who here is gonna be sad when GW loses? [Archive]

Mike AI

10-12-2004, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Oct 12 2004, 05:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Oct 12 2004, 05:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mike AI@Oct 11 2004, 09:24 PM
Bush is going to win.

If he loses, I will not be sad, but concerned.

Those people threatening to leave the Country never do - there was a bunch of that in 2000. They must be flip-floppers! hahaha
..and I wish they ALL left. Fuckin' lefties!
;-) [/b][/quote]
It certainly would make the US more productive.

We should keep a few around, in colleges, and in museums so we can observe their wierd behaviors, and for entertainment purposes....

:lol:

RawAlex

10-12-2004, 10:30 AM

Without your so-called "lefties", there would be no check or balance in your system, and you would all e out of business, forced to church on Sunday, and would be listening to sermons from pastor ashclown.

Alex

Mike AI

10-12-2004, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by RawAlex@Oct 12 2004, 09:31 AM
Without your so-called "lefties", there would be no check or balance in your system, and you would all e out of business, forced to church on Sunday, and would be listening to sermons from pastor ashclown.

Alex
No doubt about that.... Who else would be making please for the UN, and others to observe our elections, and demand they have the power of international law behind them.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=...ers_1&printer=1 (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&u=/ap/20041012/ap_on_el_pr/un_us_election_observers_1&printer=1)

This ticks me off more then anything else. These are the people who are undercutting our national Soverignty!

JoesHO

10-12-2004, 11:01 AM

Fact is, bush has done more to harm our soveriewgnty by his isolationist methods, than anyone in history....

also do you think when he loses it will be good in the history books for him to have single handedly been the only prsident that had a decrease in jobs EVERY year he was president?

I remeber the day when the people that were on the "right side were the ones writing bills for the constitution that protected our freedoms, now it seems they have decided to take them all back?

Mike AI

10-12-2004, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by JoesHO1@Oct 12 2004, 10:02 AM
Fact is, bush has done more to harm our soveriewgnty by his isolationist methods, than anyone in history....

also do you think when he loses it will be good in the history books for him to have single handedly been the only prsident that had a decrease in jobs EVERY year he was president?

I remeber the day when the people that were on the "right side were the ones writing bills for the constitution that protected our freedoms, now it seems they have decided to take them all back?
Joe, no disrespect - but you are ignorant.

The economy was heading south BEFORE Bush took office. Add 9-11 on top of this recession, and it is clear to see what happened with economy.

Bush's policies prevented the problem from getting worse, and has allowed the economy to recover and become strong.

Don't beleive me, read what the Nobel Prize winner for economics says in the news today!

Isolationists?? Just because France and Germany do not go along with us? Did you see the documents from the oil for food program? Saddam was paying these people off to support him, and block the US.

Bush did everything humanly possible to bring our traditional allies with us. He went to the UN, and did all the pandering the left wanted - that is why Kerry and others voted FOR the resolution backing him.

Are you just trying to re-write history? The facts are clear.

Bush has made plenty of mistakes - there is a lot to attack him for, but your regurgitating talking liberal talking points makes you look like a sheep.

Baaaaah Baaaaah!

Winetalk.com

10-12-2004, 11:28 AM

Baaaaah Baaaaah!

ditto!!!

grimm

10-12-2004, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by Mike AI@Oct 12 2004, 07:26 AM

also do you think when he loses it will be good in the history books for him to have single handedly been the only prsident that had a decrease in jobs EVERY year he was president?

I remeber the day when the people that were on the "right side were the ones writing bills for the constitution that protected our freedoms, now it seems they have decided to take them all back?
Joe, no disrespect - but you are ignorant.

The economy was heading south BEFORE Bush took office. Add 9-11 on top of this recession, and it is clear to see what happened with economy.

Bush's policies prevented the problem from getting worse, and has allowed the economy to recover and become strong.

Bush did everything humanly possible to bring our traditional allies with us. He went to the UN, and did all the pandering the left wanted - that is why Kerry and others voted FOR the resolution backing him.

Are you just trying to re-write history? The facts are clear.

>Which ones? one thing that is undeniable is that nothing is clear

Bush has made plenty of mistakes - there is a lot to attack him for, but your regurgitating talking liberal talking points makes you look like a sheep.

>and vice versa

Baaaaah Baaaaah! [/quote]
i cant wait for the election to end, so all this political bullshit can be stored away for 4 more years and we can actually talk about things that matter

gigi

10-12-2004, 12:08 PM

We're major wussies here in Canada...I've been seeing the US campaign ads on tv and they are 'harsh' compare to how canadian politicians campaign....I don't think I've ever seen a canadian campaign based solely on discrediting other candidates...but that's what I'm seeing during this US election. What ever happened to telling the people what YOU would do if elected?

I dunno.....right now, all I see is a very strong Canadian dollar, and....it hurts me to go cash my US checks every week. :ph34r:

Peaches

10-12-2004, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by grimm@Oct 12 2004, 11:56 AM
i cant wait for the election to end, so all this political bullshit can be stored away for 4 more years and we can actually talk about things that matter
:wnw: :wnw: :wnw:

Rolo

10-12-2004, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by gigi@Oct 12 2004, 08:09 AM
I dunno.....right now, all I see is a very strong Canadian dollar, and....it hurts me to go cash my US checks every week. :ph34r:
I have not seen anything from Kerry, which would suggest that he will try and make the dollar much stronger than today...

Rolo

10-12-2004, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by grimm@Oct 12 2004, 07:56 AM
i cant wait for the election to end, so all this political bullshit can be stored away for 4 more years and we can actually talk about things that matter
Yes, like what stupid things Kerry will be saying as President, and then the movie Michael Moore will be making about how Kerry is skull, and nothing have changed :-)))

pushpills

10-12-2004, 04:50 PM

elections are great, everyone has an opinion, and almost no one takes the time to investigate the issue and the "other side" of the issue they have a strong opinion on

almost everyone is either

A. only partially informed on the issue they are blabbering on about
B. incorrectly informed on the issue they are blabbering on about
C. quoting someone else who is either partially or incorrectly informed on the issue they are blabbering on about.

the reason I used .'s is because B*) without the * turns to B)

JoesHO

10-12-2004, 04:56 PM

ALL TIME RECORD DEFICIT, AND JOBS LOST.... cant make it any clearer than that! :salute:

RawAlex

10-12-2004, 05:26 PM

Rolo, I think that while Kerry has not talked about trying to raise the value of the US dollar, it is very likely that a "regime change" in the US will have significant economic repercussions that might actually lead to the dollar increasing in value.

Bush's policies economically have been one of isolationism, taxing and blocking imports, even when this is obiously against trade agreements that the US has signed. Ask the Canadian softwood lumber producers about that. It hasn't even been good for the US, as the blocking of Canadian lumber has added thousands of dollars to the costs of new homes in the US.

Bush has attempted to use these blocks and a falling US dollar to create new production jobs in the US and force the economy forward. it hasn't really worked all that well, jobs are gained on the lower ends of the wage scales, while higher paying jobs (such as dock workers, importers, warehousing, etc) are lost. It has also lead to many goods being most costly, as the shift in the exchange rate has made it more expensive to buy electronics and such overseas.

It is very complex, and it is very hard to assign specific cause and effect, but even with tax cuts and the lowest US dollar in probably 20 years, things are still moving sluggishly.

Proof once again that "voodoo economics" don't really work, I guess.

Bush won't be missed, and the unemployment won't be missed either.

Alex

pushpills

10-12-2004, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by JoesHO1@Oct 12 2004, 02:57 PM
ALL TIME RECORD DEFICIT, AND JOBS LOST.... cant make it any clearer than that! :salute:
Joe, I like you, but you're not very smart.

Mike AI

10-12-2004, 06:14 PM

Originally posted by RawAlex@Oct 12 2004, 04:27 PM
Rolo, I think that while Kerry has not talked about trying to raise the value of the US dollar, it is very likely that a "regime change" in the US will have significant economic repercussions that might actually lead to the dollar increasing in value.

Bush's policies economically have been one of isolationism, taxing and blocking imports, even when this is obiously against trade agreements that the US has signed. Ask the Canadian softwood lumber producers about that. It hasn't even been good for the US, as the blocking of Canadian lumber has added thousands of dollars to the costs of new homes in the US.

Bush has attempted to use these blocks and a falling US dollar to create new production jobs in the US and force the economy forward. it hasn't really worked all that well, jobs are gained on the lower ends of the wage scales, while higher paying jobs (such as dock workers, importers, warehousing, etc) are lost. It has also lead to many goods being most costly, as the shift in the exchange rate has made it more expensive to buy electronics and such overseas.

It is very complex, and it is very hard to assign specific cause and effect, but even with tax cuts and the lowest US dollar in probably 20 years, things are still moving sluggishly.

Proof once again that "voodoo economics" don't really work, I guess.

Bush won't be missed, and the unemployment won't be missed either.

Alex

AND Edwards and Kerry will cure Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, and allow people like Christpher Reve to get out of his wheel chair and WALK!!!

AMEN!!

I do not know how we have survived without these guys in power?!?!?!

Alex, be honest - you want Kerry to win so I am taxed as much as you....

JoesHO

10-12-2004, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by pushpills+Oct 12 2004, 01:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (pushpills @ Oct 12 2004, 01:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-JoesHO1@Oct 12 2004, 02:57 PM
ALL TIME RECORD DEFICIT, AND JOBS LOST.... cant make it any clearer than that! :salute:
Joe, I like you, but you're not very smart. [/b][/quote]
haha LOL I been told that exact line before a time or two LOL

Winetalk.com

10-12-2004, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by pushpills+Oct 12 2004, 04:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (pushpills @ Oct 12 2004, 04:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-JoesHO1@Oct 12 2004, 02:57 PM
ALL TIME RECORD DEFICIT, AND JOBS LOST.... cant make it any clearer than that! :salute:
Joe, I like you, but you're not very smart. [/b][/quote]
Joe,
which deficit?

Trade? Budget?
and talking about records,
what are they % of GNP and how that compares to average?

Answer please or I'll agree with Steve.

Can you show some intelligence insteaD JUST BEING A FUCKIN' PARROT LIKE Meni?

Winetalk.com

10-12-2004, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by Mike AI+Oct 12 2004, 05:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike AI @ Oct 12 2004, 05:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-RawAlex@Oct 12 2004, 04:27 PM
Rolo, I think that while Kerry has not talked about trying to raise the value of the US dollar, it is very likely that a "regime change" in the US will have significant economic repercussions that might actually lead to the dollar increasing in value.

Bush's policies economically have been one of isolationism, taxing and blocking imports, even when this is obiously against trade agreements that the US has signed. Ask the Canadian softwood lumber producers about that. It hasn't even been good for the US, as the blocking of Canadian lumber has added thousands of dollars to the costs of new homes in the US.

Bush has attempted to use these blocks and a falling US dollar to create new production jobs in the US and force the economy forward. it hasn't really worked all that well, jobs are gained on the lower ends of the wage scales, while higher paying jobs (such as dock workers, importers, warehousing, etc) are lost. It has also lead to many goods being most costly, as the shift in the exchange rate has made it more expensive to buy electronics and such overseas.

It is very complex, and it is very hard to assign specific cause and effect, but even with tax cuts and the lowest US dollar in probably 20 years, things are still moving sluggishly.

Proof once again that "voodoo economics" don't really work, I guess.

Bush won't be missed, and the unemployment won't be missed either.

Alex

AND Edwards and Kerry will cure Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, and allow people like Christpher Reve to get out of his wheel chair and WALK!!!

AMEN!!

I do not know how we have survived without these guys in power?!?!?!

Alex, be honest - you want Kerry to win so I am taxed as much as you.... [/b][/quote]
Mike,
isn't he dead because of Bush?
;-))

and YES, Kerry will be good for bio research and alternative fuels stocks
;_))

RawAlex

10-13-2004, 01:23 AM

Mike, Kerry won't make choices on medicine and research based on religeous beliefs, which is important. There is no sane reason why the southern born again christian minority should be setting policy for everyone.

"Superman would walk again" is a brave statement - but you can be sure that would never have walked as long as Bush and his ilk were in office. They will never allow what their religeon considers "playing god".

I don't have an opinion one way or another on the subject, except to say that I would like the choices to be made on good science, not the interpretations of a 2000+ year old book.

I personally hope you are taxed zero dollars. I hate paying tax (and I work regularly to avoid paying any more than needed), and any tax increases you are going to see if because of Bush, not anyone else. The debt is up, costs are up, and government income is down. Go figure.

Kerry will get in, there will be a tax increase, and you all will yell about "tax and spend liberals", not remembering that the war mongering conservative dude was the one that ran up the tab then left the party before it the bill came.

Alex

Mike AI

10-13-2004, 01:34 AM

Originally posted by RawAlex@Oct 13 2004, 12:24 AM
Mike, Kerry won't make choices on medicine and research based on religeous beliefs, which is important. There is no sane reason why the southern born again christian minority should be setting policy for everyone.

"Superman would walk again" is a brave statement - but you can be sure that would never have walked as long as Bush and his ilk were in office. They will never allow what their religeon considers "playing god".

I don't have an opinion one way or another on the subject, except to say that I would like the choices to be made on good science, not the interpretations of a 2000+ year old book.

I personally hope you are taxed zero dollars. I hate paying tax (and I work regularly to avoid paying any more than needed), and any tax increases you are going to see if because of Bush, not anyone else. The debt is up, costs are up, and government income is down. Go figure.

Kerry will get in, there will be a tax increase, and you all will yell about "tax and spend liberals", not remembering that the war mongering conservative dude was the one that ran up the tab then left the party before it the bill came.

Alex

I tend to lean closer to Bush's posistion in this. I can see a very slippery slope....

I would like to know more REAL medicine on it, facts.... not the rhetoric from either side.

RawAlex

10-13-2004, 01:45 AM

Mike, how can you say you lean to Bush's side, then say "I would like to know more REAL medicine on it, facts.... not the rhetoric from either side." - Bush's position is "my religeon forbids it". No debate, no discussion, no nothing. He is using bible based morals rather than medical information.

Pick one side, please! :D

Alex

Rolo

10-13-2004, 05:08 AM

Originally posted by RawAlex@Oct 12 2004, 01:27 PM
it is very likely that a "regime change" in the US will have significant economic repercussions that might actually lead to the dollar increasing in value.
The deficit will still be there, if Kerry becomes President - sure he will rise taxes, and get extra income, but if he does not cut down on goverment spending + make it attractive to invest in the US, then the deficit will still be there. Higher taxes doesn´t solve the fundamental problem with the deficit. Bush´s plan is not any better than Kerry´s plan - the most both creative minds have been able to come up with is who shall be taxed. Also the world will probably see more conflicts, before it gets better... so IMO the dollar will not be worth more than today, actual there is a better chance for it to drop 5-10%, than to gain 5-10%.

Now, if you would really like to get more candian dollars, euros etc. in exchange for US dollars, then vote for someone who will fuck up your countries economy, so they get worse than the US :awinky:

Opti

10-13-2004, 07:10 AM

Originally posted by Rolo@Oct 13 2004, 07:09 PM
Now, if you would really like to get more candian dollars, euros etc. in exchange for US dollars, then vote for someone who will fuck up your countries economy, so they get worse than the US
You might be joking Rolo... but this thought crossed my mind when I voted in Australia last weekend ;-)

JoesHO

10-13-2004, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Oct 12 2004, 04:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Oct 12 2004, 04:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by pushpills@Oct 12 2004, 04:58 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-JoesHO1@Oct 12 2004, 02:57 PM
ALL TIME RECORD DEFICIT, AND JOBS LOST.... cant make it any clearer than that! :salute:
Joe, I like you, but you're not very smart.
Joe,
which deficit?

Trade? Budget?
and talking about records,
what are they % of GNP and how that compares to average?

Answer please or I'll agree with Steve.

Can you show some intelligence insteaD JUST BEING A FUCKIN' PARROT LIKE Meni? [/b][/quote]
actually both Serge, Trade is in in the shitter, as well as budget..

( for all time high though it is budget)

as far as the gross national product percentage comparisson the data for that is not readily available to me, sorry. However I would surmize that the GNP is down considerably in percentage points given all of the indicaters available.

I also believe that the GDP is down as well due to the outsourcing issue.

The Gross National Product (GNP) is the total dollar value of all final goods and services produced for consumption in society during a particular time period. Its rise or fall measures economic activity based on the labor and production output within a country. The figures used to assemble data include the manufacture of tangible goods such as cars, furniture, and bread, and the provision of services used in daily living such as education, health care, and auto repair. Intermediate services used in the production of the final product are not separated since they are reflected in the final price of the goods or service. The GNP does include allowances for depreciation and indirect business taxes such as those on sales and property.

The Gross Domestic Product (GDP) measures output generated through production by labor and property which is physically located within the confines of a country. It excludes such factors as income earned by U.S. citizens working overseas, but does include factors such as the rental value of owner-occupied housing. In December 1991, the Bureau of Economic Analysis began using the GDP rather than the GNP as the primary measure of United States production. This figure facilitates comparisons between the United States and other countries, since it is the standard used in international guidelines for economic accounting.

these are the numbers from 2000 and that is the last data available to me at this time.
GNP per capita: also % of Global GDP % of World Population
USA $10,533 $38 32.9% 4.65%

Japan was the closest in numbers at 13.4% wold population: 2.09%
and china was only at 3.7% world population: 20.84%

it is clear to see that those numbers are very misleading, as we all know Japan could not even loan itself money during 2000 and had 0% interest rate loans going just to encourage spending during that time.

also I may be a parrot, but I can deduce that China is increasing their % and USA is decreasing ours, so how does this make us a stronger nation financially?

JoesHO

10-13-2004, 10:12 AM

unfortunatly this data is done by census, and we will not know the destruction GW has caused until after the fact.

Winetalk.com

10-13-2004, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by RawAlex@Oct 13 2004, 12:46 AM
Mike, how can you say you lean to Bush's side, then say "I would like to know more REAL medicine on it, facts.... not the rhetoric from either side." - Bush's position is "my religeon forbids it". No debate, no discussion, no nothing. He is using bible based morals rather than medical information.

Pick one side, please! :D

Alex
Mike,
congrats,
you are picking religious ignorance over science and research.
Guess what,
whom do you think Torquameda support if he was alive today?
He'd lean toward Bush's position on that as well.

Winetalk.com

10-13-2004, 10:20 AM

Joe,
your economic knowledge is less than of a good 5th grade student,
sorry to say that,
I only came to this conclusion after reading your post.

JoesHO

10-13-2004, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Oct 13 2004, 06:21 AM
Joe,
your economic knowledge is less than of a good 5th grade student,
sorry to say that,
I only came to this conclusion after reading your post.
:salute: it is a good thing I can speak well then huh ! LOL

do you think GW even knows the answear I provided?

Mike AI

10-13-2004, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Oct 13 2004, 09:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Oct 13 2004, 09:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-RawAlex@Oct 13 2004, 12:46 AM
Mike, how can you say you lean to Bush's side, then say "I would like to know more REAL medicine on it, facts.... not the rhetoric from either side." - Bush's position is "my religeon forbids it". No debate, no discussion, no nothing. He is using bible based morals rather than medical information.

Pick one side, please! :D

Alex
Mike,
congrats,
you are picking religious ignorance over science and research.
Guess what,
whom do you think Torquameda support if he was alive today?
He'd lean toward Bush's position on that as well. [/b][/quote]
I am picking a future where we do not harvest babies for medical use.... Hell if we do it to baby's why not kids. If I need a new kidney maybe I should talk to you Serge, you have a daughter who I am sure has some healthy kidneys.

Think about the implications. Science can do a lot of great things, but it also can lead to terrible things.

Those who think science and MAN is the solutiuon to everything are humanist, I beleive Serge you escaped a country like this already.

Part of Europe's problems now is they have become secularlized...

One reason the US has been so successful is that our Founding Father's beleive in BASIC UNALIENABLE RIGHTS, that are bestowed upon all of us by God. Thus no man, or no Gov't can take these rights away.

If these rights were ordained by men, then men can take them away.

It may sound corny, but it is the basis of our rights - even if God does not exist, the concept that certan rights come from a higher being is a wonderful concept.

Serge, I do not expect you or Alex to understand this concept...

As far as Torquameda, I have one thing to say.....

"Send in the Nuns....."

:yowsa: :yowsa:

Mike AI

10-13-2004, 10:41 AM

Oh and Serge, I beleive the sanctity of all human life....

I doubt Torquameda did....

Winetalk.com

10-13-2004, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by Mike AI@Oct 13 2004, 09:40 AM

I am picking a future where we do not harvest babies for medical use.... Hell if we do it to baby's why not kids. If I need a new kidney maybe I should talk to you Serge, you have a daughter who I am sure has some healthy kidneys.

talking about family members
...and if I need healthy brain,
I'd also rather ask for your granny's than yours
;-))))

Winetalk.com

10-13-2004, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by Mike AI@Oct 13 2004, 09:40 AM

Think about the implications. Science can do a lot of great things, but it also can lead to terrible things.

Mike,
stop talking about Atomic Bomb,
developed by American team of scientists,
this is what put USA over the top,
and not the religious mumbo jumbo you are reffering to, BTW.
This is UNPATRIOTIC!!!!!

How dare you call yourself American????????

Winetalk.com

10-13-2004, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by Mike AI@Oct 13 2004, 09:40 AM

Part of Europe's problems now is they have become secularlized...

when was the last time you've been to Europe?

Who is your source of "European problems"?
Buchanan? Robertson?

Europe are waaaaayyyyyyyy ahead of USA as far as communications are concerned,
and can't care less what religious right thinks of them
;-)))

Winetalk.com

10-13-2004, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by Mike AI@Oct 13 2004, 09:40 AM

One reason the US has been so successful is that our Founding Father's beleive in BASIC UNALIENABLE RIGHTS, that are bestowed upon all of us by God. Thus no man, or no Gov't can take these rights away.

anbd how come their vision came to life ONLY after US led scientists developed the nuclear bomb?

Before that, USA was a small spec on the world's arena...despite of what founding fathers had in mind.

Winetalk.com

10-13-2004, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by Mike AI@Oct 13 2004, 09:40 AM
If these rights were ordained by men, then men can take them away.

It may sound corny, but it is the basis of our rights - even if God does not exist, the concept that certan rights come from a higher being is a wonderful concept.

Serge, I do not expect you or Alex to understand this concept...

I haven't seen God fighting British in 1776,
I was mistaken by thought that it was human being George Washington who fought for those rights and YES,
they were given by the men and med indeed can take them away....
like seizures and freezes of funds, for example, in RICO and drug cases BEFORE one is pronounced guilty by the court of law!

You think God or Founding Fathers had THIS in mind?
Bottos, who had the first hand expereince of being on the recieving end of things,
might disagree....

JoesHO

10-13-2004, 11:49 AM

in fact, I believe the US was a place for people to come to in order to ESCAPE RELIGIOUS persecutions taking place...

when it comes to the environment, bush argues that SCIENCE is his determining factor....

when it comes to life he says science is wrong, and god is the ONLY answear....

problem is that the USA has a freedom called freedom of religion, so one can not and should not apply his own personal beliefs above science when dealing with matters of others health, especally when it comes to a breach of the number one freedom.... life, liberty ,and the pursuiot of happiness.

Winetalk.com

10-13-2004, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by Mike AI@Oct 13 2004, 09:42 AM
Oh and Serge, I beleive the sanctity of all human life....

I doubt Torquameda did....
you do?
Really?

Do you believe in Japanese Human Life had the right to live and not be bombed by
Atomic Bombs like they were in Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

YES or NO would suffice,
before we talk about " sanctity " of human life in Iraq, Iran, North Korea and few other places where we are likely to take military action soon.

HOW EXACTLY YOUR GOD AND YOUR BELIEVES ADDRESS THE ISSUE THAT:
all human life and it's sanctity created equal, but somje american sanctity of life is more equal than the others?

Sharpie

10-13-2004, 12:22 PM

I believe in:

Separation of Church & State

Balanced budget & all the economic benefits it provides

Pay based on skills and experience - and not bias

Equal opportunities for those willing to WORK for them

As many 'Freedoms of choice, as can be rendered without stepping on someone elses Freedoms.

A balance between 'big business who provides so many opportunities - and GREED, EGO, and POWER.

I believe that it is MY body & I should be able to choose how it is used. I should be able to have an abortion if I want, I should be able to choose how I die if applicable.

I have the right to believe in a higher being, or not to believe. I do not want others beliefs shoved on me, or do I have the right to do that to others.

I am lost on gun control - I hate and am afraid of guns & don't know why in God's name, a lot of people want them around. I believe they are dangerous. But, that is me.....Many are hunters or were raised around guns - so, I believe that others have the same right as I do to choose, as long as they do NOT abuse that right. (I wish they had an IQ test for gun owners though ...:-)

I believe in scientific research more than I believe in 'the bible tells me so - and I believe that when science goes too far - both the right and the left will stop it. So, hindering research now for what MIGHT or MIGHT NOT happen in the furure, is bogus.

I believe in political campaigns that do not waste our time and insult our intelligence. Things that happened 30 years ago are not as relevant as things that happened 5 years ago, or views of the future; and the campaign time and commercials should indicate that.

I probably strongly believe in a lot of others things that are not coming to mind - but looking for a qualified candidate who believes as I do...... It certainly is not Bush.... but......... where is he/she?

Winetalk.com

10-13-2004, 12:38 PM

I am tracing IP's as we speak, as I suspect Jerry Fallwel hacked into Mike's acount,
stay tuned!

PornoDoggy

10-13-2004, 12:57 PM

Man, the sheep are loud in this thread ... and the stereophonic balance between left and right is almost perfect.

Nickatilynx

10-13-2004, 12:58 PM

Mat 18:18 - Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Giving explicit authority to the church descended through St.Peter ie RC...the explicit right that what the Church holds true on earth , so shall it be in heaven.

so if the Pope says , bomb the fuck out of japan , God agrees.

;-)))

see "Dogma"

;-)))

Mike AI

10-13-2004, 07:35 PM

Serge I am comfortable in my religious beliefs. I do not care to push them on anyone else. Granny and I are on the same page. My faith is something that evolves from my family.

To think that human beings are the center of the universe, is a scary prospect. What men give, men can take away. Humanism is a dangerous concept.

JoesHO

10-13-2004, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by Mike AI@Oct 13 2004, 03:36 PM
Serge I am comfortable in my religious beliefs. I do not care to push them on anyone else. Granny and I are on the same page. My faith is something that evolves from my family.

To think that human beings are the center of the universe, is a scary prospect. What men give, men can take away. Humanism is a dangerous concept.
Mike, Men take life away now under the guise of the death penalty...

( I am not oppossed to the death penalty btw) I am just saying that men do take life away already in the name of the greater good of mankind...

and many wars have been fought over religion. or better yet, in the name of GOD..

is a loving god that forgives sinners, is that a god of wrath?

( serge please dont ask me to look up anything religious LOL)

Mike AI

10-13-2004, 08:28 PM

Originally posted by JoesHO1+Oct 13 2004, 07:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JoesHO1 @ Oct 13 2004, 07:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mike AI@Oct 13 2004, 03:36 PM
Serge I am comfortable in my religious beliefs. I do not care to push them on anyone else. Granny and I are on the same page. My faith is something that evolves from my family.

To think that human beings are the center of the universe, is a scary prospect. What men give, men can take away. Humanism is a dangerous concept.
Mike, Men take life away now under the guise of the death penalty...

( I am not oppossed to the death penalty btw) I am just saying that men do take life away already in the name of the greater good of mankind...

and many wars have been fought over religion. or better yet, in the name of GOD..

is a loving god that forgives sinners, is that a god of wrath?

( serge please dont ask me to look up anything religious LOL) [/b][/quote]

Joe I am fine wth death penalty.

I also understand that hundred of millions have been killed in the name of God.
The problem with orginized religion is that is a HUMAN endeavour, then it will always be flawed. The more power, more money involved the worse it is.

I am definately for seperation of Church and State. There is no one specific religion that has a monopoly on the truth.

Where do basic human rights come from??

Winetalk.com

10-13-2004, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by Mike AI@Oct 13 2004, 06:36 PM
Serge I am comfortable in my religious beliefs. I do not care to push them on anyone else. Granny and I are on the same page. My faith is something that evolves from my family.

To think that human beings are the center of the universe, is a scary prospect. What men give, men can take away. Humanism is a dangerous concept.
Mike,
now when you are 2 inches away from becoming a preacher,
my mother in law is praying for you as well,
and I say,
GO FOR IT!

Winetalk.com

10-13-2004, 10:14 PM

Originally posted by Mike AI@Oct 13 2004, 07:29 PM

Where do basic human rights come from??
antiquated or modern?

Origins of Rights
Positive human rights follow mainly from the Rousseauianian Continental legal tradition, and are things to which every person is entitled and for which every state is obligated. Examples of such rights (not all are universally agreed upon) include: the rights to education, to a livelihood, to private property, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, to carry guns, and legal equality. Positive rights have been codified in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and in many 20th century constitutions.

Negative human rights follow mainly from the Anglo-American legal tradition, and are rights which denote actions that a government should not take. These are codified in the United States Bill of Rights and the English Bill of Rights and include freedoms of speech, religion and assembly.

There are a number of theories of where rights come from. The theory espoused by the US Declaration of Independence and ingrained in Anglo-American legal thought is that rights arise from natural law. This theory is considered antiquated in moral philosophy.

There are a number of controversies regarding human rights. One is what rights are included as fundamental human rights, or even if there is such a thing. Another controversy is how best to enforce human rights and in particular the relationship between human rights and national sovereignty. One point of view is that human rights are universal and therefore it is proper for any national to attempt to enforce human rights through international courts or domestic law. The opposing view is that having human rights override national sovereignty is a form of imperialism in which powerful countries dictate which rights they consider most important against less powerful countries.

more at
http://www.fact-index.com/h/hu/human_rights.html

Mike AI

10-13-2004, 11:21 PM

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Oct 13 2004, 09:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Oct 13 2004, 09:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mike AI@Oct 13 2004, 06:36 PM
Serge I am comfortable in my religious beliefs. I do not care to push them on anyone else. Granny and I are on the same page. My faith is something that evolves from my family.

To think that human beings are the center of the universe, is a scary prospect. What men give, men can take away. Humanism is a dangerous concept.
Mike,
now when you are 2 inches away from becoming a preacher,
my mother in law is praying for you as well,
and I say,
GO FOR IT! [/b][/quote]

Serge you can choose what you want, I do not judge people based on their religious beliefs. It seems you do.

Winetalk.com

10-14-2004, 01:03 AM

Originally posted by Mike AI+Oct 13 2004, 10:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike AI @ Oct 13 2004, 10:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Oct 13 2004, 09:11 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Mike AI@Oct 13 2004, 06:36 PM
Serge I am comfortable in my religious beliefs. I do not care to push them on anyone else. Granny and I are on the same page. My faith is something that evolves from my family.

To think that human beings are the center of the universe, is a scary prospect. What men give, men can take away. Humanism is a dangerous concept.
Mike,
now when you are 2 inches away from becoming a preacher,
my mother in law is praying for you as well,
and I say,
GO FOR IT!

Serge you can choose what you want, I do not judge people based on their religious beliefs. It seems you do. [/b][/quote]
...and I'll properly spank myself for it,
I promise!
Meanwhile....you'll be spanked even harder, and for ALL Eternity because.....
while you post on porno board and not following 10 commandments,
http://cotac.com/jesus.jpg

Mike AI

10-14-2004, 01:09 AM

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Oct 14 2004, 12:04 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Oct 14 2004, 12:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Mike AI@Oct 13 2004, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Oct 13 2004, 09:11 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Mike AI@Oct 13 2004, 06:36 PM
Serge I am comfortable in my religious beliefs. I do not care to push them on anyone else. Granny and I are on the same page. My faith is something that evolves from my family.

To think that human beings are the center of the universe, is a scary prospect. What men give, men can take away. Humanism is a dangerous concept.
Mike,
now when you are 2 inches away from becoming a preacher,
my mother in law is praying for you as well,
and I say,
GO FOR IT!

Serge you can choose what you want, I do not judge people based on their religious beliefs. It seems you do.
...and I'll properly spank myself for it,
I promise!
Meanwhile....you'll be spanked even harder, and for ALL Eternity because.....
while you post on porno board and not following 10 commandments,
http://cotac.com/jesus.jpg [/b][/quote]

Serge you are presumptous to think you know my religious beliefs. They are unique and my own.

Winetalk.com

10-14-2004, 01:14 AM

Originally posted by Mike AI@Oct 14 2004, 12:10 AM

Serge you are presumptous to think you know my religious beliefs. They are unique and my own.
....herecy!
I don't know them per se,
but I know hoiw close they are to Bush's on the IMPORTANT issues,
you said it yourself,
don't flip flop on me!
;-)))

Mike AI

10-14-2004, 01:21 AM

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Oct 14 2004, 12:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Oct 14 2004, 12:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mike AI@Oct 14 2004, 12:10 AM

Serge you are presumptous to think you know my religious beliefs. They are unique and my own.
....herecy!
I don't know them per se,
but I know hoiw close they are to Bush's on the IMPORTANT issues,
you said it yourself,
don't flip flop on me!
;-))) [/b][/quote]

But it's not all based on RELIGIOUS beliefs. Just because Bush beleives something and attributes it to religion does not mean I do. I have other reason to justify my stances.

I took a few ethics classes in undergrad, including one on medical ethics ( thought it would be a cool job a ethecist on staff at hospital - seems like a long time ago). The real answers for my issues are deeper then cause "God says so".

I am not against abortion.... the only problem I see wth abortion is the wrong people or not enough of the right people are getting them. There seems to be more morons every year.

I am however against abortion in late term, unless its a medical threat to mother.

I do not flip flop Serge. You know I am the more consistent in our relationship. I do change my mind, I do learn lessons, and I have been wrong many times. A man who does not continue to question his stances, and logic is a fool. I however, do not change my mind based on polls, or being popular....

Winetalk.com

10-14-2004, 01:26 AM

Originally posted by Mike AI@Oct 14 2004, 12:22 AM
I have other reason to justify my stances.
and what is YOUR reason to be against stem cell research?
especially in the NEW revelation that you are NOT against abortions....

Winetalk.com

10-14-2004, 01:29 AM

Originally posted by Mike AI@Oct 14 2004, 12:22 AM
I however, do not change my mind based on polls, or being popular....
oh, you don't have to worry about it with me,
I'll make you change your stand based upon LOGIC and historical facts, rather on the popularity polls
;-)))

so....what did you say about European problems due to their secularism?

Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is and shoirt Euros in the futures market?

If you are correct,
you should make a KILLING like Soros did when he shorted UK pound
;-))))

Mike AI

10-14-2004, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Oct 14 2004, 12:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Oct 14 2004, 12:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mike AI@Oct 14 2004, 12:22 AM
I however, do not change my mind based on polls, or being popular....
oh, you don't have to worry about it with me,
I'll make you change your stand based upon LOGIC and historical facts, rather on the popularity polls
;-)))

so....what did you say about European problems due to their secularism?

Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is and shoirt Euros in the futures market?

If you are correct,
you should make a KILLING like Soros did when he shorted UK pound
;-)))) [/b][/quote]

I do not consider England to be part of the main body of Europe, fortunately for them the Channel insulates them somewhat from the taudry influences of Western Europeans.

As far as shorting the Euro, or other forms of pofiting on Europe's problems, I have other investments which I think will have better returns.

However, I do know these things. The European Union has some inherent flaws which are being glossed over now, but may tear it apart. I know that to this day the United States military keeps large military garisons IN Europe. I know the top 4 American companies have a higher value then the entire stockmarket of Germany and France combined. I know the birth rate for arabs in western europe is 5 times that of the average european.

As far as communications, of course they are ahead. Most European countries are the size of Louisiana, with tremendous population density, and the Telco industry in the US has been regulated to much. ( this is also why S. Koreans are spanking the US when it comes to broadband connections).

How much money do you have invested in Europe Serge? IF you had a million dollar to invest, an are looking for returns in 10, 20, 30 years ( long term) would you invest it in the US, or in Europe?