Tell me about your free sites

[gonzo]

Outside of TGPs whats everyone doing with free sites these days?

Heres your change to sport your stuff....trade a little traffic and not piss off the newlywedded Br and Mrs Bot.

[Lee]

Free sites? Thats Soooo 1990's :nyanya:

[Hell Puppy]

The real question is HOW do you get traffic to a free site these days outside of TGP's.

[Opti]

Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Dec 7 2004, 02:39 PM
The real question is HOW do you get traffic to a free site these days outside of TGP's.
Freesites mainly survive on LinkList and search engine traffic.

Freesite building doesn't show instant results so many new webmasters don't persist with it. A TGP gallery will do most of it's joins immediately after being listed.. Where a freesite might take 1-2 years to generate the same number of joins. I would say after 24 months an average freesite should produce 15-20 joins.
And guessing 15-20 joins would be a reasonable average per gallery page?

The main difference between the Freesite and Gallery building webmasters is attitude.

Most webmasters choose to build TGP Galleries first as the direct traffic numbers are easier to see and the formula to make a site is easier to understand. Webmasters who gravitate to FreeSite building over TGPing are usually motivated by a wish to build an empire for the future... They may be doing well day to day TGPing but if they stop submitting galleries the income drops away.

Some people choose to build LinkList Freesites as the TGP bandwidth scares them off too.. doing freesites requires almost no financial committment until regular income is already rolling.. I would guess it's hard to start building daily galleries for TGPs without fixed hosting costs of a couple of hundred bucks minimum?

It can take 12 months of working with Freesites to get to the daily income a gallery per day TGPer is making after 1-2 months... but by the end of year two, the Freesite Builder should be well ahead for the same time invested.. And at that point if they both decided to retire.. the freesite webmaster should have 6-12 months of something near normal income levels.. and also expect it to take years before income tailed off completely.. if it ever did stop. I don't know enough about TGPing to predict how fast gallery income would drop off, but 12 months would just about be the end of it at a guess?

Last but not least... and this was never something I thought about originally when I jumped into LinkLists... If a webmaster has a domain with 100 established freesites on it... they have an asset that can be easilly sold for a number in the $,000 if they need to cash out in an emergency.

Last time I tried working TGPs everyone wanted to delete their old gallery pages as early as they could get away with it after listing.. even if that's not still the case.. i'm thinking about $15 for a domain with 100 Gallery pages on it? Maybe a few hundred bucks to someone who could re-use the galleries..

BTW, personally I think it's better to pick one or the other than do both.. on the surface they seem like almost the same thing.. but take very different mindsets to do each well imho.



I didn't know what to say "about my freesites" Gonzo, so thought that might be helpful to some people that scratch their heads over why the hell LinkList people would choose it over TGP (like moi)


PS.. Hosted Freesites for CelebrityBling webmasters coming Nov 1st.. oops Dec 1st... ah shit.. coming when they get here :\

[Lee]

You know we have a network of around 500 free sites atm and they do garner a relatively nice traffic and, ultimately income stream each month.

We are about to start mirroring them across multiple domains using sim linking too which, if we set it up correctly, would mean we can have 500 new free sites built within a couple of minutes for each new domain we buy.

We also tended to create several 'doorway pages' when we used to build them too which were utlized as TGP galleries amongst other things.

[mojobill]

That was a very nice post Opti!

Free Sites are still something that will generated income, if you have the patience and forsight to work them.....

and if you do well with freesites in adult.. that process is easily duplicated in the NON-adult world with VERY nice results! ;-)

[Opti]

Originally posted by fatbaby@Dec 7 2004, 10:06 PM
That was a very nice post Opti!

Free Sites are still something that will generated income, if you have the patience and forsight to work them.....

and if you do well with freesites in adult.. that process is easily duplicated in the NON-adult world with VERY nice results! ;-)
Thanks FatBaby!

I have been very very slow trying to get a good foothold established in Non-Adult.. but Dravyk/Electra's www.mainstreamwebmasters.com project got me inspired to force myself to commit some time.

And I keep being astounded how there feels like an easy opportunity around every corner... rather than mainstream having all the easiest opportunites covered already as i had expected!

I had been half wondering if I am just enthusiastic and kidding myself... but I bet you just explained it!!

and if you do well with freesites in adult.. that process is easily duplicated in the NON-adult world with VERY nice results! ;-)


I didn't realise you worked with LL/freesites Fatbaby! If you do, love to catch up and say hello at very least.

[JoesHO]

Thank you Opti.. that was a very informative post.

[Winetalk.com]

Just a freindly reminder, if anyone here would like to have offshore hosting, Joe can help with that.

[mojobill]

I didn't realise you worked with LL/freesites Fatbaby! If you do, love to catch up and say hello at very least.



In adult, 90% of what I did centered around free sites... although I have not done much in that area for the last year or more.. been working mainstream much more the past year....

I'll be in Vegas... we can chat if you'll be around...

[Dravyk]

Very nice post, Opti!

And thanks for the nice things to say about MW.

Totally agree, in adult, free sites, are a long-term "empire" thing, compared to TGP galleries. Also agree, mainstream has so many varying ways to make money, it's dizzying trying to decide where to concentrate on!

[Opti]

Thanks Joe! I also got the number and havent forgotten btw. ;)

I haven't booked FatBaby.... but for some reason cant bring myself to say "no I wont go to Vegas" yet.. :unsure:

:inlove: @ Dravyk




Whilst people might still read a little more.. Just thought of another thing worth mentioning about LinkLists that might help Oprano understanding, or any program owners thinking "but TGPers as a group look huge in my stats and I can hardly pick out the freesite people".


The main reason LinkList/Freesite webmasters can slip under the radar is that they generally spread their traffic over many more affiliate programs than the average TGPer would each month.

In November welovefreeporn.com saw about 700k unique visitors which converted to about 300k clicks sent to my own sponsors and around 3.5 million clicks sent to the Freesites listed. LinkList clicks sent to freesites have 10-20% CTR to the advertised paysite. Which roughly equates to welovefreeporn.com having delivered around 1 Million clicks for adult affiliate program paysites last month. (if anyone could post a comparison site from TGP world might be interesting)

Those numbers probably sounds OK for 1 site... but the 300k clicks to my own sponsors were spread over 150+ different affiliate programs and generated sales on about 50 of them.. Only a handful of sponsors received more than 1000 clicks per day and the largest single earner made less than 100 joins... So it's doubtful many sponsors even noticed I sent from there at all.


In some cases, traffic from TGP sources might also be more noticeable to affiliate program owners as the click numbers from each TGP gallery comes in a burst, making new galleries show high in the stats everyday. Where every URL a Freesite builder is sending traffic from will almost always be near the bottom of the daily stats, but continuously be there everyday.

Also there is a lot more spin-off money around TGPs.. Hosting Companies, Traffic Brokers, Script Makers, Content Companies, Service companies like submit services and gallery template builders.. This sideline activity creates hype and draws in a wider variety of people to market at the sector and re-inforce the "everyone is making a fortune" impression from different angles.

I'm not saying freesite traffic is preferable.. TGP is still much higher volume traffic and has been much better comercialized than the Freesite area. As an affiliate program owner I would likely take all the hits in one day as opposed to waiting a year for them most times too..

Just trying to bring up some logical reasons that will make sense to an affiliate program owner as to why they may have over-looked the LinkList market segment, which I believe is samller, but probably a little closer to TGP in terms of total $$$ generated than many assume.




** There is some business point to this btw.

1. Oprano affiliate program owners have been missing out on a slice of this pie for about 12 months.
2. What needs to be done to take advantage is very easy if you understand what to do.. basically provide Hosted Freesites for LinkLists and downloadable templates for freesite builders.
3. If you don't know what to do... for 3k I can consult/oversee/advise your people for 30 days as you get set up lauch it. (based on following my suggested plan, which will take about 30 hours of my time over the month)



Also.. is there anyone else who reads Oprano now with experience and a genuine interest in freesites/linklists..... and that thinks I may not be aware you are in the market? (ICQ 2556404 or PM if you don't want to post) In fact, even if you think I do know you, please shoot me a message. Would like to get an idea what we have to work with at moment knowledge and contacts wise.

PS. If there was a LinkList/Freesite specific forum here... would anyone else look at it right now today?

[Nickatilynx]

There is two things ye need to know about my free sites....

One , They are free , and secondly they are a site.

;-))

[Dravyk]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 7 2004, 06:55 PM
There is two things ye need to know about my free sites....

One , They are free , and secondly they are a site.

;-))
If you weren't the owner, some one would have kicked you off for that one, Nick. :D

[Yug]

Originally posted by Opti@Dec 7 2004, 03:43 PM
PS. If there was a LinkList/Freesite specific forum here... would anyone else look at it right now today?
Yes, I would.

I only run freesites, and the attitude is very much one of 'slowly building up an empire over months and months' ... the difference is once the site is up and listed, and all the link trades are put in place, and once the SEO traffic starts to roll in, it really is very little effort to maintain said sites, which is nice.

Trading links with other sites is beneficial to everyone involved, I would love to have more contacts that run other free sites that i could swap specific site links with to boost each others traffic and PR.

I have not been doing this for years, but only months, and already things are working out, proving that there is still alot left to do in this industry that can generate you $$$ for even the fairly new people who are patient and smart.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by Yug+Dec 8 2004, 06:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Yug @ Dec 8 2004, 06:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Opti@Dec 7 2004, 03:43 PM
PS. If there was a LinkList/Freesite specific forum here... would anyone else look at it right now today?
Yes, I would.

I only run freesites, and the attitude is very much one of 'slowly building up an empire over months and months' ... the difference is once the site is up and listed, and all the link trades are put in place, and once the SEO traffic starts to roll in, it really is very little effort to maintain said sites, which is nice.

Trading links with other sites is beneficial to everyone involved, I would love to have more contacts that run other free sites that i could swap specific site links with to boost each others traffic and PR.

I have not been doing this for years, but only months, and already things are working out, proving that there is still alot left to do in this industry that can generate you $$$ for even the fairly new people who are patient and smart. [/b][/quote]
Ok , opti , yug....

if you want a forum like that.....

Icq me guys :)

[Timon]

I don't have a free site but if anyone knows some good ones give me the URLs please so I can stop joining all these premium sites ;-(

[Cleo]

I just spent the last three months remodeling my house and haven't been doing hardly any promotional stuff. I mention this because my TGP traffic fell way off while my free site traffic stayed about the same.

Also my free site traffic often sees more sales after it is no longer new and the traffic has fallen off.

I do make more of my income from free sites that TGPing.

Most of the HFS that I see are real crap. I won't even add many of them in. Outback cash has about the best ones that I've seen.

[Cleo]

Originally posted by Timon@Dec 8 2004, 06:42 PM
I don't have a free site but if anyone knows some good ones give me the URLs please so I can stop joining all these premium sites ;-(
Just go visit The Hun's TGP for all the free porn that you can eat.

[Timon]

Originally posted by Cleo@Dec 8 2004, 09:53 PM

Just go visit The Hun's TGP for all the free porn that you can eat.
What's the URL?

[Yug]

Originally posted by Timon+Dec 8 2004, 09:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Timon @ Dec 8 2004, 09:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Cleo@Dec 8 2004, 09:53 PM

Just go visit The Hun's TGP for all the free porn that you can eat.
What's the URL? [/b][/quote]
www.thehun.com (http://www.thehun.com) ?

[Opti]

Originally posted by Cleo@Dec 9 2004, 12:43 PM
Most of the HFS that I see are real crap. I won't even add many of them in. Outback cash has about the best ones that I've seen.
That exactly why the opportunity exists imho Cleo!

I figure if 2 or 3 of the larger affiliate program owners here that haven't bothered with us before decide it's worth tapping this source of webmasters... we might be able to develop an alternate group of advertisers in the market.. which might support a second good LinkList focussed resource like GGandJim.

A freesite webmaster, in the long term, will produce similar dollars to a TGPer and take one 10th of the effort to service imho.







YUG: PMed you :)

[Timon]

Just checked out the hun and it sucks.

Opti do you have any free porn for me?

[Cleo]

Originally posted by Timon@Dec 9 2004, 06:08 AM
Just checked out the hun and it sucks.

Opti do you have any free porn for me?
Here are some free sites for you
http://foxy-angel.com/webmasters/hosted-sites-epoch.php
Or more here
http://foxy-angel.com/webmasters/hosted-sites-ccbill.php

If you don't like them then maybe check out the Sears catalog's boys underwear section.

[Opti]

Originally posted by Timon@Dec 9 2004, 09:08 PM
Just checked out the hun and it sucks.

Opti do you have any free porn for me?
"Please Do Not Ask For Credit As Refusal May Offend"

C'mon Timon! You just said you are out of business!!! The rules say nothing but pre-paid for you now! ;-)

[Opti]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 9 2004, 02:16 AM

if you want a forum like that.....

Icq me guys :)
LOL.. yes i would like to do "something like that" with Oprano if possible. How many feelers does it take to get you guys to show some interest normally? ;-))

I'm not thinking about another linklist forum doing the same thing as GGandJim though.. Solidarity is a part of the reason things work as they do for LLs and although I think Greenguy and Jim can be dicks to work with at times, it will only hurt the overall business to test peoples loyalty or factionalize it too much imho. A second slightly more "open minded" venue for LL operators and advertisers wanting to target the sector and network really is badly needed though.


Anyone think that sounds useful to them?




*EDIT: You probably saw me mention Kit to Serge.. just between him, Cleo, Alex, Dravyk and I there is a good enough core group of well known "old school" linklists to establish something that will be taken seriously.. So Oprano has always been potentially a great venue from that point of view.. And of course I personally want to do it here.. but so far there has hardly been a sniff of interest in the market from anyone significant around here... after what feels like a few painfully obvious attempts to stir up some. ;-) So I'm not sure what I am thinking of wouldn't end up like the gambling forum, with very little interest from regulars and better off for both parties if it was located seperately from start.

I am keen to run it past you. but ICQ is out of order today.. we can jump on the blower if you are up for it.. just call when you are ready if you can find number or pm me yours.

[Timon]

Originally posted by Opti@Dec 9 2004, 08:30 AM

"Please Do Not Ask For Credit As Refusal May Offend"

C'mon Timon! You just said you are out of business!!! The rules say nothing but pre-paid for you now! ;-)
PLEEAASEE!!

I'll click ALL your banners!!

[Opti]

Originally posted by Timon+Dec 9 2004, 11:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Timon @ Dec 9 2004, 11:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Opti@Dec 9 2004, 08:30 AM

"Please Do Not Ask For Credit As Refusal May Offend"

C'mon Timon! You just said you are out of business!!! The rules say nothing but pre-paid for you now! ;-)
PLEEAASEE!!

I'll click ALL your banners!! [/b][/quote]
HAHAHA :D

Haven't seen one in a while.. but I used to regularly get emails from surfers saying.. "please tell me XYZ site password and I will click all your banners" :D

[KevinG]

If you don't like them then maybe check out the Sears catalog's boys underwear section.

LMAO Cleo.

Great post Opti.

[Timon]

Originally posted by KevinG@Dec 9 2004, 01:27 PM
If you don't like them then maybe check out the Sears catalog's boys underwear section.

LMAO Cleo.


OH YOU THINK THAT SHIT IS FUNNY???

[Lee]

Originally posted by Timon@Dec 9 2004, 03:08 AM
Just checked out the hun and it sucks.

Opti do you have any free porn for me?
Timon,

Heres a TGP you might like... http://www.cumsoda.com ;)

[Timon]

That's some good shit Lee, I appreciate it ;-)

Now where's that bottle of palm grease?

[KevinG]

Originally posted by Timon+Dec 9 2004, 08:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Timon @ Dec 9 2004, 08:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-KevinG@Dec 9 2004, 01:27 PM
If you don't like them then maybe check out the Sears catalog's boys underwear section.

LMAO Cleo.


OH YOU THINK THAT SHIT IS FUNNY??? [/b][/quote]
Yep, and my balls are smoother than Lee Noga's too.