The gay market

[TheEnforcer]

Been in and out of this biz for a while now and I've never tried selling gay sites other than on the occasional filter page in the past and was wondering if anybody here knows the market well because it seems to me to be an untapped income stream that I might want to check into. Any info on how crowded the market is, where to find good places to submit galleries to, what sponsors convert and have content I could use and such would be appreciated.

[Nickatilynx]

Its a very lucrative market no doubt.

But designing a site for the gay market is hard.

I am a true believer that in porn mainstream you need to build sites for your particular kink.(ie ANYONE can build , say a beast site)

Hence most of mine are girl-next-door sites. My particular "thing"

For Example :I used to physically beat designers that put girls with fake tits on my Amateur paysites , cause few "amateurs" have fake tits. Though I actually do know some now that do on a private level ;-)))

But they didn't realise that.

Imagine therefore how hard it would be for a st8 man to build gay sites?

JMHO.

[jonjayw]

Originally posted by TheEnforcer@Jan 7 2005, 09:00 AM
Been in and out of this biz for a while now and I've never tried selling gay sites other than on the occasional filter page in the past and was wondering if anybody here knows the market well because it seems to me to be an untapped income stream that I might want to check into. Any info on how crowded the market is, where to find good places to submit galleries to, what sponsors convert and have content I could use and such would be appreciated.


This post edited for spam....

not removed as the thread is a fair one.

If he stayed and contributed I would have allowed it ...gaave him a few hours to answer my post , he didn't.

regds,
Nickatilynx

[Nickatilynx]

see above

It might have been nice if you had explained a wee bit on here too.

You know ......

It might also be nice if you had a link to oprano too..you don't.

[TheEnforcer]

Contribute to the gumbo here a bit and I'll be MORE than happy to check out your resource as I can use the education. This is a great place to hang out and talk biz or just shoot the shit. Nick and Gonzo are very fair and the people here some of the best and brightest on the web today. Your business will benefit by contributing here. I just opened a board and gave them a nice link back and they are kind enough to let me fly the board in my sig, which many other places wouldn't do.
So jump on in and enjoy yourself here at oprano!! :rokk:

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jan 7 2005, 12:21 PM
Its a very lucrative market no doubt.

But designing a site for the gay market is hard.

I am a true believer that in porn mainstream you need to build sites for your particular kink.(ie ANYONE can build , say a beast site)

Hence most of mine are girl-next-door sites. My particular "thing"

For Example :I used to physically beat designers that put girls with fake tits on my Amateur paysites , cause few "amateurs" have fake tits. Though I actually do know some now that do on a private level ;-)))

But they didn't realise that.

Imagine therefore how hard it would be for a st8 man to build gay sites?

JMHO.
One area where i haven't changed much is my design style!! LOL Old school ugly is what I like to call it!! :okthumb:

VERY light on graphics, usualy only an odd style banner, accompanied by lots of very descriptive text. I use text that reads like a 1000 page novel compared to the graphic, sound bite heavy style popular today. I get less clicks to the site but I have just as many sales and a better ratio because if they got through my text they are a motivated surfer wanting to see what the hell I am talking about. I also try and personalize the text as well as it seems to help quite a bit in the "hook" to get them interested. For example, this is a relatively short one I've used in the past for tranny pages.

The first time I got fucked in the ass by a tranny it was a surprise! I was dating a rather kinky slut who wanted me to do a bi-sexual 3-way and I was so adamantly opposed it wasn’t even funny! Well I often let her blindfold me and probe my ass with a small dildo! One time when I was blindfolded she substituted her dildo with a chick with a dick! I was hooked and now I can’t get enough! Try it for yourself and you’ll see!

[Nickatilynx]

OK... well now ya just weirded me out..lol

Gonna edit that guys post as it was obvious drive by spam

If he wants to come and contribute its one thing , but that was ass!

[TheEnforcer]

No problem, very understandable. :okthumb:

I'm sure someone else will come along.

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jan 7 2005, 12:21 PM
(ie ANYONE can build , say a beast site)

and if only there were more/better processing options...er, I mean...yup, I agree
;-))))

[TheEnforcer]

damn.. i had that "Oh shit, what did Sykk say now feeling" when i saw you were last to post in this thread and that's al there is? <_< Thought fr sure You were gonna have a zinger al lined uo for me!!

[TheEnforcer]

whoa.. nap time was unkind to my typing skills! :blink:

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by SykkBoy+Jan 7 2005, 02:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SykkBoy @ Jan 7 2005, 02:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Jan 7 2005, 12:21 PM
(ie ANYONE can build , say a beast site)

and if only there were more/better processing options...er, I mean...yup, I agree
;-)))) [/b][/quote]
:ph34r:

[cj]

TE, http://www.gaywidewebmasters.com - plenty of resources there to get you started ...

As Nick said, we all have a 'pet niche' that we are best at, but a good marketer can sell ANY widgets to ANY audience - if its not your pet niche, you just need to spend more time researching your audience and your widget, and see what it is that brings them together.

While it is a lucrative market, you are putting yourself in a position where you are competing with sites that are of a much higher standard in general than straight porn. And if you rely on text to sell to surfers, you'll have to really learn the market well ...

The biggest mistake straight men make when trying to target the gay market is being offensive, without realizing it ...

[TheEnforcer]

Thanks fort the post cj. Good stuff there.

Yeah, it's a mindset with the text that will be completely different than straight porn and will take some education to get right. I've been able to pretty much understand and nail down good text for all the straight ncihes. Had to come up with 1100 unique text links for a program that had a whole shitload of niches and they loved the work though they thought my mind was a bit twisted with all the freaky stuff I came up wit!! LOL :lol:

I'm thinking that to start a site like the reality ones that talk about a straight guys first experience with gay sex might be easier to start with because at least there I can try and examine that aspect it from a straight guy point of view and sell it from that aspect.

[XXXPhoto]

FWIW, reading through blogs mantained by gay men will offer a good peek into the niche beyond basic vocab such as pitchers, catchers, twinks, bears, and breeders.

[BillPMB]

Ah, the gay market.

Just like BDSM, if they smell Vanilla, they're gone unless it's something that catches their eye they simply have to see, hear, feel, touch, whatever.

You've got to be able to speak the lingo.

Saying something like "gay fags fucking" will offend them. If it's a gay site, they know it's gay, so you don't have include that. Fags is also dirogitory, like using the "N" word.

Brush up on your slang.

http://www.hurricane.net/~wizard/19.html

Not too heavy on it, but ensure that your sales text is respectful, pretend you're talking to a woman, because they're very sensitive. They like romance just like a woman. Saying HOT TWINKS FUCKED RAW MY HUGE BLACK DICKS will likely make most pewk. Saying "SMOOTH BOYS FIND OUT THAT ONCE YOU GO BLACK YOU'LL NEVER GO BACK MAY BE A LIE!" may surprise you in CTR numbers.

Ya see, gay men are different from straight guys in the head. We're visual, they're emotional. Straight dates are dinner/movie/kiss 2nd date dinner/move/drink inside their place/maybe dry humping (remember, I'm older than you)

Gay dates are different. 1st date is dinner/movie/sex 2nd date is UHaul moving in and a new toothbrush.

Figure THAT out.

:D

[TheEnforcer]

Hmmm... good idea for research there photo! Thanks! :okthumb:

[TheEnforcer]

Thanks for the input Bill. Great post! Its definately a different midset than I am used to and will take some time to learn. The mindset is key, especially the way I prefer to write text as most often I try and personalize it. That'se the reality turn straight guy gay site might be best to start with first because I at least have a frame of referance I can try and draw on and use my imagination with.

[TheEnforcer]

Wow. Good referance tool on that link you gave me Bill. Thanks much!! :okthumb:

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by TheEnforcer@Jan 7 2005, 11:20 PM
I'm thinking that to start a site like the reality ones that talk about a straight guys first experience with gay sex might be easier to start with because at least there I can try and examine that aspect it from a straight guy point of view and sell it from that aspect.
um, so you'll be experimenting with gay sex? not that there's anything wrong with that...

[TheEnforcer]

Hahaha.. um no... my reasearch doesn't need to go into that much detail. :lol:

[BillPMB]

You're welcome, from what I've seen the best BIG ASS SPONSOR grasp of gay site marketing on the tours is topbucks, blueloot, and us to a certain degree. I'm surprised by pridebucks conversions (for me they suck) but topbucks, blueloot and pmb convert great with my traffic and style.


AVS works great too if you know how to work it. Also, with google adwords changing the BYOT thingys will be lucrivtive if you have lots of domains to build tours on. PPC works well if you write your ads correctly. I do better than 1:10 conversions on some keywords at 20 bucks a signup for a free membership and 1:19 for a trial to recurring. You just have to practice. AVS is the best place to practice IMHO

Slang trivia? What is a "Bat"

:)

[TheEnforcer]

Having a big penis!! Though it also has tow other meaning, a prositute and just a word for a fellow homosexual.

[TheEnforcer]

You know I never did work with AVS sites at all. Don't know why but I never got into that area though it certainly was a profitable one.

[BillPMB]

Ya got it! :)

Now all we need is for Serge to introduce a PPC program for winetalk that pays 5 cents a click from gay websites. He'd be bleeding Shiraz in a day I tell ya!

I'm in Orlando tomorrow for the night then on a boat going to the bahamas. I'd tell ya about the trip, but I plan on drinking lots of foofoo fruity concoctions to unwind a bit before we unveil a shitload of new tours, sites, hosted galleries and all that jazz.

I need a vacation. One can't run a biz like this on 16 hour days forever ya know. My brick and mortar biz's take time too.

Hey Serge, my fave Champagne is Vueve Cliequot Ponsardin (Brut of course) for every day consumption. Good stuff!

All the free site, TGP, pic post whores out there! AVS makes NO MONEY, NONE!

:D (well I guess it doesn't for dolts)

[TheEnforcer]

Enjoy the vacation Bill!! Thanks for the posts! :okthumb:

[Lee]

Will post some info for you in the morning after i have recovered from our 15 hour return flight from hell :(

[pushpills]

It's all about the niche and the gay niche is a big one. The thing is, you gotta do a good amount of work on it for just what one niche, as for others, you can generalize everything, the console chains etc. But gay guys have more spendable cash, and even the "straight" surfers buy gay, and convert better than they would on other sites.

Niche is why I love tranny surfers. I know how to convert em, and I know they want that content if they are targeted. If you have a general surfer going to "super teen sluts with airbrushing and fake tits.com" enjoy the half a cent per click, get the niched surfer, and you get bank, not just the origonal conversion, but the exits as well.

Like I say, fuck teen. The lowest converting product on the internet.

[BillPMB]

"Like I say, fuck teen. The lowest converting product on the internet. "

That's fine, keep fucking it, because I have sites that convert between 1:9 - 1:13 off search engine traffic.

:)

[Newton]

Bill have a fantastic vacation :okthumb:

[aeon]

Originally posted by BillPMB@Jan 8 2005, 03:26 AM
That's fine, keep fucking it, because I have sites that convert between 1:9 - 1:13 off search engine traffic.
I want my cut...you cheap old bastard.

Fags love their shit niched out to the max from what I gather & 99% of actual ass wrangler traffic is controlled by straight guys.

The key is finding places to buy it that aren't uppity over their GLAD membership dues.

[cj]

Originally posted by aeon@Jan 8 2005, 03:54 PM
Fags love their shit niched out to the max from what I gather & 99% of actual ass wrangler traffic is controlled by straight guys.

The key is finding places to buy it that aren't uppity over their GLAD membership dues.
LMAO

morons chair nomination :rolleyes:

:burn:

[Lee]

Been in and out of this biz for a while now and I've never tried selling gay sites other than on the occasional filter page in the past and was wondering if anybody here knows the market well because it seems to me to be an untapped income stream that I might want to check into.

Whilst i would agree with most of what has been mentiond already it is noteworthy that the gay market, apart from the differences in marketing, is also different in the fact that the vast majority of gay surfers are EXTREMELY loyal to more 'community' orientated sites and members areas that offer them above and beyond what the 'norm' for the straight side of the industry currently offers their member base.

I would honestly start out by marketing affiliate sites, as CJ mentioned above, GWW offers some exceptional resources for anyone, gay or straight, male or female looking to enter that market and it would be worthwhile checking out some of the sponsors listed there as well as joining the community that we have built up, it really is full of great advice on a daily basis.

The only issue that you should be made aware of in the gay market are the various 'cliques' that operate within it. There are, unfortunately, those groups who beleive that only gay webmasters and companies should be allowed to profit from the gay market place and, whilst we are working on rebutting those claims, it is a slow process but, it is beginning to happen. At the end of the day, whether it is green or pink, the dollar all looks the same in my, your and anyones bank account.

Any info on how crowded the market is, where to find good places to submit galleries to, what sponsors convert and have content I could use and such would be appreciated.

As with the straight marketplace the gay side of the industry has its oversaturated niches such as twinks, asian, ebony etc. In all honesty you would probably be better focused using those types of sites as supplemental sites and focusing primarily more on the highly targeted niche specific sites, feet, hair color, etc etc although, because of the huge saturation by those 'cliques' of twink sites, the good selling sites are few and far between.

As i mentioned above, head across to GWW and see what we have listed there as well as asking on the community what sponsors others use for the sake of saving time i would suggest signing up at the following sponsors..

http://www.hunkmoney.com
http://www.pridebucks.com
http://gay.topbucks.com
http://www.brendonsbucks.com
http://www.badpuppy.com
http://www.bigcashsociety.com
http://www.cockscash.com

Using a mixture of the sites those 7 sponsors have to offer, you wont go far wrong.

As for the content issue, i really wouldnt use sponsor provided content to promote sites in the gay marketplace, it really has been used and abused by everyone and their boyfriend to much already, instead, opt to spend a couple of hundred bucks on content from providers such as maxpixels.com ounique.com and our content store rainbowcontent.com (which is due for launch later this month hehe). However, make sure you order after they have updated their content selections otherwise, you will find that the sets you buy become stale very quickly ;)

As for traffic, personally i find that gay tgp is at best, hit or miss, in fact whenever we do tgp submissions we rely on the traffic purely from a site building perspective and, if any sales are made from the galleries, we view that as a bonus, get the traffic to a central hub that you own and keep hold of it for as long as possible, there are, realistically only around 10 big gay tgps and, inevitably, they all trade traffic with each other on a daily basis so the traffic you get after submitting tomorrows gallery, will be the same surfers you got after submitting yesterdays gallery ;)

Personally, i prefer submitting to TGPs like our own http://www.cumsoda.com that doesnt trade traffic but has built the traffic through more traditional methods such as seo and hard link trades the quanities of traffic are lower but, it is much more potent.

If you have any other specific questions feel free to join the GWW community as i have already mentioned or, ask them over here and ill be happy to give you as much assistance as possible in breaking in to this profitable market.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by cj@Jan 7 2005, 08:19 PM
As Nick said, we all have a 'pet niche' that we are best at, but a good marketer can sell ANY widgets to ANY audience - if its not your pet niche, you just need to spend more time researching your audience and your widget, and see what it is that brings them together.
Completely agree. You don't have to understand something you just have to hire someone that does.

[Almighty Colin]

Go to Lee's events. Learn. Thanks, Lee!

[gonzo]

Originally posted by Colin@Jan 9 2005, 08:00 AM
Go to Lee's events. Learn. Thanks, Lee!
Now we know where Colin was hanging out.
And that should tell everyone a lot! [not a burn]

Lee....do you change personas between Oprano and The Zoo? I swear to God the difference is between night and day.

[gonzo]

Originally posted by Lee@Jan 9 2005, 07:02 AM
If you have any other specific questions feel free to join the GWW community as i have already mentioned or, ask them over here and ill be happy to give you as much assistance as possible in breaking in to this profitable market.
Consider this a formal invite to Oprano. All are welcome here to do business.

[Lee]

Originally posted by Colin@Jan 9 2005, 05:00 AM
Go to Lee's events. Learn. Thanks, Lee!
Colin no problems bro.

The pleasure was entirely ours but as requested, we will keep those lap dancer pics you had hidden ;)

Looking forward to working with you in the near future i know you have some great stuff planned :)

[Lee]

Originally posted by gonzo@Jan 9 2005, 05:10 AM
Now we know where Colin was hanging out.
And that should tell everyone a lot! [not a burn]

Lee....do you change personas between Oprano and The Zoo? I swear to God the difference is between night and day.
Haha you know, i only saw Colin a couple of times, once at the sponsor hosted meal as part of the GWB events and once at the Orchid Lounge in the Mandalay Bay although, you could tell the guy was class after the first meeting :)

Gonzo, dont know what you mean bro, i treat everyone the way they deserve to be treated ;)

[TheEnforcer]

Thanks for the reply Lee. Good stuff there. I will definately be checking out the resource site. :okthumb: