Ronald Reagan dead at 93

[Rolo]

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06...alth/index.html (http://edition.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/05/reagan.health/index.html)

[Winetalk.com]

RIP,
Reagn is one of my favorit Presidents of all time....

[pushpills]

93 is one long life.

reagon seemed like a pretty good guy. i wonder if the casket will be billed to the gov. as 300 grand though.

[Peaches]

I know this will come across as heartless, but in his condition, this is a blessing. For him and especially for Nancy.

RIP. :cryin:

[sextoyking]

RIP Gipper

[Sharpie]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Jun 5 2004, 04:17 PM
RIP,
Reagn is one of my favorit Presidents of all time....

After IKE (which most of you know little about his presidency) Reagan 'had it all.......... if nothing else - GREAT RESPECT.

[Carrie]

"They counted on America to be passive.
They counted WRONG."

Rest in peace, Gipper. You were a true gentleman and one of the best Presidents this country has ever seen. May you finally have peace.
*tips hat*

[Winetalk.com]

for me Reagan will ALWAYS be associated with his address to Gorbachev:
"Mr President, time to tear up the wall"

[Dravyk]

He was an interesting man. I liked the person and persona.

I even respect that of many presidents he was able to get his agendas accomplished.

It's just a shame that most of his initiatives he rammed through -- ketchup as a school vegetable, Secretary of the Interior Watt trying to sell national parks to oil companies, the trickle down effect of giving massive breaks soley to the very very rich, and a few thousand other "wonderful memories" -- were very damaging and lacking in both compassion and smarts.

So while I dispised his politics. The man will be missed.

[Carrie]

Serge, I know how you love proper quotes...

"General Secretary Gorbachev, if you seek peace, if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, if you seek liberalization: Come here to this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"

I remember that speech; man was it powerful.

[Mike AI]

I saw late last night on Drudge that he was doing poorly.

Reagan is one of the top 5 Presidents of all time. He was President during my formative years, he is what I think of as THE President.

RIP

[Almighty Colin]

"How do you tell a Communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin." - Ronald Reagan

[aeon]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Jun 5 2004, 02:42 PM
for me Reagan will ALWAYS be associated with his address to Gorbachev:
"Mr President, time to tear up the wall"
"Mr. Gobachev, tear down this wall."
Most powerful words to be said in the past 2 decades and probably for many more to come :salute:

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Carrie@Jun 5 2004, 06:16 PM
Serge, I know how you love proper quotes...

"General Secretary Gorbachev, if you seek peace, if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, if you seek liberalization: Come here to this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"

I remember that speech; man was it powerful.
Carrie, thanks for bringing up the original,
I was quoting from my memory

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by aeon+Jun 5 2004, 06:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (aeon @ Jun 5 2004, 06:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Serge_Oprano@Jun 5 2004, 02:42 PM
for me Reagan will ALWAYS be associated with his address to Gorbachev:
"Mr President, time to tear up the wall"
"Mr. Gobachev, tear down this wall."
Most powerful words to be said in the past 2 decades and probably for many more to come :salute:[/b][/quote]
yeap.......look what it has done to our economy alone!

[Joe Sixpack]

If there's a hell, Reagan is just checking in.

:nyanya:

[aeon]

I just saw them carrying pickets that said "make love, not war. They looked like they couldn't do either" - Ronald Reagan.

I love to see hippies die...it's like watching a virus be destroyed or a rat exterminated. One less potential infectious agent.

When Abbie Hoffman died, I smoked a bowl and pissed on a copy of "steal this book". That was a great day for humanity.

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack@Jun 5 2004, 07:19 PM
If there's a hell, Reagan is just checking in.

:nyanya:


You would say anything to get attention. You are so non-comfirmist!! I stand in awe.

:lol:

[HoneyBlond]

RIP

[Joe Sixpack]

Originally posted by aeon@Jun 5 2004, 04:28 PM
I just saw them carrying pickets that said "make love, not war. They looked like they couldn't do either" - Ronald Reagan.

I love to see hippies die...it's like watching a virus be destroyed or a rat exterminated. One less potential infectious agent.

When Abbie Hoffman died, I smoked a bowl and pissed on a copy of "steal this book". That was a great day for humanity.
I know what you mean.

I love to see Yuppies die.

[Winetalk.com]

Joe,
you don't mind me ignoring you?

when I gave Labret too much attention,
he just died.

[aeon]

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack+Jun 5 2004, 04:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Joe Sixpack @ Jun 5 2004, 04:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--aeon@Jun 5 2004, 04:28 PM
I just saw them carrying pickets that said "make love, not war. They looked like they couldn't do either" - Ronald Reagan.

I love to see hippies die...it's like watching a virus be destroyed or a rat exterminated. One less potential infectious agent.

When Abbie Hoffman died, I smoked a bowl and pissed on a copy of "steal this book". That was a great day for humanity.
I know what you mean.

I love to see Yuppies die.[/b][/quote]
See...just like Reagan and Gorbachev...but Ronnie won.

Off to tie one on for the gipper. :stout:

[Joe Sixpack]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Jun 5 2004, 04:43 PM
Joe,
you don't mind me ignoring you?

when I gave Labret too much attention,
he just died.
Isn't this board closing down Surge?



Last edited by Joe Sixpack at Jun 5 2004, 04:45 PM

[Bishop]

Reagan was a good President.. his administraion was a good time in the US for lots of people. It is a shame that he is gone.. but he has been 'gone' for a long time. Rest In Peace Mr. President.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack+Jun 5 2004, 07:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Joe Sixpack @ Jun 5 2004, 07:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Serge_Oprano@Jun 5 2004, 04:43 PM
Joe,
you don't mind me ignoring you?

when I gave Labret too much attention,
he just died.
Isn't this board closing down Surge?[/b][/quote]
you tell me....I heard the rumor it was sold to Japanese for 118,000,000 yens

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by aeon@Jun 5 2004, 07:28 PM
I just saw them carrying pickets that said "make love, not war. They looked like they couldn't do either" - Ronald Reagan.

I love to see hippies die...it's like watching a virus be destroyed or a rat exterminated. One less potential infectious agent.

When Abbie Hoffman died, I smoked a bowl and pissed on a copy of "steal this book". That was a great day for humanity.
To paraphrase a great American,

You would say anything to get attention. You are so non-profound!! I stand in awe.

[gilgy]

he was a great man. The best president since Ike. But never forget behind every great man there is a woman. In this case....Maggie.

[aeon]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy+Jun 5 2004, 04:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PornoDoggy @ Jun 5 2004, 04:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--aeon@Jun 5 2004, 07:28 PM
I just saw them carrying pickets that said "make love, not war. They looked like they couldn't do either" - Ronald Reagan.

I love to see hippies die...it's like watching a virus be destroyed or a rat exterminated. One less potential infectious agent.

When Abbie Hoffman died, I smoked a bowl and pissed on a copy of "steal this book". That was a great day for humanity.
To paraphrase a great American,

You would say anything to get attention. You are so non-profound!! I stand in awe.
[/b][/quote]
I don't need/want your attention. This is board entertainment before going out for me. If you have traffic - I'm concerned with you...if not - was it your copy of "Steal This Book" I pissed on?

Ronald Reagan was the last of a generation...he helped nudge the soviet union into collapse by accelerating defense spending - made people feel good about themselves and kept the propoganda we all buy into alive. A lot of you liberal fuckwads supported him to - you don't carry 44 states with just republicans.

On a personal note, I love eastern european women - so I owe that man a deep debt of gratitude.

[jimmyf]

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack@Jun 5 2004, 04:19 PM
If there's a hell, Reagan is just checking in.

:nyanya:
suck my balls asswipe

[Vick]

:salute:

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by gilgy@Jun 5 2004, 07:58 PM
he was a great man. The best president since Ike. But never forget behind every great man there is a woman. In this case....Maggie.
he did Tatcher??????

[gilgy]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Jun 5 2004, 05:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Jun 5 2004, 05:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--gilgy@Jun 5 2004, 07:58 PM
he was a great man. The best president since Ike. But never forget behind every great man there is a woman. In this case....Maggie.
he did Tatcher??????[/b][/quote]
I don't know. What do you think? Lots of opinions on this one.

[Joe Sixpack]

Originally posted by jimmyf+Jun 5 2004, 05:02 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (jimmyf @ Jun 5 2004, 05:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Joe Sixpack@Jun 5 2004, 04:19 PM
If there's a hell, Reagan is just checking in.

:nyanya:
suck my balls asswipe[/b][/quote]
Only if you suck mine first.

[VooMan]

First time I ever voted, I voted for Reagan...

:salute: :salute: :salute:

[gonzo]

Originally posted by VooMan@Jun 5 2004, 08:48 PM
First time I ever voted, I voted for Reagan...

:salute: :salute: :salute:
Hey Voo....I got a season finale spoiler about the Sopranos tomorow night....wanna hear is?

[RawAlex]

A great president who sadly died twice, once when he lost his faculties, and once today. I didn't agree with his policies, I don't agree with his ideals, but I can respect a man who can communicate his vision as well as he did.

He was already missed... and he will be missed more.

Alex

PS: Nancy and all of the family must be bot sad and VERY relieved. She had said a while back that he had finally "gone", she couldn't reach him anymore at all. His passing is a blessing.

[Carrie]

Originally posted by gilgy@Jun 5 2004, 07:58 PM
he was a great man. The best president since Ike. But never forget behind every great man there is a woman. In this case....Maggie.
http://www.gotkinky.com/neatpics/ronmaggie.jpg
Reagan and Thatcher were one HELL of a team!

I think what you see above is as far as their physical relationship went.

[VooMan]

Originally posted by gonzo@Jun 5 2004, 08:59 PM
Hey Voo....I got a season finale spoiler about the Sopranos tomorow night....wanna hear is?
No, damnit!

:nyanya: la la laaa laaa I can't hear you... :nyanya:

That was the best smiley we have to remind you of the last spoiler conversation we had. haha

[Buff]

"Great" is a term as overused and misused as "hero."

Reagan was a great man, and he will be remembered as one of the most important people who rose to power in the United States, not unlike Pericles or Caesar. The positive, global, long term effects of his presidency will truly be recognized universally sometime in the distant future.

[Dravyk]

Out of curiosity, why of those who think Reagan was a good president, could you tell me why you think that?

Other than delivering a few good lines well that his speech makers wrote, this thread is surprisingly devoid of substantive answers. Serge? Mike? Want to list some highlights of what he did that you appreciate?

(Now, please don't include anything that any other president would have done had they been in that they reacted to; I'm talking about things he did proactively and profoundly.)

Btw, not trying to start a piss. Really. Not even trying to degregrate someone a lot of people here idolized. I just keep seeing the words "great president" and "positive effects long remembered", but other than a few snappy quotes, perhaps in your remembrances, a few actual examples of what and why would be deserving. :)

[Hell Puppy]

Lower taxes....

Smaller government...

Putting more power in the hands of the states....

And creating a military of such might and technological advances that all of our enemies spend themselves to death without ever firing a single shot.

Ahhhh....it's a shame we do not have anyone who is even a tenth the leadership ability as Reagan running today. He was sharp as a tack, and he truly was "The Great Communicator". When he would address the nation it was like having your dad or grandpa talk to you. He had the ability to explain everything in terms everyone could understand and make you feel it was gonna be alright.

And my favorite Reagan quote: "Government is not the solution, it is the problem...."

[Buff]

Originally posted by Dravyk@Jun 6 2004, 12:06 AM
Out of curiosity, why of those who think Reagan was a good president, could you tell me why you think that?

Other than delivering a few good lines well that his speech makers wrote, this thread is surprisingly devoid of substantive answers. Serge? Mike? Want to list some highlights of what he did that you appreciate?

(Now, please don't include anything that any other president would have done had they been in that they reacted to; I'm talking about things he did proactively and profoundly.)

Btw, not trying to start a piss. Really. Not even trying to degregrate someone a lot of people here idolized. I just keep seeing the words "great president" and "positive effects long remembered", but other than a few snappy quotes, perhaps in your remembrances, a few actual examples of what and why would be deserving. :)
1. Substantial tax cuts
2. Substantial military modernization and build-up
3. Started SDI
4. Bombed Libya
5. Crushed the Evil Empire
6. Helped reverse Carter's disasterous economic legacy.

[Joe Sixpack]

Ronald Reagan's economic legacy:

Trade deficit Current Account Deficit
Year ($ Billions) ($ Billions)
1981 -34.6 +8.2
1982 -38.4 -7.0
1983 -64.2 -44.3
1984 -122.4 -104.2
1985 -133.6 -112.7
1986 -155.5 -133.2
1987 -170.3 -143.7
1988 -137.1 -126.5

This is what happens when you cut taxes and increase defense spending.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack@Jun 6 2004, 03:36 AM
Ronald Reagan's economic legacy:

Trade deficit Current Account Deficit
Year ($ Billions) ($ Billions)
1981 -34.6 +8.2
1982 -38.4 -7.0
1983 -64.2 -44.3
1984 -122.4 -104.2
1985 -133.6 -112.7
1986 -155.5 -133.2
1987 -170.3 -143.7
1988 -137.1 -126.5

This is what happens when you cut taxes and increase defense spending.
joe,
the economic guru,
what exactly the correlation between
"cut taxes and increase defense spending and....trade defecit"?????

please refrain me from your own amateurish interpretations I've seen plenty of and I am not impressed,
but rather give me the URL where some noted economist makes the case for you.


P.S. watching you whipping yourself on this one brings tears to my eyes as always.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Buff+Jun 6 2004, 03:13 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Buff @ Jun 6 2004, 03:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Dravyk@Jun 6 2004, 12:06 AM
Out of curiosity, why of those who think Reagan was a good president, could you tell me why you think that?

Other than delivering a few good lines well that his speech makers wrote, this thread is surprisingly devoid of substantive answers. Serge? Mike? Want to list some highlights of what he did that you appreciate?

(Now, please don't include anything that any other president would have done had they been in that they reacted to; I'm talking about things he did proactively and profoundly.)

Btw, not trying to start a piss. Really. Not even trying to degregrate someone a lot of people here idolized. I just keep seeing the words "great president" and "positive effects long remembered", but other than a few snappy quotes, perhaps in your remembrances, a few actual examples of what and why would be deserving. :)
1. Substantial tax cuts
2. Substantial military modernization and build-up
3. Started SDI
4. Bombed Libya
5. Crushed the Evil Empire
6. Helped reverse Carter's disasterous economic legacy.[/b][/quote]
Buff,
VERY good retort to Drav, indeed.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Buff@Jun 5 2004, 11:51 PM


Reagan was a great man, and he will be remembered as one of the most important people who rose to power in the United States, not unlike Pericles or Caesar. The positive, global, long term effects of his presidency will truly be recognized universally sometime in the distant future.
Buff,
I wouldn't bet money on it.
we, the human beings, have a very short memories.

"11 There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.
"

(---Ecclesiastes)

[Joe Sixpack]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Jun 6 2004, 12:44 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Jun 6 2004, 12:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Joe Sixpack@Jun 6 2004, 03:36 AM
Ronald Reagan's economic legacy:

Trade deficit Current Account Deficit
Year ($ Billions) ($ Billions)
1981 -34.6 +8.2
1982 -38.4 -7.0
1983 -64.2 -44.3
1984 -122.4 -104.2
1985 -133.6 -112.7
1986 -155.5 -133.2
1987 -170.3 -143.7
1988 -137.1 -126.5

This is what happens when you cut taxes and increase defense spending.
joe,
the economic guru,
what exactly the correlation between
"cut taxes and increase defense spending and....trade defecit"?????

please refrain me from your own amateurish interpretations I've seen plenty of and I am not impressed,
but rather give me the URL where some noted economist makes the case for you.


P.S. watching you whipping yourself on this one brings tears to my eyes as always.[/b][/quote]
Serge I provided statistics for both the trade deficit and current account deficit.

My remarks were referring to the current account deficit 1980-1988.

[Joe Sixpack]

Serge, am I going to have to explain the concept of deficit spending to you?

:D

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack@Jun 6 2004, 03:53 AM

Serge I provided statistics for both the trade deficit and current account deficit.

My remarks were referring to the current account deficit 1980-1988.
you did NOT....
you said TRADE defecit, do you know what TRADE defecit is?

Is it good or bad? What TRADE deficit a function of?

tsk-tsk, Japan in those year had trade SURPLAS, and what happened to Japan in the 90's?

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack@Jun 6 2004, 04:00 AM
Serge, am I going to have to explain the concept of deficit spending to you?

:D
no, I'll spare you, I ONLY would like to see the explanation of how
DEFECIT SPENDING correlates with TRADE defecit.

...and all I have asked was a lousy URL proving your point.

Joe, we BOTH know that there is no correlation,
or you would stick it in my eye.

[Winetalk.com]

being a good guy,
I'll throw you a rope
(you can use it later on to hang yourself ;-)))

http://www.google.com/search?q=trade+defec...pending+defecit (http://www.google.com/search?q=trade+defecit+correlation+with+spending+d efecit)

Please notice how economists view the lack of correlations, while the amateur greenspans use CAPS to make their illogocal point stick out
;-)))

[Rolo]

Joe Sixpack, since you never had the pleasure of living in Europe in a time when communist where not only pointing nukes at every european, but were also using tons of resources to overthrow societies and goverments, then you will probably not understand how much Ronald Reagan did for peace. But instead of me learning you about history, then I think you should read http://www.reagan.dk/newintro.htm



Last edited by Rolo at Jun 6 2004, 01:18 AM

[Winetalk.com]

ok, ok,
I'll do it for you, as I have nothing better to do at 6 am
;-))

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/FederalDeficit.html

Yet, there is very little correlation between budget deficits and interest rates, saving and investment rates, or productivity growth rates.


Other economists, who worry about deficits, claim that the correlation between the deficit and other economic variables is so low because the deficit has been defined incorrectly. Two such economists are Robert Eisner (see Federal Debt) of Northwestern University and Stanford's Michael Boskin, chairman of the President's Council of Economic Advisers under George H. W. Bush. They point out that the government's official debt measures only the government's liabilities. It completely ignores the government's assets. Using the government's debt figures to assess its financial position is, in their view, akin to calling the owner of a $1 million property a debtor because he has a large mortgage on the property. These and other economists also fault the conventional deficit measure for failing to correct for inflation.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Rolo@Jun 6 2004, 04:17 AM
Joe Sixpack, since you never had the pleasure of living in Europe in a time when communist where not only pointing nukes at every european, but were also using tons of resources to overthrow societies and goverments, then you will probably not understand how much Ronald Reagan did for peace. But instead of me learning you about history, then I think you should read http://www.reagan.dk/newintro.htm
Rolo,
you think we have a chance to get thru Joe's head???

He is the OLDEST person on this board. I measure his age by the ability of him to LEARN things which are not the part of his pre-concived believes.

I am expecting " :stout: " response from him any time now...

[Joe Sixpack]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Jun 6 2004, 01:07 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Jun 6 2004, 01:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Joe Sixpack@Jun 6 2004, 04:00 AM
Serge, am I going to have to explain the concept of deficit spending to you?

:D
no, I'll spare you, I ONLY would like to see the explanation of how
DEFECIT SPENDING correlates with TRADE defecit.

...and all I have asked was a lousy URL proving your point.

Joe, we BOTH know that there is no correlation,
or you would stick it in my eye.[/b][/quote]
Serge, your obsession with the trade deficit is yours not mine.

My point was that Reagan turned the USA into the world's greatest debtor nation by cutting taxes and increasing government spending with borrowed money, fucking up the current account.

Understand?



Last edited by Joe Sixpack at Jun 6 2004, 01:34 AM

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack@Jun 6 2004, 04:33 AM
My point was that Reagan turned the USA into the world's greatest debtor nation by cutting taxes and increasing government spending
Don't be naive. It already was.

[Joe Sixpack]

Originally posted by Colin+Jun 6 2004, 01:36 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Colin @ Jun 6 2004, 01:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Joe Sixpack@Jun 6 2004, 04:33 AM
My point was that Reagan turned the USA into the world's greatest debtor nation by cutting taxes and increasing government spending
Don't be naive. It already was.[/b][/quote]
http://www.iie.com/images/mann0899-fig1.gif

Reagan made things worse.

[Rolo]

Joe Sixpack, you still do not understand/see HOW the cold war was won?

[Hell Puppy]

I dont give free economic lessons to dumb asses, but here's a chart of all of the important numbers regarding the U.S. economy from 1929-2000. I'll give a free hint as well: the green line is the important one.




http://www.die.net/musings/national_debt/per_capita_1929-1999.png

[Almighty Colin]

The collapse of the Soviet Union was, I believe, the most important world event post World War II. I remember sitting in my living room watching, shocked, as the events unfolded on CNN. Now, there is a debate of course as to how much credit Reagan should get. Destroying communism was his lifelong ambition. There were dozens of moves his administration made that were intended to weaken the Soviet Union and by all accounts they did. Reagan was bold - even brazen - in facing the USSR down. This was completely at odds with the approach of all the US presidents after Kennedy. Iranian and North Korean leaders were angry when they made the "Axis of Evil". Can you imagine the anger the leaders of a first rate superpower felt at being labelled an "Evil empire"?

Thre have been Soviets who said Reagan policies were the primary reason for the collapse.

Here is what the Soviet economist Pinsker said "If it had not been for the Reagan defense buildup, if the United States had not demonstrated that it is willing not only to stand up for freedom but to devote considerable sums of money to defending it we probably would not be sitting here today having a free discussion between Russians and Americans."

Probably. Pretty good odds.

[Joe Sixpack]

Originally posted by Rolo@Jun 6 2004, 01:44 AM
Joe Sixpack, you still do not understand/see HOW the cold war was won?
I know you are referring to outspending the USSR militarily and sending them to the wall financially.

But that was going to happen sooner or later anyway. Russia was never anything more than a second world nation on steroids.

Even if you believe that tactic was necessary, Reagan could have outspent the Russians and jacked up taxes to cover the bill but he didn't. My discussion was about deficit spending.



Last edited by Joe Sixpack at Jun 6 2004, 01:59 AM

[Joe Sixpack]

Anyway I'm off to watch a movie now so you can all argue amongst yourselves from here on in.

:butt:

[Almighty Colin]

Joe,

Do you mean the trade deficit or the US debt? You showed a graph of the trade balance. The trade balance is the value of exports minus imports. The US sells buys more from it's trading partners than it sells.

I think you are getting confused. Cutting taxes and government spending does not cause trade deficits.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack@Jun 6 2004, 04:56 AM
But that was going to happen sooner or later anyway. Russia was never anything more than a second world nation on steroids.
And Reagan is the man that made everyone believe that.

"What counts is results, and there can be no doubt that the Soviet planning system has been a powerful engine for economic growth...The Soviet model has surely demonstrated that a command economy is capable of mobilizing resources for rapid growth." - Paul Samuelson, MIT, Nobel laureate in economics, 1985.

"On the economic front, for the first time in its history the Soviet leadership was able to pursue successfully a policy of guns and butter as well as growth ... The Soviet citizen-worker, peasant, and professional - has become accustomed in the Brezhnev period to an uninterrupted upward trend in his well-being" -
John Kenneth Galbraith, Professor of Economics, Harvard University, 1984.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack+Jun 6 2004, 04:41 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Joe Sixpack @ Jun 6 2004, 04:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Colin@Jun 6 2004, 01:36 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Joe Sixpack@Jun 6 2004, 04:33 AM
My point was that Reagan turned the USA into the world's greatest debtor nation by cutting taxes and increasing government spending
Don't be naive. It already was.
http://www.iie.com/images/mann0899-fig1.gif

Reagan made things worse.[/b][/quote]
Nice graph. Note the three peaks in the graph where the US trade deficits were at their lowest. Those were all recession years. Some economists see those events as noncoincidental.

[Joe Sixpack]

Originally posted by Colin@Jun 6 2004, 02:08 AM
Joe,

Do you mean the trade deficit or the US debt? You showed a graph of the trade balance. The trade balance is the value of exports minus imports. The US sells buys more from it's trading partners than it sells.

I think you are getting confused. Cutting taxes and government spending does not cause trade deficits.
The trade deficit figures were in the table I cut and pasted.

I was referring to the current account deficit figures.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack@Jun 6 2004, 05:40 AM
The trade deficit figures were in the table I cut and pasted.

I was referring to the current account deficit figures.
I think you're still confused.

The account balance refers to the net inflow of goods, services, investments, money transfers, etc. The trade balance refers to the net flow of goods and services. That's all.

It sounds like you want to say the US debt

[Rolo]

Soviet Union was widely infecting politics in europen countries, when Reagan began as President. The leftwing in Europe was not only receiving money and education provided by the Soviet Union, they also had a waste intelligence network in european countries reporting back to Moscow. The debate in european countries were more and more in sympathy with the Soviet Union, and I´m sure that if the US had choosen the policy of isolationism, then the world map would be VERY different today. You can still find communist politicians in europe, but they are getting older or are converting to other more moderate socialist views.

Ronald Reagan made the power of balance not only military, but also in politics - in a time when he could just as well have sit on his ass in the whitehouse and build an army in the US, then he choose to confront communist thoughts in europe, which made europeans get their things together - ex. by speeding up the creation of the EU.

Sure Ronald Reagan was not the only force behind the fall of the Soviet Union, but Ronald Reagan made sure that there were a strong/powerful alternativ to communists, and when he left the whitehouse, then the domino events had already been started, which ultimate lead to the fall of the Soviet Union.

In 100 years I´m sure Ronald Reagan will be mention in historybooks - I´m not so sure about Joe Sixpack :awinky:



Last edited by Rolo at Jun 6 2004, 03:41 AM

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Colin+Jun 6 2004, 05:58 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Colin @ Jun 6 2004, 05:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Joe Sixpack@Jun 6 2004, 05:40 AM
The trade deficit figures were in the table I cut and pasted.

I was referring to the current account deficit figures.
I think you're still confused.

The account balance refers to the net inflow of goods, services, investments, money transfers, etc. The trade balance refers to the net flow of goods and services. That's all.

It sounds like you want to say the US debt[/b][/quote]
Colin,
There is a good Jewish proverb:
"When 2 people, without talking to each other, tell the third one that he is drunk-
the third one should go home to bed"

joe has no concept of what he is talking about, and the saddest part,
I doubt he'd EVER understand

[Winetalk.com]

re Soviet Union collapse and Reagan.

Everybody know who was the President to see it collapse, but how many of you know that it was...
JF Kennedy who put the wheels into the motion and whose idea was to get USSR involved in the arms race?

JFK forsaw well that what USA economy CAN afford, USSR economy can't.
Military budget in USA never exceeded 30%, while in USSR it was whoapping 80%!

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Jun 6 2004, 09:10 AM
re Soviet Union collapse and Reagan.

Everybody know who was the President to see it collapse, but how many of you know that it was...
JF Kennedy who put the wheels into the motion and whose idea was to get USSR involved in the arms race?

JFK forsaw well that what USA economy CAN afford, USSR economy can't.
Military budget in USA never exceeded 30%, while in USSR it was whoapping 80%!
I did .. and I learned this from you a while back.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Jun 6 2004, 09:06 AM


joe has no concept of what he is talking about, and the saddest part,
I doubt he'd EVER understand
I think if he keeps studying economics he might become a capitalist. ;-)

[Rolo]

JFK and Ronald Reagan were 2 smart politicians who had foresight, positive visions and the charisma to get the attention of the world - history will treat them well :)

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Colin+Jun 6 2004, 09:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Colin @ Jun 6 2004, 09:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Serge_Oprano@Jun 6 2004, 09:06 AM


joe has no concept of what he is talking about, and the saddest part,
I doubt he'd EVER understand
I think if he keeps studying economics he might become a capitalist. ;-)[/b][/quote]
...and become a poster boy for Reagan's quote you posted:
""How do you tell a Communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin." - Ronald Reagan
"
;-))))

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Rolo@Jun 6 2004, 09:19 AM
JFK and Ronald Reagan were 2 smart politicians who had foresight, positive visions and the charisma to get the attention of the world - history will treat them well :)
history?
seems like BOTH enjoy the quite large following while they were ALIVE,
something not too many artists can claim
;-)))

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack@Jun 6 2004, 04:58 AM
Anyway I'm off to watch a movie now so you can all argue amongst yourselves from here on in.

:butt:
ahhh! the NEW one to finish the losing battle...glad you FINALLY replaced the old and worn " :stout: "

you making progress, FINALLY,
you ARE learning something
;-)))

[Nickatilynx]

JoeSixpack,

This is what his friends and his "enemies" have said on being told of his passing:

Thatcher -

"a truly great American hero.Ronald Reagan had a higher claim than any other leader to have won the Cold War for liberty and he did it without a shot being fired."


Gennady Gerasimov, top spokesman for the Soviet Foreign Ministry during the 1980s -

"Reagan bolstered the U.S. military might to ruin the Soviet economy, and he achieved his goal"

Mikhail Gorbachev -

"Reagan was a statesman who, despite all disagreements that existed between our countries at the time, displayed foresight and determination to meet our proposals halfway and change our relations for the better, stop the nuclear race, start scrapping nuclear weapons, and arrange normal relations between our countries,"



Pretty nice tributes.

What will your friends and enemies say about you?
How many will mourn your passing?

And you dare criticise the man.....

fuck you.



Last edited by Nickatilynx at Jun 6 2004, 07:39 AM

[dantheman]

when I joined the marine corps in the early 80's the military was in a very bad way, the seventies were a very hard time, just after nam, noone wanted to be in, those in wanted out. money was very low and moral was even lower. BUT those first couple years Pres Reagan instilled pride back, gave us a nice and very needed raise. During those years all of us had a picture of the commander and chief in our rooms, every morning we would salute him..............That's how much respect he had on us grunts.....


RIP and semper fi :salute:

[Buff]

Originally posted by Joe Sixpack@Jun 6 2004, 02:36 AM
Ronald Reagan's economic legacy:

Trade deficit Current Account Deficit
Year ($ Billions) ($ Billions)
1981 -34.6 +8.2
1982 -38.4 -7.0
1983 -64.2 -44.3
1984 -122.4 -104.2
1985 -133.6 -112.7
1986 -155.5 -133.2
1987 -170.3 -143.7
1988 -137.1 -126.5

This is what happens when you cut taxes and increase defense spending.
Joe, explain what a trade deficit is, and why you think it's important.

[urb]

Hey, don't forget that the 40th President of the United States was also a great Actor who appeared in over 50 films.

Reagan was also governor of California for eight years.... maybe Arnie is trying to shadow his career.

I liked Reagan, he was a great bloke. :salute:

[Winetalk.com]

Great actor?????

I think you are stretching waaaaaaaaayy too far!

He has only ONE role in his life the World will remember him for:
The President of the United States.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Buff+Jun 6 2004, 11:38 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Buff @ Jun 6 2004, 11:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Joe Sixpack@Jun 6 2004, 02:36 AM
Ronald Reagan's economic legacy:

Trade deficit Current Account Deficit
Year ($ Billions) ($ Billions)
1981 -34.6 +8.2
1982 -38.4 -7.0
1983 -64.2 -44.3
1984 -122.4 -104.2
1985 -133.6 -112.7
1986 -155.5 -133.2
1987 -170.3 -143.7
1988 -137.1 -126.5

This is what happens when you cut taxes and increase defense spending.
Joe, explain what a trade deficit is, and why you think it's important.[/b][/quote]
...and before you answer Buff,
check the Trade Deficit numbers for the Unites States during the Great Depression
;-))))))

{if you need any more evidence that what you are saying has no meaning and value whatsoever}
;-))))

[urb]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Jun 6 2004, 09:01 AM
Great actor?????

I think you are stretching waaaaaaaaayy too far!

So if Schwarzenegger makes the White House one day, when he dies do you think he'll be remembered for his acting skills?

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by urb+Jun 6 2004, 12:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (urb @ Jun 6 2004, 12:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Serge_Oprano@Jun 6 2004, 09:01 AM
Great actor?????

I think you are stretching waaaaaaaaayy too far!

So if Schwarzenegger makes the White House one day, when he dies do you think he'll be remembered for his acting skills?[/b][/quote]
yes....much more than for his presidential skills
;-)))

[VooMan]

One thing I heard about Reagan was that he would NEVER take off his jacket in the Oval Office. To him it was disrespectful...

I doubt he ever got a blowjob while sitting at that desk. <_<

[Dravyk]

Glad I got you guys talking. :)

[mspice]

Dravyk,

Dude I love you man, and I respect your right to despise Reagan's politics (as wrong as you might be) but come on!

Reagan helped America believe in "America" at a time when that's the one thing we needed most.

Regardles of whether or not you believe the reteric, he got people behind the message, that we were truly the greatest country on the planet!

Say what you want about the politics (and I don't blame you) but right or wrong he let this country back to the promised land!

Something no other president has done since!

We will miss you Mr. Reagan, more than most people will ever know...

[Dravyk]

Spice, how are you doing? :)

As for Ronnie, look buddy, I have not been that hard on him at all you may have noticed.

Yes, he did a lot of good. Not knocking it. He did (IMHO) a lot of bad. And I really haven't pushed that either. Like most folks, he's grey. I don't know of a single conservative nor a single liberal nor a single "middle of the road" pol who was perfect or who was 100% this or that.

I give Reagan his due on the things that he did right. (No pun there on the word Right, btw! hehe)

I agree his lavish spending and arms build up was the right idea at the time and that aggressive policy caused the end of the Cold War. (I also agree it was one of the most frightening times I can remember, when sometimes the rheteroic on all sides was so hot it seemed we might be on the brink of nuclear war.)

I also agree the man had balls and right or wrong he made tough decisions others wouldn't and he kept to his guns. I respect him for that.

I'm not going to say I loved every decision he made. He left us some good things and some bad in his legacy. I'm all for focusing on the good. But I'm not going to be deluded into thinking he was perfect, nor will I ignore the bad.

Isn't that fair? If not, tough beans. :)

[Hell Puppy]

Originally posted by urb+Jun 6 2004, 12:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (urb @ Jun 6 2004, 12:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Serge_Oprano@Jun 6 2004, 09:01 AM
Great actor?????

I think you are stretching waaaaaaaaayy too far!

So if Schwarzenegger makes the White House one day, when he dies do you think he'll be remembered for his acting skills?[/b][/quote]
It would take an amendment to the constitution to allow Arnold to become President because he's an immigrant. He'd more likely be remembered for that more so than anything he did before or after.