Do you think TGPs serve a useful purpose...

[gonzo]

Please choose one of the above statements that best fits your viewpoint of TGPs in todays online adult market. Add your replies to this tread to back them up.

[spazlabz]

All viable adult traffic comes thru TGPs.

yeah teah, this was me, I chose that particular option, then scolded Gonzo for not providing me with two other options. They would be;

1) TGP still serves a useful purpose although with not as high an impact as days gone by
&
2) What does TGP, FPA, HPA, HFS, HFG mean anyway? Help me, I am from GFY.

those two options were notably NOT on this poll (Or I would have voted for what does TGP/../ Mean anyway, because I wanna know!! :yowsa: )

spaz :matey:

[Bishop]

Not true - All viable adult traffic comes thru TGPs.
Not true - TGP traffic does not covert.
Close to the truth - TGPs are the adult search engines of the future.
Yes and then No - TGPs give away too much free porn and kills paysites.
Not true - There is no money to be made with TGPs
Does not apply - All I run are TGP sites and I make bank.

TGP traffic does convert but its not the greatest conversion.
Yes they give away to much content but take a look at who is buying the ad space on the sites... those are paysites. Paysites can make money on TGPs.

Do I wish TGP had never come into existance? Yep. Do I think they will ever go away? Nope. What would I have prefered to see in their place? Picpost. One pic at a time with a banner on the top and bottom and the pic is a link to the join form. haha.. Seriously I wish free content had never been made so accessible to the surfers but in many ways I think it has made them connoisseurs of the product. They have seen so much of it they have very specific taste and will pay to see exactly what they want.

[Jim]

As long as program owners continue to facilitate the growth of TGP's by giving them more and more to promote their sites they will continue to get bigger....

it seems no programs make banners or 1/2 page ads anymore....all they promote is:
3000 new galleries or "check out our new hosted content"

imho it is the program owner that are shooting themselves n the foot in the race to get more of the tgp traffic.....

but longsightedness(sp?) has never been one of this industrys virtues...

[Bishop]

If the paysites content is basically pics then they are killing themselves.. the big tgps have as much content as some of the member sites and its free. If the site is based around video then tgp's are less of a threat. The tgp/mpgs will give you 7, 15, maybe even 30 second videos but the paysites and pay per views will let you watch the entire movie. AEBN does very well with the TGP/MGP sites.

The future is video so we still have a chance to save ourselves. Keep the clips fairly short and let the surfer see the value in watching the entire movie or any portion of any movie.

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Bishop@Jun 24 2004, 08:47 AM
Not true - All viable adult traffic comes thru TGPs.
Not true - TGP traffic does not covert.
Close to the truth - TGPs are the adult search engines of the future.
Yes and then No - TGPs give away too much free porn and kills paysites.
Not true - There is no money to be made with TGPs
Does not apply - All I run are TGP sites and I make bank.

TGP traffic does convert but its not the greatest conversion.
Yes they give away to much content but take a look at who is buying the ad space on the sites... those are paysites. Paysites can make money on TGPs.

Do I wish TGP had never come into existance? Yep. Do I think they will ever go away? Nope. What would I have prefered to see in their place? Picpost. One pic at a time with a banner on the top and bottom and the pic is a link to the join form. haha.. Seriously I wish free content had never been made so accessible to the surfers but in many ways I think it has made them connoisseurs of the product. They have seen so much of it they have very specific taste and will pay to see exactly what they want.
What he said :)

[Jim]

The tgp/mpgs will give you 7, 15, maybe even 30 second videos

i see video galleries every day with at least 4 15-30 sec videos from the same shoot...
even showing the money shot....all you need is a video joiner and you are good.....

After all....when is the last time you sat through an ENTIRE porn film?

[Bishop]

Originally posted by Jim@Jun 24 2004, 08:34 AM
The tgp/mpgs will give you 7, 15, maybe even 30 second videos

i see video galleries every day with at least 4 15-30 sec videos from the same shoot...
even showing the money shot....all you need is a video joiner and you are good.....

After all....when is the last time you sat through an ENTIRE porn film?

I doubt most surfers know what a video joiner is... as far as watching an entire movie you are correct that it really never happens. Most consumers take 6-7 minutes to get off. Prior to those 6-7 minutes they often skim through several movies before finding the scene that does it for them. Either way the tgps are hear to stay. Like em, love em, hate em.. they have become a fixture.

[Trev]

Originally posted by Bishop+Jun 24 2004, 02:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Bishop @ Jun 24 2004, 02:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Jim@Jun 24 2004, 08:34 AM
The tgp/mpgs will give you 7, 15, maybe even 30 second videos

i see video galleries every day with at least 4 15-30 sec videos from the same shoot...
even showing the money shot....all you need is a video joiner and you are good.....

After all....when is the last time you sat through an ENTIRE porn film?

I doubt most surfers know what a video joiner is... as far as watching an entire movie you are correct that it really never happens. Most consumers take 6-7 minutes to get off. Prior to those 6-7 minutes they often skim through several movies before finding the scene that does it for them. Either way the tgps are hear to stay. Like em, love em, hate em.. they have become a fixture. [/b][/quote]
6-7 minutes... 6-7 minutes!?!?

I can get myself off and do me a couple hardboiled eggs in 4 :unsure:

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by Trev+Jun 24 2004, 06:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Trev @ Jun 24 2004, 06:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Bishop@Jun 24 2004, 02:59 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Jim@Jun 24 2004, 08:34 AM
The tgp/mpgs will give you 7, 15, maybe even 30 second videos

i see video galleries every day with at least 4 15-30 sec videos from the same shoot...
even showing the money shot....all you need is a video joiner and you are good.....

After all....when is the last time you sat through an ENTIRE porn film?

I doubt most surfers know what a video joiner is... as far as watching an entire movie you are correct that it really never happens. Most consumers take 6-7 minutes to get off. Prior to those 6-7 minutes they often skim through several movies before finding the scene that does it for them. Either way the tgps are hear to stay. Like em, love em, hate em.. they have become a fixture.
6-7 minutes... 6-7 minutes!?!?

I can get myself off and do me a couple hardboiled eggs in 4 :unsure: [/b][/quote]
:okthumb:

ahahahahahah me too!!! lol

[spazlabz]

Originally posted by Jim@Jun 24 2004, 05:34 AM
The tgp/mpgs will give you 7, 15, maybe even 30 second videos

i see video galleries every day with at least 4 15-30 sec videos from the same shoot...
even showing the money shot....all you need is a video joiner and you are good.....

After all....when is the last time you sat through an ENTIRE porn film?
Exactly!! This is why I am changing the way I do mpg gallery clips now for all of Extreme Paycheck's (http://www.extremepaychecks.com) sites. Example. I got a video in to edit this week and it is kick ass video. Really good stuff, real innocent type girl who is gonna swallow her first load.
Normally I have a formula
1 clip from the interview
2 clips from the action
1 clip of the money shot

but i have been cutting out the money shot now and leaving it as a teaser. So they will WANT to see the end of the video instead of already knowing how it ends. I modified how I do the trailers now as well. all in all 4 12 second clips for a hosted gallery will hopefully peak their interest without sending them over the edge.

I am hopeful that this is the method I should stick with for our affiliates to make some bank off of both TGPs and MGPs


spaz :matey:

[Rolo]

Originally posted by Bishop@Jun 24 2004, 05:59 AM
Either way the tgps are hear to stay. Like em, love em, hate em.. they have become a fixture.
Yes, they are a fact of business, and I do see some positive in that, since more business people will start optimizing them for profit, and not like in the old days for counter wanking :wankit:

Ofcourse there is always those who will give 15 mins movies (yes, I have seen MGPs promoting FREE 15 mins uncut movies), but these will not be the people who will drive away in Ferraris... even if bandwidth costed ZERO, then you will still have to make $ to be rich... you can not be rich by having ZERO cost and ZERO income - it just leaves you with a ZERO in your bankaccount (and probably also in life).

Sure TGPs/MGPs can always hope to sell hookers, and drugs instead of Porn, but we are not even at that point yet, so why throw money away, so TGPs/MGPs can see the counter grow with 10,20,30% - belive me, those 10,20,30% are not the ones who are or will be buying the hookers and drugs from the TGPs/MGPs... The 10,20,30% are the same people who in real life, would take your drugs, fuck your girlfriend, and drive away in your Ferrari.. fuck´em and see your business prosper :cool2:

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by Peaches+Jun 24 2004, 08:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Peaches @ Jun 24 2004, 08:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Bishop@Jun 24 2004, 08:47 AM
Not true - All viable adult traffic comes thru TGPs.
Not true - TGP traffic does not covert.
Close to the truth - TGPs are the adult search engines of the future.
Yes and then No - TGPs give away too much free porn and kills paysites.
Not true - There is no money to be made with TGPs
Does not apply - All I run are TGP sites and I make bank.

TGP traffic does convert but its not the greatest conversion.
Yes they give away to much content but take a look at who is buying the ad space on the sites... those are paysites. Paysites can make money on TGPs.

Do I wish TGP had never come into existance? Yep. Do I think they will ever go away? Nope. What would I have prefered to see in their place? Picpost. One pic at a time with a banner on the top and bottom and the pic is a link to the join form. haha.. Seriously I wish free content had never been made so accessible to the surfers but in many ways I think it has made them connoisseurs of the product. They have seen so much of it they have very specific taste and will pay to see exactly what they want.
What he said :) [/b][/quote]
What she said he said! :blink: :huh:

[Vick]

Originally posted by Trev@Jun 24 2004, 09:02 AM
I can get myself off and do me a couple hardboiled eggs in 4 :unsure:
How can you get it up that quickly again for hardboiled eggs? :P

[gonzo]

Thank, you all for the participation. We are going somewhere with this.

[Jim]

Really good stuff, real innocent type girl who is gonna swallow her first load

hmmm.....how do you know it is her first load?


:D

[kath]

Originally posted by Jim@Jun 24 2004, 11:17 AM
Really good stuff, real innocent type girl who is gonna swallow her first load

hmmm.....how do you know it is her first load?


:D
What... you don't trust the content girl? lol :rolleyes:

My opinion has changed somewhat on TGPs over the years... I used to think that they were all just too much free content and hurt paysites, but I think that there are a lot of people out there who do it wrong, and a few people who are doing it right (like everyone else). So it's kind of a don't-hate-the-player-hate-the-game kind of thing. TGPs aren't the evil downfall of the industry - the evil TGP guys that push the envelope and oversaturate the net with too much HARDCORE free content are.

:awinky:

[Vick]

Let me make it easy for you, I'll answer the question with a question

Would we all make more $ if TGP'S didn't exist?



For the most part TGP owners and submitters don't know bumpkis about marketing and care more about counter numbers than $ numbers

That being said I'll admit a certain grudging admiration for TGP owners who knowing their traffic doesn't convert moved to the business model of selling spots to generate revenue

What I've always wondered about that is when will the collapse happen, guess not as long as there are new suckers to buy the traffic

[seeker]

So what do people suggest are the best to go with.
I am learning

[Mike AI]

The reality is there is no way of getting around TGPS. If you are in the business, you will have to do something with TGPs.

I think they have hurt the industry, but it is a fact of life, so we must all deal with it.

[Rolo]

Beside more business people getting their hands on TGPs/MGPs and turning them into a real business, then I think more sponsors should run TGPs/MGPs, and use them as promotion/trade between sponsors. Between the big TGPs/MGPs and sponsors alot of the small TGPs/MGPs would die off, which would leave business people at the wheel of the TGP/MPG scene, where it might be possible to agree on some common ground, because of business relationships, which involve more than just TGPs/MGPs... ofcourse this would also lead to the number of affiliates in the business getting smaller, which might not be a bad thing from a sponsor point of view :unsure:

[Vick]

Most (if not all TGP's) will never be a real business as the model shows a decided lack of business acumen

Giving away thousands of free pics turning former paying customers into bandwidth sucking leeches (and supporting underage porn surfers) just looking for free pics with the mentality of "why should pay when it's all free"

I get a kick out of the "you must have 15 or more pics that must be this size" demands of some TGP's.

Even with a very unique product and excellent presentation it's still a poor model. It offers way more than the needed tease

3-5 small pics are enough for a tease, remember one of the most profitable adult sites ever NEVER HAD ONE IMAGE ON IT!!! (porno.com)


I can't wait until the day the majority of the adult on line industry collapses

[Rolo]

Vick, I agree, if we could do it all over again, then we should have slamed every content stealing TGP with major lawsuites, when it began, however we did not, and today they have grown to a point, where they can survive at their own hands.

We need to think how we can stop or slow down the free content give away... I think hosted galleries was the first step, because now sponsors are working direct with the TGPs/MGPs, which means that TGPs/MGPs accept more at the galleries, because they get paid - ex. I see more and better ads on hosted galleries vs. old submited galleries...

Next step will be getting focus on the content, ex. don´t give the cumshot/moneyshot away (there is a reason its called the moneyshot), stop over usage of single video, different videos with shorter play time is better (average user only spend minutes per day on porn sites, not hours, so 1-5 mins of video on a single gallery is a big % of his daily need... make him visit 10 galleries instead of 1 to get the same amount of playtime = 10 * ads + videos will be too short for him to get into "the zone" ;-))

If the TGPs/MGPs do not like this, then I think many sponsors will be ready to accept the modified version of an old saying:

"If you can´t join them - beat them" ;-))

[Hell Puppy]

As with just about everything else in the industry, there's a right and wrong way to do it. And there will always be idiots who do not understand the numbers or psychology behind it, do it wrong and wonder why they aren't making any money.

I try to preach the same thing to anyone who is building a site, especially if they want to trade some traffic with me. I dont care whether you're building TGP galleries, submitting to picposts, building free sites, AVS sites, whatever... You need to design it to upsell to paysites.

TGP Galleries or MGP galleries should basically be glorified FPAs or mini-tours.

Why do you think sponsors give away hosted galleries? Are they just donating content to the surfers and TGP webmasters? No, of course not. They know how to market their own sites, so they're producing galleries that market them well and removing the TGP submitter from the mix and going straight to the TGP webmaster.

And yes, it would be nice if there were less free porn on the web. But it aint gonna happen. And yes, there are some TGP owners that are morons and wont accept a gallery that someone might actually make a buck off of. But most of the people I see here really screaming about TGPs obviously have never run one or haven't done so lately. The power of traffic management and sponsor promo in the latest software out there is VERY impressive. And unless you think random blind links are friendly, they definitely dont coddle the surfer....

[Rolo]

Like Hell Puppy said, then sponsors can do alot to change things, and educate affiliates and business partners.

Ex. if offering free content to affiliates, so they can build their own galleries, then cut out the moneyshot, and tell them why its not there (might push them in a direction where they start to sell, instead of giving it away).
If the sponsor have free hosting, then limited the file size, again tell them why (most free videos are in mpg format, so ex. a 1mb or less max size will mean either a short video in normal quality, or a long video with bad quality - MGPs would probably prefer good quality). Also might be a good idea to make people qualify to get access to the sponsor content, which will cut down the number of affiliates who can use the content.

I´m sure most sponsors are already aware, so the task should be to communicate it to the TGPs/MGPs/Affiliates who are still living in the dark age of the TGP. There are more which can be done, and we do not all have to agree to some official rules to change the market, we just need it to be part of how we do business, and then it will come naturally. Cause and effect :)