so much for swift boat vets [Archive] - Oprano Adult Industry Forums

sarettah

08-20-2004, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by Peaches+Aug 20 2004, 11:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Aug 20 2004, 11:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-grimm@Aug 20 2004, 11:59 AM
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0820041kerry1.html

whomever is running the bush campaign needs to be fired
Did I miss the part where Bush had anything to do with this? [/b][/quote]
Damn Peaches, I wish you were a surfer....

Cause sometimes I think you could be sold anything...... :nyanya:

Peaches

08-20-2004, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by sarettah+Aug 20 2004, 12:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (sarettah @ Aug 20 2004, 12:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Peaches@Aug 20 2004, 11:15 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-grimm@Aug 20 2004, 11:59 AM
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0820041kerry1.html

whomever is running the bush campaign needs to be fired
Did I miss the part where Bush had anything to do with this?
Damn Peaches, I wish you were a surfer....

Cause sometimes I think you could be sold anything...... :nyanya: [/b][/quote]
I just deal in facts :awinky:

I don't believe what I hear or even much of what I see, I believe what someone has facts to prove to me. I'm probably the worst surfer because I make them show proof of their claims :)

eroswebmaster

08-20-2004, 12:25 PM

This election year is amazing.

You have men disgracing their uniform and a fellow soldier for a man who went awol.

Honor and respect died off with our grandfathers.

Peaches

08-20-2004, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by eroswebmaster@Aug 20 2004, 12:26 PM
This election year is amazing.

You have men disgracing their uniform and a fellow soldier for a man who went awol.

Honor and respect died off with our grandfathers.
IMO, once you've reached the point of being a major candidate for the presidency, you've bought and sold your soul so many times "honor" and "honesty" aren't even in your vocabulary :(

eroswebmaster

08-20-2004, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by Peaches+Aug 20 2004, 08:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Aug 20 2004, 08:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-eroswebmaster@Aug 20 2004, 12:26 PM
This election year is amazing.

You have men disgracing their uniform and a fellow soldier for a man who went awol.

Honor and respect died off with our grandfathers.
IMO, once you've reached the point of being a major candidate for the presidency, you've bought and sold your soul so many times "honor" and "honesty" aren't even in your vocabulary :( [/b][/quote]
I agree...my post was more about the Swift Boat Vets.

RawAlex

08-20-2004, 12:52 PM

Peaches, here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/politics...print&position= (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/politics/campaign/20swift.html?ei=5006&en=e34a9e1ea32b2dd8&ex=1093665600&partner=ALTAVISTA1&pagewanted=print&position=)

How the group came into existence is a story of how veterans with longstanding anger about Mr. Kerry's antiwar statements in the early 1970's allied themselves with Texas Republicans.

Mr. Kerry called them "a front for the Bush campaign" - a charge the campaign denied.

A series of interviews and a review of documents show a web of connections to the Bush family, high-profile Texas political figures and President Bush's chief political aide, Karl Rove.

It's not even a good cover job, I guess they figured when they could make everyone forget that the Enron dude was in the whitehouse making energy policy anything was possible.

Bush sucks. I think even MikeAI knows it now.

Alex

PornoDoggy

08-20-2004, 12:57 PM

Alex, Alex, Alex ... we all know that the New York Times lies (at least, when they say things that can be construed as critical of Bush and the Republicans, or favorable to Kerry and the Democrats).

Arguing with anyone who can read at a 9th-grade level or better that still insists there is no connection between the Bush campaign and the Swift Boat Republicans is like arguing evolution with a creationist - the power of faith trumps both facts and common sense EVERY time.

Peaches

08-20-2004, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by RawAlex@Aug 20 2004, 12:53 PM
Peaches, here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/politics...print&position= (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/politics/campaign/20swift.html?ei=5006&en=e34a9e1ea32b2dd8&ex=1093665600&partner=ALTAVISTA1&pagewanted=print&position=)

How the group came into existence is a story of how veterans with longstanding anger about Mr. Kerry's antiwar statements in the early 1970's allied themselves with Texas Republicans.

Mr. Kerry called them "a front for the Bush campaign" - a charge the campaign denied.

A series of interviews and a review of documents show a web of connections to the Bush family, high-profile Texas political figures and President Bush's chief political aide, Karl Rove.

It's not even a good cover job, I guess they figured when they could make everyone forget that the Enron dude was in the whitehouse making energy policy anything was possible.

Bush sucks. I think even MikeAI knows it now.

Alex
My company is on record for receiving checks from Quickbucks, so I must be involved in Hooper's idownload program, right? :P If one looks hard enough, finding links to just about anything is possible.

Bush isn't any worse than Kerry.

PornoDoggy

08-20-2004, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by Peaches@Aug 20 2004, 12:01 PM
My company is on record for receiving checks from Quickbucks, so I must be involved in Hooper's idownload program, right? :P If one looks hard enough, finding links to just about anything is possible.

Bush isn't any worse than Kerry.
If you are talking about merely having received checks from another company, then the arguement wouldn't wash.

If your company helped another company DEVELOP a nasty thing, and set up some pretty transparent devices to promote it and deny it's nasty-ness, then yup, the arguement would be valid.

sarettah

08-20-2004, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by Peaches@Aug 20 2004, 12:01 PM
My company is on record for receiving checks from Quickbucks, so I must be involved in Hooper's idownload program, right?
No, but once you became aware of the download proggy and continued to promote the program and accept checks from it, then that does make you culpable.

Bush's refusal to condemn the ads outright ends up being tacit approval of the ads.

Since the swift boat ad at this point has been pretty much completely debunked, Bush can no longer credibly claim ignorance as to the ad, it's contents or who is behind it. Laura and George, in their Larry King interview, claimed to be ignorant of the ad even though the controversy surrounding the ad had pretty much dominated the domestic news scene for several weeks at that point. Laura claimed they had not seen the ad. I for one do not believe for a second that they had not seen the ad unless they had purposely switched channels anytime the ad showed up on their TV screen.

Slowly but surely the people in the ad are being exposed for what they are.

The most recent was Thurlow claiming that Kerry didn't deserve one of the medals because the citation for the medal says they were under fire and Thurlow says they were'nt. Well, it seems that Thurlow recieved the same medal for the same incident with the same citation claiming they were under fire. If the citation was wrong, why did'nt he correct it back 30 some d years ago. Further, it was Thurlow who had the duty as Senior person to write up the reports. His claiming that Kerry lied to get the medal would mean that Thurlow also lied (which Thurlow is not admitting to) Thurlow just claims that he didn't know his citation aid "under fire" and if he had known, he wouldn't have accepted the medal. But you don't see him giving it back now, do you ??

Winetalk.com

08-20-2004, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by eroswebmaster@Aug 20 2004, 11:26 AM
This election year is amazing.

You have men disgracing their uniform and a fellow soldier for a man who went awol.

Honor and respect died off with our grandfathers.
:okthumb:

PornoDoggy

08-20-2004, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Aug 20 2004, 01:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Aug 20 2004, 01:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-eroswebmaster@Aug 20 2004, 11:26 AM
This election year is amazing.

You have men disgracing their uniform and a fellow soldier for a man who went awol.

Honor and respect died off with our grandfathers.
:okthumb: [/b][/quote]
I think that may be true.

After all, I believe my grandfather once told my father the exact same thing. :rolleyes:

he was upset about taking God out of the classrooms while putting niggers in the classroom, about turning over the government to the Pope, yada yada yada

eroswebmaster

08-20-2004, 03:01 PM

Originally posted by PornoDoggy+Aug 20 2004, 10:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PornoDoggy @ Aug 20 2004, 10:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Aug 20 2004, 01:17 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-eroswebmaster@Aug 20 2004, 11:26 AM
This election year is amazing.

You have men disgracing their uniform and a fellow soldier for a man who went awol.

Honor and respect died off with our grandfathers.
:okthumb:
I think that may be true.

After all, I believe my grandfather once told my father the exact same thing. :rolleyes:

he was upset about taking God out of the classrooms while putting niggers in the classroom, about turning over the government to the Pope, yada yada yada [/b][/quote]
Well it is probably true with every generation that honor and respect get lost a little bit each time.

I have had time to reflect upon my grandfather, especially after he passed away because my aunt and uncle were relocated to canada because of my uncle's job and my uncle *by marriage* asked me to look in on his parents.

I had spent many summers with my grandparents but had pushed most of that into the back of my mind because I had more "important" things to consider...but listening to Art my uncle's father who had alzheimers talk endlessly about his years in the service and the years he put into his company it opened up a floodgate of memories.

My point being that there once was a time in this country that men went to work because they had to. They went and fought and died for their country because they wanted or needed to.
They don't like to talk about it much, but when they do they speak of their fellow soldiers in such reverent tones, especially those were fallen.

My grandfather was one of those. He was a man who served his country and when he returned home he served his family.

He worked the oil fields of the Panhandle of Texas and my father tells me of days his father would come home and the skin on his hands were splitting open and he could barely move his fingers.

But he got back up the next morning, went out in the freezing cold, or the blistering heat and did it again.

He did this for over 25 years, he got his watch and his measely pension.

It was this job that eventually took his life. The years he spent out in that sun gave him skin cancer, but he still lived a full life. He died at 86 years old, and had survived the cancer for more than 15 years. The day before he was told that it had returned and the cancer spread to his brain he was on his ladder fixing something on his roof.

There aren't too many real men left in this world.

Peaches

08-20-2004, 03:11 PM

I was lucky: My grandfather made millions off basically slave labor, bought politicians, screwed over business partners, did every thing he could to undermine his son in laws, had PI's check out every guy his granddaughters went out with more than once and threatened more people than I'll ever know with violence and financial ruin.

I'm kinda glad his type of honor and respect in our family stopped when he died :)

PornoDoggy

08-20-2004, 03:23 PM

In every generation there are those who wish to wear sackcloth, sit in the ashes, and sing the "Gloom, despair, and agony on me" lament. I suspect that Ughhh told Grunt (while they sat by the fire in front of the cave) that "these kids have it so soft - we didn't have fire, we didn't have wheels, we didn't have bows..."

It's gone on in every generation. I don't buy it. Not for a fucking minute. "...with every generation ... honor and respect get lost a little bit each time" is probably something that was said as far back as Roman times, and I know that it's been said by almost every generation since the industrial revolution.

The world is different. Some people have trouble accepting that. Some people niavely assume that the "good old days" were better than today - or that they were actually as good as memory makes them out to be.

I don't believe for a minute that there was more REAL honor and respect "ago" than there is today. I have a great deal of respect for my father (WWII) and my grandfathers (WWI).

But seriously ... if you think their generation was any more honorable than today's, you are looking backwards with rose-colored glasses on.

eroswebmaster

08-20-2004, 03:33 PM

PornDoggy if you think there isn't less respect or honor going on today...LOL what was it said earlier about arguing evolution with a creationist.

sarettah

08-20-2004, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by eroswebmaster@Aug 20 2004, 02:34 PM
PornDoggy if you think there isn't less respect or honor going on today...LOL what was it said earlier about arguing evolution with a creationist.
Go to agree with PD onthis one.

It always seems like there is less honor and respect, but imho, it is the generational filters that cause a lot of that.

When you are in your teens, you argue and reject everything your parents and them before you found to be true. You fully believe that your generation alone has discovered the secret solutions to every problem imaginable and view the generations before you as stupid for not being able to see them. This has been true since the beginning of time and will always be true.

Later, as you become more real world educated (if you become more real world educated) you start removing the rose color from the glasses a bit and find yourself agreeing with some of what those before you found to be true but sill feeling that they were stupider than you because they didn't take the action that was so plainly in front of them and would have solved all of their problems.

Introduce having kids of your own. The whole fucking thing changes. All of a sudden you realize what your parents went through. All of a sudden, there is a new appreciation for the things that you so solidly rejected in your teens and twenties.

40 hits. You are now a conservative republican, no matter what you were the rest of your life. You no longer understand "the kids today". Their music ("noise") hurts the ears and it can't be music anyway because you can't understand a fucking thing they are saying. And those clothes, what, you have to do all your shopping at the salvation army ??? And no daughter of min is going out dressed like that, you get upstairs and change right now little Missy becomes a regular part of your vocabulary.

I don't know what comes after that because that is the generational filter I'm living with right now..lol...

If it continues as it has, with each mornings waking I will have new respect for those that came before me, at the tenacity that they displayed to solve problems and at their willingness to overcome adversity in order to take care of their family, friends and world.

And hopefully, when I am gone from this world, those that come after me will remember me the same.

PornoDoggy

08-20-2004, 03:51 PM

I think that what some people percieve as a lack of respect today is that things get said in public that used to only be said in private.

Do you think Democrats today "hate" Bush any more than Republicans hated Wilson, Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy or Johnson, or Democrats hated Hoover, Nixon or Reagan? Do you think that any criticism of the war in Iraq is any less violent than the criticisms of WWI, WWII, Korea or Vietnam? Do you think Enron and the business scandals of today are any more unethical or on any less a grand scale than Teapot Dome? Do you think the gang violence of the 90s was any more violent than the gang violence of the 20s?

Those "honorable" people you are talking about wouldn't have thought a damn thing about not voting (going to school with, etc., etc., ect.) for someone just because they were a Jew or a Catholic. Those "respectful" people you seem to think are so much better than people of today couldn't really understand that there was something wrong with sending a man off to die "for freedom" but denying him the right to vote when he returned from the war. Those "honorable" people you seem so fond of would look the other way if a man beat his wife within an inch of her life for failing to have dinner prepared when he returned home from work.

Spare me that happy-crappy, bro ...

Mike AI

08-20-2004, 03:56 PM

This does not change the fact that Kerry is a weenie, who would say and do anything for political power. He has no convictions what so ever.

Bush has done some things I disagree with, some were stupid, but the man is a LEADER. He beleives in something and does not waiver.

I want a real leader in charge of my country - not someone who is wishy washy, changes their mind, has no convictions. These people cannot make the tough decisions. Look at Clinton.

Kerry's record in the Senate is more important to how he will govern. His voting record is more liberal then Ted Kennedy.

:moon:

sarettah

08-20-2004, 03:56 PM

A nice piece on the swift boats...fairly neutral actually, from newsweek:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5772260/site/newsweek/

Aug. 20 - The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth stopped by NEWSWEEK’s Washington bureau this week to explain their version of what happened in Vietnam 35 years ago and why John Kerry doesn’t deserve three Purple Hearts. None were on the Swift Boat Kerry commanded, but they had charts to illustrate their contention that Kerry’s boat did not come under fire and that two of his wounds were self-inflicted, one when he hurled a grenade at a rice bin too close to his position.

A generation of reporters far removed from any war experience listened respectfully to their story. Between the fog of war and the passage of time, telling the truth has more to do with politics than memory. These men fought; they didn’t come home to a hero’s welcome, and they’ll never forgive Kerry for protesting the war and branding them as war criminals.

One member of the group recalled how each of them had been issued a 90-pound sea bag, and Kerry sacrificed 10 pounds of socks and clean underwear to pack a typewriter. At the end of a long day of patrols, Kerry would sit hunched over his typewriter plugging away at who-knows-what, the fellow said, so secretive it seemed subversive. They never understood this aloof figure, and the day that he testified before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee—April 22, 1971—is as powerful a date to these veterans as the Kennedy assassination. They can tell you exactly where they were when they heard Kerry say he had witnessed war crimes sanctioned by commanders in Vietnam.

The fact that Kerry attributed the breakdown in military discipline to the policymakers in Washington is lost on these men, who take Kerry’s words personally. This is not about Kerry’s performance in Vietnam; it’s what he said when he came home. Kerry has never made extravagant claims about his heroism in Vietnam. He never said his wounds were serious, and he never said he didn’t want to get out of Vietnam. After three wounds, under military rules, he was entitled to ship out, which he did after a combat tour of four months and 12 days. Nothing these so-called Veterans for Truth have come up with contradicts what Kerry has said, but that’s not the point.

.................................................. .........

grimm

08-20-2004, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Aug 20 2004, 08:58 AM
Alex, Alex, Alex ... we all know that the New York Times lies (at least, when they say things that can be construed as critical of Bush and the Republicans, or favorable to Kerry and the Democrats).

Arguing with anyone who can read at a 9th-grade level or better that still insists there is no connection between the Bush campaign and the Swift Boat Republicans is like arguing evolution with a creationist - the power of faith trumps both facts and common sense EVERY time.
hey, ive got a bridge to sell you, too. face it, its not even a good cover up.

is bush going to plead ignorance again?

i can hear it now "theres no way i could pull off a smear campaign, i dont have the faculties"

LOL

oh, BTW. Faith? yeah that trumps two pair, thats about it

grimm

08-20-2004, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by Mike AI@Aug 20 2004, 11:57 AM
This does not change the fact that Kerry is a weenie, who would say and do anything for political power. He has no convictions what so ever.

Bush has done some things I disagree with, some were stupid, but the man is a LEADER. He beleives in something and does not waiver.

I want a real leader in charge of my country - not someone who is wishy washy, changes their mind, has no convictions. These people cannot make the tough decisions. Look at Clinton.

Kerry's record in the Senate is more important to how he will govern. His voting record is more liberal then Ted Kennedy.

:moon:
Mike, that is rhetoric, fed to the public. i doubt anyone here has actualy LOOKED UP his voting record, read the bills, seen the riders, etc. Its not nearly ascut and dry and you know it. One bad rider and a good bill tanks.

Bush is a weenie as well. they are both weenies. Bush's lack of judgement, taking a backseat to initiatives he put forth, lack of action ( an intelligence czar? this late?)

Bush has been one step behind the majority of common sense. Hes tanking hard, and that may not be the best thing for our country

RawAlex

08-20-2004, 06:37 PM

Mike, I think the funniest part about all of this is:

They complain about Kerry's military record - and Bush avoided combat (and was effectively AWOL for a year or so) hiding out in the national guard because "Daddy got him in"

They complain about Kerry's voting record - and Bush has never been in a position to actually vote on anything (except maybe to get himself elected!). He just puts out policy papers and looks sad when the republican congress tells him to get stuffed.

it's not really a fair fight, Kerry has lived it - Bush has talked about it.

Your buying the "company line" a little hard.

Alex :yowsa:

Alex

JoesHO

08-20-2004, 07:49 PM

Bring back the liberaals, and lets make some money LOL

PornoDoggy

08-20-2004, 08:48 PM

Originally posted by Mike AI@Aug 20 2004, 02:57 PM
This does not change the fact that Kerry is a weenie, who would say and do anything for political power. He has no convictions what so ever.

Bush has done some things I disagree with, some were stupid, but the man is a LEADER. He beleives in something and does not waiver.

I want a real leader in charge of my country - not someone who is wishy washy, changes their mind, has no convictions. These people cannot make the tough decisions. Look at Clinton.

Kerry's record in the Senate is more important to how he will govern. His voting record is more liberal then Ted Kennedy.

:moon:
I'm going to resist (albeit reluctantly) the temptation to suggest that the level of your political sophistication is best exemplified with the word "weenie", which most Junior High students would think immature.

If John Kerry had turned his considerable talents to business instead of politics, and made himself a couple billion dollars, you'd admire him. As a matter of fact, if John Kerry had lived his life EXACTLY the same way but he was spitting out conservative rhetoric, you'd admire him.

John Kerry holds political positions different from yours. Not content to merely disagree on the issues, you have to find fault with the character of your opponent. That appeals to two types of people - the dumb (which I know you are not), and the lazy.

The simple fact of the matter is, Mikey, you yourself have offered up this (the Swift Boat Republicans) as "proof" that Kerry is unfit at least twice. I suspect that you will bring up anything that you believe discredits Kerry, in almost the exact same way that Meni used to find items to prove that Haliburton conspired to take Stern off the air.

The whole "leadership" thing is such a crock of shit as to be laughable.

George Armstrong Custer was a real leader ... and look what it got him and his men.

SykkBoy

08-20-2004, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by RawAlex@Aug 20 2004, 05:38 PM
Mike, I think the funniest part about all of this is:

They complain about Kerry's military record - and Bush avoided combat (and was effectively AWOL for a year or so) hiding out in the national guard because "Daddy got him in"

They complain about Kerry's voting record - and Bush has never been in a position to actually vote on anything (except maybe to get himself elected!). He just puts out policy papers and looks sad when the republican congress tells him to get stuffed.

it's not really a fair fight, Kerry has lived it - Bush has talked about it.

Your buying the "company line" a little hard.

Alex :yowsa:

Alex
yeah, the same republicans that bitched about Clinton hiding out in England seem to be ok with W being a coward who hid out in the reserves....

Even Clinton admitted on the Daily Show that he and W could both have gone and chose not to, so really shouldn't be talking down about those who did......

Winetalk.com

08-20-2004, 09:11 PM

Winetalk.com

08-20-2004, 09:12 PM

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Aug 20 2004, 07:49 PM

The whole "leadership" thing is such a crock of shit as to be laughable.

I hate when I agree with PD
;-)))

grimm

08-21-2004, 01:57 AM

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Aug 20 2004, 05:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Aug 20 2004, 05:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mike AI@Aug 20 2004, 02:57 PM
This does not change the fact that Kerry is a weenie, who would say and do anything for political power. He has no convictions what so ever.

Bush has done some things I disagree with, some were stupid, but the man is a LEADER. He beleives in something and does not waiver.

I want a real leader in charge of my country - not someone who is wishy washy, changes their mind, has no convictions. These people cannot make the tough decisions. Look at Clinton.

Kerry's record in the Senate is more important to how he will govern. His voting record is more liberal then Ted Kennedy.

:moon:
it's ok, even if it's true,
conservatism produces lots of stuffy air.....

as for leader...Pol Pot was a LEADER,
how often do you wish you were living in Cambodgia under Kmer Rouge and it's glorious LEADER?

or

would you rather be an intellectual living under LEADER Stalin's rule

or

Jew living under LEADER Hitler?

In our complicated world just being a leader isn't enough. [/b][/quote]
BINGO! my sentiments exactly.

we dont live in a military state. A strong central leader is not the gol nor necessity of our political system. That is why we have a system of checks and balances.

Too much leadership leads to Tyranny.

dig420

08-21-2004, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by grimm@Aug 21 2004, 12:58 AM

BINGO! my sentiments exactly.

we dont live in a military state. A strong central leader is not the gol nor necessity of our political system. That is why we have a system of checks and balances.

Too much leadership leads to Tyranny.
which makes all these pro-Bush 'libertarians' even more ironically hilarious :salute:

love it when the conservatives say 'Look at Clinton!' as if Bush compares favorably in any way with him. All Clinton did was balance the budget and get a hummer, why do the protruding forehead types hate him so much? :lol:

Nickatilynx

08-21-2004, 03:51 PM

Republicans currently argue like fundamental christians do over evolution.

Despite all the evidence they stick to "No, R-n created the world in 7 days"

( Yes , that is what they say , they don't even realise it took 6 , 7th day , R-n rested.)

Oh wait....isn't Bush a fundamental Christian?

;-)))

SykkBoy

08-21-2004, 04:53 PM

I'm sure W lead his fellow frat buddies in college by tapping the keg first taking the first beer bong of the night......

I wonder what he was busy leading when Kerry was leading troops in Vietnam? Maybe he was busy leading panty raids?

As much as I can't stand Kerry because he's not Bush or Nader........

my motto has been: Anybody But Nader, but Bush is slowly creeping into that area as well.....

RawAlex

08-21-2004, 09:08 PM

At the end of the day, people are starting to figure out that Bush family is made up of very sneaky politicos who will stop at nothing to cure the family jinx (one term presidents!). As the truth comes out of this issue, it is way too easy to see who has their hand up the puppet's ass, and it's starting to smell like shit.

"Connect the god-damn dots!"

Alex

RawAlex

08-22-2004, 01:50 AM

The dots are getting easier to connect:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/21/...boat/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/21/edwards.swiftboat/index.html)

Bush advisor appears in the ads.

It's getting really close - this could by itself cost Bush the election!

Alex

PornoDoggy

08-22-2004, 03:27 AM

I think you are being niavely optomistic, Alex.

Some folks who have the intelligence required to see right through this were (and might still be) taken in by it. It should have been plainly obvious from the very beginning that this was nothing more than a repeat of what the did to McCain in 2000. You think those kind of people are going to let a little bit of truth impair their world-view?

When you are so blinded by belief in your particular ideaology (or idiotology) you can very easilly dismiss any attempt to refute the charges as more efforts by the biasedliberalmediaconspiracy to steal the Presidency from GW.

For the record, I think an appropriate response by Senator Kerry should be couched in the exact same terms as President Truman's response to the music critic of a Washington newspaper. (for far more valid reasons).

I have to admit, though, I feel sorry for President Bush. He doesn't get the respect he deserves. After all, he did defend the Mexican-American border in missions that are obvously so fucking sensitive and secret that nobody can yet say where he was for the last year (+/-) of his valiant service in the reserves.

Evil Chris

08-22-2004, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by RawAlex@Aug 22 2004, 01:51 AM
The dots are getting easier to connect:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/21/...boat/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/21/edwards.swiftboat/index.html)

Bush advisor appears in the ads.

It's getting really close - this could by itself cost Bush the election!

Alex
Alex, don't give the voting populace so much credit.

This story will be forgotten in 3 weeks maximum.

Almighty Colin

08-22-2004, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Aug 20 2004, 02:52 PM
I think that what some people percieve as a lack of respect today is that things get said in public that used to only be said in private.

Do you think Democrats today "hate" Bush any more than Republicans hated Wilson, Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy or Johnson, or Democrats hated Hoover, Nixon or Reagan? Do you think that any criticism of the war in Iraq is any less violent than the criticisms of WWI, WWII, Korea or Vietnam? Do you think Enron and the business scandals of today are any more unethical or on any less a grand scale than Teapot Dome? Do you think the gang violence of the 90s was any more violent than the gang violence of the 20s?

Those "honorable" people you are talking about wouldn't have thought a damn thing about not voting (going to school with, etc., etc., ect.) for someone just because they were a Jew or a Catholic. Those "respectful" people you seem to think are so much better than people of today couldn't really understand that there was something wrong with sending a man off to die "for freedom" but denying him the right to vote when he returned from the war. Those "honorable" people you seem so fond of would look the other way if a man beat his wife within an inch of her life for failing to have dinner prepared when he returned home from work.

Spare me that happy-crappy, bro ...
Great post, PD!

I don't think the kind of "hate" some have for Bush today is anything like the "hate" that, say, Lincoln experienced from Southern voters or that Truman experienced when some of his own delegates walked out of the Democratic Convention.

Political fighting is quite a bit tamer than it once was. There seem to be no more Hamilton/Burrs.

I think the criticism of the Iraq war is much less than Vietnam or Korea. Korea left Truman the least approved president in history (at the time he left office). Vietnam is so
deeply etched in US history that people who are anti whatever war we're currently in refer to every minor border skirmish as "another Vietnam".

Great call also on 20s gang violence. :okthumb:

These are quiet times in America compared to most of the past few centuries.

grimm

08-22-2004, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Aug 21 2004, 11:28 PM
I think you are being niavely optomistic, Alex.

Some folks who have the intelligence required to see right through this were (and might still be) taken in by it. It should have been plainly obvious from the very beginning that this was nothing more than a repeat of what the did to McCain in 2000. You think those kind of people are going to let a little bit of truth impair their world-view?

When you are so blinded by belief in your particular ideaology (or idiotology) you can very easilly dismiss any attempt to refute the charges as more efforts by the biasedliberalmediaconspiracy to steal the Presidency from GW.

For the record, I think an appropriate response by Senator Kerry should be couched in the exact same terms as President Truman's response to the music critic of a Washington newspaper. (for far more valid reasons).

I have to admit, though, I feel sorry for President Bush. He doesn't get the respect he deserves. After all, he did defend the Mexican-American border in missions that are obvously so fucking sensitive and secret that nobody can yet say where he was for the last year (+/-) of his valiant service in the reserves.
Isnt it odd how flippant we are to see any argument against the current administration as a transparent attempt by the lying media, and at the same time, if you switch the talking head being flogged, the same arguments all of a sudden carry weight?