Speaking of Shaving..

[Lee]

http://www.FuckYouLensman.com/showthread.p...eadid=404688&s= (http://www.FuckYouLensman.com/showthread.php?threadid=404688&s=)

Apparently its not possible to shave when using NATs.

Seems to me like a lot of these affiliate script owners dont understand the concept behind if a program wants to shave, they will find a way, no matter how easy / difficult it is.

[BillPMB]

That page isn't coming up for me even though I can ping the domain just fine.

ALL pps programs shave. Wake up and smell the coffee. Just do the math.

Variables

Number of Signups 500
Trial $2.95
Regular $39.95
PPS $35.00
% of Referred Signups 85%
Fixed Expenses $20,000.00

Monthly Retention Levels
Trial to Full 40%
Month 2 28%
Month 3 17%
Month 4 10%
Month 5 5%


Month 1
Initial $45,208.75
Recurring $244,893.50
Additional Income $31,546.88
Advertising Expenses $(455,918.75)
Processing Expenses $(72,147.04)
Fixed Expenses $(20,000.00)
Profit $(226,416.66)


At 500 signups per day paying $35 per signup billing $39.95 per monthly membership with fixed expenses at 20 grand a month for hosting, content, employees, etc with a chargeback ratio of 1% and billing fees at 10% a pay per signup program is almost a quarter mil in the hole at month 1 of the start of measurement. That's with a 40% trial to regular member conversion which is probably a fair number in surfing some of the member areas out there to see what is what.

That is at an 85% shave, where 15% of the incoming sales aren't reported or credited to the webmaster. At this rate of shave, the program starts making money at month 5 and actually starts doing ok thereafter.

If a program were not shaving at all, using just the income derived from the signups. No cross selling, upselling, NADA. Then at month 5 they would be 20 grand in the black for THAT MONTH, but still be over a half million in the red from the previous 4 months.

Now, if there were some method of only allowing your traffic to leave your sites when there were green lights at the intersections, then you'd have it licked.

BTW, if you'd like to know the point where you could start a PPS program and make money right out of the gate the shave % would be 42% . Where 58% of the incoming signups are not counted, credited or reported/paid.

42% would probably be the "weasel factor"

;)

:pearl:

[Timon]

40% trial to full?

That's pretty optimistic ;-)

or should that be ;-(

[BillPMB]

hehehe,

We're at 51% last month. So, it's feasible.

;)

[Anthony]

Originally posted by BillPMB@Dec 19 2004, 06:36 AM
That page isn't coming up for me even though I can ping the domain just fine.

ALL pps programs shave. Wake up and smell the coffee. Just do the math.

Variables

Number of Signups 500
Trial $2.95
Regular $39.95
PPS $35.00
% of Referred Signups 85%
Fixed Expenses $20,000.00

Monthly Retention Levels
Trial to Full 40%
Month 2 28%
Month 3 17%
Month 4 10%
Month 5 5%


Month 1
Initial $45,208.75
Recurring $244,893.50
Additional Income $31,546.88
Advertising Expenses $(455,918.75)
Processing Expenses $(72,147.04)
Fixed Expenses $(20,000.00)
Profit $(226,416.66)


At 500 signups per day paying $35 per signup billing $39.95 per monthly membership with fixed expenses at 20 grand a month for hosting, content, employees, etc with a chargeback ratio of 1% and billing fees at 10% a pay per signup program is almost a quarter mil in the hole at month 1 of the start of measurement. That's with a 40% trial to regular member conversion which is probably a fair number in surfing some of the member areas out there to see what is what.

That is at an 85% shave, where 15% of the incoming sales aren't reported or credited to the webmaster. At this rate of shave, the program starts making money at month 5 and actually starts doing ok thereafter.

If a program were not shaving at all, using just the income derived from the signups. No cross selling, upselling, NADA. Then at month 5 they would be 20 grand in the black for THAT MONTH, but still be over a half million in the red from the previous 4 months.

Now, if there were some method of only allowing your traffic to leave your sites when there were green lights at the intersections, then you'd have it licked.

BTW, if you'd like to know the point where you could start a PPS program and make money right out of the gate the shave % would be 42% . Where 58% of the incoming signups are not counted, credited or reported/paid.

42% would probably be the "weasel factor"

;)

:pearl:
Best Post EVER!

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by BillPMB@Dec 19 2004, 06:36 AM
That page isn't coming up for me even though I can ping the domain just fine.

ALL pps programs shave. Wake up and smell the coffee. Just do the math.

Variables

Number of Signups 500
Trial $2.95
Regular $39.95
PPS $35.00
% of Referred Signups 85%
Fixed Expenses $20,000.00

Monthly Retention Levels
Trial to Full 40%
Month 2 28%
Month 3 17%
Month 4 10%
Month 5 5%


Month 1
Initial $45,208.75
Recurring $244,893.50
Additional Income $31,546.88
Advertising Expenses $(455,918.75)
Processing Expenses $(72,147.04)
Fixed Expenses $(20,000.00)
Profit $(226,416.66)


At 500 signups per day paying $35 per signup billing $39.95 per monthly membership with fixed expenses at 20 grand a month for hosting, content, employees, etc with a chargeback ratio of 1% and billing fees at 10% a pay per signup program is almost a quarter mil in the hole at month 1 of the start of measurement. That's with a 40% trial to regular member conversion which is probably a fair number in surfing some of the member areas out there to see what is what.

That is at an 85% shave, where 15% of the incoming sales aren't reported or credited to the webmaster. At this rate of shave, the program starts making money at month 5 and actually starts doing ok thereafter.

If a program were not shaving at all, using just the income derived from the signups. No cross selling, upselling, NADA. Then at month 5 they would be 20 grand in the black for THAT MONTH, but still be over a half million in the red from the previous 4 months.

Now, if there were some method of only allowing your traffic to leave your sites when there were green lights at the intersections, then you'd have it licked.

BTW, if you'd like to know the point where you could start a PPS program and make money right out of the gate the shave % would be 42% . Where 58% of the incoming signups are not counted, credited or reported/paid.

42% would probably be the "weasel factor"

;)

:pearl:
Someone finally posted the math!!!

Awesome!

Man this needs its own thread....let me do that please,,,

[gonzo]

There are several ways to shave. Maybe I need to put that in my Klixxx blog along with Bills mighty fine post!

[Rolo]

Originally posted by BillPMB@Dec 19 2004, 06:36 AM
ALL pps programs shave. Wake up and smell the coffee. Just do the math.
I guess that means the $30/PPS on PMB is *not* coming soon ;-))))

[Rolo]

Originally posted by Timon@Dec 19 2004, 07:20 AM
40% trial to full?

That's pretty optimistic ;-)

or should that be ;-(
I was thinking the same - especially if we look at all of sites out there. Sure with the right traffic, tour, pricing, members area, then you can get good numbers, but taking a general niche/hardcore site, feeding it with TGP traffic, selling a cheap trial + $39.95/month, and then letting the members into a feeder members area - that will not make 40% - more like ½ of that..

[Nickatilynx]

Anyone notice the lack of major pay site owners joining in?

;-)))))


But the logs show they visited :)

;-)))

[BillPMB]

"I guess that means the $30/PPS on PMB is *not* coming soon ;-)))) "

No, but something else that can be profitable for the webmasters and the program where a shave isn't necessary to profit. I dunno how well it will be received, but it's an honest buck. We'll see how it goes. Not even NEAR ready yet.

That $30 thing was Diamond Jim's thing and it never got launched. There were quite a few webmasters that we were doing private pps deals with though. That was well over a year ago though.

Shit, I guess I can kiss my fruit baskets and stuff buh bye this year.

damn......

It's extremely important to know your retention percentages. Those are the difference between a penthouse at luxor or the quality inn way the fuck off the strip.

Cross sells are important too. We don't do them in our revshare model, that would defeat the purpose of retaining the customer obviously.

Those enormous programs out there pay on time, give a good amount of money out in payouts monthly and many webmasters rely on them to pay the rent, and at the end of the day, if you're happy with your numbers and the program is staying viable and keeps paying you.

It's all good. ;)

[gonzo]

Originally posted by BillPMB@Dec 19 2004, 06:55 PM
"It's all good. ;)
The spirit of Kaiser has possesed him!

Somebody save him!!!

[Newton]

These are excellent, informative and honest posts, about the world we all move within. :wnw:

[Timon]

:wankit: :wankit: :wankit: