Let's talk DRM... [Archive] - Oprano Adult Industry Forums

Rolo

01-19-2005, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by Lee@Jan 19 2005, 12:33 AM
Here we go...

http://drmnews.com/freeme.htm

Was posted on YNOT a day or two back :)
Isn´t that the same Freeme.exe, which MS have a fix for?

Situation
Microsoft has evaluated the Freeme.exe software posted October 19, 2001 on The Register Web site, and has verified that for users who have purchased or licensed content that is protected by Microsoft Windows Media Digital Rights Management version 7 (including 7.1), the Freeme software can be applied to breach the Digital Rights Management (DRM) protection of the content. It is important to note that this breach does not pose any privacy threat to users personal information on their computers. Also, this breach only affects content protected with Windows Media Rights Manager version 7 Software Development Kit (SDK), not version 1.

Microsoft has also verified that this breach is predicated upon obtaining a valid license, which means you cannot circumvent the security for content that has not been licensed or purchased by a user, because if content is protected with Microsoft Windows Media DRM, the user acquires the license separately from the content.

Microsoft takes any DRM breach very seriously. Ensuring that our products remain secure from hackers remains a top priority, now and in the future. Because any DRM system can potentially be compromised, Microsoft designed the Windows Media DRM system to support dynamic updates, should a security compromise like this occur. This update mechanism, referred to as security renewal, does not require a new release of the Windows Media Player or the Windows Media Format Software Development Kit.

Microsoft has released the fix for the Freeme software and we have included additional security to make it more difficult for future attackers to leverage information already published.
...

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsme...drm/freeme.aspx (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/drm/freeme.aspx)

Dravyk

01-19-2005, 11:06 AM

PlayaDRM looks good http://www.playadrm.com

Rolo

01-19-2005, 11:16 AM

Any service which has software to download, so you can do the packaging on your own system?

VooMan

01-19-2005, 11:49 AM

Rolo, "Beale Screamer" is the guy who originally cracked DRM in 2001. I haven't seen this information on any other drm news sites, so it may be a link to an old article... I'll keep my eyes open...

We offer desktop software for DRM encryption, so you can always maintain control of your content...

DRM Networks

01-19-2005, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Jan 19 2005, 12:25 AM
I know of a couple and have been following DRM for 2-3 years. But I'm sure I've overlooked some newcomers and maybe a few that have been around a while.

Who has good flexible solutions...preferably that include an interface to a iPSP for the backend processing?
DRM Networks is the "in house" solution for CCBill and is fully integrated and ready to go if you have a CCBill account.

Our is a very feaure rich solution and is built for very large scale deployment.

Please feel free to contact me or you CCBill rep for additional information.

-Randall

JoesHO

01-19-2005, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by VooMan@Jan 19 2005, 08:50 AM
Rolo, "Beale Screamer" is the guy who originally cracked DRM in 2001. I haven't seen this information on any other drm news sites, so it may be a link to an old article... I'll keep my eyes open...

We offer desktop software for DRM encryption, so you can always maintain control of your content...
How much is the software vooman, and where would one go to get it ?

JoesHO

01-19-2005, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by DRM Networks+Jan 19 2005, 08:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (DRM Networks @ Jan 19 2005, 08:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Hell Puppy@Jan 19 2005, 12:25 AM
I know of a couple and have been following DRM for 2-3 years. But I'm sure I've overlooked some newcomers and maybe a few that have been around a while.

Who has good flexible solutions...preferably that include an interface to a iPSP for the backend processing?
DRM Networks is the "in house" solution for CCBill and is fully integrated and ready to go if you have a CCBill account.

Our is a very feaure rich solution and is built for very large scale deployment.

Please feel free to contact me or you CCBill rep for additional information.

-Randall [/b][/quote]
will it ever be compatible for sites that do not use CCBill? as a stand alone product?

gonzo

01-19-2005, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by Dravyk@Jan 19 2005, 11:07 AM
PlayaDRM looks good http://www.playadrm.com
Yeah real good. We are still waiting in the conference room downtown for that cocksucker to call us back with all of our clients here for that implementaiton confernce call.

Embarassment, loose of huge monies and then find the bastard hanging out on Max Cash Live instead of on a conference call...calls ignored...voice mail ignored.

You want to get me really started on this Ill go fire up my partners Dirty Doug and Cnote..... I can sum it up with one word

SNORT !!!!

gonzo

01-19-2005, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by DRM Networks+Jan 19 2005, 11:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (DRM Networks @ Jan 19 2005, 11:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Hell Puppy@Jan 19 2005, 12:25 AM
I know of a couple and have been following DRM for 2-3 years. But I'm sure I've overlooked some newcomers and maybe a few that have been around a while.

Who has good flexible solutions...preferably that include an interface to a iPSP for the backend processing?
DRM Networks is the "in house" solution for CCBill and is fully integrated and ready to go if you have a CCBill account.

Our is a very feaure rich solution and is built for very large scale deployment.

Please feel free to contact me or you CCBill rep for additional information.

-Randall [/b][/quote]
Randall

Do I still have to

1. FTP all the movies up to you so that you can wrap them
2. FTP them back down wrapped
3. Still only availible if you are a 3rd party processor [$750 and 17%]

Or have times changed?

Nickatilynx

01-19-2005, 02:11 PM

gonzo

01-19-2005, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Jan 19 2005, 02:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Jan 19 2005, 02:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by gonzo@Jan 19 2005, 11:01 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Dravyk@Jan 19 2005, 11:07 AM
PlayaDRM looks good http://www.playadrm.com
Yeah real good. We are still waiting in the conference room downtown for that cocksucker to call us back with all of our clients here for that implementaiton confernce call.

Embarassment, loose of huge monies and then find the bastard hanging out on Max Cash Live instead of on a conference call...calls ignored...voice mail ignored.

You want to get me really started on this Ill go fire up my partners Dirty Doug and Cnote..... I can sum it up with one word

SNORT !!!!
Huh?

What the fuck?

Wanna run this story ( cause there sure as hell sounds like one here) past us Gonzo?

Warts and all? [/b][/quote]
Maybe Ill dig up Dirty Doug to do it since his recollection is more colorful and then we wont have to worry about one of the fans or consultants coming in to dispute the story as it will be relayed by a 3rd party that was there.

*KK*

01-19-2005, 03:55 PM

Interesting, I've never had anyone complain about working with Tucker when I suggested they do.

Something doesn't sound quite right in this whole story.

And if CNote is Chris Levy that you're referring to, then there's definitely a mix-up, since he's never had anything to do with Tuckers solution as far as I know.

gonzo

01-19-2005, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by *KK*@Jan 19 2005, 03:56 PM
Interesting, I've never had anyone complain about working with Tucker when I suggested they do.

Something doesn't sound quite right in this whole story.

And if CNote is Chris Levy that you're referring to, then there's definitely a mix-up, since he's never had anything to do with Tuckers solution as far as I know.
Cnote is Charles Lynch.

*KK*

01-19-2005, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by gonzo+Jan 19 2005, 12:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gonzo @ Jan 19 2005, 12:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-*KK*@Jan 19 2005, 03:56 PM
Interesting, I've never had anyone complain about working with Tucker when I suggested they do.

Something doesn't sound quite right in this whole story.

And if CNote is Chris Levy that you're referring to, then there's definitely a mix-up, since he's never had anything to do with Tuckers solution as far as I know.
Cnote is Charles Lynch. [/b][/quote]
Interesting, since that was Levy's choice of icq and board handle last year or so. :)

Tucker

01-19-2005, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by gonzo+Jan 19 2005, 11:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gonzo @ Jan 19 2005, 11:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Dravyk@Jan 19 2005, 11:07 AM
PlayaDRM looks good http://www.playadrm.com
Yeah real good. We are still waiting in the conference room downtown for that cocksucker to call us back with all of our clients here for that implementaiton confernce call.

Embarassment, loose of huge monies and then find the bastard hanging out on Max Cash Live instead of on a conference call...calls ignored...voice mail ignored.

You want to get me really started on this Ill go fire up my partners Dirty Doug and Cnote..... I can sum it up with one word

SNORT !!!! [/b][/quote]
Hi Gonzo,

I am a little confused by who you are talking about and what you are talking about? We are available to our clients regularly by icq, email and phone. I am available on ICQ about 20 hours a day and have rarely had issues. You referenced two people I have never heard of. I have never been to Max Cash live and if you are making a reference to drugs with the "Snort", boy do you have the wrong guy.

Las time we spoke, which I think was over a year ago, you told me that you had your own thing going and to essentially buzz off, which I did. It sounds like you are confusing me with another and our company with another company. Maybe this was going on at the same time and you might have become mistaken. I will say that if you were basing a large scale deal on our solution 1) If we were told about it, we would know about it and 2) We ALWAYS keep appointments and if we need to change them, we notify via phone and email prior to the time. We are a business, not a game room.

As I have always said and others can attest to, I am here for you and anyone else that needs something or has questions.

ICQ 2 5-4-334 or email tucker@playasolutions.com is best.

I am sorry if you had an unpleasant experience but I think it fair to say that you should bring this to my attention so that I could attempt to rectify the situation. I am looking through my logs and calendar and I dont see a scheduled conference call with you in the last two years.

Please advise via email as this is the best way to keep a record of discussions to prevent any further misunderstanding.

Thank you.

Jason Tucker
Playa DRM

TO THE REST OF THE THREAD:
As far as the crack, its old.
As far as a service, we are integrated with all processors.
Our clients list is representative of our solution and performance. Playa's track record speaks for itself and I proudly stand in front of our product and solutions welcoming you to try us out for yourself.

Tucker

01-19-2005, 04:22 PM

WAIT NOW I READ UPDATES:

CNOTE is also StreamOG which is also BuyDRM which is also a former founder of DRMNetworks and the creator of Swap Bucks.

Sir, DO NOT EVER CONFUSE THIS NEXT LINE

Christopher Levy, aka Chris Levy, aka StreamOG, aka CNOTE has nothing, has never had and will never have ANYTHING to do with my company.

Prior to making future defamatory statements, it my hope that you will conduct proper due diligence to prevent the innocent from looking guilty.

At the next Industry Event, I would like to buy you a drink and spend a few minutes talking face to face so that you will learn who I am and not repeat this performance.

gonzo

01-19-2005, 05:59 PM

Check your notes for 230 Peachtree Street Suite 2200 Atlanta Georgia
Lynch International. Charles Lynch, Doug Kreet and myself.

Youll have to go back at least 2 years ago.

To say the experience was unpleasant is an understatement.
You made an phone appointment to get this rollling started and we flew in 2 sets of clients to get the ball rolling. The date of the conference call you didnt call nor answer my phone calls or my ICQ or the email nor would Oystien.

So yeah a year ago the deal was long dead.

I hope you resolved your transition problems.

sarettah

01-19-2005, 08:09 PM

:popcorn:

http://www.cockinpuss.com/newmeter/pissometer/images/small/100steady.gifhttp://www.cockinpuss.com/newmeter/gayometer/images/small/zero.gif

Hell Puppy

01-20-2005, 01:00 AM

Originally posted by DRM Networks+Jan 19 2005, 11:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (DRM Networks @ Jan 19 2005, 11:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Hell Puppy@Jan 19 2005, 12:25 AM
I know of a couple and have been following DRM for 2-3 years. But I'm sure I've overlooked some newcomers and maybe a few that have been around a while.

Who has good flexible solutions...preferably that include an interface to a iPSP for the backend processing?
DRM Networks is the "in house" solution for CCBill and is fully integrated and ready to go if you have a CCBill account.

Our is a very feaure rich solution and is built for very large scale deployment.

Please feel free to contact me or you CCBill rep for additional information.

-Randall [/b][/quote]
Yeah, I've been eyeballing the CCBill product.

Quick question...

Can it run thru an affiliate tracking system other than CCBill's? In other words, process with CCBill, but bounce the transaction thru something like NATS or Mansion so affiliates get tracked same for those sales as they would normal memberships?

Hell Puppy

01-20-2005, 01:16 AM

Also have been looking at PlayaDRM. If it is solid and working, it's rocking.

A couple of the demos for the compact form are broken on the playadrm.com website.

Can someone post here, pm or email me some live implementations from real sites, I wanna see the real deal in action? hellpuppy at hellpuppy dot com

Hell Puppy

01-20-2005, 01:20 AM

All of the DRM solutions price themselves on licenses if nothing else.

I'm under the assumption that a license isn't delivered and charged until the transaction is completed (whatever it may be) and the license to actually play the video is delivered back to the user.

In other words, we do not get dinged for a license transaction everytime someone attempts to play the video and hits the form without ever completing it?

Is my assumption correct?

Otherwise getting one of these videos loose in the wild could really suck...heh. Whereas this should normally be a very positive thing with DRM as there is no play if no pay.

*KK*

01-20-2005, 01:38 AM

HP, I'm sure we'll get Tucker back here to clarify pricing among other questions --

Rolo

01-20-2005, 04:49 AM

Originally posted by VooMan@Jan 19 2005, 08:50 AM
We offer desktop software for DRM encryption, so you can always maintain control of your content...
Very nice :-) Btw. here is a link direct to the solution http://www.natnetdrm.com/

As gonzo said the whole upload/download is an issue, when you have hundreds to thousands of GBs of content.

More DRM providers should have downloable packing software - that would really make it simple for all paysites to start using it, and create extra revenue + stop content theft/sharing.

Tucker

01-20-2005, 07:27 AM

Originally posted by gonzo@Jan 19 2005, 03:00 PM
Check your notes for 230 Peachtree Street Suite 2200 Atlanta Georgia
Lynch International. Charles Lynch, Doug Kreet and myself.

Youll have to go back at least 2 years ago.

To say the experience was unpleasant is an understatement.
You made an phone appointment to get this rollling started and we flew in 2 sets of clients to get the ball rolling. The date of the conference call you didnt call nor answer my phone calls or my ICQ or the email nor would Oystien.

So yeah a year ago the deal was long dead.

I hope you resolved your transition problems.
Sorry I dont recall. BTW PlayaDRM was launched after Phoenix Forum last year so its only about a year old.

:-) I am done.

VooMan

01-20-2005, 10:14 AM

Hell Puppy,

You are correct. A license is not issued until the video is paid for, so you won't get dinged for people attempting to play your content if they haven't bought it...

JoesHO

01-20-2005, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by *KK*@Jan 19 2005, 10:39 PM
HP, I'm sure we'll get Tucker back here to clarify pricing among other questions --
I always enjoyed talking with Tucker, he is a very smart guy and a total professional from all I know about him. As well as very informed

I hope to see him around here much more often, as we all could definatly benifite from his knowledge on Traffic as well.

( I dont know the other guy mentioned, I hope Gonzo has them mixed up, as I am sure he has had the expereience he tells us about too with whomever it was as gonzo only speaks what he believes to be TRUE always) ( I to do think it is someone other than tucker just from what I know of tucker )

cause like I said, Tucker has always ben a classy guy in my book ( my two cents)

Tucker can you please explain how your DRM solution works for people simple minded like me to understand as well?

Nickatilynx

01-20-2005, 11:26 AM

Well as an observer......

There has been a question raised over playadrm by gonzo.

Which still remains unanaswered.Being left as "don't remember"

The other suggestion made is

http://www.natnetdrm.com/

I have no idea , personally , which is the best solution what each offers that the other doesn't really is unclear.

If I was gonna use one at the moment and was in the market I'd have to at this monent lean towards

http://www.natnetdrm.com/

The opening 6 letters....sway me.

Natnet.

I've known /known of SweetT for 7 years.

Have dealt with him over a couple of matters in the distant past.

He is unequivocably a class act.

Just my 2 cents...

I don't know Tucker , and by his retreat from the board I guess I won't get a chance too. ;-)))

Again , just my 2 cents..

Peaches

01-20-2005, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Jan 20 2005, 12:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Jan 20 2005, 12:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Well as an observer......

There has been a question raised over playadrm by gonzo.

Which still remains unanaswered.Being left as "don't remember"[/b]
<!--QuoteBegin-Tucker@Jan 20 2005, 08:28 AM
BTW PlayaDRM was launched after Phoenix Forum last year so its only about a year old.[/quote]
Which would make sense that Tucker doesn't remember something from 2 years ago :awinky:

Looks like Gonzo and Tucker are talking about two different companies, but I could be wrong. It's happened. B)

gonzo

01-20-2005, 11:34 AM

Im looking over all of my DRM research.... I think Dirty DOug has more of it too with a lot of my shit....

When considering DRM solutions I remember this being an issue as well overall for the selection.

http://drmnews.com/freeme.htm

Makes you wonder about Microsoft as a whole for this one...

Ooops Lee has already posted this.

Nickatilynx

01-20-2005, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by Peaches+Jan 20 2005, 08:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Jan 20 2005, 08:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jan 20 2005, 12:27 PM
Well as an observer......

There has been a question raised over playadrm by gonzo.

Which still remains unanaswered.Being left as "don't remember"
<!--QuoteBegin-Tucker@Jan 20 2005, 08:28 AM
BTW PlayaDRM was launched after Phoenix Forum last year so its only about a year old.
Which would make sense that Tucker doesn't remember something from 2 years ago :awinky:

Looks like Gonzo and Tucker are talking about two different companies, but I could be wrong. It's happened. B) [/b][/quote]
May well be the case peaches.

We shall see.

Gonzo is my partner though , thus , well you know :)

PLUS I know and have dealt with SweetT .

I have never met Tucker , though many peoples whose opinion I value , in particular KK , speak well of him.

Because of the first two points , I would , however , edge towards Natnetdrm.com is all.

I hope it does turn out to all be a misunderstanding and hope that Tucker can describe in detail his what his product offers.

VooMan

01-20-2005, 12:06 PM

Thanks for the kind words Nick. Sweet T is a class act, and that's why I've been with NatNet for such a long time... :)

Nickatilynx

01-20-2005, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by VooMan@Jan 20 2005, 09:07 AM
Thanks for the kind words Nick. Sweet T is a class act, and that's why I've been with NatNet for such a long time... :)
Sorry Vooman.

You too , even though we have never met etc , are known to me and your length of time with Natnet.

My apologies.

The fact that you are marketing the product is enough for me to know it is first class product.

VooMan

01-20-2005, 12:33 PM

Oh... no problem at all Nick. No need to apologize. Tony is known and loved by all, while I enjoy being the quiet guy behind the scenes. B)

Dravyk

01-20-2005, 12:39 PM

Technical question for any and all DRM providers ...

When the file is "packaged" with the licensing technology -- aka the WMV file modified -- does that in any way prevent other software or scripts from a) making a thumb from a screen cap via automated software or scripts or server modules or B) in any other way alter the header or anything such that other programs/scripts can no longer recognize, read the file in terms of site publishing?

Just something I've wondered for a while now and which no one's FAQs address.

DirtyDoug

01-20-2005, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by gonzo@Jan 19 2005, 03:00 PM
Check your notes for 230 Peachtree Street Suite 2200 Atlanta Georgia
Lynch International. Charles Lynch, Doug Kreet and myself.

Youll have to go back at least 2 years ago.

To say the experience was unpleasant is an understatement.
You made an phone appointment to get this rollling started and we flew in 2 sets of clients to get the ball rolling. The date of the conference call you didnt call nor answer my phone calls or my ICQ or the email nor would Oystien.

So yeah a year ago the deal was long dead.

I hope you resolved your transition problems.
Tucker,
If you are buying drinks at the next industry event, I am due about 250 thousand of them. Gonzo is correct that you were supposed to meet at 230 Peachtree, Atlanta. We (you, Gonzo and I) even spoke on the phone two weeks prior.

Perhaps you suffer from a disorder where someone forgets shit....what is that called again....ah hell, it will come back to me shortly :headwall:

Nickatilynx

01-20-2005, 03:48 PM

:popcorn:

http://www.cockinpuss.com/newmeter/pissometer/images/small/100steady.gif

:popcorn:

Cleo

01-20-2005, 03:51 PM

The WMV files that are protected will not play on anything but Windows computers. :(

Rolo

01-20-2005, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by Cleo@Jan 20 2005, 12:52 PM
The WMV files that are protected will not play on anything but Windows computers. :(
It will play (soon) on portable devices, set-top boxes, DVD players etc. :)

Cleo

01-20-2005, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by Rolo+Jan 20 2005, 04:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rolo @ Jan 20 2005, 04:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Cleo@Jan 20 2005, 12:52 PM
The WMV files that are protected will not play on anything but Windows computers. :(
It will play (soon) on portable devices, set-top boxes, DVD players etc. :) [/b][/quote]
They don't play on my Mac or my iPod and I doubt they ever will.

Rolo

01-20-2005, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by Cleo+Jan 20 2005, 01:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cleo @ Jan 20 2005, 01:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Rolo@Jan 20 2005, 04:15 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Cleo@Jan 20 2005, 12:52 PM
The WMV files that are protected will not play on anything but Windows computers. :(
It will play (soon) on portable devices, set-top boxes, DVD players etc. :)
They don't play on my Mac or my iPod and I doubt they ever will. [/b][/quote]
Just checked one of our paysites OS stats and 98,5% of the surfers which visited today had a windows system. I do not see that number changing drastic within the next 2 years.

It would be great if there were a DRM system, which was accepted by all - but since this is not the case, then windows DRM with 98,5% coverage will do :)

Nickatilynx

01-20-2005, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by Rolo+Jan 20 2005, 01:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rolo @ Jan 20 2005, 01:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Cleo@Jan 20 2005, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Rolo@Jan 20 2005, 04:15 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Cleo@Jan 20 2005, 12:52 PM
The WMV files that are protected will not play on anything but Windows computers. :(
It will play (soon) on portable devices, set-top boxes, DVD players etc. :)
They don't play on my Mac or my iPod and I doubt they ever will.
Just checked one of our paysites OS stats and 98,5% of the surfers which visited today had a windows system. I do not see that number changing drastic within the next 2 years.

It would be great if there were a DRM system, which was accepted by all - but since this is not the case, then windows DRM with 98,5% coverage will do :) [/b][/quote]
In otherwords...get a proper computer ;-)))

Cleo

01-20-2005, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Jan 20 2005, 05:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Jan 20 2005, 05:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Rolo@Jan 20 2005, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by Cleo@Jan 20 2005, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Rolo@Jan 20 2005, 04:15 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Cleo@Jan 20 2005, 12:52 PM
The WMV files that are protected will not play on anything but Windows computers. :(
It will play (soon) on portable devices, set-top boxes, DVD players etc. :)
They don't play on my Mac or my iPod and I doubt they ever will.
Just checked one of our paysites OS stats and 98,5% of the surfers which visited today had a windows system. I do not see that number changing drastic within the next 2 years.

It would be great if there were a DRM system, which was accepted by all - but since this is not the case, then windows DRM with 98,5% coverage will do :)
In otherwords...get a proper computer ;-))) [/b][/quote]
Don't you have a virus to remove or go get dewormed or something?

Richard N. Bush

01-20-2005, 05:25 PM

I love Mac people, they're so much fun. :lol:

Peaches

01-20-2005, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by Richard N. Bush@Jan 20 2005, 06:26 PM
I love Mac people, they're so much fun. :lol:
It's a cult! I have to deal with Cory and his brainwashing on a daily basis. It scares me. :unsure:

Nickatilynx

01-20-2005, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by Cleo+Jan 20 2005, 02:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Cleo @ Jan 20 2005, 02:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jan 20 2005, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by Rolo@Jan 20 2005, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by Cleo@Jan 20 2005, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Rolo@Jan 20 2005, 04:15 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Cleo@Jan 20 2005, 12:52 PM
The WMV files that are protected will not play on anything but Windows computers. :(
It will play (soon) on portable devices, set-top boxes, DVD players etc. :)
They don't play on my Mac or my iPod and I doubt they ever will.
Just checked one of our paysites OS stats and 98,5% of the surfers which visited today had a windows system. I do not see that number changing drastic within the next 2 years.

It would be great if there were a DRM system, which was accepted by all - but since this is not the case, then windows DRM with 98,5% coverage will do :)
In otherwords...get a proper computer ;-)))
Don't you have a virus to remove or go get dewormed or something? [/b][/quote]
ahahahahahahaha

Yeah... :(

I'll shut up then....

Cleo

01-20-2005, 05:41 PM

Back on topic…

AEBN uses cross platform DRM and Apple, who has 80% of the music market, uses a cross platform DRM.

Just seems like this is the way to go and not get locked into a platform dependent file format.

*KK*

01-20-2005, 08:35 PM

There's a good reason to have as many working platforms as possible for the time being. Real, Divx, etc are all competitive infrastructures with market share. This keeps Microsoft on their toes, so to speak.

As to the Mac issue, no one has DRM that works with it, and it's a Mac problem with the headers, not a Microsoft problem they won't fix.

I'll also say that while Tuckers only human and possibly missed a phone call (especially since I wasn't doing any business with him back then and I dont recall Playa having been launched) I find it odd how Gonzo's conference call,

"Yeah real good. We are still waiting in the conference room downtown for that cocksucker to call us back with all of our clients here for that implementaiton confernce call."

turned into Dirty Dougs meeting in Atlanta, "If you are buying drinks at the next industry event, I am due about 250 thousand of them. Gonzo is correct that you were supposed to meet at 230 Peachtree, Atlanta. "

Just my observation.

Cleo

01-20-2005, 08:41 PM

DRM works on Macs.

AEBN has vids that play just fine on a Mac and have DRM.

Music sold at the iTunes store has DRM and they work on both Mac and Windows.

WMV files with DRM don't work because Micro$oft hasn't included this ability in their WMP for the Mac.

gonzo

01-21-2005, 01:48 AM

Originally posted by *KK*@Jan 20 2005, 08:36 PM

I'll also say that while Tuckers only human and possibly missed a phone call (especially since I wasn't doing any business with him back then and I dont recall Playa having been launched) I find it odd how Gonzo's conference call,

"Yeah real good. We are still waiting in the conference room downtown for that cocksucker to call us back with all of our clients here for that implementaiton confernce call."

turned into Dirty Dougs meeting in Atlanta, "If you are buying drinks at the next industry event, I am due about 250 thousand of them. Gonzo is correct that you were supposed to meet at 230 Peachtree, Atlanta. "

Just my observation.
Doug was responsible for the project so he kept better notes on it than I did. Nothing odd about that. The meeting was missed plain and simple and now in the past.

Remember...theres always more facts and people involved than meets the eye.

Just an observation.

Hell Puppy

01-21-2005, 03:10 AM

Originally posted by VooMan@Jan 20 2005, 10:15 AM
Hell Puppy,

You are correct. A license is not issued until the video is paid for, so you won't get dinged for people attempting to play your content if they haven't bought it...
Thanks to Vooman for providing the answer to my question in amongst the drama!

Anyone you're at liberty to share who is running NatnetDRM that has something posted where I can see it in action?

Dravyk

01-21-2005, 04:16 AM

Well, I am still waiting for my technical question to be answered, assuming any DRM people reading this are still interested in getting back to the business discussion that was lost amonst this other tangential nonsense.

Rolo

01-21-2005, 07:14 AM

Originally posted by Cleo@Jan 20 2005, 05:42 PM
DRM works on Macs.

AEBN has vids that play just fine on a Mac and have DRM.

Music sold at the iTunes store has DRM and they work on both Mac and Windows.

WMV files with DRM don't work because Micro$oft hasn't included this ability in their WMP for the Mac.
Ofcourse you can encode for both real and windows media, but it has to make economic sense, and for most paysites it doesn´t.... 1.5% out of $1M income is $15K - thats $985K from drm wmv efforts, and $15K from drm real efforts - then take into consideration the extra cost of maintaining 2 systems, and I´m sure that there will be close to zero profit on the drm real efforts. Depending on your content, business model etc., then I would say that the "average" paysite out there will have to do several millions income before its something to loose sleep over - and how many paysites are pulling in millions?

Also DRM wmv will be spreading beyond the PC in this and the years to come, so I´m guessing that more and more of that 1.5% will be able to watch DRM wmv in the future.

Cleo

01-21-2005, 07:35 AM

Can you say charge backs as users buy a membership only to find out they can't view the content.

The paysite that I manage had everything as WMV files and then we added Strongbox membership management which broke Mac users from being able to view WMV files. Mac users are less then 10% of her membership but became 100% of hassle instantly. We ended up re-encoding everything as mpegs and all is well now.

WMV with DRM also do not work with Linux or anything except Windows.

As far as WMV appliances growing just keep in mind that Apple's iPod has over 80% of the music player market and it doesn't play WMV files.

Also Linux and Mac market share is growing while Windows has started to decline.

Rolo

01-21-2005, 08:36 AM

Originally posted by Cleo@Jan 21 2005, 04:36 AM
Can you say charge backs as users buy a membership only to find out they can't view the content.
Already established paysites who change to DRM wmv should ofcourse make a introduction periode (2-6 months), where old members are send to the old membership area, and new members are send to the new DRM wmv area. You can even forward old members with windows OS to the new members area. In time those 1-2% of members, which can not play wmv will cancel/expire, without causing chargebacks or support problems. On the tour all samples should be in wmv/asx format, and if you are really paranoid, then tell that the site works with windows (that word will scare all of the hardcore linux/mac users away ;-)) - or you can filter your tour traffic, so people with mac/linux etc. are send to another site...

New sites should have no problems, if they use the tour steps above.

Cleo

01-21-2005, 08:42 AM

Just send all your Mac/Linux traffic to me and I'll be happy to take their money then.

Rolo

01-21-2005, 08:43 AM

Originally posted by Cleo@Jan 21 2005, 04:36 AM
As far as WMV appliances growing just keep in mind that Apple's iPod has over 80% of the music player market and it doesn't play WMV files.

Also Linux and Mac market share is growing while Windows has started to decline.
Well - in porn we sell movies, not audio, so whatever format the current mp3/ipod players of the world is using doesn´t apply to us.

When Mac and Linux have 10% or more of the market, then ofcourse paysites will adapt, and offer drm to them, because it will make economic sense by then. But like I said before, then that will probably not happen in the next 2 years, so why loose sleep over it... DRM for WMV is here today, and it works :)

Rolo

01-21-2005, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by Cleo@Jan 21 2005, 05:43 AM
Just send all your Mac/Linux traffic to me and I'll be happy to take their money then.
Thats the spirit - the market will solve the DRM issues :)

Cleo

01-21-2005, 09:03 AM

Originally posted by Rolo+Jan 21 2005, 08:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rolo @ Jan 21 2005, 08:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Cleo@Jan 21 2005, 05:43 AM
Just send all your Mac/Linux traffic to me and I'll be happy to take their money then.
Thats the spirit - the market will solve the DRM issues :) [/b][/quote]
Yeah I agree. I think all the places that I don't send traffic to should be as unfriendly to non Windows users as they can be.

Rolo

01-21-2005, 09:17 AM

Originally posted by Cleo@Jan 21 2005, 06:04 AM
Yeah I agree. I think all the places that I don't send traffic to should be as unfriendly to non Windows users as they can be.
Or you can just filter your traffic, and keep all of the evangelistic mac/linux users for yourself $$$$ :)

JoesHO

01-21-2005, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by gonzo+Jan 20 2005, 10:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gonzo @ Jan 20 2005, 10:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-*KK*@Jan 20 2005, 08:36 PM

I'll also say that while Tuckers only human and possibly missed a phone call (especially since I wasn't doing any business with him back then and I dont recall Playa having been launched) I find it odd how Gonzo's conference call,

"Yeah real good. We are still waiting in the conference room downtown for that cocksucker to call us back with all of our clients here for that implementaiton confernce call."

turned into Dirty Dougs meeting in Atlanta, "If you are buying drinks at the next industry event, I am due about 250 thousand of them. Gonzo is correct that you were supposed to meet at 230 Peachtree, Atlanta. "

Just my observation.
Doug was responsible for the project so he kept better notes on it than I did. Nothing odd about that. The meeting was missed plain and simple and now in the past.

Remember...theres always more facts and people involved than meets the eye.

Just an observation. [/b][/quote]
Once again, Gonzo proven to be right, as he only speaks the truth...

:okthumb:

That is a bummer , for tucker

Just goes to show you sometimes people make mistakes in their judgements

JoesHO

01-21-2005, 09:41 AM

Also on an other note, I had the great fortune of Talking with VooMan on the phone yesterday, and he was very helpful and went above the calll of duty in answearing my questions.. it was truley a pleasure, and thanks again vooman!!!

DirtyDoug

01-21-2005, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by *KK*@Jan 20 2005, 05:36 PM
There's a good reason to have as many working platforms as possible for the time being. Real, Divx, etc are all competitive infrastructures with market share. This keeps Microsoft on their toes, so to speak.

As to the Mac issue, no one has DRM that works with it, and it's a Mac problem with the headers, not a Microsoft problem they won't fix.

I'll also say that while Tuckers only human and possibly missed a phone call (especially since I wasn't doing any business with him back then and I dont recall Playa having been launched) I find it odd how Gonzo's conference call,

"Yeah real good. We are still waiting in the conference room downtown for that cocksucker to call us back with all of our clients here for that implementaiton confernce call."

turned into Dirty Dougs meeting in Atlanta, "If you are buying drinks at the next industry event, I am due about 250 thousand of them. Gonzo is correct that you were supposed to meet at 230 Peachtree, Atlanta. "

Just my observation.
KK
Here is an "observation" for you.
DRM is like opinions. Everyone thinks that their shit is the latest and greatest but so far it has been smoke and mirrors.
The bottom line is that if you sit around and talk shit, you get nothing done.
The thing is getting the work done and the performance of the product and the people who claim to know it, sell it, and support is vital. Sounds to me like you became an expert overnight. I've been doing this ever since DivX started making their claims.

If you can't get the deal closed then you might as well call yourself John-Michael Cataldi.
(If you have not had the pleasure of meeting John-Michael, ask Gonzo. He will be happy to explain the Cataldi Doctrine)

History repeats itself, those who do not study it and take head are DOOMED to repeat it.
I would prefer not to throw a multi million dollar deal to someone who doesn't have the common fucking sense to return a phone call or to cancel a meeting.
:rokk: [B][I]

VooMan

01-21-2005, 10:30 AM

Dravyk, drop me an email to andrew at nat net dot comma. I have an idea that might answer your question.

HP, we have demos on our site, but you can also go to http://www.emx.com.

JoesHo, it was a pleasure chatting with you as well. Thanks for the kind words. :)

DirtyDoug

01-21-2005, 10:38 AM

Anyone know what ever happend to Enscaler (Strem Green)?

Enscaler is another on of those groups that talk the talk but cannot walk the walk.
We helped to pay for the development of their DRM and they assured me that their DRM could not be craked, hacked or otherwise fooled into issuing a license without paying for it I was offered $180K if I could crack their "Security". Guess what folks, I did it in 15 seconds. Did they pay...hell no. They changed their name to Stream Green and now, or last I heard, they were scamming other folks into buying into their crap.
Hey Gonzo, does John-Michael work for Stream Green?

:rokk:

BTW, don't expect them to pick up the tab for dinner. They cost me $1K at Red Square in Vegas.

drmsystems

01-21-2005, 12:56 PM

Check out www.drm-systems.com

Send us an icq at 27701318 if u want to talk or email sales@sexmoney.com

gonzo

01-21-2005, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by drmsystems@Jan 21 2005, 12:57 PM
Check out www.drm-systems.com

Send us an icq at 27701318 if u want to talk or email sales@sexmoney.com
Doesnt really say much.
How about some pricing for the folks looking for a solution in the thread?

DirtyDoug

01-22-2005, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by drmsystems@Jan 21 2005, 09:57 AM
Check out www.drm-systems.com

Send us an icq at 27701318 if u want to talk or email sales@sexmoney.com
I looked at the site and I am not impressed. Big surprise there.

Look, if I can't load your DRM solution( wrapping engine and licensing server) onto one of my servers in my collocation facility, it is WORTHLESS SNAKE OIL.

I am not sure if you have figured this out yet, but most of the companies that claim to have a DRM solution are out of business. Why? Who cares...The point here is that I am not going to constantly re-wrap and or re-load all of my content, roughly 10 thousand hours, legally licensed, each and every time a DRM solution provider goes under.

If you have a real DRM solution, that I cannot crack, that I can wrap content and serve licenses from a server that I own, in a colo facility I own...then I will talk to you.

I understand that you want to ensure that you have some control so that a John-Michael Cataldi doesn't use your product without paying for it. However, those of us who are real businessmen, that survived all of the dot com crashes did so because we are not stupid and we do not rely on people or products that we can't use after you vultur capital runs out.

:headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall:

Hell Puppy

01-22-2005, 04:21 PM

What I'm seeing here is there's an opportunity for someone to step up with the right product, business and marketing plan and own DRM as it's still wide open.

I also tend to agree with Doug. There's a huge investment in time to wrap these videos and if you dont have the ability to serve the licenses yourself, you could find your entire library rendered worthless overnight because your DRM provider went tits up.

We take this same risk with our processors, but the difference with processors is you just cut in a different join page. The idea of rewrapping thousands of hours of video is not pleasant.

Whether you are into the drama or not, this does make it important to consider how the DRM companies and their owners conduct their business as part of whether you hook up with them or not regardless of how technically proficient their product is.

Best I can tell, no one is offering to sell you a run-your-own license server deal.

Rolo

01-22-2005, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Jan 22 2005, 01:22 PM
Best I can tell, no one is offering to sell you a run-your-own license server deal.
http://www.dmdsecure.com/products.htm is one of the server DRM providers.

Personally I think most paysites can feel safe, if they choose providers like http://www.natnetdrm.com/ which have already proven their stability in the hosting business.

But yes, more and better solution would be great - competition is good :-)

Eddie

01-22-2005, 06:39 PM

Originally posted by Dravyk@Jan 20 2005, 09:40 AM
Technical question for any and all DRM providers ...

When the file is "packaged" with the licensing technology -- aka the WMV file modified -- does that in any way prevent other software or scripts from a) making a thumb from a screen cap via automated software or scripts or server modules or B) in any other way alter the header or anything such that other programs/scripts can no longer recognize, read the file in terms of site publishing?

Just something I've wondered for a while now and which no one's FAQs address.
I actuallly ran into this very issue. All my video is already uploaded to my server, I use MAS and like it very much altho I have to admit I'm still learning it. One of the features that I'm using is automatic thumbnailing of any clip I upload, works well, a few bugs but FAR better than doing it by hand.

Anyway, PlayerDRM had talked about intergrating with MAS, I guess the files would be indexed, and thumbnialed then wrapped, but for this to happen the wrapping would have to happen on my local server, and could not be sent back and forth like the other solution, including playerDRMs that I have seen. Becuase of this, DRM came to a halt and we are still not using it. If they finially do get aroung to a full intergration with MAS I would surely take another look and would most likely use it.