen if someone had some and passed the plate.

I like to think I'd say no.

Hell I've been teetotal too since Sept 8th.
I think deep down inside, we knew bying a key would have been just absolute madness. Though, we coulda got it cheap! hahahaha

A bout 3 weeks at the new Hardrock Cafe Casino down here in Sfla, I was hanging with some music industry guys, and they had an ounce on their bedroom table.

Even with their joking around, cause they saw that 1000 mile stare I had with it, I said no, can you believe it? I can't myself.

Cocaine is one Hellf of a drug.

Anthony

02-12-2005, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by cj@Feb 12 2005, 01:34 AM
Grimm ... excellent posts & I agreed with so many points you made - few of us give our bodies the right tools to function right (the right diet, exercise and some time in the outdoors) so we're all going to get fucked up in some way at some time.

webmasters are a very unhealthy bunch - how many of us make toasted cheese foccacia's with avocado and ham at 4am? LOL or packets of cookies or savory snacks?! i know its not just me ;-))) I did that for a few years, eating just stupidly, and as a result I can't eat hardly any of those foods now!

I've never had a health problem in my life up until a few years ago, have always been athletic and eaten well - albeit with a wierd schedule thanks to the restaurant.

I made a huge change 1 day after visiting a naturopath, and was getting better within a month, after a year of doctors making up bullshit conditions that were nothing to do with what was causing them. Now I do a combination of yoga, eating lots of green vege's and beans, no bread, pasta or dairy, vegetable juice in the morning and as much sleep as my body needs.

every condition is the cause of some kind of chemical occurence in the body - too much yeast or too much acid are the cause of many forms of cancer. i'm a firm believer of food as medicine, and think it can cure almost anything. ;-)
I'm seeing a nutrionist, and trainer. End of this year, I'm gonna look like the guy in your avatar. :)

You are so right, food is everything, or rather, lack of certain ones.

grimm

02-12-2005, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by gigi+Feb 11 2005, 10:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gigi @ Feb 11 2005, 10:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by grimm@Feb 11 2005, 08:37 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-gigi@Feb 11 2005, 08:11 PM
wow, busy thread.....I've read almost every post....

I have suffered from post-natal depression with 3 of 4 of my children....the first time, not even knowing it for 2 years...it was hell. For my next child they preemptively put me on zoloft at 7 months pregnant. For my last child I refused preemptive medication and started on effexor as soon as she was born.

I do know that post-natal depression is VERY real....at least it is for me. My hormones have wreaked havok on me since puberty and damned if they won't let up now....I just can't wait for menopause....that's all I've got to say.
:rolleyes:
Was the Effexor effective at all? It is fairly mild SNRI (Selective noropenephrine reuptake inhibitor) at lower doses, but at high doses, it is about as effective as a protein inhibitor as anything.

ex girlfriend was on a relatively low dose and felt little or no effect.

Post Natal depression is some serious stuff:( Not very much is known about it, there are a lot of theories.
When I first started effexor I LOVED it...simply because I didn't get that 'stoned' feeling I got with so many other anti-depressants. I've been on Prozac (lasted a week), paxil (which worked for me, but still made me feel stoned), Zoloft (which was okay, but I ended up getting off it because of digestive side-effects) and now Effexor.

By FAR, I liked Effexor the best. I feel 'normal'. The others made me feel high and 'zoned out'.

As far as treating the depression, they all worked....and so does Effexor for me. Takes about 2 weeks to get into the swing of things, but I KNOW that I have that drug to thank for my sanity after my last pregnancy.

I was on 225's a day right after my pregnancy. Then, we had a family death and I (myself, without my doc's consent) put myself up to 300. I found in higher doses my brain was spinning and I found it hard to juggle my thoughts. After 1 month on 300, I went back down to 225 for another 6 months, and then weaned off. (a definite MUST for anyone taking ANY type of anti-depressant...been there done that.....NOT fun)

I did fabulous for the first 6 weeks, and then began to noticed a decline in my well being...from there it went completely down hill again, and FAST....2 weeks tops, I went from feeling great to feeling probably the worst I've ever felt. :( (this was also during the holidays, so that may have been a contributing factor)

I knew I had to go back on. That was 2 months ago. I opted for a lower dose this time and have been steady at 75 a day. It's just that little edge I need to keep me on the level....at least for now.

I would give ANYTHING to be free of the pills....however, my body disagrees...lol.

I completely feel Peaches' pain and frustration with her hormones and how they wreak havok on your body. It's so unfair!

I am EXTREMELY fertile....and I often wonder if the optimum (or, rather, BEYOND optimum) level of hormones for fertility play a role in post-partum depression.....

As for post partum in and of itself....with confidence, I can say it is VERY real..... [/b][/quote]
Gigi.. Post partum depression is very real. We just dont know what causes it.. there are a couple schools of thought, a hormonal reaction (even an ellergy). High levels of certain hormones exascerbate feelings of unsurity, or inadequacy, or fear for the child. psychological realizations of the finality of the birth of a child, or feelings regarding the changes, both mentally and physically,that come with it.. there are a bunch of theories. Nobody knows for sure, but Doctor's all take it very seriously.. it is a very severe condition.. only compounded by the guilt women have felt for a long time for feeling like that after experiencing a wonderful event (in the eyes of society). wrong stigmas put on the disease, for sure.

Anthony.... a key wasn't that much of a stretch. lol. thing is, that kind of weight can get you a lot of time in a 5 X 6;) paranoia can save your ass lol

grimm

02-12-2005, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by Anthony@Feb 12 2005, 07:30 AM

I'm seeing a nutrionist, and trainer. End of this year, I'm gonna look like the guy in your avatar. :)

You are so right, food is everything, or rather, lack of certain ones.
no offense anthony... but you could never look that..... gay?;)

gigi

02-12-2005, 02:34 PM

Originally posted by grimm@Feb 12 2005, 08:26 AM
Gigi.. Post partum depression is very real. We just dont know what causes it.. there are a couple schools of thought, a hormonal reaction (even an ellergy). High levels of certain hormones exascerbate feelings of unsurity, or inadequacy, or fear for the child. psychological realizations of the finality of the birth of a child, or feelings regarding the changes, both mentally and physically,that come with it.. there are a bunch of theories. Nobody knows for sure, but Doctor's all take it very seriously.. it is a very severe condition.. only compounded by the guilt women have felt for a long time for feeling like that after experiencing a wonderful event (in the eyes of society). wrong stigmas put on the disease, for sure.
Absolutely....societal pressures certainly have their place in making the depression worse due to guilt....

Are there adequate studies being done on post-natal depression? I get the idea that doctors are aware of it, but there are not enough studies out there trying to figure out why it happens. I feel like doctors just throw medication at it and hope for the best. I mean, ultimately, medications are just a bandaid, and if we can discover the root of the problem, we may be able to stop it before it starts.

I won't go into the theory that, in today's society, in general, men's dis-'ease's are tended to much quicker and more thoroughly than women's dis-'ease's....but, in this specific case, I am somewhat jaded and lean towards this idea. Especially because it is linked to mental illness. If a woman is feeling 'blue' the doc throws her some pills...if a man is 'blue', they do a bunch of tests first and try to discover the root of the problem before medicating.....

grimm

02-12-2005, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by gigi+Feb 12 2005, 11:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gigi @ Feb 12 2005, 11:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-grimm@Feb 12 2005, 08:26 AM
Gigi.. Post partum depression is very real. We just dont know what causes it.. there are a couple schools of thought, a hormonal reaction (even an ellergy). High levels of certain hormones exascerbate feelings of unsurity, or inadequacy, or fear for the child. psychological realizations of the finality of the birth of a child, or feelings regarding the changes, both mentally and physically,that come with it.. there are a bunch of theories. Nobody knows for sure, but Doctor's all take it very seriously.. it is a very severe condition.. only compounded by the guilt women have felt for a long time for feeling like that after experiencing a wonderful event (in the eyes of society). wrong stigmas put on the disease, for sure.
Absolutely....societal pressures certainly have their place in making the depression worse due to guilt....

Are there adequate studies being done on post-natal depression? I get the idea that doctors are aware of it, but there are not enough studies out there trying to figure out why it happens. I feel like doctors just throw medication at it and hope for the best. I mean, ultimately, medications are just a bandaid, and if we can discover the root of the problem, we may be able to stop it before it starts.

I won't go into the theory that, in today's society, in general, men's dis-'ease's are tended to much quicker and more thoroughly than women's dis-'ease's....but, in this specific case, I am somewhat jaded and lean towards this idea. Especially because it is linked to mental illness. If a woman is feeling 'blue' the doc throws her some pills...if a man is 'blue', they do a bunch of tests first and try to discover the root of the problem before medicating..... [/b][/quote]
Personally, i think the bias is the age old "women are more emotional" crap. If a woman is feeling depressed, they are "moody", while men often don't discuss such things until it becomes such a weight that they are dangerous ton themselves or each other, or lose their job, wife, family, etc... so the bias might exist because physicians tend to only see the very worse of the illness in men.

Also, the whole "hormone" thing, which is frightening when you consider these people went to medical school, and should be well aware that every chemical that exists in women, exists in one form or another in men. the Y chromosome doesnt negate the effect of such things;)

grimm

02-12-2005, 02:47 PM

It is much easier for any medical professional to quick diagnose and treat, or be quick on the referral to someone else. The health care system is a cattle call.. and is getting worse.. this is HUGE as the largest generation retires and gets old, and the bigger ones are coming down the pipe..Health insurance premiums are going through the roof. Medical malpractice insurance is ridiculous. Doctor's feel comfortable just going about the same old patterns, as there is relatively low risk to them or the patient, and if they pass the buck, the problem is no longer theirs.

As far as studies for post natal or post partem depression. sure, there are lots going on. But those things take time, and willing participants.

Peaches

02-12-2005, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by grimm@Feb 12 2005, 03:48 PM
It is much easier for any medical professional to quick diagnose and treat, or be quick on the referral to someone else. The health care system is a cattle call.. and is getting worse.. this is HUGE as the largest generation retires and gets old, and the bigger ones are coming down the pipe..Health insurance premiums are going through the roof. Medical malpractice insurance is ridiculous. Doctor's feel comfortable just going about the same old patterns, as there is relatively low risk to them or the patient, and if they pass the buck, the problem is no longer theirs.

As far as studies for post natal or post partem depression. sure, there are lots going on. But those things take time, and willing participants.
Yes, it always amazes me when people complain about the high cost of prescriptions, but many of the top used/most expensive prescriptions could be cut down substantially with taking care of yourself both physically and with mental therapy.

gigi

02-12-2005, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by grimm@Feb 12 2005, 11:41 AM
Personally, i think the bias is the age old "women are more emotional" crap. If a woman is feeling depressed, they are "moody", while men often don't discuss such things until it becomes such a weight that they are dangerous ton themselves or each other, or lose their job, wife, family, etc... so the bias might exist because physicians tend to only see the very worse of the illness in men.

Also, the whole "hormone" thing, which is frightening when you consider these people went to medical school, and should be well aware that every chemical that exists in women, exists in one form or another in men. the Y chromosome doesnt negate the effect of such things;)
Agreed on all fronts......

gigi

02-12-2005, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by Peaches+Feb 12 2005, 11:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Feb 12 2005, 11:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-grimm@Feb 12 2005, 03:48 PM
It is much easier for any medical professional to quick diagnose and treat, or be quick on the referral to someone else. The health care system is a cattle call.. and is getting worse.. this is HUGE as the largest generation retires and gets old, and the bigger ones are coming down the pipe..Health insurance premiums are going through the roof. Medical malpractice insurance is ridiculous. Doctor's feel comfortable just going about the same old patterns, as there is relatively low risk to them or the patient, and if they pass the buck, the problem is no longer theirs.

As far as studies for post natal or post partem depression. sure, there are lots going on. But those things take time, and willing participants.
Yes, it always amazes me when people complain about the high cost of prescriptions, but many of the top used/most expensive prescriptions could be cut down substantially with taking care of yourself both physically and with mental therapy. [/b][/quote]
Very, very true. I KNOW that there are lifestyle changes I could make that would alleviate at least SOME of my issues.....exercise is a HUGE one for me....exercise elevates seratonin levels which would certainly help in my case. :ph34r:

02-12-2005, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by gonzo+Feb 12 2005, 07:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gonzo @ Feb 12 2005, 07:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Feb 12 2005, 06:34 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-cj@Feb 12 2005, 04:34 AM

webmasters are a very unhealthy bunch - how many of us make toasted cheese foccacia's with avocado and ham at 4am? LOL or packets of cookies or savory snacks?! i know its not just me ;-))) I did that for a few years, eating just stupidly, and as a result I can't eat hardly any of those foods now!

Thanks for helping me hijack this thread and divert the subject to food....

Food is my vice, obviously.

My favorite late night snack is grilled ham and cheese. I love that period right after the holidays where there's honey baked ham left over in the fridge. Slap some of that on a piece of bread along with a couple of slices of cheese (or better yet Velveeta slices!), cover it with another piece of bread to make a samitch and shove it in a George Foreman Grill.

The Foreman Grill is the ultimate grilled cheese machine!
You know the best is when we go for the big after midnight run....

Buffalo Chicken Tenders and one of those huge ass farmers omlettes with all that good stuff in there! I usually have a stack of pancakes for desert.

Last time we went I was still hungry so I go the turtle cheesecake!
Now thats good eatin!

Of course we've found this place that serves up 35 shrimp buffalo style. If you get an order of loaded fries to come along with that....you dont need dessert there. Makes a hungry man into a shrimp hunter! [/b][/quote]
*shaking head*

those 2 posts were like standing in front of a paraplegic and bouncing about on both legs saying 'man i love walking and hopping and skipping'.

all I got to say is .....

fermenting food. its gonna really hurt one day.

02-12-2005, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by gigi@Feb 12 2005, 03:24 PM
Very, very true. I KNOW that there are lifestyle changes I could make that would alleviate at least SOME of my issues.....exercise is a HUGE one for me....exercise elevates seratonin levels which would certainly help in my case. :ph34r:
So you know you could take steps to reduce the problem yourself, but choose not to and remain unwell instead? That *knowing* is your instinct ... and its never wrong.

gigi

02-12-2005, 08:05 PM

Originally posted by cj+Feb 12 2005, 04:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (cj @ Feb 12 2005, 04:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-gigi@Feb 12 2005, 03:24 PM
Very, very true. I KNOW that there are lifestyle changes I could make that would alleviate at least SOME of my issues.....exercise is a HUGE one for me....exercise elevates seratonin levels which would certainly help in my case. :ph34r:
So you know you could take steps to reduce the problem yourself, but choose not to and remain unwell instead? That *knowing* is your instinct ... and its never wrong. [/b][/quote]
You're very right, cj....I could sit here and make excuses like running a household of 6 blah blah...but the truth to the matter is, if I took out ONE hour of my online time 3x per week, I'd be making things easier for myself.

I do alot of other things, like eating healthy (although quantity issues can rear their ugly heads at times :ph34r: )....I drink at least 3 cups of green tea a day, eat my salads and make sure I get at least one good dose of protein first thing in the morning (doctor told me that will help, too)

Not exercising is a vice I am still battling......it's not over yet, though. ;)

grimm

02-12-2005, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by cj+Feb 12 2005, 04:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (cj @ Feb 12 2005, 04:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-gigi@Feb 12 2005, 03:24 PM
Very, very true. I KNOW that there are lifestyle changes I could make that would alleviate at least SOME of my issues.....exercise is a HUGE one for me....exercise elevates seratonin levels which would certainly help in my case. :ph34r:
So you know you could take steps to reduce the problem yourself, but choose not to and remain unwell instead? That *knowing* is your instinct ... and its never wrong. [/b][/quote]
self preservation is instinct.. the "knowing" people feel is just guilt about feeling helpless against the anxiety... when it comes down to it, your physiology will step in to preserve the self. if axiety is creating an exorbitant amount of stress in a given situation, the body will go into fight or flight instinct.. or even worse, shut down certain functions completely. The link between phsychology and physiology works both ways.

grimm

02-12-2005, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by cj+Feb 12 2005, 04:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (cj @ Feb 12 2005, 04:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by gonzo@Feb 12 2005, 07:01 AM
Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Feb 12 2005, 06:34 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-cj@Feb 12 2005, 04:34 AM

webmasters are a very unhealthy bunch - how many of us make toasted cheese foccacia's with avocado and ham at 4am? LOL or packets of cookies or savory snacks?! i know its not just me ;-))) I did that for a few years, eating just stupidly, and as a result I can't eat hardly any of those foods now!

Thanks for helping me hijack this thread and divert the subject to food....

Food is my vice, obviously.

My favorite late night snack is grilled ham and cheese. I love that period right after the holidays where there's honey baked ham left over in the fridge. Slap some of that on a piece of bread along with a couple of slices of cheese (or better yet Velveeta slices!), cover it with another piece of bread to make a samitch and shove it in a George Foreman Grill.

The Foreman Grill is the ultimate grilled cheese machine!
You know the best is when we go for the big after midnight run....

Buffalo Chicken Tenders and one of those huge ass farmers omlettes with all that good stuff in there! I usually have a stack of pancakes for desert.

Last time we went I was still hungry so I go the turtle cheesecake!
Now thats good eatin!

Of course we've found this place that serves up 35 shrimp buffalo style. If you get an order of loaded fries to come along with that....you dont need dessert there. Makes a hungry man into a shrimp hunter!
*shaking head*

those 2 posts were like standing in front of a paraplegic and bouncing about on both legs saying 'man i love walking and hopping and skipping'.

all I got to say is .....

fermenting food. its gonna really hurt one day. [/b][/quote]
that shit is fucking good:)

but after eating healthy for a while, its almost like poison. I love the taste of that stuff, but my body rejects it, almost like a really bad hangover. saps the life right out of me anymore, so i 86 it.

Drinking beer was even harder. still is:)

grimm

02-12-2005, 08:26 PM

lol

*giving up* drinking beer.

drinking beer was never hard at all, it was really easy:)

Anthony

02-12-2005, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by grimm+Feb 12 2005, 08:37 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (grimm @ Feb 12 2005, 08:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Anthony@Feb 12 2005, 07:30 AM

I'm seeing a nutrionist, and trainer. End of this year, I'm gonna look like the guy in your avatar. :)

You are so right, food is everything, or rather, lack of certain ones.
no offense anthony... but you could never look that..... gay?;) [/b][/quote]
Grimm,

Oh yes I can! Just you wait and watch. :)

grimm

02-12-2005, 09:13 PM

We'll see, well i wont see, but whomever sees you in your tighty whities will LOL

Anthony

02-12-2005, 09:21 PM

Originally posted by grimm@Feb 12 2005, 06:14 PM
We'll see, well i wont see, but whomever sees you in your tighty whities will LOL
Don't worry Bro, I'll send you pics. :)

grimm

02-12-2005, 09:59 PM

Originally posted by Anthony+Feb 12 2005, 06:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Anthony @ Feb 12 2005, 06:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-grimm@Feb 12 2005, 06:14 PM
We'll see, well i wont see, but whomever sees you in your tighty whities will LOL
Don't worry Bro, I'll send you pics. :) [/b][/quote]
thanks man, ill put them up on the fridge with the others:)

Anthony

02-12-2005, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by grimm+Feb 12 2005, 07:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (grimm @ Feb 12 2005, 07:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Anthony@Feb 12 2005, 06:22 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-grimm@Feb 12 2005, 06:14 PM
We'll see, well i wont see, but whomever sees you in your tighty whities will LOL
Don't worry Bro, I'll send you pics. :)
thanks man, ill put them up on the fridge with the others:) [/b][/quote]
Scchhwweeeett!

Nickatilynx

02-12-2005, 10:38 PM

Ok...whats bizarre is...

I actually do have a picture of Anthony on my fridge..

Anthony

02-12-2005, 10:45 PM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Feb 12 2005, 07:39 PM
Ok...whats bizarre is...

I actually do have a picture of Anthony on my fridge..
I'll send some new ones when my twins are down. :)

02-12-2005, 11:20 PM

Originally posted by Anthony+Feb 12 2005, 09:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Anthony @ Feb 12 2005, 09:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-grimm@Feb 12 2005, 06:14 PM
We'll see, well i wont see, but whomever sees you in your tighty whities will LOL
Don't worry Bro, I'll send you pics. :) [/b][/quote]
make sure you send me pics too :groucho:

I won't waste them by just putting them on my fridge ;-)))))

GiGi, I hear ya about the exercise being difficult to get started, especially if you try to do exercise that others say you should be doing. find something you enjoy enough that you can do it 3 times a week without it feeling like a chore ... for me its yoga for relaxation, strength building and flexibility and rollerblading/skating to get the blood moving. I started by going walking with my camera and now I find if i go a few days without exercise I feel awful.

Nike said it best ...... everytime you feel yourself making an excuse or coming up with a reason to sit on the couch over a walk around the block, say to yourself JUST DO IT.

02-12-2005, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by grimm@Feb 12 2005, 08:27 PM
lol

*giving up* drinking beer.

drinking beer was never hard at all, it was really easy:)
LMAO

alcohol was an easy one for me - never liked it much anyway. i think, even more beneficial than giving up the alcohol was giving up the shit that gets mixed with it.

soda is EVIL. i find if i drink any soda at all, i get addicted to it and find myself craving it for days after. 80% of ADD, hyperactivity etc in kids could be prevented if soda didn't exist.

but sometimes it just tastes so damn good :rolleyes:

Hell Puppy

02-13-2005, 01:34 AM

Originally posted by Anthony+Feb 12 2005, 10:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Anthony @ Feb 12 2005, 10:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Feb 11 2005, 09:00 PM
One time we seriously considered buying a key , for our own consumption , in order to save money.......

Crazy fucked up times....

but we survived it.

Problem is...I really don't know what would happen if someone had some and passed the plate.

I like to think I'd say no.

Hell I've been teetotal too since Sept 8th.
I think deep down inside, we knew bying a key would have been just absolute madness. Though, we coulda got it cheap! hahahaha

A bout 3 weeks at the new Hardrock Cafe Casino down here in Sfla, I was hanging with some music industry guys, and they had an ounce on their bedroom table.

Even with their joking around, cause they saw that 1000 mile stare I had with it, I said no, can you believe it? I can't myself.

Cocaine is one Hellf of a drug. [/b][/quote]
To quote the late great Sam Kinison....

"Cocaine never has a happy ending... You either die, go to jail, or run out."

gonzo

02-13-2005, 01:52 AM

Originally posted by cj+Feb 12 2005, 07:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (cj @ Feb 12 2005, 07:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by gonzo@Feb 12 2005, 07:01 AM
Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Feb 12 2005, 06:34 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-cj@Feb 12 2005, 04:34 AM

webmasters are a very unhealthy bunch - how many of us make toasted cheese foccacia's with avocado and ham at 4am? LOL or packets of cookies or savory snacks?! i know its not just me ;-))) I did that for a few years, eating just stupidly, and as a result I can't eat hardly any of those foods now!

Thanks for helping me hijack this thread and divert the subject to food....

Food is my vice, obviously.

My favorite late night snack is grilled ham and cheese. I love that period right after the holidays where there's honey baked ham left over in the fridge. Slap some of that on a piece of bread along with a couple of slices of cheese (or better yet Velveeta slices!), cover it with another piece of bread to make a samitch and shove it in a George Foreman Grill.

The Foreman Grill is the ultimate grilled cheese machine!
You know the best is when we go for the big after midnight run....

Buffalo Chicken Tenders and one of those huge ass farmers omlettes with all that good stuff in there! I usually have a stack of pancakes for desert.

Last time we went I was still hungry so I go the turtle cheesecake!
Now thats good eatin!

Of course we've found this place that serves up 35 shrimp buffalo style. If you get an order of loaded fries to come along with that....you dont need dessert there. Makes a hungry man into a shrimp hunter!
*shaking head*

those 2 posts were like standing in front of a paraplegic and bouncing about on both legs saying 'man i love walking and hopping and skipping'.

all I got to say is .....

fermenting food. its gonna really hurt one day. [/b][/quote]
It hurts a little when the chili dogs start barking.

One of us is gonna end up paying a vet bill from the dogs howling and keeling over after the gas has been passed.