I think Joee is home by now

[Winetalk.com]

http://www.clerk-17th-flcourts.org/bccoc2/...w+Selected+Case (http://www.clerk-17th-flcourts.org/bccoc2/pubsearch/case_summary.asp?CACE03009273=CIV&CACE03009273=CIV&CACE02007673=CIV&FMCE03005844=CIV&FMCE03005845=CIV&hidCaseNumber=04008535CF10A&04008535CF10A=CRM&txtLastName=ELKIND&txtFirstName=JOSEPH&txtMiddleInitial=&txtBusinessEntity=&cboCourtType=&chkAdvSearch=&hidSearchType=party_public&hidPageNumber=2&hidSendingPage=search_results&hidCourtType=CRM&hidGeneralType=CRM&mscssid=&user_type=&hidPageName=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.clerk-17th-flcourts.org%2Fbccoc2%2Fpubsearch%2Fpublic_search. asp%3F&btnSummary=View+Selected+Case)

[Mike AI]

I find it very telling to see who comes out posting supporting JoeE.

It is AMAZING to see. I am not sure if its just people trying to kiss a little ass, or be seen as an old time player, or if there is some kind of cult of personality - but in my opinion it is SAD to see people supporting someone who has been charged with assult of a person over 65 years of age.

It is one thing to be addicted to drugs, and have drug charges - this industry does not frown upon drugs, and addiction is a medical issue - a disease.

But FELONY assault ??

The same people who are posting claiming to be friends with JoeE are the same people who helped JoeE continue his spiraling lifestyle. These reth people who were hanging on looking for business, clicks, drugs, pussy, or whatever else Joe had. Even recently Brad came back offering to pay me what JoeE owed.

All of this behavior help lead JoeE to where he is now - by letting Joe slide so many times - be it on drug addiction, ripping people off, not paying affiliates, or whatever poor behavior has demonstraing all of these people were CONTRIBUTORS to his downfall. YOU people were his enablers!

People should have shunned JoeE until he learned personal responsibility, until he grew up and became the person he was. While I am sure some people tried ( I know I did), most of the people out there just overlooked these things, made excuses, and encouraged him.

The people claiming to be JoeE's friends are not true friends at all. True friend would have intervened in his life. True friends would have tried to make a difference.

I would like to think if I was in a situation like Joe was facing my TRUE friends would kick my ass, put me into rehab, dry me up, and do whatever it takes for me to get my life in order. Even if at the time I hate them, and it is uncomfortable - that is what TRUE friendship is about!! It's not posting on a message board proclaining your support for JoeE and what a great guy he was.

Blech!

[LittleC]

Mike Al,

I agree with you on this subject a 100%

I put a close friend of mine in rehab and paid for it. 22K it costs us and guess what ???

He is out, still has his job, still using the white stuff and I still do not have my monies back.. :agrin: :agrin: :agrin:

Stupid me for believing I could make a difference and I can help someone.

so next time I want to "help" someone I just stick with giving friendly advise at least I only get the "fuck off - mind your own business attitide" and it will not cost me money !!! :D :D

In JoeE's case I will not be a friend of anyone who does things like that but I have a hard time believing that he is like that.

Me = stupid again ??? :D :D

[Winetalk.com]

Mike,
Don't Judge

Pray don't find fault with the man
who limps or stumbles along the road
Unless you have worn the shoes he wears,
or struggled beneath his load.
There may be tacks in his shoes that hurt,
though hidden away from view,
Or the burden he bears...placed on your back,
might cause you to stumble too.

Don't be too harsh with the man who sins
or pelt him with word or stone
Unless you are sure...yea doubly sure
that you have no sins of your own...
For you know...perhaps if the tempters
voice should whisper...as softly to you
As it did to him...when he went astray
could cause you to falter too.

Author Unknown

[Winetalk.com]

when I am in doubt-
I read the Holy Bible...

"Matthew 7:1-5 Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured unto you. "

[Mike AI]

Serge, I am not judging JoeE, I am juding those who are posting on the boards who claim to be his friend.

Joe's path was greased by these type of "friends"

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jun 3 2004, 02:26 PM
Serge, I am not judging JoeE, I am juding those who are posting on the boards who claim to be his friend.

Joe's path was greased by these type of "friends"
I consider myself Joe's "friend" and while I never threw him down and checked him into rehab, I have also tried not to perform any inhouse legal decisions on my own. :awinky: As LL has pointed out, this very well could be something as simple as him telling off an elderly neighbor. Who knows?

Even Joe will tell you that everytime I saw him or spoke to him via email, I always asked if he was OK, and did what I could to tell him he was in much better shape w/o the drugs/drama than when he was involved in them.

Did I check him into rehab? No. I did what I could to compliment him on being clean and try to stress that when he wasn't, he was screwing himself over. That's all ANYONE can do, IMHO. :(

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Jun 3 2004, 01:26 PM
Serge, I am not judging JoeE, I am juding those who are posting on the boards who claim to be his friend.

Joe's path was greased by these type of "friends"
Mike,
NOBODY pissed with Joee more than me when he was up. We did have our share of pisses back in the day. But by no means I'd be kicking his ass when he is down, as simple as that.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Jun 3 2004, 10:41 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Jun 3 2004, 10:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Mike AI@Jun 3 2004, 01:26 PM
Serge, I am not judging JoeE, I am juding those who are posting on the boards who claim to be his friend.

Joe's path was greased by these type of "friends"
Mike,
NOBODY pissed with Joee more than me when he was up. We did have our share of pisses back in the day. But by no means I'd be kicking his ass when he is down, as simple as that.[/b][/quote]
:okthumb:

Mike you really are a sanctomonious bastard for your age. :)

My money is on you being a real pain in the ass "told ya so" merchant in yr later years

LOL

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Jun 3 2004, 01:53 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Jun 3 2004, 01:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Serge_Oprano@Jun 3 2004, 10:41 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Mike AI@Jun 3 2004, 01:26 PM
Serge, I am not judging JoeE, I am juding those who are posting on the boards who claim to be his friend.

Joe's path was greased by these type of "friends"
Mike,
NOBODY pissed with Joee more than me when he was up. We did have our share of pisses back in the day. But by no means I'd be kicking his ass when he is down, as simple as that.
:okthumb:

Mike you really are a sanctomonious bastard for your age. :)

My money is on you being a real pain in the ass "told ya so" merchant in yr later years

LOL[/b][/quote]
nah ya'll are all wrong on this.

You have only seen me bust JoeE's balls on the boards, or some in e-mail. I would always try to get some one on one with Joe, even recently. We would speak about his mom, and daughter and I tried to get his ass to see the error in his ways, and what he has to live for. Where he was going was a dead end - we all know that. We have seen it.

I am not screaming I told you so to JoeE, I am screaming that the people who patted him on back, who are kissing his ass, always cutting him slack, and enabling him to live a destructive lifestyle.

I like JoeE, I liked him best when I had him alone, playing basketball or shooting the shit. No crowds for him to work and impress, just him low key. He has a lot of good in him, I tried to pull it out.

I busted JoeE's balls publicly to get him to see that his actions had reprocotions and not everyone lets things slide. It may not have been my job, but I do not think coddling him got him anywhere either.

I am not a told you so kind guy..... ( well at least not when it comes to personal issues with people - politics and such are different)

[Nickatilynx]

Mike ,

I really do look forward to meeting you , you are an interesting guy. :)


( that is not meant in a gay way btw)

;-))

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jun 3 2004, 03:20 PM
Mike ,

I really do look forward to meeting you , you are an interesting guy. :)


( that is not meant in a gay way btw)

;-))
I feel the same way about you Nick.

Not in a gay way of course!

:matey:

[*KK*]

I agree with you completely Michael.

Serge, the Sheriffs Dept web site has him listed as no bond, and the courts have a jury trial on the assault charges scheduled for next Monday...

I hope Joe gets himself in order before its too late and they wont give him another chance. Everyone makes mistakes, but not everyone learns from their mistakes.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by *KK*@Jun 3 2004, 03:45 PM
I agree with you completely Michael.

Serge, the Sheriffs Dept web site has him listed as no bond, and the courts have a jury trial on the assault charges scheduled for next Monday...

I hope Joe gets himself in order before its too late and they wont give him another chance. Everyone makes mistakes, but not everyone learns from their mistakes.
KK,
I won't even beat your ex when he is down. Call me a "good Christian", but I do not find joy in pissing on the graves.

[Billy]

Originally posted by Mike AI+Jun 3 2004, 03:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike AI @ Jun 3 2004, 03:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Nickatilynx@Jun 3 2004, 03:20 PM
Mike ,

I really do look forward to meeting you , you are an interesting guy. :)


( that is not meant in a gay way btw)

;-))
I feel the same way about you Nick.

Not in a gay way of course!

:matey:[/b][/quote]
I miss both of yall.. and not in a gay way.

Just had to get this in : )

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by Billy+Jun 3 2004, 04:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Billy @ Jun 3 2004, 04:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Mike AI@Jun 3 2004, 03:45 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Nickatilynx@Jun 3 2004, 03:20 PM
Mike ,

I really do look forward to meeting you , you are an interesting guy. :)


( that is not meant in a gay way btw)

;-))
I feel the same way about you Nick.

Not in a gay way of course!

:matey:
I miss both of yall.. and not in a gay way.

Just had to get this in : )[/b][/quote]
Billy we will have some more Quality Time tonight!

:unsure:

[*KK*]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Jun 3 2004, 12:48 PM
KK,
I won't even beat your ex when he is down. Call me a "good Christian", but I do not find joy in pissing on the graves.
Hahaha, which ex?

;-}}}}

I don't have Joe's rap sheet, so I don't know how many other issues he may have had, hopefully it's none. But the three strikes and you're out rule fucks up people with small mistakes way more than hard core criminals. I'd hate to see something like that happen to anyone I know.

[Sharpie]

Bingo!

Mike is right when he said " I like JoeE, I liked him best when I had him alone, playing basketball or shooting the shit. No crowds for him to work and impress, just him low key. He has a lot of good in him, I tried to pull it out."

I saw that side of him many times............. it all changed when he thought he had 'to play the role..... "being a player" certainly wasn't in his best interest. He spent way too much time 'buying friends with money. I tried to tell him that. It wasn't necessary. He had a good heart and was way to generous at times. He didn't need to buy friends - just let the bullshit go and be himself. But, i guess it wasn't enough. A person is bettr off having 5 friends that you can count on than a thousand that you had to buy.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by *KK*+Jun 3 2004, 05:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (*KK* @ Jun 3 2004, 05:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Serge_Oprano@Jun 3 2004, 12:48 PM
KK,
I won't even beat your ex when he is down. Call me a "good Christian", but I do not find joy in pissing on the graves.
Hahaha, which ex?

;-}}}}

[/b][/quote]
as Dravyk would say:
AllOf'Em

;-)))

[gonzo]

Originally posted by Sharpie@Jun 3 2004, 06:18 PM
A person is bettr off having 5 friends that you can count on than a thousand that you had to buy.
Kind of summarizes our philosophy on Oprano and why its better off hanging out with 5 friends than paying the masses a dime to post and turning the joint into a sig whorefest.

[sarettah]

You cannot change people. To believe that you have the kind of control over a person that you can actually make them change is a very egotistical view.

Only a person themselves can make changes in their lives.

You can talk to them till you are blue in the face, you can check them in and out of rehab every week, you can pay off their gambling debts and help give them a new start, you can help them destroy all the alcohol in their reach and then drive them back and forth to AA 7 nights a week and it still will not matter a fucking hoot.

Hope JoeE comes through this ok. I don't know him, I just know of him what I have read so I have no real feelings towards him one way or another. However, he is a human being and has apparently had problems before, the kind that money can't cure, and I wish that on noone.

:(

[jimmyf]

Originally posted by sarettah@Jun 3 2004, 04:15 PM
You cannot change people. To believe that you have the kind of control over a person that you can actually make them change is a very egotistical view.

Only a person themselves can make changes in their lives.

You can talk to them till you are blue in the face, you can check them in and out of rehab every week, you can pay off their gambling debts and help give them a new start, you can help them destroy all the alcohol in their reach and then drive them back and forth to AA 7 nights a week and it still will not matter a fucking hoot.

Hope JoeE comes through this ok. I don't know him, I just know of him what I have read so I have no real feelings towards him one way or another. However, he is a human being and has apparently had problems before, the kind that money can't cure, and I wish that on noone.

:(
sarettah you got it pretty much 100% correct.

And that's coming from a person that has been there.

The only person that can help JoeE is JoeE no if ands or buts.

I think what Mike is saying is that people enabled this man.
that's just as bad as giving a drunk booze.

What people like this will do, if you are not very carefull is end up
in the gutter and take you right along with them.

[CuriousToyBoy]

I take Serge's point - it is a cowardly act to kick somewhen when they are down, and gutless to make up shit and prosper out of someone else's misfortune.

I also Take Mike's point - there is NOTHING worse than pretend friends with ulterior motives.

Can I just say let he who is without sin be the one to cast the first stone?

Can I again repeat the old proverb:
If you want to know who your real friends are, get yourself a jail sentence

:stout:

[cj]

Originally posted by sarettah@Jun 3 2004, 07:15 PM
You cannot change people. To believe that you have the kind of control over a person that you can actually make them change is a very egotistical view.

Only a person themselves can make changes in their lives.

You can talk to them till you are blue in the face, you can check them in and out of rehab every week, you can pay off their gambling debts and help give them a new start, you can help them destroy all the alcohol in their reach and then drive them back and forth to AA 7 nights a week and it still will not matter a fucking hoot.

Hope JoeE comes through this ok. I don't know him, I just know of him what I have read so I have no real feelings towards him one way or another. However, he is a human being and has apparently had problems before, the kind that money can't cure, and I wish that on noone.

:(
I don't think Mike was claiming to be able to fix joes problems ... he was referring to the amazing amount of people who have patted joe on the back and laughed and encouraged him while he was snorting, drinking, throwing money in pools etc who are now turning around and saying 'oh what a shame'.

While you can't fix people's problems for them, being a friend involves telling the truth - whether its pleasant to hear or not - and providing support during that time. Unfortunately, most of this industry is as greedy and money hungry as each other, and saving a human being always falls second to the almighty dollar.

What's egotistical about thinking you can do something to help someone? We all have the power to help other people, but few of us know where to start.

At the end of all this, if Joe turned his life around, I'd be there to support him. Surprised?! I have a lot of time for people who help themselves, not for people who claim to be off drugs while rolling up a fiddy & cutting up on a toilet seat ...

I genuinely hope this is the kick in the pants Joe needed to straighten himself out & I'll be the first person to congratulate him if he does.

[aeon]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Jun 3 2004, 10:14 AM
when I am in doubt-
I read the Holy Bible...

"Matthew 7:1-5 Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured unto you. "
I'm not a christian and neither are you from what I gather...people need to be judged on their actions. We all make choices and we live with them. Responsibility is a foreign concept these days it seems.

That's not to say sympathy doesn't exist...it's demonstrated through help/encouragement, not the lack of judgement...and realizing individuals need to take responsibility for their own actions.



Last edited by aeon at Jun 3 2004, 09:59 PM

[CuriousToyBoy]

Originally posted by aeon+Jun 4 2004, 03:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (aeon @ Jun 4 2004, 03:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Serge_Oprano@Jun 3 2004, 10:14 AM
when I am in doubt-
I read the Holy Bible...

"Matthew 7:1-5 Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured unto you. "
I'm not a christian and neither are you from what I gather...people need to be judged on their actions. We all make choices and we live with them. Responsibility is a foreign concept these days it seems.

That's not to say sympathy doesn't exist...it's demonstrated through help/encouragement, not the lack of judgement...and realizing individuals need to take responsibility for their own actions.[/b][/quote]
From a confirmed Athiest all I can say is....

Amen to that brother!

:stout:

[XXXPhoto]

Originally posted by CuriousToyBoy@Jun 3 2004, 05:29 PM
Can I again repeat the old proverb:
If you want to know who your real friends are, get yourself a jail sentence
Friends will help you move...
Real friends will help you move a body.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by aeon@Jun 4 2004, 12:57 AM

I'm not a christian and neither are you from what I gather...people need to be judged on their actions.
LET HE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by CuriousToyBoy+Jun 4 2004, 05:08 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CuriousToyBoy @ Jun 4 2004, 05:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -aeon@Jun 4 2004, 03:57 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Serge_Oprano@Jun 3 2004, 10:14 AM
when I am in doubt-
I read the Holy Bible...

"Matthew 7:1-5 Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured unto you. "
I'm not a christian and neither are you from what I gather...people need to be judged on their actions. We all make choices and we live with them. Responsibility is a foreign concept these days it seems.

That's not to say sympathy doesn't exist...it's demonstrated through help/encouragement, not the lack of judgement...and realizing individuals need to take responsibility for their own actions.
From a confirmed Athiest all I can say is....

Amen to that brother!

:stout:[/b][/quote]
...and I say to you:
you cast those stones and I point to YOUR sins,
including your sniffing your mother's underwear
;-))))

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by XXXPhoto+Jun 4 2004, 05:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (XXXPhoto @ Jun 4 2004, 05:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--CuriousToyBoy@Jun 3 2004, 05:29 PM
Can I again repeat the old proverb:
If you want to know who your real friends are, get yourself a jail sentence
Friends will help you move...
Real friends will help you move a body.[/b][/quote]
TRUE and REAL friends will even help you turn somebody into a _body_
;-))))

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by *KK*@Jun 3 2004, 03:45 PM
I agree with you completely Michael.

Serge, the Sheriffs Dept web site has him listed as no bond, and the courts have a jury trial on the assault charges scheduled for next Monday...

I hope Joe gets himself in order before its too late and they wont give him another chance. Everyone makes mistakes, but not everyone learns from their mistakes.
KK,
you are wrong...
$5000 bond is listed on that website....
you should check your sources of information better:

http://www.sheriff.org/apps/arrest/details...fm?ID=500407947 (http://www.sheriff.org/apps/arrest/details.cfm?ID=500407947)

[CuriousToyBoy]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Jun 4 2004, 09:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Jun 4 2004, 09:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--aeon@Jun 4 2004, 12:57 AM

I'm not a christian and neither are you from what I gather...people need to be judged on their actions.
LET HE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE[/b][/quote]
Damn I wish I had said that...

Hang on...

I did.

:nyanya:

[CuriousToyBoy]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Jun 4 2004, 09:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Jun 4 2004, 09:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -XXXPhoto@Jun 4 2004, 05:47 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--CuriousToyBoy@Jun 3 2004, 05:29 PM
Can I again repeat the old proverb:
If you want to know who your real friends are, get yourself a jail sentence
Friends will help you move...
Real friends will help you move a body.
TRUE and REAL friends will even help you turn somebody into a _body_
;-))))[/b][/quote]
Serge,

The best friends help you get rid of the bodies as well and not leave you to hold than can.

:unsure: :blink: :agrin:

[*KK*]

Event Date Event Description Room Time Presider Division Count
06/07/2004 JURY TRIAL 6870 0830 MICHAEL L GATES FC OPN

Beats me I guess.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Jun 4 2004, 03:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Jun 4 2004, 03:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -XXXPhoto@Jun 4 2004, 05:47 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--CuriousToyBoy@Jun 3 2004, 05:29 PM
Can I again repeat the old proverb:
If you want to know who your real friends are, get yourself a jail sentence
Friends will help you move...
Real friends will help you move a body.
TRUE and REAL friends will even help you turn somebody into a _body_
;-))))[/b][/quote]
ahahahahahahaha good one!!!!!

:wnw:

[aeon]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Jun 4 2004, 03:08 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Jun 4 2004, 03:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--aeon@Jun 4 2004, 12:57 AM

I'm not a christian and neither are you from what I gather...people need to be judged on their actions.
LET HE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE[/b][/quote]
that would work if I believed in it...

That jesus fella should just be glad Sandy Koufax wasn't a Pharisee back in those days.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by aeon+Jun 4 2004, 12:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (aeon @ Jun 4 2004, 12:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Serge_Oprano@Jun 4 2004, 03:08 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--aeon@Jun 4 2004, 12:57 AM

I'm not a christian and neither are you from what I gather...people need to be judged on their actions.
LET HE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE
that would work if I believed in it...

That jesus fella should just be glad Sandy Koufax wasn't a Pharisee back in those days.[/b][/quote]
Aeon,
beleiving in Jesus is good for the soul and general business education,
there are few chapters dedicated to Judas,
and one should never miss those chapters
;-)))

One of the major flaws of Torah is that Torah misses Judas charecters completely
;-)))

[aeon]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Jun 4 2004, 10:04 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Jun 4 2004, 10:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -aeon@Jun 4 2004, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by -Serge_Oprano@Jun 4 2004, 03:08 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--aeon@Jun 4 2004, 12:57 AM

I'm not a christian and neither are you from what I gather...people need to be judged on their actions.
LET HE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE
that would work if I believed in it...

That jesus fella should just be glad Sandy Koufax wasn't a Pharisee back in those days.
Aeon,
beleiving in Jesus is good for the soul and general business education,
there are few chapters dedicated to Judas,
and one should never miss those chapters
;-)))

One of the major flaws of Torah is that Torah misses Judas charecters completely
;-)))[/b][/quote]
Torah has it's own "Judas' "

Just to cite a couple:

Prolly the most famous of which you can read all about in Bereishit: Parashat Vayeshev, the story of Joseph and his brothers.

And I imagine Adam felt just a little bit betrayed when Cain decided to go soprano's on his ass.

If you wanna go into Midrashic stories of betrayal...this would go on for months.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by aeon@Jun 4 2004, 09:01 PM

Torah has it's own "Judas' "

Just to cite a couple:

Prolly the most famous of which you can read all about in Bereishit: Parashat Vayeshev, the story of Joseph and his brothers.

And I imagine Adam felt just a little bit betrayed when Cain decided to go soprano's on his ass.

If you wanna go into Midrashic stories of betrayal...this would go on for months.
Joseph was cocky little prick and got what was coming to him,
very educational story ALL cocky pricks should learn from


as for ADAM and Cain,
you probably meant Abel, of guru of Torah.

and...Abel was another "goody 2 shoes"

[aeon]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Jun 4 2004, 06:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Jun 4 2004, 06:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--aeon@Jun 4 2004, 09:01 PM

Torah has it's own "Judas' "

Just to cite a couple:

Prolly the most famous of which you can read all about in Bereishit: Parashat Vayeshev, the story of Joseph and his brothers.

And I imagine Adam felt just a little bit betrayed when Cain decided to go soprano's on his ass.

If you wanna go into Midrashic stories of betrayal...this would go on for months.
Joseph was cocky little prick and got what was coming to him,
very educational story ALL cocky pricks should learn from


as for ADAM and Cain,
you probably meant Abel, of guru of Torah.

and...Abel was another "goody 2 shoes"[/b][/quote]
yer right...I meant abel - what happens when you debate Torah with a bit of absolute before going to a club - this is the reason you never drink before Yeshiva.

And Jesus wasn't cocky?

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by aeon+Jun 4 2004, 09:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (aeon @ Jun 4 2004, 09:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Serge_Oprano@Jun 4 2004, 06:05 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--aeon@Jun 4 2004, 09:01 PM

Torah has it's own "Judas' "

Just to cite a couple:

Prolly the most famous of which you can read all about in Bereishit: Parashat Vayeshev, the story of Joseph and his brothers.

And I imagine Adam felt just a little bit betrayed when Cain decided to go soprano's on his ass.

If you wanna go into Midrashic stories of betrayal...this would go on for months.
Joseph was cocky little prick and got what was coming to him,
very educational story ALL cocky pricks should learn from


as for ADAM and Cain,
you probably meant Abel, of guru of Torah.

and...Abel was another "goody 2 shoes"
yer right...I meant abel - what happens when you debate Torah with a bit of absolute before going to a club - this is the reason you never drink before Yeshiva.

And Jesus wasn't cocky?[/b][/quote]
Jesus was NOT cocky...remember his response to Pitat:
"That's what YOU say"

hardly a cocky statement.