did you guys know that Ashcroft and the justice

[JoesHO]

yep thats right, all you fans of the new patriot act, allowing for all those extended stays in jail without the opportunity to speak with a lawyer.

Well I think this one is gonna cost ya....

Portland , Oregon ( home to many true patriots) is where this travesty of justice LOL took place.

you see they placed this lawyer in jail, raided his home, and his bussiness, siezed his propety to investigate, all with out any warrents ( claimed he was a terrorist sympathiser of course) hah I bet most of the republican sheep believed it too, just like they did richard Jewell ( only Jewell had rights, and bail, and a lawyer, etc... you see the difference yet?)

well to summarize..... THEY FUCKED UP!!!!!

oops it was a mistake of identity they said....
now they let the guy go, admit he is innnocent, and get this...

they make him agree to a gag order to let him out!!!!!!

republicans have trampled the constitution to the dirt... please bring back the constitution and all of it's protections... ( am I unpatriotic now, or just a stupid liberal, because I want our rights (the ones that created this great nation remember?) back? )

weigh in let me here what the patriots have to say now?

do we live in a third world country now with no laws?
are we in Iraq being ruled by a dictator?
would theybe more likely to do this in a place like afghanistan or does it really exsist in America?

[Mike AI]

Do you have a link? Or do we take your word on it?

[JoesHO]

Originally posted by Mike AI@May 22 2004, 06:14 AM
Do you have a link? Or do we take your word on it?
well, as you know, I am not a big fan of bullshit, but I will look for a link...
or I will mail you the paper if it is not being spoke about nationally.... :)

[JoesHO]

http://www.oregonlive.com/search/index.ssf...l?oregonian?ede (http://www.oregonlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/editorial/1085227265317940.xml?oregonian?ede)


I did however quote the wrong law used for the abuse....
it is the material witness law, not the patriot act.... but you see the potential to abuse either one.

and of course you KNOW that they are .

[Winetalk.com]

MikeAI,
I followed thsi case from the start and unfortunatelly it's all true

[JoesHO]

You know, I must say that I agree on several principles of the republican party, and I also agree with the constitution...

it is the abuses that are taking place, and the lies, and the rhetoric as oppossed to the actions that I am against...

in fact I see the glass as half empty when I view these events unfolding before our eyes, all in the name of patriotism.

who is the true patriot?
the one who sees injustice and questions it?
or the one who says no questions please or you are our enemy?

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by JoesHO1@May 22 2004, 10:11 AM

or the one who says no questions please or you are our enemy?
The Communist Party of the Soviet Union made it state politics and look where it got them....

[PornoDoggy]

Aw, come on ...

he's a gawddamned Muslim and probably a gawddamned liberal

and above all, a gawddamned lawyer.

what right thinking 'merikin gives a fine flying fuck what they do to him?

(I'm just wondering who's gonna be a-screechin' and a-screamin' when Attorney General Ted Kennedy uses these laws to go after groups who advocate killin' baby-killin' doctors, the good folks workin' to protect America by defendin' the white race, and 2nd-Ammendment defenders who have taken to the woods to prepare for Helter-Skelter?)

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by JoesHO1@May 22 2004, 09:01 AM
they make him agree to a gag order to let him out!!!!!!

same with my friend and a former business partner who got thoroughly buttfucked by the IRS. Several years and millions of dollars later, he won...but was broke and had to sign a gag order...

[Feynman]

- Every single law WILL get used in the worst possible way.

- Every provision of a law that legislators assures us that will not get used WILL get used in the very worst way.

that's a law of the Nature of Lawmakers...

[aeon]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@May 22 2004, 08:02 AM
Aw, come on ...

he's a gawddamned Muslim and probably a gawddamned liberal

and above all, a gawddamned lawyer.

what right thinking 'merikin gives a fine flying fuck what they do to him?

(I'm just wondering who's gonna be a-screechin' and a-screamin' when Attorney General Ted Kennedy uses these laws to go after groups who advocate killin' baby-killin' doctors, the good folks workin' to protect America by defendin' the white race, and 2nd-Ammendment defenders who have taken to the woods to prepare for Helter-Skelter?)
The only thing attorney general ted kennedy would do is find a way not to prosecute people for young girls who drown in cars while the drivers "miraculously" survive...and forget to report it to the police for a day or so....funny how that goes - another "coincidence"?



Last edited by aeon at May 22 2004, 11:11 AM

[Torone]

Originally posted by Mike AI@May 22 2004, 08:14 AM
Do you have a link? Or do we take your word on it?
I wouldn't. Interpol said that his fingerprints were found in Spain on a bag containing bomb supplies tied to the Madrid bombing. It turned out to be wrong; but at least they didn't murder his wife and kid ala Ruby Ridge...

[JoesHO]

Originally posted by aeon+May 22 2004, 11:07 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (aeon @ May 22 2004, 11:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--PornoDoggy@May 22 2004, 08:02 AM
Aw, come on ...

he's a gawddamned Muslim and probably a gawddamned liberal

and above all, a gawddamned lawyer.

what right thinking 'merikin gives a fine flying fuck what they do to him?

(I'm just wondering who's gonna be a-screechin' and a-screamin' when Attorney General Ted Kennedy uses these laws to go after groups who advocate killin' baby-killin' doctors, the good folks workin' to protect America by defendin' the white race, and 2nd-Ammendment defenders who have taken to the woods to prepare for Helter-Skelter?)
The only thing attorney general ted kennedy would do is find a way not to prosecute people for young girls who drown in cars while the drivers "miraculously" survive...and forget to report it to the police for a day or so....funny how that goes - another "coincidence"?[/b][/quote]
come on, that is horse shit, and you know it!

not that I condone chapacwidick ( I do not)

but I would again ask you,wich is more of a human nature instinct?

Lying to save your ass?
or
Lying to murder tens of thousands of people for nothing more than revenge and greed?

[Vick]

Ted Kennedy??? WTF

Bobby get a bullet
John gets a bullet

Teddy must not have been worth the gunpowder

:D

[dig420]

Originally posted by Torone+May 22 2004, 04:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Torone @ May 22 2004, 04:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Mike AI@May 22 2004, 08:14 AM
Do you have a link? Or do we take your word on it?
I wouldn't. Interpol said that his fingerprints were found in Spain on a bag containing bomb supplies tied to the Madrid bombing. It turned out to be wrong; but at least they didn't murder his wife and kid ala Ruby Ridge...[/b][/quote]
If you're so concerned about the black helicopters coming to take out the rest of you survivalists now that they've mopped up Ruby Ridge, why are you voting for the party that is working so hard to further restrict your individual liberties via the Patriot Act?

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by dig420+May 22 2004, 11:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (dig420 @ May 22 2004, 11:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Torone@May 22 2004, 04:09 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Mike AI@May 22 2004, 08:14 AM
Do you have a link? Or do we take your word on it?
I wouldn't. Interpol said that his fingerprints were found in Spain on a bag containing bomb supplies tied to the Madrid bombing. It turned out to be wrong; but at least they didn't murder his wife and kid ala Ruby Ridge...
If you're so concerned about the black helicopters coming to take out the rest of you survivalists now that they've mopped up Ruby Ridge, why are you voting for the party that is working so hard to further restrict your individual liberties via the Patriot Act?[/b][/quote]
brainwashedkoolaiddrinkingcommiehippiepinkofellowt raveller

[JR]

Discuss. (http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/West/10/04/oregon.fbi.alqaeda/)

[PornoDoggy]

JR ... what's to discuss? There are bad guys in Oregon.

I don't think that means that everyone in Oregon is a bad guy.

I don't think that even means that every Muslim in Oregon is a bad guy.

[JR]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@May 22 2004, 10:48 PM
JR ... what's to discuss? There are bad guys in Oregon.

I don't think that means that everyone in Oregon is a bad guy.

I don't think that even means that every Muslim in Oregon is a bad guy.
there is nothing to discuss. i was just trying to be annoying.




there has not been any terrorist attacks since 9/11 on US soil. many cells have been broken up. many people arrested. lots of funds frozen and people brought to justice all over the globe.

what is the count now in all the "taking away your rights rhetoric" in the count of terrorists busted vs. "innocent' being wrongly treated or accused? something like several thousand to 2 (Padilla and this guy).

yawn.

you can't make an omlett without breaking any eggs.




i am going to go cower in the corner now expecting the government to kick in my door at any second and take me a away for no reason and detain me without cause or explanation while while chanting "meni is right... meni is right" until the next election.


NOT!



Last edited by JR at May 22 2004, 11:42 PM

[dig420]

yeah that'll be cool until you're the egg. When they're doing it to us the anti-porn people will be saying the same thing you're saying now.

The omelette thing really isn't much of a defense.

So we're supposed to give Bush credit that there haven't been major attacks like WTC since 9/11? Fuck that. It happened on his watch, through his inattention and foreign policy incompetence. Who gets credit for all the attacks that didn't happen before his presidency? Clinton?

Do you really consider protesting the ceding of yet more of our liberty to an overintrusive government sheer rhetoric? What's high minded policy discourse to you? Making fun of the French maybe, or ridiculing all the liberals who are just too dumb to shut up and trust the government like you do?

"i am going to go cower in the corner now expecting the government to kick in my door at any second and take me a away for no reason and detain me without cause or explanation" -- if they can do it to one citizen, they can do it to any other, including you. We would have been the #1 enemy of the state if Osama hadn't hogged all the headlines.



Last edited by dig420 at May 23 2004, 02:52 AM

[Meni]

well said

[JoesHO]

Originally posted by JR+May 22 2004, 11:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JR @ May 22 2004, 11:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--PornoDoggy@May 22 2004, 10:48 PM
JR ... what's to discuss? There are bad guys in Oregon.

I don't think that means that everyone in Oregon is a bad guy.

I don't think that even means that every Muslim in Oregon is a bad guy.
there is nothing to discuss. i was just trying to be annoying.




there has not been any terrorist attacks since 9/11 on US soil. many cells have been broken up. many people arrested. lots of funds frozen and people brought to justice all over the globe.

what is the count now in all the "taking away your rights rhetoric" in the count of terrorists busted vs. "innocent' being wrongly treated or accused? something like several thousand to 2 (Padilla and this guy).

yawn.

you can't make an omlett without breaking any eggs.




i am going to go cower in the corner now expecting the government to kick in my door at any second and take me a away for no reason and detain me without cause or explanation while while chanting "meni is right... meni is right" until the next election.


NOT![/b][/quote]
Dude, break out some numbers PRE 9-11

The same arguments can be used......
there was no need to add aditional laws to RESTRICT human rights.....

we went since 1942 without any attacks on US soil
(except for a cristian right wing white boy and his militia buddies)

should we go run lock up all the Jehovis witness now, so they stop spewing the hatred? LOL

[JoesHO]

Originally posted by dig420@May 22 2004, 11:51 PM
yeah that'll be cool until you're the egg. When they're doing it to us the anti-porn people will be saying the same thing you're saying now.

The omelette thing really isn't much of a defense.

So we're supposed to give Bush credit that there haven't been major attacks like WTC since 9/11? Fuck that. It happened on his watch, through his inattention and foreign policy incompetence. Who gets credit for all the attacks that didn't happen before his presidency? Clinton?

Do you really consider protesting the ceding of yet more of our liberty to an overintrusive government sheer rhetoric? What's high minded policy discourse to you? Making fun of the French maybe, or ridiculing all the liberals who are just too dumb to shut up and trust the government like you do?

"i am going to go cower in the corner now expecting the government to kick in my door at any second and take me a away for no reason and detain me without cause or explanation" -- if they can do it to one citizen, they can do it to any other, including you. We would have been the #1 enemy of the state if Osama hadn't hogged all the headlines.
Exactlly! :salute: a true patriot, is one that believes that the principles in wich this country are founded on, are not just easy to sweep under the rug at any convient time to do whatever they want...

We are a democrasy, where all men are created equal, and afforded the same protections.... at least that is the way they wrote in the first place....

GW is to the constitution what joseph smith was to the bible...

he is writing his own version as things go along, just to improve on itLOL
funny how it only improves for his followers though, and not all men like it was intended to be....

[Torone]

Originally posted by dig420+May 22 2004, 10:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (dig420 @ May 22 2004, 10:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Torone@May 22 2004, 04:09 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Mike AI@May 22 2004, 08:14 AM
Do you have a link? Or do we take your word on it?
I wouldn't. Interpol said that his fingerprints were found in Spain on a bag containing bomb supplies tied to the Madrid bombing. It turned out to be wrong; but at least they didn't murder his wife and kid ala Ruby Ridge...
If you're so concerned about the black helicopters coming to take out the rest of you survivalists now that they've mopped up Ruby Ridge, why are you voting for the party that is working so hard to further restrict your individual liberties via the Patriot Act?[/b][/quote]
Why don't you and Pd go f**k each other? If either of you had a brain, you'd take it out and play marbles with it. :moon:

Show me where your rights have been restricted like at Ruby Ridge or Waco by this administration. The Padilla guy should never have been taken alive because he was definitely Al Qaeda and was definitely working toward setting off a radiological bomb here. The Oregon guy was not hurt; and he was arrested on what I would consider extremely important evidence. If you got a bitch about that take it up with Spain. Otherwise, accept my first suggestion.

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by JR+May 23 2004, 02:37 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JR @ May 23 2004, 02:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--PornoDoggy@May 22 2004, 10:48 PM
JR ... what's to discuss? There are bad guys in Oregon.

I don't think that means that everyone in Oregon is a bad guy.

I don't think that even means that every Muslim in Oregon is a bad guy.
there is nothing to discuss. i was just trying to be annoying.




there has not been any terrorist attacks since 9/11 on US soil. many cells have been broken up. many people arrested. lots of funds frozen and people brought to justice all over the globe.

what is the count now in all the "taking away your rights rhetoric" in the count of terrorists busted vs. "innocent' being wrongly treated or accused? something like several thousand to 2 (Padilla and this guy).

yawn.

you can't make an omlett without breaking any eggs.




i am going to go cower in the corner now expecting the government to kick in my door at any second and take me a away for no reason and detain me without cause or explanation while while chanting "meni is right... meni is right" until the next election.


NOT![/b][/quote]
Is there a German equivelant to "need to breaka few eggs to make an omelette"
I wonder if Hitler used that expression when rounding up Jews.

[Meni]

why do I always hear fiddles around oprano?
yeeeha

[dig420]

Originally posted by Torone+May 23 2004, 11:31 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Torone @ May 23 2004, 11:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -dig420@May 22 2004, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by -Torone@May 22 2004, 04:09 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Mike AI@May 22 2004, 08:14 AM
Do you have a link? Or do we take your word on it?
I wouldn't. Interpol said that his fingerprints were found in Spain on a bag containing bomb supplies tied to the Madrid bombing. It turned out to be wrong; but at least they didn't murder his wife and kid ala Ruby Ridge...
If you're so concerned about the black helicopters coming to take out the rest of you survivalists now that they've mopped up Ruby Ridge, why are you voting for the party that is working so hard to further restrict your individual liberties via the Patriot Act?
Why don't you and Pd go f**k each other? If either of you had a brain, you'd take it out and play marbles with it. :moon:

Show me where your rights have been restricted like at Ruby Ridge or Waco by this administration. The Padilla guy should never have been taken alive because he was definitely Al Qaeda and was definitely working toward setting off a radiological bomb here. The Oregon guy was not hurt; and he was arrested on what I would consider extremely important evidence. If you got a bitch about that take it up with Spain. Otherwise, accept my first suggestion.[/b][/quote]
if my government wants the power to scoop up private citizens and hold them indefinitely with no right to an attorney, no habeas corpus, no notification of ANYBODY I think it would be more effective to take it up with my government than with Spain, don't you?

And you're right, I have yet to be burnt out of my compound and I remain unshot, so I guess my rights haven't been violated like those at Ruby Ridge. I think I'd like to keep it that way, so I won't be voting for the people looking to expand the governments power to apprehend me without explanation, which is your buddies in the right wing.

You're a pornographer and you want to see me and PD fuck each other? You haven't found any content that turns you on more than that scene would?

Fag :inlove:

[dig420]

Originally posted by Torone+May 23 2004, 11:31 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Torone @ May 23 2004, 11:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -dig420@May 22 2004, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by -Torone@May 22 2004, 04:09 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Mike AI@May 22 2004, 08:14 AM
Do you have a link? Or do we take your word on it?
I wouldn't. Interpol said that his fingerprints were found in Spain on a bag containing bomb supplies tied to the Madrid bombing. It turned out to be wrong; but at least they didn't murder his wife and kid ala Ruby Ridge...
If you're so concerned about the black helicopters coming to take out the rest of you survivalists now that they've mopped up Ruby Ridge, why are you voting for the party that is working so hard to further restrict your individual liberties via the Patriot Act?
Why don't you and Pd go f**k each other? If either of you had a brain, you'd take it out and play marbles with it. :moon:

Show me where your rights have been restricted like at Ruby Ridge or Waco by this administration. The Padilla guy should never have been taken alive because he was definitely Al Qaeda and was definitely working toward setting off a radiological bomb here. The Oregon guy was not hurt; and he was arrested on what I would consider extremely important evidence. If you got a bitch about that take it up with Spain. Otherwise, accept my first suggestion.[/b][/quote]
and just in case nobody's ever told you this before:

You come off a lot more like Timothy McVeigh than Patrick Henry.

[JR]

Originally posted by dig420@May 22 2004, 11:51 PM
yeah that'll be cool until you're the egg. When they're doing it to us the anti-porn people will be saying the same thing you're saying now.

The omelette thing really isn't much of a defense.


It's not a defense to you because you are hanging on to the idea that because there "might" be exceptions which are so small they would be statistically immeasurable to make the case that EVERYTHING being done to combat terror is wrong. Moreover, i would venture guess that you did not find these "loss of rights and freedoms" when Clinton was proposing the exact same things as are in the Patriot Act after the embassy/WTC bombings.

are the odds greater of me getting hit by lightning.... dying in a car wreck.... getting cancer... or being wrongfully detained etc etc yada yada yada.....? how many times greater are your chance of getting killed in a terrorist attack than being wrongfully arrested and detained? hmmm... lets see... around 4,000 deaths in terrorist attacks on US citizens in the last 15 years and how many "victems of the patriot act"? .... so far, the chance of me being killed by terrorists is probably many thousand times greater than me being a victem of what you percieve to be some sort of Nazi-like stripping of personal freedoms.

i think i am more safe.
you feel you are more threatened.

it has nothing to do for me with political orientation or partisan politics. i think Bush is an idiot. but i also believe firmly that history proves again and again that you cannot completely protect the rights of the innocent without protecting the guilty. bad people are out there trying to do bad things. thats just a fact.

its just a question of personal comfort levels i guess.



Last edited by JR at May 23 2004, 01:05 PM

[dig420]

Basically your argument is that we should give the govt. all the power it asks for and trust them not to abuse it.

Can't really think of any way to respond to that...

[Boneprone]

Yeah its a true story Joe is saying here...

And yeah its pretty disturbing to say the least.. Its been big news here in Portland.