Were you someone else before you were you?

[PBucksLauren]

Never been to a Psychic but heard from someone who has that there are old souls and new souls. Old souls have occupied many bodies throughout the years and new souls are just the opposite. Weird huh! What do you think?

:zoinks:

[Mike AI]

I was Serge!

[XXXPhoto]

Ever notice that they never tell you about the past life when you were Bubba the broke assed sharecropper, Mafu-fu the wide hipped slave that got to see all her children sold, Thinks-Like-Rock the hapless Indian run over by buffalo while looking wrong direction, or Ahmed the street urchin that starved when daddy was drafted to build the pyramids?

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Mike AI@May 18 2004, 02:52 PM
I was Serge!
I was slave in Egypt building Pyramids 'till the bearded guy came called Moishe and took us all into desert
;-)))

[VooMan]

I must say you make a good point there XXXPhoto. That is kinda funny.

I've always looked at life along those lines though. I kind of think of it like school. You either learn or you get left back...

There are some times when I question the existence of *God* and having a soul, but then I think about the vastness of the universe and think "how could there not be something more beyond what we know?"

So I guess I'm confused...

[sarettah]

I was Abraham Lincoln, Attilla the Hun, Hirohito, The Pope, A Wino, A Crack Head, The fourth president, The tenth Vice President, Rony Le_y, The Godfather, Harriett Tubman, Martha Washington, A caveman, A washer woman, Henry Ford, Thomas Edison, Ulysses Grant and Phil Sheridan......

And that was all before lunch today.................. :yowsa:


When I die, I'm coming back as a rock !!! :okthumb:

[Vick]

Regrettably (and predictably) I've seen no evidence that humans or any other creature inhabiting this planet have a "soul"

[sarettah]

Originally posted by Vick@May 18 2004, 03:48 PM
Regrettably (and predictably) I've seen no evidence that humans or any other creature inhabiting this planet have a "soul"
Aretha's got soul............... :yowsa:

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Vick@May 18 2004, 03:48 PM
Regrettably (and predictably) I've seen no evidence that humans or any other creature inhabiting this planet have a "soul"
there is an only way to find if any particular human being has a soul...
ask for a loan
;-))))

[Vick]

Originally posted by sarettah+May 18 2004, 03:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (sarettah @ May 18 2004, 03:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Vick@May 18 2004, 03:48 PM
Regrettably (and predictably) I've seen no evidence that humans or any other creature inhabiting this planet have a "soul"
Aretha's got soul............... :yowsa:[/b][/quote]
Very good point

Add Otis Redding and James Brown

:okthumb:

[sarettah]

I got da filet of sole...
da sole of my shoe...
da cirque de sole...

all gods chillun got sole.........

[Vick]

Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+May 18 2004, 03:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ May 18 2004, 03:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Vick@May 18 2004, 03:48 PM
Regrettably (and predictably) I've seen no evidence that humans or any other creature inhabiting this planet have a "soul"
there is an only way to find if any particular human being has a soul...
ask for a loan
;-))))[/b][/quote]
Guess mortgage companies and car companies don't count as humans :lol:


Edit - now when I think about it mortgage companies and car companies ask if they can lend me $



Last edited by Vick at May 18 2004, 05:16 PM

[sarettah]

before I got married, I was a sole man................. :yowsa:

[Rolo]

We are all recycled humans - the atoms and molecules in your body will go thru nature and be reused... some of what you are made off may have been part of a cow, a little spider, a tree, a roman gladiator, a french politician etc. - and when you die, and your body either rot or burn, then some of your atoms might end up in some other humans - ex. in socialists, republicans etc.

Actual most of your body recycles every 7-10 years, so who knows where "you" will be in 10 years time, and where your new body have been before... :unsure:

Now thinking we got a soul, which stays with us no matter what changes is done to our bodies, and which we take with us when we die is kinda of a interesting theory, but just like humans killed God, because we had no use for him, then I think there is a slime chance that we once in the future will be reading "Soul is dead" by a person who consists of parts of Nietzche´s atoms... :rolleyes:

[XXXPhoto]

Originally posted by Vick@May 18 2004, 12:48 PM
Regrettably (and predictably) I've seen no evidence that humans or any other creature inhabiting this planet have a "soul"
So go watch 21 Grams... It must be true, Hollywood says so!

[Red]

I look at it this way

We know that the human body is full of energy, both chemical and electrical.
The first law of thermodynamics is that energy can neither be created or destroyed.
So when the human body dies, the energy has lost it's housing. It has to go somewhere else. That's plain scientific fact.

Also,
There have been countless testimonials by people who have had someone die in their arms stating that they felt something leave the body. That they could no longer feel the essence of what was that person. Call it an energy force, life force or soul, something leaves us when we die.

I've had 3 extrordinary incidents happen to me (all while hallucinagenic-drug free, I might add) that lead me to believe in old souls. I won't go into it, but it was enough evidence to prove the case to me.

[Vick]

Originally posted by XXXPhoto+May 18 2004, 04:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (XXXPhoto @ May 18 2004, 04:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Vick@May 18 2004, 12:48 PM
Regrettably (and predictably) I've seen no evidence that humans or any other creature inhabiting this planet have a "soul"
So go watch 21 Grams... It must be true, Hollywood says so![/b][/quote]
Hmmm heard of it but never have watched it

guess it will go on the list

[Vick]

Originally posted by Red@May 18 2004, 05:09 PM
We know that the human body is full of energy, both chemical and electrical.
The first law of thermodynamics is that energy can neither be created or destroyed.

Hmmm not exactly

http://www.cchem.berkeley.edu/~chem130a/sa...e/firstlaw.html (http://www.cchem.berkeley.edu/~chem130a/sauer/outline/firstlaw.html)

However, the total energy of the system plus the surroundings is constant. That's the First Law of Thermodynamics. The First Law is also stated as energy is conserved.

How do we know this? This is an empirical law, which means that we know that energy is conserved because of many repeated experiments by scientists. It's been observed that you can't get any more energy out of a system than you put into it . James Prescott Joule did a famous experiment which demonstrated the conservation of energy and showed that heat and work were both of the same nature: energy. His system of interest was water in a thermally insulated container. In this container was also a paddle which was connected to the outside world (surroundings) and connected to weights on a string. Joule measured the work done by the paddle wheel and he also measured the heat created by the wheel turning in the water. Significantly, Joule found that the amount of energy done as work was converted exactly to heat. Energy was changed from one form to another (work to heat); however, no net change of energy in the system plus the surroundings occured. Energy is conserved.


I'd love to see verifiable proof
Sorry I lost my faith (if I had any) a long time ago
Even thing is unreliable second and third hand stories

[XXXPhoto]

Originally posted by Vick@May 18 2004, 02:22 PM
...I'd love to see verifiable proof ... Even thing is unreliable second and third hand stories.

That doesn't stop the Newbies from building sites, pissing contests in the sand or stock market swings... Unreliable second and third (and 4th, 5th...) hand stories make the world go round... Trace any proof back to origin, it's based on assumption.

[VooMan]

I find it interesting that in one year, every single cell in your body has changed. Every single cell... not one bit of you is the same as it was a year ago... But yet we keep our memories, personalities, even the scars from old wounds.

Atoms that are billiions of years old make up our new cells... And at the same time, we get older and are not quite what we used to be...

[Vick]

Cue the Theme from the Lion King


In the circle of life

Some of us fall by the wayside
And some of us soar to the stars
And some of us sail through our troubles
And some have to live with the scars




Last edited by Vick at May 18 2004, 06:53 PM

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Vick+May 18 2004, 06:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vick @ May 18 2004, 06:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -XXXPhoto@May 18 2004, 04:35 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--Vick@May 18 2004, 12:48 PM
Regrettably (and predictably) I've seen no evidence that humans or any other creature inhabiting this planet have a "soul"
So go watch 21 Grams... It must be true, Hollywood says so!
Hmmm heard of it but never have watched it

guess it will go on the list[/b][/quote]
I enjoyed it. It's different :)

[cj]

Originally posted by XXXPhoto@May 18 2004, 03:34 PM
Ever notice that they never tell you about the past life when you were Bubba the broke assed sharecropper, Mafu-fu the wide hipped slave that got to see all her children sold, Thinks-Like-Rock the hapless Indian run over by buffalo while looking wrong direction, or Ahmed the street urchin that starved when daddy was drafted to build the pyramids?
They do tell you these things - just not in the 'made for book & tv' versions!

I think everyone was a combination of other things - like Rolo said, energy just keeps being recycled. I've really enjoyed yoga for this reason - it teaches you awareness of prana (life force/breath/energy) and how it moves within ourselves and between each other.

Everything happens because of prana :okthumb:

[sarettah]

"we have all been here before, we have all been here before"

This whole thread sounds like a great introduction to a discussion on unified field theory....

(that's your cue Colin.... :okthumb: )

[sarettah]

Originally posted by cj@May 18 2004, 07:51 PM
Everything happens because of prana :okthumb:
prananoia big destroyer........................... :yowsa:

Just cause I'm prananoid doesn't men that they weren't all out to get me.... :unsure:

[VooMan]

Originally posted by cj@May 18 2004, 07:51 PM

Everything happens because of prana :okthumb:

Yep... prana. I am also in search of my dharma, but it still eludes me. :(















(and no... I don't mean Dharma & Greg)

[Vick]

Originally posted by sarettah@May 18 2004, 08:41 PM
"we have all been here before, we have all been here before"

With another time around the wheel I would probably know just how to deal ...

...with all of you

Second time in a week I've referred to Deja Vue :rolleyes:


"Everything happens because of prana"
Damn I was hoping that everything happened because of Prawn
all in all... I'd rather have the big shrimp

[Almighty Colin]

Regarding electrical and chemical energy and the first law of thermodynamics. I don’t think you’re going to find support for souls in physics. That would be extremely interesting and most physicists would give their entire career to prove such a thing.

Electrical energy is measured because there are electrons around. Chemical energy is measured when bonds between atoms are broken. In the body, the creation and splitting of the chemical ATP creates energy that your muscles then use for you to get around. There are also all sorts of other chemical reactions happening in your body. You have electrical currents in your nervous system from electrons moving around. You can measure this activity. An EKG, for example, measures the electrical activity of the heart.

When you die, your body stops producing ATP and the nervous system stops working because the machine is broken. Machines need energy. Your body needs oxygen to make ATP, for example. You stop taking in energy because you are no longer breathing and eating. Some of the immediate energy in the body gets radiated as another form of energy – heat.

There was an experiment performed just about 100 years ago that lead to this “21 grams” business. It is discredited now as being very poorly performed. If anyone ever shows that the body loses mass or energy and it can’t be measured as heat loss or some of other form of energy they will win a nobel prize for proving that the conservation of energy is not true.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by cj@May 18 2004, 07:51 PM
Everything happens because of prana :okthumb:
I learned a new vocab word today. :-)

[ocho-ocho]

Originally posted by Vick@May 18 2004, 12:48 PM
Regrettably (and predictably) I've seen no evidence that humans or any other creature inhabiting this planet have a "soul"

i disagree...we have souls...PERIOD
:bdance:

[HoneyBlond]

I believe in "Old Souls",
a child that seems wise beyond their years or copes with adversity
better than an adult is perhaps one example.

:)

[JoesHO]

I think I was Jeff spicolie, or maybe Timothy leary...

[Vick]

Originally posted by ocho-ocho+May 19 2004, 06:33 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ocho-ocho @ May 19 2004, 06:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Vick@May 18 2004, 12:48 PM
Regrettably (and predictably) I've seen no evidence that humans or any other creature inhabiting this planet have a "soul"

i disagree...we have souls...PERIOD
:bdance:[/b][/quote]
Proof Please

You can disagree until you're blue in the face but I've never seen, felt, smelt or fucked proof of souls or god

and I've looked

[JoesHO]

Originally posted by Vick+May 19 2004, 06:49 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vick @ May 19 2004, 06:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -ocho-ocho@May 19 2004, 06:33 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Vick@May 18 2004, 12:48 PM
Regrettably (and predictably) I've seen no evidence that humans or any other creature inhabiting this planet have a "soul"

i disagree...we have souls...PERIOD
:bdance:
Proof Please

You can disagree until you're blue in the face but I've never seen, felt, smelt or fucked proof of souls or god

and I've looked[/b][/quote]
so would you classify, the bible, and all of it's acounts, as fiction?

or just a lack of understanding in technology, as a method of the unexplained?


what are emotions based on, if not something to do with an inner soul? is it all chemistry, this miracle known as the human body?

[Vick]

Originally posted by JoesHO1+May 19 2004, 09:58 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JoesHO1 @ May 19 2004, 09:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Vick@May 19 2004, 06:49 AM
Originally posted by -ocho-ocho@May 19 2004, 06:33 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Vick@May 18 2004, 12:48 PM
Regrettably (and predictably) I've seen no evidence that humans or any other creature inhabiting this planet have a "soul"

i disagree...we have souls...PERIOD
:bdance:
Proof Please

You can disagree until you're blue in the face but I've never seen, felt, smelt or fucked proof of souls or god

and I've looked
so would you classify, the bible, and all of it's acounts, as fiction?

or just a lack of understanding in technology, as a method of the unexplained?


what are emotions based on, if not something to do with an inner soul? is it all chemistry, this miracle known as the human body?[/b][/quote]
Superstition

Just like mythology

[JoesHO]

Originally posted by Vick+May 19 2004, 07:00 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vick @ May 19 2004, 07:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -JoesHO1@May 19 2004, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by -Vick@May 19 2004, 06:49 AM
Originally posted by -ocho-ocho@May 19 2004, 06:33 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Vick@May 18 2004, 12:48 PM
Regrettably (and predictably) I've seen no evidence that humans or any other creature inhabiting this planet have a "soul"

i disagree...we have souls...PERIOD
:bdance:
Proof Please

You can disagree until you're blue in the face but I've never seen, felt, smelt or fucked proof of souls or god

and I've looked
so would you classify, the bible, and all of it's acounts, as fiction?

or just a lack of understanding in technology, as a method of the unexplained?


what are emotions based on, if not something to do with an inner soul? is it all chemistry, this miracle known as the human body?
Superstition

Just like mythology[/b][/quote]
how can one explain the architectual evidence then of these myths?

[Vick]

Overall concept of God is Superstition

Not the actual things that may have happened - and it's been recorded by men so any facts most likely have been distorted

Sorry don't have time for the details now but will get back to it

Remember it is amusing in a ironic when you speak of god and oppose a right wing religious president he he he

and I know the differences just wanted to point it out

p.s. FUCK YOUR GODS AND FUCK YOUR POLITICIANS

Luv,
Vick

[JoesHO]

Originally posted by Vick@May 19 2004, 07:10 AM
Overall concept of God is Superstition

Not the actual things that may have happened - and it's been recorded by men so any facts most likely have been distorted

Sorry don't have time for the details now but will get back to it

Remember it is amusing in a ironic when you speak of god and oppose a right wing religious president he he he

and I know the differences just wanted to point it out

p.s. FUCK YOUR GODS AND FUCK YOUR POLITICIANS

Luv,
Vick
I am only speaking in Theory when I speak of GOD, as I unfortunatly, have not met him yet either.

However, I do know what the president is all about, and like you said " that scares the hell out of me", for all american generations to follow, if he is left to destroy this great nation further!)

I agree though however, that with less than half of the eligible population voting, that our system is not much better than a monarchy, or dictatorship. so fuck the politicians, is my view too.

I long for the day when the two sides will admit their true agendas, and seek to garner support for advancing that agenda, rather than looking to appease all (that will never happen) so majority should rule, and the minority should be afforded every chance to opposse said majority with any legal means necassary (violence of course is not an acceptable method,)

[PBucksLauren]

Originally posted by HoneyBlond@May 19 2004, 05:53 AM
I believe in "Old Souls",
a child that seems wise beyond their years or copes with adversity
better than an adult is perhaps one example.

:)
Good point HoneyBlonde. Sometimes it seems like some people are so lost in life and unexperienced when others come into life knowing what they want to do and what they have to do. I love topics like this where there is no proof and its entirely based on your beliefs.


:rolleyes:

[Peaches]

I believe in souls, but I don't believe they're recycled. :)

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by JoesHO1@May 19 2004, 10:03 AM

how can one explain the architectual evidence then of these myths?
Many myths are based upon factual places and events. Intentionally so.

Troy may have been a real city but do you believe there were gods like Poseidon and Zeus who were being mischievous messing around with the puny humans?

[Jesse_DD]

I am selling my soul if anyone wants it - I have a very naughty sole capable of doing very mischievous things. If this type of soul interests you please email me and we can discuss a price.

[JoesHO]

Originally posted by Colin+May 19 2004, 07:34 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Colin @ May 19 2004, 07:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--JoesHO1@May 19 2004, 10:03 AM

how can one explain the architectual evidence then of these myths?
Many myths are based upon factual places and events. Intentionally so.

Troy may have been a real city but do you believe there were gods like Poseidon and Zeus who were being mischievous messing around with the puny humans?[/b][/quote]
good point, and NO I do not personally believe that account, However I am very reluctant to discount any possibility until it is proven with facts to be false, just as weell as I am reluctant to believe those same accounts, until they are proven with verifyable facts.

I would place those in the unexplained category, and would look to understand them farther before stating anyting other than my opinions , based on what I can deduce from the information that is provided.

sometimes, other peoples opinonions, and inuendo are all we have to conclude the events of history. Now of course with pictures, recording devices and advances in technology. We are able to start to go back and prove or disprove some of these accounts.

But I sure would not want to be wrong and have something like soddom and ghamora take place again because I refused to at least try to examine the evidence with an open mind.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by JoesHO1@May 19 2004, 12:06 PM
I do not personally believe that account
Why not? Why is it any different than the Koran or Old Testament?

[JoesHO]

Originally posted by Colin+May 19 2004, 09:34 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Colin @ May 19 2004, 09:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--JoesHO1@May 19 2004, 12:06 PM
I do not personally believe that account
Why not? Why is it any different than the Koran or Old Testament?[/b][/quote]
To much magic involved, but hey maybe they had better pot than me!
or the mushrooms back in the day, were very potent!

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by JoesHO1+May 19 2004, 12:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JoesHO1 @ May 19 2004, 12:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Colin@May 19 2004, 09:34 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--JoesHO1@May 19 2004, 12:06 PM
I do not personally believe that account
Why not? Why is it any different than the Koran or Old Testament?
To much magic involved, but hey maybe they had better pot than me!
or the mushrooms back in the day, were very potent![/b][/quote]
How about walking on water, muliplying loaves of bread, raising people from the dead, parting the Red Sea, and living inside the belly of a big fish for three days?

[Rolo]

Why not just accept that we are made of physical things, and those things mixed into the cocktail we call the human body gives us awareness... do we confuse awareness with souls? if, so are we not aware that all living organism need a level or multiple levels of awareness too function - ex. plants, germs, animals etc. would all have souls too...

Or are souls only for humans, and then why do humans need souls? is it because we need to feel special in the big infinite univers? Out off all the possible answers in the physical univers we have choosen something which is divine - but we do not belive in god(s)? And if souls are not divine, but physical, then where are they?

[aeon]

Originally posted by PBucksLauren+May 19 2004, 07:23 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PBucksLauren @ May 19 2004, 07:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--HoneyBlond@May 19 2004, 05:53 AM
I believe in "Old Souls",
a child that seems wise beyond their years or copes with adversity
better than an adult is perhaps one example.

:)
Good point HoneyBlonde. Sometimes it seems like some people are so lost in life and unexperienced when others come into life knowing what they want to do and what they have to do. I love topics like this where there is no proof and its entirely based on your beliefs.


:rolleyes:[/b][/quote]
I'm starting to "believe" eugenics needs to be re-evaluated from an environmental perspective.

I went to a renaissance fair once. A sign outside one of the tents had a hand and $5 by it...I told the lady 5 bucks was a great deal for a handjob...shame she didn't make it clear she was a palm reader.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Rolo@May 19 2004, 03:00 PM
Out off all the possible answers in the physical univers we have choosen something which is divine
We?

[cj]

Originally posted by Vick+May 19 2004, 09:49 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vick @ May 19 2004, 09:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -ocho-ocho@May 19 2004, 06:33 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Vick@May 18 2004, 12:48 PM
Regrettably (and predictably) I've seen no evidence that humans or any other creature inhabiting this planet have a "soul"

i disagree...we have souls...PERIOD
:bdance:
Proof Please

You can disagree until you're blue in the face but I've never seen, felt, smelt or fucked proof of souls or god

and I've looked[/b][/quote]
close your eyes and breath deeply into your belly for a few breaths ... feel that tingling feeling of energy running through your veins?

IMO that's your soul ... misinterpreted over time into religious meanings, the soul in its pure form is the flow of prana through the body - that which gives life.

[Rolo]

Originally posted by Colin@May 19 2004, 02:20 PM
We?
Maybe I did a few too many "we" in that post ;-) - but I do think that its more common to belive in souls, than not too... heck, at times I find myself thinking of lost ones - knowing that their "souls" are only living in my mind, but it still feels good thinking they are there.... and maybe that is the ultimate reason why humans and their big curious brains belive in souls - it makes life easier to live - giving it a purpose/meaning to continue, when traumatic events happens - brains own therapy...

[cj]

Originally posted by VooMan+May 18 2004, 08:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (VooMan @ May 18 2004, 08:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--cj@May 18 2004, 07:51 PM

Everything happens because of prana :okthumb:

Yep... prana. I am also in search of my dharma, but it still eludes me. :(















(and no... I don't mean Dharma & Greg)[/b][/quote]
Vooman, I have found it really difficult to get past the current stage of study because I find that while buddhism is a religion that makes the most sense, its still filled with interpretations made by humans with imperfections. My motivation to study further waned when we go to the 'eating dead soles' bit (vegetarianism).

For your practice to be recognised officially you must follow 'rules' - dont eat anything that was in fear when it was killed to avoid the transfer of bad energy. With the list of foods I already can't eat due to my digestive problems, there was no way I was going to remove animal products as well - i'd be down to beans and vegetables on my good list!

Humans ruin everything with rules & requirements, the total opposite of enlightenment which buddhism is meant to be seeking. Of the 8 yama's and niyamas, 4 of them make it virtually impossible to live in the real world ... (like Aparigraha - non accumulation of possessions!)

How do you balance the bits you feel in yourself to be true with the bits that just don't make sense or feel right or that just don't work for you?

[VooMan]

CJ, I am happy to say that you and I seem to think along similar lines... B)

In recent years I have begun to read about various people and religions. I certainly don't claim to be an expert at anything, but so far in my travels I have found hinduism to be something that makes me say: "yep, that's how I feel..." I agree with you though, that humans and their interpretations tend to screw things up. That's one of the reasons I no longer consider myself to be a Catholic. Too many bizarre rules and regulations, and more loopholes than the IRS tax code. LOL

Something I read about Native Americans that I found fascinating was their respect for all living things. Before they would cut down a tree, they would ask it's permission. Sure that sounds crazy to most people these days, but I admire that. If they felt it was okay to cut down the tree they would thank it for the warmth it gave them (from the fire), and of course they would sprinkle the ashes on the ground to nourish the other plants and pray that the tree would become something more than it had been when it was a tree. The same goes for the meat they ate. When they went on a hunt they would thank the animals for the nourishment they provided, and they used every last bit of the animal for something useful. To do less would have been disrespectful. I admire their perspective...

Maybe this is a copout, but I try to get what I can from everything I read. I take the things that I feel apply to me and I discard what doesn't feel right. I don't think there's anything wrong with material posessions, but then again I would never sacrifice my principles in order to have them. If given the choice to screw people over and become a millionaire or be true to myself and live an average lifestyle, I'll take the average lifestyle. It's just the way I am... (and the example I follow from my father).

My father is one of the people I admire most in my life. He was a doctor for all the right reasons. He wanted to help people. He was an absolutely brilliant surgeon, but he only operated when there was no other option. He had a great bedside manner and told half his patients to "get outta here" and not pay him. He was true to himself for his entire career and never gave in to the trappings his colleagues strived for. While they all drove Mercedes Benz, etc... and were in debt up to their eyeballs, my father drove a Plymouth Duster and spent time with his family. He could have made lots more money, but to him spending time with his wife and kids was more important than anything else. He was never really accepted by his colleagues, and when he died only one doctor came to pay his respects; his doctor... I was most proud to see however, that the funeral home was packed to the rafters with patients. Word spread fast about his passing, and I heard story after story about what a wonderful man my father was, and what wonderful care he took of this person and that person...

I try to model my life after him. :okthumb:

Wow, this was a pretty long winded post for me, and I don't normally talk about these kinds of things so openly. Most people would think (or now officially know) that I am an oddball. :awinky: I try to balance the bits I feel to be true with the bits that don't make sense by living my life according to my own code of beliefs, and by following what feels right to me in my heart. I don't live according to one specific philosophy, I just live according to the gospel of Voo. :)

[cj]

>that the funeral home was packed to the rafters with patients

:wnw: BEAUTIFUL STORY!

I would love to chat more with you in person - we've probably been reading a lot of the same things ;-)

I started yoga when I got sick, and the more I studied the more things seemed to make sense. The things that had confused or annoyed me all my life made more sense ... like religion, i have always rejected all forms of religion because they sound so rediculous. I never could understand basing your entire life on a 2000 year old book, while missing the point behind it.

But the more I read and learn, the more I realize that all religions have their '12 commandments' ... which in summary all basically say 'dont do bad things to other living things'. All western religions believe in some kind of enlightenment in death, but eastern beliefs revolve more around finding that enlightenment in your life rather than waiting till death.

You only need to have successfully meditated a few times, and all of a sudden the entire bible is clear ... 'eternal life' is just recognising (in life, while you are alive) that your energy will never 'die', it will return to the earth to make other life.

Have you read 'the power of now' by eckhart tolle? I strongly recommend it if you haven't read it already. It offers some really simple principals which my philosophical mind really enjoyed - lots of references to 'god', the maker of all things. But in this case, god is the maker of life - and life is energy - therefore God is the sun, oxygen etc ...

Welcome to the new Oprano philosophical corner LOL

[Peaches]

Originally posted by VooMan@May 19 2004, 09:45 PM
I don't live according to one specific philosophy, I just live according to the gospel of Voo. :)
And that is why organized religions are, IMHO, cults. There is no room for free thinking. You must believe what you're TOLD to believe or you're going to spend eternity somewhere terrible :(

I still remember going with my mother to her Baptist church and watching them all highlight their Bibles. Apparently SOME words of God are more important than others. :P Not to mention, some things, i.e. men not sleeping with men, should be taken literally, but Jesus turning water into wine? That was just done because water wasn't drinkable back then....drinking wine is wrong now. I'll never forget the look on her face when my ex-husband asked her why Jesus didn't just turn the bad water into good water. :awinky:

[Vick]

Originally posted by Peaches@May 19 2004, 09:56 PM
I'll never forget the look on her face when my ex-husband asked her why Jesus didn't just turn the bad water into good water. :awinky:
That is an absolute classic :okthumb: :lol:

[VooMan]

Originally posted by cj@May 19 2004, 09:46 PM
You only need to have successfully meditated a few times, and all of a sudden the entire bible is clear ... 'eternal life' is just recognising (in life, while you are alive) that your energy will never 'die', it will return to the earth to make other life.
That is absolutely true... I haven't meditated for a while, but when I was consistent I got to know exactly what you mean. :okthumb:

Have you read 'the power of now' by eckhart tolle? I strongly recommend it if you haven't read it already. It offers some really simple principals which my philosophical mind really enjoyed - lots of references to 'god', the maker of all things. But in this case, god is the maker of life - and life is energy - therefore God is the sun, oxygen etc ...

I haven't, but now it's on my list. A good excuse for a trip to Barnes & Noble this weekend. Thanks for the tip. :)

I'll never forget the look on her face when my ex-husband asked her why Jesus didn't just turn the bad water into good water.

HAHAHA That's hilarious! :D

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Vick+May 19 2004, 11:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vick @ May 19 2004, 11:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Peaches@May 19 2004, 09:56 PM
I'll never forget the look on her face when my ex-husband asked her why Jesus didn't just turn the bad water into good water. :awinky:
That is an absolute classic :okthumb: :lol:[/b][/quote]
Many people think my son inherited all his "smart ass" from me - trust me, I'm an amateur compared to his dad. B)

[cj]

Peaches, I was the kid at Sunday School who used to ask those kind of questions over and over and the teacher would pat me on the head and give me some stupid answer about how we don't have to understand god's way ... she eventually stopped asking me what my question was :biglaugh:

>Many people think my son inherited all his "smart ass" from me - trust me, I'm an amateur compared to his dad

I think CT got a double dose then :biglaugh:

Vooman, lmk what you think of the book - i'm making everyone around me read it because everyone interprets it differently and I love hearing how each mind differs. :okthumb:

[VooMan]

Will do CJ... Just sent myself an email with the title and author. :)

[Peaches]

Originally posted by cj@May 19 2004, 11:12 PM
Peaches, I was the kid at Sunday School who used to ask those kind of questions over and over and the teacher would pat me on the head and give me some stupid answer about how we don't have to understand god's way ... she eventually stopped asking me what my question was :biglaugh:
The lack of dinosaurs in the Bible must have been one of your questions. It was one of mine. :)

I've had that book on my list since you mentioned it last time, I've just been lazy getting to it as it wasn't at the bookstore when I first looked for it (just looked at my Amazon list - it was added 11/14/2003 :awinky: ) My parents are BIG into "self help" books and I figured they'd have it, but they didn't :( I plan on getting it, reading it, then giving it to them as I've heard a lot of people say good things about it. :)

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by cj@May 19 2004, 09:46 PM
But the more I read and learn, the more I realize that all religions have their '12 commandments' ... which in summary all basically say 'dont do bad things to other living things'.
So you skipped Islam? ;-)

For that matter, some religions have such rules as you say but they only apply to other believers. Moses has 10 Commandments but apparently "Thou shalt not kill" only applies to other Jews. I believe the more correct interpretation would be "though shalt not murder". Leviticus is filled with recommended punishments of death by stoning for such offenses as disobeying your parents or having same-sex relations.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by cj@May 19 2004, 09:46 PM
You only need to have successfully meditated a few times, and all of a sudden the entire bible is clear ... 'eternal life' is just recognising (in life, while you are alive) that your energy will never 'die', it will return to the earth to make other life.
I've never successfully meditated but will such passages as the following become clear if I do?

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them." - Leviticus 20:13

I don't even think there's a mention of an after-life in the Torah.

[cj]

>> will such passages as the following become clear if I do

Yes colin, it becomes clear that its horse shit :biglaugh:

>>For that matter, some religions have such rules as you say but they only apply to other believers.

exactly ... the 'rules' are open to human interpretation, flexible as we need them to be to suit a specific situation. Kinda defeats the purpose of a rule!

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by cj@May 20 2004, 07:52 AM
>> will such passages as the following become clear if I do

Yes colin, it becomes clear that its horse shit :biglaugh:
We agree!

[Almighty Colin]

If I don't believe in souls does that mean that I have a new soul?

According to people who believe such things where does a new soul come from anyway?

[JoesHO]

come to think of it, I do sorta look like churchhill! :awinky:

[AzureSexKitten]

wow~
Just when I thought i was surrounded by perverts, life surfaces!

You think you exist, but who is thinking? If you find who is thinking, you realize it's not the brain, but actually, the "self/I"...otherwise titled, the soul! Isn't it that easy???? No chemical energy just that simple...OHM!

[gonzo]

Originally posted by AzureSexKitten@May 20 2004, 03:25 PM
wow~
Just when I thought i was surrounded by perverts, life surfaces!

You think you exist, but who is thinking? If you find who is thinking, you realize it's not the brain, but actually, the "self/I"...otherwise titled, the soul! Isn't it that easy???? No chemical energy just that simple...OHM!
Perverts think with their sex organs....

How you doin'? hahaha

[Torone]

I am, always have been, and always shall be...

ME! :biglaugh:



Last edited by Torone at May 21 2004, 07:43 AM

[Rolo]

Originally posted by AzureSexKitten@May 20 2004, 12:25 PM
You think you exist, but who is thinking? If you find who is thinking, you realize it's not the brain, but actually, the "self/I"...otherwise titled, the soul! Isn't it that easy???? No chemical energy just that simple...OHM!
The human brain is complex... but sometimes its also defunctions, and make people belive they are other things than "I"... once "I" meet a man in a park, which was convinced he was a bird... he acted, and thought just like a bird - does that mean he has the soul of a bird (do birds have souls?) or can human souls go crazy?

The soul is no more real than God - both can only exist in your brain, and not without your brain. When you die, so does your God and your Soul, however you might have leaved an impression on others, which keep an image of your soul alive in their brains - until they die.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Torone@May 21 2004, 08:42 AM
I am, always have been, and always shall be...

ME! :biglaugh:
Torone,

Where've you been? I missed you.



Last edited by Colin at May 22 2004, 08:08 AM

[Torone]

Originally posted by Colin+May 22 2004, 07:08 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Colin @ May 22 2004, 07:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Torone@May 21 2004, 08:42 AM
I am, always have been, and always shall be...

ME! :biglaugh:
Torone,

Where've you been? I missed you.[/b][/quote]
Fighting...numerous TIA's (if you know what those are, and I figger you do). It's hell getting old in Houston. :wacko:

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Torone+May 22 2004, 08:59 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Torone @ May 22 2004, 08:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Colin@May 22 2004, 07:08 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Torone@May 21 2004, 08:42 AM
I am, always have been, and always shall be...

ME! :biglaugh:
Torone,

Where've you been? I missed you.
Fighting...numerous TIA's (if you know what those are, and I figger you do). It's hell getting old in Houston. :wacko:[/b][/quote]
Total Information Awareness? Poindexter after you? ;-)

[Torone]

Originally posted by Colin+May 22 2004, 08:38 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Colin @ May 22 2004, 08:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by -Torone@May 22 2004, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by -Colin@May 22 2004, 07:08 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Torone@May 21 2004, 08:42 AM
I am, always have been, and always shall be...

ME! :biglaugh:
Torone,

Where've you been? I missed you.
Fighting...numerous TIA's (if you know what those are, and I figger you do). It's hell getting old in Houston. :wacko:
Total Information Awareness? Poindexter after you? ;-)[/b][/quote]
Transient Ischemic Attacks...prestroke condition. BP normal one minute, 250/180 the next. Not very much fun.

I guess it's all that clean living. Probably oughta take up drinking, etc. :biglaugh:

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Torone@May 22 2004, 04:05 PM

Transient Ischemic Attacks...prestroke condition. BP normal one minute, 250/180 the next. Not very much fun.

I guess it's all that clean living. Probably oughta take up drinking, etc. :biglaugh:
Damn :-(

You been in the hospital much? Those go away? Wishing the best for you.

[Torone]

Originally posted by Colin+May 23 2004, 01:59 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Colin @ May 23 2004, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Torone@May 22 2004, 04:05 PM

Transient Ischemic Attacks...prestroke condition. BP normal one minute, 250/180 the next. Not very much fun.

I guess it's all that clean living. Probably oughta take up drinking, etc. :biglaugh:
Damn :-(

You been in the hospital much? Those go away? Wishing the best for you.[/b][/quote]
No. Since Cheetah put a certain dispatcher on my board almost two years ago, my finances are rather limited, so I just settle for office calls. Haven't been able to work my sites that much, so that end has dropped off, also.

However, I have good news...I saved a ton of money on auto insurance by switching to Geico!

Actually, I'm on a new med that seems to help a lot. :)

[Meni]

I was RFK
before that
PT Barnum
before that
a slave
before that
another slave
before that
a slave trader