Playstation 3

[Nickatilynx]

PlayStation 3 processor unveiled

The chip has been many years in development
The Cell processor, which will drive Sony's PlayStation 3, will run 10-times faster than current PC chips, its designers have said.
Sony, IBM and Toshiba, who have been working on the Cell processor for three years, unveiled the chip on Monday.

It is being designed for use in graphics workstations, the new PlayStation console, and has been described as a supercomputer on a chip.

The chip will run at speeds of greater than 4 GHz, the firms said.

By comparison, rival chip maker Intel's fastest processor runs at 3.8 GHz.

Details of the chip were released at the International Solid State Circuits Conference in San Francisco.

The new processor is set to ignite a fresh battle between Intel and the Cell consortium over which processor sits at the centre of digital products.

The PlayStation 3 is expected in 2006, while Toshiba plans to incorporate it into high-end televisions next year.

IBM has said it will sell a workstation with the chip starting later this year.

'Multicore' chips

Cell is comprised of several computing engines, or cores.

A core based on IBM's Power architecture controls eight "synergistic" processing centres.

In all, they can simultaneously carry out 10 instruction sequences, compared with two for current Intel chips.

CELL SPECS

Faster than 4 GHz
256 billion calculations per second
2.5MB of on-chip memory
Able to shuttle data to and from off-chip memory at speeds up to 100 gigabytes per second,
234 million transistors


Why the Cell will get the hard sell
Later this year, Intel and Advanced Micro Devices plan to release their own "multicore" chips, which also increase the number of instructions that can be executed at once.

The Cell's specifications suggest the PlayStation 3 will offer a significant boost in graphics capabilities but analysts cautioned that not all the features in a product announcement will find their way into systems.

"Any new technology like this has two components," said Steve Kleynhans, an analyst with Meta Group.

He said: "It has the vision of what it could be because you need the big vision to sell it.

"Then there's the reality of how it's really going to be used, which generally is several levels down the chain from there."

Mass market

While the PlayStation 3 is likely to be the first mass-market product to use Cell, the chip's designers have said the flexible architecture means that it would be useful for a wide range of applications, from servers to mobile phones.

Initial devices are unlikely to be any smaller than a games console, however, because the first version of the Cell will run hot enough to need a cooling fan.

And while marketing speak describes the chip as a "supercomputer" - it remains significantly slower than the slowest computer on the list of the world's top 500 supercomputers.

IBM said Cell was "OS neutral" and would support multiple operating systems simultaneously but designers would not confirm if Microsoft's Windows was among those tested with the chip.

If Cell is to challenge Intel's range of chips in the marketplace, it will need to find itself inside PCs, which predominantly run using Windows.

[kath]

2006? OK - so now I know what will be on the kids' holiday lists... that should give us just enough time for the "new" PS2s we bought them to break down. lol

But even better than PS2 is what IBM is working on.... can't wait to see this chip in action in my desktop - thanks for posting Nick, interesting news!

:rokk:

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by kath@Feb 8 2005, 09:22 AM
2006? OK - so now I know what will be on the kids' holiday lists... that should give us just enough time for the "new" PS2s we bought them to break down. lol

But even better than PS2 is what IBM is working on.... can't wait to see this chip in action in my desktop - thanks for posting Nick, interesting news!

:rokk:
Wonder what you'll be paying on ebay to makie sure you have one for Xmass 2006?

Cause you know they will keep supply tight.

I think I paid $600 to get a PS2 in time for Xmass one yr.

[DrGuile]

from what I can gather, it uses current transistor technology (90nm Silicon-On-Insulator). And it will be almost twice as big a chip than current P4, and run at higher speed.

Translation? A ton of heat... and I mean loads and loads... Unless they found a magical way to make it run on a lower voltage (which seems unlikely since they use the same transistors as intel and amd).

Also, the size and speed (which should cause some pretty low yield), and the fact that its based on a RAMBUS memory architecture should make it pretty expensive....


All of this kinda conflicts with the idea of using it in the PS3... unless the ps3 winds up costing 600$+


What I do like about it is, in theory, its a new way to process thing, which is the only way to get more than incremental increase in performance over the previous chip. It also can mean falling flat on your face... but Id be surprised if it does with the backing it has...

But dont forget, nothing is as good as the press release is trying to make it sound... (i.e. I could easily see the PS3 cell chip running at 2ghz instead of 4 to improve yields and reduce cost and heat.)

[TheEnforcer]

I played my Playstation a whole hell of a lot but haven't played my PS2 nearly as much so i don't think I'll be in a rush for PS3..... <_<

[Evil Chris]

Originally posted by TheEnforcer@Feb 8 2005, 02:01 PM
I played my Playstation a whole hell of a lot but haven't played my PS2 nearly as much so i don't think I'll be in a rush for PS3..... <_<
me either, but snap that's powerful!

Funny thing is, over the years the guts of Playstation have been fast and powerful, but the same guts in a PC was costing like 10 times the price if you follow what I mean.

[darksoft]

There has been talk of using a 65nm process which would cut the size and heat quite a bit.

[punkerbarbie]

holy crapola a playstation 3? thats fucking awesome! i cant wait till it comes out. i bet the graghics are going to be wicked! :yowsa:

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by punkerbarbie@Feb 8 2005, 02:41 PM
holy crapola a playstation 3? thats fucking awesome! i cant wait till it comes out. i bet the graghics are going to be wicked! :yowsa:
Yeah, I'm sure it will be sweet. I've kinda transformed from a Playstation gamer to a more computer orientated gamer though. <_<

[DrGuile]

Originally posted by darksoft@Feb 8 2005, 02:04 PM
There has been talk of using a 65nm process which would cut the size and heat quite a bit.
Right, in a couple years (lets say early 2007), that will not be exceptional then either...

[grimm]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Feb 8 2005, 09:15 AM
PlayStation 3 processor unveiled

The chip has been many years in development
The Cell processor, which will drive Sony's PlayStation 3, will run 10-times faster than current PC chips, its designers have said.
Sony, IBM and Toshiba, who have been working on the Cell processor for three years, unveiled the chip on Monday.

It is being designed for use in graphics workstations, the new PlayStation console, and has been described as a supercomputer on a chip.

The chip will run at speeds of greater than 4 GHz, the firms said.

By comparison, rival chip maker Intel's fastest processor runs at 3.8 GHz.

Details of the chip were released at the International Solid State Circuits Conference in San Francisco.

The new processor is set to ignite a fresh battle between Intel and the Cell consortium over which processor sits at the centre of digital products.

The PlayStation 3 is expected in 2006, while Toshiba plans to incorporate it into high-end televisions next year.

IBM has said it will sell a workstation with the chip starting later this year.

'Multicore' chips

Cell is comprised of several computing engines, or cores.

A core based on IBM's Power architecture controls eight "synergistic" processing centres.

In all, they can simultaneously carry out 10 instruction sequences, compared with two for current Intel chips.

CELL SPECS

Faster than 4 GHz
256 billion calculations per second
2.5MB of on-chip memory
Able to shuttle data to and from off-chip memory at speeds up to 100 gigabytes per second,
234 million transistors


Why the Cell will get the hard sell
Later this year, Intel and Advanced Micro Devices plan to release their own "multicore" chips, which also increase the number of instructions that can be executed at once.

The Cell's specifications suggest the PlayStation 3 will offer a significant boost in graphics capabilities but analysts cautioned that not all the features in a product announcement will find their way into systems.

"Any new technology like this has two components," said Steve Kleynhans, an analyst with Meta Group.

He said: "It has the vision of what it could be because you need the big vision to sell it.

"Then there's the reality of how it's really going to be used, which generally is several levels down the chain from there."

Mass market

While the PlayStation 3 is likely to be the first mass-market product to use Cell, the chip's designers have said the flexible architecture means that it would be useful for a wide range of applications, from servers to mobile phones.

Initial devices are unlikely to be any smaller than a games console, however, because the first version of the Cell will run hot enough to need a cooling fan.

And while marketing speak describes the chip as a "supercomputer" - it remains significantly slower than the slowest computer on the list of the world's top 500 supercomputers.

IBM said Cell was "OS neutral" and would support multiple operating systems simultaneously but designers would not confirm if Microsoft's Windows was among those tested with the chip.

If Cell is to challenge Intel's range of chips in the marketplace, it will need to find itself inside PCs, which predominantly run using Windows.
That sort of chip would make sense for high end gaming... but just like the PS2, you are going to have some lag... new games that take advantage of the faster rendering will be a 6 mos to a year off the release of the console.. most of the people that went out and bought a ps2 right away, ended up playing ps1 games on it until the media caught up.. remember, sony doesnt make the games, EA, Sega, etc make the games.. and no software side is going to jump into the market until they see if the demand was there. Remember, the dreamcast was the end of Sega Consoles for that reason.

The portable, PSP will be the hot sell this next christmas. ive seen demos, and it looks just like the ps2. im not much of a handheld video game player, hell i barely play my xbox or ps2 at home, but something that small with that good of graphics would be cool. wonder how hot or how long it will run.


this is a different subject entirely, but why the fuck dont ALL airlines have at LEAST a power supply in each seat? that is one thing that has always pissed me off. Wireless internet and Satellite TV are around the corner, but a cigarette lighter plug is WAAAY too hard;)

[darksoft]

Originally posted by DrGuile+Feb 8 2005, 02:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (DrGuile @ Feb 8 2005, 02:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-darksoft@Feb 8 2005, 02:04 PM
There has been talk of using a 65nm process which would cut the size and heat quite a bit.
Right, in a couple years (lets say early 2007), that will not be exceptional then either... [/b][/quote]
True, but for now it's quite the big deal.

[Yug]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Feb 8 2005, 09:15 AM
The chip will run at speeds of greater than 4 GHz, the firms said.
Although it should be noted that thats how fast they MANAGED to get it running. Realistically the PS3 wouldn't actually go up that high because of power/heat issues.

Apparently, all 3 of the next generation consoles (Nintendo Revolution, Xbox 2, PS3) will be revealed at the E3 expo coming up soon, although Sony have said they will showcase the PS3 a bit before that, probably to get a jump on the competators.

Also of note, Microsoft will probably be first out the gate with a new console, unless the other companies change their release date forcast.

I wonder if we are ready for new consoles. Realistically, TV's can still only display at a resolution of 640x480 (or something like that isnt it?). HDTV of course changes this, but if u force people to have a HDTV in order to play a game, u cut out alot of the market. I think the biggest thing we have seen is the eager acceptance of online console gaming, especially with the Xbox. Things can only get better.

[grimm]

Originally posted by Yug+Feb 8 2005, 07:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Yug @ Feb 8 2005, 07:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Feb 8 2005, 09:15 AM
The chip will run at speeds of greater than 4 GHz, the firms said.
Although it should be noted that thats how fast they MANAGED to get it running. Realistically the PS3 wouldn't actually go up that high because of power/heat issues.

Apparently, all 3 of the next generation consoles (Nintendo Revolution, Xbox 2, PS3) will be revealed at the E3 expo coming up soon, although Sony have said they will showcase the PS3 a bit before that, probably to get a jump on the competators.

Also of note, Microsoft will probably be first out the gate with a new console, unless the other companies change their release date forcast.

I wonder if we are ready for new consoles. Realistically, TV's can still only display at a resolution of 640x480 (or something like that isnt it?). HDTV of course changes this, but if u force people to have a HDTV in order to play a game, u cut out alot of the market. I think the biggest thing we have seen is the eager acceptance of online console gaming, especially with the Xbox. Things can only get better. [/b][/quote]
awesome so thats what, 6 consoles i have to buy why i still try to figure out how to save my Halo game on Xbox? sweet.

Im going to hire a neighbor kid to play the game for me. and im just going to watch and try not to break anything.

[grimm]

will the nintendo revolution have tecmo bowl. I was really good at tecmo bowl. Evidently with age i have the hand eye coordination of a polish sausage.

[darksoft]

Originally posted by grimm@Feb 8 2005, 10:45 PM
will the nintendo revolution have tecmo bowl. I was really good at tecmo bowl. Evidently with age i have the hand eye coordination of a polish sausage.
Damn I forgot about that. That was a cool game. :)

[Yug]

Originally posted by grimm@Feb 8 2005, 09:44 PM
awesome so thats what, 6 consoles i have to buy why i still try to figure out how to save my Halo game on Xbox? sweet.

Im going to hire a neighbor kid to play the game for me. and im just going to watch and try not to break anything.
What annoys me the most is plugging them all into the TV ... I have a ps2, xbox, gamecube, dvd player and foxtel cable ... i actually have a seperate remote JUST to switch between systems ... just great, another god damn remote to loose ... god help me when the next 3 systems come out

[RyanLanane]

Originally posted by DrGuile@Feb 8 2005, 09:57 AM
from what I can gather, it uses current transistor technology (90nm Silicon-On-Insulator). And it will be almost twice as big a chip than current P4, and run at higher speed.

Translation? A ton of heat... and I mean loads and loads... Unless they found a magical way to make it run on a lower voltage (which seems unlikely since they use the same transistors as intel and amd).

Also, the size and speed (which should cause some pretty low yield), and the fact that its based on a RAMBUS memory architecture should make it pretty expensive....


All of this kinda conflicts with the idea of using it in the PS3... unless the ps3 winds up costing 600$+


What I do like about it is, in theory, its a new way to process thing, which is the only way to get more than incremental increase in performance over the previous chip. It also can mean falling flat on your face... but Id be surprised if it does with the backing it has...

But dont forget, nothing is as good as the press release is trying to make it sound... (i.e. I could easily see the PS3 cell chip running at 2ghz instead of 4 to improve yields and reduce cost and heat.)

From what I have read, the Playstation 3 is going to be MUCH MORE than a video gaming console. I heard they were going to make it an ALL-IN-ONE "Set Top Box"

Wiping out the need for,

TIVO
DVD Player
CD Player
Cable/Satellite Box
Etc

I also hear there will be different versions combining the different components so you can go with just the console or you can get allof the above wrapped in one magical box to get rid of all that shit on top of your T.V. (eventually something like this will be needed if you think where we are headed, PLASMA)

I agree with the problem with heat dissipation though, Microsoft will probably mine some new type of super absorbant heat soaking metal knowing them :D

[Yug]

Originally posted by RyanLanane+Feb 9 2005, 06:33 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RyanLanane @ Feb 9 2005, 06:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-DrGuile@Feb 8 2005, 09:57 AM
from what I can gather, it uses current transistor technology (90nm Silicon-On-Insulator). And it will be almost twice as big a chip than current P4, and run at higher speed.

Translation? A ton of heat... and I mean loads and loads... Unless they found a magical way to make it run on a lower voltage (which seems unlikely since they use the same transistors as intel and amd).

Also, the size and speed (which should cause some pretty low yield), and the fact that its based on a RAMBUS memory architecture should make it pretty expensive....


All of this kinda conflicts with the idea of using it in the PS3... unless the ps3 winds up costing 600$+


What I do like about it is, in theory, its a new way to process thing, which is the only way to get more than incremental increase in performance over the previous chip. It also can mean falling flat on your face... but Id be surprised if it does with the backing it has...

But dont forget, nothing is as good as the press release is trying to make it sound... (i.e. I could easily see the PS3 cell chip running at 2ghz instead of 4 to improve yields and reduce cost and heat.)

From what I have read, the Playstation 3 is going to be MUCH MORE than a video gaming console. I heard they were going to make it an ALL-IN-ONE "Set Top Box"

Wiping out the need for,

TIVO
DVD Player
CD Player
Cable/Satellite Box
Etc

I also hear there will be different versions combining the different components so you can go with just the console or you can get allof the above wrapped in one magical box to get rid of all that shit on top of your T.V. (eventually something like this will be needed if you think where we are headed, PLASMA)

I agree with the problem with heat dissipation though, Microsoft will probably mine some new type of super absorbant heat soaking metal knowing them :D [/b][/quote]
I think you might be talking about the PS-X which was released over in japan, which intergrated the features of a Sony Playstation 2, along with a dvd player, surround sound system, tivo features, etc etc ... I'll try to dig up some more info on it.

Currently, we aren't even sure if the PS3 will even have a harddrive, thats always been a great 'secret' revenue builder for sony ... the fact that even though they advertise the console for say '$250', you still have to shell out another $60 or so for a memory card, otherwise you cant save your games! (Dont panic, thats aussie dollars there :P )

[RyanLanane]

Nope Yug, that was actually on videogames.com about 6 months ago. I would dig through the archives but I have a busy night ahead of me.. See ya all tomorrow off to the mines for the night.

Ryan