Edwards speech. Dems lost my vote

[Almighty Colin]

Any chance that I'd vote Democrat this year was lost last night by two items at the top of the agenda in the Edwards speech. Two health care systems, two economies.

The sad part of the Democratic party, and the Republicans have theirs too, is not that they want equal opportunity but that they want equal results.

No vote for me.

[wig]

Colin, I missed it. Typical class warfare??

I am writing in you and JR. hehe

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by wig@Jul 29 2004, 07:17 AM
Colin, I missed it. Typical class warfare??
Yeah, I recorded it last night and just watched it.

[Mike AI]

Edwards is all about class warfare.... the funny thing is that HE is loaded!! He is worth more then Cheney and Bush by far ( and is much younger).

He got his money through frivolous lawsuits, that not only made him wealthy, but made Drs change the way they do things, which hurt more babies, my mothers, and the local community when Drs retired rather then having to pay huge malpractive insurance.

He is SCUM - I have NEVER met a plantiff attorney who is a stand up man. They are all slimy.... but like Edwards, most are VERY smooth.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 29 2004, 06:28 AM
Edwards is all about class warfare.... the funny thing is that HE is loaded!! He is worth more then Cheney and Bush by far ( and is much younger).

He got his money through frivolous lawsuits, that not only made him wealthy, but made Drs change the way they do things, which hurt more babies, my mothers, and the local community when Drs retired rather then having to pay huge malpractive insurance.

He is SCUM - I have NEVER met a plantiff attorney who is a stand up man. They are all slimy.... but like Edwards, most are VERY smooth.
I knew I should have got admitted to the bar ;-))))



And know not those bars ;-))

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Jul 29 2004, 09:43 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Jul 29 2004, 09:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mike AI@Jul 29 2004, 06:28 AM
Edwards is all about class warfare.... the funny thing is that HE is loaded!! He is worth more then Cheney and Bush by far ( and is much younger).

He got his money through frivolous lawsuits, that not only made him wealthy, but made Drs change the way they do things, which hurt more babies, my mothers, and the local community when Drs retired rather then having to pay huge malpractive insurance.

He is SCUM - I have NEVER met a plantiff attorney who is a stand up man. They are all slimy.... but like Edwards, most are VERY smooth.
I knew I should have got admitted to the bar ;-))))



And know not those bars ;-)) [/b][/quote]


Nick, if you had choosen route as plantiff attorney in US - there would be a legitimate chance of YOU running for VP right now. Trial Attorneys are very a very powerful group.

Think of being involved in tobacco litigation? I know attorneys who made hundred of millions from it.

[SykkBoy]

Fuck, maybe I'll just move to Canada for the next four years...

They had an interesting piece on Jphn Kerry on the news here about how be came out strongly against Yucca Mountain this year but back in the 80's was one of those who voted for it...

Here's a guy who could easily win the office and he continues to fuck it up every step of the way...he's having the election handed to him on a silver platter and he finds new ways to screw up...

Maybe I'll just waste my vote on the Libertarian ticket again this year......

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 29 2004, 10:07 AM
Nick, if you had choosen route as plantiff attorney in US - there would be a legitimate chance of YOU running for VP right now. Trial Attorneys are very a very powerful group.

Think of being involved in tobacco litigation? I know attorneys who made hundred of millions from it.
So do I ... but they weren't plaintiff's attorneys. Not just tobacco, either ... asbestos, various and sundry nasty little chemicals, and a myriad of products that had a nasty tendency to break and hurt people.

There are scumbag plaintiff's attorneys - there is no doubt about it. Based on my experience, there are no more and no less scumbag plaintiff's attorneys than there are defense attorneys.

My personal opinion is that plantiff's attorneys and in-house council run neck-and-neck on the scumbag meter.

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by SykkBoy@Jul 29 2004, 10:16 AM
They had an interesting piece on Jphn Kerry on the news here about how be came out strongly against Yucca Mountain this year but back in the 80's was one of those who voted for it...
Just out of idle curiousity ... are there any issues on which your opinion has changed since the 1980s?

[RawAlex]

Sykk, there has been a bunch made on both sides as to what candidate "A" or "B" did 20 years ago, 30 years ago, whatever.

Drudge (so obviously pro Bush it's getting hard to read his site) has had a field day with 30 year old comments from Kerry's wife (who wasn't his wife then), and this book from the disgruntled people who apparently served with Kerry on the boats. You remember that group, they had a major sour grapes website about Kerry that was so full of shit you had to use toilet paper when you surfed!

Over 25 plus years, my opinions of things have changed. I am not in politics, and I have never had to make a deal or a trade off to get something done. I have never been in to context of having my opinion recorded WITHOUT context to be reviewed in the future.

Kerry voted for Yukka dump site. What was the trade off? What was it, in the big money wheeling and dealing politics of the US that would make him change his mind? You don't know, so there is no real way to judge.

Alex

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy+Jul 29 2004, 10:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PornoDoggy @ Jul 29 2004, 10:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mike AI@Jul 29 2004, 10:07 AM
Nick, if you had choosen route as plantiff attorney in US - there would be a legitimate chance of YOU running for VP right now. Trial Attorneys are very a very powerful group.

Think of being involved in tobacco litigation? I know attorneys who made hundred of millions from it.
So do I ... but they weren't plaintiff's attorneys. Not just tobacco, either ... asbestos, various and sundry nasty little chemicals, and a myriad of products that had a nasty tendency to break and hurt people.

There are scumbag plaintiff's attorneys - there is no doubt about it. Based on my experience, there are no more and no less scumbag plaintiff's attorneys than there are defense attorneys.

My personal opinion is that plantiff's attorneys and in-house council run neck-and-neck on the scumbag meter. [/b][/quote]


PD I will agree to the statement MOST attorneys, no matter what type are scumbags. However, when I was in lawschool - my first semester I could pick out the people who were going to be abulance chasers.

There is no doubt that some legal issues need to be addressed by plantiff atrorneys, but the pendulm has swung to far givnig them to much power. They are basicly like a pack of dogs looking for new prety to devour.

Sometimes the form companies and buy patents like Acacia.

If you are a successfu company with deep pockets, you will run into these jackels. DirectNIC deals at least 3 new lawsuits every MONTH!!! None if the issues even invovle us, but since we are the registrar ( the law clearly states we cannot beliable) and have deep pockets we are always inclued in lawsuits. It costs us time and money to deal with.

The tobacco litigation was a joke, it changed nothing, all it did was rob tax payers, and normal people to enrich attorneys.

The Trial Lawyer's are the most dangerous group to the future health of this country - even more then terrorists.

[Mike AI]

HAHAHA Come on Teressa has flip-flopped more then her current husband.


Of course I would flip flop as well to be a wife of a billionaire senator.... who then dies in a plane accident.

This whole thing disturbs me on a personal level - this is why I am going to leave all my money to my dogs. I know they won't finance some twit like Kerry with my money.

Senator Heinz must be flipping over in his grave.


Teressa made her money the old fashion way - she maried into it.
if I inherited a billion dollars, I would not care if the INCOME tax rate went up. Who cares, let the little people with jobs worry about that!


:lol: :lol:

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 29 2004, 10:44 AM
The Trial Lawyer's are the most dangerous group to the future health of this country - even more then terrorists.
You are kidding me, right? Trial lawyers are more dangerous than alQaida? Are they more or less of a threat than the teacher's unions? :rolleyes:

I do not dispute much of what you posted. I have worked for a couple of major law firms that defended corporate clients, including at least one company that does not hold Senator John Edwards in very high regard. There is no doubt that there is a staggering number of absurd lawsuits filed every year.

The problem with tort reform is the unwillingness of anyone to compromise. There has got to be a middle ground that protects both the truly injured plaintiff as well as the industries victimized by the absurd lawsuits. The industry groups are every bit as militant in attempting to obtain complete absolution from any fault, or in limiting potential damages to an acceptable cost of doing business as the trial lawyers are in defending their right to sue at the drop of a hat.

Both sides block any attempt at effective tort reform.

[RawAlex]

Mike, you miss the most important point: You aren't electing her.

It's no more important to the discussion than Bush's daughters getting caught buying booze underage. It's a non-issue, a red herring designed to get people to stop looking at the men and their message, and to instead get people sucked into the circus of innuendo and non-related facts.

I think of this as being really quite funny: Nobody on the Bush side of things can find anything useful to say against Kerry's policies or ideas, so they are down to sniping at personalities.

"Bush mislead us into war that has killed more than a thousand american citizens"
or
"Kerry faked some bullets in a home movie taken 30+ years ago"

Think about it. Your being played.

Alex

[JR]

i personally don't see much difference between Kerry and Bush at this point. they both seem lost and bizarre.

[Nickatilynx]

I watched Clinton give his speech at the Dem Convention , and frankly if he was allowed to run again I think he'd beat them both.

He "looks" like a President.

Bush comes accross as slightly demented.

Kerry comes across as a dick.

JMHO from up here in the great White North.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by JR@Jul 29 2004, 11:06 AM
i personally don't see much difference between Kerry and Bush at this point. they both seem lost and bizarre.
Seriously, I think both parties have hit upon the strategy of lying low and saying as little as possible. Bush has been MIA since Abu Ghraib and Kerry has been MIA since the get-go.

Both candidates lack charisma. I always wondered what an election between
Bob Dole and Michael Dukakis would be like. Now I know.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jul 29 2004, 11:08 AM
I watched Clinton give his speech at the Dem Convention , and frankly if he was allowed to run again I think he'd beat them both.

He "looks" like a President.

Bush comes accross as slightly demented.

Kerry comes across as a dick.

JMHO from up here in the great White North.
Oh, no doubt. He'd win in a landslide. Clinton was a good speaker as president but what I saw in him the other day was greatness. That was an amazing delivery and so far the highlight of the Democratic Convention.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by Colin+Jul 29 2004, 08:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Colin @ Jul 29 2004, 08:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Jul 29 2004, 11:08 AM
I watched Clinton give his speech at the Dem Convention , and frankly if he was allowed to run again I think he'd beat them both.

He "looks" like a President.

Bush comes accross as slightly demented.

Kerry comes across as a dick.

JMHO from up here in the great White North.
Oh, no doubt. He'd win in a landslide. Clinton was a good speaker as president but what I saw in him the other day was greatness. That was an amazing delivery and so far the highlight of the Democratic Convention. [/b][/quote]
He definitely has "it"

If I was Kerry I'd let it be known that I intend to bring him back in some MEGA role.

Imply in fact that he might be pulling the strings LOL

[Mike AI]

PD I do think trial lawyers are a bigger threat to the future of this country then Al Quada. We know Al Quada is an enemy, we can face them, hunt them down and destory them.

Trial lawyers have free run in this country, have their hands on the levers of power, and have been perverting everything they touch. Trial lawyers have the ability to destroy the country from the inside.

The lowly Mosquito has killed more men then all the armies in the world. Trial lawyers are termites who are chewing away at our free market and economy. The US economy is what seperates itself from the rest of the world.

[Nickatilynx]

We know Al Quada is an enemy, we can face them, hunt them down and destory them.


I really don't think you can.

History shows that a guerilla movement , espeically one that in fact is growing in numbers as a result of Bush's unsafe and unsound actions is hard to beat.

I truly think Bush has endangered the west more than people realise.

He acted without the UN's blessing and under a totally false precept.

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 29 2004, 11:44 AM
PD I do think trial lawyers are a bigger threat to the future of this country then Al Quada. We know Al Quada is an enemy, we can face them, hunt them down and destory them.

Trial lawyers have free run in this country, have their hands on the levers of power, and have been perverting everything they touch. Trial lawyers have the ability to destroy the country from the inside.

The lowly Mosquito has killed more men then all the armies in the world. Trial lawyers are termites who are chewing away at our free market and economy. The US economy is what seperates itself from the rest of the world.
Seek psychological counseling now.

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 29 2004, 11:44 AM
PD I do think trial lawyers are a bigger threat to the future of this country then Al Quada. We know Al Quada is an enemy, we can face them, hunt them down and destory them.

Trial lawyers have free run in this country, have their hands on the levers of power, and have been perverting everything they touch. Trial lawyers have the ability to destroy the country from the inside.

The lowly Mosquito has killed more men then all the armies in the world. Trial lawyers are termites who are chewing away at our free market and economy. The US economy is what seperates itself from the rest of the world.
TE is right ... you need help. Badly.

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy+Jul 29 2004, 10:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PornoDoggy @ Jul 29 2004, 10:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-SykkBoy@Jul 29 2004, 10:16 AM
They had an interesting piece on Jphn Kerry on the news here about how be came out strongly against Yucca Mountain this year but back in the 80's was one of those who voted for it...
Just out of idle curiousity ... are there any issues on which your opinion has changed since the 1980s? [/b][/quote]
everything but my wardrobe has changed since the 80's.

The problem is that Kerry never really had an opinion about this until he hit Nevada...and his only record showed him being in favor of dumping the country's nuke waste out here. This isa very touchy subject here and should be for all of you that the trains carrying that waste has to pass by on it's final journey here. Talk about a terrorist target.

I'm almost willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I remain skeptical. I just really don't trust Bush with his shifty eyes and I don't trust Kerry with big eyebrows and waffling like a cook at a pancake house.

I really do find myself siding with the dems on most issues (environment, pro-choice, etc.) but I'm just at a point I don't trust either of these two clowns who only seem to complain about what the other is doing and not focusing on what they are going to do.

For me, the one dividing issue is Yucca Mountain and I know that ush doesn't give fuck one about the environment or Nevada and will allow this to go through and Kerry says he'll stop it, but I don't know if that'll happen either...

Can we have a do over for this election?

[sextoyking]

Hi,

Been watching the convention day and night since Monday. I think overall it has been good for the dems.

They have kept to the scripted line as much as possible, showing unity thoughout the floor / hall.

Edwards speech is what I kinda thought it would be. Brang up the 2 America's, some issues that Kerry's admin would do, etc.

Don't always think class warfare. Remember alot of the 2 america's stuff resonated well in Iowa and other places when he was running.

Problem I see is, Kerry better have a fucking pretty good speech tonight. And he better damm well smile some :)

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by sextoyking@Jul 29 2004, 12:55 PM
Hi,

Been watching the convention day and night since Monday. I think overall it has been good for the dems.

They have kept to the scripted line as much as possible, showing unity thoughout the floor / hall.

Edwards speech is what I kinda thought it would be. Brang up the 2 America's, some issues that Kerry's admin would do, etc.

Don't always think class warfare. Remember alot of the 2 america's stuff resonated well in Iowa and other places when he was running.

Problem I see is, Kerry better have a fucking pretty good speech tonight. And he better damm well smile some :)

Todd, I think you are right - the conventionwas BORING and very mainstream. This is good for the democrats.

They kept all the kooks locked up, and kept all the attack dogs sedated. Neither Gore nor Dean screamed at all.

Not one person copaired Bush to Hitler!!

Can democrats keep the mask on until election??

Funny how the platform says Dems are FOR the war, for occupation of Iraq - yet 90%+ democrats at the convention are against this. Guess no one really pays attention to the platform.

[sextoyking]

Mike,

true true :) the polls they have had with the ppl there show about 75% of them don't support the war in Iraq, but you know. They are trying to put forth a positive msg.

Same goes for the repubs in Nyc, shit they have there stars on stage, moderates, pro choice, etc. The repubs don't usually do that :)

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by sextoyking@Jul 29 2004, 04:27 PM
Mike,

true true :) the polls they have had with the ppl there show about 75% of them don't support the war in Iraq, but you know. They are trying to put forth a positive msg.

Same goes for the repubs in Nyc, shit they have there stars on stage, moderates, pro choice, etc. The repubs don't usually do that :)


No doubt, both parties are moving left. Bush is certainly not a true Conservative.

Nader is right, there is no REAL choices for American people.

[Dravyk]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 29 2004, 05:42 PM
Not one person copaired Bush to Hitler!!

Can democrats keep the mask on until election??
As long as they keep Al Sharpton trusted up in the convention hall janitor's closet, everything will be alright.

[Rolo]

Originally posted by Colin@Jul 29 2004, 04:13 AM
Any chance that I'd vote Democrat this year was lost last night by two items at the top of the agenda in the Edwards speech.
I was thinking, that if he had changed the word "hope" to "help", then he could have passed for any european socialist politcian... same control problem, where someone thinks that goverment is the solution to problems.

Its ironic, that when we are all thinking that what the world needs are great politicians with visions, then we get mediocre politicians to choose from - I think we have to wait 2-4 presidents, before we will see another great man/woman as president.

[Hell Puppy]

"None of the above" would win in a landslide.

Anyone know how tough it is to get decent high speed internet in the South Pacific?

[chodadog]

It's just talk. He can't seriously do anything to close the gap between the classes. I think something like that can only happen in the private sector, and would take many many years.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 29 2004, 03:42 PM
Guess no one really pays attention to the platform.
I watched the Democratic party platform conference on C Span. Never seen one before. It was pretty interesting. From where I watched, various Democrats would stand up at the podium asking that certain changes be made and then there would be an oral vote to decide. At one point, someone asked that Bob Dole's name be stricken from the platform because someone had quoted him.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Rolo@Jul 29 2004, 05:07 PM
Its ironic, that when we are all thinking that what the world needs are great politicians with visions, then we get mediocre politicians to choose from - I think we have to wait 2-4 presidents, before we will see another great man/woman as president.
Ahh, there's no such thing as a great or a bad politician. Some love Reagan, some hate him. Some love Clinton, some hate him. It's subjective. For the most part I think people have unrealistic expectations about what the leader of a country should be like, act like and stand for. One can always find something to pick on. Watch Leno or Letterman the night after any election. The opening joke in their monologues will always disparage the new president.

A Bush, Kerry, Clinton or Bush. All have the capacity to be remembered as great by a good many people with the proper situation and response.

[Rolo]

I agree that the "situation" can create the "great" politcian, and again that "great" is subjective.

However my subjective feeling is that the current situation in the world could create a great president, if he/she had vision. Democracy vs. Fundamentalism, oil/energy peak, world population growth etc. All major problems, which have not reached their full scale yet, but many could do within 20-45 years. A visonary politician might not be able to single handed solve these problems, but he/she could begin the process, so we are not overwhelm with problems in the future.
I´m certain that when the above problems gets big enough, then some politicians will rise to solve them, but it will not be vision who drives them, but the hard reality of the world they will live in at that time.

[Evil Chris]

Edwards has more money than Bush or Cheney? I believe GWB, but Cheney? Isn't he one of the biggest oil/money players in the USA?

[RawAlex]

Mike, Bush may be leaning left during the run up to the convention, but trust me, his leash is still tied to a conservative / christian fundamentalist dog house. If they feel him tugging too hard, they will pull him back in a second. I suspect the convention will be filled with the Bob Jones types, all trying to play that side of the field. God will be praised. Bush will suckle up to the teat of conservative power, clearly and publically.

As for the campaign itself, the Democrats are doing all they can, trying to keep that mask of reasonableness on, and so far they are pulling it off. The ads I have seen on TV seem to be pretty much level and not falling far into attack mode. August will be a little light for them in the ad department, as they are starting to spend in the actual campaign money, rather than the more or less unlimited pre-acceptance cash. Bush gets an extra two weeks (albiet the worst two weeks for TV) to get his message out all but unopposed.

Bush's camp is also doing the best thing: Staying way the heck out of the news. They are staying off the front page, and off the media train, and out of the public eye. I think the theory is "if they can't see us, they can't see us screwing up". There is very very little that Bush and his team can do now that would help them in the polls, and many things they can trip over. So they are playing it VERY cool. The convention will put them back in the spotlight again, and I think that will be a very negative time for them, as they return back to their roots, back to their "war is great" message, back to their "we will wage war everywhere anytime" bully message, and it will scare off the undecideds and the people who are against all the agression shown in the last 3.5 years.

Bush will win if he shuts up and controls the convention, keeping the christians and war mongers off the stage, and if he speaks a clear and definate middle road message. He will lose big time if he plays up to the party faithful with the religeous overtones that scare so many people away.

Alex

[aeon]

Meet your new friend...

http://www.cnn.com/books/news/9909/24/reagan.book/ed.messe.jpg

It gives me a hardon just thinking...smut peddlers would put this guy back in office and not expect the given.

Those fuckin' snake handlers aren't gonna be happy if georgie jr. doesn't introduce a few of us to a new niche...dry interracial prison rape.

That's the constituency you pick - good luck with hemorrhoids. You can't buy KY with your tax break in prison.

[sextoyking]

Meese,

The scum bag of the 80's!!!!

What that fuck and the justice dept. did to our industry, adult video stores was a bunch of BS..

[aeon]

Originally posted by sextoyking@Jul 31 2004, 12:54 PM
Meese,

The scum bag of the 80's!!!!

What that fuck and the justice dept. did to our industry, adult video stores was a bunch of BS..
I hate leftists, they lack even a basic understanding of their core philosophy among other failings, but I'm gonna do a little dance when the righty shitwits put the prodigal son back in office. He won't have to worry about re-election and catering to centrists for the another term.

When the indictments start coming...it's gonna be a beautiful thing - I wanna see how far the "I voted for bush" will go with the new neocon filled supreme court. It'll be better than the comedy channel.