The Hun bans Paycounter. sorry KC [Archive] - Oprano Adult Industry Forums

Rolo

07-04-2004, 10:41 AM

Opti, I think this is gallery from Voltar, which was rejected by the hun?:

http://www.bobtheknob.com/xxx-pussy-pic.html

Now, the hun probably have 1000s of new submissions he could list, so he choosed not to list this, which is fair (its his own business)... however if I bought gallery spots on the hun (or other tgps for that matter), then I´m sure I would be willing to pay even more, if the traffic was better converting and retaining - how can TGPs do this, well they could allow only paid galleries to show hardcore (with a few rules like no cumshot, long videos etc.), and free submissions to only show softcore or censored hardcore. This would leave the "hardcore" promotion to people who understand that there is a fine line between turning someone on, and making them cum, which again will mean more $$$ for everyone.

Yeah, some TGPs could loose bookmarks short term, however if they got enough paid spots to fill up their daily submissions need, then problem is solved, because the paid spots are hardcore.

Let the hardcore spots be controlled by someone who actual cares about their product/$$$$$$, and let the free submissions be for them who have unique marketing skills (ex. making censored hardcore, looking hardcore).

Nickatilynx

07-04-2004, 10:50 AM

ahhh... the old days...

I remember when I used to use loads of bogus emails to submit my own accidentally on purpose non ndexed image folders to him and then once traffic started flick them ;-)))

Til he wrote to me and said , "Nick , some lil bastards are finding your image folders and submitting them , I just felt I should let you know"

hehehehe Really? , I came clean , and he said ok don't flick them for a few hours ...nice :)

Haven't sent a gallery to the hun since prolly 98 LOL.

Anyways his site , his rules.You want his traffic , you obey his rules.

Anyways , I thought he sold up ?

Opti

07-04-2004, 11:00 AM

Be wonderful if we self regulate Rolo... but there is too many people ready to jump under the guard of those that allow it.

Free hardcore is here until someone makes it unprofitable or illegal for affiliate programs to take traffic from it imho.

I remember when I used to use loads of bogus emails to submit my own accidentally on purpose non ndexed image folders to him and then once traffic started flick them ;-)))

Aaahhhh... where's Baldbastard? :-))

(that was also a nasty trick to do to another webmaster when badwidth was 8 bucks a GB too )

I actually used to think Hun was a bit an asshole for listing those ... i forgot about that... he really does like to give it all away doesnt he!!

Vick

07-04-2004, 11:02 AM

Amazing how those non indexed folders used to be found in the old days
ah ha ha ha ha :D

Bottom line is it is Patrick's site and he can do with it as he pleases -
even if it is the Mother Teresa of porn and has hurt everyone's pocket long term including his own (sort if interesting hes still in the game, maybe he really does love the surfers)

But the abundance of material to be GIVEN away there still makes me scratch my head

I bought banner space there back in 2000 and couldn't convert it, can't imagine how challenging it is now - guess someone may be converting it or no one would be buying gallery placements - unless they have $ to burn and just like to see counter numbers spin

Nickatilynx

07-04-2004, 11:19 AM

Remember how a pop up that looked like an open index drew hits like strippers to Ben Affleck?

Sweeeet :)

Also remember that guy ,Andy , was it ? That did that bannerswap thing?

It was a great way to test what surfers clicked on. :)

I remember sitting with GG and Tommy and telling them how to increase there $$$ from all the traffic they controlled and watching there faces turn evil.....

LOL

Mike AI

07-04-2004, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jul 4 2004, 10:20 AM
Remember how a pop up that looked like an open index drew hits like strippers to Ben Affleck?

Sweeeet :)

Also remember that guy ,Andy , was it ? That did that bannerswap thing?

It was a great way to test what surfers clicked on. :)

I remember sitting with GG and Tommy and telling them how to increase there $$$ from all the traffic they controlled and watching there faces turn evil.....

LOL
Evil huh?

:lol:

gonzo

07-04-2004, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jul 4 2004, 10:20 AM

Also remember that guy ,Andy , was it ? That did that bannerswap thing?

It was a great way to test what surfers clicked on. :)

Andy Dunn....sewswap before Gamma got it.

Incredible tool...incredible newsletter.

Rolo

07-04-2004, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by Opti@Jul 4 2004, 07:01 AM
Free hardcore is here until someone makes it unprofitable or illegal for affiliate programs to take traffic from it imho.
What if we could make it more profitable? Like I described - having the free hardcore only controlled by people who want to turn it into $$$$$$? The only sacrifice is prehaps some lost bookmarks, but lets say the gallery spot value goes up 50% (higher price, and more paid spots), however the traffic drops 30% (which I think is worst case)? That is still more $$$ at the end of the day :-)

TGPs are like old houses, and today alot of them are controlled by slumlord mentality, however if they cleaned up their part of town - got rid of the people who do not pay rent, rob the stores etc, and improve their buildings and surroundings, so people with money wanted to live there, then they could make more money...

Opti

07-04-2004, 12:58 PM

I'd like to offer some informed input Rolo... but I dont know sweet FA about TGPing really.. have a few linksites though and there seems to be almost dailly discussion amongst that group about how to best bring in a paid partner account system.

Not a paid spot thing like TGPs... a one off fee to buy a partner account that all (or lots) of linksites might use like a whitelist. The cost of $50 or so a pop each time a scammer gets banned would hopefully kill off a lot of the problem kids immediately.

Your idea of only allowing partners to submit hardcore content could work wth that... but you still have to convince everyone... and many just couldn't care less about it ..

I also think those few bookmarkers are a lot more valued by most sites than you imagine.

I'm with you on the plan... but am sceptical you can convince the traffic hubs to all agree to one standard and all do it at once... But if they do, I think I will start up up an all hardcore TGP myself. ( being really honest about it)

Mike AI

07-04-2004, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by Opti@Jul 4 2004, 11:59 AM
I'd like to offer some informed input Rolo... but I dont know sweet FA about TGPing really.. have a few linksites though and there seems to be almost dailly discussion amongst that group about how to best bring in a paid partner account system.

Not a paid spot thing like TGPs... a one off fee to buy a partner account that all (or lots) of linksites might use like a whitelist. The cost of $50 or so a pop each time a scammer gets banned would hopefully kill off a lot of the problem kids immediately.

Your idea of only allowing partners to submit hardcore content could work wth that... but you still have to convince everyone... and many just couldn't care less about it ..

I also think those few bookmarkers are a lot more valued by most sites than you imagine.

I'm with you on the plan... but am sceptical you can convince the traffic hubs to all agree to one standard and all do it at once... But if they do, I think I will start up up an all hardcore TGP myself. ( being really honest about it)
These are good ideas. Something we have been thinking about with Amateur Index for awhile.

Opti

07-04-2004, 01:18 PM

Mike,

Amateur index would be a big drawcard to webmasters in that sort of system.. The time is ripe for someone to do this first and well... Would tie up a captive audience of almost all the daily workhorse webmasters eyes too.

It needs a few other key people like Tommy, Greenguy, Penisbot, Richard's et al to support a global system to make it work. But they would all be open to a good proposal at the minute imho.

I wouldn't be talking this up so publicly if I thought I could do it myself btw. Just really want it to happen asap to make my life easier... and as I think it will really make a sharp difference to the dollars generated overall by Linklists.

Rolo

07-04-2004, 01:52 PM

I´m not sure I have to convince anyone, since the TGP model is already changing - maybe in 1-2 years most TGPs will only have paid spots and hosted galleries, and then TGP owners will start looking at $, when choosing which galleries get listed (many are already, however they have not started the part of optimizing their own product, but this will come when more focus is at $, than on traffic).

The "traffic wanking game" is getting less important - as said in the hun posts, he needed a counter, so he can sell gallery spots, not because of an ego trip (ok, maybe that part will never die off, but it will be less important). What I want to know as a gallery spot buyer is the demographics of the tgp, and the traffic numbers - I´m not really interested if the site is #1, or #1000 on a counter list.

Free submissions to TGPs, Link Lists, SEs etc. should be replaced with something where both parties have an interest in making $.

gonzo

07-04-2004, 02:40 PM

Out of all of you good folks offering solutions and input.
How many of you currently run TGPs?

From what Ive read some of you guys are actually defending the use of autodownloaders and dialers?

Am I misreading somethng?

the Shemp

07-04-2004, 03:04 PM

sites llike the HUN want all the surfers to come in, look around, click some links and come back again real soon...same with me, thats how we make our money.

i want a surfer to be able to come in and know that he wont be impeded or violated by unwanted downloads, dialers and console hells. i want him to be a happy guy, i want him to book mark me, i want him to have confidence in my site.
But most important, i want him in my stats, so i can sell some advertising :)

Winetalk.com

07-04-2004, 03:08 PM

the Shemp

07-04-2004, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Jul 4 2004, 11:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Jul 4 2004, 11:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-the Shemp@Jul 4 2004, 02:05 PM
sites llike the HUN want all the surfers to come in, look around, click some links and come back again real soon...same with me, thats how we make our money.

i want a surfer to be able to come in and know that he wont be impeded or violated by unwanted downloads, dialers and console hells. i want him to be a happy guy, i want him to book mark me, i want him to have confidence in my site.
But most important, i want him in my stats, so i can sell some advertising :)
really?
I was positive yuo only do it for webmaster's benefit so they can make more money than you and visit your grave on the yearly basis
;-)))) [/b][/quote]
ya, i dont recall ever twisting anyones arm to send me a gallery. i dont tell them to use hardcore content either. but its a way to get some easy traffic and a lot of webmasters seem to like easy traffic.

getting a lot of surfers to one page, gives the TGP owner quite a few options, selling spots or banner ads, sending the traffic to his own sites, selling traffic to a broker or trading some off hoping to get some new surfers in return. this is why we dont like these console chains and autoload crap that stops the flow.

how happy would you be if you bought the number 3 gallery on shemp, but the number 2 gallery right before you had an autodownload dialer or consol hell on it.... so it works better if all galleries contain decent sample pix that match the paysite and if the paysite tour can get the surfer to continue on to the sign up page.

Winetalk.com

07-04-2004, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by the Shemp@Jul 4 2004, 02:33 PM

how happy would you be if you bought the number 3 gallery on shemp, but the number 2 gallery right before you had an autodownload dialer or consol hell on it....
I'd say that Shemp should be castrated...and I know a few girls who would do it for free
;-))))

the Shemp

07-04-2004, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Jul 4 2004, 11:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Jul 4 2004, 11:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-the Shemp@Jul 4 2004, 02:33 PM

how happy would you be if you bought the number 3 gallery on shemp, but the number 2 gallery right before you had an autodownload dialer or consol hell on it....
I'd say that Shemp should be castrated...and I know a few girls who would do it for free
;-)))) [/b][/quote]
haha, actually i only have blanks in my gun these days ;)

masterp74

07-04-2004, 04:10 PM

Gonzo your right. not one mention of sex tracker or paycounter dialer gifts or spyware shit. people just don't get it. this last month we have heard nothing but spyware problems worldwide. computers crashes, files changing, ect... Don't people know this isn't gonna fly anymore? Let's ask KC if dialers are more profitable today or last month.

BTW, The Hun is looking for a simple counter that's counts. nothing more, nothing less....

SykkBoy

07-04-2004, 04:43 PM

A dirty little secret I'll share with the Oprano faithful, I've only been submitting EGC galleries to non-nude TGP's and the conversions are amazing, I'm doing a steady 1:200, now granted those are Hun numbers hitting the site, but I'm very happy with the ROI.

The NN guys have really cleaned up their act and gotten rid of all the underage bullshit and the traffic is amazing. I see more and more traffic coming in by the day and the ratios are very steady. Even back in the day when I was paying a mortage and living well just from TGP listings, I was always of the mindset that a TGP gallery should be a tease for the site and it made for better conversions and I never had to worry about adding hardcore content to the galleries.

We're actually going to start adding non-nude galleries for our affiliates to promote and I see a lot more sponsors getting ready to do it (who aren't already doing it).

gonzo

07-04-2004, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by the Shemp+Jul 4 2004, 02:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (the Shemp @ Jul 4 2004, 02:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Jul 4 2004, 11:09 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-the Shemp@Jul 4 2004, 02:05 PM
sites llike the HUN want all the surfers to come in, look around, click some links and come back again real soon...same with me, thats how we make our money.

i want a surfer to be able to come in and know that he wont be impeded or violated by unwanted downloads, dialers and console hells. i want him to be a happy guy, i want him to book mark me, i want him to have confidence in my site.
But most important, i want him in my stats, so i can sell some advertising :)
really?
I was positive yuo only do it for webmaster's benefit so they can make more money than you and visit your grave on the yearly basis
;-))))
ya, i dont recall ever twisting anyones arm to send me a gallery. i dont tell them to use hardcore content either. but its a way to get some easy traffic and a lot of webmasters seem to like easy traffic.

getting a lot of surfers to one page, gives the TGP owner quite a few options, selling spots or banner ads, sending the traffic to his own sites, selling traffic to a broker or trading some off hoping to get some new surfers in return. this is why we dont like these console chains and autoload crap that stops the flow.

how happy would you be if you bought the number 3 gallery on shemp, but the number 2 gallery right before you had an autodownload dialer or consol hell on it.... so it works better if all galleries contain decent sample pix that match the paysite and if the paysite tour can get the surfer to continue on to the sign up page. [/b][/quote]
I think what we all are getting around to saying is that hopefully the free for all attitude with some TGPs but more so the gallery submitters will swing back to more of a conservative attitude.

I think what happened over the last few years are a lot of post owners go away from the fact that a TGP is a disguised FPA to whatever they are advertising.
Not Shemp but some of the other TGPs have hired screeners or reviewers that got high on the power.

I remember one instance when I was working a DRM solutions 2 years ago. I dropped out a sample of the MGP I was going to submit with 90 less than 90 seconds of crystal clear pure video clips. And yes I stopped the clip before the surfer got off or saw more than just a tease. One reviewer told me that the thumbs in the gallery looked like screen captures and that I should have cleaned them up to be magazine quaility before submitting them.

Then you have very restrictive rules about numbers,sizes,links, etc etc etc. What Im saying is that the rules made it hard to get noticed so a lot more submitters began to offer more hardcore samples in order to rise about.

Just like the old billing model that we are seeing rotting on the vine... the TGP model is going to need to be revised as well.

Thats why is important for Oprano webmasters to have a meaningful dialog with folks like Shemp. Nobody is here to defend TGPs as a concept we hope to start a dialog to refine them.

More and more paysite owners have begun to realize that TGP traffic is the last easy way to generate clicks left in existance. Hopefully we can work together and improve that business model.

Rolo

07-04-2004, 05:06 PM

I think that hidden autodownloaders are not good for the adult industry image, and I also think that TGPs debating about what takes place at a site/counter they are linking too is their right, and that they have the right to remove the site/counter from their TGPs - they set their own rules.

However I think the ironic part is the complaining, about what is good/bad from a TGPs point of view... Sure TGPs build their traffic from bookmarks to their sites, and to get a bookmark you need to have a site, which the surfer would like to visit again. TGPs do this by adding new content daily, and thats also ok, but the ironic part comes when TGPs tries to look at everything from a surfers/bookmark point of view - they need to modify this a bit, and look what will be good for:

- TGP, who wants bookmarks
- Surfer, who wants content
- Paysite, who wants business

Its like a symbiosis, where they only can survive and prosper, if they all have room to breath.

Until recently TGPs, had no direct interest in seeing this symbiosis surviving (prehaps some were not aware that it exist), however with gallery spots and hosted galleries, then more TGPs start to see the importance of the symbiosis. What is important once TGPs sees that boomarks, content and business are all tied together, is that they stop looking at the surfer as a "victim" who needs to be nursed and paysites as evildoers, but instead look at him as a "consumer" who needs to be optimized for profit and paysites as partners.

Rolo

07-04-2004, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by the Shemp@Jul 4 2004, 11:33 AM
ya, i dont recall ever twisting anyones arm to send me a gallery. i dont tell them to use hardcore content either. but its a way to get some easy traffic and a lot of webmasters seem to like easy traffic.
So lets say we have 2 galleries with same model, layout, and paysite, but with 2 different set of pics/videos:

- Hardcore
- Softcore

Which one will get listed? I´m thinking most TGPs would take the hardcore version - maybe I´m wrong?

But I agree with your observation - paysites can do alot, which would have little impact on traffic or tgps, but hopefully bring more sales... ex. if giving out free content, then do not include the cumshot/moneyshot, offering free hosting to affilates limited the size of video files etc. that would be start. Cause and Effect :)

Rolo

07-04-2004, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by SykkBoy@Jul 4 2004, 12:44 PM
We're actually going to start adding non-nude galleries for our affiliates to promote and I see a lot more sponsors getting ready to do it (who aren't already doing it).
We will do this in the future :okthumb:

the Shemp

07-04-2004, 05:49 PM

Originally posted by Rolo+Jul 4 2004, 01:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rolo @ Jul 4 2004, 01:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-the Shemp@Jul 4 2004, 11:33 AM
ya, i dont recall ever twisting anyones arm to send me a gallery. i dont tell them to use hardcore content either. but its a way to get some easy traffic and a lot of webmasters seem to like easy traffic.
So lets say we have 2 galleries with same model, layout, and paysite, but with 2 different set of pics/videos:

- Hardcore
- Softcore

Which one will get listed? I´m thinking most TGPs would take the hardcore version - maybe I´m wrong?

But I agree with your observation - paysites can do alot, which would have little impact on traffic or tgps, but hopefully bring more sales... ex. if giving out free content, then do not include the cumshot/moneyshot, offering free hosting to affilates limited the size of video files etc. that would be start. Cause and Effect :) [/b][/quote]
of course i can only speak for my own site, but 99% of our submits come from our preferred submitters. these are webmasters that have a password and have been prescreened to submit galleries...ie ...i trust them....

they can submit anything they like, from hardcore to babes in bikinis. the surfer will determine what is profitable for them, not me.

you sort of make it sound like TGPs should be a support group for the sponsors and paysites, we exist to promote you and we should loosen up a bit so you will make more money..thats not how i view it....if i have to choose between keeping the surfer happy or a paysite owner happy, the surfer wins everytime...

The biggest problem i see with TGPs is that there are too many of them. They appear to be real easy to operate, so they attract the newbs. And of course its 10 times worse since the sponsors started giving away all the free content, galleries, hosting etc.

*KK*

07-04-2004, 06:10 PM

Amazing. the Hun's banned nearly everyone at some point or another from being on pages he lists. That is his prerogative, after all it's his traffic.

But to sit here and dog on KC for trying to make a buck is just ridiculous.

the Shemp

07-04-2004, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by *KK*@Jul 4 2004, 02:11 PM
Amazing. the Hun's banned nearly everyone at some point or another from being on pages he lists. That is his prerogative, after all it's his traffic.

But to sit here and dog on KC for trying to make a buck is just ridiculous.
im such a noob on this board i dont even know who KC is....

07-04-2004, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by masterp74@Jul 4 2004, 08:05 AM
I also blacklisted paycounter for the exact same reason.
I just returned from a beautiful Alaskan fishing trip so I haven't been able to follow this issue.

I'll contact the Hun and listen to his concerns and hopefully he and I can resolve them.

Consoles and Dialers are a part of this business and as the value of traffic continues to decline they have become valuable revenue streams. This is especially important when PayCounter buys the traffic at a nickel per click!!!

For the record, I have NEVER autoinstalled dialers or spyware, toolbars, adware, etc.

07-04-2004, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by *KK*@Jul 4 2004, 05:11 PM
Amazing. the Hun's banned nearly everyone at some point or another from being on pages he lists. That is his prerogative, after all it's his traffic.

But to sit here and dog on KC for trying to make a buck is just ridiculous.
Thanks KK.

MasterP/Pornstar2Pac/Free-Poker-Ideaman doesn't care about counters or TGPs... he just wants to kick a little dirt in my face. Like you said before, "I've moved on".

Rolo

07-04-2004, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by the Shemp@Jul 4 2004, 01:50 PM
you sort of make it sound like TGPs should be a support group for the sponsors and paysites, we exist to promote you and we should loosen up a bit so you will make more money..thats not how i view it....if i have to choose between keeping the surfer happy or a paysite owner happy, the surfer wins everytime...
I was being diplomatic :awinky: I would like to talk $$$$$, but I have found that TGPs are not tuned to the same business frequency as paysites, so we often misunderstand each other and our motives. But communication helps us understand each other :-)

My point is exactly that TGPs should not change their ideology, because of a single paysite, but because it will strengthen the TGPs... it will mean more target and arousing content/ads for TGPs, bringing more quality bookmarks, but also it brings more money to the TGP and paysite, because the surfer is exposed to more and better products. Sure there will also be benafits for paysites, but thats the idea behind paysites - that people pay to watch the content = $$$$$$ (money is not bad)

The problem for TGPs who want to make their money on pills, dvds etc., but not on content is that paysites will eventual start making their own TGPs to keep the surfer for as long as possible, or trade him with other sponsor´s galleries, tgps etc. Sponsors like BangBros, Pornkings etc. have already started their TGPs, but what will happende when 100s of other sponsors get the same idea, and start making a business out of TGPs?

Which TGP model will have the best survival chances?

- The version with focus on free
- The version with focus on marketing

Opti

07-04-2004, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by KC@Jul 5 2004, 08:31 AM
For the record, I have NEVER autoinstalled dialers or spyware, toolbars, adware, etc.
I'm glad I caught that post KC.. was starting to get the impression it was a given that you had been!

the Shemp

07-04-2004, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by Rolo+Jul 4 2004, 02:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rolo @ Jul 4 2004, 02:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-the Shemp@Jul 4 2004, 01:50 PM
you sort of make it sound like TGPs should be a support group for the sponsors and paysites, we exist to promote you and we should loosen up a bit so you will make more money..thats not how i view it....if i have to choose between keeping the surfer happy or a paysite owner happy, the surfer wins everytime...
I was being diplomatic :awinky: I would like to talk $$$$$, but I have found that TGPs are not tuned to the same business frequency as paysites, so we often misunderstand each other and our motives. But communication helps us understand each other :-)

My point is exactly that TGPs should not change their ideology, because of a single paysite, but because it will strengthen the TGPs... it will mean more target and arousing content/ads for TGPs, bringing more quality bookmarks, but also it brings more money to the TGP and paysite, because the surfer is exposed to more and better products. Sure there will also be benafits for paysites, but thats the idea behind paysites - that people pay to watch the content = $$$$$$ (money is not bad)

The problem for TGPs who want to make their money on pills, dvds etc., but not on content is that paysites will eventual start making their own TGPs to keep the surfer for as long as possible, or trade him with other sponsor´s galleries, tgps etc. Sponsors like BangBros, Pornkings etc. have already started their TGPs, but what will happende when 100s of other sponsors get the same idea, and start making a business out of TGPs?

Which TGP model will have the best survival chances?

- The version with focus on free
- The version with focus on marketing [/b][/quote]
its all competition isnt it, free enterprise at its best...

your point that the sponsors/paysites will start or have started their own TGPs only shows that they are coming around to accept our model as a viable and profitable way to do the business. Now if they tamper too much with it and start to work the surfer over with a barrage of bullshit, then their traffic will drop like a big rock in a bucket of water.

The smart sponsors already know the secret...make good simple galleries, with decent content that will be found on the paysite. Let your content presell your tour, let your tour give the surfer more reason to continue on. Make sure the members area actually gets some updates and provides what the tour said it would. And finally, develop a strong relationship with those TGPs that can market and display your galleries/tours to surfers that actually have the potential to buy something.

FREE is a very powerful word, especially on the interent. i always thought that the average surfer thinks he has paid his dues with his monthly isp bill. So by the nature of the business, you will have a ton of freeloaders. Its how skillful you are at extracting $$ from those people, that will determine how big your bank account is at the end of the year.

*KK*

07-04-2004, 07:29 PM

The most important thing I've gained from this thread is pretty damn simple.

Shemp, KC, you guys need to get to know each other. I have a feeling it would benefit you both.

:)

the Shemp

07-04-2004, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by *KK*@Jul 4 2004, 03:30 PM
The most important thing I've gained from this thread is pretty damn simple.

Shemp, KC, you guys need to get to know each other. I have a feeling it would benefit you both.

:)
i think so :)
now ive figured out who KC is....

Opti

07-04-2004, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by the Shemp@Jul 5 2004, 09:12 AM
your point that the sponsors/paysites will start or have started their own TGPs only shows that they are coming around to accept our model as a viable and profitable way to do the business. Now if they tamper too much with it and start to work the surfer over with a barrage of bullshit, then their traffic will drop like a big rock in a bucket of water.
Sponsor programs are already doing this.. if we do end up totally corrupting the TGP traffic pool with loads of dirty TGP sites full of ads an no content would the surfers just put up with more ads to see the free porn? or stop surfing TGPs altogether? What do you think they will surf if that happens? P2P and newsgroups? Look for paysites to join in google adwords listings maybe...

With porn email traffic already much harder to get... would the biz have a terminal problem if the concentration of surfers around TGPs dispersed is another question worth thinking about it too. (lack of cheap/free sources of bulk traffic will make everyones costs skyrocket)

the Shemp

07-04-2004, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by Opti+Jul 4 2004, 04:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Opti @ Jul 4 2004, 04:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-the Shemp@Jul 5 2004, 09:12 AM
your point that the sponsors/paysites will start or have started their own TGPs only shows that they are coming around to accept our model as a viable and profitable way to do the business. Now if they tamper too much with it and start to work the surfer over with a barrage of bullshit, then their traffic will drop like a big rock in a bucket of water.
Sponsor programs are already doing this.. if we do end up totally corrupting the TGP traffic pool with loads of dirty TGP sites full of ads an no content would the surfers just put up with more ads to see the free porn? or stop surfing TGPs altogether? What do you think they will surf if that happens? P2P and newsgroups? Look for paysites to join in google adwords listings maybe...

With porn email traffic already much harder to get... would the biz have a terminal problem if the concentration of surfers around TGPs dispersed is another question worth thinking about it too. (lack of cheap/free sources of bulk traffic will make everyones costs skyrocket) [/b][/quote]
do you really think surfers will flee their current TGP havens and support sites where they will get "worked over".

the best thing sponsors can do is to try to work with these TGPs, geez its only been 7 years now. they should be going after strategic alliances, where their programs/galleries are highlited on the page, or as i have often arranged.... to take over a FPA page or a complete category page....

Hell Puppy

07-04-2004, 08:20 PM

I'm loving reading Shemp's perspective in this thread. I really appreciate him taking the time to share his thoughts.

masterp74

07-04-2004, 08:23 PM

Originally posted by KC+Jul 4 2004, 02:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (KC @ Jul 4 2004, 02:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-*KK*@Jul 4 2004, 05:11 PM
Amazing. the Hun's banned nearly everyone at some point or another from being on pages he lists. That is his prerogative, after all it's his traffic.

But to sit here and dog on KC for trying to make a buck is just ridiculous.
Thanks KK.

MasterP/Pornstar2Pac/Free-Poker-Ideaman doesn't care about counters or TGPs... he just wants to kick a little dirt in my face. Like you said before, "I've moved on". [/b][/quote]
hey now, I care about people like me not getting fucked by dialers and spyware. don't try to change the subject here. The Hun banned sextracker and paycounter for a reason...not for my amusement

Opti

07-04-2004, 08:28 PM

Originally posted by the Shemp@Jul 5 2004, 10:13 AM
do you really think surfers will flee their current TGP havens and support sites where they will get "worked over".
No of course not... but do you think TGPs can live on bookmarks and trades alone?

If things go the "sponsor tampering" way you mentioned... I do think less people will go in search of any style gallery post to find porn because they will be jaded from hitting crappy sites that look like TGPs all the time.

But I wasnt making a point in my post.. I was more posign the "what if" questions; 1) Where would the traffic go? and 2) Would the industry adapt or die without TGPs?

the Shemp

07-04-2004, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Jul 4 2004, 04:21 PM
I'm loving reading Shemp's perspective in this thread. I really appreciate him taking the time to share his thoughts.
ya, a very good discussion on an old topic.
you know before we had TGPs we had the sears catalog, lingerie section...
its was apparently very effective...

Rolo

07-04-2004, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by the Shemp@Jul 4 2004, 03:12 PM
its all competition isnt it, free enterprise at its best...
Yes, it will be, and I think paysites who start up TGPs will use the "if you can´t join them, then beat them" motivation, and with the amount of hosted galleries being produced by paysites, then I do not think its an impossible task.

I think there is a good amount of surfers, which by nature/situation are freeloaders, because of their age, income/matrial status, country etc. Sure they will end up seaching for free everything, and will never buy anything from the internet - let it adult memberships, dvds, pills etc.
However a good % of surfers are still able, and willing to pay for products - these are the people we want, they are consumers, so why build systems which cater to the lowest form of surfers - the freeloaders? Why not build system, which cater to the consumer instinct, variety of products, experiences etc.?

Freeloaders already have P2P systems like Kazaa etc. however consumers will not use hours on P2P to find their adult entertaiment, just to save $10-$30/month, they got jobs, families etc. to spend their time on, so if they only had the choice between P2P or paysite, then most of them would choose paysites...

Why make a TGP with focus on freeloaders, when TGPs make their money from consumers... is it better to have focus on this group? Sure on a counter a freeloader and a consumer count equal, however its the consumer who buys the subscription, the dvds, the pills, and this is the only thing which matters in the long run.

gonzo

07-04-2004, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by the Shemp+Jul 4 2004, 07:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (the Shemp @ Jul 4 2004, 07:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Hell Puppy@Jul 4 2004, 04:21 PM
I'm loving reading Shemp's perspective in this thread. I really appreciate him taking the time to share his thoughts.
ya, a very good discussion on an old topic.
you know before we had TGPs we had the sears catalog, lingerie section...
its was apparently very effective... [/b][/quote]
Love that! Sears and Roebuck catalog analogy!!

I for one am loving this dialog without someone saying ...hey Shemp why dont you approve my gallery!

the Shemp

07-04-2004, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by Rolo+Jul 4 2004, 04:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rolo @ Jul 4 2004, 04:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-the Shemp@Jul 4 2004, 03:12 PM
its all competition isnt it, free enterprise at its best...
Yes, it will be, and I think paysites who start up TGPs will use the "if you can´t join them, then beat them" motivation, and with the amount of hosted galleries being produced by paysites, then I do not think its an impossible task.

I think there is a good amount of surfers, which by nature/situation are freeloaders, because of their age, income/matrial status, country etc. Sure they will end up seaching for free everything, and will never buy anything from the internet - let it adult memberships, dvds, pills etc.
However a good % of surfers are still able, and willing to pay for products - these are the people we want, they are consumers, so why build systems which cater to the lowest form of surfers - the freeloaders? Why not build system, which cater to the consumer instinct, variety of products, experiences etc.?

Freeloaders already have P2P systems like Kazaa etc. however consumers will not use hours on P2P to find their adult entertaiment, just to save $10-$30/month, they got jobs, families etc. to spend their time on, so if they only had the choice between P2P or paysite, then most of them would choose paysites...

Why make a TGP with focus on freeloaders, when TGPs make their money from consumers... is it better to have focus on this group? Sure on a counter a freeloader and a consumer count equal, however its the consumer who buys the subscription, the dvds, the pills, and this is the only thing which matters in the long run. [/b][/quote]
what site do you run? its a courtesy that i like to know who im talking with....

gonzo

07-04-2004, 08:46 PM

Originally posted by Rolo@Jul 4 2004, 07:34 PM

Freeloaders already have P2P systems like Kazaa etc. however consumers will not use hours on P2P to find their adult entertaiment, just to save $10-$30/month, they got jobs, families etc. to spend their time on, so if they only had the choice between P2P or paysite, then most of them would choose paysites...

I disagree with you about P2P and so does Big Champaigne.

the Shemp

07-04-2004, 08:48 PM

Originally posted by Rolo+Jul 4 2004, 04:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rolo @ Jul 4 2004, 04:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-the Shemp@Jul 4 2004, 03:12 PM
its all competition isnt it, free enterprise at its best...
Yes, it will be, and I think paysites who start up TGPs will use the "if you can´t join them, then beat them" motivation, and with the amount of hosted galleries being produced by paysites, then I do not think its an impossible task.

I think there is a good amount of surfers, which by nature/situation are freeloaders, because of their age, income/matrial status, country etc. Sure they will end up seaching for free everything, and will never buy anything from the internet - let it adult memberships, dvds, pills etc.
However a good % of surfers are still able, and willing to pay for products - these are the people we want, they are consumers, so why build systems which cater to the lowest form of surfers - the freeloaders? Why not build system, which cater to the consumer instinct, variety of products, experiences etc.?

Freeloaders already have P2P systems like Kazaa etc. however consumers will not use hours on P2P to find their adult entertaiment, just to save $10-$30/month, they got jobs, families etc. to spend their time on, so if they only had the choice between P2P or paysite, then most of them would choose paysites...

Why make a TGP with focus on freeloaders, when TGPs make their money from consumers... is it better to have focus on this group? Sure on a counter a freeloader and a consumer count equal, however its the consumer who buys the subscription, the dvds, the pills, and this is the only thing which matters in the long run. [/b][/quote]
are you really saying that the TGP model needs to be changed for my benefit or for someones elses benefit? you sound like you are whining about the success of the TGPs... the surfers ultimately decide who makes money and who doesnt, all the theories and speculation dont mean a lot.

If the TGP model didnt work it would have died real quick, the surfers liked it and they still like it. Surfers still buy memerships too, but of course with those thousands and thousands of paysites out there, its a little bit thin now...

07-04-2004, 09:19 PM

The point of this industry is to generate revenue from adult traffic. We're not in the business of giving away unlimited amounts of free porn to anyone and everyone (including kids! but that's another issue altogether).

TGP owners in general seem to think that using techniques like exit consoles, dialers or even "too many links" is pushing the surfer too hard. I tend to believe that giving away too much porn (whether it's a TGP, P2P Network) for free harms the adult industry as a whole by devaluing the traffic supply.

As competition increases (and as more free porn is disributed) several things are happening in order for people to maintain revenue levels.
- Exit consoles
- Dialers
- Increased Spamming
- Agressive Cross Sales
- Misleading Toolbars
- Spyware/Adware

I've even been hearing about spyware/Virus that hijacks people's computers to swap out affiliate codes on all kinds of sites including adult!!

What other industry gives away so much free product in order to sell more of that same product? Imagine applying the unlimited FREE PORN model to other businesses. I'm not just talking about loss leaders, I'm talking just pissing away product for free.

Car dealships giving away an unlimited supply of free low end cars in order to sell full featured cars!

Movie Theatres showing unlimited films for free outside in order to upsell the nice comfy seats inside!

IBM, Dell, Compaq all giving away unlimited laptops for free to show off the features of their higher end models that cost thousands of dollars.

The key word is Unlimited. To me the model doesn't make sense and even if it did work, it won't work for long because it's devaluing it's own traffic supply. Has anyone else noticed how important paid placement has become to TGP's survival?

I'm not saying TGPs are terrible and people that are extremely agressive with the surfers are perfect. I think there is a happy medium that can be found. Of course the genie is out of the bottle with TGPs and it's not going to go back in unless sponsors stopped accepting TGP traffic for some reason. As we know, money talks and bullshit walks. There will always be sponsors willing to buy the signups!

gonzo

07-04-2004, 09:23 PM

KC dont try to shoulder TGPs with the burden of creating the environment for the bullshit toolbars now.

07-04-2004, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by gonzo@Jul 4 2004, 08:24 PM
KC dont try to shoulder TGPs with the burden of creating the environment for the bullshit toolbars now.
I edited my original post to add the following paragraph.... I don't blame them directly.

I'm not saying TGPs are terrible and people that are extremely agressive with the surfers are perfect. I think there is a happy medium that can be found. Of course the genie is out of the bottle with TGPs and it's not going to go back in unless sponsors stopped accepting TGP traffic for some reason. As we know, money talks and bullshit walks. There will always be sponsors willing to buy the signups!

07-04-2004, 09:26 PM

Another thing that kills me is the Hun will ban a counter that uses exit consoles and/or dialers on the same day that he runs galleries promoting Beastiality.

from http://thehun.net/

July 4: A woman loving her dog in this movie from Antwan
July 2: Two blondes doing a horse from Mikael

gonzo

07-04-2004, 09:26 PM

Originally posted by KC+Jul 4 2004, 08:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (KC @ Jul 4 2004, 08:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-gonzo@Jul 4 2004, 08:24 PM
KC dont try to shoulder TGPs with the burden of creating the environment for the bullshit toolbars now.
I edited my original post to add the following paragraph.... I don't blame them directly.

I'm not saying TGPs are terrible and people that are extremely agressive with the surfers are perfect. I think there is a happy medium that can be found. Of course the genie is out of the bottle with TGPs and it's not going to go back in unless sponsors stopped accepting TGP traffic for some reason. As we know, money talks and bullshit walks. There will always be sponsors willing to buy the signups! [/b][/quote]
didnt you just say in this thread that it was all about the revenue?

Rolo

07-04-2004, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by the Shemp@Jul 4 2004, 04:49 PM
are you really saying that the TGP model needs to be changed for my benefit or for someones elses benefit? you sound like you are whining about the success of the TGPs... the surfers ultimately decide who makes money and who doesnt, all the theories and speculation dont mean a lot.
Without this turning into a debat about philosophy, then I could retort with "do surfers really have a free will where they end up? or are they presented with preselected options which they can choose from?"... sure those are also options, which they can choose from, but if the product/service/desire is not amongst the options, then they might just choose not too choose anything. Thats why its important to give surfers/consumers variety, and always market to them... the more options they see, the higher the chance they will consume.

I´m not whining, because as I said in a previous post, then the TGP evolution has already begun... what I´m saying is that TGPs, paysites, affiliates etc. need to realize that this will be the time, when we can rethink old concepts, since there will be more focus on making $$$... paysite should focus on better sites, tgps should allow more and better ads, and affiliates should learn to market without giving it all away for free... cause and effect will make everyone more $$$.

07-04-2004, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by gonzo+Jul 4 2004, 08:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gonzo @ Jul 4 2004, 08:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by KC@Jul 4 2004, 08:25 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-gonzo@Jul 4 2004, 08:24 PM
KC dont try to shoulder TGPs with the burden of creating the environment for the bullshit toolbars now.
I edited my original post to add the following paragraph.... I don't blame them directly.

I'm not saying TGPs are terrible and people that are extremely agressive with the surfers are perfect. I think there is a happy medium that can be found. Of course the genie is out of the bottle with TGPs and it's not going to go back in unless sponsors stopped accepting TGP traffic for some reason. As we know, money talks and bullshit walks. There will always be sponsors willing to buy the signups!
didnt you just say in this thread that it was all about the revenue? [/b][/quote]
It's not revenue at any cost. However, It's about revenue for sure!

07-04-2004, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by Rolo@Jul 4 2004, 08:29 PM
TGPs, paysites, affiliates etc. need to realize that this will be the time, when we can rethink old concepts, since there will be more focus on making $$$... paysite should focus on better sites, tgps should allow more and better ads, and affiliates should learn to market without giving it all away for free... cause and effect will make everyone more $$$.
I agree 100%.

gonzo

07-04-2004, 09:30 PM

07-04-2004, 09:32 PM

Originally posted by gonzo+Jul 4 2004, 08:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gonzo @ Jul 4 2004, 08:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-KC@Jul 4 2004, 08:27 PM
Another thing that kills me is the Hun will ban a counter that uses exit consoles and/or dialers on the same day that he runs galleries promoting Beastiality.

from http://thehun.net/

July 4: A woman loving her dog in this movie from Antwan
July 2: Two blondes doing a horse from Mikael
Its all about the revenue eh? [/b][/quote]
Are you in the biz for your health? Are we all making the world a better place by provding surfers more FREE Jack Off material?

Maybe so, I don't know.

gonzo

07-04-2004, 09:36 PM

Originally posted by KC+Jul 4 2004, 08:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (KC @ Jul 4 2004, 08:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by gonzo@Jul 4 2004, 08:31 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-KC@Jul 4 2004, 08:27 PM
Another thing that kills me is the Hun will ban a counter that uses exit consoles and/or dialers on the same day that he runs galleries promoting Beastiality.

from http://thehun.net/

July 4: A woman loving her dog in this movie from Antwan
July 2: Two blondes doing a horse from Mikael
Its all about the revenue eh?
Are you in the biz for your health? Are we all making the world a better place by provding surfers more FREE Jack Off material?

Maybe so, I don't know. [/b][/quote]
I think its more than just about th revenue....responsible revenue without destroying the biz.

07-04-2004, 09:45 PM

Originally posted by gonzo@Jul 4 2004, 08:37 PM
I think its more than just about th revenue....responsible revenue without destroying the biz.
I agree with that too... In fact, I'm sure every webmaster would agree with that statement. The problem, is "responsible revenue" is subjective...

What's responsible and reasonable to one is abusing the surfer to another.

One of the main contributing factors causing people to push the envelope is declining revenue. Even mainstream sites from CNN to the DrudgeReport use popups/popunders when 2 years ago they wouldn't have considered it.

I predict some TGPs will eventually utilize some of the very revenue streams they are banning today.

Remember when 80% of the industry hated the popups used by the other 20%? Now 20% of the industry hates the 80% that uses them. Just an observation.

Hell Puppy

07-04-2004, 10:02 PM

Most of the problems I'm seeing outlined above are a byproduct of the industry's tendacy toward wanting to take shortcuts and get rich quick.

Very very few people treat their users as customers. Instead they use deception and every trick they can think of to force them to where they want them to be and in many cases charge them for things they never asked to buy.

As surfers have gotten smarter, and billing has gotten more restrictive, margins have shrunk. The result for many companies is desperation and pushing the envelope even harder. We cling to the model of $35 PPS for affiliates even though a signup is worth maybe a third of that these days. No one will back off on the price because they'll lose that traffic to the guy who says he still pays it....even though he's really shaving everyone raw.

Trying to compare what TGPs are doing to giving away free cars doesn't fly. Stick with media comparisons. It's really more like television. You get plenty of free channels loaded with great programming, but you have to put up with commercials.

Do advertisers bitch at the networks if their commercials aren't working? No, the only thing they care about is how many people see 'em. Making the commercial effective and having the product sell is the advertiser's problem. Nor is the answer trying to have certain channels on the dish or cable box that when you tune into them suddenly break your receiver so it only goes to channels owned by that advertiser.

There's gotta be an attitude shift as much as anything before things get better. Now please do go ahead and tell me I'm stupid for not making tens of millions fleecing surfers 5 years ago...

Nickatilynx

07-04-2004, 11:36 PM

I think its more than just about th revenue....responsible revenue without destroying the biz.

WTF!!!!

I hate that shit mate , sorry.

Responsible pornographers ahahahahahahaha

pornographers with morals ahahahahahahahaha

No matter what shady , iffy things happen , are done , whatever "the biz" will not be destroyed.

Changed , yes. Not destroyed.

And when things change , the smart evolve.

I think this "biz" is do for some changes and those that adapt will survive.

While I'm on this rant.....

I don't know about other webmasters , but if I could make as much money sending traffic to "Buy these golf clubs" as I could by sendeing to "Nuns raped by nazi storn troopers horses" , I'd send to the gold clubs. (its actually now turning that way)

Personally I'm not in the adult business per se , I'm in the traffic/marketing/internet business.

There will always be an adult entertainment business of some sort , but I find myself moving more and more away from it.

Nickatilynx

07-04-2004, 11:40 PM

Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Jul 4 2004, 06:03 PM

Now please do go ahead and tell me I'm stupid for not making tens of millions fleecing surfers 5 years ago...
Consider it done ;-)))

Hell Puppy

07-05-2004, 12:25 AM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Jul 4 2004, 10:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Jul 4 2004, 10:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Hell Puppy@Jul 4 2004, 06:03 PM

Now please do go ahead and tell me I'm stupid for not making tens of millions fleecing surfers 5 years ago...
Consider it done ;-))) [/b][/quote]
Thanks Nick, knew I could count on you!

Cleo

07-05-2004, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by KC@Jul 4 2004, 08:27 PM
Another thing that kills me is the Hun will ban a counter that uses exit consoles and/or dialers on the same day that he runs galleries promoting Beastiality.

from http://thehun.net/

July 4: A woman loving her dog in this movie from Antwan
July 2: Two blondes doing a horse from Mikael
I find bestiality to be pretty gross, but as a vegetarian I have to say that having sex with animals is not nearly as nasty as killing them and eating their flesh.

I've found that if the Hun likes your gallery a lot but doesn't list it he will take the time to send you mail about it. He said that my advertising was too aggressive on this gallery of mine http://kinky-cleo.com/porn/trans/eve-with-...ke/tgp/hun.html (http://kinky-cleo.com/porn/trans/eve-with-her-snake/tgp/hun.html) Guess it was the snake, either the one on the model or the one with scales, that made him take the time to tell me that my gallery sucked.

Actually I think that TGPs are like a cancer in this business, but being the traffic whore that I am I build galleries just like the rest.

Winetalk.com

07-05-2004, 10:46 AM

Cleo, how did your TGP earnings change in the last 3 years?

Cleo

07-05-2004, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Jul 5 2004, 09:47 AM
Cleo, how did your TGP earnings change in the last 3 years?
My earnings are way up from 3 years ago, but this is due mostly to sales off of my own traffic.

I only have a few TGPs that I actually see sales off of the galleries. The rest are done just to get my recip and links out there.

Traffic is a lot of hard work to get and real easy to loose so I build and submit something every day. Some days it is a gallery and some days it is a free site. Doesn't really matter as it is all the same content but I see way more sales off of my free sites but not nearly as much sales as I see from my own internal traffic.

I actually haven't submitted something to the Hun in a very long time but recently have been trying to get something listed with Angel's site as a sponsor since I have done extremely well with his traffic if it is something that his surfers have not seen before.

gonzo

07-05-2004, 11:07 AM

Grogan has tranny traffic....

Cleo

07-05-2004, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by the Shemp@Jul 4 2004, 07:49 PM
If the TGP model didnt work it would have died real quick, the surfers liked it and they still like it. Surfers still buy memerships too, but of course with those thousands and thousands of paysites out there, its a little bit thin now...
Guess I should point out that Shemp's TGP is one of the very few that I actually see sales off of my galleries.

Mike AI

07-05-2004, 11:18 AM

What a great thread. Very interesting for sure.

There is a huge difference between pop-ups and spyware. Those who are pushing spyware should have their nuts cut off. Pop-ups might be annoynig but spyware is all about STEALING!

masterp74

07-05-2004, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 5 2004, 07:19 AM
What a great thread. Very interesting for sure.

There is a huge difference between pop-ups and spyware. Those who are pushing spyware should have their nuts cut off. Pop-ups might be annoynig but spyware is all about STEALING!
yes Mike. The few threads that I do start always end up being industry movers or shakers.

dantheman

07-05-2004, 12:14 PM

good thread:)

May I use this oppt:) yo shemp, did u get my email last week?

the Shemp

07-05-2004, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by dantheman@Jul 5 2004, 08:15 AM
good thread:)

May I use this oppt:) yo shemp, did u get my email last week?
no Dan...
try
rob at shemp dot com

:)

*KK*

07-05-2004, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by the Shemp+Jul 4 2004, 03:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (the Shemp @ Jul 4 2004, 03:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-*KK*@Jul 4 2004, 03:30 PM
The most important thing I've gained from this thread is pretty damn simple.

Shemp, KC, you guys need to get to know each other. I have a feeling it would benefit you both.

:)
i think so :)
now ive figured out who KC is.... [/b][/quote]
I'll be happy to buy you both a drink in Miami and introduce you properly :)

Mike AI

07-05-2004, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by *KK*+Jul 5 2004, 03:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (*KK* @ Jul 5 2004, 03:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by the Shemp@Jul 4 2004, 03:36 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-*KK*@Jul 4 2004, 03:30 PM
The most important thing I've gained from this thread is pretty damn simple.

Shemp, KC, you guys need to get to know each other. I have a feeling it would benefit you both.

:)
i think so :)
now ive figured out who KC is....
I'll be happy to buy you both a drink in Miami and introduce you properly :) [/b][/quote]
2 players being introduced on Oprano?

What are the odds?

:rolleyes:

Winetalk.com

07-05-2004, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by Mike AI+Jul 5 2004, 05:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike AI @ Jul 5 2004, 05:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by *KK*@Jul 5 2004, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by the Shemp@Jul 4 2004, 03:36 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-*KK*@Jul 4 2004, 03:30 PM
The most important thing I've gained from this thread is pretty damn simple.

Shemp, KC, you guys need to get to know each other. I have a feeling it would benefit you both.

:)
i think so :)
now ive figured out who KC is....
I'll be happy to buy you both a drink in Miami and introduce you properly :)
2 players being introduced on Oprano?

What are the odds?

:rolleyes: [/b][/quote]
in the words of Crocodile Dundee when he was asked what are the chances of him getting out of the joint alive:
"Better than average"
;-))))

Vick

07-05-2004, 07:45 PM

Sorry I have only read 10 words in this thread and the obviously best things for Paysite owners to do is

GET RID OF TGP'S PERMANENTLY - they encourage leeches, turned paying customers into freeloaders and provide porn for underage users and others without means of paying

regrettably for at least a little while more they are here to stay

Here come look at my TGP, we give away 10,000+ free pictures everyday
and we don't let our gallery makers put more than one ad up and they pics have to be good quality and of a certain size

Shemp - nothing personal, only business - you seem like a great intelligent guy and have the respect of many (except you operate TGP's)

Do you have any idea how much more money you would have made over the past 3-4 years if you and many other's like you didn't give away an abundance of free porn?

Want to see titties pull out your credit card surfer? No Credit Card - bank account, phone billing - oh ... underage - well get off my bandwidth and go look at legal pics of Britney or something

and Shemp to prove my point, you personally can not make earn more than $50 per day from the top spot on your TGP, how many hits does that gallery you sell for $1500 a month get a day?

http://www.sexlist.com/?catid=
If I'm reading correctly your sexlist stats say you've done over 313,261 just today to that page, so someone paying $50 for one of your prime spots may get let's say 30,000 clicks and they send maybe 10,000 clicks to the sponsor
so they have to do 1 in 10,000 (or a little better to be profitable)

am guessing you weren't doing that so selling the spots became a better business model (which I can respest and admire)

Furthermore
Your add says!!!
The New Shemp, an Original TGP. Free Porn for the People!

Why do you tell people porn is free
NO NO NO
NO FUCKING FREE PORN, what are you, up for the porn sainthood?
You got to pay to play

I really hope you are a millionaire a few times over, if not you could have been

and again - nothing personal - only business

and I'd don't care to hear from the TGP peanut gallery but Shemp and sites like his have cost many hundred's of thousands if not millions of dollars and have been one of the primary reasons for the decline in the adult on-line porn industry

Nickatilynx

07-05-2004, 07:48 PM

Why do you tell people porn is free
NO NO NO
NO FUCKING FREE PORN, what are you, up for the porn sainthood?
You got to pay to play

I :inlove: Vick :)

07-05-2004, 08:00 PM

Why is it that so many people claim to have great conversions with TGP traffic... and so many others think that TGP's are the cause of all evil and everything that is wrong with adult? I have always found that to be pretty amusing. There are a pretty big descrepency in opinions and clearly people are still making a lot of money. I never see 100 people crying "thats not possible" when someone says "i am doing 1:500 with this gallery on The Hun"... on GFY. That tells me something.

You cannot put the genie back in the bottle Vick, no matter how much you might wish to. All you can do is out think and outwork the rest of the idiots out there. Anyone that thinks that is too tough... is in the wrong business in my opinion. I see a lot of morons making money today. Just as many morons as there always has been. If anything, there are more.

You cannot stop free content or stop people from using the word "Free". The word "free" is a mainstay of marketing both online and off. It's one of those magic words that grabs people attention that leads to SALES. The market will decide the business models. That is how a free market works. People follow business models that work. Thats how a free market evolves.

Porn hit the web, surfers were ignorant, money was easy and so many people lament about the "good ole days"... rather than understanding that every business evolves and it's up to the businessmen to evolve just as fast or be left behind. Those getting left behind today are complaining that everyone should be working together to turn back the clock as if that was possible. You can't make surfers ignorant and innexperienced again. You can only understand them and improve how you sell to them. They are your market.

just an opinion.

Nickatilynx

07-05-2004, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by JR@Jul 5 2004, 04:01 PM
Why is it that so many people claim to have great conversions with TGP traffic... and so many others think that TGP's are the cause of all evil and everything that is wrong with adult? I have always found that to be pretty amusing. There are a pretty big descrepency in opinions and clearly people are still making a lot of money. I never see 100 people crying "thats not possible" when someone says "i am doing 1:500 with this gallery on The Hun"... on GFY. That tells me something.

You cannot put the genie back in the bottle Vick, no matter how much you might wish to. All you can do is out think and outwork the rest of the idiots out there. Anyone that thinks that is too tough... is in the wrong business in my opinion. I see a lot of morons making money today. Just as many morons as there always has been. If anything, there are more.

You cannot stop free content or stop people from using the word "Free". The word "free" is a mainstay of marketing both online and off. It's one of those magic words that grabs people attention that leads to SALES. The market will decide the business models. That is how a free market works. People follow business models that work. Thats how a free market evolves.

Porn hit the web, surfers were ignorant, money was easy and so many people lament about the "good ole days"... rather than understanding that every business evolves and it's up to the businessmen to evolve just as fast or be left behind. Those getting left behind today are complaining that everyone should be working together to turn back the clock as if that was possible. You can't make surfers ignorant and innexperienced again. You can only understand them and improve how you sell to them. They are your market.

just an opinion.
I :inlove: JR

What can I say , my opinions can change ;-)))

Rolo

07-05-2004, 08:47 PM

If the adult industry had used the same amount on lawyers in 1996-1997 as we do today, then I´m sure we could have killed the TGP business before it took off, but this was not how we as an industry choosed to deal with it back then, and now in 2004 free porn is here to stay...

However that doesn´t mean that we are doomed into a neverending battle between free porn and paid porn - we need to refocus on our own business model, have TGPs be part of the paid porn business by making them depended on revenue and fresh content from paid porn, and to take more control of the marketing. This is how paid porn will take control of the free porn again - not by the use of lawyers, or politicians, but by the use of $$$ and creative minds.

*KK*

07-05-2004, 08:50 PM

ANY traffic can be converted into money. It's just a matter of whether or not the ROI makes it worth it.

I know a couple of guys from Victoria that have been the top resellers for both Maxcash and ARS, using purchased Hun spots. Of course you also have the people that can't pay their bandwidth bill when they get a Hun listing.

At the end of the day, it just is what it is. There's no one right way to to do this or there would be one program, one link list, one tgp, one billing company, etc.

Nickatilynx

07-05-2004, 08:58 PM

KK,

Very true post.....

I think I gave them money back (shudders) ;-))

However , what with adult sponsors shaving and everything else....

I'm hoping to either fail or bail in the next couple of months and corner "Traffic"...it can be non-adult or adult.

Few mainstream people will take adult.

Vick

07-05-2004, 09:38 PM

JR - you're right, the genie doesn't go back into th bottle
so all we do is make the most $ we can hoping for the TGP movement to fall under it's own weight - Also while we move into other more profitable/enjoyable industries

also JR, many bullshit in this business? Who's really going to have the balls to say I lost money on the TGP spots I bought boo-hoo-hoo - think that's what you're really going to hear?

and the $ you're talking abut being made today doesn't compare what what was made in 1997-2001 - you know it and I know it

and I am one of the stupidest companies/webmaster ever by not saving/investing enough during that time to retire - so yes I somewhat deserve a retard tag, never thought the $ would stop rolling in

The vacations, house, cars and clothes, dinners, furnishing, theater and so on and so on were all very nice (many others were rumored to have pissed away their $ on dope or women or what have you, at least I got some substantial things)

I was too fucking stupid to read about, study and understand new market economies, it was all here for me to study, the Gold Rush, the Industrial Revolution, Radio, Movies, TV

So while I will piss on what I perceive to be some of the causes of the decline of revenue generation from the adult on-line industry I know I bought my own share of it as well

Read what I posted before. TGP owners do not earn a fraction of what they possibly could - no one can reasonably or logically dispute that

MOST/MANY TGP's do not depend on Sponsor Programs for the bulk of their income - they could not convert well enough to maintain reasonable profit margins so they went to selling gallery spots (which I must admit is a gr4eat way to monetize) but how long until those buying gallery spots can convert well enough to be profitable (I've expected it to happen sooner than now so ....)

So basically the TGP's really don't have to care about the sponsor or conversions, they have to PT Barnum and wait for the sucker to be born every minute

When that happens TGP's will need a new revenue generation model or they may go under

Truth be told, TGP'S and paysite no longer work together, TGP'S are the actual enemy of the Paysite - more so that P2P networks and Newsgroups

07-05-2004, 09:55 PM

Originally posted by Vick@Jul 5 2004, 05:39 PM

and the $ you're talking abut being made today doesn't compare what what was made in 1997-2001 - you know it and I know it

-----------------

Truth be told, TGP'S and paysite no longer work together, TGP'S are the actual enemy of the Paysite - more so that P2P networks and Newsgroups

KK said:
"I know a couple of guys from Victoria that have been the top resellers for both Maxcash and ARS, using purchased Hun spots"

sounds like TGP's and paysites work pretty well together to me.

Sykk is doing 1:200 with hun traffic and non-nude sites. Sounds pretty 97'ish to me. In fact MANY people do quite well with TGP traffic while others say right now, today that it is a complete waste of time. Many people do quite well listing the same thing in the same TGP that others claim is a waste of time.

I don't share your optimism that TGP's will go away. I don't think they will. I am also VERY comfortable with the fact that I can reach out with a few paid link spots or banners and reach a few million people looking for what I have to sell. It's my job to always be good at closing the deal and to stay ahead of the curve.

Where are you going to get your traffic when TGP's go away? Everyone is going to do whatever works best and any shift will happen with the industry as a whole. If the new hot thing is creating yahoo groups... in a matter of weeks there will be too many Yahoo groups to make it worth while. Whatever happens in the future and with whatever changes may come, the basic problems will ALWAYS remain the same...
That is that some will adjust, adapt, overcome and effectively compete as people are today with making money with TGP's and many will just quietly fade away complaining that someone, or something else is the problem and the reason for thier failure. It is always your choice as to which of those people you will become.

Truth be told, TGP'S and paysite no longer work together, TGP'S are the actual enemy of the Paysite - more so that P2P networks and Newsgroups

They are working quite well for a lot of people. Sykk is a good example. There are countless others.

KK said "I know a couple of guys from Victoria that have been the top resellers for both Maxcash and ARS, using purchased Hun spots"

sounds like TGP's and paysites work pretty well together still.

gonzo

07-05-2004, 10:08 PM

The TGP illiterate have spoken!

masterp74

07-05-2004, 10:20 PM

so are there any counters out there that just count views and clicks? nothing more, no ads, no dialers, no toolbars, no spyware, no sport scores updates. JUST A FUCKING COUNTER?????

no need to pay me .05 cents a click.

gonzo

07-05-2004, 10:25 PM

Originally posted by Rolo@Jul 5 2004, 07:48 PM
If the adult industry had used the same amount on lawyers in 1996-1997 as we do today, then I´m sure we could have killed the TGP business before it took off, but this was not how we as an industry choosed to deal with it back then, and now in 2004 free porn is here to stay...

However that doesn´t mean that we are doomed into a neverending battle between free porn and paid porn - we need to refocus on our own business model, have TGPs be part of the paid porn business by making them depended on revenue and fresh content from paid porn, and to take more control of the marketing. This is how paid porn will take control of the free porn again - not by the use of lawyers, or politicians, but by the use of $$$ and creative minds.
Best analogy Ive seen in this thread is that TGPs are to the adult world what free programming is to television. A vehicle to sell advertsing.

I can tell you Shemp isnt here to justify or defend the existance of TGPs but rather to hopefully work better together within the industry.

And Ill restate it again...like it or not. TGPs remain one of the last EASY ways of getting any traffic to your programs.

*KK*

07-05-2004, 10:35 PM

Originally posted by masterp74@Jul 5 2004, 06:21 PM
so are there any counters out there that just count views and clicks? nothing more, no ads, no dialers, no toolbars, no spyware, no sport scores updates. JUST A FUCKING COUNTER?????

no need to pay me .05 cents a click.
Um, hello, that's what server stats are for.

Vick

07-05-2004, 11:22 PM

Well gentlemen we have a very large difference of opinions on TGP's

But the bottom line question will always remain

Would we all make more money if TGP's didn't exist (as well as the glut of free porn)?
No need for long drawn out explanations or justifications

Just a simple yes or no?

and there is much I personally disagree with being posted here and I feel I have given some reasonable examples (and some of the comebacks haven't even scratched the real issues $$$$$$)

Differrent strokes for different folks and so on and son and scoobie doobie doobie

*KK*

07-05-2004, 11:42 PM

If it hadn't been tgps, it would have been something else Vick, that's the nature of evolution.

Rolo

07-05-2004, 11:53 PM

Originally posted by gonzo@Jul 5 2004, 06:26 PM
Best analogy Ive seen in this thread is that TGPs are to the adult world what free programming is to television. A vehicle to sell advertsing.
Yes, and as a advertising vehicle, then they will hopefully evolve into better understanding/balance between free and pay. I think having Shemp and Vick here is good - the debate would be boring without some different perspective :)

We are currently working on programming features, which will make us better at converting/retaining each unique TGP´s traffic (the demographics can be very different at tgps), however that doesn´t mean that TGPs should stop working/improving their own traffic - making it more focused on buying/consuming.

Some TGPs are good at working with their traffic, however many hurt their traffic by trying to protect surfers from ads, and overfeeding them with hardcore content. Others are just standing still waiting for some input - ex.:

- why is it that TGPs still have rules about pics/videos not being on html, but must be directly linked from the main page of the gallery - sure if you trust your paysite partner or submiter, then it would not hurt the surfer to watch the pic/video on page with ads to the paysite?

- why use the word "free" on the TGPs, when we want people to "pay" - if TGPs owners are right about smart surfers, then surfers already know its free, so why keep reminding them? Its like saying "hey, you are stupid if you pay".

- why list video galleries with several minutes of videos, when 3 * 10 sec is enough for a surfer to get a feel of the content - do we want him to click more galleries on the TGP or go to the paysite, then it won´t happen if he has already cummed.

- why list galleries with little creativity, which shows ALL to surfers, but leaves little to the imagination (ex. cumshot/moneyshot) - porn is a fantasy, not a animal planet documentary, we do not see hollywood putting their "plots" in the trailers.

- why have a advertising vehicle, where the driver of the vehicle do not communicate with his AND potential advertisers... advertisers might have some constructive feedback based on experience working with other advertising vehicles :)

Rolo

07-05-2004, 11:58 PM

Originally posted by Vick@Jul 5 2004, 07:23 PM
Would we all make more money if TGP's didn't exist (as well as the glut of free porn)?
No need for long drawn out explanations or justifications

Just a simple yes or no?
Yes

masterp74

07-06-2004, 12:17 AM

Originally posted by *KK*+Jul 5 2004, 06:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (*KK* @ Jul 5 2004, 06:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-masterp74@Jul 5 2004, 06:21 PM
so are there any counters out there that just count views and clicks? nothing more, no ads, no dialers, no toolbars, no spyware, no sport scores updates. JUST A FUCKING COUNTER?????

no need to pay me .05 cents a click.
Um, hello, that's what server stats are for. [/b][/quote]
that would be too simple.

the Shemp

07-06-2004, 12:54 AM

Gonzo amd others told me that this would be an interesting board for me to post at but i have to say with all respect, the arguements against TGPs are pretty much the same ones that were voiced in 1998. What has changed is that the "bad" galleries you mention above, are now provided by the sponsors/paysites.

Why do paysites provide hardcore galleries to affiliates that have been in the business for 10 minutes? Why do they bust their ass and have designers building the "lowly" and "hated TGP gallery?

You guys are smart enough to know that the consumer drives the business, not you. The customer determines who will succeed or fail, not you. You want to "shape" the business to your mold, for your benefit and you want everyone else to conform to what is best for the paysite owner....

I really appreciate the earlier post analyzing my business plan. i really do.

i went through something like this a couple of years ago when the TGP2 movement told me i would be out of business in a couple of months...well damn, guess what...

anyway, im not feeling very good about the negativity towards my way of making money...not really up for a long drawn out battle either, as i have 4000 galleries to review tonite.....trust me, i have nothing to prove to anyone on this board...

07-06-2004, 01:33 AM

Originally posted by Vick@Jul 5 2004, 07:23 PM

Would we all make more money if TGP's didn't exist (as well as the glut of free porn)?
No need for long drawn out explanations or justifications

Just a simple yes or no?

no.

Rolo

07-06-2004, 02:05 AM

We have also heard the arguments about paysite programs having shaving systems, cookiecutter sites etc. since 1998... lets just say this business runs in circles, however once in a while we have a chance to make it better, because of new technology, ideas or situations. This is one of those times - the hosted galleries, paid spots etc. will and have changed business, now we just need to keep making it better :-)

Hosted galleries are new in most paysite programs - many programs having cookiecutter sites will mostly like also have cookiecutter galleries... but just as the TGP business is evolving then the paysite business is also evolving with more focus on making $$$ by providing quality - sure cookiecutter sites will still be here, however just as TGP who do not add hosted galleries, or sell their gallery spots, then they will miss opportunity.

When I talk about TGPs, then I´m not thinking about anyone in particular... like I said in a previous post, then there are different demographics at the TGPs, and I also see more and more tgp owners becomming business people or working with business people in making the TGP concept better. The evolution has begun.

I think its important that we understand that this is not a TGP2 movement, where you have to follow certain rules. This is business, and like you said, then money talks - why else would all major TGPs sell their gallery spots? And this is just the beginning, soon they will be 100% hosted galleries and gallery spots, and after that, when they want more money, then they will start optimizing their sites/concepts working with the advertisers, etc. etc.

Oprano is a no bullshit zone, with no bullshit people, and no bullshit business... you do not need to prove anything else :awinky:

Hell Puppy

07-06-2004, 02:08 AM

Originally posted by masterp74@Jul 5 2004, 09:21 PM
so are there any counters out there that just count views and clicks? nothing more, no ads, no dialers, no toolbars, no spyware, no sport scores updates. JUST A FUCKING COUNTER?????

no need to pay me .05 cents a click.
Geez....doesn't anyone know how to fucking load mkstats or analog or any similar server side stats program anymore?

How the fuck do you people know what your traffic REALLY looks like if you aren't counting it yourself?

Mike AI

07-06-2004, 02:10 AM

Originally posted by the Shemp@Jul 5 2004, 11:55 PM
Gonzo amd others told me that this would be an interesting board for me to post at but i have to say with all respect, the arguements against TGPs are pretty much the same ones that were voiced in 1998. What has changed is that the "bad" galleries you mention above, are now provided by the sponsors/paysites.

Why do paysites provide hardcore galleries to affiliates that have been in the business for 10 minutes? Why do they bust their ass and have designers building the "lowly" and "hated TGP gallery?

You guys are smart enough to know that the consumer drives the business, not you. The customer determines who will succeed or fail, not you. You want to "shape" the business to your mold, for your benefit and you want everyone else to conform to what is best for the paysite owner....

I really appreciate the earlier post analyzing my business plan. i really do.

i went through something like this a couple of years ago when the TGP2 movement told me i would be out of business in a couple of months...well damn, guess what...

anyway, im not feeling very good about the negativity towards my way of making money...not really up for a long drawn out battle either, as i have 4000 galleries to review tonite.....trust me, i have nothing to prove to anyone on this board...

Shemp, I do not think there were any attacks on you. People just giving their opinions, just like you have given yours.

I certainly do not think anyone disrespects the succes you have built, and that you did not make the rules of the game, you excelled!

The fact is TGPs are here, there are not going away, so those who do not like them, better learn how to operate with them.

I have personally been working on my own TGPs for months now, and are about to launch 2 others.... I wish I would have jumped on the bandwagon back in 98!

Hell Puppy

07-06-2004, 02:25 AM

Originally posted by Vick@Jul 5 2004, 10:23 PM

Would we all make more money if TGP's didn't exist (as well as the glut of free porn)?
No need for long drawn out explanations or justifications

Just a simple yes or no?

no.

it's all numbers. this industry will always take quantity over quality and figure out how to make money off of it. simple math, which would you rather have?

100,000 visitors that'll convert at 1:5000

or

2,000 visitors that'll convert at 1:400

No brainer right?

And we're in a market right now where the price of both bandwidth and content has been steadily falling like a rock. The smart marketer learns how to use that to his/her advantage.

Vick -- all due respect, but you're coming across as pining away for days gone by with absolutely no knowledge of the TGP game.

TGPs are not responsible for global warming, the war in iraq, or the fact that britney spears is marrying some wigger dancer.

Mike AI

07-06-2004, 02:31 AM

TGPs are not responsible for global warming, the war in iraq, or the fact that britney spears is marrying some wigger dancer.

I think this is a Pearl!

Anyone knows it's not TGPs fault, it's Bush's!!

slavdogg

07-06-2004, 04:20 AM

Originally posted by Vick@Jul 5 2004, 06:46 PM
I really hope you are a millionaire a few times over, if not you could have been
So how many TGP owners have become millionares from TGPs only??

Rolo

07-06-2004, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by slavdogg@Jul 6 2004, 12:21 AM
So how many TGP owners have become millionares from TGPs only??
The silence is ear deafening :awinky:

gonzo

07-06-2004, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by Rolo+Jul 6 2004, 03:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rolo @ Jul 6 2004, 03:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-slavdogg@Jul 6 2004, 12:21 AM
So how many TGP owners have become millionares from TGPs only??
The silence is ear deafening :awinky: [/b][/quote]
I think Shemp is waiting for you to tell him which TGP your running.

Peaches

07-06-2004, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by Rolo+Jul 6 2004, 04:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rolo @ Jul 6 2004, 04:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-slavdogg@Jul 6 2004, 12:21 AM
So how many TGP owners have become millionares from TGPs only??
The silence is ear deafening :awinky: [/b][/quote]
It's probably the same silence you'd hear if you asked "How many TGP owners have read this question". :awinky:

gonzo

07-06-2004, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by Peaches+Jul 6 2004, 03:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Jul 6 2004, 03:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Rolo@Jul 6 2004, 04:06 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-slavdogg@Jul 6 2004, 12:21 AM
So how many TGP owners have become millionares from TGPs only??
The silence is ear deafening :awinky:
It's probably the same silence you'd hear if you asked "How many TGP owners have read this question". :awinky: [/b][/quote]
Well you know folks like Richard,The Hun,AL4A and their ilk are mere paupers.

Rolo

07-06-2004, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by gonzo@Jul 6 2004, 12:19 PM
I think Shemp is waiting for you to tell him which TGP your running.
I tought we talked about how many - not who?

Rolo

07-06-2004, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by Peaches@Jul 6 2004, 12:21 PM
It's probably the same silence you'd hear if you asked "How many TGP owners have read this question". :awinky:
Yeah, that could be it... where do TGP owners hang out?

Vick

07-06-2004, 04:53 PM

Well my gift for the obvious allows me to state is seems we are at an impasse with our opinions - Very unlikely to change anyone else's
(and it is about opinions, not people - hopefully none of us have truly taken offense)

In parting please allow me to make this statement

If you like the TGP model so much -

what about opening a McDonald's in your neighborhood and giving free cheeseburgers to everyone who drives through, you might mention (in a soft voice) a Big Mac Meal can be bought

Then allow the very same people to drive through as many times as they like and everytime get a free cheeseburger and tell all their friends about the free cheeseburgers they get just for driving through (and a little ad for a Big Mac)

I have another idea in mind but will save it for another time

Peaches

07-06-2004, 05:00 PM

Originally posted by Vick@Jul 6 2004, 04:54 PM
what about opening a McDonald's in your neighborhood and giving free cheeseburgers to everyone who drives through, you might mention (in a soft voice) a Big Mac Meal can be bought

Then allow the very same people to drive through as many times as they like and everytime get a free cheeseburger and tell all their friends about the free cheeseburgers they get just for driving through (and a little ad for a Big Mac)

I have another idea in mind but will save it for another time
Why do you think McD's has a 99cent menu? It's so they get people to the store and hope they buy the higher priced items. Grocery stores advertise "loss leaders" in the paper almost every week. Again - "give away" something in the hopes the customer will buy more of the higher priced items that you have. Have you ever been to Costco on a Saturday? I could eat a full meal plus drink and dessert with the samples. Main stream has been doing this for years :okthumb:

07-06-2004, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by Vick@Jul 6 2004, 12:54 PM

If you like the TGP model so much -

what about opening a McDonald's in your neighborhood and giving free cheeseburgers to everyone who drives through, you might mention (in a soft voice) a Big Mac Meal can be bought

Then allow the very same people to drive through as many times as they like and everytime get a free cheeseburger and tell all their friends about the free cheeseburgers they get just for driving through (and a little ad for a Big Mac)

I have another idea in mind but will save it for another time
It's not that anyone likes it so much... its that people accept it as a fact of the adult business. I don't think anyone agrees with your assumptions that "No more TGP's" will make anyones business more profitable.. because you forget that all traffic has to come from somewhere and 1,000,000 million retards will shift their focus in 5 minutes to compete for that traffic creating the same issues and problems you percieve to exist with TGP's.

What you suggest with your McDonalds analogy ignores the simple fact that people make money from TGP traffic and TGP owners make money. No one is "giving everything away for free" - people are obviously paying and it continues to work, or the business model would either cease to exist or it would change dramatically. Just like a restaraunt does not give all it's food away for free, because it would fail.

Vick

07-06-2004, 05:05 PM

Peaches I think you're missing my point or we're looking at it differently

McD- .99 menu- money is paid (even if at a lost) and a limited amount is given

TGP - FREE - no money is paid and an almost unlimited amount is given

Like I said

Different strokes for different folks

Is the music industry in a slump? Could it be for 2 reasons - lack of exciting new product and almost unlimited free downloads of any music you could want

masterp74

07-06-2004, 05:14 PM

wow, when I scroll all the way down and see 7 or 8 big timer's looking at this exact thread, it scary.

:popcorn:

*KK*

07-06-2004, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by gonzo+Jul 6 2004, 12:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gonzo @ Jul 6 2004, 12:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Rolo@Jul 6 2004, 03:06 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-slavdogg@Jul 6 2004, 12:21 AM
So how many TGP owners have become millionares from TGPs only??
The silence is ear deafening :awinky:
I think Shemp is waiting for you to tell him which TGP your running. [/b][/quote]
Um, ok.

dantheman

07-06-2004, 06:50 PM

this thread just keeps getting better:) Shemp, I hope you stay around these parts, your adding good stuff to a already tasty gumbo.

I had a link list in 97 that I opened just to see how it worked, well I found out it was a lot of work, it did well till I got busy with other stuff(growing a baby hosting company) wish i would have stayed in but ohwell I did meet tommy(one of my best friends in this biz)Greenie and others whom have always been there to help me in anyway I needed.(THANK YOU ALL:)

Now I just started a TGP this summer to help push some traffic to a top secret(dont worry it'll get out:)proggy and some other "family" proggys. Do I wish I would have did one years ago, fuck yeah, but it's never to late to learn a new dance:)

again, thanks for a good thread, everyone here has strong opinons about things that are important to them and without that the gumbo would suck.
imho :)

edit to add, if anyone here wants to trade some traffic with my new baby let me know
www.picsnmovies.com

07-06-2004, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by the Shemp@Jul 4 2004, 02:05 PM
sites llike the HUN want all the surfers to come in, look around, click some links and come back again real soon...same with me, thats how we make our money.

i want a surfer to be able to come in and know that he wont be impeded or violated by unwanted downloads, dialers and console hells. i want him to be a happy guy, i want him to book mark me, i want him to have confidence in my site.
But most important, i want him in my stats, so i can sell some advertising :)
Shemp, Gonzo has some celeb galleries and a template I have designed for him to be used only on tgp's we like ...

I can't provide 100's of pics on a regular basis, but I can give you a good gallery now and then that surfers will return for ... and about a third of what I gave gonzo is exclusive studio stuff our photogs have shots of UK page 3 girls and glamour models.

Let me or Gonzo know if you have any ideas on how we can work together ;-)

Winetalk.com

07-06-2004, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by the Shemp@Jul 5 2004, 11:55 PM
.....trust me, i have nothing to prove to anyone on this board...
zic tranzit gloria mundi...
NEXT
;-)))

the Shemp

07-06-2004, 11:57 PM

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Jul 6 2004, 07:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Jul 6 2004, 07:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-the Shemp@Jul 5 2004, 11:55 PM
.....trust me, i have nothing to prove to anyone on this board...
zic tranzit gloria mundi...
NEXT
;-))) [/b][/quote]
apparently you can register on this board but you cant unregister..help me out please, Serge...thanks :)

Hell Puppy

07-07-2004, 12:38 AM

Amazing, but not surprising....

Oprano in general has a severe lack of TGP-knowledge. So ya bring in a top tier TGP player, and all around great guy, like Shemp to add a bit of TGP to the gumbo.

Do you open your mind, listen to the man, and try to understand why there's a TGP on every corner and almost every sponsor is churning out hosted galleries and free content to feed 'em?

No. You do nothing but ridicule TGP's and try to tell Shemp what's wrong with his business plan while many of you are struggling to find that next "thing" to grab onto to make a paycheck or cling to the hope that the industry will have a shake out and you're one of the ones left clinging to the tree.

If there was ever a doubt that Oprano was a niche or a clique, this thread pretty much just proved it. And hey, that's just fine, dont get me wrong. But I'm sad to see a good guy like Shemp run off. He really could've brought some new perspectives on the business. Something about old dogs and new tricks comes to mind I s'pose.

Mike AI

07-07-2004, 12:46 AM

Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Jul 6 2004, 11:39 PM
Amazing, but not surprising....

Oprano in general has a severe lack of TGP-knowledge. So ya bring in a top tier TGP player, and all around great guy, like Shemp to add a bit of TGP to the gumbo.

Do you open your mind, listen to the man, and try to understand why there's a TGP on every corner and almost every sponsor is churning out hosted galleries and free content to feed 'em?

No. You do nothing but ridicule TGP's and try to tell Shemp what's wrong with his business plan while many of you are struggling to find that next "thing" to grab onto to make a paycheck or cling to the hope that the industry will have a shake out and you're one of the ones left clinging to the tree.

If there was ever a doubt that Oprano was a niche or a clique, this thread pretty much just proved it. And hey, that's just fine, dont get me wrong. But I'm sad to see a good guy like Shemp run off. He really could've brought some new perspectives on the business. Something about old dogs and new tricks comes to mind I s'pose.

HP, other the Vick I did not read any posts that were negative about TGPs, or those who run them.

I was enjoying thread, and trying to learn. I have been in TGP for a short time and have a lot of catching up to do.

I think Oprano has all types, but I do agree that in general we are ignorant about TGPs and such..... I was amazed at how complex and sophisticated ( and crooked) it can be.

I think others here did the same.

It is sad that Shemp felt insulted, but Oprano is the no spin zone, and we recomend people leave their egos at the door.

If Shemp is merely looking to have his ass kissed, and smoke blown up his skirt then Oprano is not the place for him. There are many diverse opinions about everything here, and we don't have many asskissers.

Vick

07-07-2004, 01:03 AM

another thing not taken into account here is the law of diminishing returns

In this example it will only apply to the paysite advertiser and TGP relationship (who knows one day TGP'S may be able to have advertising for GM, Pepsi or what have you and tout their branding)

Somewhere in this thread I believe I read one of the goals of a TGP site was to get as many eyes as possible (hence the banning of galleries with certain counters and such) and that enabled the selling of advertising

What happens if due to the glut of free porn available from TGP sites no one buys porn anymore?

They can get it all for free, why buy it - been headed down that slope for a while
(there are other reasons beyond the glut of free pron)

What happens if advertisers stop buying due to poor ROI?

Hell Puppy

07-07-2004, 01:07 AM

Oh, I know, thin skin doesn't last long here, never has....likely never will.

And yeah, maybe it's just a very vocal handful, but if you go read thru the thread from the perspective of someone who is new and doesn't know the personalities here....it does come across as beligerent and close minded.

And my reasons for being a bit ticked are perhaps selfish because I consider many of the folx here at Oprano to be like-minded with myself overall and there are people here I know I can trust to do business with.

I'd like to see a few more of them in the TGP game, so there's more Opranaughts to trade traffic with, etc. I'm a little tired of killing 90% of the galleries submitted for toolbars and other bullshit, and killing 90% of the trades for either the same reason or for hitbotting. I've spent way too much time the past few weeks writing sql just to clean out the dirtbags...

Mike AI

07-07-2004, 01:12 AM

Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Jul 7 2004, 12:08 AM
Oh, I know, thin skin doesn't last long here, never has....likely never will.

And yeah, maybe it's just a very vocal handful, but if you go read thru the thread from the perspective of someone who is new and doesn't know the personalities here....it does come across as beligerent and close minded.

And my reasons for being a bit ticked are perhaps selfish because I consider many of the folx here at Oprano to be like-minded with myself overall and there are people here I know I can trust to do business with.

I'd like to see a few more of them in the TGP game, so there's more Opranaughts to trade traffic with, etc. I'm a little tired of killing 90% of the galleries submitted for toolbars and other bullshit, and killing 90% of the trades for either the same reason or for hitbotting. I've spent way too much time the past few weeks writing sql just to clean out the dirtbags...

Hell Puppy I am with you.

Gonzo worked hard to get Shemp here. I was happy when he came over, but you cannot make people fee a certain way based on individuals posts.

Vick

07-07-2004, 01:13 AM

HP - I'm the prime opponent of TGP's - there is no way anyone can ever convince me a TGP is a good business model
(but we're stuck with them just the same)

If something I've posted ran Shemp off (and I also posted it was nothing personal - just business and in his welcome post here said while I have not yet had the pleasure of meeting him I have heard good things about him)

I apologize, but ...... I speak my mind

and maybe if someone chooses not to post anymore because of this discussion they may be a little on the thin skinned side

It's an exchange of ideas - right wrong different indifferent or whatever

Hell Puppy

07-07-2004, 01:19 AM

Originally posted by Vick@Jul 7 2004, 12:04 AM
another thing not taken into account here is the law of diminishing returns

In this example it will only apply to the paysite advertiser and TGP relationship (who knows one day TGP'S may be able to have advertising for GM, Pepsi or what have you and tout their branding)

Somewhere in this thread I believe I read one of the goals of a TGP site was to get as many eyes as possible (hence the banning of galleries with certain counters and such) and that enabled the selling of advertising

What happens if due to the glut of free porn available from TGP sites no one buys porn anymore?

They can get it all for free, why buy it - been headed down that slope for a while
(there are other reasons beyond the glut of free pron)

What happens if advertisers stop buying due to poor ROI?
Vick,

In a way, I'd say we're already there. If you're just selling the same old still photosets that have been licensed to every major paysite, you aren't going to convert for shit, especially with TGP traffic.

Here's a little TGP 101... If you want to convert, you need to have at least one of the following:

--Videos, large high quality videos

--Top notch exclusive content, which YOU control, so you regulate how much of it is released. If you have a total hottie for a solo girl site, dont give away pussy shots.

--Niche, niche and niche

Mike AI

07-07-2004, 01:22 AM

Originally posted by Hell Puppy+Jul 7 2004, 12:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Hell Puppy @ Jul 7 2004, 12:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Vick@Jul 7 2004, 12:04 AM
another thing not taken into account here is the law of diminishing returns

In this example it will only apply to the paysite advertiser and TGP relationship (who knows one day TGP'S may be able to have advertising for GM, Pepsi or what have you and tout their branding)

Somewhere in this thread I believe I read one of the goals of a TGP site was to get as many eyes as possible (hence the banning of galleries with certain counters and such) and that enabled the selling of advertising

What happens if due to the glut of free porn available from TGP sites no one buys porn anymore?

They can get it all for free, why buy it - been headed down that slope for a while
(there are other reasons beyond the glut of free pron)

What happens if advertisers stop buying due to poor ROI?
Vick,

In a way, I'd say we're already there. If you're just selling the same old still photosets that have been licensed to every major paysite, you aren't going to convert for shit, especially with TGP traffic.

Here's a little TGP 101... If you want to convert, you need to have at least one of the following:

--Videos, large high quality videos

--Top notch exclusive content, which YOU control, so you regulate how much of it is released. If you have a total hottie for a solo girl site, dont give away pussy shots.

--Niche, niche and niche [/b][/quote]
One reason so much fresh content is being shot now is due to TGPs. To convert and do well custom content is the way to go. How many people were shooting custom content 2-4-6 years ago?

Hell Puppy

07-07-2004, 01:41 AM

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 7 2004, 12:23 AM

One reason so much fresh content is being shot now is due to TGPs. To convert and do well custom content is the way to go. How many people were shooting custom content 2-4-6 years ago?
Bandwidth is a big part of that too. 1.5 mbps at the house is pretty much the norm for would-be customers. The guy still too cheap to buy cable/dsl and suffering at 56K sure as hell wont pay to join a porn site. Many areas have 3 mbps or better....

You can surf an awful lot of porn at those speeds. This is also what's driving video.

In 97 when we were all on modems for the most part, if you decide you want to rub one out, it would take 15-20 minutes to sample 5-6 good free sites or link sites just due to load times. Now, you can burn thru hundreds of pages or galleries in the same time looking for just the right content that does it for you....you dont settle just because you're tired of surfing.

The best content wins....but the paysite owners themselves should make sure they only release enough to tease. The TGP owner only has enough time to basically make sure the gallery is clean and isn't going to piss off his surfers. If the pics look good, the vast majority do not care whether you opt to give away nothing more than side of breasts and ass shots or whether you show double penetration. That's up to the submitter and how he wants to market his gallery.

Winetalk.com

07-07-2004, 06:48 AM

Originally posted by the Shemp+Jul 6 2004, 10:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (the Shemp @ Jul 6 2004, 10:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Jul 6 2004, 07:47 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-the Shemp@Jul 5 2004, 11:55 PM
.....trust me, i have nothing to prove to anyone on this board...
zic tranzit gloria mundi...
NEXT
;-)))
apparently you can register on this board but you cant unregister..help me out please, Serge...thanks :) [/b][/quote]
did you understand what I said or are you guessing?

I can unregister you,
but I wanna make sure that you understand what you are doing and won't soil my reputation later with unfounded aqusations,
therefore, if you really mean it,
paypal me $50 at serge@oprano.com and I'll do it.

If you can't afford $50, I'll take $25, but I won't remove your e-mail from d/b

now make your move and be the man behind your word.

07-07-2004, 08:01 AM

I don't like tgp's as a rule ... but over the last few months i've learned enough to realize that I don't like tgp's because there are too many, not because the business model doesn't work.

I think there should be 1 tgp for every 500 paysites instead of the opposite it seems to be now ....
1-15 photos per paysite as 'sample' pics ...

I was just starting to learn something about your business model Shemp, so I for one am sorry to see you go.

I think 'thin skinned' is more like 'couldn't be fucked wasting the energy to explain something to deaf ears'.

HP said it best, there are enough tgp's doing extremely well that it always pays to listen ... ya just never know what you will learn about your own business when you see it through another webmasters eyes.

Rolo

07-07-2004, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 6 2004, 08:47 PM
HP, other the Vick I did not read any posts that were negative about TGPs, or those who run them.

I was enjoying thread, and trying to learn. I have been in TGP for a short time and have a lot of catching up to do.
I agree - I had looked forward hearing some good arguments on why and how... didn´t really read any negativ attack post, I read opinions, questions, knowledge and ideas - nothing anyone has to defend against.

But since most of us are already having or starting TGPs, then I´m sure this topic will still be hot - and I do not think the knowledge on Oprano is TGP newbie, most of us understand it, but since many of us also know paysites etc., then we have a better chance of making a good or even better TGP business model, than most TGPs started by newbíes. Marketing skills take time to master - it doesn´t make you are guru by giving free content... giving free content away, and make a killing in the process, thats something only people who understand the business can do, and I find the possiblity that someone like that is/will be reading Oprano very high.

From a paysite point of view, then I see great opportunities, from a TGP point of view, then I see lots of opportunities - we just need to work on connecting the dots between the paysites and tgps, and then both will prosper :okthumb:

Rolo

07-07-2004, 09:38 AM

We have been trying some different models - from exit chain to inside members areas etc. with different layout on the tgps depending on their purpose ex. inside the member areas, it was designed more as a channel/section of the paysite, so members didn´t see them as free, but something they bought access too - on exit chains we had more traditonal tgp and thumb tgp layouts, also low converting countries were filtered off to other purposed than to make them bookmark. All places had hosted galleries from sponsors with good "turn on" content (nothing ultra hardcore) - coversions were very good. We are still experimenting on both generating traffic, and on optimizing the bookmarks we receive, and feel that we will in time have build a new income source, keep traffic longer and will have something to trade with other paysite partners once they get started :)

How will you get traffic to your TGPs?

Bishop

07-07-2004, 09:47 AM

It took me 2 days to read this thread.. and I have finally reached the end.. good read. Ahh.. if I had only left my Shaven Ferret script running on auto approve all those years ago..

MissMinaBBW

07-07-2004, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by Rolo@Jul 4 2004, 05:29 AM
I just wish TGP guys were just as hard when it came to free hardcore content:

I agree 100%

Winetalk.com

07-07-2004, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by MissMinaBBW+Jul 7 2004, 10:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MissMinaBBW @ Jul 7 2004, 10:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Rolo@Jul 4 2004, 05:29 AM
I just wish TGP guys were just as hard when it came to free hardcore content:

I agree 100% [/b][/quote]
and I don't. TGP guys, like the most of you here
ARE IN IT FOR MONEY,
not saving industry problems.

I've seen people making GOOD COIN in this business,
I haven't seen ONE who can honestly claim:
"I've solved industry problem"
;-))

Rolo

07-07-2004, 11:40 AM

Did not mean they should do it to get goodwill, but because it makes business sense - just as removing galleries/sites with hidden autodownloads...

TGPs can price themself as hookers - some hookers cost $1 other cost more than $1.000.000 - I´m sure that the one dollar hookers get customers, but that doesn´t mean they will ever be rich, and sooner or later they will be so used and infected with all kinds of things, that customers would want to get paid to fuck them.
TGPs do not need to cater to freeloaders - use focus on those that bring in sales, and stop loosing sleep over some 3rd world surfer who might not show up in the stats, because he can not get off on the TGP, since the only english word he understand is FREE.

Vick

07-07-2004, 04:17 PM

Something else that wasn't touched on here is perceived value

If you give away for FREE (and push the FREE part) say 50,000 pics

then those pics have no value
If they had value why would they be free?

the former buyers become conditioned to receiving everything for free

- even if the gallery builders feel their gallery is just a tease or come on.
There are 200 more galleries right where the surfer still is

masterp74

07-07-2004, 08:01 PM

Another 140 replied 1000, views+ thread from Masterp74. My 3rd career one BTW :matey:

Mike AI

07-07-2004, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by masterp74@Jul 7 2004, 07:02 PM
Another 140 replied 1000, views+ thread from Masterp74. My 3rd career one BTW :matey:
Be careful to not pull you arm of it the socket when patting yourself on the back!

:lol:

:P

masterp74

07-07-2004, 09:06 PM

Originally posted by Mike AI+Jul 7 2004, 04:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike AI @ Jul 7 2004, 04:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-masterp74@Jul 7 2004, 07:02 PM
Another 140 replied 1000, views+ thread from Masterp74. My 3rd career one BTW :matey:
Be careful to not pull you arm of it the socket when patting yourself on the back!

:lol:

:P [/b][/quote]
I know MikeAI. I'm just making sure this is put into the history books 100 years from now B)

Mike AI

07-07-2004, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by masterp74+Jul 7 2004, 08:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (masterp74 @ Jul 7 2004, 08:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 7 2004, 04:26 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-masterp74@Jul 7 2004, 07:02 PM
Another 140 replied 1000, views+ thread from Masterp74. My 3rd career one BTW :matey:
Be careful to not pull you arm of it the socket when patting yourself on the back!

:lol:

:P
I know MikeAI. I'm just making sure this is put into the history books 100 years from now B) [/b][/quote]
Let Luke know!

07-07-2004, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by masterp74@Jul 7 2004, 07:02 PM
Another 140 replied 1000, views+ thread from Masterp74. My 3rd career one BTW :matey:
:barfon:

You really added a lot to the thread, MasterP

masterp74

07-08-2004, 12:19 AM

Originally posted by KC+Jul 7 2004, 07:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (KC @ Jul 7 2004, 07:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-masterp74@Jul 7 2004, 07:02 PM
Another 140 replied 1000, views+ thread from Masterp74. My 3rd career one BTW :matey:
:barfon:

You really added a lot to the thread, MasterP [/b][/quote]
at least I didn't add a dialer :ph34r:

07-08-2004, 02:48 AM

do you seriously have a line in your tag that says '13th all time poster at oprano'??!!??!

:unsure:

*KK*

07-08-2004, 03:24 AM

Originally posted by masterp74@Jul 7 2004, 04:02 PM
Another 140 replied 1000, views+ thread from Masterp74. My 3rd career one BTW :matey:
Hahahhaaha who picked your tagline?

07-08-2004, 04:52 AM

Originally posted by masterp74+Jul 7 2004, 11:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (masterp74 @ Jul 7 2004, 11:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by KC@Jul 7 2004, 07:47 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-masterp74@Jul 7 2004, 07:02 PM
Another 140 replied 1000, views+ thread from Masterp74. My 3rd career one BTW :matey:
:barfon:

You really added a lot to the thread, MasterP
at least I didn't add a dialer :ph34r: [/b][/quote]
Maybe you should try it... You might make some money :nyanya:

BTW, as a tribute to you, I've placed your 13th top poster status in my sig as well. I know how proud you are.

Winetalk.com

07-08-2004, 06:22 AM

Originally posted by KC+Jul 8 2004, 03:53 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (KC @ Jul 8 2004, 03:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by masterp74@Jul 7 2004, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by KC@Jul 7 2004, 07:47 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-masterp74@Jul 7 2004, 07:02 PM
Another 140 replied 1000, views+ thread from Masterp74. My 3rd career one BTW :matey:
:barfon:

You really added a lot to the thread, MasterP
at least I didn't add a dialer :ph34r:
Maybe you should try it... You might make some money :nyanya:

BTW, as a tribute to you, I've placed your 13th top poster status in my sig as well. I know how proud you are. [/b][/quote]
KC, maybe you should sell cheao laced software,
I spammed with offeres every day,
you'd make even more
;-)))

the Shemp

07-08-2004, 07:26 AM

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Jul 7 2004, 02:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Jul 7 2004, 02:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by the Shemp@Jul 6 2004, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Jul 6 2004, 07:47 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-the Shemp@Jul 5 2004, 11:55 PM
.....trust me, i have nothing to prove to anyone on this board...
zic tranzit gloria mundi...
NEXT
;-)))
apparently you can register on this board but you cant unregister..help me out please, Serge...thanks :)
did you understand what I said or are you guessing?

I can unregister you,
but I wanna make sure that you understand what you are doing and won't soil my reputation later with unfounded aqusations,
therefore, if you really mean it,
paypal me $50 at serge@oprano.com and I'll do it.

If you can't afford $50, I'll take $25, but I won't remove your e-mail from d/b

now make your move and be the man behind your word. [/b][/quote]
someone emailed me about the 50.00, i wasnt aware of it, as i hadnt been following the thread..

just sent it to you... regards...shemp

Winetalk.com

07-08-2004, 07:55 AM

holy shit,
I've been outclassed,
Shemp, congrats, it doesn't happen very often.

I refuse to accept your resignation and humbly ask you to reconsider.

please.

Cleo

07-08-2004, 08:36 AM

I finally find a thread on Oprana that I find interesting and informative and you all drive away the most relative poster.

Guess it is back to armchair politics and slapping your dicks on the table.
http://www.foxy-angel.com/a/nfretti.jpg

Winetalk.com

07-08-2004, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by Cleo@Jul 8 2004, 07:37 AM

Guess it is back to armchair politics and slapping your dicks on the table.

don't you wish you had one?
;-)))

your right.

Rolo

07-08-2004, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by Cleo@Jul 8 2004, 04:37 AM
I finally find a thread on Oprana that I find interesting and informative and you all drive away the most relative poster.
I´m still confused to how we drived anyone away - I didn´t see a lynch mob in this thread, and there were some constructive posts? :blink:

What do you think was the turning point in this thread (Shemp you are welcome to answer this too) - I´m really interested :)

gonzo

07-08-2004, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by Rolo+Jul 8 2004, 08:03 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rolo @ Jul 8 2004, 08:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Cleo@Jul 8 2004, 04:37 AM
I finally find a thread on Oprana that I find interesting and informative and you all drive away the most relative poster.
I´m still confused to how we drived anyone away - I didn´t see a lynch mob in this thread, and there were some constructive posts? :blink:

What do you think was the turning point in this thread (Shemp you are welcome to answer this too) - I´m really interested :) [/b][/quote]
Ill answer this one.

I have been working with Shemp since Vegas to fit Oprano into his board runs and offer some traffic/TGP advice. Even though hes a busy man and batteling off an illness and the treatments that go with it....he agreed. Thats the kind of guy he is...hes a friend first and as witnessed above a class act.

I figured it was a great fit.

Everyone here needs traffic and Shemp has made his mark by defining the TGP market with AL4A. Not only that but hes done it with pure integrity. He understands the TGP surfer, how you need to treat em and most importantly how you profit from them.

I figured everyone would be highly interested in tapping into this market at some level and help the TGP market evolve by doing. What happened is self evident. I didnt foresee that yall wouldnt be interested in redeveloping new market but instead would want to debate the morality and ethics of TGPs.

Thats was the intent. You see the results.

Its really a fucking shame too. If nothing else I would have liked to at least been able to partner PornMo with my Oprano brethern for traffic trades and gallery submissions.

The Management, Serge, Mike and I had a lot of things in development that we were going to bring to the resource in conjunction with this. But it became evident that several of your arent interested.

Thanks Shemp for giving a friend some help when you were asked. Its something I wont forget.

masterp74

07-08-2004, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by KC+Jul 8 2004, 12:53 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (KC @ Jul 8 2004, 12:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by masterp74@Jul 7 2004, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by KC@Jul 7 2004, 07:47 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-masterp74@Jul 7 2004, 07:02 PM
Another 140 replied 1000, views+ thread from Masterp74. My 3rd career one BTW :matey:
:barfon:

You really added a lot to the thread, MasterP
at least I didn't add a dialer :ph34r:
Maybe you should try it... You might make some money :nyanya:

BTW, as a tribute to you, I've placed your 13th top poster status in my sig as well. I know how proud you are. [/b][/quote]
why thanks KC. can you make about 100 posts a day here now?

dantheman

07-08-2004, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by gonzo+Jul 8 2004, 09:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gonzo @ Jul 8 2004, 09:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Rolo@Jul 8 2004, 08:03 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Cleo@Jul 8 2004, 04:37 AM
I finally find a thread on Oprana that I find interesting and informative and you all drive away the most relative poster.
I´m still confused to how we drived anyone away - I didn´t see a lynch mob in this thread, and there were some constructive posts? :blink:

What do you think was the turning point in this thread (Shemp you are welcome to answer this too) - I´m really interested :)
Ill answer this one.

I have been working with Shemp since Vegas to fit Oprano into his board runs and offer some traffic/TGP advice. Even though hes a busy man and batteling off an illness and the treatments that go with it....he agreed. Thats the kind of guy he is...hes a friend first and as witnessed above a class act.

I figured it was a great fit.

Everyone here needs traffic and Shemp has made his mark by defining the TGP market with AL4A. Not only that but hes done it with pure integrity. He understands the TGP surfer, how you need to treat em and most importantly how you profit from them.

I figured everyone would be highly interested in tapping into this market at some level and help the TGP market evolve by doing. What happened is self evident. I didnt foresee that yall wouldnt be interested in redeveloping new market but instead would want to debate the morality and ethics of TGPs.

Thats was the intent. You see the results.

Its really a fucking shame too. If nothing else I would have liked to at least been able to partner PornMo with my Oprano brethern for traffic trades and gallery submissions.

The Management, Serge, Mike and I had a lot of things in development that we were going to bring to the resource in conjunction with this. But it became evident that several of your arent interested.

Thanks Shemp for giving a friend some help when you were asked. Its something I wont forget. [/b][/quote]
good post bro

Mike AI

07-08-2004, 12:38 PM

Cleo he might have been most relevant poster for a traffic whore who has to make her living pandering for links from people.

I have never met Shemp, but he seems to be a fair and honest guy. Some people just do not have the will to deal with criticism - fair or unfair.

Oprano has never been a place for asskissing, we call it the no spin zone for a reason. As Serge says, if you can make it at Oprano, you can make it anywhere. Some people are not up for a challenge.

The sun does not rise or fall based on Shemp.... He is just another small cog in this whole industry.

Rolo

07-08-2004, 12:43 PM

Gonzo, thanks for the input - this was prehaps the thing I didn´t see... that Shemp was proud of being a TGP owner, and took it personal when we spoke about the problems and benefits of TGPs?

I didn´t really see any negative trend in the debate, I saw the debate more as an "eye opener" and "exchange of toughts" (we do not debate TGPs every day, so alot have been build up) - there were no personal attacks, nothing which ultimate said TGPs owners go away - and that is the thing, because most of us (even Vick) are working with or are thinking about starting with TGPs (either as owners or galleries).

I read it more constructive, as the first seeds to be planted in an area, which hopefully will get more attention on Oprano... the most constructive threads on boards are the once where people agree that they disagree, and then try to prove that their toughts/ideas/concepts etc. works in more than theory (we saw that in areas like payout etc.).

We can´t really control anyone with what we post on boards (ok, maybe on some boards and with some board persons, hehehe...), however we can make a difference in the way they perceive things. My toughts about TGPs is that they should be like business, but that doesn´t mean that everyone else will agree with that, but hopefully someone will and share their ideas or prehaps they will prove too me, that its not possible to run a TGP like a business. Either way then I might leave the debate with more than I came with.

And thats one of the things I like about Oprano - maybe to someone who just dropped by, then we look like a cloned community, however I see alot of difference between personalities, who can make insightful arguments, and make construtive debates. This is not another board, where the "post count" counts, and ass kissing is turning into ass rimming...

For those who will still be here to talk about TGP business, then I wil be looking forward to the many debates, and exchanges of ideas we will have in the future :)

Nickatilynx

07-08-2004, 12:47 PM

Mike AI Posted on Jul 8 2004, 08:39 AM

Cleo he might have been most relevant poster for a traffic whore who has to make her living pandering for links from people.

I have never met Shemp, but he seems to be a fair and honest guy. Some people just do not have the will to deal with criticism - fair or unfair.

Oprano has never been a place for asskissing, we call it the no spin zone for a reason. As Serge says, if you can make it at Oprano, you can make it anywhere. Some people are not up for a challenge.

The sun does not rise or fall based on Shemp.... He is just another small cog in this whole industry.

Mike , I hate to say it but I agree with you 100%.

I did not think the criticism was that marked anyways.

I am so fucking glad I no longer have a board and do not have to worry about these dramas anymore. ;-))))))

I used to get 2am calls commencing "Have you read the board?...."

Because someone had taken affront from someone and had spat the dummy.

;-)))

Vick

07-08-2004, 01:48 PM

Since no one will say it I will

I'm the villain, I chased Shemp away (again this is all business/board bullshit and has nothing to do with anyone or anything personally)

How did I do it? By raising points, asking questions, voicing discontent, not being satisfied with the statue quo, poking into what I consider to be a terrible business model, posting numbers - nothing personal, only business

What happened to Oprano - more Ideas than a Think Tank?
That doesn't happen with just one side of any issue

I don't want to go back to the past, I want to move into the future and consider ways in increase profits

Many seem to want to suck the TGP tit, fine that's on you but what happens when that tit goes dry? It's drying up now and many keep trying to suck it. Obviously from my point of view it's one of the worst business models ever in any business - read through this entire thread - I've stated the whys over and over

Many say it's what is going on in the industry, sorry you feel content to accept that

I really wish many in this business had balls to innovate and not follow the crowd.

An all text link site would be beautiful (I have one), let the sponsors do what they do best, sell and convert and affiliates move the traffic.

Afraid to lose the bookmarkers you get from 50,000 free pics a day? - do you think they really buy or just waste time, efforts and bandwidth. Have some balls and find out, get rid of the freeloaders.

TGP is at the point of diminishing returns, you're going to keep getting less on your returns so one day you'll have to do something else - now is a great time to start
Cut down your time spent and do other profitable things!

I have no remorse over anything I posted here, I do feel bad that Gonzo put effort on getting a poster here (of some renown) who felt they needed to leave when their business model was challenged
Maybe someone should have posted treat with kid gloves, allow to post anything without questioning, suck up and treat like a demagogue (ok I'm overstating the issue here)

In closing the immortal words of Axl Rose
"You get nothing for nothing if that's what you do"

or
"Can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen"

Rolo

07-08-2004, 05:50 PM

Vick I think you have raised some good points, and I read your posts as something useful - a different perspective, while I do not agree with all of the conclusions (ex. that it will be the end of the industry), then I do agree with your opinion about which direction we have been going with the TGP model.
I also agree with Shemp´s view on mass produced hosted galleries, and with his remark about too much being free/easy for the average webmasters to start new TGPs. However we can not make either go away, but we can try and change them to the better. If we look at TGPs from a business view instead of an emotional view, then we can improve many areas at tgps, paysites and affiliates - these are the areas I would like to discuss... if we do nothing, then change will still come, however question is, if we want to be a part of it. I would like to be part of it - would you?

*KK*

07-08-2004, 07:28 PM

Oh my, all this because this masterp guy tried to take a stab at KC?

Rolo

07-08-2004, 08:23 PM

KK, masterp might have thrown a stone at KC, but accendently it landed into the think tank, and soon it caused rings in the water, which were headed away from the original point without looking back... maybe the next time we do not need to throw stones into the think tank to cause movement, prehaps we just need someone to make a belly flop into the tank with her/his thoughts/ideas/concepts :awinky:

*KK*

07-08-2004, 08:45 PM

Originally posted by Rolo@Jul 8 2004, 04:24 PM
KK, masterp might have thrown a stone at KC, but accendently it landed into the think tank, and soon it caused rings in the water, which were headed away from the original point without looking back... maybe the next time we do not need to throw stones into the think tank to cause movement, prehaps we just need someone to make a belly flop into the tank with her/his thoughts/ideas/concepts :awinky:
It appears the bellyflop contest had a casualty this time already.

07-08-2004, 08:50 PM

Originally posted by Vick@Jul 8 2004, 12:49 PM
Obviously from my point of view it's one of the worst business models ever in any business - read through this entire thread - I've stated the whys over and over
Vick, yes I noticed you posted your point over and over and over and over .... and you are still posting it over and over and over ... how many of the responses did you actually read and accept as someone else's valid opinion without trying to prove your point over and over again? You were hell bent on proving a point which was patronizing, insulting and assumed that shemp is a moron who just hasn't figured out you are right yet.

We all know how you feel about tgp's because we've all shared the same thoughts at 1 time or another ... but one of the princes of this industry was just brought into this community so that perhaps we could learn to understand HOW we can work an overall industry change for the future. If anyone can do it its the webmasters at this board combined with a bit of outside knowledge.

But sometimes it disgusts me how closed minded the old timers have become. "My Way or the Highway" ... its a real shame.

Shemp has a successful tgp. Gonzo put in a lot of work to make a plan for the future.

But thanks to a few who were so hell bent on proving their point to themselves, we no longer have a tgp expert.

Why should a successful person need to prove themselves to any one of us? Nobody here has anything to offer shemp he doesn't already have, but the same doesn't apply in reverse.

Mike, your attitude surprises me most. Of all the people who should have their ears open more often than their mouth in shemp's presence, its purecash. But you must know all about tgp's already ...

*shaking head*

I'm still shocked by this thread ... i really thought when it came down to it we were mature and intelligent enough to open our minds long enough to hear someone else's opinion.

I guess not.

Rolo

07-08-2004, 08:56 PM

Originally posted by *KK*@Jul 8 2004, 04:46 PM
It appears the bellyflop contest had a casualty this time already.
yeah, thick skin helps, when doing bellyflops :)

Rolo

07-08-2004, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by cj@Jul 8 2004, 04:51 PM
I'm still shocked by this thread ... i really thought when it came down to it we were mature and intelligent enough to open our minds long enough to hear someone else's opinion.

I guess not.
I actual feel the opposite - like I posted earlier, than I didn´t see a negative trend in the debate... I saw questions, which might have needed more than a "one line answer" - this might have been overwhelming for one person who also have other things to take care of, and throwing in the white towel was the fast way out of a possible long exchange of thoughts.

There were no personal attacks (well beside the masterp/KC exchange), and I think its fair for Shemp to decide his time is better used elsewhere. But that doesn´t mean that the TGP subject is now dead at Oprano - it just means we need to move on - maybe Shemp will return, when he has more time.

In the meantime the TGP experience on Oprano is not newbie, so CJ do not panic - we should able to put 2+2 together ;-) (I actual think Shemp already gave 90% of all the wisdom behide present TGPs in one of his first posts).

masterp74

07-08-2004, 11:47 PM

Originally posted by *KK*@Jul 8 2004, 03:29 PM
Oh my, all this because this masterp guy tried to take a stab at KC?
KK, you know more than well 2 months ago. KC went over to J----B---M and accused me of having spywareon my poker shit. Guess what, I didn't have any. So Fuck him for trying to ruin my name. . He took the first stab at me. I am showing him by having this thread, karma is a bitch :matey:

Plus, The title of the thread is true and it came from a very powerful voice in this industry. Patrick from the hun.

07-09-2004, 01:48 AM

Originally posted by Rolo+Jul 8 2004, 08:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rolo @ Jul 8 2004, 08:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-cj@Jul 8 2004, 04:51 PM
I'm still shocked by this thread ... i really thought when it came down to it we were mature and intelligent enough to open our minds long enough to hear someone else's opinion.

I guess not.
I actual feel the opposite - like I posted earlier, than I didn´t see a negative trend in the debate... I saw questions, which might have needed more than a "one line answer" - this might have been overwhelming for one person who also have other things to take care of, and throwing in the white towel was the fast way out of a possible long exchange of thoughts.

There were no personal attacks (well beside the masterp/KC exchange), and I think its fair for Shemp to decide his time is better used elsewhere. But that doesn´t mean that the TGP subject is now dead at Oprano - it just means we need to move on - maybe Shemp will return, when he has more time.

In the meantime the TGP experience on Oprano is not newbie, so CJ do not panic - we should able to put 2+2 together ;-) (I actual think Shemp already gave 90% of all the wisdom behide present TGPs in one of his first posts). [/b][/quote]
so repeatedly telling someone their business model doesn't work and is the downfall of the industry is not negative?

ok, silly me.

carry on!

Vick

07-09-2004, 02:07 AM

Originally posted by cj+Jul 8 2004, 07:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (cj @ Jul 8 2004, 07:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Vick@Jul 8 2004, 12:49 PM
Obviously from my point of view it's one of the worst business models ever in any business - read through this entire thread - I've stated the whys over and over
Vick, yes I noticed you posted your point over and over and over and over .... and you are still posting it over and over and over ... how many of the responses did you actually read and accept as someone else's valid opinion without trying to prove your point over and over again? You were hell bent on proving a point which was patronizing, insulting and assumed that shemp is a moron who just hasn't figured out you are right yet.

We all know how you feel about tgp's because we've all shared the same thoughts at 1 time or another ... but one of the princes of this industry was just brought into this community so that perhaps we could learn to understand HOW we can work an overall industry change for the future. If anyone can do it its the webmasters at this board combined with a bit of outside knowledge.

But sometimes it disgusts me how closed minded the old timers have become. "My Way or the Highway" ... its a real shame.

Shemp has a successful tgp. Gonzo put in a lot of work to make a plan for the future.

But thanks to a few who were so hell bent on proving their point to themselves, we no longer have a tgp expert.

Why should a successful person need to prove themselves to any one of us? Nobody here has anything to offer shemp he doesn't already have, but the same doesn't apply in reverse.

Mike, your attitude surprises me most. Of all the people who should have their ears open more often than their mouth in shemp's presence, its purecash. But you must know all about tgp's already ...

*shaking head*

I'm still shocked by this thread ... i really thought when it came down to it we were mature and intelligent enough to open our minds long enough to hear someone else's opinion.

I guess not. [/b][/quote]
CJ - this is another time we have difference of opinion :inlove:

Different strokes for different folks

and so on and so on and scoobie doobie doobie

and a shit sandwich is always going to be a shit sandwich no matter how you dress it up

Oh and I don't think that anyone who does over $300,000 per year is a moron (my lowball good guestmate), I may think more could be earned though - by everyone

Vick

07-09-2004, 02:10 AM

Originally posted by cj+Jul 9 2004, 12:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (cj @ Jul 9 2004, 12:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Rolo@Jul 8 2004, 08:34 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-cj@Jul 8 2004, 04:51 PM
I'm still shocked by this thread ... i really thought when it came down to it we were mature and intelligent enough to open our minds long enough to hear someone else's opinion.

I guess not.
I actual feel the opposite - like I posted earlier, than I didn´t see a negative trend in the debate... I saw questions, which might have needed more than a "one line answer" - this might have been overwhelming for one person who also have other things to take care of, and throwing in the white towel was the fast way out of a possible long exchange of thoughts.

There were no personal attacks (well beside the masterp/KC exchange), and I think its fair for Shemp to decide his time is better used elsewhere. But that doesn´t mean that the TGP subject is now dead at Oprano - it just means we need to move on - maybe Shemp will return, when he has more time.

In the meantime the TGP experience on Oprano is not newbie, so CJ do not panic - we should able to put 2+2 together ;-) (I actual think Shemp already gave 90% of all the wisdom behide present TGPs in one of his first posts).
so repeatedly telling someone their business model doesn't work and is the downfall of the industry is not negative?

ok, silly me.

carry on! [/b][/quote]
I never said it didn't work

I did say it may be hitting the point of diminishing returns and it is one of the worst business models I've ever seen anywhere (very short sighted, but if you can earn your millions and get out, more power to you)

I still love ya C.Jayne :inlove: :awinky:

07-09-2004, 02:15 AM

what if you earn millions and ...... keep earning millions? you made an uneducated assumption.

you can't fix the problem from outside in Vick ...

and i still luv u too :inlove:

Rolo

07-09-2004, 02:36 AM

Originally posted by cj@Jul 8 2004, 09:49 PM
so repeatedly telling someone their business model doesn't work and is the downfall of the industry is not negative?
If we were talking about recurrings, xsales, mailings, traffic country filtering etc. all those things paysites do to make money, which many webmasters find a harm to the industry, then I wouldn´t take it personal, if someone told me that those things were a negative to the industry. If I disagreed with the comments then I would say so, if they gave good comment/views/ideas etc. then I would listen. There is no correct way to run a business - its always changing, and the way you find out is when income/profits drops, however there are usual warning signs before this happens - one of them being comments/ideas/concepts from others, so it often pays to listen.

You could try and convince me that my person was the downfall of the industry, and then I might take it personal, however saying that the way business is done will be the downfall, well thats just business - nothing personal.

I have seen too many people loose part of their personality, because their business failed in which they had invested so much of themself... all business will eventual fail - everything is on time.. what you got today, could be gone in 1 year, so do not take it personal in business - it will only end up hurting more than its worth.

07-09-2004, 03:21 AM

Originally posted by masterp74+Jul 8 2004, 10:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (masterp74 @ Jul 8 2004, 10:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-*KK*@Jul 8 2004, 03:29 PM
Oh my, all this because this masterp guy tried to take a stab at KC?
KK, you know more than well 2 months ago. KC went over to J----B---M and accused me of having spywareon my poker shit. Guess what, I didn't have any. So Fuck him for trying to ruin my name. . He took the first stab at me. I am showing him by having this thread, karma is a bitch :matey:

Plus, The title of the thread is true and it came from a very powerful voice in this industry. Patrick from the hun.[/b][/quote]
Actually, I asked you if there was any truth to the thread at 2+2. Thanks for reminding me about that issue. So any updates on that??

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthre...=5&o=14&fpart=1 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=625236&page=5&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1)

I also questioned your judgement about infringing on the World Poker Tour's trademarks and copyrights. I see you took half of my advice and came up with an original logo.

On at least 3 seperate occasions you've told me you've moved on... Yet you continue to come back and take new stabs at me.

In this thread you call the Hun " very powerful voice in this industry"... but on the SAME DAY you post in a GFY thread titled "thehun sucks for sales (but we already knew that)" and you said:

jesus, over 200k hits to the gallery and 5000 hits to the site....and 2 fucking sales

the gallery was nice (it matched the layout of the actual site)

whatever...LOL

that's 2 more sales than I got. be happy not greedy

Maybe you should spend more time trying to get a sale and less time flapping your gums? Just a suggestion! :wacko:

Vick

07-09-2004, 04:33 AM

CJ, Rolo
You have a very good point about working from the inside
Thanks :)

*KK*

07-09-2004, 08:16 AM

Originally posted by masterp74+Jul 8 2004, 07:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (masterp74 @ Jul 8 2004, 07:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-*KK*@Jul 8 2004, 03:29 PM
Oh my, all this because this masterp guy tried to take a stab at KC?
KK, you know more than well 2 months ago. KC went over to J----B---M and accused me of having spywareon my poker shit. Guess what, I didn't have any. So Fuck him for trying to ruin my name. . He took the first stab at me. I am showing him by having this thread, karma is a bitch

Plus, The title of the thread is true and it came from a very powerful voice in this industry. Patrick from the hun. [/b][/quote]
Haha, Patrick isn't from the Hun, he IS the Hun.

I'd be careful counting my karma before it hatched in some situations. I've known KC for a long time, one day less than I've known MikeAI as a matter of fact, and he's been a good friend and a good person to do business with over the years.

masterp74

07-09-2004, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by KC+Jul 8 2004, 11:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (KC @ Jul 8 2004, 11:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by masterp74@Jul 8 2004, 10:48 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-*KK*@Jul 8 2004, 03:29 PM
Oh my, all this because this masterp guy tried to take a stab at KC?
KK, you know more than well 2 months ago. KC went over to J----B---M and accused me of having spywareon my poker shit. Guess what, I didn't have any. So Fuck him for trying to ruin my name. . He took the first stab at me. I am showing him by having this thread, karma is a bitch :matey:

Plus, The title of the thread is true and it came from a very powerful voice in this industry. Patrick from the hun.
Actually, I asked you if there was any truth to the thread at 2+2. Thanks for reminding me about that issue. So any updates on that??

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthre...=5&o=14&fpart=1 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=625236&page=5&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1)

I also questioned your judgement about infringing on the World Poker Tour's trademarks and copyrights. I see you took half of my advice and came up with an original logo.

On at least 3 seperate occasions you've told me you've moved on... Yet you continue to come back and take new stabs at me.

In this thread you call the Hun " very powerful voice in this industry"... but on the SAME DAY you post in a GFY thread titled "thehun sucks for sales (but we already knew that)" and you said:

jesus, over 200k hits to the gallery and 5000 hits to the site....and 2 fucking sales

the gallery was nice (it matched the layout of the actual site)

whatever...LOL

that's 2 more sales than I got. be happy not greedy

Maybe you should spend more time trying to get a sale and less time flapping your gums? Just a suggestion! :wacko: [/b][/quote]
Yo dickhead, I posted about havving no sales at all.(not at the hun) are you really that stupid? I think not.

masterp74

07-09-2004, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by *KK*+Jul 9 2004, 04:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (*KK* @ Jul 9 2004, 04:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by masterp74@Jul 8 2004, 07:48 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-*KK*@Jul 8 2004, 03:29 PM
Oh my, all this because this masterp guy tried to take a stab at KC?
KK, you know more than well 2 months ago. KC went over to J----B---M and accused me of having spywareon my poker shit. Guess what, I didn't have any. So Fuck him for trying to ruin my name. . He took the first stab at me. I am showing him by having this thread, karma is a bitch

Plus, The title of the thread is true and it came from a very powerful voice in this industry. Patrick from the hun.
Haha, Patrick isn't from the Hun, he IS the Hun.

I'd be careful counting my karma before it hatched in some situations. I've known KC for a long time, one day less than I've known MikeAI as a matter of fact, and he's been a good friend and a good person to do business with over the years. [/b][/quote]
good for you KK, to me he is a bitch and I don't need bitches in my life.

07-09-2004, 07:13 PM

Masterp74: 13th All Time Poster at Oprano.com

at least KC has done something, built something and has a name in the biz. what do you do besides being the "13th all time poster on oprano".

I don't think you should be allowed in the room when the grown ups are talking.

Mike AI

07-09-2004, 07:20 PM

I consider KC to be a great friend, and a wonderful business person.

I am fortunate to have friends like KC!

gonzo

07-09-2004, 08:54 PM

This thread is a major train wreck. Everytime I look at it I am disgusted on several levels.

masterp74

07-09-2004, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by gonzo@Jul 9 2004, 04:55 PM
This thread is a major train wreck. Everytime I look at it I am disgusted on several levels.
I'm not gonzo. I'm about to hit the 200 replied mark. Only a few elite have done that here at oprano.com

07-09-2004, 09:26 PM

Originally posted by masterp74@Jul 9 2004, 05:21 PM
Only a few elite have done that here at oprano.com
and only a few morons think that it means something.

grow up. shut up. read. listen and learn.

07-09-2004, 10:03 PM

Thats a bit harsh JR!!

Are you saying Confucy and Brad are not an elite group to be a part of?!?!!?!

200 REPLIES!!!!!!!!! Thats the meaning of life right there!!!

masterp74

07-09-2004, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by cj@Jul 9 2004, 06:04 PM
Thats a bit harsh JR!!

Are you saying Confucy and Brad are not an elite group to be a part of?!?!!?!

200 REPLIES!!!!!!!!! Thats the meaning of life right there!!!
that's for helping CJ. don't forget it's going to be a 2000 views thread as well(without any pics in it.) :okthumb:

07-09-2004, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by masterp74+Jul 9 2004, 06:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (masterp74 @ Jul 9 2004, 06:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-cj@Jul 9 2004, 06:04 PM
Thats a bit harsh JR!!

Are you saying Confucy and Brad are not an elite group to be a part of?!?!!?!

200 REPLIES!!!!!!!!! Thats the meaning of life right there!!!
that's for helping CJ. don't forget it's going to be a 2000 views thread as well(without any pics in it.) :okthumb: [/b][/quote]
congratulations.

i think you won a 96' Camaro

07-10-2004, 01:32 AM

Originally posted by JR+Jul 9 2004, 09:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JR @ Jul 9 2004, 09:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by masterp74@Jul 9 2004, 06:18 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-cj@Jul 9 2004, 06:04 PM
Thats a bit harsh JR!!

Are you saying Confucy and Brad are not an elite group to be a part of?!?!!?!

200 REPLIES!!!!!!!!! Thats the meaning of life right there!!!
that's for helping CJ. don't forget it's going to be a 2000 views thread as well(without any pics in it.) :okthumb:
congratulations.

i think you won a 96' Camaro [/b][/quote]
Actually, it takes 3000 views to get the '96... 2000 only wins an '86 Camero covered with Bondo and primer!

07-10-2004, 01:34 AM

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 9 2004, 06:21 PM
I consider KC to be a great friend, and a wonderful business person.

I am fortunate to have friends like KC!
:agrin:

Thanks mike... You and Katie are great friends too. :)

Nickatilynx

07-10-2004, 01:53 AM

mho...

as the crooked bastard of Oprano.

Serge , do not make people join your own vendetta. (but I will) they may be yr friend..,....
Brad...you are a gutless dickless peice of shit who is fortunate to have classy people on yr side.
MasterP...you are nothing...until you accept you are the peon you are...fuck you...

Greenguy , I count as a friend...class all the way...fuck you, maserp, He has been a guest in my house and was a perfect gentlemen.

KC...(I met him once ...class he added MEAT to my soup)...class guy...you , masterp do not have the right to swell the wind from his ass

Masterp , you pick fights with people who you are not worthy to even mention...fuck you...beeeeeeyatch!!!!!!

In vino veritas....

fucking absinthe.... ;-))))

Serge , as an old friend...masterp is the biggest cunt in christendom...lose him!!!!

..ok wheres the green fairy.....

;-))))

I am a crook...but I am.......

well , masterp , I take solace in the fact...

I am not you...

fuck off...

Hell Puppy

07-10-2004, 01:55 AM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jul 10 2004, 12:54 AM
mho...

as the crooked bastard of Oprano.

Serge , do not make people join your own vendetta. (but I will) they may be yr friend..,....
Brad...you are a gutless dickless peice of shit who is fortunate to have classy people on yr side.
MasterP...you are nothing...until you accept you are the peon you are...fuck you...

Greenguy , I count as a friend...class all the way...fuck you, maserp, He has been a guest in my house and was a perfect gentlemen.

KC...(I met him once ...class he added MEAT to my soup)...class guy...you , masterp do not have the right to swell the wind from his ass

Masterp , you pick fights with people who you are not worthy to even mention...fuck you...beeeeeeyatch!!!!!!

In vino veritas....

fucking absinthe.... ;-))))

Serge , as an old friend...masterp is the biggest cunt in christendom...lose him!!!!

..ok wheres the green fairy.....

;-))))

I am a crook...but I am.......

well , masterp , I take solace in the fact...

I am not you...

fuck off...

now THAT is how you do a drunken rant folx!

:wnw:

gonzo

07-10-2004, 02:09 AM

If you think thats something you should hear Nick on the radio LIVE!

Nickatilynx

07-10-2004, 02:24 AM

Originally posted by gonzo@Jul 9 2004, 10:10 PM
If you think thats something you should hear Nick on the radio LIVE!
ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.....

all I did was tell the truth .....

;-))))

My future drunken rants on radio will be exclusively for Oprano radio LOL

But seriously......

wtf is headless's claim to fame?

Oh yeah someone at Netpond radio hired him LOL

(hic)

Winetalk.com

07-10-2004, 03:17 AM

Nick,
that was one of the best posts I read from you in a while,
the sincerity of it went 11 on the Richter scale
;-))))

07-10-2004, 03:44 AM

I *think* what Nick just said was fuck off masterP?!

LMAO

:wnw:

Nickatilynx

07-10-2004, 04:11 AM

Originally posted by cj@Jul 9 2004, 11:45 PM
I *think* what Nick just said was fuck off masterP?!

LMAO

:wnw:
cj,

You are correct :)

Masterp IMHO is a terd on the toilet bowl of Oprano that needs to be flushed. :)

Winetalk.com

07-10-2004, 04:14 AM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Jul 10 2004, 03:12 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Jul 10 2004, 03:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-cj@Jul 9 2004, 11:45 PM
I *think* what Nick just said was fuck off masterP?!

LMAO

:wnw:
cj,

You are correct :)

Masterp IMHO is a terd on the toilet bowl of Oprano that needs to be flushed. :) [/b][/quote]
why? he doesn't bother anybody....

Nickatilynx

07-10-2004, 04:23 AM

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Jul 10 2004, 12:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Jul 10 2004, 12:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jul 10 2004, 03:12 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-cj@Jul 9 2004, 11:45 PM
I *think* what Nick just said was fuck off masterP?!

LMAO

:wnw:
cj,

You are correct :)

Masterp IMHO is a terd on the toilet bowl of Oprano that needs to be flushed. :)
why? he doesn't bother anybody.... [/b][/quote]
precisely ;-)))))))

masterp74

07-10-2004, 04:36 AM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Jul 10 2004, 12:12 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Jul 10 2004, 12:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-cj@Jul 9 2004, 11:45 PM
I *think* what Nick just said was fuck off masterP?!

LMAO

:wnw:
cj,

You are correct :)

Masterp IMHO is a terd on the toilet bowl of Oprano that needs to be flushed. :) [/b][/quote]
I'll leave anyday Serge wants me too. but for you. I guess you'll always be a scammer

Winetalk.com

07-10-2004, 04:39 AM

Originally posted by masterp74@Jul 10 2004, 03:37 AM

I'll leave anyday Serge wants me too.
I am glad somebody realises that Oprano is NOT a "Democracy"

;-))))

Winetalk.com

07-10-2004, 04:41 AM

Originally posted by masterp74@Jul 10 2004, 03:37 AM
I guess you'll always be a scammer
don't be jelous. if you had 10% of Nick's abilities to think outside the box,
you'd be taking $100k a day by now
;-))

masterp74

07-10-2004, 04:45 AM

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Jul 10 2004, 12:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Jul 10 2004, 12:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-masterp74@Jul 10 2004, 03:37 AM
I guess you'll always be a scammer
don't be jelous. if you had 10% of Nick's abilities to think outside the box,
you'd be taking $100k a day by now
;-)) [/b][/quote]
true, I have nothing against Mick. I only fight with people who have took a poke at me first

Nickatilynx

07-10-2004, 04:46 AM

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Jul 10 2004, 12:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Jul 10 2004, 12:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-masterp74@Jul 10 2004, 03:37 AM

I'll leave anyday Serge wants me too.
I am glad somebody realises that Oprano is NOT a "Democracy"

;-)))) [/b][/quote]
FUCK!!!!

by arguing in favour of his removal , I may...MAY have gained him 5 more weeks.

Masterp ,

You caught on to the next big craze...online poker...before any of us...and what have you done with it?

Nothing.

ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I'll try a different tack...

quit , you useless fuck.Why wait til you are fired?

You came to this board and you have gained the respect and admiration of?

masterp74

07-10-2004, 04:48 AM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Jul 10 2004, 12:47 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Jul 10 2004, 12:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Jul 10 2004, 12:40 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-masterp74@Jul 10 2004, 03:37 AM

I'll leave anyday Serge wants me too.
I am glad somebody realises that Oprano is NOT a "Democracy"

;-))))
FUCK!!!!

by arguing in favour of his removal , I may...MAY have gained him 5 more weeks.

Masterp ,

You caught on to the next big craze...online poker...before any of us...and what have you done with it?

Nothing.

ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I'll try a different tack...

quit , you useless fuck.Why wait til you are fired?

You came to this board and you have gained the respect and admiration of? [/b][/quote]
patience is key my email friend.

I have patience. just watch and take another shot

Nickatilynx

07-10-2004, 04:50 AM

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Jul 10 2004, 12:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Jul 10 2004, 12:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-masterp74@Jul 10 2004, 03:37 AM

I'll leave anyday Serge wants me too.
I am glad somebody realises that Oprano is NOT a "Democracy"

;-)))) [/b][/quote]
You picked on...

Greenguy
KC

using the tenious clout of being on Oprano staff...

thats your only claim to fame.

fame is fleeting...

quit.

Your poker board gets less visits than the Baghdad Hilton does from tour groups looking for a peaceful holiday

Nickatilynx

07-10-2004, 04:52 AM

Originally posted by masterp74+Jul 10 2004, 12:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (masterp74 @ Jul 10 2004, 12:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jul 10 2004, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Jul 10 2004, 12:40 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-masterp74@Jul 10 2004, 03:37 AM

I'll leave anyday Serge wants me too.
I am glad somebody realises that Oprano is NOT a "Democracy"

;-))))
FUCK!!!!

by arguing in favour of his removal , I may...MAY have gained him 5 more weeks.

Masterp ,

You caught on to the next big craze...online poker...before any of us...and what have you done with it?

Nothing.

ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I'll try a different tack...

quit , you useless fuck.Why wait til you are fired?

You came to this board and you have gained the respect and admiration of?
patience is key my email friend.

I have patience. just watch and take another shot [/b][/quote]
patience???????.

You patiently waiting to one day earn $100 in a day from this business?

Tell you what....fuck off never post again and I'll paypal it to you.

13th biggest poster...

ahahahahahahahahahaha

You fucking lamer ....

Winetalk.com

07-10-2004, 04:52 AM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jul 10 2004, 03:47 AM

quit , you useless fuck.Why wait til you are fired?

Nick,
I have to quote Scarface...

"The only person who can give orders is the boss"

He can't be fired, as he is not employed
;-))))

masterp74

07-10-2004, 04:53 AM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Jul 10 2004, 12:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Jul 10 2004, 12:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Jul 10 2004, 12:40 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-masterp74@Jul 10 2004, 03:37 AM

I'll leave anyday Serge wants me too.
I am glad somebody realises that Oprano is NOT a "Democracy"

;-))))
You picked on...

Greenguy
KC

using the tenious clout of being on Oprano staff...

thats your only claim to fame.

fame is fleeting...

quit.

Your poker board gets less visits than the Baghdad Hilton does from tour groups looking for a peaceful holiday [/b][/quote]
ypo're right. that's about to change. catch iit in my next 200replied thread coming this week. Fick

Winetalk.com

07-10-2004, 04:54 AM

Originally posted by masterp74@Jul 10 2004, 03:49 AM

patience is key my email friend.

I have patience. just watch and take another shot
patience????

oh puuhleeze!

that's one of the lamest excuses I ever heard, I bet you picked it up from weasel
;-)))

masterp74

07-10-2004, 04:56 AM

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Jul 10 2004, 12:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Jul 10 2004, 12:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-masterp74@Jul 10 2004, 03:49 AM

patience is key my email friend.

I have patience. just watch and take another shot
patience????

oh puuhleeze!

that's one of the lamest excuses I ever heard, I bet you picked it up from weasel
;-))) [/b][/quote]
ok, I'm a fuck up

Winetalk.com

07-10-2004, 04:56 AM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jul 10 2004, 03:53 AM

patience???????.

You patiently waiting to one day earn $100 in a day from this business?

You fucking lamer ....
JINX!
;-))))

Nickatilynx

07-10-2004, 04:57 AM

ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

You are soooooo proud of having a 200 reply thread!!!!!!!

ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I mean....do you have no idea how fucking lame that is???????????????

ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

sorry you are not worth my time

ahahahahahahahahhahahahaha

classic.....

ahahahahahahahahahahahaha

"look at me , 13th biggest poster and a 200 reply thread"

ahahahahahahahahahahahaha

dickhead.....

masterp74

07-10-2004, 04:58 AM

I'll be in 12th if you keep posting

Nickatilynx

07-10-2004, 04:59 AM

Originally posted by masterp74+Jul 10 2004, 12:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (masterp74 @ Jul 10 2004, 12:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Jul 10 2004, 12:55 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-masterp74@Jul 10 2004, 03:49 AM

patience is key my email friend.

I have patience. just watch and take another shot
patience????

oh puuhleeze!

that's one of the lamest excuses I ever heard, I bet you picked it up from weasel
;-)))
ok, I'm a fuck up [/b][/quote]
Nooooooo

A fuck up requires some effort to achieve something.

You are lower than that

ahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha

masterp74

07-10-2004, 04:59 AM

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Jul 10 2004, 12:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Jul 10 2004, 12:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Jul 10 2004, 03:53 AM

patience???????.

You patiently waiting to one day earn $100 in a day from this business?

You fucking lamer ....
JINX!
;-)))) [/b][/quote]
if you want to go just say so. I can take it.

Winetalk.com

07-10-2004, 05:00 AM

one of my best threads had only 1 response today
http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/index.php?showtopic=12762
but I am very proud of it anyway!
;_)))

Nickatilynx

07-10-2004, 05:01 AM

I just recieved an icq that said....

"Stop , stop , he's already dead"

So I shall....

ahahahahahahahahahah

Winetalk.com

07-10-2004, 05:03 AM

Originally posted by masterp74+Jul 10 2004, 04:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (masterp74 @ Jul 10 2004, 04:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Jul 10 2004, 12:57 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Jul 10 2004, 03:53 AM

patience???????.

You patiently waiting to one day earn $100 in a day from this business?

You fucking lamer ....
JINX!
;-))))
if you want to go just say so. I can take it. [/b][/quote]
I do not.....you don't bother me one bit and I NEVER been a populist
;-)))

Winetalk.com

07-10-2004, 05:04 AM

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jul 10 2004, 04:02 AM
I just recieved an icq that said....

"Stop , stop , he's already dead"

So I shall....

ahahahahahahahahahah
not from me.....you had hard on for him since the day one,
c'mon, Nick,
"Give peace a chance"
;-)))

Nickatilynx

07-10-2004, 05:12 AM

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Jul 10 2004, 01:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Jul 10 2004, 01:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Nickatilynx@Jul 10 2004, 04:02 AM
I just recieved an icq that said....

"Stop , stop , he's already dead"

So I shall....

ahahahahahahahahahah
not from me.....you had hard on for him since the day one,
c'mon, Nick,
"Give peace a chance"
;-))) [/b][/quote]
the quality of mercy is not strained; It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven Upon the place beneath. It is twice blessed- It blesseth him that gives, and him that takes.

Good night :)