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Mike AI
12-01-2004, 12:36 AM
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/na...-home-headlines (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-warinfo1dec01,0,321180.story?coll=la-home-headlines)

PR Meets Psy-Ops in War on Terror
U.S. emphasis on using information as military tool sparks debate in the Pentagon. Critics say the practice threatens to undermine credibility.






By Mark Mazzetti, Times Staff Writer


WASHINGTON -- On the evening of Oct. 14, a young Marine spokesman near Fallujah appeared on CNN and made a dramatic announcement.

"Troops crossed the line of departure," 1st Lt. Lyle Gilbert declared, using a common military expression signaling the start of a major campaign. "It's going to be a long night."



CNN, which had been alerted to expect a major news development, reported that the long-awaited offensive to retake the Iraqi city of Fallujah had begun.

In fact, the Fallujah offensive would not kick off for another three weeks. Gilbert's carefully worded announcement was an elaborate psychological operation -- or "psy-op" -- intended to dupe insurgents in Fallujah and allow U.S. commanders to see how guerrillas would react when they believed U.S. troops were entering the city, according to several Pentagon officials.

In the hours after the initial report, CNN's Pentagon reporters were able to determine that the Fallujah operation had not, in fact, begun.

"As the story developed, we quickly made it clear to our viewers exactly what was going on in and around Fallujah," CNN spokesman Matthew Furman said.

Officials at the Pentagon and other U.S. national security agencies said the CNN incident was not just an isolated feint -- the type used throughout history by armies to deceive their enemies -- but part of a broad effort under way within the Bush administration to use information to its advantage in the war on terrorism.

The Pentagon in 2002 was forced to shutter its controversial Office of Strategic Influence (OSI), which was opened shortly after the Sept. 11 attacks, after reports that the office intended to plant false news stories in the international media. But officials say that much of OSI's mission -- using information as a tool of war -- has been assumed by other offices throughout the U.S. government.

Although most of the work remains classified, officials say that some of the ongoing efforts include having U.S. military spokesmen play a greater role in psychological operations in Iraq, as well as planting information with sources used by Arabic TV channels such as Al-Jazeera to help influence the portrayal of the United States.

Other specific examples were not known, although U.S. national security officials said an emphasis had been on influencing how foreign media depict the United States.

These efforts have set off a fight inside the Pentagon over the proper use of information in wartime. Several top officials see a danger of blurring what are supposed to be well-defined lines between the stated mission of military public affairs -- disseminating truthful, accurate information to the media and the American public -- and psychological and information operations, the use of often misleading information and propaganda to influence the outcome of a campaign or battle.

Several of those officials who oppose the use of misleading information spoke out against the practice on the condition of anonymity.

"The movement of information has gone from the public affairs world to the psychological operations world," said one senior defense official. "What's at stake is the credibility of people in uniform."

Pentagon spokesman Lawrence Di Rita said he recognized the concern of many inside the Defense Department, but that "everybody understands that there's a very important distinction between information operations and public affairs. Nobody has offered serious proposals that would blur the distinction between these two functions."

Di Rita said he had asked his staff for more information about how the Oct. 14 incident on CNN came about.

One recent development critics point to is the decision by commanders in Iraq in mid-September to combine public affairs, psychological operations and information operations into a "strategic communications" office. An organizational chart of the newly created office was obtained by The Times. The strategic communications office, which began operations Sept. 15, is run by Air Force Brig. Gen. Erv Lessel, who answers directly to Gen. George W. Casey, the top U.S. commander in Iraq.

In part out of concerns about this new office, Gen. Richard B. Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, distributed a letter Sept. 27 to the Joint Chiefs and U.S. combatant commanders in the field warning of the dangers of having military public affairs (PA) too closely aligned with information operations (IO).

"Although both PA and IO conduct planning, message development and media analysis, the efforts differ with respect to audience, scope and intent, and must remain separate," according to a copy of the letter obtained by the Los Angeles Times.

Pentagon officials say Myers is worried that U.S. efforts in Iraq and in the broader campaign against terrorism could suffer if world audiences begin to question the honesty of statements from U.S. commanders and spokespeople.

"While organizations may be inclined to create physically integrated PA/IO offices, such organizational constructs have the potential to compromise the commander's credibility with the media and the public," Myers wrote.

Myers' letter is not being heeded in Iraq, officials said, in part because many top civilians at the Pentagon and National Security Council support an effort that blends public affairs with psy-ops to win Iraqi support -- and Arab support in general -- for the U.S. fight against the insurgency.

Advocates of these programs said that the advent of a 24-hour news cycle and the powerful influence of Arabic satellite television made it essential that U.S. military commanders and civilian officials made the control of information a key part of their battle plans.

"Information is part of the battlefield in a way that it's never been before," one senior Bush administration official said. "We'd be foolish not to try to use it to our advantage."

"The worst outcome would be to lose this war by default. If the smart folks in the psy-op and civil affairs tents can cast a truthful, persuasive message that resonates with the average Iraqi, why not use the public affairs vehicles to transmit it?" asked Charles A. Krohn, a professor at the University of Michigan and former deputy chief of public affairs for the Army. "What harm is done, compared to what is gained? For the first year of the war, we did virtually nothing to tell the Iraqis why we invaded their country and ejected their government. It's about time we got our act together."

Advocates also cite a September report by the Defense Science Board, an outside panel that advises Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, which concluded that a "crisis" in U.S. "strategic communications" has undermined American efforts to fight Islamic extremism worldwide.

The study cited polling in the Arab world that revealed widespread hatred of the United States throughout the Middle East. A poll taken in June by Zogby International revealed that 94 percent of Saudi Arabians have an "unfavorable" view of the United States, compared with 87 percent in April 2002. In Egypt, the second largest recipient of U.S. aid, 98 percent of respondents held an unfavorable view of the United States.

The Defense Science Board recommended a presidential directive to "coordinate all components of strategic communication including public diplomacy, public affairs, international broadcasting, and military information operations."

Di Rita said there is general agreement inside the Bush administration that the U.S. government is ill equipped to communicate its policies and messages abroad in the current media climate.

"As a government, we're not very well organized to do that," he said.

Yet some in the military argue that the efforts at better "strategic communication" sometimes cross the line into propaganda, citing some recent media briefings held in Iraq. During one Nov. 10 briefing by Marine Lt. Gen. John Sattler, reporters were shown a video of Iraqi troops saluting their flag and singing the Iraqi national anthem.

"Pretty soon, we're going to have the 5 o'clock follies all over again and it will take us another 30 years to restore our credibility," said a second senior defense official, referring to the much-ridiculed daily media briefings in Saigon during the Vietnam War.

RawAlex
12-01-2004, 12:58 AM
Your encouraged that the military finds that it needs to lie to everyone?

Sounds great to me. :blink:

Alex

Nickatilynx
12-01-2004, 01:04 AM
Originally posted by RawAlex@Nov 30 2004, 09:59 PM
Your encouraged that the military finds that it needs to lie to everyone?

Sounds great to me. :blink:

Alex
absolutely , Alex.

The military should always tell the enemy via CNN exactly what its plans are.

Every Commander has greatly overrated the element of surprise.

Mike AI
12-01-2004, 01:43 AM
Alex, I want us to use everything in our arsenal to win this war.

The terrorists have been much more successful at propaganda then us, its good we are finally turning the tables.

Nick, what would Winston Churchill have to say about this? How much deception went on by the allies during WWII??

Alex, I am sure we can get a general to call you up to give you all the important details!

SykkBoy
12-01-2004, 01:56 AM
mindgames give me wood

PornoDoggy
12-01-2004, 02:02 AM
Gee, I wonder what old Mikey'd have to say if an incumbent DEMOCRATIC president's administration had manipulated the media that way?

For that matter ... I wonder what Mikey'd have to say about the timing of the actual assult on Falujah if the president had been a Democrat?

Can you hear the screeching about not having the balls to incur casualties just before the election?

There used to be laws/regulations that prohibited "blow-back" (psy-ops reaching U.S. media). There still ought to be.

That's not to say that the U.S. shouldn't engage in ANY kind of operation to confuse or deceive the enemy - but it shouldn't reach this country. Of course, since I question the actions of the Bush Administration in this instance, stand by for a sophmoric (I'm feeling generous tonight) attack on my intelligence and my patriotism.

Not everyone is as willing to listen to the U.S. version of Baghdad Bob as you seem to be, Mikey.

Almighty Colin
12-01-2004, 04:13 AM
Originally posted by RawAlex@Dec 1 2004, 12:59 AM
Your encouraged that the military finds that it needs to lie to everyone?

Sounds great to me. :blink:

Alex
"All war is deception" - Sun Tzu

rhymer
12-01-2004, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Nov 30 2004, 10:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Nov 30 2004, 10:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-RawAlex@Nov 30 2004, 09:59 PM
Your encouraged that the military finds that it needs to lie to everyone?

Sounds great to me. :blink:

Alex
absolutely , Alex.

The military should always tell the enemy via CNN exactly what its plans are.

Every Commander has greatly overrated the element of surprise. [/b][/quote]
Exactly what Al Quaeda has been doing for years.

RawAlex
12-01-2004, 09:19 AM
Mike, what they do to the other side is, well, war. What they do to their own people is crap.

Now ask yourself: How much of the stuff in the media before the election was true?

Did the US people vote in a president based on lies in the media, placed there by the very government that rules it?

Think hard before you answer that.

Alex

Mike AI
12-01-2004, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Dec 1 2004, 02:03 AM
Gee, I wonder what old Mikey'd have to say if an incumbent DEMOCRATIC president's administration had manipulated the media that way?

For that matter ... I wonder what Mikey'd have to say about the timing of the actual assult on Falujah if the president had been a Democrat?

Can you hear the screeching about not having the balls to incur casualties just before the election?

There used to be laws/regulations that prohibited "blow-back" (psy-ops reaching U.S. media). There still ought to be.

That's not to say that the U.S. shouldn't engage in ANY kind of operation to confuse or deceive the enemy - but it shouldn't reach this country. Of course, since I question the actions of the Bush Administration in this instance, stand by for a sophmoric (I'm feeling generous tonight) attack on my intelligence and my patriotism.

Not everyone is as willing to listen to the U.S. version of Baghdad Bob as you seem to be, Mikey.


Are you kidding? I would be just as excited if this was Clinton doing it. While I do not like the policies of Democrats, they are still my Countryman. Doing whatever is needed to destroy our enemies - I would be supportive of!


I was NOT happy that Bush did not finish off Fallujah the first time we were in there. There is no doubt in my mind he was playing politics with this. However, the reality is he had no other choice. Because of the media, and the anti-war liberals, Bush could not give them any ammuniton to derail his re-election.

The idea of this pisses me off, but if that is what it took for Bush to win, then I can live with short term setbacks for long term gains. Waiting to root out the bad guys in Fallujah until after election is the price we must pay for living in a free country where a small group of blame-America-first, never use military, with their supporters in the media would do ANYTHING to derail Bush's reelection.



It is kinda depressing that this country cannot be united when it comes to wars with foreign enemies - and since it is not - then Bush had to do what he had to do.

All Presidents have done it, including Clinton in the reverse.

Anytime Politics comes ahead of National Interests - it ticks me off. But I am much happier with Bush being relected - there is no doubt he will prosecute this war more agressively then Kerry would.

Mike AI
12-01-2004, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by RawAlex@Dec 1 2004, 09:20 AM
Mike, what they do to the other side is, well, war. What they do to their own people is crap.

Now ask yourself: How much of the stuff in the media before the election was true?

Did the US people vote in a president based on lies in the media, placed there by the very government that rules it?

Think hard before you answer that.

Alex


Alex I think the American people voted for a President in SPITE of all the lies, and misinformation, and propaganda from the liberal media.

The last few months of the elections the coverage from the mainstream media was so tilted towards Kerry it was obvious for all to see.

rhymer
12-01-2004, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by Mike AI+Dec 1 2004, 08:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike AI @ Dec 1 2004, 08:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-RawAlex@Dec 1 2004, 09:20 AM
Mike, what they do to the other side is, well, war. What they do to their own people is crap.

Now ask yourself: How much of the stuff in the media before the election was true?

Did the US people vote in a president based on lies in the media, placed there by the very government that rules it?

Think hard before you answer that.

Alex


Alex I think the American people voted for a President in SPITE of all the lies, and misinformation, and propaganda from the liberal media.

The last few months of the elections the coverage from the mainstream media was so tilted towards Kerry it was obvious for all to see. [/b][/quote]
Sure was. Especially Fox. I just got so tired of their endless liberal ranting. It was sickening. Thank God cooler heads prevailed and the real truth triumphed.

PornoDoggy
12-01-2004, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by Mike AI@Dec 1 2004, 11:21 AM
Are you kidding? I would be just as excited if this was Clinton doing it. While I do not like the policies of Democrats, they are still my Countryman. Doing whatever is needed to destroy our enemies - I would be supportive of!


I was NOT happy that Bush did not finish off Fallujah the first time we were in there. There is no doubt in my mind he was playing politics with this. However, the reality is he had no other choice. Because of the media, and the anti-war liberals, Bush could not give them any ammuniton to derail his re-election.

The idea of this pisses me off, but if that is what it took for Bush to win, then I can live with short term setbacks for long term gains. Waiting to root out the bad guys in Fallujah until after election is the price we must pay for living in a free country where a small group of blame-America-first, never use military, with their supporters in the media would do ANYTHING to derail Bush's reelection.



It is kinda depressing that this country cannot be united when it comes to wars with foreign enemies - and since it is not - then Bush had to do what he had to do.

All Presidents have done it, including Clinton in the reverse.

Anytime Politics comes ahead of National Interests - it ticks me off. But I am much happier with Bush being relected - there is no doubt he will prosecute this war more agressively then Kerry would.
Mikey, you are as partisan as they come, so forgive me if I remain somewhat cynical about your willingness to have supported President Clinton if he said that breathing is good for you.

As far as the crap about being united in war - read a little history. With the single solitary exception of World War II, there has been significant disent over every single solitary foreign war both before and during the conflict. Much of New England was bitterly opposed to the war of 1812; that noted anti-American Abraham Lincoln delivered scathing speeches on the floor of the House over the Mexican war; and even regarding WWII, the political predecessors of your beloved neo-cons fought every single effort Roosevelt made to prepare for the inevitable. (How much disent would have taken place during World War I without the facist Palmer as Attorney General is open to debate).

It's that whole freedom of expression thing, Mikey ... maybe you can find an 8th grader who just finished an American government civics class to explain it to you.

Your willingness to admit that Bush manipulated the conduct of the war for political purposes, and your complete acceptance of that, is chilling, and completely belies your blatantly "they are still my Countryman" rhetoric.

You are Torone in training, Mikey ... I hope you've bought some land in Montana. You'll need it before you are 45.

RawAlex
12-01-2004, 01:15 PM
It is kinda depressing that this country cannot be united when it comes to wars with foreign enemies - and since it is not - then Bush had to do what he had to do.

Mike, united around WHAT, exactly? If the truth is never told, if reality is manipulated for political reasons, if personal hatred comes before honesty and integrity, then what exactly would the US people be united on?

We can't agree to what is the truth, the government has now admitted to lying or misleading the press for military ends, so how big a jump is it to manipulate it for politcal means?

I suspect that jump was already made.

United with truth. No truth, no uniting.

Alex

rhymer
12-01-2004, 01:56 PM
"It is kinda depressing that this country cannot be united when it comes to wars with foreign enemies - and since it is not - then Bush had to do what he had to do."

There was no foreign enemy. What is so unclear about that? Bush did what he did because of his daddy. You guys are fighting for the Bush family. But it was your choice and now you are paying the price. So sad to see a once mighty nation in such a pickle. It will get worse.

Almighty Colin
12-02-2004, 03:53 AM
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Amid a debate over the use of misinformation by the U.S. military, the Pentagon says it is investigating an October incident in which a Marine spokesman gave CNN misleading information about an attack on the Iraqi city of Falluja.

In an October 14 interview from Iraq, 1st Lt. Lyle Gilbert announced that a major U.S. military operation was under way in Falluja -- three weeks before the offensive that eventually recaptured the city began.

A senior Pentagon official told CNN that Gilbert's remarks were "technically true but misleading." It was an attempt to get CNN "to report something not true," the official said.

CNN management has asked the Pentagon for an official response to a report in the Los Angeles Times that identified Gilbert's comments as a possible case of deliberate misinformation of news outlets. The newspaper reported that the interview was part of a broader effort to manipulate the media to achieve U.S. goals in Iraq.

Pentagon spokesman Lawrence DiRita said U.S. personnel are never allowed to deceive reporters, and he said he is reviewing the circumstances surrounding the Gilbert interview.

"We are looking into reports where people may have gotten more creative than they should have," he said.

Gen. Richard Myers, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has warned commanders not to mix up "information operations" with the dissemination of news to reporters. But some in the military are concerned about blurring clear distinctions among three goals: psychological operations against enemy forces; offering timely and accurate information to reporters; and influencing international audiences.

The interview with Gilbert was unusual. He appeared on air only because military officials contacted CNN and said they had someone ready on the scene to discuss major unfolding developments that night.

"The troops crossed the line of departure. We had artillery fire, prep fire going out," Gilbert said in the October 14 interview. "Aircraft have been moving through the area all day, helicopters providing transport. It's been a pretty uncomfortable time."

The objective, Los Angeles Times reporter Mark Mazzetti said Wednesday, was "to see what the enemy was up to."

"The Pentagon people I spoke to said that the intended audience was the insurgent population around Falluja [who] might think that the U.S. military was coming to get them, and the U.S. military wanted to observe what they did when they thought the U.S. was coming," Mazzetti told CNN's "Newsnight With Aaron Brown."

Military officials said later that the operation was not an attempt to retake the city, just an effort to lay the groundwork for the eventual offensive that began in November.

"As the story developed, we quickly made it clear to our viewers exactly what was going on in and around Falluja," CNN spokesman Matthew Furman said.

The Gilbert interview sheds light on a debate behind the scenes at the Pentagon about the use of information as a weapon in the war in Iraq -- and whether a single battlefield commander should be in charge of both psychological operations and media operations at the same time. Some senior officers who served in the Vietnam War and its aftermath, when the credibility of the military was damaged, have raised concerns about the issue.

"Over time, people just didn't believe what the military was saying, and they fear that if we go down this path, the same thing is going to happen again," Mazzetti said.

A proposal circulated within the Pentagon calls for a new post for a "director of central information" to be established as part of a deeper effort to "counter ideological support to terrorism."

A Pentagon advisory panel warned recently that the military must make an effort to communicate better with the Muslim world. But critics worry that effort is becoming a Madison Avenue-style campaign full of leaflets, broadcasts and government-sponsored "influence" that crosses the line.

Lee
12-02-2004, 05:12 AM
Originally posted by Mike AI@Nov 30 2004, 09:37 PM
"What's at stake is the credibility of people in uniform."
Damn and there i was thinking it was a couple of hundred thousand lives at stake.. how foolish was i lol

Personally, im all for what they are doing, i dont particularly agree with the war in iraq but in order to win it i think they should use ANY means that they can in order to minimize the loss of lives, both American and Iraqi.

Lee
12-02-2004, 05:14 AM
Originally posted by Mike AI@Dec 1 2004, 08:24 AM
Alex I think the American people voted for a President in SPITE of all the lies, and misinformation, and propaganda from the liberal media.
Has there ever been a 'wartime' President who wasnt re-elected?

Lee
12-02-2004, 05:18 AM
Originally posted by RawAlex@Dec 1 2004, 10:16 AM
It is kinda depressing that this country cannot be united when it comes to wars with foreign enemies - and since it is not - then Bush had to do what he had to do.

Mike, united around WHAT, exactly? If the truth is never told, if reality is manipulated for political reasons, if personal hatred comes before honesty and integrity, then what exactly would the US people be united on?

We can't agree to what is the truth, the government has now admitted to lying or misleading the press for military ends, so how big a jump is it to manipulate it for politcal means?

I suspect that jump was already made.

United with truth. No truth, no uniting.

Alex
Alex i think you are missing one thing here..

EVERY government lies, not just the US government, every political party lies, not just the Democrats or Republicans.

In order to hold a political position you have to have several requirements be met, the first of which is that you stop all logical, sensible, honest talk.

I defy you to find ANY government that is in power that has done EXACTLY what it said it would do during the pre-election marketing campaigns.

Almighty Colin
12-02-2004, 07:42 AM
Originally posted by Lee+Dec 2 2004, 05:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Lee @ Dec 2 2004, 05:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mike AI@Dec 1 2004, 08:24 AM
Alex I think the American people voted for a President in SPITE of all the lies, and misinformation, and propaganda from the liberal media.
Has there ever been a 'wartime' President who wasnt re-elected? [/b][/quote]
LBJ decided not to run again during the Vietnam war. That's the only major war, I think.

There really weren't that many opportunities. There only have been a handful of wars that carried through from a first to second term for a president.