The Fourth Reich?

[grimm]

;)


Partial history of the Nazi party's rise to power


Pre-War Politics 1933-1939

On January 30, 1933, Hitler was appointed chancellor by President Paul von Hindenburg after attempts by General Kurt von Schleicher to form a viable government failed and under heavy pressure from former Chancellor Franz von Papen. Even though the Nazi Party had gained the largest share of the popular vote in the two Reichstag general elections of 1932, they had no majority in parliament.


Consolidation of power

The new government installed dictatorship in a series of measures in quick succession (Gleichschaltung for details). On February 27, 1933 Hermann Göring orchestrated the Reichstag building fire, which was followed immediately with the Reichstag Fire Decree, which rescinded Habeas corpus,

(The Reichstag Fire Decree is the commonly used abbreviation for the law that was passed by the Nazi government in direct response to the Reichstag fire of February 27, 1933. It took the government only one day to pass it on February 28.

The actual name of the decree is Verordnung des Reichspräsidenten zum Schutz von Volk und Staat (Decree of the Reich President for the protection of people and state). At the behest of Chancellor Adolf Hitler, the law was issued by the aging (and lapsing in and out of senility) Paul von Hindenburg using the authority of Art. 48 subsection 2 of the Weimar Constitution which allowed the Reichspräsident to take any appropriate measure to remedy dangers to public safety. It represents one of the key steps which the Nazi government took to formally establish its rule, commonly referred to as Gleichschaltung.

It suspended most of the human rights set forth in the constitution of the 1919 Weimar Republic. Since the decree is exemplary of how the Nazis quite legally abolished all remainders of what makes a modern democracy)

and other protective laws. The next Reichstag elections on March 5, 1933, yielded 43.9 % of the vote for the NSDAP giving them a slight plurality. The Reichstag drove the final nails in Weimar's coffin by passing the Enabling Act (Ermächtigungsgesetz) on March 23, 1933, which formally gave Hitler the power to govern by decree and in effect disbanded the remainders of the Weimar constitution altogether.

Further consolidation of power was achieved on January 30, 1934 with the Gesetz über den Neuaufbau des Reichs (act to rebuild the Reich). The act changed the highly decentralized federal Germany of the Weimar era into a centralized state. It disbanded state parliaments, transferred sovereign rights of the states to the Reich central government and put the state administrations under the control of the Reich administration. At the death of president Hindenburg on August 2, 1934, the Nazi controlled Reichstag merged the offices of Reichspräsident and Reichskanzler and reinstalled Hitler with the new title Führer und Reichskanzler.

The institution of the Gestapo, police to act outside of any civil authority, highlighted the Nazi's intention to hold powerful means of directly controlling German society. Soon, mirroring Stalin's terror in the Soviet Union, an estimated army of about 100,000 spies and infiltrants operated throughout Germany, reporting to Nazi officials the activities of any critics or dissenters. Most ordinary Germans, happy with the improving economy and better standard of living remained obedient and quiet, but many political opponents, especially communists and socialists, were reported by omnipresent eavesdropping spies, and put in prison camps where they were severely mistreated, and many tortured and killed. Estimates of political victims range in dozens of thousands dead and disappeared in the first few years of Nazi rule.


Social policy
The Nazi regime was characterized by political control of every aspect of society in a quest for racial (Aryan, Nordic), social and cultural purity. Modern abstract art and avant garde art was thrown out of museums, and put on special displays of "Degenerate art" where it was ridiculed. However, the crowds attending these displays of "decadent art" frequently eclipsed those attending officially sanctioned displays. In one notable example on March 31, 1937, huge crowds stood in line to view a special display of degenerate art in Munich while a concurrently running exhibiton of 900 works personally approved by Adolf Hitler attracted a tiny, unenthusiastic gathering.

The Nazi Party pursued its aims through persecution of those considered impure, especially against targeted minority groups such as Jews, Gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses, and homosexuals.

By the Nuremberg Laws passed in 1935, Jews were renounced from the German citizenship and denied government employment. Most Jews employed by Germans lost their jobs at this time, their jobs being taken by unemployed Germans. On November 9, 1938, the Nazi party incited a pogrom against Jewish businesses called the Kristallnacht ("Night of Broken Glass"); the euphemism was used because the numerous broken windows made the streets look as if covered with crystal. By September 1939, more than 200,000 Jews had left Germany, with the Nazi government seizing any property they left behind.

The Nazis also undertook programs targeting "weak" or "unfit" members of their own population as well, such as the T-4 Euthanasia Program which killed off dozens of thousands of disabled and sickly Germans in an effort to "maintain the purity of the German Master race" (German: Herrenvolk) as described by Nazi propagandists. The techniques of mass-killing developed in these efforts would later be used in the Holocaust. Under a law passed in 1933, the Nazi regime carried out the compulsory sterilization of over 400,000 individuals labeled as having hereditary defects, ranging from mental illness to alcoholism.


Economic Policy

The Reichsmark gained significant value under the Third ReichThe economic management of the state was given to respected banker Hjalmar Schacht. Under his guidance, a new economic policy to elevate the nation was drafted, limiting imports of consumer goods and focusing on producing exports. Massive loans and credits were issued by the Reichsbank to industries and the individuals. Under the leadership of Fritz Todt a massive public works project was started, rivaling the New Deal in both size and scope; its most notable achievement was the Autobahn. Once the war started, the massive organization that Todt founded was used in building bunkers, underground facilities and entrenchments all over Europe. Another part of the new German economy was massive rearmament with the goal being to expand the 100,000-strong German Army into a force of millions.

[PornoDoggy]

I'm not worrying about anything like that ...


















although I'd be very suspicious if A-rab terrorists who hate freedom happened to burn down Capital Hill in the next few months...

[grimm]

they hate our freedom. uhhhmurican freedum. they want to release their nukular bombs on our freedum.





:yowsa:

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jan 24 2005, 02:03 AM
although I'd be very suspicious if A-rab terrorists who hate freedom happened to burn down Capital Hill in the next few months...
Or Canadians!

[Almighty Colin]

Grimm,

I can't tell when you are joking this week or not. A bizarre week of posting :-P

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by Almighty Colin+Jan 24 2005, 05:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Almighty Colin @ Jan 24 2005, 05:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-PornoDoggy@Jan 24 2005, 02:03 AM
although I'd be very suspicious if A-rab terrorists who hate freedom happened to burn down Capital Hill in the next few months...
Or Canadians! [/b][/quote]
They've been there, done that ... don't think they'll try it again.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy+Jan 24 2005, 06:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PornoDoggy @ Jan 24 2005, 06:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Almighty Colin@Jan 24 2005, 05:59 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-PornoDoggy@Jan 24 2005, 02:03 AM
although I'd be very suspicious if A-rab terrorists who hate freedom happened to burn down Capital Hill in the next few months...
Or Canadians!
They've been there, done that ... don't think they'll try it again. [/b][/quote]
Canadian mythology. See The British Burn Washington, DC, 1814 (http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/washingtonsack.htm)

[Rolo]

Originally posted by grimm@Jan 23 2005, 10:11 PM
Under a law passed in 1933, the Nazi regime carried out the compulsory sterilization of over 400,000 individuals labeled as having hereditary defects, ranging from mental illness to alcoholism.
Sadly this was done in many western countries at the time - not just in Germany :(

[Rolo]

I think Nazi have played a big role in the roots of modern radical islam...

Haj Amin al-Husseini - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haj_Amin_al-Husseini - was one angry muslim... not only did he fight in WWI for the Ottoman empire, but he also did terror attacks against jews after WWI, made revolts in Iraq against the british, and had close ties with the Nazi before and during WWII. After WWII he went to Egypt where he continued his radical islam..


In 1933, within weeks of Hitler's rise to power in Germany, al-Husayni sent a telegram to Berlin addressed to the German counsul-general in the British Mandate of Palestine saying he looked forward to spreading their ideology in the Middle East, especially in Palestine and offered his services. Al-Husayni's offer was rejected at first out of concern for disrupting Anglo-German relations by allying with an anti-British leader. But one month later, Al-Husayni secretly met Wolff, the German Consul-General, near the Dead Sea and expressed his approval of the anti-Jewish boycott in Germany and asked him not to send any Jews to Palestine. Later that year, the Mufti's assistants approached Wolff, seeking his help in establishing a National Socialist Arab party in Palestine. Wolff and his superiors disapproved because they didn't want to become involved in a British sphere of influence, the Nazi's desired further Jewish immigration to Palestine, and because the Nazi party, was restricted to German speaking "Aryans" only.

On 21 July 1937, Al-Husayni paid a visit to the new German Consul-General, Döhle, in Palestine. He repeated his former support for Germany and "wanted to know to what extent the Third Reich was prepared to support the Arab movement against the Jews"

In September 1937 two SS officers, named Karl Adolf Eichmann and Herbert Hagen, came to Palestine with the objective of getting "acquainted with the country and the life and to establish contact with people" among them Al-Husayni.

In 1938, though Anglo-German relations were no longer a concern and Al-Husayni's offer was accepted. Al-Husayni's links to the Nazi regime grew very close. From Berlin, al-Husayni played a significant role in inter-Arab politics.

In 1939, al-Husayni fled from Lebanon to Iraq.

In May 1940, the British Foreign Office declined a proposal from the chairman of the Vaad Leumi (Jewish national council in Palestine) that they assassinate al-Husayni, but in November of that year Winston Churchill approved such a plan. In May 1941, several members of the Irgun including its leader David Raziel were released from prison and flown to Iraq for this purpose. The mission was abandoned when Raziel was killed by a German plane (Mattar, 1984).

in 1941 the Mufti and the "Golden Square" pro-German army officers, led by General Rashid Ali, forced the Iraqi Prime Minister, the pro-British Nuri Said Pasha, to resign. In May he declared jihad against Britain. In a few months British troops crushed the rebellion and the Mufti went to Germany, via Iran, Turkey and Mussolini's office in Rome.

Amin-Husseini

Haj Amin el Husseini fled to Europe dressed as a woman, in violation of Islamic law. On 20 November 1941 the German Foreign Minister, Joachim von Ribbentrop and was officially received by Adolf Hitler on November 28, 1941 in Berlin. Nazi Germany established for der Grossmufti von Jerusalem a Bureau from which he organized the following: 1) radio propaganda on behalf of Nazi Germany; 2) espionage and fifth column activities in Muslim regions of Europe and the Middle East; 3) the formation of Muslim Waffen SS and Wehrmacht units in Bosnia, the Balkans, North Africa, and Nazi-occupied areas of the Soviet Union; and, 4) the formation of schools and training centers for Muslim imams and mullahs who would accompany the Muslim SS and Wehrmacht units. As soon as he arrived in Europe,the Mufti established close contacts with Bosnian Muslim and Albanian Muslim leaders. He would spend the remainder of the war organizing and rallying Muslims in support of Nazi Germany. Two months after The Mufti's arival the Nazi system of working Jews to death changed to a systematic attempt to exterminate them.

"Germany and Italy recognize the illegality of the Jewish National Home in Palestine. They recognize the right of Palestine and other Arab countries to solve the question of the Jewish elements in Palestine and in other Arab countries as required by national interests, and in the same way as the Jewish question in the Axis lands is being solved."

The Mufti

The Mufti approached representatives of the Nazi regime and sought cooperation on July 21, 1937, when he visited the German Consul in Jerusalem. He later sent an agent and personal representative to Berlin for discussions with Nazi leaders. SS Obergruppenfuehrer Reinhard Heydrich was second in command to Heinrich Himmler in the SS hierarchy and was the chief of the Reich Security Head Office (Reichssicherheitshauptamt, RSHA) and was the head of the Sicherheitsdienst (SD), the SS Security Service. In Septemper, 1937, Heydrich sent two SS officers, SS Hauptscharfuehrer Adolf Eichmann and SS Oberscharfuehrer Herbert Hagen on a mission to Palestine, one of the main objectives being to establish contact with the Grand Mufti. During this period Husseini received financial and military assistance and supplies from Nazi Germany and fascist Italy.

After meeting Hitler and Ribbentrop in Berlin in 1941, the Mufti was made an SS Gruppenfuehrer by Reichsfuehrer-SS Heinrich Himmler.

Beginning in 1943, al-Husayni was involved in the organization and formation of Bosnian Muslims into several divisions of the Waffen SS and other units. The largest was the 13th "Handschar" division (21,065 men), which conducted operations against Communist partisans in the Balkans from February 1944. In fact 13th SS "Handschar" was at least made up of 10% catholic Croats, this was done out of compromise since the Croat facists, the Ustashe had objected to the recruitment of the Bosnian Muslims, since they were worried about possible independence and considered the Muslim areas apart of their greater Croatia. The uniform worn by the division was regular SS issue, with a divisional collar patch showing an arm, holding a Scimitar, over a Swastika. On the left arm was a Croatian armshield (red-white chessboard). Headgear was the Fez, in field grey (normal service) or red ("walking out"), with the SS eagle and death's head emblazoned. Non-Muslim members could opt to wear the normal SS mountain cap. The oval mountain troop Edelweiss patch was worn on the right arm. The division also had Muslim imams in the division.

The "Handschar" division was entirely commanded by German officers and was sent to France for training where some members staged a mutiny on sept 17-18 1943, in reality it was only a small number of communist sympathizers who staged the mutiny, a few were killed during the mutiny and later 12 others were executed by the Germans. The division later completed training in Germany.

It was responsible for a number of atrocities against civilians mostly committed during its anti partisan operations, of which it was specifically raised for. Towards the end of the war however, many of its members deserted the division sometimes with their weapons, as many of the Muslims decided to return to Bosnia to protect their homes and families or defected to titos partisans. The division was essentially disbanded by november 1944, although some sources allege a small number continued to fight until being captured or killed by 1945.

The 21st "Kama" division (3,793 men) did not reach divisional operations strength and was disbanded after five months; its personnel being transferred to other units. Additional units included a Muslim SS self-defense regiment in the Rashka (Sandzak) region of Serbia, the Ostmusselmanische SS-Regiment.

In June 1944, Dieter Wisliceny, Eichmann's deputy for Slovakia and Hungary, told Dr. Rudolf Kasztner in Budapest that he was convinced that the Mufti had

played a role in the decision to exterminate the European Jews... The importance of this role must not be disregarded ...The Mufti had repeatedly suggested to the various authorities with whom he was maintaining contact, above all to Hitler, Ribbentrop and Himmler, the extermination of European Jewry. He considered this as a comfortable solution of the Palestinian problem.

In his conversation with Endre Steiner in Bratislava, Wisliceny said:

The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and had been a collaborator and advisor of Eichmann and Himmler in execution of this plan...He was one of Eichmann's best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures. I heard him say, accompanied by Eichmann, he had visited incognito the gas chamber of Auschwitz.

Wisliceny, who himself was a major war criminal and finally executed in 1948, repeated the Mufti's participation in the Holocaust at the Nuremberg trials in July 1946.

He testified that after the Mufti's arrival in Germany he had paid visit to Himmler and shortly afterwards (late in 1941 or early in 1942) had visited Eichmann in his Berlin office at Kürfurstrasse 116. According to Wisliceny, Eichmann told him that he had brought the Mufti to a special room where he showed him maps illustrating the distribution of the Jewish population in various European countries and delivered a detailed report on the solution of the Jewish problem in Europe. The Mufti seemed to have been much impressed.

The Mufti knew exactly what was going on in Poland. In a broadcast from Berlin on 21 September 1944 he said: "Is it not in your power, O Arabs, to repulse the Jews who number not more than eleven million?". It was a common knowledge that before 1939 the world's Jewish population numbered 17 million.

In 1944 al-Husayni launched a chemical warfare assault on the Jewish community in Palestine. Five parachutists were sent with a toxin to dump into the water system of Tel Aviv, a predominantly Jewish city. The police caught the infiltrators in a cave near Jericho, and according to Jericho district police commander Fayiz Bey Idrissi, "The laboratory report stated that each container held enough poison to kill 25,000 people, and there were at least ten containers." (Source: The Quest for the Red Prince by Michael Bar-Zohar and Eitan Haber, 1983)

[grimm]

Originally posted by Almighty Colin@Jan 24 2005, 03:00 AM
Grimm,

I can't tell when you are joking this week or not. A bizarre week of posting :-P
go with your gut


:D

[Mike AI]

The Baathists in Iraq and Syria borrowed heavily from the European fascists....

[grimm]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jan 24 2005, 08:11 AM
The Baathists in Iraq and Syria borrowed heavily from the European fascists....
Yes indeed.

The word REich comes from the German translation of the Holy Roman Empire.

Each Reich is said to last 1000 years. The third only lasted 12 because of allied involvement and WWII.

So it is also deeply entwined in judeo-christian sense of time in a milleniumesque way. The jewish calendar is separated into thousand year increments, with the end of days coming in the 6000th year. The same is said for Christianity, although the calendar is based on the birth of Jesus, the time before and after....but it is roughly the same.

Sort of Ironic when you think of the NAtionalist Nazi Socialist movement and its ultimate goals. To have a national religion ruled under a reich by an emporer for a thousand years...

[grimm]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jan 24 2005, 08:11 AM
The Baathists in Iraq and Syria borrowed heavily from the European fascists....
rereading that, it might have been the other way around.. newer borrowing from older.

[grimm]

nope i am wrong.. the ba'ath political party was formed in 1966

Ba'athists are national socialists, believing in the uniting of Arab powers and only Arab powers.

[Dravyk]

Originally posted by grimm+Jan 24 2005, 11:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (grimm @ Jan 24 2005, 11:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Mike AI@Jan 24 2005, 08:11 AM
The Baathists in Iraq and Syria borrowed heavily from the European fascists....
Yes indeed.

The word REich comes from the German translation of the Holy Roman Empire.

Each Reich is said to last 1000 years. The third only lasted 12 because of allied involvement and WWII.

So it is also deeply entwined in judeo-christian sense of time in a milleniumesque way. The jewish calendar is separated into thousand year increments, with the end of days coming in the 6000th year. The same is said for Christianity, although the calendar is based on the birth of Jesus, the time before and after....but it is roughly the same.

Sort of Ironic when you think of the NAtionalist Nazi Socialist movement and its ultimate goals. To have a national religion ruled under a reich by an emporer for a thousand years...[/b][/quote]
Well it is said the First Reich lasted a thousand years, yes. But it began when there was no Germany nor Franch; though one could say it was the Frankish and Teutonic Kings and involved land that would become other countries later too, such as Belgium, Austria and others. Though it seems only the Germans tend to call it theirs. (Because once it shrank down to its smallest area of influence, it was only Germany that still held on.)

Further no one can accurately define it. It wasn't really a government. It wasn't really ever very large be a real "empire" (when compared to past empires). In fact often the "king" crowned wasn't always a king, but often a baron of a small piece of land. It had it's affiinity with the Pope in Rome, (who would crown the "emperor", but it was neither a very religious empire per se, nor even a good secular one. It didn't even include Italy where Rome was.

The Second Reich was that of the Kaiser (oooh that name!) Wilhelm, and didn't but a few decades at most. Basically the whole Reich thing has always been one of those "invented greatness" things of the past for which to rally around nationalism in Germany. Yeah it existed, but more in a socialogical context than anything viable.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by Almighty Colin+Jan 24 2005, 02:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Almighty Colin @ Jan 24 2005, 02:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-PornoDoggy@Jan 24 2005, 02:03 AM
although I'd be very suspicious if A-rab terrorists who hate freedom happened to burn down Capital Hill in the next few months...
Or Canadians! [/b][/quote]
:ph34r:

I think you know too much.....

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Jan 24 2005, 12:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Jan 24 2005, 12:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Almighty Colin@Jan 24 2005, 02:59 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-PornoDoggy@Jan 24 2005, 02:03 AM
although I'd be very suspicious if A-rab terrorists who hate freedom happened to burn down Capital Hill in the next few months...
Or Canadians!
:ph34r:

I think you know too much..... [/b][/quote]
Well, you go through a lotta matches up there lighting the camp fires outside your igloos. It's a natural evolution. :rokk:

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by Almighty Colin+Jan 24 2005, 09:53 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Almighty Colin @ Jan 24 2005, 09:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jan 24 2005, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by Almighty Colin@Jan 24 2005, 02:59 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-PornoDoggy@Jan 24 2005, 02:03 AM
although I'd be very suspicious if A-rab terrorists who hate freedom happened to burn down Capital Hill in the next few months...
Or Canadians!
:ph34r:

I think you know too much.....
Well, you go through a lotta matches up there lighting the camp fires outside your igloos. It's a natural evolution. :rokk: [/b][/quote]
Both our secret operatives have been despatched ,eh.

You're for it now.

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Jan 24 2005, 12:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Jan 24 2005, 12:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Almighty Colin@Jan 24 2005, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jan 24 2005, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by Almighty Colin@Jan 24 2005, 02:59 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-PornoDoggy@Jan 24 2005, 02:03 AM
although I'd be very suspicious if A-rab terrorists who hate freedom happened to burn down Capital Hill in the next few months...
Or Canadians!
:ph34r:

I think you know too much.....
Well, you go through a lotta matches up there lighting the camp fires outside your igloos. It's a natural evolution. :rokk:
Both our secret operatives have been despatched ,eh.

You're for it now. [/b][/quote]
Too late ... plans for the Canukschloss are unstoppable.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jan 24 2005, 01:48 PM
Canukschloss
:wnw:

[overdose]

Originally posted by Rolo+Jan 24 2005, 04:19 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rolo @ Jan 24 2005, 04:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-grimm@Jan 23 2005, 10:11 PM
Under a law passed in 1933, the Nazi regime carried out the compulsory sterilization of over 400,000 individuals labeled as having hereditary defects, ranging from mental illness to alcoholism.
Sadly this was done in many western countries at the time - not just in Germany :( [/b][/quote]
What about ethnic cleansing during the Nazi rule?