TGPs skimming off thumb from sponsor gallery

[Hell Puppy]

There's a big brou-ha-ha on a couple of the other boards between a sponsor and a TGP owner, that brings up an interesting issue....

Here's the scenario. Sponsor provides free gallery content for TGP posting as virtually all sponsors do now. Affiliate grabs the content and posts the gallery on his TGPs. These TGPs are thumb based, which means instead of a text link to the gallery it uses a cropped thumb from the gallery to link to the gallery.

Sponsor is making his rounds looking for fraud or whatever and see's the thumb, clicks the thumb and is sent somewhere else instead of to his gallery. Sponsor has a "hissy fit" and bans the affiliate and even goes so far as to get his host to shut him down for using unlicensed content. The TGP is running a skim, and that particular click was redirected to a trade. So the affiliate doesn't see any problem with it.

Added twist: what really set the sponsor off is not only did his thumb re-direct to something other than his gallery, it sent him to some other site that tried to Hooper-ify his system with a toolbar.

Thoughts?

[SykkBoy]

I would have shitcanned the affiliate as well

what if that thumb were going to my competitor's website?
fuck that

run the skim on some text links or simply don't use our thumbs for the skim....

[pushpills]

sponsor should not bitch, obviously was never in any tgp related biz.

too bad the affiliate got fucked, but, rinky dink sponsors will fuck you for whatever they want....it's in the tos after all. (what's the sponsor btw)

[pushpills]

Originally posted by SykkBoy@Aug 11 2004, 12:31 AM
I would have shitcanned the affiliate as well

what if that thumb were going to my competitor's website?
fuck that

run the skim on some text links or simply don't use our thumbs for the skim....
ohh get outa here, almost every tgp skims the thumbnail links.....

how do you think tgps work?

[Dravyk]

Grogan, every time I begin to suspect for a moment that you might have a grasp on things, you show me you still don't have a clue. If the content came from the sponsor, then it can only be used to promote the sponsor. No ifs, ands or buts. Period. Any other use if violation of DMCA.

What? A TGP guy (or even a two-day-old newbie) can't afford to buy 20 pics of their own to make thumbs for the trade scripts? BULLSHIT!!

I'm with you Sykk. I'd lop off his head, jam it on a pike, and parade it around on the boards for all to see. :zoinks:

[chodadog]

You know, until this was brought up on another board, i never even thought of the legal implications. Brings up a lot of licensing issues. I mean, even if a paysite that is using licensed content says it's okay for an affiliate to use it on a skimmed thumb, is the content producer going to be okay with a 4th party benefitting without a license? Doubtful.

Legally speaking, it's definitley not okay, even if it does appear to be a minor issue.

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by pushpills+Aug 11 2004, 01:33 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (pushpills @ Aug 11 2004, 01:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-SykkBoy@Aug 11 2004, 12:31 AM
I would have shitcanned the affiliate as well

what if that thumb were going to my competitor's website?
fuck that

run the skim on some text links or simply don't use our thumbs for the skim....
ohh get outa here, almost every tgp skims the thumbnail links.....

how do you think tgps work? [/b][/quote]
I used to think your ignorance was part of your board persona, but now I wonder

if it's MY COMPANY'S content being used on that site and that skim is going to a competitors website? Fuck THAT! We don't pay for exclusive content so a TGP owner can skim their traffic to a competitor using that content

what about the 2257 implications as well?

[Rolo]

I´m not upto date with court rulings on thumbnails copyright infringement, however didn´t the US Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals say that using thumbnails fell within the copyright law exception of “fair use”? (I think this case was 2-3 years old against ditto.com). So basicly you can use ANY image as thumbnail without owner giving you permission aslong as it is "fair use" (I´m not sure skimming is under fair use, and not so sure a judge will see it as fair use either)?

Now the 2257 issue is another problem, which I´m sure we will know more about once someone has set precedence.

[gonzo]

Nick...you need to fail Sykk and give Grogan a promotion.

[spazlabz]

I have to agree with Sykkboy in a limited way on this one. If you have exclusive content and you provide that content to your affiliates to help them make sales I think it goes without saying that those sales need to be to YOUR site. But if the traffic is being redirected in a traffic trade to another TGP then I would probably let it slide.
Recently here we found an affiliate who had populated a good portion of his TGP with our thumbs and NONE of them pointed to anything even remotely close to one of our galleries or in any way promoting our sites.


spaz :matey:

[gonzo]

This is a good thread I hope to hear more discussion on it.

[Vick]

Hmmm .... Lack of communication

Looking at from both sides

As a TGP owner it's S.O.P.
As a program owner (especially with exclusive content) I want every hit/sale my content is used for, I don't want my promo material associated with or used for hi-jinks (unless they are my own)

If the affiliate was doing big numbers chances are they wouldn't have gotten canned

Couple of simple emails could have went far in rectifying the situation

[mojobill]

Originally posted by gonzo@Aug 11 2004, 05:09 AM
Nick...you need to fail Sykk and give Grogan a promotion.
Bullshit!

If a TGP owner lists a sponsor hosted gallery using their OWN affiliate codes, that gallery SHOULD be exculsive to the sponsor, as should the content.....

Using that content to jerk traffic around aint kosher.....

[pushpills]

Originally posted by fatbaby+Aug 11 2004, 07:06 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (fatbaby @ Aug 11 2004, 07:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-gonzo@Aug 11 2004, 05:09 AM
Nick...you need to fail Sykk and give Grogan a promotion.
Bullshit!

If a TGP owner lists a sponsor hosted gallery using their OWN affiliate codes, that gallery SHOULD be exculsive to the sponsor, as should the content.....

Using that content to jerk traffic around aint kosher..... [/b][/quote]
so, a sponsor should say "We don't want ANY traffic from tgps that skim from thumbnail links..."

Frankly I'd think the sponsor would prefer 40% of those clicks going to their gallery than zero. It's not like the skimmed clicks are going to a different paysite anyway.

[Peaches]

I'm siding with the program owner on this one:

If it's HIS (or her) content, then it should go to their site. Period.

[LadyMischief]

it's not really "jerking" traffic around as opposed to promoting trades and growth on the tgp sites. It can mean the difference between a sponsor's gallery getting 1000 hits or 100,000 hits.

[gonzo]

Originally posted by Peaches@Aug 11 2004, 08:20 AM
I'm siding with the program owner on this one:

If it's HIS (or her) content, then it should go to their site. Period.
Sig view?

[Peaches]

Originally posted by pushpills+Aug 11 2004, 09:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (pushpills @ Aug 11 2004, 09:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by fatbaby@Aug 11 2004, 07:06 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-gonzo@Aug 11 2004, 05:09 AM
Nick...you need to fail Sykk and give Grogan a promotion.
Bullshit!

If a TGP owner lists a sponsor hosted gallery using their OWN affiliate codes, that gallery SHOULD be exculsive to the sponsor, as should the content.....

Using that content to jerk traffic around aint kosher.....
so, a sponsor should say "We don't want ANY traffic from tgps that skim from thumbnail links..."

Frankly I'd think the sponsor would prefer 40% of those clicks going to their gallery than zero. It's not like the skimmed clicks are going to a different paysite anyway. [/b][/quote]
No, a sponsor should say (and seriously, I guess I'm just ignorant to think this would go WITHOUT saying) "Don't sent traffic to another site using OUR content."

[spazlabz]

Originally posted by Peaches+Aug 11 2004, 05:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Aug 11 2004, 05:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by pushpills@Aug 11 2004, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by fatbaby@Aug 11 2004, 07:06 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-gonzo@Aug 11 2004, 05:09 AM
Nick...you need to fail Sykk and give Grogan a promotion.
Bullshit!

If a TGP owner lists a sponsor hosted gallery using their OWN affiliate codes, that gallery SHOULD be exculsive to the sponsor, as should the content.....

Using that content to jerk traffic around aint kosher.....
so, a sponsor should say "We don't want ANY traffic from tgps that skim from thumbnail links..."

Frankly I'd think the sponsor would prefer 40% of those clicks going to their gallery than zero. It's not like the skimmed clicks are going to a different paysite anyway.
No, a sponsor should say (and seriously, I guess I'm just ignorant to think this would go WITHOUT saying) "Don't sent traffic to another site using OUR content." [/b][/quote]
exactly. But I think sponsors should allow for the traffic trade that is the standard for TGPs nowadays. But if the picture links to a different gallery or to a different paysite directly through the script (as was our case) then kill the affiliate
IMHO


spaz :matey:

[Vick]

Therein lies the rub .....

A program gives content for us to promote their sites, not other sites/programs/traffic trades

If the thumbnail is a sponsor's content and is clicked then goes to another site (trade, toolbar, whatever) then the content is being used for promotion of someone else's product


But as I've also stated that's how TGP's operate

and again if the affiliate was doing big business wit the program the issue would/could have been worked out


What's the answer?
Mmmmmm, TGP's using their own content and only trading from some pic links?
Don't know if that would work

[gonzo]

Originally posted by pushpills+Aug 11 2004, 08:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (pushpills @ Aug 11 2004, 08:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by fatbaby@Aug 11 2004, 07:06 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-gonzo@Aug 11 2004, 05:09 AM
Nick...you need to fail Sykk and give Grogan a promotion.
Bullshit!

If a TGP owner lists a sponsor hosted gallery using their OWN affiliate codes, that gallery SHOULD be exculsive to the sponsor, as should the content.....

Using that content to jerk traffic around aint kosher.....
so, a sponsor should say "We don't want ANY traffic from tgps that skim from thumbnail links..."

Frankly I'd think the sponsor would prefer 40% of those clicks going to their gallery than zero. It's not like the skimmed clicks are going to a different paysite anyway. [/b][/quote]
Typically its 70% a skim past 30% usually dont work.

However if Shemp was here he would disagree with me saying that CJ's suck ass in any form or fashion.

I wonder how many program owners are going to go thru say TTT and terminate all the accounts of the TGPs that are listed there?

Thats just like me saying I dont want my gallery click to go to a page that has any upsell links on it or consoles that I dont get credited for... reckon any program owner wants to open that can of worms?

[gonzo]

For all of you just tuning into the TGP market for the first time in several years let me clarify what Steve Grogan and I are both saying.

The TGP traffic trade takes a percentage of clicks and redirects them to ANOTHER TGP as part of the trade. So the user isnt taken to a competitors gallery or the content isnt used to go to another gallery -- only another TGP. Which yes increases your traffic by trading out with others in your trade network. Thats why is important to know the people that are submitting galleries as well as the people you are trading with.

The other board discussion came up when the Thumb was created and linked to a gallery page and not a trade.

Some of us are working on a trusted site that covers both aspects for all users of Oprano. More updates as progress is made.

[Rolo]

I think most sponsors do not care, if it goes to a trade (unless it is some very high priced exclusive content). The problem is that TGP owner should verify with the program, if its alright to do trading with/via the sponsors content/thumbs... No need to risk a business relationship due to miscommunication or lack of communication.

If the TGP is using the content/thumb to send to a random paysite/gallery, which the program owner has no direct intrest in, then I would think most paysite owners would be upset.

[Biggy]

a sponsor like, that will never ever make a serious tgp presence.
it would not surprise me if that sponsor browsed this board. :)

[urb]

The facts as I see them.

1) The thumb in question was exclusive to the sponsor from a solo amateur site.
2) The sponsor encountered a toolbar installer 3 times (according to Norton) from clicking the thumb + other skims not related to the sponsor.
3) The TGP in question was hosted on a free host.
4) The sponsor emailed both the TGP owner and the hosting company asking for their content to be removed.
5) The free host decided to pull the site.
6) The sponsor posts on a "possible cheaters" forum that the TGP owner is cheating.
7) Greenguy backs the sponsor on the board by saying that the sponsor has the right to protect their own content.
8) Lots of thumb preview TGP owners come into the thread and tell Greenguy and others that they don't understand how TGPs work.

[Peaches]

So riddle me this - what is the problem with the TGP owner getting their own content? Why would they even tempt fate by using a program owner's content? :unsure:

[Nickatilynx]

Simple fix.

Skim from text links .

Leave thumbnails alone , or just buy a few pics to use.

However if I was the sponsor I'd let in slide.

In the scheme of things , why give a fuck.

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by gonzo@Aug 11 2004, 05:48 AM
For all of you just tuning into the TGP market for the first time in several years let me clarify what Steve Grogan and I are both saying.

The TGP traffic trade takes a percentage of clicks and redirects them to ANOTHER TGP as part of the trade. So the user isnt taken to a competitors gallery or the content isnt used to go to another gallery -- only another TGP. Which yes increases your traffic by trading out with others in your trade network. Thats why is important to know the people that are submitting galleries as well as the people you are trading with.

The other board discussion came up when the Thumb was created and linked to a gallery page and not a trade.

Some of us are working on a trusted site that covers both aspects for all users of Oprano. More updates as progress is made.
You hit the nail on the head, Gonzo.. and the thing that this particular person isn't realizing, is that oftentimes their galleries will get listed on these other sites that the traffic is being directed to as well, so they aren't really losing out on anything. In the long run it means MORe traffic to their program, not less.

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by Peaches@Aug 11 2004, 07:31 AM
So riddle me this - what is the problem with the TGP owner getting their own content? Why would they even tempt fate by using a program owner's content? :unsure:
Have you ever tried to promote a reality site with bought content? Doesn't work so well/.

[urb]

Originally posted by Peaches@Aug 11 2004, 03:31 PM
So riddle me this - what is the problem with the TGP owner getting their own content? Why would they even tempt fate by using a program owner's content? :unsure:
A lot of TGP owners are saying that it's standard practice to skim off sponsor hosted gallery thumbs.

Everybody is doing it, so that makes it ok.

This sponsor is being slammed big time on the boards when he is only guilty of being the first sponsor to actually stand up and say... "Hey!!! don't use my content like that!"

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by LadyMischief+Aug 11 2004, 07:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LadyMischief @ Aug 11 2004, 07:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-gonzo@Aug 11 2004, 05:48 AM
For all of you just tuning into the TGP market for the first time in several years let me clarify what Steve Grogan and I are both saying.

The TGP traffic trade takes a percentage of clicks and redirects them to ANOTHER TGP as part of the trade. So the user isnt taken to a competitors gallery or the content isnt used to go to another gallery -- only another TGP. Which yes increases your traffic by trading out with others in your trade network. Thats why is important to know the people that are submitting galleries as well as the people you are trading with.

The other board discussion came up when the Thumb was created and linked to a gallery page and not a trade.

Some of us are working on a trusted site that covers both aspects for all users of Oprano. More updates as progress is made.
You hit the nail on the head, Gonzo.. and the thing that this particular person isn't realizing, is that oftentimes their galleries will get listed on these other sites that the traffic is being directed to as well, so they aren't really losing out on anything. In the long run it means MORe traffic to their program, not less. [/b][/quote]
BINGO!!!!

:)

[Peaches]

Originally posted by LadyMischief+Aug 11 2004, 11:43 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LadyMischief @ Aug 11 2004, 11:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Peaches@Aug 11 2004, 07:31 AM
So riddle me this - what is the problem with the TGP owner getting their own content? Why would they even tempt fate by using a program owner's content? :unsure:
Have you ever tried to promote a reality site with bought content? Doesn't work so well/. [/b][/quote]
Why should they worry about content to promote a reality site when they're sending the surfer to another TGP? The reality site content can go to the reality site and the content the TGP owner buys can be used for trades. Seems pretty simple to me, but apparently I'm missing something...........

[Peaches]

Originally posted by LadyMischief+Aug 11 2004, 11:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LadyMischief @ Aug 11 2004, 11:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-gonzo@Aug 11 2004, 05:48 AM
For all of you just tuning into the TGP market for the first time in several years let me clarify what Steve Grogan and I are both saying.

The TGP traffic trade takes a percentage of clicks and redirects them to ANOTHER TGP as part of the trade. So the user isnt taken to a competitors gallery or the content isnt used to go to another gallery -- only another TGP. Which yes increases your traffic by trading out with others in your trade network. Thats why is important to know the people that are submitting galleries as well as the people you are trading with.

The other board discussion came up when the Thumb was created and linked to a gallery page and not a trade.

Some of us are working on a trusted site that covers both aspects for all users of Oprano. More updates as progress is made.
You hit the nail on the head, Gonzo.. and the thing that this particular person isn't realizing, is that oftentimes their galleries will get listed on these other sites that the traffic is being directed to as well, so they aren't really losing out on anything. In the long run it means MORe traffic to their program, not less. [/b][/quote]
So because they MIGHT POSSIBLY be put on another TGP because of this thumb trade, they should be happy that their exclusive content is being linked to another TGP, and worse, to one that autoinstalls programs? Color me stupid, but I just don't see the "benefit" to anyone except the TGP owners and I see a definite detriment to the content owner. <_<

Now, if the content owner says "Dude, no problem. Link my pictures to other TGPs and that's cool" that's one thing. Sure doesn't look like that's the situation here, though.

[gonzo]

Originally posted by Peaches+Aug 11 2004, 10:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Aug 11 2004, 10:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by LadyMischief@Aug 11 2004, 11:42 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-gonzo@Aug 11 2004, 05:48 AM
For all of you just tuning into the TGP market for the first time in several years let me clarify what Steve Grogan and I are both saying.

The TGP traffic trade takes a percentage of clicks and redirects them to ANOTHER TGP as part of the trade. So the user isnt taken to a competitors gallery or the content isnt used to go to another gallery -- only another TGP. Which yes increases your traffic by trading out with others in your trade network. Thats why is important to know the people that are submitting galleries as well as the people you are trading with.

The other board discussion came up when the Thumb was created and linked to a gallery page and not a trade.

Some of us are working on a trusted site that covers both aspects for all users of Oprano. More updates as progress is made.
You hit the nail on the head, Gonzo.. and the thing that this particular person isn't realizing, is that oftentimes their galleries will get listed on these other sites that the traffic is being directed to as well, so they aren't really losing out on anything. In the long run it means MORe traffic to their program, not less.
So because they MIGHT POSSIBLY be put on another TGP because of this thumb trade, they should be happy that their exclusive content is being linked to another TGP, and worse, to one that autoinstalls programs? Color me stupid, but I just don't see the "benefit" to anyone except the TGP owners and I see a definite detriment to the content owner. <_<

Now, if the content owner says "Dude, no problem. Link my pictures to other TGPs and that's cool" that's one thing. Sure doesn't look like that's the situation here, though. [/b][/quote]
Im done explaining this.

Ill bring you a box of Crayolas to Florida. Todays TGP market is different than building a free site of yesteryear. If its exclusive content its not used as promo.

The most effective use of promo content Ive seen is how CJ has handed Celebrity Bling. Her promo content is expensive.... shes released a very small amount of it for promo to very few people that are judiciously doling it out to specific affiliates signed up under them.

Flipside...all you have to do is to go in the bullshit forum here on Oprano and you will see that the program owners are BEGGING you to use those links by drive spamming every resource board with it weekly.

That dont count the email I get on a daily basis.

[Nickatilynx]

TGP , free hosts....they were always about the skim , if they were run right. ;-)))

There is nothing new under the sun.

Gonzo , its like trying to explain "The shave" to gfyers.

If the sponsor throws good parties , has some hot chicks on staff and is nice to everyone = "He does not shave"



;-))))

[PornoDoggy]

First of all, the "conversation" about this on another board is really more about some people repeating their canned tirades about traffic trading in general.

If a sponsor program doesn't want their images used in that fashion and they do not specify that in their TOS, they (IMHO) did not do their homework before putting out hosted galleries.

[Nickatilynx]

Urgent message on the "other secret wink wink board" folks


:)

[Peaches]

Originally posted by gonzo@Aug 11 2004, 12:40 PM
Im done explaining this.

Ill bring you a box of Crayolas to Florida. Todays TGP market is different than building a free site of yesteryear. If its exclusive content its not used as promo.

The most effective use of promo content Ive seen is how CJ has handed Celebrity Bling. Her promo content is expensive.... shes released a very small amount of it for promo to very few people that are judiciously doling it out to specific affiliates signed up under them.

Flipside...all you have to do is to go in the bullshit forum here on Oprano and you will see that the program owners are BEGGING you to use those links by drive spamming every resource board with it weekly.

That dont count the email I get on a daily basis.
Apples and oranges. A sponsor WANTING the TGP to do this is one thing. A sponsor NOT wanting the TGP to do this is something entirely different.

Did you guys miss the part of every sponsor TOS I've read/created/accepted where it says "We can terminate this agreement at any time"?

A sponsor has every right to decide where his/her content is going to be used and what affiliates they want in the program. If, as it's been said, not allowing these links will hurt the sponsor, so be it. That's the sponsor's choice.

[gonzo]

Originally posted by Peaches+Aug 11 2004, 11:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Aug 11 2004, 11:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-gonzo@Aug 11 2004, 12:40 PM
Im done explaining this.

Ill bring you a box of Crayolas to Florida. Todays TGP market is different than building a free site of yesteryear. If its exclusive content its not used as promo.

The most effective use of promo content Ive seen is how CJ has handed Celebrity Bling. Her promo content is expensive.... shes released a very small amount of it for promo to very few people that are judiciously doling it out to specific affiliates signed up under them.

Flipside...all you have to do is to go in the bullshit forum here on Oprano and you will see that the program owners are BEGGING you to use those links by drive spamming every resource board with it weekly.

That dont count the email I get on a daily basis.
Apples and oranges. A sponsor WANTING the TGP to do this is one thing. A sponsor NOT wanting the TGP to do this is something entirely different.

Did you guys miss the part of every sponsor TOS I've read/created/accepted where it says "We can terminate this agreement at any time"?

A sponsor has every right to decide where his/her content is going to be used and what affiliates they want in the program. If, as it's been said, not allowing these links will hurt the sponsor, so be it. That's the sponsor's choice. [/b][/quote]
Apples and oranges my ass!

Did you read Spaz's post about it wasnt a skim to begin with but it was being linked to another sponsors gallery?

Amusing....the only thing thats changed is the color of blinders youve decided to wear.

[Vick]

the Vick says this ........

the Vick says "it's much ado about nothing"

Furthermore the Vick says "if the affiliate was worth a damn the sponsor would have <found a way to> kept them and that's why it's much ado about nothing"

and now the Vick says "if you don't play pretty I won't sit between you at dinner"


and that's the bottom line because .....




oh shit I summoned Austin when doing the Rock
Glad it's Football Season

[Peaches]

Originally posted by gonzo@Aug 11 2004, 12:59 PM
Apples and oranges my ass!

Did you read Spaz's post about it wasnt a skim to begin with but it was being linked to another sponsors gallery?

Amusing....the only thing thats changed is the color of blinders youve decided to wear.
So you think a sponsor who doesn't mind their content being used in this fashion is the same as sponsor who doesn't? :unsure: Of course they're different!

Are you seriously saying that a sponsor doesn't have the right to cancel an affilate who is doing something he doesn't want them to do with their content?

Maybe I'm missing something really, really, really huge here, but sponsors being able to cancel affilates for doing things they don't want them doing doesn't seem like it's a new concept all of a sudden...... :blink:

[Nickatilynx]

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :



:burn: :burn: :burn:



:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Aug 11 2004, 01:09 PM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :



:burn: :burn: :burn:



:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :
Hellpuppy just wanted to win an Xbox :agrin:

[gonzo]

Originally posted by Peaches+Aug 11 2004, 12:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Aug 11 2004, 12:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-gonzo@Aug 11 2004, 12:59 PM
Apples and oranges my ass!

Did you read Spaz's post about it wasnt a skim to begin with but it was being linked to another sponsors gallery?

Amusing....the only thing thats changed is the color of blinders youve decided to wear.
So you think a sponsor who doesn't mind their content being used in this fashion is the same as sponsor who doesn't? :unsure: Of course they're different!

Are you seriously saying that a sponsor doesn't have the right to cancel an affilate who is doing something he doesn't want them to do with their content?

Maybe I'm missing something really, really, really huge here, but sponsors being able to cancel affilates for doing things they don't want them doing doesn't seem like it's a new concept all of a sudden...... :blink: [/b][/quote]
Im sure you know a few sponsors to ask....

[SykkBoy]

First of all, I wouldn't just out and out shitcan the affiliate without emailing them telling them to avoiding using our content in this manner.

We've been allowing our content to be used in yahoo groups (as long as they were promoting our sites as well and the images weren't changed in any way). The problem is, we want them promoting OUR SITES.

See, we have this crazy deal with our site and models and members: they trust us and our girs are becoming well known. Our girls aren't as well known as the Lightspeed Girls, but we're working on it ;-)) What happens if this skim using our thumb is sent to a site that might be listing kiddie porn galleries? What if the skim is going to our competitors site?

So, what some of you guys are saying is I can use a purecash banner to promote my own program as long as I send 70% of my traffic to purecash? What about using a Little April banner to send traffic to Tawney Stone's site? Even better, what if I use a Lesbian Pink banner to send traffic to lesbian 101? ny of those sponsors would shitcan me and most likely not bother with an email or any other form of contact.

When we give content to our affiliates, it is to promote our sites. That's it. It's no different than providing banners, full page ads or hosted galleries.

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Aug 11 2004, 11:52 AM
Urgent message on the "other secret wink wink board" folks


:)
psst, there's a glitch in the matrix
fax hit the line yesterday, but the sultan is sluggish on the recoil...
;-)

[gonzo]

Originally posted by SykkBoy+Aug 11 2004, 12:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SykkBoy @ Aug 11 2004, 12:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Aug 11 2004, 11:52 AM
Urgent message on the "other secret wink wink board" folks


:)
psst, there's a glitch in the matrix
fax hit the line yesterday, but the sultan is sluggish on the recoil...
;-) [/b][/quote]
Mike AI is in transit.

[Nickatilynx]

BREAK!!!!!!!!!!

We seem to have a conflict....

We have ...

employees who want to protect there companies copyrighted material.

And businessmen who want traffic.

A dliemma


OK START BOXING!


:popcorn:

[gonzo]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Aug 11 2004, 12:20 PM
BREAK!!!!!!!!!!

We seem to have a conflict....

We have ...

employees who want to protect there companies copyrighted material.

And businessmen who want traffic.

A dliemma


OK START BOXING!


:popcorn:
I repeat Mike AI is in transit hahahahaha!

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Aug 11 2004, 01:20 PM
BREAK!!!!!!!!!!

We seem to have a conflict....

We have ...

employees who want to protect there companies copyrighted material.

And businessmen who want traffic.

A dliemma


OK START BOXING!


:popcorn:
I disagree.

I think we have businessmen on both sides who want to do whatever they can to make as much money as they can :)

The problem seems be that when Businessman A says he doesn't want to do business anymore with Businessman B, Businessman B says they are required to. :P

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by Peaches+Aug 11 2004, 12:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Aug 11 2004, 12:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Aug 11 2004, 01:20 PM
BREAK!!!!!!!!!!

We seem to have a conflict....

We have ...

employees who want to protect there companies copyrighted material.

And businessmen who want traffic.

A dliemma


OK START BOXING!


:popcorn:
I disagree.

I think we have businessmen on both sides who want to do whatever they can to make as much money as they can :)

The problem seems be that when Businessman A says he doesn't want to do business anymore with Businessman B, Businessman B says they are required to. :P [/b][/quote]
exactly

[gonzo]

Nick dont tell her that biz man A & B are the same person.

[nlphoto]

Originally posted by Vick@Aug 11 2004, 10:06 AM
the Vick says this ........

the Vick says "it's much ado about nothing"

Furthermore the Vick says "if the affiliate was worth a damn the sponsor would have <found a way to> kept them and that's why it's much ado about nothing"

and now the Vick says "if you don't play pretty I won't sit between you at dinner"


and that's the bottom line because .....




oh shit I summoned Austin when doing the Rock
Glad it's Football Season
Shit Vick, for a second there I thought your body had been taken
over by the poltergeist of Caprio... :o

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by gonzo@Aug 11 2004, 12:54 PM
Nick dont tell her that biz man A & B are the same person.
uh oh Gonzo's pulling out the jedi mind trick again

;-))

[Peaches]

Originally posted by gonzo@Aug 11 2004, 01:54 PM
Nick dont tell her that biz man A & B are the same person.
So the program owner was also the TGP owner in the situation Hellpuppy started this thread about? That's an interesting scenario. Are they called "Sybil's TGP" and "Sybil's Other Personality's Paysite"? :yowsa:

[Nickatilynx]

All boards are a stage , and we ? We but mere players hawking our wares ;-)))

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Aug 11 2004, 02:01 PM
All boards are a stage , and we ? We but mere players hawking our wares ;-)))
I KNEW it - HP just wanted the Xbox! :P

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by SykkBoy@Aug 11 2004, 12:31 PM
I disagree.

I think we have businessmen on both sides who want to do whatever they can to make as much money as they can :)

The problem seems be that when Businessman A says he doesn't want to do business anymore with Businessman B, Businessman B says they are required to. :P
exactly [/quote]
Sponsors do have the option of terminating anyone they want for whatever they want. I don't really think that is relevant to the conversation - I don't think anyone is questioning that.

What I think they are questioning is the WISDOM of terminating the account over the use of the thumb in that manner. I repeat again - being "suprised" that it was being used that way indicates a lack of research on the part of the sponsor program. Everyone and their mother has an opinion on traffic trading and skim ... what people think it "ought to be" has been discussed more than (well, okay, almost as much as) Confucy's identity; if you are offering a promotional tool for use in the market, you ought to know what the market actually IS.

PROFESSIONALS probably would communicate with the "offending" webmaster before terminating the account (which was done) and/or going to the boards (which does not appear to have been the case).

Sykk - while your arguement about the banner is a lot closer to relevant than much of what has been posted, I still don't think it plays. Use of a sponsor banner or a sponsor-provided thumb to send traffic to another sponsor would be a obvious violation of the terms of use. Use of the thumb in such a manner for legitimate trading is a lot more in the gray ... the intent is to generate fresh credit cards/checking accounts, er, eyes to the sponsor.

[gonzo]

Just cuz you started out Old School dont mean you cant stay current!

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by Peaches+Aug 11 2004, 10:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Aug 11 2004, 10:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Aug 11 2004, 02:01 PM
All boards are a stage , and we ? We but mere players hawking our wares ;-)))
I KNEW it - HP just wanted the Xbox! :P [/b][/quote]
Yeah and some are:

stars
juvenile leads
supporting actors
fading leading actors
character actors
bit players
and extras.

The really smart ones go into Production and directing and writing the whole script.

And then the french call them auteurs!


Working out who is who is the bitch , and avoiding agents and managers.


;-)))

[Peaches]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Aug 11 2004, 02:04 PM
I disagree.

I think we have businessmen on both sides who want to do whatever they can to make as much money as they can :)

The problem seems be that when Businessman A says he doesn't want to do business anymore with Businessman B, Businessman B says they are required to. :P
exactly
Sponsors do have the option of terminating anyone they want for whatever they want. I don't really think that is relevant to the conversation - I don't think anyone is questioning that.

What I think they are questioning is the WISDOM of terminating the account over the use of the thumb in that manner. I repeat again - being "suprised" that it was being used that way indicates a lack of research on the part of the sponsor program. Everyone and their mother has an opinion on traffic trading and skim ... what people think it "ought to be" has been discussed more than (well, okay, almost as much as) Confucy's identity; if you are offering a promotional tool for use in the market, you ought to know what the market actually IS.

PROFESSIONALS probably would communicate with the "offending" webmaster before terminating the account (which was done) and/or going to the boards (which does not appear to have been the case).

Sykk - while your arguement about the banner is a lot closer to relevant than much of what has been posted, I still don't think it plays. Use of a sponsor banner or a sponsor-provided thumb to send traffic to another sponsor would be a obvious violation of the terms of use. Use of the thumb in such a manner for legitimate trading is a lot more in the gray ... the intent is to generate fresh credit cards/checking accounts, er, eyes to the sponsor. [/quote]
I'm not disagreeing that it might not be SMART to allow this kind of trade. I even said several times that if the sponsor is cool with it, then of course there is no problem.

This doesn't seem to be the case with this particular sponsor. Again, as I said before, if s/he loses money by not accepting this practice, then so be it. 'Tis why I brought up the apples and oranges - a sponsor who wants to make money this way ISN'T the same sponsor that doesn't :) Then there's the revelation from Gonzo that the TGP owner and the sponsor are the same person, so I guess both sponsors could also be the same person :)

But IMHO, the sponsor has the right to decide how the content he legally owns the rights to gets used and has the right to decide to terminate an affiliate who doesn't do what they want them to do with it.

With that, I'm off to the store to buy toothpaste, deodorant, aspirin, a rain coat, small canoe and all the other crap I need to take for the trip. :okthumb:

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by Peaches@Aug 11 2004, 10:13 AM
I disagree.

I think we have businessmen on both sides who want to do whatever they can to make as much money as they can :)

The problem seems be that when Businessman A says he doesn't want to do business anymore with Businessman B, Businessman B says they are required to. :P
exactly
Sponsors do have the option of terminating anyone they want for whatever they want. I don't really think that is relevant to the conversation - I don't think anyone is questioning that.

What I think they are questioning is the WISDOM of terminating the account over the use of the thumb in that manner. I repeat again - being "suprised" that it was being used that way indicates a lack of research on the part of the sponsor program. Everyone and their mother has an opinion on traffic trading and skim ... what people think it "ought to be" has been discussed more than (well, okay, almost as much as) Confucy's identity; if you are offering a promotional tool for use in the market, you ought to know what the market actually IS.

PROFESSIONALS probably would communicate with the "offending" webmaster before terminating the account (which was done) and/or going to the boards (which does not appear to have been the case).

Sykk - while your arguement about the banner is a lot closer to relevant than much of what has been posted, I still don't think it plays. Use of a sponsor banner or a sponsor-provided thumb to send traffic to another sponsor would be a obvious violation of the terms of use. Use of the thumb in such a manner for legitimate trading is a lot more in the gray ... the intent is to generate fresh credit cards/checking accounts, er, eyes to the sponsor.
I'm not disagreeing that it might not be SMART to allow this kind of trade. I even said several times that if the sponsor is cool with it, then of course there is no problem.

This doesn't seem to be the case with this particular sponsor. Again, as I said before, if s/he loses money by not accepting this practice, then so be it. 'Tis why I brought up the apples and oranges - a sponsor who wants to make money this way ISN'T the same sponsor that doesn't :) Then there's the revelation from Gonzo that the TGP owner and the sponsor are the same person, so I guess both sponsors could also be the same person :)

But IMHO, the sponsor has the right to decide how the content he legally owns the rights to gets used and has the right to decide to terminate an affiliate who doesn't do what they want them to do with it.

With that, I'm off to the store to buy toothpaste, deodorant, aspirin, a rain coat, small canoe and all the other crap I need to take for the trip. :okthumb: [/quote]
gag order?








;-)))





:popcorn:

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Aug 11 2004, 02:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Aug 11 2004, 02:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Peaches@Aug 11 2004, 10:02 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Aug 11 2004, 02:01 PM
All boards are a stage , and we ? We but mere players hawking our wares ;-)))
I KNEW it - HP just wanted the Xbox! :P
Yeah and some are:

stars
juvenile leads
supporting actors
fading leading actors
character actors
bit players
and extras.

The really smart ones go into Production and directing and writing the whole script.

And then the french call them auteurs!


Working out who is who is the bitch , and avoiding agents and managers.


;-))) [/b][/quote]
I'll just be the fluffer B)

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by Peaches+Aug 11 2004, 10:14 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Aug 11 2004, 10:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Aug 11 2004, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by Peaches@Aug 11 2004, 10:02 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Aug 11 2004, 02:01 PM
All boards are a stage , and we ? We but mere players hawking our wares ;-)))
I KNEW it - HP just wanted the Xbox! :P
Yeah and some are:

stars
juvenile leads
supporting actors
fading leading actors
character actors
bit players
and extras.

The really smart ones go into Production and directing and writing the whole script.

And then the french call them auteurs!


Working out who is who is the bitch , and avoiding agents and managers.


;-)))
I'll just be the fluffer B) [/b][/quote]
ahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahah

[Vick]

Gadzooks I've been had

where's the fish hooked icon :cool2:

[gonzo]

A nice big glass of STFU was delivered.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by gonzo@Aug 11 2004, 10:17 AM
A nice big glass of STFU was delivered.
ahahahahahahahahhahahaha

Silence is golden , so they say ;-)))

Fuck me , I love this game :)

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Aug 11 2004, 01:04 PM
Sykk - while your arguement about the banner is a lot closer to relevant than much of what has been posted, I still don't think it plays. Use of a sponsor banner or a sponsor-provided thumb to send traffic to another sponsor would be a obvious violation of the terms of use. Use of the thumb in such a manner for legitimate trading is a lot more in the gray ... the intent is to generate fresh credit cards/checking accounts, er, eyes to the sponsor.
ok, what if I put a button of YOUR TGP but link it to another TGP 30% of the time?
wouldn't I get blacklisted from the TGP?

[Peaches]

Originally posted by gonzo@Aug 11 2004, 02:17 PM
A nice big glass of STFU was delivered.
I sure hope you aren't talking about me......... :unsure:

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by Peaches+Aug 11 2004, 01:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Aug 11 2004, 01:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-gonzo@Aug 11 2004, 02:17 PM
A nice big glass of STFU was delivered.
I sure hope you aren't talking about me......... :unsure: [/b][/quote]
SECONDS OUT!!!!!!!!!!

ROUND TWO !!!!!!

DING DING!!!


:popcorn:

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Aug 11 2004, 05:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Aug 11 2004, 05:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Peaches@Aug 11 2004, 01:00 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-gonzo@Aug 11 2004, 02:17 PM
A nice big glass of STFU was delivered.
I sure hope you aren't talking about me......... :unsure:
SECONDS OUT!!!!!!!!!!

ROUND TWO !!!!!!

DING DING!!!


:popcorn: [/b][/quote]
Well if someone was supposed to contact me and shut me up, they either forgot to or were afraid to. :P

[Dravyk]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Aug 11 2004, 02:20 PM
BREAK!!!!!!!!!!

We seem to have a conflict....

We have ...

employees who want to protect there companies copyrighted material.

And businessmen who want traffic.

And to do the latter one has to steal content?

As I said before, they can buy content. Or as you said before, use text links.

Let's put it another way ... if one is a businessman, why put their profits in jepeordy unless they are an idiot? A businessman wouldn't. Therefore they're no businessman.

[mojobill]

Fuck Dravyk... there you go trying to interject logic into an otherwise great thead! ;-)

[Nickatilynx]

I don't give a fuck what any of you think!!!

According to this thread it is still 1998.

It says it is here!!! Look!!! Its 1998 (http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/index.php?showtopic=13239)



I'm going with that.

This board does not exist..

nah nah nah

Half of you are not even online

ahahahahahahahahaha

SWEEET :)



;-))))

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Aug 11 2004, 05:34 PM
I don't give a fuck what any of you think!!!

According to this thread it is still 1998.

It says it is here!!! Look!!! Its 1998 (http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/index.php?showtopic=13239)



I'm going with that.

This board does not exist..

nah nah nah

Half of you are not even online

ahahahahahahahahaha

SWEEET :)



;-))))
Then no ones thought of skimming.........yet........... :D

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by Peaches+Aug 11 2004, 04:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Aug 11 2004, 04:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Aug 11 2004, 05:34 PM
I don't give a fuck what any of you think!!!

According to this thread it is still 1998.

It says it is here!!! Look!!! Its 1998 (http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/index.php?showtopic=13239)



I'm going with that.

This board does not exist..

nah nah nah

Half of you are not even online

ahahahahahahahahaha

SWEEET :)



;-))))
Then no ones thought of skimming.........yet........... :D [/b][/quote]
but you can add consoles to your sites that NetPond sends decent toplist traffic to..........

and SykkBoy is the industry's favorite online writer (I wouldn't use the term "journalist")

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by Peaches+Aug 11 2004, 01:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Aug 11 2004, 01:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Aug 11 2004, 05:34 PM
I don't give a fuck what any of you think!!!

According to this thread it is still 1998.

It says it is here!!! Look!!! Its 1998 (http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/index.php?showtopic=13239)



I'm going with that.

This board does not exist..

nah nah nah

Half of you are not even online

ahahahahahahahahaha

SWEEET :)



;-))))
Then no ones thought of skimming.........yet........... :D [/b][/quote]
errr...no of course not....hasn't been done yet....not at all.

No evil bastard would be siphoning off all the AOL traffic from his free hosts or his links on the hun straight to sponsors , just cause he realised no webmaster used aol and thus he would probably get away with it.

Of course not...never....

wouldn't happen...

same as dynamic webpages for SEs...

naw...


no one would do that.


;-)))))

[Nickatilynx]

but you can add consoles to your sites that NetPond sends decent toplist traffic to..........


(whistling innocently and kicking his feet whilst looking heavenward)





hehehehehe



;-))))

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Aug 11 2004, 11:43 AM
TGP , free hosts....they were always about the skim , if they were run right. ;-)))

There is nothing new under the sun.

Gonzo , its like trying to explain "The shave" to gfyers.

If the sponsor throws good parties , has some hot chicks on staff and is nice to everyone = "He does not shave"



;-))))
YOU FUCKING BASTARD!!! :angry:

I spit my drink all over my god damn monitor!! :lol:

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by Vick@Aug 11 2004, 12:06 PM
the Vick says this ........

the Vick says "it's much ado about nothing"

Furthermore the Vick says "if the affiliate was worth a damn the sponsor would have <found a way to> kept them and that's why it's much ado about nothing"

and now the Vick says "if you don't play pretty I won't sit between you at dinner"


and that's the bottom line because .....




oh shit I summoned Austin when doing the Rock
Glad it's Football Season
:lol: :lol:

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by TheEnforcer+Aug 11 2004, 02:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TheEnforcer @ Aug 11 2004, 02:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Vick@Aug 11 2004, 12:06 PM
the Vick says this ........


Furthermore the Vick says "if the affiliate was worth a damn the sponsor would have <found a way to> kept them and that's why it's much ado about nothing"


and that's the bottom line because .....




oh shit I summoned Austin when doing the Rock
Glad it's Football Season
:lol: :lol: [/b][/quote]
on that note

I'll let any affiliate that can send my pharma 200 joins a day , fuck me in the ass , if he sustains it for 3 mo0nths.

Oh , and I'm a virgin.


:)

[Dravyk]

Originally posted by SykkBoy+Aug 11 2004, 06:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SykkBoy @ Aug 11 2004, 06:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Peaches@Aug 11 2004, 04:38 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Aug 11 2004, 05:34 PM
I don't give a fuck what any of you think!!!

According to this thread it is still 1998.

It says it is here!!! Look!!! Its 1998 (http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/index.php?showtopic=13239)



I'm going with that.

This board does not exist..

nah nah nah

Half of you are not even online

ahahahahahahahahaha

SWEEET :)



;-))))
Then no ones thought of skimming.........yet........... :D
but you can add consoles to your sites that NetPond sends decent toplist traffic to..........

and SykkBoy is the industry's favorite online writer (I wouldn't use the term "journalist") [/b][/quote]
And if you wait until midnight and keeping hitting reload on your index page you can get to the top of the YNOT list for the first six hours!! :yowsa:

[Vick]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Aug 11 2004, 06:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Aug 11 2004, 06:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by TheEnforcer@Aug 11 2004, 02:36 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Vick@Aug 11 2004, 12:06 PM
the Vick says this ........


Furthermore the Vick says "if the affiliate was worth a damn the sponsor would have <found a way to> kept them and that's why it's much ado about nothing"


and that's the bottom line because .....




oh shit I summoned Austin when doing the Rock
Glad it's Football Season
:lol: :lol:
on that note

I'll let any affiliate that can send my pharma 200 joins a day , fuck me in the ass , if he sustains it for 3 mo0nths.

Oh , and I'm a virgin.


:) [/b][/quote]
Is there a bottle of Absinthe included?


Someone could pretend your the green fairy or something like that, yeah that's it

and

I didn't do it
the check's in the mail and
I won't .....

[Vick]

p.s. if it's 1998 I'm going to party like it's 1999

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by Dravyk+Aug 11 2004, 08:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dravyk @ Aug 11 2004, 08:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by SykkBoy@Aug 11 2004, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by Peaches@Aug 11 2004, 04:38 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Aug 11 2004, 05:34 PM
I don't give a fuck what any of you think!!!

According to this thread it is still 1998.

It says it is here!!! Look!!! Its 1998 (http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/index.php?showtopic=13239)



I'm going with that.

This board does not exist..

nah nah nah

Half of you are not even online

ahahahahahahahahaha

SWEEET :)



;-))))
Then no ones thought of skimming.........yet........... :D
but you can add consoles to your sites that NetPond sends decent toplist traffic to..........

and SykkBoy is the industry's favorite online writer (I wouldn't use the term "journalist")
And if you wait until midnight and keeping hitting reload on your index page you can get to the top of the YNOT list for the first six hours!! :yowsa: [/b][/quote]
shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Hell Puppy]

Originally posted by Peaches@Aug 11 2004, 12:10 PM

Hellpuppy just wanted to win an Xbox :agrin:
Oh no, I wanted, AND RECEIVED, something FAR more valuable than an Xbox....

:ph34r:

[Hell Puppy]

Sooo....

Peaches and Sykkboy -- should we go ahead and let all of the Thumb TGPs out there know that they shouldn't use Weg, Purecash and Evil Genius Cash galleries because they dont want any of their pics being used as a preview thumb that might go someplace other than their gallery?


:unsure:

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Aug 11 2004, 10:09 PM
Sooo....

Peaches and Sykkboy -- should we go ahead and let all of the Thumb TGPs out there know that they shouldn't use Weg, Purecash and Evil Genius Cash galleries because they dont want any of their pics being used as a preview thumb that might go someplace other than their gallery?


:unsure:
The only time I'd have an issue is if it went to a different sponsor...
as long as the thumb TGP is actively promoting the program, I'm quite flexible

just like mailer traffic...if it's producing, it's easy to overlook a little heat....

let's make this about communication...
email me sykkboy@evilgeniuscash.com if you wish to promote us on thumb TGP's and I'll work with you on it...no different than working with guys who promote us via Yahoo groups....

[gonzo]

Originally posted by SykkBoy+Aug 11 2004, 10:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SykkBoy @ Aug 11 2004, 10:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Hell Puppy@Aug 11 2004, 10:09 PM
Sooo....

Peaches and Sykkboy -- should we go ahead and let all of the Thumb TGPs out there know that they shouldn't use Weg, Purecash and Evil Genius Cash galleries because they dont want any of their pics being used as a preview thumb that might go someplace other than their gallery?


:unsure:
The only time I'd have an issue is if it went to a different sponsor...
as long as the thumb TGP is actively promoting the program, I'm quite flexible

just like mailer traffic...if it's producing, it's easy to overlook a little heat....

let's make this about communication...
email me sykkboy@evilgeniuscash.com if you wish to promote us on thumb TGP's and I'll work with you on it...no different than working with guys who promote us via Yahoo groups.... [/b][/quote]
Cranking up a little Spin Doctors for SykkBoy.... I think Ill listen to "Little Miss Can't Be Wrong"....

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by gonzo+Aug 11 2004, 10:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gonzo @ Aug 11 2004, 10:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by SykkBoy@Aug 11 2004, 10:35 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Hell Puppy@Aug 11 2004, 10:09 PM
Sooo....

Peaches and Sykkboy -- should we go ahead and let all of the Thumb TGPs out there know that they shouldn't use Weg, Purecash and Evil Genius Cash galleries because they dont want any of their pics being used as a preview thumb that might go someplace other than their gallery?


:unsure:
The only time I'd have an issue is if it went to a different sponsor...
as long as the thumb TGP is actively promoting the program, I'm quite flexible

just like mailer traffic...if it's producing, it's easy to overlook a little heat....

let's make this about communication...
email me sykkboy@evilgeniuscash.com if you wish to promote us on thumb TGP's and I'll work with you on it...no different than working with guys who promote us via Yahoo groups....
Cranking up a little Spin Doctors for SykkBoy.... I think Ill listen to "Little Miss Can't Be Wrong".... [/b][/quote]
hahaha
everyone knows I'm flexible and let's be honest, we're all signup whores

it's no different than if someone's mailing for me...let me know ahead of time and we can make sure you're not fucking us up....

same with hthumb TGP's, drop me an email and I'll take care of you...

I hate surprises...

[cj]

So let me get this right .... because none of you understand the point peaches was trying to make, she is stupid and you are all geniuses?!?!?

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA

Nick, if you had've SKIMMED right, you'd have retired by now and not still be here with us minions discussing whether thumbs should click to sponsors or other tgp's!!!

Gonzo, if you had've built a paysite on your domain back in 94 when you registered it, you'd be retired too instead of posting here trying to convince us you know everything about tgp's!!

Peaches is making a point here about how sponsors see the standard tgp 'SKIM' procedure and the problems it causes for them ... instead of trying to understand her point, you make smart assed comments about crayons and drawing diagrams and act like you have won some imaginary battle that is only happening in your heads?!?!

Being that you are all planning on building some big fancy tgp to end all tgp's, wouldn't you think the smartest thing you could do at this point is LISTEN?! listen to EVERYBODY, not just those whose ideas support your theories?!

Don't you want good sponsors with unique content in your tgp?!

Don't you want profitable sponsors in your tgp?!

Where my celeb content is concerned, I will not accept a tgp using the thumbs for the skim ... I'm happy to discuss alternative methods because i understand why the skim exists, I'll even code alternatives at our end if something else can be agreed upon, but for legal reasons, the thumbs can not be linked to anywhere else but these sites.

I would explain the reasons further, why this is the most profitable for me & for the tgp, why it makes sense, why it is a smart business move, why it is legally necessary etc, but its clear how ya'all feel about appreciating someone else's position so why bother?

Its no surprise that Nick only cares about 1 persons interests, but Gonzo, I thought you would at least try to consider the views of those who are outside looking in ... especially when those people have valuable knowledge that you don't possess yourself.

It comes down to this .... there are more big tgp's than there are big sponsors these days. Finding the right one to work with has never been so important. 1000 unique visitors is still only 1000 unique visitors, even if it can be inflated to 100 000 clicks in a tgp circle jerk. While turning those 1000 visitors into 100 000 clicks is the core of a successful tgp & the smokes and mirrors game, it doesn't help the *sponsor* find the 1000 visitors and get them to make a purchase.

I could list my upcoming galleries at 1 in every 50 tgp's and get almost the same amount of *people* visiting my site as those who submit to every single tgp out there ...

If you've got a different perspective to share, I'm all ears, I love learning ... THANK YOU to HP, PD and sykkboy for your views and the way you shared them - very interesting & informative. :okthumb:

[gonzo]

Originally posted by cj@Aug 12 2004, 01:16 AM

Gonzo, if you had've built a paysite on your domain back in 94 when you registered it, you'd be retired too instead of posting here trying to convince us you know everything about tgp's!!


93.... and there was no way to build a paysite other than using a BBS system and RIP graphics. Which I did build but the software I ran only supported 12 lines. 12 concurent users never made anyone rich at $20 a year.

However I had zero chargebacks....we processed thru Teleflora among others or people mailed me a check or cash along with an application and a drivers license.

ISDN was limited to 256K so even though I installed it...it never worked. Had it worked I would have found out like so many others did that netusers looking for porn saturated that line.

It was as it is now...all about the traffic/numbers.

Had Fred Clark and the rest of the boys at Salt Air BBS made the version of PCboard/Metaworlds actually work under OS/2 and delivered it... it could have been a different story. What you call cgi scripts we called doors. Prior to 93 I had everything from NGS [nasty grey shit] porn pics...animated .fli and grasprt films...a full dating service whith pics that tied into a horoscope system and several games [all running on ONE 286 at best box under DOS 5.0 and Desqview. 93 I added newsgroups which had 7 bit files which you converted to 8 bit which was as close as you could get to a paysite along with what you know as email [we didnt have @ signs we had a bang path with !'s in between]. It was all that free content that BBS Sysops uploaded to get people to call their systems. They used BIG old watermarks with their BBS name and number. Kind of the same comparison to this conversation as they were all glad for me to download them and make them availible for PAY to my users. It allowed the user to see that there was more out there than GonZoland BBS. Most of those early content producers [Lee Noga wasnt the first] we all knew personally and face to face. Some of the Big Boys were names like Rusty and Edies....granma and granpa running a HUGE server farm in their house under a T1..[got shut down when the Feds chopped the T1 in half with an axe for running and distributing pirated software. Novell didnt fuck around then either.] MacHenry, Windy City/The General, and Amatuer Action. Of course then there wasnt a any clicking going on ...Windows was out I think maybe v. 1.0...so we didnt have these complex issues.

Damn I miss those days. Come home open the mailbox cash the check. Updates were automated machine ran without any intervention.

Even back then though... I never claimed to know everything about those systems. Hell all the techies thought us Adult Sysops were the scum of the earth and we'd never make any money. Them internet domain names was a waste of time and resources...

Im actually more accomplished at Picpost than I am TGP. And up until 4 months ago I was way behind on the TGP curve. What Ive learned since then is that its still about the traffic. If Ive offended anyone or made them feel belitted by making that point I am sorry. The Hun/Shemp/AL4A/World Sex... Im not... nor will I ever claim to be.

I do know that TGP traffic is powerful stuff. Hell Ive been known to send it to my own paysites instead of another sponsors....as well as some AVS. Who knows your own traffic better than you? Working with it you can skim it...slice it...dice it and scatter and smother it if you want. I think they used to call skimming from a thumb to another group of thumbnails TGP2 or something. I remember that it was called cheating when I did it. My point is this. Traffic is essential to your business no matter how or what you are marketing. I hope at least a few of us can get together and effectively trade that traffic without fear of toolbars and other bullshit.

If you cant sell it.....maybe I can and vice versa. Some of you want to submit to a TGP and actually get listed by following a few common sense rules that allow you to make a sale. We want to give you a place to do that as well. And last but not least all the sponsors want traffic. This accomplishes that as well. Its my personal goal to bring the users of this resource a tool that they can use. We hope to accomplish this with the TGP.

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Aug 11 2004, 11:09 PM
Sooo....

Peaches and Sykkboy -- should we go ahead and let all of the Thumb TGPs out there know that they shouldn't use Weg, Purecash and Evil Genius Cash galleries because they dont want any of their pics being used as a preview thumb that might go someplace other than their gallery?


:unsure:
Seriously, what is so freaking hard to understand this?

It means if a sponsor, ANY SPONSOR, like the guy who started this on the other board, doesn't want THEIR CONTENT used to go to another site, then you either DON'T DO IT, or you terminate the relationship between the two of you.

Geeze, it just amazes me that you guys, especially since you're IN the content biz, are saying someone doesn't have the right to STOP doing business with someone who uses their content when they don't want them to! :unsure:

Just for shits and grins, let's say stopping that TGP from using his content to send to other sites will bankrupt him the next day. WHY DO YOU CARE? It's HIS content! He has every right to tell you how he wants it used or to go pound sand. There are many people in this biz who make sacrifices for their beliefs. His beliefs are that he doesn't want his content, his own wife in this instance, used in the way it was being used so he exercised his right to cancel the affiliate.

Would it be OK with you if someone used a thumb of your exclusive content to go to a bestiality TGP? What about a TGP with nothing but child porn? After all, it's all about "trading traffic" right? Those are rhetorical questions since based on what you've been fighting against, I'm not sure I want to hear the answers :(

I'm not debating that it makes more money. I'm not debating that it's a good idea. I'm not debating that most if not all TGPs operate this way. Heck, I'm not even debating that the guy is cutting off his nose to spite his face. I'm debating the simple fact that in MY MIND, a content owner/sponsor has the right to terminate a relationship with ANYONE THEY WANT for any reason.

Bottom line - if a sponsor doesn't care, then it's a non-issue and this would have NEVER come up. But in this case a sponsor DID care, terminated the relationship and demanded the thumbs be removed. Why on God's green earth you guys are so bent out of shape because this one guy doesn't want to play in your sandbox is beyond me. :blink:

[Peaches]

Originally posted by cj@Aug 12 2004, 02:16 AM
Where my celeb content is concerned, I will not accept a tgp using the thumbs for the skim ...
No, cj, that is NOT your perogative. Period. End of discussion. <_<

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by Peaches+Aug 11 2004, 07:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Aug 11 2004, 07:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by LadyMischief@Aug 11 2004, 11:42 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-gonzo@Aug 11 2004, 05:48 AM
For all of you just tuning into the TGP market for the first time in several years let me clarify what Steve Grogan and I are both saying.

The TGP traffic trade takes a percentage of clicks and redirects them to ANOTHER TGP as part of the trade. So the user isnt taken to a competitors gallery or the content isnt used to go to another gallery -- only another TGP. Which yes increases your traffic by trading out with others in your trade network. Thats why is important to know the people that are submitting galleries as well as the people you are trading with.

The other board discussion came up when the Thumb was created and linked to a gallery page and not a trade.

Some of us are working on a trusted site that covers both aspects for all users of Oprano. More updates as progress is made.
You hit the nail on the head, Gonzo.. and the thing that this particular person isn't realizing, is that oftentimes their galleries will get listed on these other sites that the traffic is being directed to as well, so they aren't really losing out on anything. In the long run it means MORe traffic to their program, not less.
So because they MIGHT POSSIBLY be put on another TGP because of this thumb trade, they should be happy that their exclusive content is being linked to another TGP, and worse, to one that autoinstalls programs? Color me stupid, but I just don't see the "benefit" to anyone except the TGP owners and I see a definite detriment to the content owner. <_<

Now, if the content owner says "Dude, no problem. Link my pictures to other TGPs and that's cool" that's one thing. Sure doesn't look like that's the situation here, though. [/b][/quote]
Ok I definitely agree with the autoinstall thing. I know when we find tgps that are doing that shit, we pull their trades etc. That's not only bad for the surfer, it's bad business and you won't keep trades or traffic long doing that shit... however, if the trades are bring sent to good, productive tgps, chances are your gallery is going to be listed there too (I know the way a lot of people harvest tgps to submit to would dictate that this is a liklihood), so if they are going to click, they're going to click pretty much either way. And if a surfer wants to see what is behind a thumb badly enough, they simply go back on the browser and look anyways. They aren't stupid. How do I know this? I have access to a surfer board and I've asked them :P

[LadyMischief]

TGP, TGP Submitting etc is not a simple or quick process.. it's time-consuming, intensive, and for those who actually make money, requires thought and planning. The last person someone promoting a program wants to do is worry that their partner accounts are going to start recieiving cease and desist orders and their accounts are getting shut down because someone was unimpressed with a "skim" or traffic trade. The fact of the matter is, if a tgp is to grow, they need an infusion of traffic..and since nothing in life is free, it only makes sense that if you are getting traffic, you will be required to send traffic in return. This system ensure the continue productivity of tgps, and hence to the galleries listed there. Without clicks, no gallery will produce. Programs that make it more trouble than it's worth to submit galleries on their behalf simply won't be used. Why? Because there are 50 other programs that are willing to accept those 5 people who didn't get through to the gallery, maybe pushed the back button and had a 5 second inconvenience and actually looked at the gallery and clicked through to the site. TGP traffic can be an extremely valuable resource, however as soon as tgp owners are restricted and forced to comprimise the potential for c and ds or gaining traffic.. Well put yourself in their shoes. They already spend hours every day maintaining their system, in the cases of most large tgps.. If they have to sit and babysit and control every single spot and monitor every single gallery to ensure that someone who might not like it doesn't get "skimmed" or traded.. Well a few hours of work becomes 12, 15, 24 hours, considering the number of submissions the larger networks get. And are they supposed to keep a masterlist of the programs that don't want to be skimmed? Pretty soon it wouldn't be worthwhile at all. Comprimise is an important part of good business, but realizing when comprimise is moving in to the realm of sacrificing producitivity, profit, efficiency, etc, well.. It's not quite as worth it then.

[spazlabz]

Originally posted by cj@Aug 11 2004, 10:16 PM
Where my celeb content is concerned, I will not accept a tgp using the thumbs for the skim ... I'm happy to discuss alternative methods because i understand why the skim exists, I'll even code alternatives at our end if something else can be agreed upon, but for legal reasons, the thumbs can not be linked to anywhere else but these sites.
Ok CJ I wanted to address the point you made here about your celeb content. lets say I have a TGP thats getting maybe 50k raw a day, thats a great amount of hits. I get that because I run a script on my site (we'll call it CJUltra) I set my 'skim' at 30%. it's a bit high, but workable with good trades. Now I am not linking your thumb to anything BUT your gallery, it just so happens that out of every 10 clicks 3 of those will be redirected to another TGP.
Knowing how I would choose to do business I am not going to be doing any trades with TGPs that have questionable content on them. I mean really, what would it benefit me to link to a CP TGP or a beasty TGP? It wouldn't benefit me at all and could potentially cause me quite a bit of drama I don't want. So, all my trades are going to other good TGPs.
So I see Cleb Bling and go "OH OH OH! what great content. I think I will sign up as an affiliate and promote it heavily on my sites", using both galleries and banners. The galleries would include thumbs included on my fancy assed thumbs TGP.
You would come along, click on the thumb a few times, get redirected to another legit TGP and promptly cancel my affiliate account?
I am just curious because your answer will go a long way in determining who and how i promote other sponsors on my upcoming TGPs.
As for me, both being a sponsor and working for a large sponsor, I have the opinion that a skim is acceptable, as long as it isnt promoting another sponsor or something along those lines. By all means list my galleries if you have a skim so long as the skim is limited to traffic trades with other TGPs/MGPs


spaz :matey:

[spazlabz]

Originally posted by LadyMischief@Aug 12 2004, 05:45 AM
TGP, TGP Submitting etc is not a simple or quick process.. it's time-consuming, intensive, and for those who actually make money, requires thought and planning. The last person someone promoting a program wants to do is worry that their partner accounts are going to start recieiving cease and desist orders and their accounts are getting shut down because someone was unimpressed with a "skim" or traffic trade. The fact of the matter is, if a tgp is to grow, they need an infusion of traffic..and since nothing in life is free, it only makes sense that if you are getting traffic, you will be required to send traffic in return. This system ensure the continue productivity of tgps, and hence to the galleries listed there. Without clicks, no gallery will produce. Programs that make it more trouble than it's worth to submit galleries on their behalf simply won't be used. Why? Because there are 50 other programs that are willing to accept those 5 people who didn't get through to the gallery, maybe pushed the back button and had a 5 second inconvenience and actually looked at the gallery and clicked through to the site. TGP traffic can be an extremely valuable resource, however as soon as tgp owners are restricted and forced to comprimise the potential for c and ds or gaining traffic.. Well put yourself in their shoes. They already spend hours every day maintaining their system, in the cases of most large tgps.. If they have to sit and babysit and control every single spot and monitor every single gallery to ensure that someone who might not like it doesn't get "skimmed" or traded.. Well a few hours of work becomes 12, 15, 24 hours, considering the number of submissions the larger networks get. And are they supposed to keep a masterlist of the programs that don't want to be skimmed? Pretty soon it wouldn't be worthwhile at all. Comprimise is an important part of good business, but realizing when comprimise is moving in to the realm of sacrificing producitivity, profit, efficiency, etc, well.. It's not quite as worth it then.
:rokk: :wnw: :okthumb: :okthumb:


spaz :matey:

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by spazlabz+Aug 12 2004, 06:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (spazlabz @ Aug 12 2004, 06:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-cj@Aug 11 2004, 10:16 PM
Where my celeb content is concerned, I will not accept a tgp using the thumbs for the skim ... I'm happy to discuss alternative methods because i understand why the skim exists, I'll even code alternatives at our end if something else can be agreed upon, but for legal reasons, the thumbs can not be linked to anywhere else but these sites.
Ok CJ I wanted to address the point you made here about your celeb content. lets say I have a TGP thats getting maybe 50k raw a day, thats a great amount of hits. I get that because I run a script on my site (we'll call it CJUltra) I set my 'skim' at 30%. it's a bit high, but workable with good trades. Now I am not linking your thumb to anything BUT your gallery, it just so happens that out of every 10 clicks 3 of those will be redirected to another TGP.
Knowing how I would choose to do business I am not going to be doing any trades with TGPs that have questionable content on them. I mean really, what would it benefit me to link to a CP TGP or a beasty TGP? It wouldn't benefit me at all and could potentially cause me quite a bit of drama I don't want. So, all my trades are going to other good TGPs.
So I see Cleb Bling and go "OH OH OH! what great content. I think I will sign up as an affiliate and promote it heavily on my sites", using both galleries and banners. The galleries would include thumbs included on my fancy assed thumbs TGP.
You would come along, click on the thumb a few times, get redirected to another legit TGP and promptly cancel my affiliate account?
I am just curious because your answer will go a long way in determining who and how i promote other sponsors on my upcoming TGPs.
As for me, both being a sponsor and working for a large sponsor, I have the opinion that a skim is acceptable, as long as it isnt promoting another sponsor or something along those lines. By all means list my galleries if you have a skim so long as the skim is limited to traffic trades with other TGPs/MGPs


spaz :matey: [/b][/quote]
Good post

[Rolo]

I know that most TGP owners are too lazy and "old school" ;-))) to do this, but if they really wanted to be safe, then just have 2 pages - one with trades/skimming/galleries, and another with just galleries... now put that high quality content thumb on the page with no skimming, and filter your traffic to go to each page - problem solved...

Yeah - I read the argument about replacing the sponsors with another one who didn´t mind skimming, however I´m willing to bet that if the sponsor was the exclusive owner of the "Britney Spears fucking Bush, and Kerry - in a 3some with a strap on dildo" video, and the sponsor had hosted galleries, then many TGPs would find ways to combat their "old school" ideals about TGPs ;-)))

Also who knows, what TGPs will learn, when they start filtering between 2 pages - one with the concept of trade and the other to sell... they might even make more money, if they get creative with their scripts instead of running on auto pilot ;-)))

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by Dravyk+Aug 11 2004, 05:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dravyk @ Aug 11 2004, 05:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by SykkBoy@Aug 11 2004, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by Peaches@Aug 11 2004, 04:38 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Aug 11 2004, 05:34 PM
I don't give a fuck what any of you think!!!

According to this thread it is still 1998.

It says it is here!!! Look!!! Its 1998 (http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/index.php?showtopic=13239)



I'm going with that.

This board does not exist..

nah nah nah

Half of you are not even online

ahahahahahahahahaha

SWEEET :)



;-))))
Then no ones thought of skimming.........yet........... :D
but you can add consoles to your sites that NetPond sends decent toplist traffic to..........

and SykkBoy is the industry's favorite online writer (I wouldn't use the term "journalist")
And if you wait until midnight and keeping hitting reload on your index page you can get to the top of the YNOT list for the first six hours!! :yowsa: [/b][/quote]
Hey it worked!!! :)

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by LadyMischief@Aug 12 2004, 08:45 AM
TGP, TGP Submitting etc is not a simple or quick process.. it's time-consuming, intensive, and for those who actually make money, requires thought and planning. The last person someone promoting a program wants to do is worry that their partner accounts are going to start recieiving cease and desist orders and their accounts are getting shut down because someone was unimpressed with a "skim" or traffic trade. The fact of the matter is, if a tgp is to grow, they need an infusion of traffic..and since nothing in life is free, it only makes sense that if you are getting traffic, you will be required to send traffic in return. This system ensure the continue productivity of tgps, and hence to the galleries listed there. Without clicks, no gallery will produce. Programs that make it more trouble than it's worth to submit galleries on their behalf simply won't be used. Why? Because there are 50 other programs that are willing to accept those 5 people who didn't get through to the gallery, maybe pushed the back button and had a 5 second inconvenience and actually looked at the gallery and clicked through to the site. TGP traffic can be an extremely valuable resource, however as soon as tgp owners are restricted and forced to comprimise the potential for c and ds or gaining traffic.. Well put yourself in their shoes. They already spend hours every day maintaining their system, in the cases of most large tgps.. If they have to sit and babysit and control every single spot and monitor every single gallery to ensure that someone who might not like it doesn't get "skimmed" or traded.. Well a few hours of work becomes 12, 15, 24 hours, considering the number of submissions the larger networks get. And are they supposed to keep a masterlist of the programs that don't want to be skimmed? Pretty soon it wouldn't be worthwhile at all. Comprimise is an important part of good business, but realizing when comprimise is moving in to the realm of sacrificing producitivity, profit, efficiency, etc, well.. It's not quite as worth it then.
This is why communication with your sponsor is IMPORTANT. Why is it so hard to drop an email to the sponsor saying you're using them on a Thumb TGP?

Also, I do find it odd that a skim is fine for traffic trades, yet when we (as a sponsor) pop an exit console that the affiliate might not get 100% credit for, affiliates go insane and start shit on boards...hey, that's how WE trade traffic.

So, simply email your sponsor, keep in contact with them (or at least your sales rep if the program has one). So many of these issues and so much of this drama on the boards could be avoided by simple communication...and, yes that works both ways, for the affiliate and sponsor.

SO, want to use Evil Genius Cash on your Thumb TGP? Great, hit me up so I know our thumbs are ONLY being used for our galleries or traffic trades. Need other content? Custom content? Let's communicate. I'm flexible, I just don't like surprises....

I would ask the same respect from a mailer, yahoo group promoter, P2P marketer, "creative" marketer, etc.

sykkboy@evilgeniuscash.com and let's talk traffic

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by SykkBoy+Aug 12 2004, 08:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SykkBoy @ Aug 12 2004, 08:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-LadyMischief@Aug 12 2004, 08:45 AM
TGP, TGP Submitting etc is not a simple or quick process.. it's time-consuming, intensive, and for those who actually make money, requires thought and planning. The last person someone promoting a program wants to do is worry that their partner accounts are going to start recieiving cease and desist orders and their accounts are getting shut down because someone was unimpressed with a "skim" or traffic trade. The fact of the matter is, if a tgp is to grow, they need an infusion of traffic..and since nothing in life is free, it only makes sense that if you are getting traffic, you will be required to send traffic in return. This system ensure the continue productivity of tgps, and hence to the galleries listed there. Without clicks, no gallery will produce. Programs that make it more trouble than it's worth to submit galleries on their behalf simply won't be used. Why? Because there are 50 other programs that are willing to accept those 5 people who didn't get through to the gallery, maybe pushed the back button and had a 5 second inconvenience and actually looked at the gallery and clicked through to the site. TGP traffic can be an extremely valuable resource, however as soon as tgp owners are restricted and forced to comprimise the potential for c and ds or gaining traffic.. Well put yourself in their shoes. They already spend hours every day maintaining their system, in the cases of most large tgps.. If they have to sit and babysit and control every single spot and monitor every single gallery to ensure that someone who might not like it doesn't get "skimmed" or traded.. Well a few hours of work becomes 12, 15, 24 hours, considering the number of submissions the larger networks get. And are they supposed to keep a masterlist of the programs that don't want to be skimmed? Pretty soon it wouldn't be worthwhile at all. Comprimise is an important part of good business, but realizing when comprimise is moving in to the realm of sacrificing producitivity, profit, efficiency, etc, well.. It's not quite as worth it then.
This is why communication with your sponsor is IMPORTANT. Why is it so hard to drop an email to the sponsor saying you're using them on a Thumb TGP?

Also, I do find it odd that a skim is fine for traffic trades, yet when we (as a sponsor) pop an exit console that the affiliate might not get 100% credit for, affiliates go insane and start shit on boards...hey, that's how WE trade traffic.

So, simply email your sponsor, keep in contact with them (or at least your sales rep if the program has one). So many of these issues and so much of this drama on the boards could be avoided by simple communication...and, yes that works both ways, for the affiliate and sponsor.

SO, want to use Evil Genius Cash on your Thumb TGP? Great, hit me up so I know our thumbs are ONLY being used for our galleries or traffic trades. Need other content? Custom content? Let's communicate. I'm flexible, I just don't like surprises....

I would ask the same respect from a mailer, yahoo group promoter, P2P marketer, "creative" marketer, etc.

sykkboy@evilgeniuscash.com and let's talk traffic [/b][/quote]
And I totally agree with you, communication is absolutely essential between sponsors/affiliates/tgps... I don't see why so many people are taking the "my way or the highway" attitude. I know for myself, a lot of my best traffic is tgp (and I have oodles), and I have many sponsors that come to me with new sites in order to brand them, and they continue to do so. Yes, the tgps pretty much all skim, but I can also guarantee they aren't going to a competitor's page, someplace with scumware, bullshit, or anything else. A program having control over their content is a must, however, people going crazy because of tgp trade scripts perhaps taking a few clicks from their gallery is a little ridiculous.. If people are so worried about it, they shouldn't allow counters on the same page as their content either, considering people do click on the counter. It's back to that whole comprimise thing, but of course, comprimise goes BOTH ways... I find the vast majority of the good tgps are willing to work with programs on a continuing basis, but at the same time, the programs need to find the flexbility to deal with the tgps on a level where everyone can benifit. If one expects the other to radically change the way they do business, it's going a little too far. A fine balance with REASONABLE expectations is all I think anyone ever asked. Extremism really has no place in business anyways.

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by LadyMischief@Aug 12 2004, 01:34 PM
I find the vast majority of the good tgps are willing to work with programs on a continuing basis, but at the same time, the programs need to find the flexbility to deal with the tgps on a level where everyone can benifit. If one expects the other to radically change the way they do business, it's going a little too far. A fine balance with REASONABLE expectations is all I think anyone ever asked. Extremism really has no place in business anyways.
see, I find the opposite...most TGPs are run entirely on scripts and they are imperfect...

The other day I asked for TGP's that would allow me, with a partner account, to post the large pics on html and very few would allow it. Well, even some of those who said it was ok...their scripts rejected the galleries, so I was unable to submit them anyways...

I also had a TGP owner freak out because I had a webmaster link at the bottom of my gallery (I find this is a good way to get webmasters because when they are surfing the TGP they want to submit to, they often surf the galleries and might see mine and want to promote it). I see very few of them being flexible and then they expect flexibility. They don't want the (sponsor) site they send to to have consoles, yet they often open links in new windows, skim traffic, etc.

I find it humorous that everyone expects flexibility and yet few seem to want to extend it to others (and yes, that includes sponsors as well ;-))

[Dravyk]

And if you wait until midnight and keeping hitting reload on your index page you can get to the top of the YNOT list for the first six hours!! :yowsa:
Hey it worked!!! :)
hehe! Yes, it certainly did! :bdance:

Speaking of old shit ... I looked just the other day and saw I still hold one of the top positions (for four or five years now) on Push's Anarchy Links. B)

[Peaches]

OK, I asked an owner of a large, well known and long time TGP what he would have done in this situation. He said he would have pulled the thumb/gallery even if the sponsor didn't cancel his affiliate account and if the sponsor wanted to cancel, that was fine. In fact, he said he's done it MANY times :) . And this was before he knew it was guy's wife, the TGP was on a free host and the link was taking the surfer to an autodownload script. :awinky:

He may be the only person who agrees with me that the content owner has the right to cancel an affiliate if s/he disapproves of how his content is used and it took me traveling several hundred miles to find him, but at least I know I'm not COMPLETELY nuts. :yowsa:

BTW, nice, sunny, humid and HOT here in FLL - no Charley yet :)

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by SykkBoy+Aug 12 2004, 10:53 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SykkBoy @ Aug 12 2004, 10:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-LadyMischief@Aug 12 2004, 01:34 PM
I find the vast majority of the good tgps are willing to work with programs on a continuing basis, but at the same time, the programs need to find the flexbility to deal with the tgps on a level where everyone can benifit. If one expects the other to radically change the way they do business, it's going a little too far. A fine balance with REASONABLE expectations is all I think anyone ever asked. Extremism really has no place in business anyways.
see, I find the opposite...most TGPs are run entirely on scripts and they are imperfect...

The other day I asked for TGP's that would allow me, with a partner account, to post the large pics on html and very few would allow it. Well, even some of those who said it was ok...their scripts rejected the galleries, so I was unable to submit them anyways...

I also had a TGP owner freak out because I had a webmaster link at the bottom of my gallery (I find this is a good way to get webmasters because when they are surfing the TGP they want to submit to, they often surf the galleries and might see mine and want to promote it). I see very few of them being flexible and then they expect flexibility. They don't want the (sponsor) site they send to to have consoles, yet they often open links in new windows, skim traffic, etc.

I find it humorous that everyone expects flexibility and yet few seem to want to extend it to others (and yes, that includes sponsors as well ;-)) [/b][/quote]
I said *GOOD* tgps... and if you hit me up, we can discuss it more :)

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by Peaches@Aug 12 2004, 01:04 PM
OK, I asked an owner of a large, well known and long time TGP what he would have done in this situation. He said he would have pulled the thumb/gallery even if the sponsor didn't cancel his affiliate account and if the sponsor wanted to cancel, that was fine. In fact, he said he's done it MANY times :) . And this was before he knew it was guy's wife, the TGP was on a free host and the link was taking the surfer to an autodownload script. :awinky:

He may be the only person who agrees with me that the content owner has the right to cancel an affiliate if s/he disapproves of how his content is used and it took me traveling several hundred miles to find him, but at least I know I'm not COMPLETELY nuts. :yowsa:

BTW, nice, sunny, humid and HOT here in FLL - no Charley yet :)
I agree they have the right to do so, that was never a question. I feel program owners should have control over their content.. However I do feel that pulling content simply because tgps trade traffic is a little bit extreme.

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by LadyMischief+Aug 12 2004, 04:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LadyMischief @ Aug 12 2004, 04:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by SykkBoy@Aug 12 2004, 10:53 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-LadyMischief@Aug 12 2004, 01:34 PM
I find the vast majority of the good tgps are willing to work with programs on a continuing basis, but at the same time, the programs need to find the flexbility to deal with the tgps on a level where everyone can benifit. If one expects the other to radically change the way they do business, it's going a little too far. A fine balance with REASONABLE expectations is all I think anyone ever asked. Extremism really has no place in business anyways.
see, I find the opposite...most TGPs are run entirely on scripts and they are imperfect...

The other day I asked for TGP's that would allow me, with a partner account, to post the large pics on html and very few would allow it. Well, even some of those who said it was ok...their scripts rejected the galleries, so I was unable to submit them anyways...

I also had a TGP owner freak out because I had a webmaster link at the bottom of my gallery (I find this is a good way to get webmasters because when they are surfing the TGP they want to submit to, they often surf the galleries and might see mine and want to promote it). I see very few of them being flexible and then they expect flexibility. They don't want the (sponsor) site they send to to have consoles, yet they often open links in new windows, skim traffic, etc.

I find it humorous that everyone expects flexibility and yet few seem to want to extend it to others (and yes, that includes sponsors as well ;-))
I said *GOOD* tgps... and if you hit me up, we can discuss it more :) [/b][/quote]
um, shall I send smoke signals?

;-)))

[Hell Puppy]

Originally posted by Peaches@Aug 12 2004, 06:50 AM

Seriously, what is so freaking hard to understand this?


That's what I'm trying to figure out too!

Geeze, it just amazes me that you guys, especially since you're IN the content biz, are saying someone doesn't have the right to STOP doing business with someone who uses their content when they don't want them to! :unsure:

I'm not sure where or how you're reading into this that anyone denies that a sponsor can terminate a relationship with an affiliate for any reason.

I agree 100% on that point.

I'd like to know who the sponsors are who have a problem with the TGP skim, so I can be sure not to accidently promote their stuff. I'd encourage 'em to put it in their T&C explicitely so there's no hard feelings.

But in this case a sponsor DID care, terminated the relationship and demanded the thumbs be removed. Why on God's green earth you guys are so bent out of shape because this one guy doesn't want to play in your sandbox is beyond me. :blink:

Bent out of shape? I'm just amused. To me, it's so stupid that it's funny.

Here's what I mean. The guy builds himself a pay site and sets up an affiliate program. And he builds and provides galleries and content for these "tgp thingies" obviously with no fucking clue about how they work and then when he stumbles across one and discovers the skim he has kittens.

Almost all TGP's skim...period. It's part of the traffic model that is the TGP game today. If you encourage your content to be used on them, it is going to be skimmed. It's just as stupid as providing the free content and then freaking out because someone is posting it without requring a credit card for access and kids might see it. It exhibits a basic lack of understanding of the industry they are trying to play in.

Bottom line - if a sponsor doesn't care, then it's a non-issue and this would have NEVER come up.

You ducked my direct question.

Are Thumb TGPs risking their paychecks by skimming galleries provided by WEG and Purecash?

The answer is obviously yes for Celebrity Bling.

The answer is "maybe" for Evil Genius.....Sykk is dancing the two-step....

Here's MY bottom line... If you submit galleries to my TGP's, I'm gonna skim up to 30%. If I list a sponsors galleries, I'm gonna skim those too, so I'd like to know who has a problem with it so I can make sure I dont list 'em.

I will add one caveat. Remember I'm a tech geek, I sometimes do "interesting things" with the code and sql that builds my pages. Gimme a sponsor who has the shave turned down and is converting well and I'm prone to turn the skim down or off on their stuff because I want to push as much traffic as I possibly can to them.


P.S.: You took the nasty weather with you to Florida. Since noon it has been absolutely wonderful up here, clear, sunny, temperature in the mid-70's with a slight breeze all day....

[cj]

Originally posted by LadyMischief@Aug 12 2004, 01:34 PM
Also, I do find it odd that a skim is fine for traffic trades, yet when we (as a sponsor) pop an exit console that the affiliate might not get 100% credit for, affiliates go insane and start shit on boards...hey, that's how WE trade traffic.
good point!!! This is so true ...

the 'us' and 'them' feeling between sponsors and affiliates is getting worse by the minute ... both parties expect & demand the world, and bitch when it doesn't work that way.

If only we could all realize we are on the same side - we both want money from a surfer & the lions share for ourselves!! We just disagree on the ways to go about getting it ;-)

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by SykkBoy+Aug 12 2004, 01:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SykkBoy @ Aug 12 2004, 01:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by LadyMischief@Aug 12 2004, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Aug 12 2004, 10:53 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-LadyMischief@Aug 12 2004, 01:34 PM
I find the vast majority of the good tgps are willing to work with programs on a continuing basis, but at the same time, the programs need to find the flexbility to deal with the tgps on a level where everyone can benifit. If one expects the other to radically change the way they do business, it's going a little too far. A fine balance with REASONABLE expectations is all I think anyone ever asked. Extremism really has no place in business anyways.
see, I find the opposite...most TGPs are run entirely on scripts and they are imperfect...

The other day I asked for TGP's that would allow me, with a partner account, to post the large pics on html and very few would allow it. Well, even some of those who said it was ok...their scripts rejected the galleries, so I was unable to submit them anyways...

I also had a TGP owner freak out because I had a webmaster link at the bottom of my gallery (I find this is a good way to get webmasters because when they are surfing the TGP they want to submit to, they often surf the galleries and might see mine and want to promote it). I see very few of them being flexible and then they expect flexibility. They don't want the (sponsor) site they send to to have consoles, yet they often open links in new windows, skim traffic, etc.

I find it humorous that everyone expects flexibility and yet few seem to want to extend it to others (and yes, that includes sponsors as well ;-))
I said *GOOD* tgps... and if you hit me up, we can discuss it more :)
um, shall I send smoke signals?

;-))) [/b][/quote]
sorry :) Icq 3522039 or treasure at teeniesxxx dot com

[cj]

Originally posted by spazlabz+Aug 12 2004, 09:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (spazlabz @ Aug 12 2004, 09:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-cj@Aug 11 2004, 10:16 PM
Where my celeb content is concerned, I will not accept a tgp using the thumbs for the skim ... I'm happy to discuss alternative methods because i understand why the skim exists, I'll even code alternatives at our end if something else can be agreed upon, but for legal reasons, the thumbs can not be linked to anywhere else but these sites.
Ok CJ I wanted to address the point you made here about your celeb content. lets say I have a TGP thats getting maybe 50k raw a day, thats a great amount of hits. I get that because I run a script on my site (we'll call it CJUltra) I set my 'skim' at 30%. it's a bit high, but workable with good trades. Now I am not linking your thumb to anything BUT your gallery, it just so happens that out of every 10 clicks 3 of those will be redirected to another TGP. [/b][/quote]
If clicking on a thumb takes the surfer any place but to 1) the large pic (on a html page of course!) or 2) the sponsors site, then you *are* linking to something other than my gallery ...

I know technically you didn't touch it and we can debate this technicality all day, but your script did cause my thumbs to be linking to somewhere other than my sites/galleries/pics ... I understand why, I understand the TGP community does it this way and that's just how it is. But it doesn't change the fact that a thumbnail of cameron diaz from a charlies angels movie still may have, via a script, been redirected to HORNY HALS HARDCORE ANAL TGP or whatever.

My galleries are a very different story to a standard porn site & content ... I'm trying to skate a fine line between 'naughty' and 'not getting sued'!!!! LOL


Knowing how I would choose to do business I am not going to be doing any trades with TGPs that have questionable content on them. I mean really, what would it benefit me to link to a CP TGP or a beasty TGP? It wouldn't benefit me at all and could potentially cause me quite a bit of drama I don't want. So, all my trades are going to other good TGPs.
So I see Cleb Bling and go "OH OH OH! what great content. I think I will sign up as an affiliate and promote it heavily on my sites", using both galleries and banners. The galleries would include thumbs included on my fancy assed thumbs TGP.
You would come along, click on the thumb a few times, get redirected to another legit TGP and promptly cancel my affiliate account?
I am just curious because your answer will go a long way in determining who and how i promote other sponsors on my upcoming TGPs.
As for me, both being a sponsor and working for a large sponsor, I have the opinion that a skim is acceptable, as long as it isnt promoting another sponsor or something along those lines. By all means list my galleries if you have a skim so long as the skim is limited to traffic trades with other TGPs/MGPs
spaz :matey:

Here's where the varying definition of 'questionable' content comes into it based on the specific market i'm working in ... using my example above, basically what i'm trying to say is that i'm trying to find a way to publish mainstream content on a tgp without any potential legal issues arising. what if I set a rule that you could only skim traffic to softcore sites?! ie, bikini models etc? How much control do you have over where the skim goes on a per gallery basis? Is this a rediculous request?

Firstly, these galleries will only be available to tgp *owners* and a handful of submitters - so i'm only working with people i know and trust ... so no, I would never cancel an affiliate account in the case above. The only time I cancel affiliates and never look back is for illegal content & auto installing stuff - you'll be surprised to know i have recently emailed a few toolbar installers to warn them i was cancelling their account rather than just redirecting the traffic like i wanted to do LOL

Everyone else gets an email/icq and a 'request' to make adjustments. As has been said several times in this thread - good communication between sponsor and affiliate and compromise on both sides prevents 99% of problems. *I* am flexible, but I have a different set of laws to follow than most - the benefits are worth the extra effort, because so few have done this legally.

Spaz, if I clicked on a thumb on your tgp and it was being redirected to a beasty site i would STILL email you and i would not touch your affiliate account unless i couldn't get ahold of you ... because you probably wouldn't know it was there yourself ... If Labret wanted to use these galleries, i'd probably say no :biglaugh: Know your sponsor & Know your affiliate :okthumb:

LM, Excellent posts, thank you ... like you said, too much compromising ends up defeating the purpose of the project ...

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Aug 12 2004, 07:46 PM

The answer is "maybe" for Evil Genius.....Sykk is dancing the two-step....

wrong

I'm simply asking that you provide the same courtesy that my mailers, p2p promoters, yahoo groups promoters, etc. do

if you are using a sponsor's content or promoting a sponsor in a way that MIGHT cause problems, why is it so hard to drop an email and say "is this ok?"

I get emails all the time from affiliates asking if they can promote us in a certain way and most of the time the answer is "yes".

OK, so you want to promote EGC with a 30% skim, great. Hit me up and let me know the account so I can keep an eye on it and if my boss comes to me and says "hey, what's this affiliate doing?" I can answer.

All I ask is that the skim goes to a trade and not a competing sponsor. Just like I wouldn't link your recip button to another TGP.

You have to understand where the sponsor is coming from as well. We pay a lot of money for content and like to know what's happening with our content. Imagine if you sent traffic to us and we skimmed 30% and didn't pay you for it. It's simply a communications thing.

I'm very big on communicating with affiliates, so email me, ICQ me, send me smoke signals, let's keep a line of communication open and that way everyone makes money and no one has a misunderstanding that causes one or both sides to avoid making money.

[cj]

Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Aug 12 2004, 07:46 PM
The answer is obviously yes for Celebrity Bling.
How about you leave the Celebrity Bling rules up to me :okthumb:

I guess I can put you on the list of stubborn, non-flexible tgp owners who don't want to move forward into this century with auto-updating galleries featuring daily updated text news and open up your audience to material they haven't already seen a thousand times?!

Good to know in advance :okthumb:

[Hell Puppy]

Originally posted by cj+Aug 12 2004, 08:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (cj @ Aug 12 2004, 08:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Hell Puppy@Aug 12 2004, 07:46 PM
The answer is obviously yes for Celebrity Bling.
How about you leave the Celebrity Bling rules up to me :okthumb:

I guess I can put you on the list of stubborn, non-flexible tgp owners who don't want to move forward into this century with auto-updating galleries featuring daily updated text news and open up your audience to material they haven't already seen a thousand times?!

Good to know in advance :okthumb: [/b][/quote]
Phew, I thought I was gonna get left out and not get some of those Aussie flames!

:cdance:

You said you couldn't legally allow your thumbs to be linked to anything other than your own stuff. Sounds like rules against skimming being defined to me!

I know you really dont like the TGP model. The only way you'll see it change though is to come up with an idea that will yield more traffic or more money. They're no more going to be open to suggestions that do not benefit their business than you are.

Celebrity Bling would work much better for all of it's affiliates if you'd pay $45 per free signup! But I'm sure you wont do that because you're inflexible! :okthumb:

Just another sponsor looking out for yourself, good to know in advance! :okthumb:

[cj]

now you are just being an idiot ...

should *I* get out the crayons!?!?

>>Celebrity Bling would work much better for all of it's affiliates if you'd pay $45 per free signup! But I'm sure you wont do that because you're inflexible!

Not paying $45 per free signup makes me inflexible?!?!?! LMAO What a stupid thing to say on so many levels .... I asked a question about the flexibility of how the skim works and you respond with this? Your telling me that being flexible on the skim would cost you as much as it would cost me to pay $45 per free join?!?!?

LMAO

>Just another sponsor looking out for yourself, good to know in advance!

yeah ok HP, that's why i'm trying to have a discussion with tgp owners about alternatives to the standard skim procedure which will work for both tgp webmaster and sponsor, & you are carrying on like your skim is the secret of the freaking universe. Here you are defending your SHAVE as if you will go broke without it?!

Talk about the shoes switching feet.

You can accuse me of a lot of things, but looking out for myself over others has never been something i've been guilty of. :moon:

From what your telling me, no tgp can survive without skimming traffic from every single gallery, and that if they aren't allowed to skim, they won't list your galleries at all?!

Simple question ... lmk if you want me to type slower.

[Hell Puppy]

Damn girl, are we even reading the same messages?

It's like we aren't even speaking the same language here all of the sudden. Now if you just wanna trade insults and call each other a dumb ass, that can be fun sometimes, but I kinda prefer to talk biz.

Try to see this from both sides. That's the point I was trying to make. Telling a TGP webmaster not to skim sounds just as crazy to him or her as him telling you that you need to switch to some insane payout scheme.

Outside of the true monster-sized sites like The Hun, the typical TGP gets 50-70% of it's visitors from trades originating off the skim. How can that be you ask? Here's the secret, on a good TGP, english speaking traffic that hasn't been jerked around will typically click a number of galleries. The TGP lets them have the gallery the majority of the time, but a certain percentage of the time they're gonna get bumped over to a trade. The trades themselves work like an oldschool toplist, the more you can send out, the more the site you're trading with sends back. Everyone grows.

There's a lot more factors than that at work to make it successful and make a buck off of it at the same time. But this is essentially why the removing the skim cant be on the table when you talk about improving the TGP game. You'd have to have an idea that makes up for a TON of traffic.

That doesn't make 'em "inflexible", there are other thing that CAN be brought to the table. There are needs in the TGP community. The TGP webmasters have a hell of a battle right now with the cat and mouse game currently being played by fuckers with toolbars, etc. There's an opportunity to establish networks of trust and business while tapping that traffic.

And for the sponsors, if you actually read my messages, remember my caveat. It's all sql and dynamic and it's VERY powerful with a geek at the helm. On my TGPs the thumbs that are MOST likely to get clicked are going to pull up a gallery everytime....or take you directly to a tour in some cases. And in each case it's my sponsors if not my own paysites.

There's opportunities to work together. But so far on Oprano there's a pattern of wanting to change the TGP world rather than work with it.

Or we can just go ahead and insult each other. I've got some great PMS references and mama jokes. :gbounce:

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Aug 13 2004, 01:25 AM
Damn girl, are we even reading the same messages?

It's like we aren't even speaking the same language here all of the sudden. Now if you just wanna trade insults and call each other a dumb ass, that can be fun sometimes, but I kinda prefer to talk biz.

Try to see this from both sides. That's the point I was trying to make. Telling a TGP webmaster not to skim sounds just as crazy to him or her as him telling you that you need to switch to some insane payout scheme.

Outside of the true monster-sized sites like The Hun, the typical TGP gets 50-70% of it's visitors from trades originating off the skim. How can that be you ask? Here's the secret, on a good TGP, english speaking traffic that hasn't been jerked around will typically click a number of galleries. The TGP lets them have the gallery the majority of the time, but a certain percentage of the time they're gonna get bumped over to a trade. The trades themselves work like an oldschool toplist, the more you can send out, the more the site you're trading with sends back. Everyone grows.

There's a lot more factors than that at work to make it successful and make a buck off of it at the same time. But this is essentially why the removing the skim cant be on the table when you talk about improving the TGP game. You'd have to have an idea that makes up for a TON of traffic.

That doesn't make 'em "inflexible", there are other thing that CAN be brought to the table. There are needs in the TGP community. The TGP webmasters have a hell of a battle right now with the cat and mouse game currently being played by fuckers with toolbars, etc. There's an opportunity to establish networks of trust and business while tapping that traffic.

And for the sponsors, if you actually read my messages, remember my caveat. It's all sql and dynamic and it's VERY powerful with a geek at the helm. On my TGPs the thumbs that are MOST likely to get clicked are going to pull up a gallery everytime....or take you directly to a tour in some cases. And in each case it's my sponsors if not my own paysites.

There's opportunities to work together. But so far on Oprano there's a pattern of wanting to change the TGP world rather than work with it.

Or we can just go ahead and insult each other. I've got some great PMS references and mama jokes. :gbounce:
First off, I don't make the decisions on how content is used for either WEG or Purecash. I'm guessing you know the answer already for Purecash (and are just TRYING to be an asshole B) ) and if you want me to do it for you, I'll ask Jason tomorrow about WEG. I would ASSume it would be 100% fine with him. :)

You're acting as if this an assault on the TGPs who skim. You couldn't be more wrong. We all know they skim. We know they've skimmed and we know they will continue to skim. No one, at least not me, is trying to tell them to run their business any differently. I submit galleries to TGPs and I'm betting every single one of them skims. But if I was submitting my picture (there's a scary thought), and hits were being sent to site that did something I was against - autodownloading, Beasty, CP - , I'd be telling the TGP to take my gallery down.

*I* just have a problem with a TGP telling a program owner that they need to accept it and deal with it. No, they don't. They can submit to TGPs that don't send traffic to an autodownloader. They can submit to other TGPs that don't skim. They can stop submitting to TGPs. They can close up shop. :awinky:

I wonder what would have happened if some of YOUR content was being sent to a site that autodownloaded Hooper's tool bar and Hooper was making $$$$ with 50% of the clicks to your content. :nyanya:

Now I'm going to sit here and be pissed that the wind and lightning seem to be dying down and I can't leave my window open because of the stupid assed people on the street blowing their damn horns! Times like this I miss my log cabin in the solitude (where WeatherBug says it's 62 degrees - but damn 88% humidity??! :( )

[Dravyk]

Hell Puppy, somewhere in this labyrinthine discussion, I think everyone else turned one way and you turned the other. :unsure:

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Dravyk@Aug 13 2004, 02:45 AM
Hell Puppy, somewhere in this labyrinthine discussion, I think everyone else turned one way and you turned the other. :unsure:
I think there 3 possible scenarios here:

1) We are talking about two totally different things and neither camp realizes it
2) HP has stopped producing content
3) HP has been kidnapped by aliens, is currently getting an anal probe and this is his temporary replacement

If he walks funny the next time we see him, we'll know....................... :unsure:

[Dravyk]

LOL! I think you're right, Peaches.

... About everything! :rolleyes:

[Hell Puppy]

Originally posted by Peaches+Aug 13 2004, 09:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Aug 13 2004, 09:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Dravyk@Aug 13 2004, 02:45 AM
Hell Puppy, somewhere in this labyrinthine discussion, I think everyone else turned one way and you turned the other. :unsure:
I think there 3 possible scenarios here:

1) We are talking about two totally different things and neither camp realizes it
2) HP has stopped producing content
3) HP has been kidnapped by aliens, is currently getting an anal probe and this is his temporary replacement

If he walks funny the next time we see him, we'll know....................... :unsure: [/b][/quote]
It's actually number 4.

Though there may be some of number 1 in there as well. All due respect to everyone involved, but I'm rapidly becoming convinced that unless you've tried running both a TGP and a paysite you cant understand all issues of both sides.

As for my content being linked to kiddie porn, beastie content or whatever. Yeah, of course I'd kill the affiliate, but it has nothing to do with the hot linked content itself, it's just I dont wanna do business with anyone doing CP and whatnot.

But no, I dont care if they skim one of my thumbs from the preview page. I accept it as nature of the beast. But I also have two other things in my back pockets that I've learned from being on both sides:

1) For a user who is interested enough that he might actually join, the skimmed link wont deter him most of the time. If a girl or subject matter really catchs his eye and he gets redirected, he'll mutter under his breath and click it again. Again, i'm a geek, I analyze my stats and logs like a stockbroker analyzes charts.

2) Any content I release for TGP posting is pretty much a throw away to me. I've yet to give away a single pic that shows pink. If they're enticed enough by the rest of the image to wanna see that, it'll pull 'em to the tour. Then it's in my hands as the paysite owner to close the deal. And that's all I can ask for.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going outside and explain quantum physics to one of the rocks in my yard. :P

[gonzo]

I've always been willing to try anything new...realizing you have to break dem eggs for an omlette.

Content aint king.....traffic is.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by gonzo@Aug 13 2004, 08:48 PM

Content aint king.....traffic is.
I love you :)

I said that years ago.

Now traffic is King , what you do with it is the Emperor.

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Aug 13 2004, 11:12 PM
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going outside and explain quantum physics to one of the rocks in my yard. :P
You could teach me how to do math in my head - same results. :P

[gonzo]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Aug 13 2004, 11:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Aug 13 2004, 11:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-gonzo@Aug 13 2004, 08:48 PM

Content aint king.....traffic is.
I love you :)

I said that years ago.

Now traffic is King , what you do with it is the Emperor. [/b][/quote]
Absinthe is the devils nectar.

Nick you florished under emperour pt barnum.

Emperour david ogilve and sam walton have begun their rule.

Interesting note....I witnessed my first real life shave tonight... I've seen several parties that shaved that webmaster ass by using pt barnum as a guide line. Promise em free booze and an over the top party....hype it real hard and deliver a cash bar, and a paty that's so cheesy that kraft was pulled up in the back to take away the excess and a return shuttle ride that a nigger has to pay for if you want to leave early.

I especially liked the one that had 6 sponsors and all the free beer you could drink as long as it didn't exceed one keg.

Free the player haters ball!!

Oh and FREE WISEMAN!!!

[cj]

Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Aug 13 2004, 12:25 AM
Try to see this from both sides. That's the point I was trying to make. Telling a TGP webmaster not to skim sounds just as crazy to him or her as him telling you that you need to switch to some insane payout scheme.
Before we continue ...

I never said anything about REMOVING the skim, I have been asking how many ways it can be applied that don't involve the photos. I didn't throw the first childish insult my dear ... posting after a few too many scotches the other day were you!?

On the subject of the skim. You go to your sponsor all the time and say 'i want credit for exits' and 'i demand you stop doing this or i won't promote you' etc. i'm giving tgp's conditions on how my galleries can be used.

And before I set those conditions, I'd like to understand what's possible, and how far you will bother to vary your system to suit a specific sponsors needs.

In my case, linking the thumbs to a porn tgp has legal consequences with unnecessarily high risk ... but I can have text links or toplists for other tgp's (that you are skimming to), rows of porn thumbs at the bottom of the page on the gallery pages or any other addition you may require to ensure MY THUMBS don't link to other tgp's.

Your thread experiment backfired ... what you and gonzo were using to sniff out sponsors has resulted in my fortunate finding of some tgp onwers who I'm looking forward to doing business with, and those who I know not to bother approaching :okthumb:

[XXXPhoto]

The number of rules an affiliate has to follow is inversely proportional to the total dollars they make a sponsor...

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by cj+Aug 15 2004, 01:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (cj @ Aug 15 2004, 01:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Hell Puppy@Aug 13 2004, 12:25 AM
Try to see this from both sides. That's the point I was trying to make. Telling a TGP webmaster not to skim sounds just as crazy to him or her as him telling you that you need to switch to some insane payout scheme.
Before we continue ...

I never said anything about REMOVING the skim, I have been asking how many ways it can be applied that don't involve the photos. I didn't throw the first childish insult my dear ... posting after a few too many scotches the other day were you!?

On the subject of the skim. You go to your sponsor all the time and say 'i want credit for exits' and 'i demand you stop doing this or i won't promote you' etc. i'm giving tgp's conditions on how my galleries can be used.

And before I set those conditions, I'd like to understand what's possible, and how far you will bother to vary your system to suit a specific sponsors needs.

In my case, linking the thumbs to a porn tgp has legal consequences with unnecessarily high risk ... but I can have text links or toplists for other tgp's (that you are skimming to), rows of porn thumbs at the bottom of the page on the gallery pages or any other addition you may require to ensure MY THUMBS don't link to other tgp's.

Your thread experiment backfired ... what you and gonzo were using to sniff out sponsors has resulted in my fortunate finding of some tgp onwers who I'm looking forward to doing business with, and those who I know not to bother approaching :okthumb: [/b][/quote]
Well one thing to know, paid spots will likely be more flexible than general submissions. Most tgp owners are more flexable that way, for obvious reasons :)

[Dravyk]

Originally posted by XXXPhoto@Aug 15 2004, 01:32 PM
The number of rules an affiliate has to follow is inversely proportional to the total dollars they make a sponsor...
You get one of these! :pearl:

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by XXXPhoto@Aug 15 2004, 08:32 AM
The number of rules an affiliate has to follow is inversely proportional to the total dollars they make a sponsor...
This is quite true as well.

[cj]

Originally posted by XXXPhoto@Aug 15 2004, 11:32 AM
The number of rules an affiliate has to follow is inversely proportional to the total dollars they make a sponsor...
Why?

If I were to make a rule that tgp's had to have pics on html pages, would THAT make the affiliate less money? What about no pink in galleries? ... what about not being able to publish certain galleries in certain places? What about not letting affiliates do things which will cause chargebacks?

Plenty of rules a sponsor could come up with that would HELP the affiliate make more dollars, not less ... to assume that sponsors put rules in place so that affiliates will make LESS money is just rediculous. Rules are to PROTECT the sponsor from affiliates doing things which later causes the sponsor problems. Your statement says that if a sponsor is trying to protect themselves, they are screwing the affiliate (and themselves) out of making money?!

:rolleyes:

But we aren't talking about sponsors making rules, we are talking about TGP's making rules and refusing to adjust them in any way - even to bring content in which would keep surfers.

But as HP has informed us:

"All due respect to everyone involved, but I'm rapidly becoming convinced that unless you've tried running both a TGP and a paysite you cant understand all issues of both sides. "

LMAO
Nobody knows as much about this subject as HP, therefore we are all wrong and he is right :rolleyes:

Thanks for opening our eyes HP - its a pity that with all your years of experience at both tgp's AND paysites, you still couldn't share a single piece of productive information with us in this thread. :awinky:

[Hell Puppy]

Originally posted by cj@Aug 15 2004, 04:36 AM

Your thread experiment backfired ... what you and gonzo were using to sniff out sponsors has resulted in my fortunate finding of some tgp onwers who I'm looking forward to doing business with, and those who I know not to bother approaching :okthumb:
Funny, I was thinking the same thing!

[Hell Puppy]

Originally posted by cj@Aug 15 2004, 08:42 PM

LMAO
Nobody knows as much about this subject as HP, therefore we are all wrong and he is right :rolleyes:

Thanks for opening our eyes HP - its a pity that with all your years of experience at both tgp's AND paysites, you still couldn't share a single piece of productive information with us in this thread. :awinky:

CJ,

I respect your opinion, really, I do. And I have honestly been trying to discuss this thing in a business like manner. I think after all of the gnawing and gnashing of teeth is done there's things to be learned on both sides.

However, when the subject of TGPs comes up, you really let the venom fly and seem to so strongly disapprove of the current model that you want to re-design it. And anyone who disagrees is a moron.

The conclusions I've drawn from this thread are:

1) There's still a lot of hard headed people here where TGP's are concerned....on both sides.

2) Some sponsors do not like redirects off preview thumbs, but most of them tolerate it because they want the traffic.

3) Both TGP owners and sponsors become very flexible if the money is right.

Now, if you'll excuse me, today I'm teaching my rock 370 assembly language.

[cj]

>Now, if you'll excuse me, today I'm teaching my rock 370 assembly language.

yeah you are really trying to discuss this thing in a business like manner :okthumb:

It appears that while you have been trying to teach your rock, your head got stuck under it.

So before you lecture me anymore about what you call my 'general dislike for the tgp model', know that while I dislike the model I think its too late to change it and that the generic paysite model will fall before the tgp model will.

Its this simple ... nobody wants to pay for anything if they can help it, so there will always be more demand for free porn than there are for paysites - what surfers want, someone will give them because their EYES are what is valuable. Conversions on most paysite niches are not worth bothering with anymore for me, my women's and gay sites are the only sites that have stayed pretty consistent throughout the years.

I have been offered good $ on many occasions for ad spots on purve, i've always declined because the site was there for affiliates to make money off, not for me to sell other products with their traffic - and I was making enough selling paysite subscriptions.

This worked when purve converted 1/50 @ $20 - 30 per month with 6 months average retention ... It was easy when there were hardly any sites on the internet. Retention has dropped over the years in a steady decline, and its because many companies have started building 'portals' for women with all the editorial stuff i'm charging for FREE on their portals. Why? Because womens EYES are so valuable, you can afford to spend all that money developing content just to sell ad spots.

While I will always hold comtempt for the tgp model ruining a perfectly good business, I am just annoyed because it has made me have to change my own business model. But I'm over it already. It's fine, I'm in my element in the world of branding, bookmarkers and providing free samples anyway ... remember, I get people to think about surfing my sites before they even get to the internet, let alone a search engine - the media is a wonderful tool, and the media doesn't have a traffic skim. ;-)