Shaving! [Archive] - Oprano Adult Industry Forums

Nickatilynx

12-17-2004, 07:10 PM

Originally posted by Lee+Dec 17 2004, 04:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Lee @ Dec 17 2004, 04:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-JoesHO1@Dec 17 2004, 04:52 PM
I mean how come the sponsors don't just lower their payouts to a reasonable split, and count every hit? would this not solve a bunch of fraud problems on everyones part?
He who controls the traffic, controls the revenue.

The higher the payout and the more tours an affiliate program has, the more traffic affiliates will send them.

The more traffic affiliates send them, the more money they can make through transparent shaving, the more money they make through transparent shaving, the more marketing they can do to their affiliates.. higher payouts, more tours, more niches, etc etc and so the cycle begins anew.

Its a traffic figures game.. nothing more, nothing less :)

Thats one of the reasons when we launch our new program early next year, we're going to have 50 sites with multiple tours and payout up to $44 per sale ;) [/b][/quote]

Its about the check at the end of the week.

Don't look at your stats , look at the check.

Nickatilynx

12-17-2004, 07:12 PM

LOL...hence why I edited my post...but you caught me!!

LOL

Nickatilynx

12-17-2004, 07:30 PM

The real fun used to be "reverse shaving" some people

ie adding in a few signups , so the guy would be all over the boards

" Holy crap man , I'm converting at 1 in 17 with blah blah blah"

;-)))

Winetalk.com

12-17-2004, 07:39 PM

all?

gigi

12-17-2004, 07:41 PM

I chose 80-100% because I like to have SOME level of trust that there are still honest people in the biz. ;)

Rolo

12-17-2004, 07:43 PM

intentionally? :unsure:

Lee

12-17-2004, 07:44 PM

Well im not going to vote on this purely because everyones perception of what 'shaving' is is different from one another.

To me, the most blatent form of 'acceptable' shaving are cross sells from exit consoles that affiliates dont get credit for, the programs use affiliates traffic to generate income without paying the affiliate a portion of those funds, to me, that is no different than if a sponsor 'shaved' sales directly from their program.

On the same note, upsells in a members area to some are also considered as shaving, again, the affiliate program benefits from the affiiates traffic and, although the affiliate has been rewarded for sending the member to the site, there is still some uncertainty as to whether or not an affiliate should be given credits for members areas upsells or not.

Then as already mentioned there is is the, affiliate sends in 10k hits to a sponsors tour page, 8k of those hits 'disappear' when they click through to the 2nd tour page or how the sponsors only count unique hits and not raw, if i send a potential member to a paysite tour who has decided they want to join a site they previously didnt want to.. i dont get credited for the sale because they arent a 'unique' visitor.

Basically, on some levels, shaving is an acceptable business practise by many in the industry however, there are methods of transparent shaving that many simply dont look at thus the reason why i not voting in the poll.. until you would like to clarify your definition of shaving in this meaning of the word ;)

I am of course, just being an asshole for the sake of it after having a really shitty day and finding out there were no copies of collateral left in Blockbusters LOL

Winetalk.com

12-17-2004, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by Rolo@Dec 17 2004, 07:44 PM
intentionally? :unsure:
do contract killers do it intentionally or just because they like to kill?
;-)))

Lee

12-17-2004, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Dec 17 2004, 04:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Dec 17 2004, 04:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Rolo@Dec 17 2004, 07:44 PM
intentionally? :unsure:
do contract killers do it intentionally or just because they like to kill?
;-))) [/b][/quote]
A bit of both i guess lol

JoesHO

12-17-2004, 07:51 PM

I vote 100%
what I do not understand, is why?

I mean how come the sponsors don't just lower their payouts to a reasonable split, and count every hit? would this not solve a bunch of fraud problems on everyones part?

i

Rolo

12-17-2004, 07:53 PM

Last sponsors I acused of shaving sent this person to my house with a message

http://www.harleyrendezvous.com/2003-pics/beard.jpg

"We do no shaving! But he will shave your testicles..." :ph34r:

Lee

12-17-2004, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by JoesHO1@Dec 17 2004, 04:52 PM
I mean how come the sponsors don't just lower their payouts to a reasonable split, and count every hit? would this not solve a bunch of fraud problems on everyones part?
He who controls the traffic, controls the revenue.

The higher the payout and the more tours an affiliate program has, the more traffic affiliates will send them.

The more traffic affiliates send them, the more money they can make through transparent shaving, the more money they make through transparent shaving, the more marketing they can do to their affiliates.. higher payouts, more tours, more niches, etc etc and so the cycle begins anew.

Its a traffic figures game.. nothing more, nothing less :)

Thats one of the reasons when we launch our new program early next year, we're going to have 50 sites with multiple tours and payout up to $44 per sale ;)

Lee

12-17-2004, 07:58 PM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Dec 17 2004, 04:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Dec 17 2004, 04:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Lee@Dec 17 2004, 04:55 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-JoesHO1@Dec 17 2004, 04:52 PM
I mean how come the sponsors don't just lower their payouts to a reasonable split, and count every hit? would this not solve a bunch of fraud problems on everyones part?
He who controls the traffic, controls the revenue.

The higher the payout and the more tours an affiliate program has, the more traffic affiliates will send them.

The more traffic affiliates send them, the more money they can make through transparent shaving, the more money they make through transparent shaving, the more marketing they can do to their affiliates.. higher payouts, more tours, more niches, etc etc and so the cycle begins anew.

Its a traffic figures game.. nothing more, nothing less :)

Thats one of the reasons when we launch our new program early next year, we're going to have 50 sites with multiple tours and payout up to $44 per sale ;)
Wrong ...

Its about the check at the end of the week.

Don't look at your stats , look at the check. [/b][/quote]
You just said the same thing i did in your last post.. i just said it in a much longer way LOL

Make your mind up dammit LOL

Lee

12-17-2004, 08:08 PM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 17 2004, 04:13 PM
LOL...hence why I edited my post...but you caught me!!

LOL
Fucking noobs ;) :P

Timon

12-17-2004, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by Lee@Dec 17 2004, 07:45 PM
To me, the most blatent form of 'acceptable' shaving are cross sells from exit consoles that affiliates dont get credit for, the programs use affiliates traffic to generate income without paying the affiliate a portion of those funds, to me, that is no different than if a sponsor 'shaved' sales directly from their program.
That depends, these signups may be calculated into the per signup payout and allow the sponsor to offer a higher payout.

I chose 80 to 100% because I have NEVER shaved myself but know that everyone else does ;-))

Top_Of_Google_Man

12-17-2004, 11:57 PM

I shave twice a day.....

But base my trust in sponsors on return per click.....

I cant control who shaves but can control who returns most per click.

Know how many clicks u send is my bottom line.....its amazing how many people dont have a clue how many hits they send and rely on sponsor stats.

Dravyk

12-18-2004, 04:12 AM

So ... what's the shave on this poll's results? :matey:

PornoDoggy

12-18-2004, 04:24 AM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 17 2004, 07:31 PM
The real fun used to be "reverse shaving" some people

ie adding in a few signups , so the guy would be all over the boards

" Holy crap man , I'm converting at 1 in 17 with blah blah blah"

;-)))
That would be a particularly dirty trick.

Why, I would be extremely offended if someone were to contact me via email or on ICQ (both available through the board, in case you forgot) in search of a reasonably articulate person looking for someone to sing their praises on such a basis for reasonable (as determined by me) compensation.

Really.

I would.

Honest. Especially if the offer wasn't reasonable (as determined by me).

Timon

12-18-2004, 04:48 AM

PD, I am confident most if not all proggies will keep your conversions artificially low ;-)

pushpills

12-18-2004, 06:17 AM

Almost all shave, I can only hope that NATS programs can't, but who knows. Other than that...no reason not to shave. You shave a percentage...so, no matter how well or how poor the persons traffic converts, you shave a percentage and they will never know. If your traffic is great and converts 1:200, and the sponsor says 1:350....who are you to say that it's bullshit.

No sponsor these days is living for 10 years....they are going for profits from the next 6 months, and HOPEFULY more....

But you'll see that change within a year.

Meat

12-18-2004, 07:39 AM

well

http://www.netpondcash.com/ dosent shave, never has and never wil.

Aside from the fact our affilate software has zero functions to shave it is something i would never do, i would rather shut netpondcash down than resort to shaving.

We have some very unique sites that do not need shaves on, they convert very well and retain very well.

Meat

12-18-2004, 07:41 AM

forgot to add we also take credit cards from pretty much every country except north korea and a higher than normal chargeback threshold that gives us some leeway:)

Timon

12-18-2004, 08:11 AM

Originally posted by Meat@Dec 18 2004, 07:40 AM
http://www.netpondcash.com/ dosent shave, never has and never wil.

Prove it! ;-)

Meat

12-18-2004, 08:42 AM

lol Timon

Contact vxbill, tell them you want to run there affilate script and tell them you want to be able to apply a shave

watch how fast they tell you to fuck off

Tell them you will run millions of dollars of biz thru there billing each week but you want to apply a shave

watch how fast they tell you to stick your millions up your ass.

I have nothing to prove, we dont do biz like that anyone that wants to try our program out and see for themselves be my guest, anyone that thinks im bullshitting then dont try the proggy lol, any one that knows me knows i would never be involved in shaving.

Timon

12-18-2004, 08:42 AM

Lennart didn't mind when I asked ;-)

Meat

12-18-2004, 08:49 AM

lol the first thing we asked when we were looking at his program was does it shave, when he said no it doesnt then we took the script, if he had said yes it does to us we would have gone elsewhere.

If you are saying that Leenart condones shaving then I will take it up with him on monday cos either you are bullshitting or he bullshitted to us.

Lee

12-18-2004, 09:16 AM

Meat,

No offence intended mate but you of all people should know whether an affiliate script has a built in shave feature or not, it is still possible to shave.

All thse guys marketing their script without a shave feature in them are doing so purely from a marketing standpoint.

If i wanted to and i used NATS and were suffieiciently motivated to do so, im pretty sure i could figure out a way of shaving affiliates, if i could figure a way out, im sure these programs with inhouse programmers and the likes could.

Nothing against NPC in any way, never used your guys program but i do like your gloryhole site :)

Timon

12-18-2004, 09:37 AM

Moi, bullshit? Nevah!!! ;-)))

Nickatilynx

12-18-2004, 10:19 AM

And Meat , well...come on!!!! LOL ;-))))

There is naive and then there is being just plain dumb!!!

If traffic is being recieved , it can be shaved.

If it sends traffic it can be "spammed."

These are "Nicks First Laws of Traffic"

;-)))

Rolo

12-18-2004, 10:23 AM

Lennart will not allow a shave - he is a good guy :-), BUT that doesn´t mean that shaving is impossible. The same with NATS - sure its good etc. but trusting it blindly is just fooling yourself. Know your stats, and use that to compare sponsors... Sponsors stats is a useful tool, but when comparing sponsor vs. sponsor use your OWN stats.

Rolo

12-18-2004, 10:26 AM

Its kinda funny comparing programs today... traffic leaks, un-trackable billing options, pop installs etc. on the increase at some sponsors, while others are going the opposite direction - and then we have the sponsors that have both in their program, where you choose what version of the tour you want to send too - ex. $40/PPS with consoles, $25/PPS without consoles... $15 difference is big, and makes you go hmmm :awinky:

Timon

12-18-2004, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by Rolo@Dec 18 2004, 10:24 AM
Lennart will not allow a shave - he is a good guy :-)

Agreed, they run a clean operation.

, BUT that doesn´t mean that shaving is impossible.

On the contrary, shaving processor hosted sponsorship programs like this one and iBill revshare for example is EXTREMELY easy!

Does anyone know how it's done? :-)

Lee

12-18-2004, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by Timon+Dec 18 2004, 07:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Timon @ Dec 18 2004, 07:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Rolo@Dec 18 2004, 10:24 AM
Lennart will not allow a shave - he is a good guy :-)

Agreed, they run a clean operation.

, BUT that doesn´t mean that shaving is impossible.

On the contrary, shaving processor hosted sponsorship programs like this one and iBill revshare for example is EXTREMELY easy!

Does anyone know how it's done? :-) [/b][/quote]
Using .php includes on the tour pages to only display the tracking code at certain times of the day ;)

Now what do i win? :groucho:

Timon

12-18-2004, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by Lee@Dec 18 2004, 10:40 AM
Using .php includes on the tour pages to only display the tracking code at certain times of the day ;)

Bingo, iBill or VXS may not short your stats but the program owner can easily show a join page that is not linked to your account some of the time ;-)

Nickatilynx

12-18-2004, 11:21 AM

Fuck I've seen an off-the-shelf affiliate solution that has 9 seperate shaving mechanisms. I know of a purpose written one that has more.

ahhhh "Insta shave"

I have seen "the insides" of at least 4 major ones ALL with shave adjust feature.

Frankly I was shocked!! Horrified!!!

Nearly bought one. ;-)))

Til someone said "Mate ,look at this..this is the shit!" ;-)))

but we use 3rd party processors, and who the fuck knows what some of them do, so the point is probably moot.

Funny you should say that....

Years ago , as a purely hypothetical mind puzzle , a group of us sat round and did the "What if we were a third party processor , how could we shave"

OK we were wasted...but it would be easy...you'd never get caught either.Even , if done right an audit wouldn't catch you. Look just like a...

Nevermind ;-)))

Cause the ULTIMATE shave would be at that level.

CuriousToyBoy

12-18-2004, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Dec 18 2004, 10:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Dec 18 2004, 10:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Rolo@Dec 17 2004, 07:44 PM
intentionally? :unsure:
do contract killers do it intentionally or just because they like to kill?
;-))) [/b][/quote]
Serge, liking it has got nothing to do with it.

They do it because they can, they don;t have to like it.

:ph34r:

Nickatilynx

12-18-2004, 11:25 AM

and CTB...

10,000 shaved to 8,000 is just unambitious!! ;-))

Shaving 101

You turn up the shave everyday a lil bit.

When they howl you say "OMFG!! thats ridiculous, let me credit you X and look into it"

You then turn the shave down 10-20%....then you slowly turn it up agaim...rinse and repeat...

There are I believe instances of people being shaved 90% and STILL thanking the program owner cause his CHECK was bigger there than at the last place!!

CuriousToyBoy

12-18-2004, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 18 2004, 10:10 AM
But they will if you shave the fuck out of them and say you'll pay $200 joins every second tuesday after lent.
Nick,

IMHO you have just nailed the biggest point.

Greedy little fucks who don't their asshole from breakfast.

To me shaving is simple, if you send me 10000 hits and 20 joins but your stats INTENTIONALLY only say you send me 8000k hits and 16 joins, THAT is shaving.

Fuck I've seen an off-the-shelf affiliate solution that has 9 seperate shaving mechanisms. I know of a purpose written one that has more.

We personally don't shave, and I'll put down $10k and even pay for the audit if they show WE do, but we use 3rd party processors, and who the fuck knows what some of them do, so the point is probably moot.

Shit we even give affiliates ALL the email addresses they gather under their revcode - members AND mail grabbers.

All we can do is try.

But we do shave our boys.

:ph34r:

Lee

12-18-2004, 11:34 AM

I forget who it was.. Audited Sponsor perhaps? That used to track affiliate programs traffic and signups?

They closed down after around a month or two if memory serves me correctly.

CuriousToyBoy

12-18-2004, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by Lee@Dec 19 2004, 02:35 AM
I forget who it was.. Audited Sponsor perhaps? That used to track affiliate programs traffic and signups?

They closed down after around a month or two if memory serves me correctly.
Bought out and then shut down a little birdie tells me....

:ph34r:

Timon

12-18-2004, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by CuriousToyBoy@Dec 18 2004, 11:32 AM
To me shaving is simple, if you send me 10000 hits and 20 joins but your stats INTENTIONALLY only say you send me 8000k hits and 16 joins, THAT is shaving.
Unforgivable.... bad.... very bad..... mmmkay? ;-))

Nickatilynx

12-18-2004, 12:30 PM

CTB,

I admire your principles. Could you sell me some? ;-))))

I made fortunes with and for Serge and Scotty.

Did they shave me?

FUCK YEAH!!!

Hard and often!!! How do I know? They fucking gloat to me over it!!! LOL

But there checks were bigger than anyone elses.

So what does that say?

;-))

Vick

12-18-2004, 12:32 PM

Psss ....
How many time do I have to tell you ALL PROGRAMS SHAVE!!

CBT - Not picking on you but will use you as an example
You use CCBill to process, you have an unintentional shave
CCBill uses a cookie based tracking system, approximately 10% (or less) of surfers have their cookies turned off

There's your unintentional shave

Vick

12-18-2004, 12:34 PM

Obviously the business is built on smoke and mirrors

Yeah we pay $45 per join (so you get the most traffic) but factor in the shave to make the difference

Take it back to the day of .02 clicks, then someone offered .03 per click. Then .05. Xpics with .30 Sundays. Got to keep your profit margins in line.

Check at the end of the week and how much you earn per click

Nickatilynx

12-18-2004, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by CuriousToyBoy+Dec 18 2004, 10:13 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CuriousToyBoy @ Dec 18 2004, 10:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Vick@Dec 19 2004, 03:33 AM
Psss ....
How many time do I have to tell you ALL PROGRAMS SHAVE!!

CBT - Not picking on you but will use you as an example
You use CCBill to process, you have an unintentional shave
CCBill uses a cookie based tracking system, approximately 10% (or less) of surfers have their cookies turned off

There's your unintentional shave
Vic, if you read my post I already said that was our weakness.

:ph34r: [/b][/quote]
Ok...so you are at 10%

wonder what other holes there are....

Unintentionally shaved , over 1,000 joins.....

I seem to remember between 150 and 300 joins were untracked.

hmmmmm....

An honest program surely would give out a bonus apportioned amongst its webmasters in proportion to the joins they sent tracked , for the 150 -300 Surplus untracked joins.

CuriousToyBoy

12-18-2004, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 19 2004, 02:26 AM
and CTB...

10,000 shaved to 8,000 is just unambitious!! ;-))

Shaving 101

You turn up the shave everyday a lil bit.

When they howl you say "OMFG!! thats ridiculous, let me credit you X and look into it"

You then turn the shave down 10-20%....then you slowly turn it up agaim...rinse and repeat...

There are I believe instances of people being shaved 90% and STILL thanking the program owner cause his CHECK was bigger there than at the last place!!
I'm not unambitious, and I DO know all about it, I just fucking hate it. It's wrong,

But if someone is stupid enough to send traffic to something where anyone with half a clue KNOWS the numbers are just unsupportable, well, that is the CRUX of the problem.

Funny you give the example of the dickhead webmaster - it's not just the small ones...

I remember a mutual friend telling me the story of once a long time ago when a certain webmaster sending him traffic got 1000 joins in a week and was so stoked he flew them overseas for a 3 day bender of wine, women and song to thank them.

The question was posed as to what that webmaster would have done for them if he wasn't being shaved at 80% when he got the 1000.

Would ge a fucking hilarious story if it wasn't true.

Every industry evolves, and this one has grown up a shitload in the 5 years I have been dancing around, but it has a long way to go. Or not. Depends on your viewpoint I suppose.

I am not greedy and I just try and be the type of sponsor I wish I had when I was pushing shit uphill.

And I won't shave ANYONE knowingly.....

On the processors, some are more obvious than others in how they do it, not only is that level the "best" as you call it, it is the EASIEST. By far.

I a man of few principles and fewer morals, but those that I do have do NOT get bent.

And my original offer is a standing one.

:ph34r:

CuriousToyBoy

12-18-2004, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by Vick@Dec 19 2004, 03:33 AM
Psss ....
How many time do I have to tell you ALL PROGRAMS SHAVE!!

CBT - Not picking on you but will use you as an example
You use CCBill to process, you have an unintentional shave
CCBill uses a cookie based tracking system, approximately 10% (or less) of surfers have their cookies turned off

There's your unintentional shave
Vic, if you read my post I already said that was our weakness.

:ph34r:

CuriousToyBoy

12-18-2004, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 19 2004, 03:31 AM
CTB,

I admire your principles. Could you sell me some? ;-))))

I made fortunes with and for Serge and Scotty.

Did they shave me?

FUCK YEAH!!!

Hard and often!!! How do I know? They fucking gloat to me over it!!! LOL

But there checks were bigger than anyone elses.

So what does that say?

;-))
Don't be so certain that you don;t have more principles than me Nick. Being a nice guy is a relatively recent status quo in terms of my 37 years on the planet.

Evil is as evil does - and another pet hate is people who use that line who, face-to-face, haven't got a real evil bone in their body !!

Anyhoo, I digress.

What other real options did you have way back when?

I should say, I don't begrudge any of the old school ANYTHING - In fact, I admire the guts and hard work it took to grab the opportunities with both hands and shake the shit out of it.

Pioneers in ANY industry have the luxury, nay, the RIGHT, to do things the way they want to, irrespective of whether that be good, bad or indifferent.

Those who have the cajones to do the hardest yards in the early days have the God given right to do things the way they see fit, and more power to them for that.

How many of us would be here if it wasn't for the work put in developing this industry by the likes of Scotty, Serge, yourself and others back in those days? I never forget that.

The point I make, and to steal a line oft stated by Serge, it is not 1999 anymore.

Times change and every business evolves.

And as I have said above, all we can do is TRY to make things different or better, again depending on your perspective.

:ph34r:

CuriousToyBoy

12-18-2004, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Dec 19 2004, 03:41 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Dec 19 2004, 03:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by CuriousToyBoy@Dec 18 2004, 10:13 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Vick@Dec 19 2004, 03:33 AM
Psss ....
How many time do I have to tell you ALL PROGRAMS SHAVE!!

CBT - Not picking on you but will use you as an example
You use CCBill to process, you have an unintentional shave
CCBill uses a cookie based tracking system, approximately 10% (or less) of surfers have their cookies turned off

There's your unintentional shave
Vic, if you read my post I already said that was our weakness.

:ph34r:
Ok...so you are at 10%

wonder what other holes there are....

Unintentionally shaved , over 1,000 joins.....

I seem to remember between 150 and 300 joins were untracked.

hmmmmm....

An honest program surely would give out a bonus apportioned amongst its webmasters in proportion to the joins they sent tracked , for the 150 -300 Surplus untracked joins. [/b][/quote]
I have said this above...

WE don't shave.

We also CANNOT control things out of our control.

We are trying to implement systems and practices to lessen the impacts of the very things you describe.

This is a nowhere argument, because I do NOT have control over the entire food chain, and I have said that above at least twice.

Bonuses is a good idea. I am going to do some math on that. Could be quite a differentiating feature for a program.

Like I said, we give a shitload more than 99% of programs, and are ALWAYS trying to improve that lot by adding new features and doing things differently.

Again, repetitive, but it is the whack - all we can do is try our best.

I know I'm as honest as can be now, because there was a time (for a long time) before this business, when I was not, so it is easy to compare and contrast.

:ph34r:

Timon

12-18-2004, 10:45 PM

This discussion is BS ;-)

A good businessman cares about only one thing and that is the bottom line.

If a sponsor program paying $35 on $1 signups and credits for exit consoles shaves 30% you will still make more money than with a program that pays $35 on $29.95 memberships with no trial and no exits.

Some sites also convert much better than others, a shaving sponsor with great sites might earn you more than a goody two shoes sponsor who doesn't understand how to close the sale.

At the end of the day who shaves or who doesn't and if it's wrong or not is totally irrelevant, the only relevant thing is the size of the check you get for a certain banner slot.

Greedy business, not whiney bitches! ;-))

Dravyk

12-19-2004, 12:36 AM

Anything can be shaved -- even something "shave-proof" -- IF someone REALLY wants to shave.

Almost anything can be cheated as well.

Nickatilynx

12-19-2004, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by Dravyk@Dec 18 2004, 09:37 PM
Anything can be shaved -- even something "shave-proof" -- IF someone REALLY wants to shave.

Almost anything can be cheated as well.
Thank you.
See "Nicks First Laws of Traffic" above ;-)))

Nickatilynx

12-19-2004, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by gonzo@Dec 19 2004, 01:42 PM
Of course you can just run a program wand refuse to pay people for cheating and spend your time scouring your incoming traffic for any infraction and refuse to pay.
thats always a good one :)

gonzo

12-19-2004, 04:41 PM

Of course you can just run a program wand refuse to pay people for cheating and spend your time scouring your incoming traffic for any infraction and refuse to pay.

Nickatilynx

12-19-2004, 10:30 PM

You keep taking the traffic...

you just don't pay

;-)))

Timon

12-19-2004, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Dec 19 2004, 04:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Dec 19 2004, 04:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-gonzo@Dec 19 2004, 01:42 PM
Of course you can just run a program wand refuse to pay people for cheating and spend your time scouring your incoming traffic for any infraction and refuse to pay.
thats always a good one :) [/b][/quote]
Not really, it makes no sense to remove productive webmasters from a program.

But if you run a PPC program, which nobody does anymore, and do not scour your incoming traffic and eliminate webmasters who use invalid links or open you in a new window or throw an exit console onto your homepage you end end up paying for traffic that does not convert into signups.

Timon

12-19-2004, 11:25 PM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 19 2004, 10:31 PM
You keep taking the traffic...

you just don't pay

;-)))
yeah that one worked for a while...

of course I have NEVER done anything like that!! ;-))

CuriousToyBoy

12-20-2004, 06:04 AM

Originally posted by Dravyk@Dec 19 2004, 03:37 PM
Anything can be shaved -- even something "shave-proof" -- IF someone REALLY wants to shave.

Almost anything can be cheated as well.
The ability to do something, the motivation and/or inclination do do it, and the actual perpetration of it are three VERY different things.

:ph34r:

Meat

12-20-2004, 06:21 AM

Nick

i might be naive and i might be dumb, but we dont shave and we never will, even if we could we wouldnt.

We have people sending traffic to netpondcash converting at better than 1:50 so if we were gonna shave, those numbers wouldnt exist.

Winetalk.com

12-20-2004, 08:16 AM

Originally posted by Meat@Dec 20 2004, 06:22 AM
Nick

i might be naive and i might be dumb, but we dont shave and we never will, even if we could we wouldnt.

We have people sending traffic to netpondcash converting at better than 1:50 so if we were gonna shave, those numbers wouldnt exist.
Meat,
I didn't know numbers 1:50 still exist....
are you sure it's not 1:5000...after shave?
;-))))

Meat

12-20-2004, 08:44 AM

LOL Serge:)

Rolo

12-20-2004, 09:03 AM

Meat congrats on having affiliates that do filter/target their traffic - probably means you have less support per affiliate, than the programs that attracts the masses ;-)))

Nickatilynx

12-20-2004, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by Meat@Dec 20 2004, 03:22 AM
Nick

i might be naive and i might be dumb, but we dont shave and we never will, even if we could we wouldnt.

We have people sending traffic to netpondcash converting at better than 1:50 so if we were gonna shave, those numbers wouldnt exist.
maybe Aga just isn't telling you!!!

;-)))

:ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r:

Nickatilynx

12-20-2004, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by Dravyk+Dec 20 2004, 11:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dravyk @ Dec 20 2004, 11:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by CuriousToyBoy@Dec 20 2004, 06:05 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Dravyk@Dec 19 2004, 03:37 PM
Anything can be shaved -- even something "shave-proof" -- IF someone REALLY wants to shave.

Almost anything can be cheated as well.
The ability to do something, the motivation and/or inclination do do it, and the actual perpetration of it are three VERY different things.

:ph34r:
Where there's a will, there's a way. B) [/b][/quote]
Where there is a WILL , there is an inheritance !

;-))

Meat

12-20-2004, 02:02 PM

Aga tells me everything:)

Dravyk

12-20-2004, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by CuriousToyBoy+Dec 20 2004, 06:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CuriousToyBoy @ Dec 20 2004, 06:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Dravyk@Dec 19 2004, 03:37 PM
Anything can be shaved -- even something "shave-proof" -- IF someone REALLY wants to shave.

Almost anything can be cheated as well.
The ability to do something, the motivation and/or inclination do do it, and the actual perpetration of it are three VERY different things.

:ph34r:[/b][/quote]
Where there's a will, there's a way. B)

*KK*

12-20-2004, 04:02 PM

EVERY program has at least an unintentional shave. The fact that its the internet is the cause of that. Surfers without cookies on, data that gets dropped in transmission, glitches in stats and so forth. There's simply no way around it.

One post that totally blows me away in this thread was the one that referred to upsells, cross sells and the like giving some sort of additional compensation to the original referrer.

HELLO? Put the crack pipe down. If the original referrer is supposed to continue getting paid out down the line then the ONLY people that should be getting checks are the owners of search engines, link lists and tgps, since that's where the traffic originates. However, I don't see Tommy's Bookmarks or Persian Kitty or even Google sticking their hand out after the fact to collect more money off a signup...

grimm

12-20-2004, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by Timon+Dec 18 2004, 08:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Timon @ Dec 18 2004, 08:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-CuriousToyBoy@Dec 18 2004, 11:32 AM
To me shaving is simple, if you send me 10000 hits and 20 joins but your stats INTENTIONALLY only say you send me 8000k hits and 16 joins, THAT is shaving.
Unforgivable.... bad.... very bad..... mmmkay? ;-)) [/b][/quote]
8000k

thats 8,000,000. and only 16 joins? man your traffic sucks:)

Vick

12-20-2004, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Dec 20 2004, 01:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Dec 20 2004, 01:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Dravyk@Dec 20 2004, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by CuriousToyBoy@Dec 20 2004, 06:05 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Dravyk@Dec 19 2004, 03:37 PM
Anything can be shaved -- even something "shave-proof" -- IF someone REALLY wants to shave.

Almost anything can be cheated as well.
The ability to do something, the motivation and/or inclination do do it, and the actual perpetration of it are three VERY different things.

:ph34r:
Where there's a will, there's a way. B)
Where there is a WILL , there is an inheritance !

;-)) [/b][/quote]
Where there's a whip, there's a way

SykkBoy

12-20-2004, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by *KK*@Dec 20 2004, 04:03 PM
EVERY program has at least an unintentional shave. The fact that its the internet is the cause of that. Surfers without cookies on, data that gets dropped in transmission, glitches in stats and so forth. There's simply no way around it.

One post that totally blows me away in this thread was the one that referred to upsells, cross sells and the like giving some sort of additional compensation to the original referrer.

HELLO? Put the crack pipe down. If the original referrer is supposed to continue getting paid out down the line then the ONLY people that should be getting checks are the owners of search engines, link lists and tgps, since that's where the traffic originates. However, I don't see Tommy's Bookmarks or Persian Kitty or even Google sticking their hand out after the fact to collect more money off a signup...
hahaha, I remember making that argument to a newbie a couple years ago...they bitched about not being paid on upsells, etc. and I explained I would be more than happy to pay them a % on those if they would be so kind as to pay a % to the hun, tommy and greenguy, where they got their traffic from...for some reason, they didn't seem to like that idea....

another "unintenional shave" isn't so much a shave as a sale being credited to someone else: if you send a surfer to a site that he's already visited and he signs up, his signup cookie would still be credited to the original sender and even though he came from your site, he would be credited to another affiliate.

Nickatilynx

12-20-2004, 05:51 PM

Call me a cynic..

but..

I'd be more inclined to send traffic to the guy that says :

"Mate , you know I have to shave you , but your wire will be bigger than anyone else will send you and it'll be on time."

Then the guy that says

"I swear , I really really will not shave you at all , in anyway"

I think the first method works on those 5 -10 good webmasters you want.
I think the second method works on the 2000 sheep.

but thats just mho

And remember the only time I think I am not being shaved is when I send my own traffic to my own paysites and even then I'm not sure , cause I'm so crooked I might be shaving myself!!!

;-)))

I also fucking look at processors shifty eyed.

They must be able to shave too.....

TheEnforcer

12-20-2004, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by SykkBoy+Dec 20 2004, 04:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SykkBoy @ Dec 20 2004, 04:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-*KK*@Dec 20 2004, 04:03 PM
EVERY program has at least an unintentional shave. The fact that its the internet is the cause of that. Surfers without cookies on, data that gets dropped in transmission, glitches in stats and so forth. There's simply no way around it.

One post that totally blows me away in this thread was the one that referred to upsells, cross sells and the like giving some sort of additional compensation to the original referrer.

HELLO? Put the crack pipe down. If the original referrer is supposed to continue getting paid out down the line then the ONLY people that should be getting checks are the owners of search engines, link lists and tgps, since that's where the traffic originates. However, I don't see Tommy's Bookmarks or Persian Kitty or even Google sticking their hand out after the fact to collect more money off a signup...
hahaha, I remember making that argument to a newbie a couple years ago...they bitched about not being paid on upsells, etc. and I explained I would be more than happy to pay them a % on those if they would be so kind as to pay a % to the hun, tommy and greenguy, where they got their traffic from...for some reason, they didn't seem to like that idea....

another "unintenional shave" isn't so much a shave as a sale being credited to someone else: if you send a surfer to a site that he's already visited and he signs up, his signup cookie would still be credited to the original sender and even though he came from your site, he would be credited to another affiliate. [/b][/quote]
Isn't a discussion about shaving your nutsack more your thing? :P

Nickatilynx

12-20-2004, 06:06 PM

Originally posted by slavdogg+Dec 20 2004, 03:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (slavdogg @ Dec 20 2004, 03:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Dec 20 2004, 08:17 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Meat@Dec 20 2004, 06:22 AM
Nick

i might be naive and i might be dumb, but we dont shave and we never will, even if we could we wouldnt.

We have people sending traffic to netpondcash converting at better than 1:50 so if we were gonna shave, those numbers wouldnt exist.
Meat,
I didn't know numbers 1:50 still exist....
are you sure it's not 1:5000...after shave?
;-))))
our ratio at netpondcash
1:169 uniques
= 1:203 raw

this is on montly memberships, no trials [/b][/quote]
Even I gotta say , they have some very good sites , that I would imagine convert very very well.

Lee

12-20-2004, 06:11 PM

Originally posted by TheEnforcer+Dec 20 2004, 03:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TheEnforcer @ Dec 20 2004, 03:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by SykkBoy@Dec 20 2004, 04:46 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-*KK*@Dec 20 2004, 04:03 PM
EVERY program has at least an unintentional shave. The fact that its the internet is the cause of that. Surfers without cookies on, data that gets dropped in transmission, glitches in stats and so forth. There's simply no way around it.

One post that totally blows me away in this thread was the one that referred to upsells, cross sells and the like giving some sort of additional compensation to the original referrer.

HELLO? Put the crack pipe down. If the original referrer is supposed to continue getting paid out down the line then the ONLY people that should be getting checks are the owners of search engines, link lists and tgps, since that's where the traffic originates. However, I don't see Tommy's Bookmarks or Persian Kitty or even Google sticking their hand out after the fact to collect more money off a signup...
hahaha, I remember making that argument to a newbie a couple years ago...they bitched about not being paid on upsells, etc. and I explained I would be more than happy to pay them a % on those if they would be so kind as to pay a % to the hun, tommy and greenguy, where they got their traffic from...for some reason, they didn't seem to like that idea....

another "unintenional shave" isn't so much a shave as a sale being credited to someone else: if you send a surfer to a site that he's already visited and he signs up, his signup cookie would still be credited to the original sender and even though he came from your site, he would be credited to another affiliate.
Isn't a discussion about shaving your nutsack more your thing? :P [/b][/quote]
Thats pretty much your typical GFY response on the topic too ;)

TheEnforcer

12-20-2004, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by Lee+Dec 20 2004, 06:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Lee @ Dec 20 2004, 06:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by TheEnforcer@Dec 20 2004, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Dec 20 2004, 04:46 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-*KK*@Dec 20 2004, 04:03 PM
EVERY program has at least an unintentional shave. The fact that its the internet is the cause of that. Surfers without cookies on, data that gets dropped in transmission, glitches in stats and so forth. There's simply no way around it.

One post that totally blows me away in this thread was the one that referred to upsells, cross sells and the like giving some sort of additional compensation to the original referrer.

HELLO? Put the crack pipe down. If the original referrer is supposed to continue getting paid out down the line then the ONLY people that should be getting checks are the owners of search engines, link lists and tgps, since that's where the traffic originates. However, I don't see Tommy's Bookmarks or Persian Kitty or even Google sticking their hand out after the fact to collect more money off a signup...
hahaha, I remember making that argument to a newbie a couple years ago...they bitched about not being paid on upsells, etc. and I explained I would be more than happy to pay them a % on those if they would be so kind as to pay a % to the hun, tommy and greenguy, where they got their traffic from...for some reason, they didn't seem to like that idea....

another "unintenional shave" isn't so much a shave as a sale being credited to someone else: if you send a surfer to a site that he's already visited and he signs up, his signup cookie would still be credited to the original sender and even though he came from your site, he would be credited to another affiliate.
Isn't a discussion about shaving your nutsack more your thing? :P
Thats pretty much your typical GFY response on the topic too ;) [/b][/quote]
Hahaha!! I love giving Sykk shit!! :P

Nickatilynx

12-20-2004, 06:31 PM

There no homophobes on this board!!

Well except , Lee.

;-)))

CuriousToyBoy

12-20-2004, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by Dravyk+Dec 21 2004, 05:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dravyk @ Dec 21 2004, 05:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by CuriousToyBoy@Dec 20 2004, 06:05 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Dravyk@Dec 19 2004, 03:37 PM
Anything can be shaved -- even something "shave-proof" -- IF someone REALLY wants to shave.

Almost anything can be cheated as well.
The ability to do something, the motivation and/or inclination do do it, and the actual perpetration of it are three VERY different things.

:ph34r:
Where there's a will, there's a way. B) [/b][/quote]
Drav,

I agree 150%. ANYTHING can be cheated.

My point is just because you can you can choose not too.

My analogy of the day.

I can buy a gun. That is the means.

I can shoot a gun. That is the ability.

I can shoot you, or I can not. That is the choice.

My, and Meat's point I expect, is that we make the choice not to.

But what the fuck would I know, I only convert at 1: 500000, just ask Grimm :P

:ph34r:

slavdogg

12-20-2004, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Dec 20 2004, 08:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Dec 20 2004, 08:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Meat@Dec 20 2004, 06:22 AM
Nick

i might be naive and i might be dumb, but we dont shave and we never will, even if we could we wouldnt.

We have people sending traffic to netpondcash converting at better than 1:50 so if we were gonna shave, those numbers wouldnt exist.
Meat,
I didn't know numbers 1:50 still exist....
are you sure it's not 1:5000...after shave?
;-)))) [/b][/quote]
our ratio at netpondcash
1:169 uniques
= 1:203 raw

this is on montly memberships, no trials

SykkBoy

12-20-2004, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by TheEnforcer+Dec 20 2004, 06:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TheEnforcer @ Dec 20 2004, 06:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by SykkBoy@Dec 20 2004, 04:46 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-*KK*@Dec 20 2004, 04:03 PM
EVERY program has at least an unintentional shave. The fact that its the internet is the cause of that. Surfers without cookies on, data that gets dropped in transmission, glitches in stats and so forth. There's simply no way around it.

One post that totally blows me away in this thread was the one that referred to upsells, cross sells and the like giving some sort of additional compensation to the original referrer.

HELLO? Put the crack pipe down. If the original referrer is supposed to continue getting paid out down the line then the ONLY people that should be getting checks are the owners of search engines, link lists and tgps, since that's where the traffic originates. However, I don't see Tommy's Bookmarks or Persian Kitty or even Google sticking their hand out after the fact to collect more money off a signup...
hahaha, I remember making that argument to a newbie a couple years ago...they bitched about not being paid on upsells, etc. and I explained I would be more than happy to pay them a % on those if they would be so kind as to pay a % to the hun, tommy and greenguy, where they got their traffic from...for some reason, they didn't seem to like that idea....

another "unintenional shave" isn't so much a shave as a sale being credited to someone else: if you send a surfer to a site that he's already visited and he signs up, his signup cookie would still be credited to the original sender and even though he came from your site, he would be credited to another affiliate.
Isn't a discussion about shaving your nutsack more your thing? :P [/b][/quote]
that's another board entirely ;-)

Nickatilynx

12-20-2004, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by Vick@Dec 20 2004, 04:43 PM
webhamsters
ahahahahaha GREAT WORD!!!

ahahahahahahahaha

Lee

12-20-2004, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 20 2004, 02:52 PM
I also fucking look at processors shifty eyed.

They must be able to shave too.....
You know..

Thats something that we were thinking about several months ago.

Unfortunately, we work in the only business where it is pretty damn near impossible not to rely on any third party. Whether that be content providers, photographers, designers, hosts, processors, other webmasters etc etc.

Somewhere along the line, someone is going to be stitching you up *somewhere* its a law of nature.

As for the processors, it would be SO easy for them to shave its unreal, a sale here, a sale there and, to some extent, thy actually do shave openly..

Just look at this for ne real easy method..

https://shopping.ccbill.com/search.cgi

Wouldnt take much of anything to shave based on that system.

CuriousToyBoy

12-20-2004, 07:17 PM

Isn't a discussion about shaving your nutsack more your thing? :P

that's another board entirely ;-)

I have already openly admitted we do intentionally shave....

Our boys.

Need to reinforce that here again just to get a rise out of the homophobes.

He he.

:ph34r:

Nickatilynx

12-20-2004, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by slavdogg@Dec 20 2004, 05:15 PM
bottom line revshare programs dont make webmasters more money than PPS
If in rare cases where they do, it takes 5-8+ months to see the results.
and you can take that to the bank :okthumb:

Sykk, if you want me to send you some traffic still waiting on your reply
revshare????

I'd rather have the money now thanks rather than gamble on , amonst other things , the processor not taking a shit , 3 mths in.

Vick

12-20-2004, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by CuriousToyBoy+Dec 18 2004, 08:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CuriousToyBoy @ Dec 18 2004, 08:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 19 2004, 03:41 AM
Originally posted by CuriousToyBoy@Dec 18 2004, 10:13 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Vick@Dec 19 2004, 03:33 AM
Psss ....
How many time do I have to tell you ALL PROGRAMS SHAVE!!

CBT - Not picking on you but will use you as an example
You use CCBill to process, you have an unintentional shave
CCBill uses a cookie based tracking system, approximately 10% (or less) of surfers have their cookies turned off

There's your unintentional shave
Vic, if you read my post I already said that was our weakness.

:ph34r:
Ok...so you are at 10%

wonder what other holes there are....

Unintentionally shaved , over 1,000 joins.....

I seem to remember between 150 and 300 joins were untracked.

hmmmmm....

An honest program surely would give out a bonus apportioned amongst its webmasters in proportion to the joins they sent tracked , for the 150 -300 Surplus untracked joins.
I have said this above...

WE don't shave.

[/b][/quote]
The bottom line is - webhamsters in your program are shaved!!!
see my explanation above
unintentionally it may be but the fact remains it's happening

that's not to say you are shady or have a bad proggy
Just trying to get you to open your eyes and admit what goes on

If you want to have something to beat your chest about to webhamsters do like I do and pay 60%
Pay more than the other guy because you know there is a shave that you don't control

Lee

12-20-2004, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 20 2004, 03:32 PM
Well except , Lee.
You know, there actually is some truth to that but, thats another story :)

SykkBoy

12-20-2004, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by Vick+Dec 20 2004, 07:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vick @ Dec 20 2004, 07:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by CuriousToyBoy@Dec 18 2004, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 19 2004, 03:41 AM
Originally posted by CuriousToyBoy@Dec 18 2004, 10:13 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Vick@Dec 19 2004, 03:33 AM
Psss ....
How many time do I have to tell you ALL PROGRAMS SHAVE!!

CBT - Not picking on you but will use you as an example
You use CCBill to process, you have an unintentional shave
CCBill uses a cookie based tracking system, approximately 10% (or less) of surfers have their cookies turned off

There's your unintentional shave
Vic, if you read my post I already said that was our weakness.

:ph34r:
Ok...so you are at 10%

wonder what other holes there are....

Unintentionally shaved , over 1,000 joins.....

I seem to remember between 150 and 300 joins were untracked.

hmmmmm....

An honest program surely would give out a bonus apportioned amongst its webmasters in proportion to the joins they sent tracked , for the 150 -300 Surplus untracked joins.
I have said this above...

WE don't shave.

The bottom line is - webhamsters in your program are shaved!!!
see my explanation above
unintentionally it may be but the fact remains it's happening

that's not to say you are shady or have a bad proggy
Just trying to get you to open your eyes and admit what goes on

If you want to have something to beat your chest about to webhamsters do like I do and pay 60%
Pay more than the other guy because you know there is a shave that you don't control [/b][/quote]
or us
we pay 60% and eat the processing fees

CuriousToyBoy

12-20-2004, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by Vick+Dec 21 2004, 10:43 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vick @ Dec 21 2004, 10:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by CuriousToyBoy@Dec 18 2004, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 19 2004, 03:41 AM
Originally posted by CuriousToyBoy@Dec 18 2004, 10:13 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Vick@Dec 19 2004, 03:33 AM
Psss ....
How many time do I have to tell you ALL PROGRAMS SHAVE!!

CBT - Not picking on you but will use you as an example
You use CCBill to process, you have an unintentional shave
CCBill uses a cookie based tracking system, approximately 10% (or less) of surfers have their cookies turned off

There's your unintentional shave
Vic, if you read my post I already said that was our weakness.

:ph34r:
Ok...so you are at 10%

wonder what other holes there are....

Unintentionally shaved , over 1,000 joins.....

I seem to remember between 150 and 300 joins were untracked.

hmmmmm....

An honest program surely would give out a bonus apportioned amongst its webmasters in proportion to the joins they sent tracked , for the 150 -300 Surplus untracked joins.
I have said this above...

WE don't shave.

The bottom line is - webhamsters in your program are shaved!!!
see my explanation above
unintentionally it may be but the fact remains it's happening

that's not to say you are shady or have a bad proggy
Just trying to get you to open your eyes and admit what goes on

If you want to have something to beat your chest about to webhamsters do like I do and pay 60%
Pay more than the other guy because you know there is a shave that you don't control [/b][/quote]
If you actually read my later post Vick, you will see I understood and accepted what you said !

And it gave me an idea I am actually doing the math on as we speak ... quick off the mark you were.

And we pay up to 75% revshare for volume, so the more you send the more this is accounted for.

The only thing I am "beating my chest" about is the INTENTIONAL shaving aspect.

Do I have to say that again, ot haven't you got it yet?

:ph34r:

slavdogg

12-20-2004, 08:14 PM

bottom line revshare programs dont make webmasters more money than PPS
If in rare cases where they do, it takes 5-8+ months to see the results.
and you can take that to the bank :okthumb:

Sykk, if you want me to send you some traffic still waiting on your reply

Nickatilynx

12-20-2004, 08:36 PM

Fuck you Harry!!!

5000 hours of phonecalls (conservatively)
Days in each others company( ok , some of us may have been worse for wear. ie meat asleep on the stairs;-))

And you still don't get it ???!!!!????

Some other poor bastard try and explain it to him.

I'm off to play low stake Omaha Hi/low (the game fascinates me)

:)

Dravyk

12-20-2004, 09:14 PM

Rolo, I never said one has to shave, just that those who want to, can -- even in a so-called "no shave" system.

Matter of fact, if I wanted to have a program that shaved, there is no way I'd have an in-house stats system! The very best way to "demonstrate" how "clean and honest" the program would be is to use some third-party processor or program that 99% of the webhamsters think is unshavable and then find a way to do it!!

Slav, Nick, everyone of you traffic guys (ditto Greenie, others) swear by PPS over revshare every time. Never has made sense to me; still doesn't. We all know sponsor PPS is not set up to be advantageous to the affiliate; it's where the sponsor makes the money. So, if you really think otherwise, post the numbers. :)

Vick

12-20-2004, 10:11 PM

CBT - I understand, really
Just poking ya
You don't shave but your program does (due to the circumstances). Semantics?

so as I've stated for years all programs shave

and Cloud 9 Cash http://www.cloud9cash.com also pays all processing fees like Evil Genius

and Cloud 9 Cash has paid 80% for special promotions to all our webham ... er webmasters

It's been said here many times - what matters is the check and the amount per click earned

and even though I operate a Revshare most affiliates want PPS and it most cases can make more with PPS
even though I can post all day about the advantages of Cloud 9 Cash
Now how's that?
A Revshare program owner publicly stating you most likely will earn more with PPS

We all know to make sure the program/company will be there at the end of the month and the checks will be good

Hell Puppy

12-20-2004, 11:31 PM

The problem is the whole economic system is fucked as are the expectations of webmasters. At the current price points, retention is tough. Upsells and cross sells are getting tougher every day. Meanwhile, webmasters still expect at least $30-35 PPS.

And try to convince the beer money webmasters that an advertised $35 PPS wont necessarily make more than a program offering $25 PPS. They are mathematically impaired.

It's interesting to see that NATS is having so much success with a marketing program that basically says "our software cant shave". It's working to some degree as webmasters do seek out programs running NATS. If it truly cant shave, I'll be interested to see what this does to price points and terms.

gonzo

12-20-2004, 11:32 PM

SykkBoy

12-20-2004, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by slavdogg@Dec 20 2004, 08:15 PM
bottom line revshare programs dont make webmasters more money than PPS
If in rare cases where they do, it takes 5-8+ months to see the results.
and you can take that to the bank :okthumb:

Sykk, if you want me to send you some traffic still waiting on your reply
we're still testing the new price points and $15/15 days option

Nickatilynx

12-21-2004, 12:56 AM

Good post , Slav.

We do need a "highlights" section.

Anyone wanna volenteer to rin it?

:)

And Harry I can shave the shit out of you if you send me traffic on a third party run revshare.

slavdogg

12-21-2004, 01:09 AM

Originally posted by Dravyk@Dec 20 2004, 09:15 PM
Slav, Nick, everyone of you traffic guys (ditto Greenie, others) swear by PPS over revshare every time. Never has made sense to me; still doesn't. We all know sponsor PPS is not set up to be advantageous to the affiliate; it's where the sponsor makes the money. So, if you really think otherwise, post the numbers. :)
#1. Did u see the #s lightspeed webmasters are earning each month ?
it was posted on GFY many times.

#2. How many affiliates got RICH sending traffic to revshare paysites ??
NONE. I can name at least one affiliate that got rich off PPS > Nick :D

#3 Scott's Law - higher volumes on lower margins will make u RICH

#4 Serge's Law - high margins, low volume, means u'r still sucking dick :agrin:

Anthony

12-21-2004, 01:25 AM

Originally posted by slavdogg+Dec 20 2004, 10:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (slavdogg @ Dec 20 2004, 10:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Dravyk@Dec 20 2004, 09:15 PM
Slav, Nick, everyone of you traffic guys (ditto Greenie, others) swear by PPS over revshare every time. Never has made sense to me; still doesn't. We all know sponsor PPS is not set up to be advantageous to the affiliate; it's where the sponsor makes the money. So, if you really think otherwise, post the numbers. :)
#1. Did u see the #s lightspeed webmasters are earning each month ?
it was posted on GFY many times.

#2. How many affiliates got RICH sending traffic to revshare paysites ??
NONE. I can name at least one affiliate that got rich off PPS > Nick :D

#3 Scott's Law - higher volumes on lower margins will make u RICH

#4 Serge's Law - high margins, low volume, means u'r still sucking dick :agrin: [/b][/quote]
Probably one of the best posts in this thread.

CuriousToyBoy

12-21-2004, 01:30 AM

Originally posted by Vick@Dec 21 2004, 01:12 PM
CBT - I understand, really
Just poking ya
You don't shave but your program does (due to the circumstances). Semantics?

A Revshare program owner publicly stating you most likely will earn more with PPS

We all know to make sure the program/company will be there at the end of the month and the checks will be good
He he.

I ALWAYS bite on the right bait Vick.

:headwall:

The semantics is acceptable, but you have given me some food for thought.

:salute:

Because our sites do NOT trial, and our conversion and retentionare just as good as most trial programs, http://www.curiouscash.com/index.php?rev=gaymoneymachine (http://www.curiouscash.com) ALWAYS performs heaps better on revshare.

100% exclusive and original content that we shoot ourselves from our now 250+ (and growing) fresh model base has the queens climbing over each other to throw their cash at us.

So I agree, Revshare on a program that has 3 things:
- Exclusive and original, fresh content
- Weekly updates
- Gives the punter on the inside what is promise don the outside
Should always well and truly trump PPJ.

The origin of Curious Cash was http://www.boymodelsaustralia.com in early 1999.

We ain't going anywhere.

And we won't be intentionally shaving anytime either, but we DO pay up to 75% revshare based on volume as follows:
Joins* You Get Paid
0-49 50%
50-99 55%
100-199 60%
200-399 65%
400-599 70%
600+ 75%

:ph34r:

Timon

12-21-2004, 01:31 AM

http://agilemobile.com/ibill.GIF

Here's what one day of TGP traffic does on an average paysite.

The table shows the results for 838 signups.

#0 is how many people did not convert
#1 is how many people were rebilled once
#2 is how many people were rebilled twice, etc.

I think it's better to get your money upfront, not a year down the line ;-)

CuriousToyBoy

12-21-2004, 01:36 AM

Originally posted by Anthony+Dec 21 2004, 04:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Anthony @ Dec 21 2004, 04:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by slavdogg@Dec 20 2004, 10:10 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Dravyk@Dec 20 2004, 09:15 PM
Slav, Nick, everyone of you traffic guys (ditto Greenie, others) swear by PPS over revshare every time. Never has made sense to me; still doesn't. We all know sponsor PPS is not set up to be advantageous to the affiliate; it's where the sponsor makes the money. So, if you really think otherwise, post the numbers. :)
#1. Did u see the #s lightspeed webmasters are earning each month ?
it was posted on GFY many times.

#2. How many affiliates got RICH sending traffic to revshare paysites ??
NONE. I can name at least one affiliate that got rich off PPS > Nick :D

#3 Scott's Law - higher volumes on lower margins will make u RICH

#4 Serge's Law - high margins, low volume, means u'r still sucking dick :agrin:
Probably one of the best posts in this thread. [/b][/quote]
I have to agree.

There have been many good posts in this thread thus far, but that is succint and to the point.

And what a point it makes.

:pearl:

Nickatilynx

12-21-2004, 01:43 AM

Stupidiest thing I ever did was start paying (out of the kindness of my heart) the volenteers at Netpond.

Before that everything was done free.

So like an idiot , I start giving them a couple of hundred bucks a mth.

Then they start whining about "not enough"

Next thing ya know salaries are running 60k a mth plus lol

...

end rant...

ok..fuck ya all. ;-)))

Ask not what oprano can do , but what you can do for oprano!!!

TheEnforcer

12-21-2004, 01:44 AM

Originally posted by Dravyk@Dec 20 2004, 09:15 PM
Rolo, I never said one has to shave, just that those who want to, can -- even in a so-called "no shave" system.

Matter of fact, if I wanted to have a program that shaved, there is no way I'd have an in-house stats system! The very best way to "demonstrate" how "clean and honest" the program would be is to use some third-party processor or program that 99% of the webhamsters think is unshavable and then find a way to do it!!

Slav, Nick, everyone of you traffic guys (ditto Greenie, others) swear by PPS over revshare every time. Never has made sense to me; still doesn't. We all know sponsor PPS is not set up to be advantageous to the affiliate; it's where the sponsor makes the money. So, if you really think otherwise, post the numbers. :)
Don't get me wrong, I feel rev share is certainly a viable option and that every webmaster should be sending a portion of their traffic to good rev share programs like Vick's and others out there BUT think of it in these terms.

Ask any economics professor which option they would choose if they won the lottery if they won 100 million (or whatever it is), the 45 million lump sum payment or the 100 million over 20 or 25 years depending on the lottery and practically down to the professor they will tell you that they will choose the lump sum. Why? It's really rather simple. That larger lump sum allows you to leverage your upfront money MUCH more so as to be able to make MUCH more through the years than were you to just take the 4 million a year. It allows you to make the MAXIMUM use of the buying power and leverage of your money right away. It's the same principle here except on a much shorter time scale.

TheEnforcer

12-21-2004, 01:50 AM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 21 2004, 12:57 AM
Good post , Slav.

We do need a "highlights" section.

Anyone wanna volenteer to rin it?

:)

And Harry I can shave the shit out of you if you send me traffic on a third party run revshare.
Blasphemy!!

Volunteer!! WTF?

:blink: :huh:

CuriousToyBoy

12-21-2004, 02:17 AM

I'll volunteer for an administration fee...

I'd be charitable like World Vision, for every dollar in the people who really need it get about 8c.

:ph34r:

slavdogg

12-21-2004, 02:57 AM

...

Lee

12-21-2004, 03:03 AM

Timon,

Stupid question about those iBill stats..

How comes 0 people converted on month 11 but 2 converted on month 12?

Or am i reading that wrong?

slavdogg

12-21-2004, 03:08 AM

Originally posted by Lee@Dec 21 2004, 03:04 AM
Timon,

Stupid question about those iBill stats..

How comes 0 people converted on month 11 but 2 converted on month 12?

Or am i reading that wrong?
how many people were rebilled 11 times ??

slavdogg

12-21-2004, 03:17 AM

Originally posted by Timon@Dec 21 2004, 01:32 AM
http://agilemobile.com/ibill.GIF

Here's what one day of TGP traffic does on an average paysite.

The table shows the results for 838 signups.

#0 is how many people did not convert
#1 is how many people were rebilled once
#2 is how many people were rebilled twice, etc.

I think it's better to get your money upfront, not a year down the line ;-)
ok let me try this again

16% trial convert ratio
total gross #s are roughly $27,000
$32 / sign up

Timon is my math correct ?

Timon

12-21-2004, 04:39 AM

Originally posted by slavdogg+Dec 21 2004, 03:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (slavdogg @ Dec 21 2004, 03:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Timon@Dec 21 2004, 01:32 AM
http://agilemobile.com/ibill.GIF

Here's what one day of TGP traffic does on an average paysite.

The table shows the results for 838 signups.

#0 is how many people did not convert
#1 is how many people were rebilled once
#2 is how many people were rebilled twice, etc.

I think it's better to get your money upfront, not a year down the line ;-)
ok let me try this again

16% trial convert ratio
total gross #s are roughly $27,000
$32 / sign up

Timon is my math correct ? [/b][/quote]
No that's wrong.

#1 is not everything that converted, it's everything that converted once and then canceled.

Lee, it means that nobody bought a membership and canceled after 11 months, but two people canceled after 12 months.

This table are the 3 day trials only, there are also weekly trials, monthly trials and yearly prepaid which pull the average up quite a bit.

Lee

12-21-2004, 04:51 AM

Gotcha thanks :)

slavdogg

12-21-2004, 04:55 AM

Originally posted by Timon+Dec 21 2004, 04:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Timon @ Dec 21 2004, 04:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by slavdogg@Dec 21 2004, 03:18 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Timon@Dec 21 2004, 01:32 AM
http://agilemobile.com/ibill.GIF

Here's what one day of TGP traffic does on an average paysite.

The table shows the results for 838 signups.

#0 is how many people did not convert
#1 is how many people were rebilled once
#2 is how many people were rebilled twice, etc.

I think it's better to get your money upfront, not a year down the line ;-)
ok let me try this again

16% trial convert ratio
total gross #s are roughly $27,000
$32 / sign up

Timon is my math correct ?
No that's wrong.

#1 is not everything that converted, it's everything that converted once and then canceled.

Lee, it means that nobody bought a membership and canceled after 11 months, but two people canceled after 12 months.

This table are the 3 day trials only, there are also weekly trials, monthly trials and yearly prepaid which pull the average up quite a bit. [/b][/quote]
i see my error, trial converts are at 27%
but the rest of the #s should be correct, no ?
607 * $3
139 * 50
32 *2 * 50
20 * 3 * 50
15 * 4 * 50
....

Almighty Colin

12-21-2004, 05:09 AM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 17 2004, 07:10 PM

Because no webmaster on GFY wuill ever send you traffic if you say:

I'm paying 7.82 per free trial join!!!

But they will if you shave the fuck out of them and say you'll pay $200 joins every second tuesday after lent.
What's your name? X Pics?

Almighty Colin

12-21-2004, 05:12 AM

Originally posted by TheEnforcer@Dec 21 2004, 01:45 AM
Ask any economics professor which option they would choose if they won the lottery if they won 100 million (or whatever it is), the 45 million lump sum payment or the 100 million over 20 or 25 years depending on the lottery and practically down to the professor they will tell you that they will choose the lump sum. Why? It's really rather simple. That larger lump sum allows you to leverage your upfront money MUCH more so as to be able to make MUCH more through the years than were you to just take the 4 million a year. It allows you to make the MAXIMUM use of the buying power and leverage of your money right away. It's the same principle here except on a much shorter time scale.
Fuck the economist. What would a psychologist say? Most people who go from rags to riches find that the lump sum just gives them a way to SPEND more money up front. They can't afford that kind of leverage.

slavdogg

12-21-2004, 05:14 AM

Originally posted by Colin+Dec 21 2004, 05:13 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Colin @ Dec 21 2004, 05:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-TheEnforcer@Dec 21 2004, 01:45 AM
Ask any economics professor which option they would choose if they won the lottery if they won 100 million (or whatever it is), the 45 million lump sum payment or the 100 million over 20 or 25 years depending on the lottery and practically down to the professor they will tell you that they will choose the lump sum. Why? It's really rather simple. That larger lump sum allows you to leverage your upfront money MUCH more so as to be able to make MUCH more through the years than were you to just take the 4 million a year. It allows you to make the MAXIMUM use of the buying power and leverage of your money right away. It's the same principle here except on a much shorter time scale.
Fuck the economist. What would a psychologist say? Most people who go from rags to riches find that the lump sum just gives them a way to SPEND more money up front. They can't afford that kind of leverage. [/b][/quote]
Colin, which one would you take ?

Dravyk

12-21-2004, 05:50 AM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 21 2004, 12:57 AM
And Harry I can shave the shit out of you if you send me traffic on a third party run revshare.
LOL! That's already been established that that's the way to do it.

And you still don't get it ???!!!!????
Ok, let's put it the other way, then. If you're a sponsor, which payout model is most advantageous to you the owner (assuming you can only choose one): a revshare or PPS? Why? Exactly. Now flip the tables to the affiliate side and you have your answer.

#2. How many affiliates got RICH sending traffic to revshare paysites ??
How many affiliates can sponsor convention parties at $50K a clip several times a year?

slavdogg

12-21-2004, 06:13 AM

>> which payout model is most advantageous to you the owner

PPS, they'll get more traffic, more volume and the 5% of affiliates you mentioned in another thread will only deal with PPS.

Let me ask you this. Does a sponsor want a BIG piece of a little pie, or a small piece of a BIG pie ???

>> How many affiliates can sponsor convention parties at $50K a clip several times a year?

Are you trying to confirm my point that revshare affiliates are broke ass mofos ?? i agree with you :okthumb:

Almighty Colin

12-21-2004, 06:20 AM

Originally posted by slavdogg+Dec 21 2004, 05:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (slavdogg @ Dec 21 2004, 05:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Colin@Dec 21 2004, 05:13 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-TheEnforcer@Dec 21 2004, 01:45 AM
Ask any economics professor which option they would choose if they won the lottery if they won 100 million (or whatever it is), the 45 million lump sum payment or the 100 million over 20 or 25 years depending on the lottery and practically down to the professor they will tell you that they will choose the lump sum. Why? It's really rather simple. That larger lump sum allows you to leverage your upfront money MUCH more so as to be able to make MUCH more through the years than were you to just take the 4 million a year. It allows you to make the MAXIMUM use of the buying power and leverage of your money right away. It's the same principle here except on a much shorter time scale.
Fuck the economist. What would a psychologist say? Most people who go from rags to riches find that the lump sum just gives them a way to SPEND more money up front. They can't afford that kind of leverage.
Colin, which one would you take ? [/b][/quote]
I'll take it now. The government might be broke later. ;-)

Timon

12-21-2004, 07:14 AM

Originally posted by slavdogg@Dec 21 2004, 04:56 AM

i see my error, trial converts are at 27%
but the rest of the #s should be correct, no ?
607 * $3
139 * 50
32 *2 * 50
20 * 3 * 50
15 * 4 * 50
....
Yes that is correct. Keep in mind though that other options add about $5 to the average per CC sign-up.

Those are the real numbers, not snipe promo for a program I am running because I am unemployed now and have nothing to promote ;-)

Meat

12-21-2004, 08:40 AM

Meat

12-21-2004, 08:41 AM

Slav

We got a dogging site coming up in the near future, get readdy for it cos that site is going to be the best converting of all in our portfolio

Nickatilynx

12-21-2004, 09:11 AM

Originally posted by Vick+Dec 21 2004, 06:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vick @ Dec 21 2004, 06:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-TheEnforcer@Dec 21 2004, 01:45 AM
Don't get me wrong, I feel rev share is certainly a viable option and that every webmaster should be sending a portion of their traffic to good rev share programs like Vick's
Thanks for the kinds words TE

Have been very honest in this thread, basically due to the fact the readers of Oprano are intelligent and know what the deal is

Anyone can open a PPS program anytime, just charge $29.95 per month with no trial and pay $25 per join

At this time I feel more can be earned with a trial membership and good conversions but I've been wrong before [/b][/quote]
Nope not anyone can.

Cause even then , you need cash.

PPS affiliates do not have the patience to wait for their money that people dealing with a porcessor have.

;-))

Anthony

12-21-2004, 09:32 AM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 20 2004, 10:44 PM
Stupidiest thing I ever did was start paying (out of the kindness of my heart) the volenteers at Netpond.

Before that everything was done free.

So like an idiot , I start giving them a couple of hundred bucks a mth.

Then they start whining about "not enough"

Next thing ya know salaries are running 60k a mth plus lol

...

end rant...

ok..fuck ya all. ;-)))

Ask not what oprano can do , but what you can do for oprano!!!
Was closer to 80k.

Vick

12-21-2004, 09:34 AM

Originally posted by TheEnforcer@Dec 21 2004, 01:45 AM
Don't get me wrong, I feel rev share is certainly a viable option and that every webmaster should be sending a portion of their traffic to good rev share programs like Vick's
Thanks for the kinds words TE

Have been very honest in this thread, basically due to the fact the readers of Oprano are intelligent and know what the deal is

Anyone can open a PPS program anytime, just charge $29.95 per month with no trial and pay $25 per join

At this time I feel more can be earned with a trial membership and good conversions but I've been wrong before

Nickatilynx

12-21-2004, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by TheEnforcer+Dec 21 2004, 08:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TheEnforcer @ Dec 21 2004, 08:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Dec 21 2004, 01:44 AM
Stupidiest thing I ever did was start paying (out of the kindness of my heart) the volenteers at Netpond.

Before that everything was done free.

So like an idiot , I start giving them a couple of hundred bucks a mth.

Then they start whining about "not enough"

Next thing ya know salaries are running 60k a mth plus lol

...

end rant...

ok..fuck ya all. ;-)))

Ask not what oprano can do , but what you can do for oprano!!!
For christ sake, then you need to hire people that know not to complain if they don't have a lot to do. :P [/b][/quote]
Oh trust me , I did.

;-)))

TheEnforcer

12-21-2004, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 21 2004, 01:44 AM
Stupidiest thing I ever did was start paying (out of the kindness of my heart) the volenteers at Netpond.

Before that everything was done free.

So like an idiot , I start giving them a couple of hundred bucks a mth.

Then they start whining about "not enough"

Next thing ya know salaries are running 60k a mth plus lol

...

end rant...

ok..fuck ya all. ;-)))

Ask not what oprano can do , but what you can do for oprano!!!
For christ sake, then you need to hire people that know not to complain if they don't have a lot to do. :P

TheEnforcer

12-21-2004, 11:01 AM

Vick

12-21-2004, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Dec 21 2004, 09:12 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Dec 21 2004, 09:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Vick@Dec 21 2004, 06:35 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-TheEnforcer@Dec 21 2004, 01:45 AM
Don't get me wrong, I feel rev share is certainly a viable option and that every webmaster should be sending a portion of their traffic to good rev share programs like Vick's
Thanks for the kinds words TE

Have been very honest in this thread, basically due to the fact the readers of Oprano are intelligent and know what the deal is

Anyone can open a PPS program anytime, just charge $29.95 per month with no trial and pay $25 per join

At this time I feel more can be earned with a trial membership and good conversions but I've been wrong before
Nope not anyone can.

Cause even then , you need cash.

PPS affiliates do not have the patience to wait for their money that people dealing with a porcessor have.

;-)) [/b][/quote]
Nick - we are having a lot of good business discussions but I'm not going to get into the how to do it here

But it can be done very easily :awinky:

gonzo

12-21-2004, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by Vick+Dec 21 2004, 11:12 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vick @ Dec 21 2004, 11:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 21 2004, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by Vick@Dec 21 2004, 06:35 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-TheEnforcer@Dec 21 2004, 01:45 AM
Don't get me wrong, I feel rev share is certainly a viable option and that every webmaster should be sending a portion of their traffic to good rev share programs like Vick's
Thanks for the kinds words TE

Have been very honest in this thread, basically due to the fact the readers of Oprano are intelligent and know what the deal is

Anyone can open a PPS program anytime, just charge $29.95 per month with no trial and pay $25 per join

At this time I feel more can be earned with a trial membership and good conversions but I've been wrong before
Nope not anyone can.

Cause even then , you need cash.

PPS affiliates do not have the patience to wait for their money that people dealing with a porcessor have.

;-))
Nick - we are having a lot of good business discussions but I'm not going to get into the how to do it here

But it can be done very easily :awinky: [/b][/quote]
Vick for a sec I thought you were going to say who needs affiliates anyway? Just work SE traffic and TGP owners.....

Vick

12-21-2004, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by gonzo@Dec 21 2004, 12:01 PM
Vick for a sec I thought you were going to say who needs affiliates anyway? Just work SE traffic and TGP owners.....
Another thing to consider is to outright hire your best tier 2 webhamsters to work for you exclusively

or teach someone ground up and make them a good webhamster

Nickatilynx

12-21-2004, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by Vick+Dec 21 2004, 09:06 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vick @ Dec 21 2004, 09:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-gonzo@Dec 21 2004, 12:01 PM
Vick for a sec I thought you were going to say who needs affiliates anyway? Just work SE traffic and TGP owners.....
Another thing to consider is to outright hire your best tier 2 webhamsters to work for you exclusively

or teach someone ground up and make them a good webhamster [/b][/quote]
That works very very well.

"Nicks Law of Web Feudalism"

"First you find a "Steve. Then you get Steve to find his own Steve"

Webfeudalism works great

.Let people use your resources , ie hosting , money , mail lists , contacts , availability of a programmer 24/7 etc and get them to pay you a vig.

Please contact me , if interested. Seriously.

(I'm serious about writing a book of web theory and teaching btw,,)

;-)))

""You too can make MILLIONS in the adult net.

Take a course from someone in Adult Internet that has grossed Excess 10m in 6 yrs (Audit available)

2 books , a video , 24 hour support and 2 hours one on one consulting included

4 easy payments of 99.95 .

Webhosting , content and design provided at additional Charge.

Be making money next month!""

Please contact me , if interested in partnering up on this. Seriously.

:)

Anyone wanna

Almighty Colin

12-21-2004, 03:01 PM

Originally posted by TheEnforcer+Dec 21 2004, 11:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TheEnforcer @ Dec 21 2004, 11:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Colin@Dec 21 2004, 05:13 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-TheEnforcer@Dec 21 2004, 01:45 AM
Ask any economics professor which option they would choose if they won the lottery if they won 100 million (or whatever it is), the 45 million lump sum payment or the 100 million over 20 or 25 years depending on the lottery and practically down to the professor they will tell you that they will choose the lump sum. Why? It's really rather simple. That larger lump sum allows you to leverage your upfront money MUCH more so as to be able to make MUCH more through the years than were you to just take the 4 million a year. It allows you to make the MAXIMUM use of the buying power and leverage of your money right away. It's the same principle here except on a much shorter time scale.
Fuck the economist. What would a psychologist say? Most people who go from rags to riches find that the lump sum just gives them a way to SPEND more money up front. They can't afford that kind of leverage.
Not the economists fault the majority of people are idiots. [/b][/quote]
Not the economist's fault. The economist just needs to consider whom the winner is before answering. One should consider one's particular weaknesses when making such decisions.

If you have a drinking problem and are trying to quit, it's not a good idea to hang out in bars.

The following guy should take the payments. He didn't.

NEW YORK — With just 78 cents in his savings account and $44,000 owed to creditors, parking attendant Juan Rodriguez plunked down $1 on a lottery ticket. Good thing he wasn't pinching pennies: He won a $149 million lottery jackpot.

Rodriguez, 49, of Queens, bought his Mega Millions lottery ticket about one month after filing for bankruptcy.

He stepped forward over the weekend to claim his prize, proving to be a man of many dollars but few words. At a news conference, he wore dark glasses and said he was "excited." Asked what he planned to do with his millions, he said, "I have no idea."

According to court papers, Rodriguez had exactly 78 cents in his savings account and nothing in his checking account. He owed $19,486 on one credit card and $10,070 on another. And he owed the Internal Revenue Service $2,279.

Rodriguez bought his ticket in the middle of a double shift at his $28,000-a-year job as a parking garage attendant. He immigrated to the United States from Colombia in 1982.

There was one clue that Rodriguez wanted his cash fast: He opted for a lump-sum payment of $88.5 million instead of 26 annual installments.

TheEnforcer

12-21-2004, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by Colin+Dec 21 2004, 03:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Colin @ Dec 21 2004, 03:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by TheEnforcer@Dec 21 2004, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by Colin@Dec 21 2004, 05:13 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-TheEnforcer@Dec 21 2004, 01:45 AM
Ask any economics professor which option they would choose if they won the lottery if they won 100 million (or whatever it is), the 45 million lump sum payment or the 100 million over 20 or 25 years depending on the lottery and practically down to the professor they will tell you that they will choose the lump sum. Why? It's really rather simple. That larger lump sum allows you to leverage your upfront money MUCH more so as to be able to make MUCH more through the years than were you to just take the 4 million a year. It allows you to make the MAXIMUM use of the buying power and leverage of your money right away. It's the same principle here except on a much shorter time scale.
Fuck the economist. What would a psychologist say? Most people who go from rags to riches find that the lump sum just gives them a way to SPEND more money up front. They can't afford that kind of leverage.
Not the economists fault the majority of people are idiots.
Not the economist's fault. The economist just needs to consider whom the winner is before answering. One should consider one's particular weaknesses when making such decisions.

If you have a drinking problem and are trying to quit, it's not a good idea to hang out in bars.

The following guy should take the payments. He didn't.

NEW YORK — With just 78 cents in his savings account and $44,000 owed to creditors, parking attendant Juan Rodriguez plunked down $1 on a lottery ticket. Good thing he wasn't pinching pennies: He won a $149 million lottery jackpot.

Rodriguez, 49, of Queens, bought his Mega Millions lottery ticket about one month after filing for bankruptcy.

He stepped forward over the weekend to claim his prize, proving to be a man of many dollars but few words. At a news conference, he wore dark glasses and said he was "excited." Asked what he planned to do with his millions, he said, "I have no idea."

According to court papers, Rodriguez had exactly 78 cents in his savings account and nothing in his checking account. He owed $19,486 on one credit card and $10,070 on another. And he owed the Internal Revenue Service $2,279.

Rodriguez bought his ticket in the middle of a double shift at his $28,000-a-year job as a parking garage attendant. He immigrated to the United States from Colombia in 1982.

There was one clue that Rodriguez wanted his cash fast: He opted for a lump-sum payment of $88.5 million instead of 26 annual installments. [/b][/quote]
Not necessarily the case though likely. He may start to be smart about money now. I agree that the up front option isn't the best for everyone. If you can't manage money the recurring option probably is best. As stated before I think every webmaster should have recurring programs as a part of their stable of sites they send to as well. All I'm saying is from a pure economic standpoint the money up front is a better option.

Almighty Colin

12-21-2004, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by TheEnforcer@Dec 21 2004, 04:19 PM
He may start to be smart about money now.
I say he's doomed. The best predictor of future behavior is previous behavior.

*KK*

12-21-2004, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by Meat@Dec 20 2004, 03:22 AM
Nick

We have people sending traffic to netpondcash converting at better than 1:50 so if we were gonna shave, those numbers wouldnt exist.
How are you counting those hits meat? First page raw? Second page unique? Third page of the members area?

Nothing personal, but I wish I could remember Serge's comparison he made years ago, involving the death rate in Europe from 1914-1918 (I think it was) and some cucumbers.

Nickatilynx

12-21-2004, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by Lord Aga+Dec 21 2004, 03:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Lord Aga @ Dec 21 2004, 03:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by *KK*@Dec 21 2004, 05:42 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Meat@Dec 20 2004, 03:22 AM
Nick

We have people sending traffic to netpondcash converting at better than 1:50 so if we were gonna shave, those numbers wouldnt exist.
How are you counting those hits meat? First page raw? Second page unique? Third page of the members area?

Nothing personal, but I wish I could remember Serge's comparison he made years ago, involving the death rate in Europe from 1914-1918 (I think it was) and some cucumbers.
Hits are counted before they even hit the first sales page :) Raw and unique hits are counted.. the difference between raw and unique hits is 19%

Look at http://cheaters.uncovered.com and you will see why we convert :) [/b][/quote]
Seriously IMHO that is one , if not THE best , site I have seen in ages.

:wnw:

Lord Aga

12-21-2004, 06:18 PM

Originally posted by *KK*+Dec 21 2004, 05:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (*KK* @ Dec 21 2004, 05:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Meat@Dec 20 2004, 03:22 AM
Nick

We have people sending traffic to netpondcash converting at better than 1:50 so if we were gonna shave, those numbers wouldnt exist.
How are you counting those hits meat? First page raw? Second page unique? Third page of the members area?

Nothing personal, but I wish I could remember Serge's comparison he made years ago, involving the death rate in Europe from 1914-1918 (I think it was) and some cucumbers. [/b][/quote]
Hits are counted before they even hit the first sales page :) Raw and unique hits are counted.. the difference between raw and unique hits is 19%

Look at http://cheaters.uncovered.com and you will see why we convert :)

SykkBoy

12-21-2004, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Dec 21 2004, 05:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Dec 21 2004, 05:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Lord Aga@Dec 21 2004, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by *KK*@Dec 21 2004, 05:42 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Meat@Dec 20 2004, 03:22 AM
Nick

We have people sending traffic to netpondcash converting at better than 1:50 so if we were gonna shave, those numbers wouldnt exist.
How are you counting those hits meat? First page raw? Second page unique? Third page of the members area?

Nothing personal, but I wish I could remember Serge's comparison he made years ago, involving the death rate in Europe from 1914-1918 (I think it was) and some cucumbers.
Hits are counted before they even hit the first sales page :) Raw and unique hits are counted.. the difference between raw and unique hits is 19%

Look at http://cheaters.uncovered.com and you will see why we convert :)
Seriously IMHO that is one , if not THE best , site I have seen in ages.

:wnw: [/b][/quote]
yup, almost joined that site myself...

Lord Aga

12-21-2004, 07:21 PM

LOL.. I`ll set you both up with members access in the morning ;)

SykkBoy

12-21-2004, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by Lord Aga@Dec 21 2004, 07:22 PM
LOL.. I`ll set you both up with members access in the morning ;)
nice
I actually signed up for netpondcash, but now I have to actually start sending some traffic...

Nickatilynx

12-21-2004, 08:19 PM

Originally posted by Lord Aga@Dec 21 2004, 04:22 PM
LOL.. I`ll set you both up with members access in the morning ;)

sweeeeeet :)

slavdogg

12-22-2004, 01:51 AM

Originally posted by Lord Aga@Dec 21 2004, 07:22 PM
LOL.. I`ll set you both up with members access in the morning ;)
Now thats what u buy a pornmaster for Chrismas that has it all
a free password :okthumb:

SykkBoy

12-22-2004, 02:02 AM

Originally posted by slavdogg+Dec 22 2004, 01:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (slavdogg @ Dec 22 2004, 01:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Lord Aga@Dec 21 2004, 07:22 PM
LOL.. I`ll set you both up with members access in the morning ;)
Now thats what u buy a pornmaster for Chrismas that has it all
a free password :okthumb: [/b][/quote]
yup
because no matter how long you've been in this business and how much you've seen, sometimes, someone finds your niche ;-)

Pornwolf

12-22-2004, 03:07 AM

This was a hilarious thread. It's nice to see honesty among business associates.

Timon

12-22-2004, 03:14 AM

Originally posted by slavdogg+Dec 22 2004, 01:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (slavdogg @ Dec 22 2004, 01:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Lord Aga@Dec 21 2004, 07:22 PM
LOL.. I`ll set you both up with members access in the morning ;)
Now thats what u buy a pornmaster for Chrismas that has it all
a free password :okthumb: [/b][/quote]
Self nominated :pearl: => You can never have enough porn! ;-)

JoesHO

12-22-2004, 09:09 AM

great site guys.... :okthumb:

Nickatilynx

12-22-2004, 12:48 PM

Check yours!!

I , Nickatilynx , wish to signup for

http://www.netpondcash.com

:)

Funny how times change...

;-)))

Gonna check it out tonight :)

Lord Aga

12-22-2004, 01:15 PM

Hey guys.. check your PM`s.. I set you up :)

CuriousToyBoy

12-23-2004, 01:08 AM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 23 2004, 03:49 AM
Check yours!!

I , Nickatilynx , wish to signup for

http://www.netpondcash.com

:)

Funny how times change...

;-)))

Gonna check it out tonight :)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Meat, Aga.

I suggest raising payouts to $70 per join and implementing a 45% shave effective IMMEDIATELY.

Just so Nick feels comfortable about sending you traffic.

:yowsa:

Actually Nick, send me traffic like the good old days and I'll eat every word I have EVER written on the subject and find someone to set up 623 shaving mechanisms right away !!

I could even go one step further and develop a shaving algorithm just for you....

Let's see ......

Your Actual Join value.......

minus....

Cost of ScottPB Mansion in Bali...

less....

Value of Serge's wine collection and stock portfolio

equals....

Your payout figure.

I'd even name the equation.........

....
.

....
.

Let's call it "1998".

:agrin: :P

DrumWild

12-23-2004, 03:38 AM

good work guys!!

Nickatilynx

01-03-2005, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by CuriousToyBoy+Dec 22 2004, 10:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CuriousToyBoy @ Dec 22 2004, 10:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Dec 23 2004, 03:49 AM
Check yours!!

I , Nickatilynx , wish to signup for

http://www.netpondcash.com

:)

Funny how times change...

;-)))

Gonna check it out tonight :)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Meat, Aga.

I suggest raising payouts to $70 per join and implementing a 45% shave effective IMMEDIATELY.

Just so Nick feels comfortable about sending you traffic.

:yowsa:

Actually Nick, send me traffic like the good old days and I'll eat every word I have EVER written on the subject and find someone to set up 623 shaving mechanisms right away !!

I could even go one step further and develop a shaving algorithm just for you....

Let's see ......

Your Actual Join value.......

minus....

Cost of ScottPB Mansion in Bali...

less....

Value of Serge's wine collection and stock portfolio

equals....

Your payout figure.

I'd even name the equation.........

....
.

....
.

Let's call it "1998".

:agrin: :P [/b][/quote]
The wood work on Scotts mansion is incredible CTB. ;-)))

Therefore the shave would be just right.

Bumped this for BillPMB.

Oh and as far as Meat and Aga's thing.

http://www.netpondcash.com

I refreshed some dormant domains to it , and would you believe got a couple of signups.

It also gave me another wake up call. (New Thread)

FUCK!!! Found money , luvely jubbly :)

;-)))