Recount coming again in Florida?

[Almighty Colin]

Florida law stipulates that if the vote is within one-half of 1% there is an automatic reount. This is the same law that caused the recount last time (it was not at the prompting of Gore).

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Colin@Nov 2 2004, 03:59 PM
Florida law stipulates that if the vote is within one-half of 1% there is an automatic reount. This is the same law that caused the recount last time (it was not at the prompting of Gore).
Colin,
it's IMPOSSIBLE to recount now,
there is no paper trail anymore,
go and vote for the sake of knowing the process TODAY like the rest of us do
;-)))

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Nov 2 2004, 04:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Nov 2 2004, 04:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Colin@Nov 2 2004, 03:59 PM
Florida law stipulates that if the vote is within one-half of 1% there is an automatic reount. This is the same law that caused the recount last time (it was not at the prompting of Gore).
Colin,
it's IMPOSSIBLE to recount now,
there is no paper trail anymore,
go and vote for the sake of knowing the process TODAY like the rest of us do
;-))) [/b][/quote]
7/28/2004
"Two computer crashes last year destroyed most of the electronic records from recent Miami-Dade County elections. 'Immediately after the elections, the flash cards still exist,'' said Seth Kaplan, a spokesman for the Miami-Dade Department of Elections. ``They could have done a recount.'

8/27/2004 court decision

"This is a tremendous victory. It would mean that the next time there's a squeaker of an election in Florida, voters will know that their votes will be recounted, and the data from the machines will be reviewed," said Ralph G. Neas, PFAWF president. "This decision puts election officials on notice that electronic records must be preserved with as much care as any paper ballot."

[Mike AI]

Gore's problem was that he tried to only have recount in a few counties that were heavy democratic. Should have did it for whole State.

[Jesse_DD]

There is certainly a paper trail here in Orange County. We "connect the arrows" and then that is fed into a computer. Not sure how they are doing it in other Counties.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Jesse_DD@Nov 2 2004, 04:18 PM
There is certainly a paper trail here in Orange County. We "connect the arrows" and then that is fed into a computer. Not sure how they are doing it in other Counties.
I had 4 calls from Republicans in the last 3 hours telling me all bad things about Kerry!
(No calls from Democrats yet)

I say Bush is losing Florida as we speak.

Anyway,
Mike,
REGARDLESS who is our next President,
I'll love you!
;-)))

Be strong....
;-)))

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Nov 2 2004, 04:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Nov 2 2004, 04:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Jesse_DD@Nov 2 2004, 04:18 PM
There is certainly a paper trail here in Orange County. We "connect the arrows" and then that is fed into a computer. Not sure how they are doing it in other Counties.
I had 4 calls from Republicans in the last 3 hours telling me all bad things about Kerry!
(No calls from Democrats yet)

I say Bush is losing Florida as we speak.

Anyway,
Mike,
REGARDLESS who is our next President,
I'll love you!
;-)))

Be strong....
;-))) [/b][/quote]


Serge, if we can make it through 4 years of Carter, we can handle Kerry.

Especially if Republicans keep conrol of Congress.

Serge, I love you too - some of my best friends are liberal. ( I do not think I have any liberal family members, at least not immediate family)

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Nov 2 2004, 05:23 PM

Serge, if we can make it through 4 years of Carter, we can handle Kerry.

Especially if Republicans keep conrol of Congress.
Mike,

My one hope for this election is that Congress goes the opposite way of the presidency. I don't care which way -- just to keep out "social medicine" and higher taxes.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Mike AI+Nov 2 2004, 05:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike AI @ Nov 2 2004, 05:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Nov 2 2004, 04:44 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Jesse_DD@Nov 2 2004, 04:18 PM
There is certainly a paper trail here in Orange County. We "connect the arrows" and then that is fed into a computer. Not sure how they are doing it in other Counties.
I had 4 calls from Republicans in the last 3 hours telling me all bad things about Kerry!
(No calls from Democrats yet)

I say Bush is losing Florida as we speak.

Anyway,
Mike,
REGARDLESS who is our next President,
I'll love you!
;-)))

Be strong....
;-)))


Serge, if we can make it through 4 years of Carter, we can handle Kerry.

Especially if Republicans keep conrol of Congress.

Serge, I love you too - some of my best friends are liberal. ( I do not think I have any liberal family members, at least not immediate family) [/b][/quote]
Mike,
you are younger and stronger,
but I'd still kick your butt and cuase soem bodyly harm when you visit if you insist on calling me liberal!

I am a Republican,
and this si the end of the story!

[KeyGuy]

Originally posted by Colin+Nov 2 2004, 02:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Colin @ Nov 2 2004, 02:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mike AI@Nov 2 2004, 05:23 PM

Serge, if we can make it through 4 years of Carter, we can handle Kerry.

Especially if Republicans keep conrol of Congress.
Mike,

My one hope for this election is that Congress goes the opposite way of the presidency. I don't care which way -- just to keep out "social medicine" and higher taxes. [/b][/quote]
What is the problem with social medicine? Works in Europe. They don't seem to be starving and have vibrant economies.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by KeyGuy@Nov 2 2004, 05:51 PM
What is the problem with social medicine? Works in Europe. They don't seem to be starving and have vibrant economies.
Vibrant economies. That's a good one. Just go do a search in google. I don't have anything to say on the subject that you can't read elsewhere. It's my preference for what kind of world I want to live in. Nothing more that. I don't want to live in a world where everyone collectively pays each other's health care.

[KeyGuy]

Originally posted by Colin+Nov 2 2004, 03:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Colin @ Nov 2 2004, 03:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-KeyGuy@Nov 2 2004, 05:51 PM
What is the problem with social medicine? Works in Europe. They don't seem to be starving and have vibrant economies.
Vibrant economies. That's a good one. Just go do a search in google. I don't have anything to say on the subject that you can't read elsewhere. It's my preference for what kind of world I want to live in. Nothing more that. I don't want to live in a world where everyone collectively pays each other's health care. [/b][/quote]
Why is that? You collectively pay for roads, water, defense, and on and on.
BTW, the standard of living in Europe is pretty high. I don't need to google it, I spend a lot of time there and I do a lot of business there. I just look around.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by KeyGuy@Nov 2 2004, 06:04 PM
Why is that? You collectively pay for roads, water, defense, and on and on.
That's a ridiculous argument. I should support every item in the budget because I support some items in the budget? Do you? Of course not.

As far as your other argument. The US economy is vibrant and has a fantastic 50 year record. It's the world's largest by far. Not even close. The US came out of the 2000 recession long before Europe did. Does that mean that every country in the world should therefore spend money on the same things the US does and in the same proportions?

[KeyGuy]

Originally posted by Colin+Nov 2 2004, 03:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Colin @ Nov 2 2004, 03:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-KeyGuy@Nov 2 2004, 06:04 PM
Why is that? You collectively pay for roads, water, defense, and on and on.
That's a ridiculous argument. I should support every item in the budget because I support some items in the budget? Do you? Of course not.

As far as your other argument. The US economy is vibrant and has a fantastic 50 year record. It's the world's largest by far. Not even close. The US came out of the 2000 recession long before Europe did. Does that mean that every country in the world should therefore spend money on the same things the US does and in the same proportions? [/b][/quote]
No, of course not. But you should maybe look at the distribution of the wealth which is more to the point. I just recently drove through Flint Michigan. Its a damn bomb site. Drive around upstate New York and see all the dead towns and rusting trailer parks. Hang out in Butte, Montana. Take a tour through North Dakota in towns where their Harley Davidson is worth more than their house. I have done all of that. Then tell all those folks about the vibrant economy.

[Dravyk]

Originally posted by Colin@Nov 2 2004, 06:05 PM
8/27/2004 court decision

"This is a tremendous victory. It would mean that the next time there's a squeaker of an election in Florida, voters will know that their votes will be recounted, and the data from the machines will be reviewed," said Ralph G. Neas, PFAWF president. "This decision puts election officials on notice that electronic records must be preserved with as much care as any paper ballot."
10 to 1 the hard drives crash. There will be no backups. A month later a "special team" hired by Governor Bush will release the data recovery info that Dubya won Flordia.

... I'd laugh if it weren't so plausible.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by KeyGuy@Nov 2 2004, 06:25 PM
No, of course not. But you should maybe look at the distribution of the wealth which is more to the point. I just recently drove through Flint Michigan. Its a damn bomb site. Drive around upstate New York and see all the dead towns and rusting trailer parks. Hang out in Butte, Montana. Take a tour through North Dakota in towns where their Harley Davidson is worth more than their house. I have done all of that. Then tell all those folks about the vibrant economy.
I grew up in neighborhoods like that. I was born in North Dakota BTW. I got out. I don't feel it is my responsibility to help lift them out.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Colin+Nov 2 2004, 06:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Colin @ Nov 2 2004, 06:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-KeyGuy@Nov 2 2004, 06:25 PM
No, of course not. But you should maybe look at the distribution of the wealth which is more to the point. I just recently drove through Flint Michigan. Its a damn bomb site. Drive around upstate New York and see all the dead towns and rusting trailer parks. Hang out in Butte, Montana. Take a tour through North Dakota in towns where their Harley Davidson is worth more than their house. I have done all of that. Then tell all those folks about the vibrant economy.
I grew up in neighborhoods like that. I was born in North Dakota BTW. I got out. I don't feel it is my responsibility to help lift them out. [/b][/quote]
It's this simple. I believe I am responsible for my welfare and success. Not the state (code word for "other people").

[KeyGuy]

Originally posted by Colin+Nov 2 2004, 03:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Colin @ Nov 2 2004, 03:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-KeyGuy@Nov 2 2004, 06:25 PM
No, of course not. But you should maybe look at the distribution of the wealth which is more to the point. I just recently drove through Flint Michigan. Its a damn bomb site. Drive around upstate New York and see all the dead towns and rusting trailer parks. Hang out in Butte, Montana. Take a tour through North Dakota in towns where their Harley Davidson is worth more than their house. I have done all of that. Then tell all those folks about the vibrant economy.
I grew up in neighborhoods like that. I was born in North Dakota BTW. I got out. I don't feel it is my responsibility to help lift them out. [/b][/quote]
If they have money, they can spend it and that is just a better distribution of the wealth. You got lucky but not everyone can leave.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by KeyGuy@Nov 2 2004, 06:36 PM
You got lucky
:zoinks:

[KeyGuy]

Originally posted by Colin+Nov 2 2004, 03:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Colin @ Nov 2 2004, 03:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Colin@Nov 2 2004, 06:31 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-KeyGuy@Nov 2 2004, 06:25 PM
No, of course not. But you should maybe look at the distribution of the wealth which is more to the point. I just recently drove through Flint Michigan. Its a damn bomb site. Drive around upstate New York and see all the dead towns and rusting trailer parks. Hang out in Butte, Montana. Take a tour through North Dakota in towns where their Harley Davidson is worth more than their house. I have done all of that. Then tell all those folks about the vibrant economy.
I grew up in neighborhoods like that. I was born in North Dakota BTW. I got out. I don't feel it is my responsibility to help lift them out.
It's this simple. I believe I am responsible for my welfare and success. Not the state (code word for "other people"). [/b][/quote]
But you are not purely responsible for your success. If you think you are, you are kidding yourself. You got a state education for starters. I could go on and on about the benefits you have received. You were born to privilege in a global sense. Your taxes are just payback.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by KeyGuy@Nov 2 2004, 06:40 PM
But you are not purely responsible for your success. If you think you are, you are kidding yourself. You got a state education for starters. I could go on and on about the benefits you have received. You were born to privilege in a global sense. Your taxes are just payback.
State education? Not much of one. I dropped out of high school actually. Pretty much self-educated as far as my elementary education.

I did manage to later work my ass off, takes the SAT'S and get accepted at and eventually graduate from Yale in 1996. One of only two people to do that without an HS diploma in 1996. Paid for most of it myself too.

Believe what you want about luck.

I don't have any problem paying taxes. I just don't want to pay more taxes than I currently do and the same as you, there are certain budget items that I am less than thrilled about. Well, I guess since you are "privileged" you should support your tax money paying for the war in Iraq. Right?

[KeyGuy]

Originally posted by Colin+Nov 2 2004, 03:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Colin @ Nov 2 2004, 03:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-KeyGuy@Nov 2 2004, 06:40 PM
But you are not purely responsible for your success. If you think you are, you are kidding yourself. You got a state education for starters. I could go on and on about the benefits you have received. You were born to privilege in a global sense. Your taxes are just payback.
State education? Not much of one. I dropped out of high school actually. Pretty much self-educated as far as my elementary education.

I did manage to later work my ass off, takes the SAT'S and get accepted at and eventually graduate from Yale in 1996. One of only two people to do that without an HS diploma in 1996. Paid for most of it myself too.

Believe what you want about luck.

I don't have any problem paying taxes. I just don't want to pay more taxes than I currently do and the same as you, there are certain budget items that I am less than thrilled about. Well, I guess since you are "privileged" you should support your tax money paying for the war in Iraq. Right? [/b][/quote]
nope, but that kills people. Universal health care not only keeps people healthy, it creates healthy customers. Iraq does nothing but cost money and put us in peril. You may set me straight, but I would guess your tuition fees never covered the cost of your education.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by KeyGuy@Nov 2 2004, 07:01 PM
You may set me straight, but I would guess your tuition fees never covered the cost of your education.
What do you mean? Tuition is defined as the fees.

[wig]

Originally posted by Colin+Nov 2 2004, 06:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Colin @ Nov 2 2004, 06:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-KeyGuy@Nov 2 2004, 06:36 PM
You got lucky
:zoinks: [/b][/quote]
Colin,

I'll give you credit, my friend. You have the patience and humility of a saint.

:wnw:

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by wig+Nov 2 2004, 07:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (wig @ Nov 2 2004, 07:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Colin@Nov 2 2004, 06:37 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-KeyGuy@Nov 2 2004, 06:36 PM
You got lucky
:zoinks:
Colin,

I'll give you credit, my friend. You have the patience and humility of a saint.

:wnw: [/b][/quote]


And a big brain....

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by KeyGuy@Nov 2 2004, 07:01 PM
Universal health care not only keeps people healthy, it creates healthy customers. Iraq does nothing but cost money and put us in peril.
Your statement was "What is the problem with social medicine? Works in Europe. They don't seem to be starving and have vibrant economies."

That's a non sequitur. What does social medicine have to do with starving and "vibrant economies". I feel like you're debating all over the place - maybe debating some blanket liberal vs. conservative thing in your mind but the problem is I am neither.

Let's stick to the argument instead of dozens of unrelated side issues.

I said that I don't want to live in a world where everyone collectively pays each other's health care. You responded by stating that we collectively pay for roads, water, defense.
Again, another non sequitur. But that is your argument. Not mine. If you believe that someone shouldn't oppose state health care BECAUSE we collectively pay for roads, water, and defense then why is it ok to oppose whatever you want and not what I want following that same logic?

[Almighty Colin]

Mike, Wig.

Jeez, thanks. Man, I'm lucky to have you guys as friends.

[wig]

Originally posted by Mike AI+Nov 2 2004, 07:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike AI @ Nov 2 2004, 07:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by wig@Nov 2 2004, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by Colin@Nov 2 2004, 06:37 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-KeyGuy@Nov 2 2004, 06:36 PM
You got lucky
:zoinks:
Colin,

I'll give you credit, my friend. You have the patience and humility of a saint.

:wnw:


And a big brain.... [/b][/quote]
the real genius in my book.

but, it is his manner that most impresses me.

[wig]

Originally posted by Colin@Nov 2 2004, 07:18 PM
Mike, Wig.

Jeez, thanks. Man, I'm lucky to have you guys as friends.
You are welcome, bro. feeling is mutual.

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Mike AI+Nov 2 2004, 08:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike AI @ Nov 2 2004, 08:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by wig@Nov 2 2004, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by Colin@Nov 2 2004, 06:37 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-KeyGuy@Nov 2 2004, 06:36 PM
You got lucky
:zoinks:
Colin,

I'll give you credit, my friend. You have the patience and humility of a saint.

:wnw:


And a big brain.... [/b][/quote]
Colin's my favorite genius! :inlove:

[KeyGuy]

Originally posted by Colin+Nov 2 2004, 04:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Colin @ Nov 2 2004, 04:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-KeyGuy@Nov 2 2004, 07:01 PM
Universal health care not only keeps people healthy, it creates healthy customers. Iraq does nothing but cost money and put us in peril.
Your statement was "What is the problem with social medicine? Works in Europe. They don't seem to be starving and have vibrant economies."

That's a non sequitur. What does social medicine have to do with starving and "vibrant economies". I feel like you're debating all over the place - maybe debating some blanket liberal vs. conservative thing in your mind but the problem is I am neither.

Let's stick to the argument instead of dozens of unrelated side issues.

I said that I don't want to live in a world where everyone collectively pays each other's health care. You responded by stating that we collectively pay for roads, water, defense.
Again, another non sequitur. But that is your argument. Not mine. If you believe that someone shouldn't oppose state health care BECAUSE we collectively pay for roads, water, and defense then why is it ok to oppose whatever you want and not what I want following that same logic? [/b][/quote]
Well, it certainly is not a non sequitur. You are afraid of universal health care because you don't want to pay more tax, ergo the economy suffers. I said the European economies are just fine with health care. Verbosity does not win arguments. Genius? Maybe.... Obtuse? Certainly.

[wig]

Is KeyGuy the 3rd version of you know who?

[Peaches]

Originally posted by wig@Nov 2 2004, 08:54 PM
Is KeyGuy the 3rd version of you know who?
I suspect it is.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by KeyGuy@Nov 2 2004, 07:40 PM
Well, it certainly is not a non sequitur. You are afraid of universal health care because you don't want to pay more tax, ergo the economy suffers. I said the European economies are just fine with health care.
I never said that I oppose "universal health care" BECAUSE I don't want higher taxes. I said that I oppose higher taxes AND "universal health care". I favor a smaller government in general. I believe more in that principle that people should be responsible for their own welfare more than the idea that they should be responsible for each other's welfare. Which countries are "fine" or not means nothing to me and is unrelated to my reason above. I really don't have anything original to say on the subject. Haven't you already had this debate hundreds of times with all the same reasons on both sides? I know I have.

[*KK*]

I'm still trying to figure out just what it is that KeyGuy defines as a vibrant economy --

[KeyGuy]

Originally posted by Colin+Nov 2 2004, 04:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Colin @ Nov 2 2004, 04:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-KeyGuy@Nov 2 2004, 07:40 PM
Well, it certainly is not a non sequitur. You are afraid of universal health care because you don't want to pay more tax, ergo the economy suffers. I said the European economies are just fine with health care.
I never said that I oppose "universal health care" BECAUSE I don't want higher taxes. I said that I oppose higher taxes AND "universal health care". I favor a smaller government in general. I believe more in that principle that people should be responsible for their own welfare more than the idea that they should be responsible for each other's welfare. Which countries are "fine" or not means nothing to me and is unrelated to my reason above. I really don't have anything original to say on the subject. Haven't you already had this debate hundreds of times with all the same reasons on both sides? I know I have. [/b][/quote]
I have but it is inevitable. It is only a question of time.

[KeyGuy]

Originally posted by *KK*@Nov 2 2004, 05:05 PM
I'm still trying to figure out just what it is that KeyGuy defines as a vibrant economy --
When you live in one, you know it. If you have to ask, it is not. It is not all about numbers. They can be massaged.

[KeyGuy]

Originally posted by wig@Nov 2 2004, 04:54 PM
Is KeyGuy the 3rd version of you know who?
Aw shucks, you guys are so perceptive. I am only surprised at how long it took. But I have noticed the Alexa numbers on this board have crashed and burned, but I suppose that is not important since only a few post here anyway. I just love rubbing elbows with "rich" people.
You guys crack me up.

BTW, what happened to Gonzo? He invited me here in the first place.